The Real Trayvon Martin Scandal [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : The Real Trayvon Martin Scandal


maxsnafu
03-23-2012, 08:27
http://www.vdare.com/articles/the-real-trayvon-martin-scandal-minorities-have-bigger-problems-than-trumped-up-hate-crimes

Brucev
03-23-2012, 09:33
Trumped up hate crimes? Inmost instances... probably. In this case... no.

G33
03-23-2012, 09:40
Hispanic on black crime.
Future of Jesse and Al.



Outdoor Hub mobile.
Tin can/string.

TBO
03-23-2012, 10:21
Obama: 'If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon'

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

muscogee
03-23-2012, 10:26
The real scandal is that this is being used to attack the stand your ground laws.

.45 guy
03-23-2012, 10:31
The real scandal is that this is being used to attack the stand your ground laws.
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Ruble Noon
03-23-2012, 15:43
The real scandal is that this is being used to attack the stand your ground laws.

Aren't you proud of your vote for obama?

mt920
03-23-2012, 16:14
The real scandal is that this is being used to attack the stand your ground laws.

You're absolutely right! Zimmerman should be arrested and charged with murder as his actions shouldn't be covered under the "stand your ground" law. His actions weren't the actions of a responsible conceal carry citizen. It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmerman was once inspired to become a police officer, but lacked the basics to qualify as one. LIKE ENGLISH!!!! Don't pursue means don't pursue.... And again, because of this jerk the "stand your grounds" law is being closely criticized.

lancesorbenson
03-23-2012, 16:26
You're absolutely right! Zimmerman should be arrested and charged with murder as his actions shouldn't be covered under the "stand your ground" law. His actions weren't the actions of a responsible conceal carry citizen. It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmerman was once inspired to become a police officer, but lacked the basics to qualify as one. LIKE ENGLISH!!!! Don't pursue means don't pursue.... And again, because of this jerk the "stand your grounds" law is being closely criticized.

I gotta say, this Zimmerman guy has mall ninja written all over him.

mt920
03-23-2012, 16:57
I gotta say, this Zimmerman guy has mall ninja written all over him.

Oh, yes he does.... A real "bad as" with a gun....

maxsnafu
03-23-2012, 17:08
It's ironic that everyone is accepting at face value the press reports about this incident. Is the press biased when it reports on politics but totally honest when the subject is crime? Given their track record, how do we know that the press is reporting this honestly? We already know that Zimmerman is Hispanic but the press reported it as if he were White. I'm happy that all of you are able to figure out exactly what REALLY happened. I wish I had your confidence.

Ruble Noon
03-23-2012, 17:14
You're absolutely right! Zimmerman should be arrested and charged with murder as his actions shouldn't be covered under the "stand your ground" law. His actions weren't the actions of a responsible conceal carry citizen. It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmerman was once inspired to become a police officer, but lacked the basics to qualify as one. LIKE ENGLISH!!!! Don't pursue means don't pursue.... And again, because of this jerk the "stand your grounds" law is being closely criticized.

Might be more to the story.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1407266

maxsnafu
03-23-2012, 17:38
Might be more to the story.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1407266

Lots more: http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

Ruble Noon
03-23-2012, 17:49
Lots more: http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

That is quite a different picture than the media is portraying.

maxsnafu
03-23-2012, 17:50
http://onestdv.blogspot.com/2012/03/great-black-victim.html

devildog2067
03-23-2012, 17:50
Zimmerman's father is white and his mother is Hispanic (not that it matters).

Gundude
03-23-2012, 18:02
Lots more: http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

From the article:Almost all of the news items about George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin contains a combination of false statements, opinions presented as facts, transparent distortions, and a complete absence of some of the most relevant details.

From the same article:The media also characterizes Trayvon as a "model student." In fact, he under a five day suspension when the shooting took place. That is why he was staying at a house so far from his school on a school night. A laywer for Trayvon's family has blocked access to his school records. However, you have to do something pretty bad to get suspended for five days.
Looks like an opinion presented as fact, no?

I'm starting to think it's impossible to write an unbiased article on this particular topic.

mt920
03-23-2012, 18:25
That is quite a different picture than the media is portraying.

Ruble Noon: I don't mean to be disrespectful, but isn't the link that you're referring to part of the media?

