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DaneA
03-27-2012, 20:29
So I'm reading an employee handbook today and find this under the heading of "Prohibited Conduct"
"Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law."

So since I possess a HCP does that allow me "specifically permitted in accordance with state law"?

I seem to think so :cool:

vafish
03-27-2012, 20:51
I'll bet it means whatever the boss wants it to mean.

If they want to make an issue out of it they will fire you for it.

whitebread
03-27-2012, 20:57
I think it means deep concealment.

Warp
03-27-2012, 21:38
So I'm reading an employee handbook today and find this under the heading of "Prohibited Conduct"
"Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law."

So since I possess a HCP does that allow me "specifically permitted in accordance with state law"?

I seem to think so :cool:

Sounds like an HCP is what you need.

CarryTexas
03-27-2012, 22:06
It might mean that in states like TX and OK a company can't prohibit you from having a gun in your car while parked on company property.

beatcop
03-28-2012, 04:56
Likely their intent means security guards....that will be their position at the labor board hearing when you are appealing being terminated.

EAJuggalo
03-28-2012, 06:36
Unless your state has an exemption in either it's carry law or labor law I would expect that you would be fired, and your unemployment would probably be denied if you were caught carrying on the clock. There are a large number of states that won't allow employers to ban firearms from parking lots, that would be "specifically permitted."

Bill Lumberg
03-28-2012, 06:54
Odd wording. Permits aren't generally seen as "lawful purposes" or "IAWSL" in statutory or policy applications (except on the internet). But some states require employers to allow employees to store firearms in their vehicles with proper permits. I could see this specific wording referencing that. Do you live in such a state? Ultimately, it's up to the interpretation and intent of your employer. Ask if you want to be legit. So I'm reading an employee handbook today and find this under the heading of "Prohibited Conduct"
"Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law."

So since I possess a HCP does that allow me "specifically permitted in accordance with state law"?

I seem to think so :cool:

Arc Angel
03-28-2012, 07:20
So I'm reading an employee handbook today and find this under the heading of "Prohibited Conduct"
"Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law." So since I possess a HCP does that allow me "specifically permitted in accordance with state law"? I seem to think so :cool:

The statement, 'Prohibited Conduct: Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law.' is a contradiction in terms. The author's intent is too ambiguous for another person to accurately identify.

Now, my wife's personnel handbook clearly stated, 'No firearms are allowed on company property.' - Period. She was really upset when she was forced to stop carrying; but, her two dialectically opposite choices were obvious. She decided to stop carrying during the week; and I quickly noticed that once the Ruger began to be left home ...... well, it tended to stay there.

This is when I started to hear sage remarks like, 'What do I need my gun for?' 'I've got you!' Guess she forgot that I wasn't there for, both, the attempted carjacking and very bloody store robbery that she subsequently became involved in. The ironic part? Her boss is an NRA Lifer who owns a large and expensive gun collection. :upeyes:

Chuche2
03-28-2012, 07:32
Dane, The Tn Senate is going to vote on the "Parking Lot Bill" very soon. It will pass and anyone with a HCP will be allowed to keep their guns locked in the car.

LibertyPatriot
03-28-2012, 07:46
My work just last week updated our "Weapons Policy". I'm sure it has to do with insurance as we already had something similar in the handbook to what was posted earlier. We also had to sign a receipt of the policy.

Weapons Policy

“Company” desires to have all associates work in a safe and secure environment.

Therefore, “Company” strictly prohibits firearms, concealed or otherwise, or any other type of weapon in their possession on all “Company” premises, including “Company” buildings and parking lots, as well as on customer property. Firearms and weapons are also prohibited from all “Company” functions and events, regardless of where they are held. Weapons include, but are not limited to, ammunition of any kind, knives (other than small pocket knives), explosives, and/or any other objects that could be used to harass, intimidate, or injure another individual.

This policy applies to all associates, regardless of whether they have a “concealed carry” endorsement.

If an associate determines or has reason to believe that someone is in violation of this policy, the associate is to notify management immediately. Violators of this policy will be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including termination.

RECEIPT & ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF “Company's” WEAPONS POLICY


Please read the following statements and sign below to acknowledge your receipt of the “Company” Weapons Policy.

• I have received and read a copy of the “Company” Weapons Policy.

• I understand that this policy is subject to change at the sole discretion of “Company” at any time.

• I understand that should the contents of this policy be changed in any way, “Company” may require an additional signature from me to indicate that I am aware of and understand any new policies.

• I understand that my signature below indicates that I have read and understand the above statements and have received a copy of the “Company” Weapons Policy.



