Supreme court to strike down entire health care bill? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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FL Airedale
03-28-2012, 12:59
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-justices-poised-to-strike-down-entire-healthcare-law-20120328,0,2058481.story

yamen1999
03-28-2012, 13:23
My daughter would be removed from my health insurance if the health care bill is struck down. I say strike the whole law because it is unconstitutional. My daughter and I will have to figure something else out, but that's life.

Sporaticus
03-28-2012, 15:05
My daughter would be removed from my health insurance if the health care bill is struck down. I say strike the whole law because it is unconstitutional. My daughter and I will have to figure something else out, but that's life.

I always thought it would be good for parents to be able to keep their kids on their insurance after school until they get a stable job.

At that age, they aren't going to be using much in benefits, and if the insurance company can bill for another person, I would think that would be good for insurance companies. I remember right of school, I NEVER went to a doctor. I seldom ever do now.

Plus, if a 23 year old unemployed college grad were to get seriously ill, the parents are most likely going to help pay, so the insurance coverage would help the parents. It would help protect the parents retirement savings.

It seems like our government went all or none with the healthcare law, when they could have done a little here and a little there to greatly improve things.

I don't know how old your daughter is, but she can get a good policy from Blue Cross for less than $100 a month. I know because I had my own insurance for a while, and I was 47 years old.

JBnTX
03-28-2012, 15:05
If, and that's a big if, Obamacare is struck down in it's entirety, that's the end of Obama.

glockeglock
03-28-2012, 16:15
.....

glockeglock
03-28-2012, 16:15
.....

KING-PIN
03-28-2012, 16:53
If, and that's a big if, Obamacare is struck down in it's entirety, that's the end of Obama.

I doubt it.

Obama could hold a press conference about Obamacare being shot completely down by the Supreme Court, during which he could wipe his ass with an American flag, spit on a war memorial, kick a puppy and a kitten, call white people any racial epithet of his choosing, and run through the streets stabbing/shooting everyone he sees, and America is still dumb enough to buy Obama 2012 bumper stickers, and vote for him to boot.

Sad, but people in this country are starting to make me ashamed to be an American. Hopefully my faith in the country will be restored come November, but I'm not holding my breath. I honestly don't think Obama's term is but half over.

Glock30Eric
03-28-2012, 17:37
I doubt it.

Obama could hold a press conference about Obamacare being shot completely down by the Supreme Court, during which he could wipe his ass with an American flag, spit on a war memorial, kick a puppy and a kitten, call white people any racial epithet of his choosing, and run through the streets stabbing/shooting everyone he sees, and America is still dumb enough to buy Obama 2012 bumper stickers, and vote for him to boot.

Sad, but people in this country are starting to make me ashamed to be an American. Hopefully my faith in the country will be restored come November, but I'm not holding my breath. I honestly don't think Obama's term is but half over.

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G29Reload
03-28-2012, 17:44
If, and that's a big if, Obamacare is struck down in it's entirety, that's the end of Obama.


We can only be so lucky.

He is an idiot, Constitutionally speaking, and recall if you will, the SOTU speech where he basically dissed the SCOTUS to their faces.

I know they're not supposed to consider anything but the facts, but I still think that was a stupid move as far as he was concerned.

Based on what Scalia said today, it sounds like he won't sever the individual mandate from the rest of the bill on its size alone, saying something to the effect of, "You want us to consider every component of this 2700 page bill outside of the mandate not surviving? A mocking tone at that.

Scalia also indicated there was no way to go thru it all short of just dumping it on the Clerks.

Severing the bill and killing the mandate but allowing the rest to survive without killing it will create burdens Congress never envisioned.

sbhaven
03-28-2012, 17:45
I don't know how anyone can think they know what will happen. The justices may seem to be leaning harder on one side than the other, but that may only mean they are looking for more justification for their ultimate position.

Regarding the striking of the entire bill, SCOTUS generally issues very narrow rulings; often as narrow as possible given the specific question(s) before them.
Very true. Everyone is speculating what the justices might do when they go to vote. The court has a long history of passing out narrow rulings on the cases they hear.

The court has basically three options, strike bill in its entirety, strike portions of the bill and let other portions stand, or let the entire bill stand. In the Heller and Chicago 2A cases the court could have gone beyond the limits of the case but they chose not to. I suspect (a pure guess) that the court will choose the middle of the road and strike portions of the bill and let other portions stand. I don't think they have it in them to perform the right and just course of action and strike the entire bill (eta: I hope I'm wrong and they do strike the entire bill as unconstitutional). If they choose to let the entire bill pass then the flood gates for progressive/statists to force all sorts of government things upon the peasants.

