M1 Garand WWB ammo? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TrueGunNut
03-21-2012, 19:12
Waiting on my Springfield M1 from CMP and ordered 300 rounds of Greek m2 ball... BUT! I am already shopping around for more ammo that is faster to get than from the CMP

SGAMMO has Winchester White Box 147 grain fmj that they say is safe for the m1 garand http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/200-round-case-30-06-springfield-winchester-mil-spec-147-grain-fmj-ammo-usa3006

Yall trust that? :dunno: Can't seem to find too much info on the web about the ammo. I know federal has an m1 garand american eagle load... I like Win more, though.

TrueGunNut
03-21-2012, 19:13
Also, going to pick up a GI sling, bandoleers and clips.... anything an M1 newbie should know about ownership?

fnfalman
03-21-2012, 19:14
It looks like standard .30-06 ball ammo to me, so why wouldn't the Garand be able to take the load?

fnfalman
03-21-2012, 19:14
Also, going to pick up a GI sling, bandoleers and clips.... anything an M1 newbie should know about ownership?

Google "Garand Thumb".

faawrenchbndr
03-21-2012, 19:24
From Winchester:


http://media.midwayusa.com/productpage/vendorlogos/2900.jpg

For serious shooters, USA Ammunition is the ideal choice for training,
competition or a long session at the range. The easily identifiable
white box means high quality and reliability at a low price. This ammunition
is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases.

Technical Information Caliber: 30-06 Springfield
Bullet Weight: 147 Grain
Bullet Style: Full Metal Jacket
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
Muzzle Velocity: 3020 fps
Muzzle Energy: 2976 ft. lbs.



Winchester's product guide lists a MV of over 3020 fps for the USA3006 loading.
This is over the M2 ball spec that the Garand was meant to use. If or how closely
the pressure curve and peak pressure of this load matches the M2 spec is impossible
to say from what is published. With that uncertainty I'd pass on its regular use.
Replacing a bent op rod or cracked receiver cost to much for me to want to
test the load in my rifle.


In short,......the Garand was designed around a specific
powder burn rate. Newer production ammunition burns
much slowerer! Using this Winchester ammo can/may damage
your Garand! I'd suggest waiting until you get the proper
ammo, ot get a Schuster's adjustable gas nut.

Leigh
03-21-2012, 19:27
It looks like standard .30-06 ball ammo to me, so why wouldn't the Garand be able to take the load?

M1 GI spec ball ammo was not loaded to the same pressure specs as current-day commercial 30-06.

To be safe, most shooters will install an adjustable gas plug (i.e. Shuster) to save wear & tear on the op rod.

faawrenchbndr
03-21-2012, 19:53
M2 ball ammunition specs:


The M2 Ball cartridge was loaded with a 150-grain flat-base spitzer bullet
to give 2740 30 fps at 78 feet from the muzzle of a 24" barrel

TrueGunNut
03-21-2012, 19:56
Thanks guys. I will just stick with m2 ball. Not interested in adjusting any gas settings.

Still, I"m glad I went with an M1 vs. a springfield M1A IN .308

I was thinking about one or the other...or BOTH. But the M1 Garand's history, as a collector, is just so much better than the m14/m1a IMHO

TrueGunNut
03-21-2012, 19:57
^^ I just hope I'm not chasing spent en-bloc clips! AND brass!

camelotkid
03-21-2012, 20:10
good info here, I am wanting to get in on one of these cmp garands soon

faawrenchbndr
03-21-2012, 20:24
^^ I just hope I'm not chasing spent en-bloc clips! AND brass!


Most CMP ammo comes in clips.

WoodenPlank
03-21-2012, 20:59
It looks like standard .30-06 ball ammo to me, so why wouldn't the Garand be able to take the load?


In short,......the Garand was designed around a specific
powder burn rate. Newer production ammunition burns
much slowerer! Using this Winchester ammo can/may damage
your Garand! I'd suggest waiting until you get the proper
ammo, ot get a Schuster's adjustable gas nut.

M1 GI spec ball ammo was not loaded to the same pressure specs as current-day commercial 30-06.

To be safe, most shooters will install an adjustable gas plug (i.e. Shuster) to save wear & tear on the op rod.

What FAA said. It's not even chamber pressure that's the problem, its the pressure presented to the gas system and op rod that can screw it up. The wrong powder load can present equal max chamber pressure, but too high of a pressure load on the op rod, really screwing things up.

faawrenchbndr
03-21-2012, 21:04
Think of the powder as being a locomotive.
The rest of the train is the Garand's operating rod.

If the Locomotive pushes too fast, the train jumps the track
& no longer stays in a straight line.