Zimmerman went from making a very solid and sound decision, by calling 9-1-1... To ignoring the 9-1-1 dispatcher to not pursue the kid after making several claims about the kid's character... To chasing the kid... To killing the kid...

One would wonder why Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher's direction to stop pursuing the kid, by later ranning after him.

Now let's be honest, what would you have done during your teenage years if an strange adult man was following you AND you did nothing wrong? I use the adjective "strange" to describe Zimmerman, because the black kid probably viewed at Zimmerman as a strange white man following him. Regardless of skin color or race, I would've ran. A strange man following me for no apparent reason is a threat, therefore, I have to run and perhaps fight for my life if needed. Men have been teaching their young boys for generations to "avoid" the fight, but if needed "defend" yourself. As I said, a man chasing me is a threat to my life. So my question is, what would you have done in you were the kid?

Back to Zimmerman... His actions reminded me of kids playing cops and robbies, but this situation was real.

ColdSteelNail
03-23-2012, 18:36
The real scandal is that this is being used to attack the stand your ground laws.
This event shouldn't be an indictment of the stand your ground law. The problem is that Zimmerman pursued the kid even after being told not to . But you're right they are calling the law into question because of this.

Ruble Noon
03-23-2012, 18:40
Ruble Noon: I don't mean to be disrespectful, but isn't the link that you're referring to part of the media?

Zimmerman went from making a very solid and sound decision, by calling 9-1-1... To ignoring the 9-1-1 dispatcher to not pursue the kid after making several claims about the kid's character... To chasing the kid... To killing the kid...

One would wonder why Zimmerman ignored the dispatcher's direction to stop pursuing the kid, by later ranning after him.

Now let's be honest, what would you have done during your teenage years if an strange adult man was following you AND you did nothing wrong? I use the adjective "strange" to describe Zimmerman, because the black kid probably viewed at Zimmerman as a strange white man following him. Regardless of skin color or race, I would've ran. A strange man following me for no apparent reason is a threat, therefore, I have to run and perhaps fight for my life if needed. Men have been teaching their young boys for generations to "avoid" the fight, but if needed "defend" yourself. As I said, a man chasing me is a threat to my life. So my question is, what would you have done in you were the kid?

Back to Zimmerman... His actions reminded me of kids playing cops and robbies, but this situation was real.

By media I was referring to the MSM (main stream media)

I too question his actions based on initial reporting. It is entirely possible that Martin was defending himself against Zimmerman based on the 911 call that seems to show that Zimmerman was following him.
At this point all we have is speculation.

muscogee
03-23-2012, 22:30
Aren't you proud of your vote for obama?

Didn't vote for Obama. Because of people like I probably will next time. Keep on libeling. Your kind are going to get stomped.

muscogee
03-23-2012, 22:32
This event shouldn't be an indictment of the stand your ground law. The problem is that Zimmerman pursued the kid even after being told not to . But you're right they are calling the law into question because of this.

I agree. Standing your ground and initiating a confrontation are two different things.

ckrockets
03-23-2012, 22:51
You're absolutely right! Zimmerman should be arrested and charged with murder as his actions shouldn't be covered under the "stand your ground" law. His actions weren't the actions of a responsible conceal carry citizen. It wouldn't surprise me if Zimmerman was once inspired to become a police officer, but lacked the basics to qualify as one. LIKE ENGLISH!!!! Don't pursue means don't pursue.... And again, because of this jerk the "stand your grounds" law is being closely criticized.

when someone is beating your head into the concrete they are trying to kill you therefore lethal force is justified

Big Mad Dawg
03-23-2012, 23:37
Why was Trayvon suspended from school?
Did Trayvon attack Zimmerman?
Were we as a community deprived of a good boy that had turned his life around and was probably thinking about becoming a constitutional lawyer? (see question one)
Why is the obama sticking his racist nose in to this? Could it be to try and gain political ground? Has the moron never used “no comment” or this is a local matter that is being investigated?

The answers will probably vary depending on your ability to use logic in your thinking.

LibertyPatriot
03-23-2012, 23:47
My wife handed me her phone with an article on it and said to read the last paragraph. She said "if you're going to buy a rifle, you better do it soon." She really does love me!

Added President Obama: "I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means we examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident."