_____________________________​_______________________
Associate Signature​Date



_____________________________
Associate Printed Name




______________________________​ ​________________________
Manager’s Signature​Date




______________________________
Manager’s Printed Name

jastroud
03-28-2012, 09:07
Yep, we have a policy here at work as well, the Workplace Violence Prevention policy. Rediculous to say the least. I work at a Credit Union, that has had 5 branches robbed in the 5 years I have been here, 3 of those one branch. It irks me to no end to drive to work, take my 26 and CTAC off, leave it in the car, and put it back on when I go out. The only workplace violence we have is thugs coming in waving guns around and demanding money and they don't give a damn about our policy. In fact, if someone here snapped and went postal, the policy wouldn't do diddly squat to prevent them from coming back and shooting up the place, it would just negate my right to defend ME!!!

If you ask me, policy is the dirtiest word in the English language.

------------------—-------------------
slap happy pappy

Lior
03-28-2012, 09:08
Translation: get a SmartCarry

md2lgyk
03-28-2012, 09:34
I have no idea what my employer's "official" policy is in this regard. I work in Maryland so it's irrelevant anyway.

John Rambo
03-28-2012, 10:18
Carry a gun. Don't tell anyone about it. If you end up using it or someone spots it, 'permitted' or not, put in your 2 weeks notice before they get a chance to fire you. Because you are getting fired.

Thats just how it is.

jpa
03-28-2012, 10:34
The policy allows weapons when specifically permitted by state law. You were issued your PERMIT by the state, right? Sounds like you are literally "permitted" by state law. ;)

ponders
03-28-2012, 10:40
there is NOTHING in my policy that says i cant carry at work.. not a single word! so i carry and its privatly owned company so its legal.

i wonder if they could fire someone if it WASNT in the handbook????

MarcDW
03-28-2012, 13:08
Don't ask, don't tell anyone if you carry and it does not state anything in the corp. policy.
If you ask it will have most likely two effects:
1. They wake up and will add it in most cases.
2. You will be always looked at someone who "wants to bring a gun to work".
So you are not a good little sheep and you bite back >>>> bad employee / liability.

In most cases the wonderful insurance industry is to blame.
They would not be liable for employees being shot by some criminal or murderer, but if the employee shoots such a person in self defense, they would have to pay.

Oh; when asking for the policy, have a good excuse!

dosei
03-28-2012, 14:48
So I'm reading an employee handbook today and find this under the heading of "Prohibited Conduct"
"Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law."

So since I possess a HCP does that allow me "specifically permitted in accordance with state law"?

I seem to think so :cool:

But what matters is...Does the Company think so...

Best to check with the HR person at the company.

Glockworks
03-28-2012, 19:56
Employer bans you from carrying even though you have a CCW license. Ok, then IF a mad person kills you and the employer did not have armed security on site, can your family sue the employer. I mean, the employer stripped you of your second amendment rights and at the same time not doing the reasonable alternative and hire armed security guards?

LibertyPatriot
03-28-2012, 20:25
Glockworks, that's exactly what I told my wife to do if something like that happened at my work and I told her I would do the same at her work as they don't allow her to carry either.

MarcDW
03-28-2012, 21:18
The answer generally is no, the employer can not be sued.
Well, anyone can be sued for anything, but it will not go anywhere.
Unless there is a higher risk then anywhere else or your employer puts you do to your work into a higher risk, it's the police responsibility to protect you.
In order that there is a liability for your employer, there must have been a specific risk your employer should have known and ignored.

Warp
03-28-2012, 21:26
The answer generally is no, the employer can not be sued.
Well, anyone can be sued for anything, but it will not go anywhere.
Unless there is a higher risk then anywhere else or your employer puts you do to your work into a higher risk, it's the police responsibility to protect you.
In order that there is a liability for your employer, there must have been a specific risk your employer should have known and ignored.

It most certainly is not. The police do not have a responsibility or duty to protect any specific individual citizen, with few exceptions (such as if you are in their custody)

MarcDW
03-28-2012, 21:36
I should have described that better too, you are right Warp.
The police of cause is providing general security, of cause they are not responsible in the sense that you can sue them if something happens to you.

SK2344
03-29-2012, 01:09
I'm retired but I still work part time as a Security Officer. Before retirement I did Armed Security work for 15 years at Gated Communities here in Florida. I now work in a 14 story building on the midnight shift. The position is unarmed and the Management Company Prohibits Firearms on the property. I work alone from 2300 to 0700 in a secure building but at several times, I must do perimeter checks and also go into the parking garage. I carry a Taurus TCP 380 in a pocket holster while on duty. Just last December a man was found murdered on the front stairway of one of the buildings close to mine. The bottom line is that I value my life and safety much more than following their rules. There were also several other occasions during my 15 years when I did a few unarmed shifts but even then I had a 38 special in an ankle holster. That is just the way I feel about this issue!