HexHead
03-28-2012, 17:50
If, and that's a big if, Obamacare is struck down in it's entirety, that's the end of Obama.

Not so fast Kemosabe. It will likely ensure his reelection. The Dems will go into full jihad mode on how they tried to provide universal healthcare to everyone, but those mean Republicans took it all away.

Thankfully, it's looking like the Dems will lose the Senate by 8-10 seats, so we'll have wonderful gridlock and nothing will get done in DC, which can only be a good thing.

G29Reload
03-28-2012, 17:52
I doubt it.

Obama could hold a press conference about Obamacare being shot completely down by the Supreme Court, during which he could wipe his ass with an American flag, spit on a war memorial, kick a puppy and a kitten, call white people any racial epithet of his choosing, and run through the streets stabbing/shooting everyone he sees, and America is still dumb enough to buy Obama 2012 bumper stickers, and vote for him to boot.


Another possibility exists, though unlikely.

He could refuse to acknowledge the Court's edict and continue to implement it.

Back in the days of westward expansion and Andrew Jackson, the Cherokee nation, one of the brightest Indian tribes that mastered our language and/or got legal assistance, took the Government to court regarding being kicked out of NC, which later resulted in the Trail of Tears.

After they had WON…pushed it to the Supreme Court, which ruled in their favor!

Andrew Jackson's response was, "How big an Army does the Supreme Court have?"

Of course there would probably be a revolt.

OTOH, with an R majority in Congress, I don't know why Boehner has pussied out and refused to defund O-care, he has the votes and all revenue issues emanate by rules from the House.

steve4102
03-28-2012, 17:55
My daughter would be removed from my health insurance if the health care bill is struck down. I say strike the whole law because it is unconstitutional. My daughter and I will have to figure something else out, but that's life.

Not sure what you are referring to as the real Obama Care has not taken total affect yet.

Check your State Insurance Regulations. Here in MN, children can and will remain on parents Medical insurance plan until the age of 25, school or no school.

HexHead
03-28-2012, 17:57
Very true. Everyone is speculating what the justices might do when they go to vote. The court has a long history of passing out narrow rulings on the cases they hear.

The court has basically three options, strike bill in its entirety, strike portions of the bill and let other portions stand, or let the entire bill stand. In the Heller and Chicago 2A cases the court could have gone beyond the limits of the case but they chose not to. I suspect (a pure guess) that the court will choose the middle of the road and strike portions of the bill and let other portions stand. I don't think they have it in them to perform the right and just course of action and strike the entire bill (eta: I hope I'm wrong and they do strike the entire bill as unconstitutional). If they choose to let the entire bill pass then the flood gates for progressive/statists to force all sorts of government things upon the peasants.

Heller and McDonald weren't Congressional bills crafted without a severability clause. One federal court in FL found that because of that if you strike one provision as unconstitutional, the whole bill is unconstitutional as well.

samurairabbi
03-28-2012, 18:03
Another possibility exists, though unlikely.

He could refuse to acknowledge the Court's edict and continue to implement it.

Of course there would probably be a revolt.

In 1937, FDR tried packing the US Supreme Court. The political damage to the New Deal was severe. Roosevelt started from the 1936 landslide victory; Obama would not have the political headroom that Roosevelt had.

glockeglock
03-28-2012, 18:06
.....

evlbruce
03-28-2012, 19:57
Not so fast Kemosabe. It will likely ensure his reelection. The Dems will go into full jihad mode on how they tried to provide universal healthcare to everyone, but those mean Republicans took it all away.

That's James Carville's tact and I agree with it. ('http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320960/20120328/james-carville-overturning-obamacare-help-democrats.htm')

The cost of Medicare, Medicaid, and medicine in general will continue it's upward spiral of cost with or without 0bamacare. This way Dems can blame the Healthcare mess on Republicans instead of having to deal with the utter ruin their program would have brought.

KING-PIN
03-28-2012, 20:03
Another possibility exists, though unlikely.

He could refuse to acknowledge the Court's edict and continue to implement it.

Back in the days of westward expansion and Andrew Jackson, the Cherokee nation, one of the brightest Indian tribes that mastered our language and/or got legal assistance, took the Government to court regarding being kicked out of NC, which later resulted in the Trail of Tears.

After they had WON…pushed it to the Supreme Court, which ruled in their favor!

Andrew Jackson's response was, "How big an Army does the Supreme Court have?"

Of course there would probably be a revolt.