Flintlocker
03-23-2012, 23:57
when someone is beating your head into the concrete they are trying to kill you therefore lethal force is justified

So, start a fight, find yourself losing and then you can shoot a person? Keep that in mind when someone is following you in the dark and confronts you. If you fight back, by your own standard, you can be shot and killed without any repercussions.

The Maggy
03-24-2012, 00:16
So, start a fight, find yourself losing and then you can shoot a person? Keep that in mind when someone is following you in the dark and confronts you. If you fight back, by your own standard, you can be shot and killed without any repercussions.

That is the exact question that I was going to ask. At what point does instigating a confrontation turn into defending your life?

We will never actually know what happened because one of the key players in the case is dead. All we have is Zimmermans 911 tape, the 911 tape were you can hear someone calling for help before being shot, and Zimmermans indecent report.

Interestingly enough about Zimmerman's head, did he require stitches or an ambulance ride, or a trip to see the doc?

Flintlocker
03-24-2012, 00:22
That is the exact question that I was going to ask. At what point does instigating a confrontation turn into defending your life?

We will never actually know what happened because one of the key players in the case is dead. All we have is Zimmermans 911 tape, the 911 tape were you can hear someone calling for help before being shot, and Zimmermans indecent report.

Interestingly enough about Zimmerman's head, did he require stitches or an ambulance ride, or a trip to see the doc?

The initial police report states that he got treated briefly by the SFD (assuming its Sanford Fire Department) but I haven't read anything about any other treatment.

Police report and other files can be found here:

http://sanfordfl.gov/investigation/trayvon_martin.html

Slug71
03-24-2012, 01:10
Im completely unbias on this and really don't have opinion BUT

911 NEVER told Zimmerman NOT to chase the kid though.
They asked if him if he was chasing the kid. Zimmerman said, yes. 911 said, "Ok, we don't need you to do that".
That is NOT telling him to stand down. That is leaving a choice for him to make and clearing themselves of liability.

HarleyGuy
03-24-2012, 02:16
I'm waiting to see if the audio experts can determine which one of these guys was screaming, asking for help just before the gunshot.

Also, it may be interesting if they can determine the distance between the victim and the gun when the shot was fired.

It doesn't look good for the shooter especially with all of the protestors calling for him to be arrested.

Flintlocker
03-24-2012, 02:45
I'm waiting to see if the audio experts can determine which one of these guys was screaming, asking for help just before the gunshot.

Also, it may be interesting if they can determine the distance between the victim and the gun when the shot was fired.

It doesn't look good for the shooter especially with all of the protestors calling for him to be arrested.

The only eyewitness stated that Zimmerman was the one crying for help. The victims father has reportedly stated that the cries for help heard on the 911 call are not his son's. Zimmerman's father has stated that it is not his son's voice. Zimmerman himself was overheard by a police officer to have said that he himself cried for help.

Several sources have stated that the gun was fired point blank and against the victims chest which stopped the firearm from cycling, leaving a full magazine.

It doesn't look good for the shooter because he pursued Martin in the dark and rain, away from his vehicle, and confronted him on a walkway between townhouses. You can't chase someone for 100's of yards, precipitating a fight, then find yourself losing it and then claim self defense when you shoot them.

maxsnafu
03-24-2012, 05:59
This event shouldn't be an indictment of the stand your ground law. The problem is that Zimmerman pursued the kid even after being told not to . But you're right they are calling the law into question because of this.

That's because they don't like the "Stand Your Ground" law. They think that people should be forced to submit to their victimization.

Ruble Noon
03-24-2012, 07:27
Didn't vote for Obama. Because of people like I probably will next time. Keep on libeling. Your kind are going to get stomped.

My mistake, I thought you had said that you voted for obama on this forum.

muscogee
03-24-2012, 07:51
My mistake, I thought you had said that you voted for obama on this forum.

Nope, I'm a Buckley conservative. I despise what the extreme right wing has done to the conservative movement and the Republican Party. I want them out.

maxsnafu
03-24-2012, 11:30
Nope, I'm a Buckley conservative. I despise what the extreme right wing has done to the conservative movement and the Republican Party. I want them out.

Buckley was a "Buckley conservative" as a young man. As he aged he became a textbook neoconservative drooling over every foreign war we embarked upon. He was really into the "spreading democracy" shtick--no matter how many American lives it cost.