KentuckyPatriot
03-29-2012, 02:16
Yep, we have a policy here at work as well, the Workplace Violence Prevention policy. Rediculous to say the least. I work at a Credit Union, that has had 5 branches robbed in the 5 years I have been here, 3 of those one branch. It irks me to no end to drive to work, take my 26 and CTAC off, leave it in the car, and put it back on when I go out. The only workplace violence we have is thugs coming in waving guns around and demanding money and they don't give a damn about our policy. In fact, if someone here snapped and went postal, the policy wouldn't do diddly squat to prevent them from coming back and shooting up the place, it would just negate my right to defend ME!!!

If you ask me, policy is the dirtiest word in the English language.

------------------—-------------------
slap happy pappy

Dark slacks and good pocket holster along with a Bodyguard 380 or something of similar size....with sights for real work (I know up close and personal you won't need them).

Or non-white shirts with one of the concealment cloth shoulder holsters.

Take care of yourself, carry deep, and go home.

SCmasterblaster
03-29-2012, 08:58
I CCWed at my printing plant job for seven years, It stayed hidden, but it was always ready. When 9/11 occurred, it was a comfort to have my G17 on me with 17 rounds of +p+ 115gr JHPs.

Roger1079
03-29-2012, 11:25
The purpose of rules like this are to cut down on workplace violence by disgruntled employees. My question is, if you have a firearm in your car out of sight, how the hell would anyone ever know without you mentioning it?

KentuckyPatriot
03-29-2012, 12:47
The purpose of rules like this are to cut down on workplace violence by disgruntled employees. My question is, if you have a firearm in your car out of sight, how the hell would anyone ever know without you mentioning it?

With respect, this is not why the the typical "No Weapon" workplace rule is promulgated....disgruntled employees that are off their rocker enough to start shooting care about rules...just like criminals who see the "No CCW" sign automatically leave their weapons outside the business.

These rules are to minimize, or eliminate, legal awards as they can point to your signature affirming you know their rules and they can show that they terminated you for failure to obey should your firearm become known. It is something they will proudly wave in front of a judge as they ask to be dismissed from a lawsuit saying any damages belong squarely in your court.

The choice of carrying in light of these kinds of rules rest with you, your personal situation, and your willingness to accept the consequences should your firearm become known to your managers. I carry because my risk is high enough that believe the choice is appropriate...oh, and I am my own boss and I don't have no stinkin rules! :supergrin:

WhiskyRidge
03-30-2012, 20:21
J-WAG/KentuckyPatriot, well said. One of the reasons I like being self employed.

DoubleWide
04-01-2012, 23:00
I think you could fairly interpret that as concealed carry is allowed. Unfortunately, at some point, you may need to sue them for your job back.

Mine just states no firearms and I know I'd lose my job over it. The funny thing is I read a memo about active shooters and if you can't get away or hide, you should use make-shift weapons against them :rofl:

Glock_Father
04-02-2012, 07:04
I live in a state where this came up in the last couple years in the legislature. They decided that even without permit people could keep firearms in their cars. This was reasoned by saying the vehicle was essentially an extension of a person's home property. This means the firearm is also allowed to be kept in the vehicle even when employers say no firearms on company property. However the employer can still maintain policies prohibiting firearms from being carried into their buildings even if a person holds a CCW permit because state law still allows businesses to make their own decision there (at that point you're no longer on your property). The way I'd interpret the above policy is exactly how it's carried out here.

I also happened to be working security (unarmed) at a company that had a policy prohibiting firearms with almost the exact same wording. Before anyone says it, yes I wanted us to be armed, but that was the wish of the client, and with police being encouraged to visibly sit on our property I did not feel that we were in any danger. What I did mention to some employees that asked was this: Let's say something does happen, your firearm is in your car, you go to get it (If it would even be possible). As you re-enter the building police show up and take you down in a not so nice manner. Also personally I do not feel comfortable keeping my firearms in my vehicle. I've experienced break-ins before, but at least my gun wasn't there.

badge315
04-02-2012, 07:43
I'm retired but I still work part time as a Security Officer. Before retirement I did Armed Security work for 15 years at Gated Communities here in Florida. I now work in a 14 story building on the midnight shift. The position is unarmed and the Management Company Prohibits Firearms on the property. I work alone from 2300 to 0700 in a secure building but at several times, I must do perimeter checks and also go into the parking garage. I carry a Taurus TCP 380 in a pocket holster while on duty. Just last December a man was found murdered on the front stairway of one of the buildings close to mine. The bottom line is that I value my life and safety much more than following their rules. There were also several other occasions during my 15 years when I did a few unarmed shifts but even then I had a 38 special in an ankle holster. That is just the way I feel about this issue!