WoodenPlank
03-21-2012, 21:05
Think of the powder as being a locomotive.
The rest of the train is the Garand's operating rod.

If the Locomotive pushes too fast, the train jumps the track
& no longer stays in a straight line.

Or, worse, blows up the whole damn train!

faawrenchbndr
03-21-2012, 21:24
Or, worse, blows up the whole damn train!


Boom goes the boiler room!

m2hmghb
03-21-2012, 21:29
Best advice is to contact the manufacturer of the ammo. I know Hornady and Federal both make GI M1 Garand ammo. The other thing to do is to reload and/or get a schuster gas plug that is adjustable. You adjust the amount of gas flow until the weapon functions then give it a turn or two to make sure there is sufficient volume. The only problem is you have to do that when you switch ammo types. The benefit is that the gas that bleeds off means less recoil on you, less energy on theparts and most times better accuracy.

Bob Hafler
03-22-2012, 03:37
If your smart you'll just use ammo designed for the M1 Garand. Ammo designed for M1's is cheaper then op rods.
I've used the federals designed for the M1 Garand with some good results.

sarge83
03-22-2012, 09:50
From Winchester:




Winchester's product guide lists a MV of over 3020 fps for the USA3006 loading.
This is over the M2 ball spec that the Garand was meant to use. If or how closely
the pressure curve and peak pressure of this load matches the M2 spec is impossible
to say from what is published. With that uncertainty I'd pass on its regular use.
Replacing a bent op rod or cracked receiver cost to much for me to want to
test the load in my rifle.


In short,......the Garand was designed around a specific
powder burn rate. Newer production ammunition burns
much slowerer! Using this Winchester ammo can/may damage
your Garand! I'd suggest waiting until you get the proper
ammo, ot get a Schuster's adjustable gas nut.

What he said--get the adjustable gas nut or you will eventually damage your piece.

mgs
03-22-2012, 09:59
Thanks guys. I will just stick with m2 ball. Not interested in adjusting any gas settings.

Still, I"m glad I went with an M1 vs. a springfield M1A IN .308

I was thinking about one or the other...or BOTH. But the M1 Garand's history, as a collector, is just so much better than the m14/m1a IMHO

I have both and each has it's merits. My M1A is more accurate and is scoped with a Springfield mount and uses less powder. If I had to choose one......M1A, Mike.

faawrenchbndr
03-22-2012, 10:47
I've owned both,....sold the M1A.
Mainly because at the time I had a 1903A3 as well.

If I could only have a M1A or a Garand,.......tough call.
Most likely would keep the Garand.

byf43
03-22-2012, 11:04
I've got an M1 Garand, M1A and an AR-15 HBAR.

None of 'em are going anywhere!!!


Don't be too concerned with 'chasing' the en bloc clips.
They land a couple of feet away.
(Or, you could find a leash for 'em, and they'll stay close-by!):supergrin:

Decguns
03-22-2012, 12:19
Manufacturer spec's are from a test barrel. These are typically 26-30 inches long in a rifle caliber and have much tighter tolerances than your standard barrel. Velocities will almost always be higher from their test barrel than your M1.

The Winchester 30-06 FMJ ammo is made specifically for the M1 Garand. I shoot it in my Garands all the time. No problem.

Nutt51
03-22-2012, 14:26
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777146/schuster-dcm-adjustable-gas-plug-with-wrench-m1-garand

faawrenchbndr
03-22-2012, 14:34
Manufacturer spec's are from a test barrel. These are typically 26-30 inches long in a rifle caliber and have much tighter tolerances than your standard barrel. Velocities will almost always be higher from their test barrel than your M1.

The Winchester 30-06 FMJ ammo is made specifically for the M1 Garand. I shoot it in my Garands all the time. No problem.

Use what you like, but do not spread BS info you can not back up!
Kinda funny,......you would think IF Winchester made Garand ammo,
Don't you think they would market it as such! :whistling:





http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/usa/full-metal-jacket/Pages/USA3006.aspx

faawrenchbndr
03-22-2012, 14:36
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/777146/schuster-dcm-adjustable-gas-plug-with-wrench-m1-garand



Yep,......that's the cure! Best $30 worth of insurance a Garand owner can buy!

fnfalman
03-22-2012, 20:56
Riddle me this, if this Winchester ammo isn't made for the Garand then which guns is the ammo being made for? How many bolt gunners will buy a bunch of ball ammo and go to town?

Besides, the adjustable gas nut is cheap and easy to install. Why would anybody not want to install one in their Garand? It's not like surplus ammo is all that easily available.

faawrenchbndr
03-22-2012, 21:03
I gave you the info,........distort it how you like.
Stir that **** pot like you always do........


Show me where Winchester states this ammo is good to go
for the Garand. It's the wrong powder, it's the wrong velocity.