The REAL Buckley: http://reasonradionetwork.com/20101002/how-i-was-fired-by-bill-buckley-joe-sobran

maxsnafu
03-24-2012, 11:57
“Unarmed” Black Teenagers

http://www.vdare.com/articles/the-fulford-file-unarmed-black-teenagers-threat-menace-or-both-david-frum-doesn-t-seem-to-k

Brucev
03-24-2012, 17:10
In this case, the dead teenager was armed with a dangerous bag of Skittles and dressed in a urban tactical hooded sweat shirt. Obviously armed and very dangerous. Yep.

Swiper
03-24-2012, 17:17
In this case, the dead teenager was armed with a dangerous bag of Skittles and dressed in a urban tactical hooded sweat shirt. Obviously armed and very dangerous. Yep.

Hey! He could have caused some real damage with that 23 oz Arizona Sweet Tea can.

snerd
03-24-2012, 19:32
In this case, the dead teenager was armed with a dangerous bag of Skittles and dressed in a urban tactical hooded sweat shirt. Obviously armed and very dangerous. Yep.

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

DOC44
03-24-2012, 19:40
In this case, the dead teenager was armed with a dangerous bag of Skittles and dressed in a urban tactical hooded sweat shirt. Obviously armed and very dangerous. Yep.

it would be interesting to see the survailence video of Martin in the convience store buying the tea and candy.

Doc44

muscogee
03-24-2012, 19:48
Buckley was a "Buckley conservative" as a young man. As he aged he became a textbook neoconservative drooling over every foreign war we embarked upon. He was really into the "spreading democracy" shtick--no matter how many American lives it cost.

The REAL Buckley: http://reasonradionetwork.com/20101002/how-i-was-fired-by-bill-buckley-joe-sobran

Actually, he opposed the war in Iraq. He caught a lot of flack for it.

Ruggles
03-24-2012, 19:53
Anybody think this is really going to damage the Stand You Ground Law? I do not see it. The folks in Florida have to much common sense to let that happen IMO. That law was brutally opposed and attacked to no avail when it came into being, this will not make it fall IMO.

I also really think this case does not apply to that law, Zimmerman went looking for trouble, it did not come looking for him from what I have read thus far. Of course we do not have the facts publicly yet so who knows.

maxsnafu
03-24-2012, 19:58
Actually, he opposed the war in Iraq. He caught a lot of flack for it.

YEARS after it started, when it became apparent it was a boondoggle, he changed his mind and opposed it.

Kingarthurhk
03-24-2012, 20:24
In this case, the dead teenager was armed with a dangerous bag of Skittles and dressed in a urban tactical hooded sweat shirt. Obviously armed and very dangerous. Yep.

And out of his neighborhood, unmornitored by his parents, and apparently beating the crap out the neighborhood watch.

certifiedfunds
03-24-2012, 22:50
The real scandal is that this is being used to attack the stand your ground laws.

After all this time, I can't believe I finally agree with a post of yours.

This has everything they want: race and a good opportunity to attack gun rights.

certifiedfunds
03-24-2012, 22:52
Nope, I'm a Buckley conservative. I despise what the extreme right wing has done to the conservative movement and the Republican Party. I want them out.

And just like that :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Seriously, you're not ANY kind of a conservative. You've said here that you want democratic socialism.

russtang
03-25-2012, 02:47
A few important details that stand out to me about this case.

First, the 911 operator did not say "stop", "stand down", "do not chase him" etc. The operator said "OK, we don't need you to do that".

The operator asked " are you following him?" Not " are you pursuing him" or "are you chasing him".
Its not legally required for anyone to do what a 911 operator says anyway.

Nowhere on the 911 call does it sound like Zimmeran is running after or chasing TM. It sounds like he is walking and talking pretty calmly and unhurriedly. Toward the end of the call he states that "he ran" (TM) but you dont here any change in his talking or breathing that indicate he is also running.

The media are using tactics trying to form an image and template to fit their spin to go along with their and the politicos agenda:

Constantly showing pictures of a smiling, cute, 8-10 year old-no pics of a 17yo, 6'3'' young man doing the gangsta pose..
repeatedly using the terms "chasing","pursuing" instead of "following"..."gunned down" not just shot, or shot in self defense..."little boy", "little kid", instead of teenager or 17 year old or youmg man..."only armed with skittles"..white man killed/murdered black kid etc...