If you are licensed pursuant to Chapter 493, carrying a firearm on a non-armed post (even if you have G-license) is not only a violation of your employer's policy, but is illegal.


493.6115 Weapons and firearms.—

.....

(3) No employee shall carry or be furnished a weapon or firearm unless the carrying of a weapon or firearm is required by her or his duties, nor shall an employee carry a weapon or firearm except in connection with those duties. When carried pursuant to this subsection, the weapon or firearm shall be encased in view at all times except as provided in subsection (4).

redbaron007
04-02-2012, 10:42
So I'm reading an employee handbook today and find this under the heading of "Prohibited Conduct"
"Possessing firearms or other weapons on company property, including parking lots, unless specifically permitted in accordance with state law."

So since I possess a HCP does that allow me "specifically permitted in accordance with state law"?

I seem to think so :cool:

If you value carrying more than your job; don't worry about it and do as you please. However, if your job does have some value and you're not real eager to jump out in to the job market; then I would suggest to be very cautious and if you have to know, contact HR for THEIR interpretation.


:wavey:

red

vtjetboy
04-03-2012, 14:54
I am closly watching a lawsuit that was filed by a friends family. My friend was a supervisor at his job and was shot and killed by a disgrunteled employee he had fired earlier. The company had a no firearms policy. The family are sueing the employer for not protecting him and denying his right to defend himself. It is in the early stages of litigation now and I will update this post as the details become known

ScottieG59
04-10-2012, 20:54
Overall, this is a no win scenario. Employers will feel safer having a no gun policy. They will not stake their fortunes on armed employees with unknown abilities.

When I worked as a federal contractor and was deployable, I was authorized to be armed (with some conditions).

When I worked in a private family owned business, I always carried.

When I go where I cannot carry, I keep the gun in a car safe.

Also, I am careful around schools and other gun free (free fire) zones. It is tough, but I adapt as well as I can.

NMOFT
04-10-2012, 22:19
To the OP; you should assume that if you are found to have a gun on your person at work you'll be fired and proceed from there.

If you ask HR for clarification they will probably tell you that guns aren't allowed at work, and you will draw attention to yourself that you don't want. Whatever you decide to do, itís best to fly under the radar as far as this issue is concerned.

DaneA
04-10-2012, 23:27
To the OP; you should assume that if you are found to have a gun on your person at work you'll be fired and proceed from there.

If you ask HR for clarification they will probably tell you that guns aren't allowed at work, and you will draw attention to yourself that you don't want. Whatever you decide to do, itís best to fly under the radar as far as this issue is concerned.




I fully intend to fly under the radar on this one. Deep concealment and all. If I ever get caught (which is unlikely as I will be the senior management in the building) I'll point out that I'm following their policy to a t.

NEOH212
04-11-2012, 03:10
They can go pound salt if they think I won't at least have my gun in my car. I'd rather loose my job than my life.

Taking the gun into the building is a different story though. It would have to be a real emergency and I certainly wouldn't make it known to anyone that I had it. Furthermore, I wouldn't want to make a habit of it by any means.

TSAX
04-11-2012, 03:22
I am closly watching a lawsuit that was filed by a friends family. My friend was a supervisor at his job and was shot and killed by a disgrunteled employee he had fired earlier. The company had a no firearms policy. The family are sueing the employer for not protecting him and denying his right to defend himself. It is in the early stages of litigation now and I will update this post as the details become known

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this and the effect it will have on the company policies.








:50cal:

redbaron007
04-11-2012, 07:02
I am closly watching a lawsuit that was filed by a friends family. My friend was a supervisor at his job and was shot and killed by a disgrunteled employee he had fired earlier. The company had a no firearms policy. The family are sueing the employer for not protecting him and denying his right to defend himself. It is in the early stages of litigation now and I will update this post as the details become known

Can you give us the case number and state it is filed in? It would be see how this comes out. I will bet your friend's family will not prevail...IIRC, this has been litigated in several states with all deeming the employer is not required to protect, however, they can restrict on their premises.

Keep this question in mind: Do you have a responsibility/duty to protect people in your home if your prevent them from carrying? The general answer is no.

Keep us posted.

:wavey:

red

vtjetboy
04-11-2012, 20:01
It was filed in VT state court. And I as well do not think a court will decide the matter either. If I know the court system here, an out of court settlement will be reached.

sarge83
04-12-2012, 07:35
At my place of employment carry of any weapon is strictly verboten. Now keep in mind its a place of higher education and they have instituted new safety policies about the campus with all the school shootings that have taken place. They are deeply concerned...