Find it for all to see smart guy, post it for all to view!
Here's your one shot to be in the limelight! :tongueout:

byf43
03-23-2012, 05:45
Riddle me this, if this Winchester ammo isn't made for the Garand then which guns is the ammo being made for? How many bolt gunners will buy a bunch of ball ammo and go to town?

Besides, the adjustable gas nut is cheap and easy to install. Why would anybody not want to install one in their Garand? It's not like surplus ammo is all that easily available.


It is my understanding that the Winchester "Ball ammo" has too high a port pressure for the M1 Garand.
Personally, I'm not going to subject my M1 Garand to that ammo.
You certainly can, if you want to.

Same as "Sunoco 260" (from years ago) was available at the 'pump', but, not specifically intended to be used in a '66 Chevy II with a 6-banger in it.

Yes, the adjustable gas plug (i.e. "Shuster") is fairly inexpensive and available, but, I don't particularly see the need for it.
I'm going to shoot the ammo in my M1 Garand that was designed for it.
IF 'surplus' M2 Ball isn't available, I'll load my own.
H-4895 or IMR 4064 is still available, and with the proper loads (as supplied by the NRA years ago), Winchester 748 is usable.
Or, I'll load my favorite 168 gr Sierra MK with a powder suitable for use in the Garand, to keep the port pressures within the design specifications.

fnfalman
03-23-2012, 18:57
I gave you the info,........distort it how you like.
Stir that **** pot like you always do........

Stir what pot? Are you so always right that you can't be doubted? Yeah, we know how good of a mechanical engineer you are...Mr. Hydrostatic Shock.


Show me where Winchester states this ammo is good to go
for the Garand. It's the wrong powder, it's the wrong velocity.

Find it for all to see smart guy, post it for all to view!
Here's your one shot to be in the limelight! :tongueout:

Who gives a damn? Put in the adjustable gas plug and make some adjustments. Big whoopdedoo.

Highspeedlane
03-23-2012, 19:15
Thanks guys. I will just stick with m2 ball. Not interested in adjusting any gas settings.


I would still consider the adjustable plug if you happen on a batch of '06 of the more current, slow burning propellant variety.

Piece of cake to use but you do have to waste a few shots to find the point that you are permitting enough gas pressure to cycle. Saves your op rod from getting bent though.

Highspeedlane
03-23-2012, 19:22
It is my understanding that the Winchester "Ball ammo" has too high a port pressure for the M1 Garand.


Yep, the old, faster burning propellants in M2 developed its peak pressure curve sooner so the push on the op rod is gentler. The slower propellants often used in hunting ammo develops peak pressure closer to the muzzle and slaps the op rod harder.

I keep the adjustable nut in mine even for M2.

faawrenchbndr
03-24-2012, 04:06
Stir what pot? Are you so always right that you can't be doubted? ......


Once again,......all hot air!

fnfalman
03-24-2012, 08:53
Once again,......all hot air!

Yeah, it's not like you've ever posted bogus info before, huh? Please regale us again with your knowledge about hydrostatic shock.

Pot calling the kettle black much?

faawrenchbndr
03-24-2012, 10:43
Yeah, it's not like you've ever posted bogus info before, huh? Please regale us again with your knowledge about hydrostatic shock.

Pot calling the kettle black much?





Unlike you,......I'm MAN enough to admit when I'm wrong,
which I did in that thread.


I have no idea why I waste my time with you. It's pointless
arguing/debating anything. It's time to add you to the list.

California is a great place for you, you seem to fit in well!

ferd
03-24-2012, 13:03
I stick with the Greek, as it has been wonderfully accurate in my Garand and 03-A3. I save the brass and reload using H4895 and pulled M2 ball projectiles. If you don't reload, get a cheap single stage press and dies etc. It's easy and worth it for the Garand. Chasing clips and empty brass is part of the charm. You have a great instrument of war, go out and enjoy it, and don't sweat the little stuff. By the way, if commercial ammo is made for the Garand, it will say so on the box.

fnfalman
03-25-2012, 01:40
Unlike you,......I'm MAN enough to admit when I'm wrong,
which I did in that thread.


I have no idea why I waste my time with you. It's pointless
arguing/debating anything. It's time to add you to the list.

Then why do you? You're always the one that has to make a smartass remark to any of my postings.

Please add me to The List. :upeyes::rofl:

California is a great place for you, you seem to fit in well!

Indeed. California is an awesome place unlike that state that you live in.

faawrenchbndr
03-25-2012, 12:23
You're such a great troll! :rofl:

thisaway
03-25-2012, 12:39
PMC and Federal ("American Eagle" brand) both offer 150-grain FMJ loads for M1s.