These terms and tactics don't change what happened that day, but they do have an effect on what you think happened that day and how the media thinks you should feel about it.

chickenwing
03-25-2012, 03:36
Zimmerman had no need to escalate the situation. No forcible felony was being committed, not even a misdemeanor.

Was the shot good? Maybe. If it's true that Martain had Zimmerman down, pounding on him, I bet he sure felt afraid for his life. But to the same point, maybe Martain was acting in self-defense as well.

Either way Zimmerman should be responsible for advancing the situation, semantics aside, he escalated the conflict beyond what was needed, Martian is dead, and dead men tell no tales.

Who knows, maybe Martian feared for his life having a man following, confronting him, and maybe as far as going hands on so he the yoot defended himself.

I would.



All speculation on my part, but this is what I think happened.

Zimmerman confronted Martian, went hands on trying to detain Martain, and got his ass handed to him. So he pulled his gun and took the shot.

I think this matter should definitely be investigated and go to court.



Race baiting BS aside, even after the clear raccoon reference on the 911 tape, its not going to bring any clarity to what happened.

chickenwing
03-25-2012, 04:13
That's because they don't like the "Stand Your Ground" law. They think that people should be forced to submit to their victimization.

Yep.

I think that is the hang up in this case though. IMHO both had the right to self-defense in this case. Martin just didn't have a gun.



One question I would like to ask the GT brain-trust.

It's proper to keep shooting when defending yourself till the threat is stopped, does that apply when you are using your hands to defend yourself? Or is there some magical cut-off or imaginary referee to let you know your attacker has had enough and will stop?

Skyhook
03-25-2012, 06:40
It's ironic that everyone is accepting at face value the press reports about this incident. Is the press biased when it reports on politics but totally honest when the subject is crime? Given their track record, how do we know that the press is reporting this honestly? We already know that Zimmerman is Hispanic but the press reported it as if he were White. I'm happy that all of you are able to figure out exactly what REALLY happened. I wish I had your confidence.

It's almost like some of us learned nothing from the Tawana Brawley or the infamous Lacrosse players debacle.:faint:

The MSM is NOT- repeat- NOT (IMHO) trustworthy for anything more serious than the weather report.

NDCent
03-25-2012, 06:54
So, let me see if I got this right. For now, youths in hoodies are out of season and there's a bounty on Hispanics? :dunno:

maxsnafu
03-25-2012, 06:56
It's almost like some of us learned nothing from the Tawana Brawley or the infamous Lacrosse players debacle.:faint:

The MSM is NOT- repeat- NOT (IMHO) trustworthy for anything more serious than the weather report.

^^^Post of the year!^^^

All would do well to remember this.

HexHead
03-25-2012, 07:18
I'm waiting to see if the audio experts can determine which one of these guys was screaming, asking for help just before the gunshot.

Also, it may be interesting if they can determine the distance between the victim and the gun when the shot was fired.

It doesn't look good for the shooter especially with all of the protestors calling for him to be arrested.

Eyewitnesses have said it was the guy on the ground in the red shirt doing the screaming. That would have been Zimmerman. And that the other guy was on top of him, beating him.

Kingarthurhk
03-25-2012, 08:26
Eyewitnesses have said it was the guy on the ground in the red shirt doing the screaming. That would have been Zimmerman. And that the other guy was on top of him, beating him.

If that is the case, I guess Zimmerman had the wrong last name to defend himself?:whistling:

DOC44
03-25-2012, 09:08
So, let me see if I got this right. For now, youths in hoodies are out of season and there's a bounty on Hispanics? :dunno:

but you can't hunt over a baited field.... like a Taco Bel

Doc44

Skyhook
03-25-2012, 09:39
^^^Post of the year!^^^

All would do well to remember this.


Mornin', brother.
:cheers:

certifiedfunds
03-25-2012, 09:52
but you can't hunt over a baited field.... like a Taco Bel

Doc44

:rofl::rofl::rofl:so wrong

maxsnafu
03-25-2012, 12:47
Yep.

I think that is the hang up in this case though. IMHO both had the right to self-defense in this case. Martin just didn't have a gun.




The dirty little secret as to why the Left promotes gun control is to protect their pet demographic groups who commit a disproportionate amount of crimes from being killed and injured by the law abiding groups from whom they would deny gun ownership. In fact, if the Left had its druthers they would ban almost all justifications for self-defense.