The powers that be who instituted these much needed and well thought out policies are two hour away behind numerous locked doors and armed security guards have placed no weapons allowed signs all over the campus and have a new cell phone alert system which partially works and no one knows how to use. They came down met with the faculty and staff and explained their policies and when asked what we are to do with an active shooter we got the call 911 response and then it was total deer in the headlights, not a clue in hell. But hey it makes them feel good, they got any nasty weapons off their campuses and can tell the press we are now safe

To further ease our concerns about safety they have made sure we have NO security guards much less an armed campus security force as according to them having a security guard would be a liability issue for them, they seriously said this. But they have issued handy little brochures which tell you this word for word:

If the gunman approaches you, your actions will depend solely on your judgement and capabilities. No strategy is 100% effective.

We are on our own.

Contact
04-12-2012, 09:17
Employer bans you from carrying even though you have a CCW license. Ok, then IF a mad person kills you and the employer did not have armed security on site, can your family sue the employer. I mean, the employer stripped you of your second amendment rights and at the same time not doing the reasonable alternative and hire armed security guards?

It could be interpreted that way, however I believe your interpretation to be one that will not hold up in court. An employer is merely offering you a job, you do not have to take it if you do not believe in the company's policies.

Now, of course there is a fair amount of social pressure to hold a job, but that does not mean that you HAVE to accept THAT job, nor can you blame an employer for making you follow their rules. As a business owner, you should have the right to make whatever rules you want to, providing you do not target anyone because of a specific class, meaning race, sex, sexual orientation, handicap, national origin or religion.

If I own a hot air balloon company, I may want to make a rule that my employees can't weight over 400lbs, and while someone has a right to weigh 400lbs, it could really hurt my business if I can't get my balloons off the ground.

SCmasterblaster
04-12-2012, 11:10
I got fired from my job for CCWing on Co. property.

ponders
04-12-2012, 11:28
I got fired from my job for CCWing on Co. property.


if you were concealing it how did you get found out?:faint:


i carry at work, there is NO POLICY against it and its NOT against ANY laws to do so, so when i go to work its on my hip:supergrin:

even tho there is NO policy against it, NOT A SINGLE WORD against it,

i bet if i get caught i would get fired too, and then sue for my job back:wavey:

Chesafreak
04-12-2012, 11:37
Most of the guys I work with like to go to the shooting range on our lunch break. We made the mistake of posting pics of one of our range trips to Facebook. The next week our employer announced a new "no weapons" policy. Thankfully our parking garage isn't company property, so we can keep our guns in our cars.

Hill863
04-12-2012, 11:38
The answer generally is no, the employer can not be sued.
Well, anyone can be sued for anything, but it will not go anywhere.
Unless there is a higher risk then anywhere else or your employer puts you do to your work into a higher risk, it's the police responsibility to protect you.
In order that there is a liability for your employer, there must have been a specific risk your employer should have known and ignored.


I do line work in Miami for a company and they tell me that I can't carry at all but that doesn't stop anybody on my crew from carrying I carry a g22 on my side and a ar in the bucket with me police protection my butt two weeks ago my crew had to go to a community in Miami and the police told us if u get into trouble your on your own first thing I did was check my guns and told my crew to to do the same heck with company policies. You know it's bad when the swat team pulls up next to you just to advise you it's time to shut down for the day and get out before 6 o'clock.

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truetopath
04-12-2012, 20:51
My company has a no weapons policy also, but I often work in very high crime areas, and seeing as I've grown kinda fond of life, I feel I should do everything in my power to preserve it. So, I carry deep and keep my mouth shut.

glock192012
04-13-2012, 13:34
It is a very personal discussion when and were to carry. If your employer had a sign that discriminated against people for religious or sexual choices they would be in a load of $#!+. Why even ask permission to exercise a legal right. Also experts in my research all say carry almost always. You may have to give up your full size piece for eight hours. But with guns on the market like lcp,kahr pm9,kel tec pf9,lc9,lcr,and pile of others, not to mention a long list of holsters, why would any one not feel deep concealment is a viable option to nothing. Just a thought.

Mass10mm
04-13-2012, 17:43
My employer strongly encourages weapons carry. I can open carry in my office whenever I choose, and carry concealed anywhere else (Mass is a no-open-carry state).


The reason is that I am self-employed. My boss is a great guy! :supergrin:

GlockMasterG9
04-14-2012, 11:16
I think it means deep concealment.

Agreed