OTOH, with an R majority in Congress, I don't know why Boehner has pussied out and refused to defund O-care, he has the votes and all revenue issues emanate by rules from the House.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Revolt? I guess I just feel like if it didn't happen when rumor got around that Obama was going to bankrupt the country, it's not going to happen at all. I can hope that enough people care about the country's well being to do so, but so many don't just so long as they keep getting everything handed to them. They aren't going to fight for anything besides whatever gets them more of your paycheck. And since they get everything free from me because i work my ass off daily, and they dont, they are the underprivileged and we should always cater to the underprivileged. What a crock of BS.

Sadly of all those things, I think kicking a puppy and a kitten would upset the most voters.

Absolutely. Your probably right. Damn all of those who gave their life's for the country (who would almost certainly be ashamed of what they would see today if they could) but don't you dare touch that fluffy little kitten! Seriously? Is this how weak we have become? I'm all for the humane treatment of animals, but without the flag and all those who protect her, you wouldn't be able to sit around and worry about things so trivial. You'd worry about things more like "Hope I don't die today."

cowboy1964
03-28-2012, 20:12
This bill has already been in place for two years. Unwinding it all is going to be a fiasco. More likely Congress and the Prez will get together and actually hack out a compromise.

It's going to be interesting. But I hear they won't make a decision until June? :steamed:

muscogee
03-28-2012, 20:19
That's James Carville's tact and I agree with it. ('http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320960/20120328/james-carville-overturning-obamacare-help-democrats.htm')

The cost of Medicare, Medicaid, and medicine in general will continue it's upward spiral of cost with or with 0bamacare. This way Dems can blame the Healthcare mess on Republicans instead of having to deal with the utter ruin their program would have brought.

Obama will blame judicial activism for overturning the will of the people. After Obama is re-elected he will use this as an excuse to railroad the Republicans into supporting his judicial nominees and pack the Supreme Court. This does not bode well for the Second Amendment.

snerd
03-28-2012, 23:47
That's James Carville's tact and I agree with it. (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320960/20120328/james-carville-overturning-obamacare-help-democrats.htm)
Carville is an idiot. Oh yeah, 40 years of democrat rule!! :rofl:

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juggy4711
03-28-2012, 23:51
After Kelo I do not trust the SCotUS no matter its composition.

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 00:15
I always thought it would be good for parents to be able to keep their kids on their insurance after school until they get a stable job.

At that age, they aren't going to be using much in benefits, and if the insurance company can bill for another person, I would think that would be good for insurance companies. I remember right of school, I NEVER went to a doctor. I seldom ever do now.

Plus, if a 23 year old unemployed college grad were to get seriously ill, the parents are most likely going to help pay, so the insurance coverage would help the parents. It would help protect the parents retirement savings.

It seems like our government went all or none with the healthcare law, when they could have done a little here and a little there to greatly improve things.

I don't know how old your daughter is, but she can get a good policy from Blue Cross for less than $100 a month. I know because I had my own insurance for a while, and I was 47 years old.

Not being a smartass here but if she can already buy it for $100 a month, why the need for the law forcing it on the insurance market?

All a kid that age needs is a catastrophic policy. Those can be had cheaply.

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 00:16
This bill has already been in place for two years. Unwinding it all is going to be a fiasco. More likely Congress and the Prez will get together and actually hack out a compromise.

It's going to be interesting. But I hear they won't make a decision until June? :steamed:

That's the Republicans for ya.

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 00:19
Another possibility exists, though unlikely.

He could refuse to acknowledge the Court's edict and continue to implement it.

Back in the days of westward expansion and Andrew Jackson, the Cherokee nation, one of the brightest Indian tribes that mastered our language and/or got legal assistance, took the Government to court regarding being kicked out of NC, which later resulted in the Trail of Tears.

After they had WON…pushed it to the Supreme Court, which ruled in their favor!

Andrew Jackson's response was, "How big an Army does the Supreme Court have?"

Of course there would probably be a revolt.



This

OTOH, with an R majority in Congress, I don't know why Boehner has pussied out and refused to defund O-care, he has the votes and all revenue issues emanate by rules from the House.

That's the Republicans for ya.

Neither side wants it to go away.

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 00:20
If, and that's a big if, Obamacare is struck down in it's entirety, that's the end of Obama.

I figured a big liberal progressive would support the healthcare law?

You don't? Why not?

Chronos
03-29-2012, 05:06
If, and that's a big if, Obamacare is struck down in it's entirety, that's the end of Obama.

How lucky for us, then, that the Republicans are about to nominate the grandfather of Obamacare, who has a proven track record of getting such legislation passed permanently.

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 07:05
How lucky for us, then, that the Republicans are about to nominate the grandfather of Obamacare, who has a proven track record of getting such legislation passed permanently.

