Holding a gun makes you think others are too, new research shows [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RussP
03-21-2012, 04:09
Wielding a gun increases a personís bias to see guns in the hands of others, new research from the University of Notre Dame shows. (http://newsinfo.nd.edu/news/29684-holding-a-gun-makes-you-think-others-are-too-new-research-shows/)

Gallium
03-21-2012, 05:30
I think the Amadou Diallo shooting already underscored that a dozen years ago.

LoadToadBoss
03-21-2012, 06:21
Does this research indicate that LEOs (who carry guns) are predisposed to "see" a gun in the hands of those they encounter when in fact there was no gun?

Patchman
03-21-2012, 06:24
All wise sayings have at least some grains of truth to them. And the adage "When one only has a hammer, all problems look like nails" has always been pretty much on the mark.

Patchman
03-21-2012, 06:33
Does this research indicate that LEOs (who carry guns) are predisposed to "see" a gun in the hands of those they encounter when in fact there was no gun?

Now this would be an interesting research project. What percent of LE shootings occurred because the LEOs saw a GUN? And of that percentage (number), how many where no gun was found or otherwise explained (ie: BG's friend grabbed gun and escaped, holding an object that looked like a gun)?

Similarly, I would also like to see a study where non-LEOs used their guns after seeing a GUN. (A study that's same as above).

Patchman
03-21-2012, 06:47
They actually paid good money to quantify this behavior? This experiment put their subjects in a situation where the subjects were given a gun (and either was implied or explicitly told) to "expect" something. The subjects are going to think "they gave me a gun. So I expect something (bad) to happen." I'm pretty sure the subjects are not thinking 'OK, I have a gun. So who in these computer photos look like they're going to a birthday party?'

This is like putting totally untrained people into shoot/don't shoot (military, LE, shooting schools, etc...) scenarios. Usually everybody gets shot.

Bren
03-21-2012, 06:53
I suspect the reasearch's conclusion are partly BS. "Expecting a gun" seems a lot more likely than "holding a gun" as the cause, but one probably leads to another, especially among those who don't normally carry guns.

mj9mm
03-21-2012, 07:27
:whistling:for me, i wanted my ccl because i know there are many out there that carry a gun. i had to wait along time for my state to allow me to carry, while all along i knew punks and badguys were already carrying:cool:

4TS&W
03-21-2012, 07:32
That's why ignorant liberals of Chicago are in such bliss... right up until someone sticks a gun in their face, because the opposite is also true, if you don't carry one, (because it is against the law) you think everyone else is also not carrying one.

Even when the weekend death toll is always double digits.

Gallium
03-21-2012, 07:41
Does this research indicate that LEOs (who carry guns) are predisposed to "see" a gun in the hands of those they encounter when in fact there was no gun?


Yes, conclusively. It is proven over and over again in FoF LE training.

dyobvk
03-21-2012, 08:41
I often find myself doing body scans for handgun prints.

Bren
03-21-2012, 09:38
Yes, conclusively. It is proven over and over again in FoF LE training.

What is the source of your information?

Patchman
03-21-2012, 11:15
Yes, conclusively. It is proven over and over again in FoF LE training.


I'm also curious as to source.

Is your statistics only for those FoF scenarios where trainees shot before they had probable cause?

Or for all FoF training as a whole, where most scenarios are designed to force a shooting?

LoadToadBoss
03-21-2012, 12:39
Yes, conclusively. It is proven over and over again in FoF LE training.
Participants in FoF training ARE expecting to see a gun at some point; not because they have a gun in their hand, but because that's the condition of the training. Since they are already predisposed to expect to see a gun at some point, the fact that they do (inaccurately) see one is understandable. The study didn't put people into the condition where they would expect to see a gun, but concluded that just by having one made the subject more like than not to see a gun in another person's hand when there was none. The conclusions seem dubious to me.

Patchman
03-22-2012, 04:54
I have a cousin who CCWs and owns a tailor shop/dry cleaning. The first thing he does, almost unconsciously, when he meets someone is to assess the condition of their clothing. (Are white shirt white? Does suit fit? Are cloths clean? etc...) Tailoring and cleaning clothes is his job and he does it well.

SGT HATRED
03-22-2012, 05:05
And they didn't even use real guns....

"subjects did this while holding either a TOY gun or a neutral object such as a foam ball".

Gallium
03-22-2012, 06:31
What is the source of your information?

I'm also curious as to source.

Is your statistics only for those FoF scenarios where trainees shot before they had probable cause?

Or for all FoF training as a whole, where most scenarios are designed to force a shooting?

N

I was referring to police officers going thru shoot/don't shoot and FoF scenarios for the 1st time; and not to suggest that officers who have been well exposed to shoot/don't shoot and FoF training are as prone to this compared to officers who have never been thru FoF/active shooter/shoot-don't shoot training.

It also happens in training with non LE placed in a (training) scenario where they are armed and expecting to resolve the situation with or without force) seeing guns, or threats where none exist) at high rates...and in many cases, firing shots/using deadly force where it was not warranted.

-G

Bren
03-22-2012, 08:28
N

I was referring to police officers going thru shoot/don't shoot and FoF scenarios for the 1st time; and not to suggest that officers who have been well exposed to shoot/don't shoot and FoF training are as prone to this compared to officers who have never been thru FoF/active shooter/shoot-don't shoot training.

It also happens in training with non LE placed in a (training) scenario where they are armed and expecting to resolve the situation with or without force) seeing guns, or threats where none exist) at high rates...and in many cases, firing shots/using deadly force where it was not warranted.

-G

The question was "how do you know the police do that?"

I think we were both asking because many Glock Talk members post about "what the police do" or police practices that they actually know nothing about - some of it is based on news reports or movies and TV shows, which are far from the truth.

Oramac
03-22-2012, 09:11
A better research question, imo, would be:

Does possessing (not holding) a gun make one more likely to see a gun?

I.e. if the test subject has a holstered firearm (like us CCWers) but is not holding the gun in hand, are they still more likely to see a gun on or being held by others?

ithaca_deerslayer
03-22-2012, 15:07
Spurious.

Being aware makes you more likely to be aware :)