Yeah, but that's only because Ron Paul is crazy and the Constitution is old.

Geko45
03-29-2012, 07:28
Whole loaf or half a loaf? I say it depends on what kind of "loaf" we are talking about...

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 19:59
Whole loaf or half a loaf? I say it depends on what kind of "loaf" we are talking about...

The kind you flush.

samurairabbi
03-29-2012, 22:05
Whole loaf or half a loaf? I say it depends on what kind of "loaf" we are talking about...

We are seeing an inversion of the classic left and right attitudes toward judicial judgement with this current case. For decades, it was the LEFT that advocated wholesale upheaval with Supreme Court decisions, and the RIGHT that counselled limited judicial intervention in judging legislation. On this case, it currently seems the RIGHT is pushing for complete repudiation of the entire legislation, and the LEFT that advocates moderation and selectivity. It will be interesting killing time until the decision is released in June.

Stubudd
03-29-2012, 22:09
http://lewrockwell.com/goyette/goyette30.1.html

certifiedfunds
03-29-2012, 22:22
We are seeing an inversion of the classic left and right attitudes toward judicial judgement with this current case. For decades, it was the LEFT that advocated wholesale upheaval with Supreme Court decisions, and the RIGHT that counselled limited judicial intervention in judging legislation. On this case, it currently seems the RIGHT is pushing for complete repudiation of the entire legislation, and the LEFT that advocates moderation and selectivity. It will be interesting killing time until the decision is released in June.

It would be nice if they could just go ahead and release the votes yay or nay and let us wait for the opinions.

The wait is going to be kinda miserable, but shorter than the wait for a CABG if the bill is upheld.

G29Reload
03-29-2012, 22:42
That's the Republicans for ya.

Neither side wants it to go away.

I don't think that's the case. For the Republicans the problem is actually cowardice. They don't want it, but the Leadership is plagued with cowardice, Boehner the crybaby along with Kantor are gutless.

G29Reload
03-29-2012, 22:47
That's the Republicans for ya.


If the bill is struck down in its entirety, its over. The House will not create another travesty and ramrod it down our throats. That Congress got itself unelected in 2010. There's nothing to compromise on. The only thing I want to see that will actually fix more than Obama ever dreamed of if he REALLY wanted to fix healthcare and not be a dictator is:

LESS regulation. I should be able to buy healthcare insurance across state lines rather than be limited to the 4 in-state choices I have now.

G29Reload
03-29-2012, 22:48
CABG

WTF is a CABG?

sopdan
03-29-2012, 22:51
It would be nice if they could just go ahead and release the votes yay or nay and let us wait for the opinions.

The wait is going to be kinda miserable, but shorter than the wait for a CABG if the bill is upheld.

As I understand it, it's not quite that simple. They form an opinion, pass it around to each other, and may modify their final opinion (or not) based on what other justices have written, etc.

I think that's actually a pretty good system, myself. It's better than forming a opinion set in stone, only to later say "oh, crap, I didn't think of that part/angle... oh well, hindsight is 20/20, but the precedent is set"

Here ya go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States#Decision

Javelin
03-29-2012, 22:53
I don't see how they can approve this legislation as being Constitutional. Even the hardest liberals know that it is not.

:wavey:

certifiedfunds
03-30-2012, 06:05
WTF is a CABG?

Coronary Artery Bypass Graft

Cavalry Doc
03-30-2012, 06:38
I'll beleive it when I see it. We can hope though.

mj9mm
03-30-2012, 13:39
after hearing Supreme Court Justice Kagan speak about the bill, apparently she hasn't read enough of the bill to judge it:crying:after all, what is coersive about the federal government giving the states a boatload of money to spend on poor people's health care?

Javelin
03-30-2012, 13:45
after hearing Supreme Court Justice Kagan speak about the bill, apparently she hasn't read enough of the bill to judge it:crying:after all, what is coersive about the federal government giving the states a boatload of money to spend on poor people's health care?

I believe Kagen was directly involved with the legislation of the Health Care Bill that is in it's current form.

How on earth did she not read it.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say from what I have seen & heard from the left I don't believe the liberals thought this would ever go before the SCOTUS and are obviously not ready to take a stand because that would mean they tie themselves to this sinking travesty that they tried to undermine the US citizens with. Come on the Bill was passed in the dead of night for God sakes!

:steamed:

Javelin
03-30-2012, 13:46
Coronary Artery Bypass Graft

I thought it stood for

Combat Action Badge Giveaway

But I guess I was wrong. :tongueout:

rgregoryb
03-30-2012, 14:31
Yeah, but that's only because Ron Paul is crazy and the Constitution is old.

well, you are half-right....................:wavey: