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RowdyatHeart
03-29-2012, 20:53
Alright since has Martin vs. Zimmerman has been relegated to fur ball status, can we continue? I will start.

I went into this first thinking Zimmerman should have been arrested. The more I checked into this story, the more I believe Zimmerman broke no laws. I concede I let the media and emotion get the best of me.

Is he guilty of being stupid? You bet. A wise man would have let the Police handle the situation. A wise man would have stayed in the vehicle. Stupidity is not a crime in this case.

I have been reminded again of how destructive the mainstream media is to our nation. They conveniently fail to remind their audiences that Zimmerman will go before a Grand Jury.

3000fps
03-29-2012, 21:17
Anyone have any intel on Zimmerman adminstering aid to Trayvon after he shot him? Eyewitness said he was straddling him with his hand pressing on his back.

TBO
03-30-2012, 18:17
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif

Berto
03-30-2012, 18:52
Oh **** I'm saving that.:rofl:

beatcop
03-30-2012, 19:02
very nice...just discovered this hole

Fred Hansen
03-30-2012, 19:35
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

TBO
03-31-2012, 00:13
Photos shape opinions of Trayvon Martin case

http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/11629677-418/photos-shape-opinions-of-trayvon-martin-case.html

TBO
03-31-2012, 00:21
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120328030503-ac-kth-trayvon-martin-photos-00004308-story-top.jpg

3000fps
03-31-2012, 10:27
http://i42.tinypic.com/ountwp.jpg

3000fps
03-31-2012, 10:27
http://i.imgur.com/OiGIC.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17hyxoraw2vt4jpg/cmt-medium.jpg

Beretta92guy
03-31-2012, 14:50
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif

LMFAO!!!!:rofl::rofl:

Caver 60
04-01-2012, 21:55
Wasn't there a thread about 'one punch knock out' games a while back? Just asking.

Multiple Arms
04-01-2012, 22:56
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif

Now I want some Skittles. :rofl:

dpadams6
04-05-2012, 18:52
http://i.imgur.com/OiGIC.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17hyxoraw2vt4jpg/cmt-medium.jpg

Looks like he failed his spelling test in school too.

MoneyMaker
04-06-2012, 06:28
RussP And his sidekick Sam Spade would not agree on this gif picture,bwahahahahahahaha

Rooster Rugburn
04-06-2012, 18:05
I think Gabe makes some interesting points:


http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/04/commentary-the-zimmerman-martin-shooting.html


I like his line "Captain America, Defender of the Innocent" because so many HCP holders think it's a badge.

vikingsoftpaw
04-06-2012, 22:31
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/04/commentary-the-zimmerman-martin-shooting.html

I like his line "Captain America, Defender of the Innocent" because so many HCP holders think it's a badge.

His points are very valid.

One angle I had not previously thought about was the effect that money and political agendas have on the Judicial System.

Glockdude1
04-12-2012, 14:47
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif

:rofl::rofl:

You owe me a new keyboard, mouse and a Monitor!!!

:rofl: :thumbsup:

dpadams6
04-12-2012, 16:33
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif

That's awesome. How can I get that to my email?

TBO
04-13-2012, 16:18
Right click on it, save image as (save to desktop), drag into email.

dpadams6
04-13-2012, 17:40
Right click on it, save image as (save to desktop), drag into email.

Thanks. My friends will love that

TBO
04-13-2012, 20:36
You are most welcome.

Sent from my mind using Tapatalk 2

countrygun
04-13-2012, 23:30
As someone whospent a long time on a murder trial jury and also on Grand Jury I think I know what the jury would be looking at if all they had were the facts we, the public, have at this moment.

The very first thing they will ask in deliberations is,

"Is there any actual evidence or any witness that PROVED Zimmerman did anything illegal?"

That simple, not "should he have done "X" "but "were his known actions lawful?"

They are NOT a civil jury, they are not there to decide if Zimmerman getting out of bed that morning led to the death, that doesn't mean squat.

Then the question of whether or not his decisions led to the shooting from an indifference to human life? Did he do something NEGLIGENT? Now whether or not the florida laws under which he was charged cover that or not, I can tell you that guilty or innocent juries want to leave that courtroom knowing, in their hearts, they made the right decision. They will reconstruct the incident until THEY feel they know what happened. If there are blank spots in the prosecutions case, they will only have Zimmerman's word to gon on, so they will evaluate and "profile" if you will, the participants in the event. Here is what they will add up (If they have no more info than we have today)

1. What is Zimmermans history with, Blacks, other minorities, Law enforcement. Are there any patterns?

2. On that day Zimmerman called the police, not Martin

3. When the dispatcher told him that they didn't need him to follow he said "OK", Do witnesses or evidence (location of the fight etc) corroberate refiute that he stopped.

4. When asked for his address, Zimmerman hesitate because he said that he didn't know where Martin was. evidence, witnesses?

5. Martin had a Cell Phone, why didn't he call the police if he was or felt threatened, if he was a law abiding citizen, isn't that what Zimmerman did when he saw soneone suspicious?

6. Is it more believable (absent any evidence) that Zimmerman who knew the police were on their way, would pursue and incite a fight when he was completely within his legal rights an responsibilities at that point, knowing that he had called the police and that they would show up at anytime pursued and caused a confrontation, or is it more believable that the young man who didn't feel threatened enough, or didn't for some reason,want to call the police, decided to physically confront Zimmerman?


When they feel they have the answers, to their satisfaction, to 1-6 it will justify in their minds the final vote on the charges before them.

Again this is based on what WE know and don't at this moment.


edit to add: It will come down to the question "Did Zimmerman start the "fight" or did he do anything to cause us to feel that we couldn't convict Martin of assault if he started the fight?"

That simple

Bilbo Bagins
04-15-2012, 09:52
I mentioned this on one of the threads that got closed down. I still think this case was hand picked from day one as a case to challenge "stand your ground" and concealed carry.

They wanted a case with a crazy white man with a CCW in a Stand your Ground state shooting an innocent unarmed black kid.

It is obvious some in the media, some black activist groups, and some in goverment, have been molding this case to fit that description. The question is why? Is it something to challange the law, it it for a political talking point for the upcoming election, or something else? Also how far does it go? Are the recent rash of black flash mob attacks nationwide on white people, cause by agitators, perhaps in the same league?

Crazy days we live in.

Bilbo Bagins
04-15-2012, 10:33
As someone whospent a long time on a murder trial jury and also on Grand Jury I think I know what the jury would be looking at if all they had were the facts we, the public, have at this moment.

The very first thing they will ask in deliberations is,

"Is there any actual evidence or any witness that PROVED Zimmerman did anything illegal?"

That simple, not "should he have done "X" "but "were his known actions lawful?"

They are NOT a civil jury, they are not there to decide if Zimmerman getting out of bed that morning led to the death, that doesn't mean squat.

Then the question of whether or not his decisions led to the shooting from an indifference to human life? Did he do something NEGLIGENT? Now whether or not the florida laws under which he was charged cover that or not, I can tell you that guilty or innocent juries want to leave that courtroom knowing, in their hearts, they made the right decision. They will reconstruct the incident until THEY feel they know what happened. If there are blank spots in the prosecutions case, they will only have Zimmerman's word to gon on, so they will evaluate and "profile" if you will, the participants in the event. Here is what they will add up (If they have no more info than we have today)

1. What is Zimmermans history with, Blacks, other minorities, Law enforcement. Are there any patterns?
Zimmerman has a few Black friends, including a friend who is a commentator on CNN. That is why the one judge reclused herself.

2. On that day Zimmerman called the police, not Martin
We will see if he did

3. When the dispatcher told him that they didn't need him to follow he said "OK", Do witnesses or evidence (location of the fight etc) corroberate refiute that he stopped.
Zimmerman did disregarded the dispatchers advise, and got out of his truck to look for Martin, but that is not illegal.

4. When asked for his address, Zimmerman hesitate because he said that he didn't know where Martin was. evidence, witnesses? Zimmerman lost track of where martin was and was apparently in an area of the neighborhood he was unfimilar with with no street signs.

5. Martin had a Cell Phone, why didn't he call the police if he was or felt threatened, if he was a law abiding citizen, isn't that what Zimmerman did when he saw soneone suspicious? Martin's girlfriend stated that he was on the cellphone with Martin, and that he told her that someone was following him, and she told him to run when Zimmerman approached Martin.

6. Is it more believable (absent any evidence) that Zimmerman who knew the police were on their way, would pursue and incite a fight when he was completely within his legal rights an responsibilities at that point, knowing that he had called the police and that they would show up at anytime pursued and caused a confrontation, or is it more believable that the young man who didn't feel threatened enough, or didn't for some reason,want to call the police, decided to physically confront Zimmerman?
That is the grey area that will come out. Did Zimmerman play wannabe cop, and confront, harrass, and assault Martin which led Martin to defend himself, or was Zimmerman wandering around looking for Martin, he found him, and Zimmerman did nothing more then get verbal with Martin, and Martin attack Zimmerman.

When they feel they have the answers, to their satisfaction, to 1-6 it will justify in their minds the final vote on the charges before them.

Again this is based on what WE know and don't at this moment.


edit to add: It will come down to the question "Did Zimmerman start the "fight" or did he do anything to cause us to feel that we couldn't convict Martin of assault if he started the fight?"

That simple

I contend that at the end of the day it will all hinge on if Zimmerman physically assaulted Martin, and that led to the fight that got Zimmerman on his back and Martin shot. Anyone on the street can yell and call you a criminal, but that does not give you the right to beat the crap out of them and ground and pound them. The might try to pin an ethnic intimidation wrap on him, but pretty much unless they can prove Zimmerman was brandishing his firearm, or physically touched Martin before Martin attacked, I can't see how zimmerman can be found guilty of anything.

JuneyBooney
04-15-2012, 10:50
Alright since has Martin vs. Zimmerman has been relegated to fur ball status, can we continue? I will start.

I went into this first thinking Zimmerman should have been arrested. The more I checked into this story, the more I believe Zimmerman broke no laws. I concede I let the media and emotion get the best of me.

Is he guilty of being stupid? You bet. A wise man would have let the Police handle the situation. A wise man would have stayed in the vehicle. Stupidity is not a crime in this case.

I have been reminded again of how destructive the mainstream media is to our nation. They conveniently fail to remind their audiences that Zimmerman will go before a Grand Jury.

Zimmerman defended himself and Martin was one ugly thug looking person at 17. He was no longer the innocent looking kid. I believe the shooting was righteous.

countrygun
04-15-2012, 11:46
2. On that day Zimmerman called the police, not Martin
We will see if he did


"We will see if he did" ?????


You have got to be kidding, right?

Where did the recording come from?

Who released the recording?

That is ridiculous.

Jerry
04-15-2012, 12:02
I contend that at the end of the day it will all hinge on if Zimmerman physically assaulted Martin, and that led to the fight that got Zimmerman on his back and Martin shot. Anyone on the street can yell and call you a criminal, but that does not give you the right to beat the crap out of them and ground and pound them. The might try to pin an ethnic intimidation wrap on him, but pretty much unless they can prove Zimmerman was brandishing his firearm, or physically touched Martin before Martin attacked, I can't see how zimmerman can be found guilty of anything.



I can’t see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the “full” video that was played only once on TV. I can’t see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I can’t see how OJ walked. I hope I’m wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I won’t be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then I’m just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we don’t get what we want we’ll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldn’t but it always seems to.

countrygun
04-15-2012, 12:34
I canít see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the ďfullĒ video that was played only once on TV. I canít see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I canít see how OJ walked. I hope Iím wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I wonít be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then Iím just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we donít get what we want weíll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldnít but it always seems to.


I can tell you how OJ walked

When Mark Furhman was caught in a lie and when the glove didn't fit.

In this case, IF the prosecution tries to establish a racist motive it will open the door for defense rebuttal, and from what we have heard about Zimmerman thus far, racial motive is not going to stand long in the minds of jurrors.

IMO this case IS, in the jury room, going to be about FACTS, real honest FACTS, and not assumptions and opinions that internet ex-spurts pass off as facts. Some EVIDENCE, not assumption or fantasy, or "must have" or "obviously" is going to have to show that Zimmerman physically started the fight for him to be convicted. This is not a Civil Court with a "Preponderance of evidence shows that "most likely"..... This is a Criminal Court, and Zimmerman is innocent until it is "Proven beyond a reasonable doubt". Unfortunately there are too many people who think the product of their own imaginations is some kind of "proof". By the time the jury sets to deliberation they will have been educated on the difference beyond the level of internet Ex-spurts.

JuneyBooney
04-15-2012, 13:14
I canít see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the ďfullĒ video that was played only once on TV. I canít see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I canít see how OJ walked. I hope Iím wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I wonít be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then Iím just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we donít get what we want weíll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldnít but it always seems to.

I agree with you but it is because the laws are "ass backwards". :shocked: Did you see the Black guy in Baltimore the other day that was acquitted for running down the White kids? :steamed: Pretty disgusting to me.

Jerry
04-15-2012, 15:38
I agree with you but it is because the laws are "ass backwards". :shocked: Did you see the Black guy in Baltimore the other day that was acquitted for running down the White kids? :steamed: Pretty disgusting to me.

Itís not the law, although I agree there are many screwed up laws, it's the liberal judges and cockeyed juries that are being selected. Iíve only been allowed to sit on one jury, civil case. All one juror was worried about was getting it over with and back to work. He was afraid heíd lose his job. Another couldnít wait to get back to the bottle. One woman was so afraid sheíd make the wrong decision that I literally convinced her which way to vote. I could go on but there were only two of us that actually knew right from wrong and we literally convinced all the others to vote our way. I never want my life to be in hands of jury like the one I was on.

I was called and questioned for a criminal case. I was asked if I believed in the Hat Crime Law. I said no. I was then asked why. I told the DA that it was a useless law. He asked what I meant. I told him that criminals donít believe they will be caught so itís not a deterrent. I also said that to add time to a personís sentence because they committed a crime against someone of another races was ludicrous. A crime is a crime no matter whom it is committed against and should carry the same penalty for all. I believe what REALLY upset the applecart is when I looked him straight in the eye and with emphases said, beside the law is not being applied equally. I was promptly dismissed.

Bilbo Bagins
04-15-2012, 17:05
2. On that day Zimmerman called the police, not Martin
We will see if he did


"We will see if he did" ?????


You have got to be kidding, right?

Where did the recording come from?

Who released the recording?

That is ridiculous.

I'm not talking aboput Zimmerman's 911 call, I'm talking about if Martin made a 911 call. If it exist that evidence would be released at the prelimary hearing.

I hate to bet on this case, but I would bet that the whole alleged cell phone exchange between Martin and the girlfriend was BS. Again its all a wait and see at the prelims.

countrygun
04-15-2012, 17:12
I'm not talking aboput Zimmerman's 911 call, I'm talking about if Martin made a 911 call. If it exist that evidence would be released at the prelimary hearing.


The recording of that call (if it existed) would be in the hands of the same people that released the recording of Zimmermans call. Since they released one call to the public it would seem rather incongruous to not have released the other.

I think that is grasping at "Well, it could of happened"

Bilbo Bagins
04-15-2012, 17:16
I canít see how Rodney King was found not guilty or how the Officers were found guilty after seeing the ďfullĒ video that was played only once on TV. I canít see how the thugs that beat down the trucker walked away scot-free. I canít see how OJ walked. I hope Iím wrong but I see jail time for Zimmerman and I wonít be surprised if they beat him to death in prison. But then Iím just going buy historical fact when race becomes the whole issue in a trial. If we donít get what we want weíll riot seems to sway prosecutors and juries. It shouldnít but it always seems to.

Sorry and I was a LEO at the time of Rodney King, that was a complete and obvious ass woopin' . Was the ass woopin' deserved, probably, but its still very illegal for police beat the crap out of suspects that are down and not resisting.

OJ, unfortunately it was a matter of "Reasonable Doubt". If the Zimmerman case does not get dropped at the two prelims (Styandard Prelim and the Stand Your Ground hearing), and it goes to trial, Reasonable doubt will also play in Zimmerman's favor.

Zimmerman should get off, its just a matter if it will dropped at the prelims , or he will be found not guilty because they cannnot convict him of 2nd Degree murder or manslaughter because there is reasonable doubt.

countrygun
04-15-2012, 17:32
Sorry and I was a LEO at the time of Rodney King, that was a complete and obvious ass woopin' . Was the ass woopin' deserved, probably, but its still very illegal for police beat the crap out of suspects that are down and not resisting.

OJ, unfortunately it was a matter of "Reasonable Doubt". If the Zimmerman case does not get dropped at the two prelims (Styandard Prelim and the Stand Your Ground hearing), and it goes to trial, Reasonable doubt will also play in Zimmerman's favor.

Zimmerman should get off, its just a matter if it will dropped at the prelims , or he will be found not guilty because they cannnot convict him of 2nd Degree murder or manslaughter because there is reasonable doubt.

I completely agree with this asessment.

Jerry
04-15-2012, 17:58
Sorry and I was a LEO at the time of Rodney King, that was a complete and obvious ass woopin' . Was the ass woopin' deserved, probably, but its still very illegal for police beat the crap out of suspects that are down and not resisting.

I’m not a LEO, have never been a LEO and don't pretend to be a LEO. Did you see the video? The Whole video? I did! He was hopped up on drugs. They tried to get him cuffed and he picked up a cop and threw him. The cops jumped on him and brought him to his knees. He threw them off and stood back up. They knocked him down by hitting him in the legs with their sticks. He stood back up and continued fighting them. They started whaling on him and he went down. He kept trying to get back up so they kept hitting and started kicking him (that’s the part they kept playing on TV over and over again) and he just wouldn’t stay down. What do you do when a guy leads you on a high speed chase, wrecks and then keeps fighting you while you’re trying to make an arrest? I guess they should have just said, oh well have a nice night and be on your way.

I’ve seen police brutality and police abuse. What they did, what I saw in the FULL vidio wasn’t abuse it was justifiable force.

Why did he get off and why did the cops get convicted. Because the animals rioted and scared the hell out of the juries.

ZombieKing
04-21-2012, 23:44
Someone above said Zimmerman ignored the dispatchers advice to not follow Martin and got out of the car to follow Martin anyway.

This is wrong.

Zimmerman was already out of the car. And when he was told he didn't need to follow Martin he said OK and all indications are that he did indeed stop. Why? Because he spent the next minute on the phone talking to the dispatcher and during that conversation told the dispatcher he didn't know where Trayvon was.

ZombieKing
04-21-2012, 23:46
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#comment-103696

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.

Baba Louie
04-22-2012, 11:17
This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman. Great read, the blog.

MONEY TALKS. "Follow the Money" as Deep Throat said. Everyone is being played at the cost of one youngsters life to date and one young mans freedom and pending legal bills. Maybe his life as well.

The registered trademarking of the late sons name thing was revealing to moi.

All that is needed is ONE guilty plea somewhere, on any charge, for payday to arrive and ju$tice is only a chosen jury away.

Think Mommy and Daddy will write a best selling book on their ordeal and make a million dollars? Writing books is hard work I understand. I do wish Z would write one with M. Ayoob doing play by play and courtroom legal-beagle analysis... (might be a good learning tool for future CCW classrooms and help defray Z's legal costs along the way)

Jerry
04-22-2012, 11:54
Self explanatory.

http://youtu.be/LONUecnsMb8

Allfal
04-22-2012, 20:52
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#comment-103696

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.

I have been following that blog and the updates. It seems that they put some serious work into it and reference sources. It shows very clearly why GZ should never have been charged and why this charge should be dismissed at the immunity hearing. It's a great source of information.

Allfal
04-22-2012, 20:55
Check update #11.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/22/update-11-trayvon-martin-shooting-final-deconstruction-of-benjamin-crumps-media-evidence/

ZombieKing
04-22-2012, 23:37
Saw it. They are pretty much tearing apart Benjamin Crump (Martin family attorney).

Brucev
04-24-2012, 10:11
Great read, the blog.

MONEY TALKS. "Follow the Money" as Deep Throat said. Everyone is being played at the cost of one youngsters life to date and one young mans freedom and pending legal bills. Maybe his life as well.

The registered trademarking of the late sons name thing was revealing to moi.

All that is needed is ONE guilty plea somewhere, on any charge, for payday to arrive and ju$tice is only a chosen jury away.

Think Mommy and Daddy will write a best selling book on their ordeal and make a million dollars? Writing books is hard work I understand. I do wish Z would write one with M. Ayoob doing play by play and courtroom legal-beagle analysis... (might be a good learning tool for future CCW classrooms and help defray Z's legal costs along the way)

Hum... there once was a man whose child was abducted. That man went on to develop a T.V. show about such things. Probably copyrighted it. Makes sense. Allows him to control what will be done and not done with the tragedy that touched his child and the subsequent T.V. program.

Mr. & Mrs. Martin are wise to take the appropriate legal steps to restrict others from using the tragic killing of their son as a vehicle for commercial gain.

Will they "write a book?" Possibly. Will they use a ghost writer? That is entirely up to them. Many fine books have been written by people who relied on ghost writers to help in the process of actually getting their thoughts on paper. If zimmerman does write a book, fine. Whether or not he will be able to profit from any book he might write will be entirely dependent upon what the jury decides.

As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.

countrygun
04-24-2012, 10:18
As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.


Glad you have made up your mind about the case. You saved so much time waiting for those pesky facts. Sorry to hear that his actions, as reported so far, don't meet up to your standards. Omniscience is such a burden:upeyes:

Glockdude1
04-24-2012, 10:24
Hum... there once was a man whose child was abducted. That man went on to develop a T.V. show about such things. Probably copyrighted it. Makes sense. Allows him to control what will be done and not done with the tragedy that touched his child and the subsequent T.V. program.


Americas Most Wanted.........

:cool:

Dexters
04-24-2012, 11:00
As to cc, this incident puts on glaring display the problems that attend to the use of a weapon ostensibly in self-defense when common sense argues otherwise. If as written the Fla. law shields zimmerman, then the law is an abomination that will need to be re-written so as to be an actual means of justice rather than a tool to be used by a criminal.

A poor woman go to the store to buy some food for her children.

She is carrying a concealed weapon.

She is attacked by a much larger man who bangs her head on the concrete.

She shoots and kills the attacker.

Under the old law she would have to proved that she tried to retreat. Under the 'stand your ground' law she does not.

WinterWizard
04-25-2012, 17:51
If the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman caused the fight because of a confrontation and didn't get blindsided on the way back to his car (like he claims), then he has no right to claim self defense, and therefore stand your ground is null and void. If the prosecution is smart, this is where they'll concentrate their efforts. If they want to be stupid, they will push the hate/race/profiling agenda, which will fail.

I love how everyone speculates, though, when it is obvious that all the evidence and eye-witness testimony is NOT public. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman's story is not all together factual. Some of the 911 calls dispute what he said, as well as Martin's girlfriend.

We'll see what evidence comes out in the trial, if there is one.

Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake.

countrygun
04-25-2012, 23:18
If the prosecution can prove that Zimmerman caused the fight because of a confrontation and didn't get blindsided on the way back to his car (like he claims), then he has no right to claim self defense, and therefore stand your ground is null and void. If the prosecution is smart, this is where they concentrate their efforts. If they want to be stupid, they will push the hate/race/profiling agenda, which will fail.

I love how everyone speculates, though, when it is obvious that all the evidence and eye-witness testimony is NOT public. But my gut tells me that Zimmerman's story is not all together factual. Some of the 911 calls dispute what he said, as well as Martin's girlfriend.

We'll see what evidence comes out in the trial, if there is one.

Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake.


Well of course there was a "confrontation" a fight is a form of confrontation. :upeyes: Bear in mind there was ample opportunity for Martin to have called the police and reported a suspicious person following him, which is what a reasonable and prudent person would do. Come to think of it, one person DID call the police and report someone they thought was suspicious. You folks that seem so interested in convicting Zimmerman might sound reasonable IF Martin had called the cops, and Zimmerman hadn't. Do not forget that the police DID investigate this incident and they and the prosecutor were satisfied that no case existed and it is the media. media whores, and politicians (I know, redundancy) who have brought about the legal situation, not for justice but to curry favor. Remember, this case is probably going to revolve around the actions of someone who DIDN'T think calling the police was the way to handle the situation.

WinterWizard
04-26-2012, 01:48
Well of course there was a "confrontation" a fight is a form of confrontation. :upeyes: Bear in mind there was ample opportunity for Martin to have called the police and reported a suspicious person following him, which is what a reasonable and prudent person would do. Come to think of it, one person DID call the police and report someone they thought was suspicious. You folks that seem so interested in convicting Zimmerman might sound reasonable IF Martin had called the cops, and Zimmerman hadn't. Do not forget that the police DID investigate this incident and they and the prosecutor were satisfied that no case existed and it is the media. media whores, and politicians (I know, redundancy) who have brought about the legal situation, not for justice but to curry favor. Remember, this case is probably going to revolve around the actions of someone who DIDN'T think calling the police was the way to handle the situation.

I was referring to the actions by either person that led to the fight, not the fight itself.

And the lead detective initially wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter and signed an affidavit to that effect. The state attorney (I believe) instructed him not to after a few hour's worth of investigation, ignoring possible evidence and eye-witness testimony. The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.

I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."

The fact is, until the trial is over (if there is one), and all the facts and evidence are public record, no one can speak intelligently on the matter.

Dexters
04-26-2012, 07:27
I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."



"I love how everyone" or "I find it funny" are usually tip offs that the writer is going to say the obvious. And, you do not fail us with "jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public." Of course, people can only offer opinion on what has been made public. They can not make opinions on info they do not know.

countrygun
04-26-2012, 09:53
I was referring to the actions by either person that led to the fight, not the fight itself.

And the lead detective initially wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter and signed an affidavit to that effect. The state attorney (I believe) instructed him not to after a few hour's worth of investigation, ignoring possible evidence and eye-witness testimony. The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.

I love how everyone wants to jump to a conclusion when not nearly all of the evidence has been made public. You have probably half the facts or less, therefore your opinions are half-baked. A wise man once said, "An uninformed opinion is worth nothing."

The fact is, until the trial is over (if there is one), and all the facts and evidence are public record, no one can speak intelligently on the matter.


Talk about assumptions and spinning the situation to meet a preconceived conclusion.

Your statement implies that an investigator knows more about what meets legal standards than the prosecutor in that jurisdiction. In my area it is the District Attorney that makes that call, not a Detective.

Your overall naivette about the purpose of the new "special" prosecution team is rather telling, as to you experience or awareness of such an "operation". How many times, in high profile cases has a " States attorney" or even a Federal Attorney been brought in that DIDN'T result in a trial, genenrally based on an allegeded "new view" or "Fresh evidence"? These are Dog and Pony shows to appease a segment of the population and actually represent a misuse of our criminal justice system for political purposes. There have been dozens of cases, since this incident, of Blacks shooting Blacks all over the Country, but those case won't get "Special Prosecutors" and "State's Attorneys and Investigators" because Al Sharpton and the media don't care about them.

This incident WAS handled according to the law, and you really should have watched the lead investigtator's testimony at the bail hearing for Zimmerman. Talk about shakey grounds for prosecution.

WinterWizard
04-26-2012, 21:37
Talk about assumptions and spinning the situation to meet a preconceived conclusion.

Your statement implies that an investigator knows more about what meets legal standards than the prosecutor in that jurisdiction. In my area it is the District Attorney that makes that call, not a Detective.

Your overall naivette about the purpose of the new "special" prosecution team is rather telling, as to you experience or awareness of such an "operation". How many times, in high profile cases has a " States attorney" or even a Federal Attorney been brought in that DIDN'T result in a trial, genenrally based on an allegeded "new view" or "Fresh evidence"? These are Dog and Pony shows to appease a segment of the population and actually represent a misuse of our criminal justice system for political purposes. There have been dozens of cases, since this incident, of Blacks shooting Blacks all over the Country, but those case won't get "Special Prosecutors" and "State's Attorneys and Investigators" because Al Sharpton and the media don't care about them.

This incident WAS handled according to the law, and you really should have watched the lead investigtator's testimony at the bail hearing for Zimmerman. Talk about shakey grounds for prosecution.


http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/121/fredthompsoncopy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/813/fredthompsoncopy.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

RDW
04-28-2012, 17:14
I think Gabe makes some interesting points:


http://www.warriortalknews.com/2012/04/commentary-the-zimmerman-martin-shooting.html


I like his line "Captain America, Defender of the Innocent" because so many HCP holders think it's a badge.

You pay attention to that CRIMINAL?! :faint:

badge315
05-10-2012, 10:05
The fact that the new prosecution team had probable cause to arrest and charge with 2nd degree murder after a proper, thorough investigation proves that the initial handling of the case was bungled, unless you want to accuse the new prosecution team of of fabricating evidence or not knowing the law.

That's pretty much what Alan Dershowitz has said...who is decidedly not on the side of gun owners, and is certainly a more accomplished jurist than Angela Corey.

WinterWizard
05-10-2012, 14:20
That's pretty much what Alan Dershowitz has said...who is decidedly not on the side of gun owners, and is certainly a more accomplished jurist than Angela Corey.

Which is why, in one my previous posts, I said, "Prosecution also made the mistake of charging with 2nd degree murder, which is way harder to prove than manslaughter. Epic mistake."

I agree with Dershowitz on the 2nd degree charge. Should have been manslaughter. The prosecution is going after the wrong angle in this case. They are attacking the profiling angle. They should be, from the start, going after the illegal use of deadly force angle.

There is no doubt that Zimmerman was getting beat down by Martin. But what caused the fight is the issue, not who had the upper hand in the fight. Like I've said before, if Zimmerman was indeed the instigator, you forfeit your claim to self defense at that point, along with stand your ground.

badge315
05-10-2012, 15:51
I don't see how you can charge somebody with manslaughter when they've already stated that they shot the other person intentionally.:dunno:

WinterWizard
05-10-2012, 16:05
Voluntary manslaughter...

Alizard
05-11-2012, 13:43
Politics in action: witnesses on the scene confirmed Zimmerman was the guy on the ground crying for help while Martin (on top) pounded his skull into the ground. That's the reason Martin was not initially charged. Had it not gone public, that would have been the end of it. Now the "special investigator" card is played so they can charge him and drag him through a trial where he will be acquitted.... and then they can blame the jury. What a crock.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-killing/2012/03/26/id/433912

Trayvon Martin Death: Police Say Witnesses Back Zimmerman's Story
The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that Trayvon Martin decked George Zimmerman with one punch and then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk, according to a newly released version of the events that led up to the 17-year-old’s death.


Read more on Newsmax.com: Trayvon Martin Death: Police Say Witnesses Back Zimmerman's Story (http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-killing/2012/03/26/id/433912#ixzz1uamYC7ct)
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now! (http://polls.newsmax.com/repeal/?PROMO_CODE=B683-1)
Trayvon Martin: Second Eye Witness Saw Zimmerman on Ground Moaning Crying for Help – Zimmerman: Martin Tried to Take His Gun

March 26, 2012
By Maggie (http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/author/maggiesnotebook/)
A 13-year-old boy, whose name I will not print, although it is out there online now, has come forward in the Trayvon Martin – George Zimmerman case.
http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-second-eye-witness-saw-zimmerman-on-ground-moaning-crying-for-help-zimmerman-martin-tried-to-take-his-gun/



As the investigation into the investigation of the killing of Trayvon Martin continues, new facts are beginning to surface, and the Fox affiliate in Orlando found an anonymous witness (http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012) who spoke to them in George Zimmerman‘s defense, saying he saw the man who was mostly the aggressor in the struggle fall on the grass, dead. Tampa Bay’s Fox 13 reported Friday that the witness, who agreed only to be identified as “John,” saw the struggle and it was his testimony the police used to let Zimmerman go free (John spoke to Fox 13′s Orlando Affiliate, Fox 35 on February 27th). His statements to the cops were instrumental because Sanford police say those screams you hear, the anchor notes, are Zimmerman’s and not Martin’s. http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anonymous-witness-police-used-tells-local-news-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman/

concretefuzzynuts
05-12-2012, 19:10
Politics in action: witnesses on the scene confirmed Zimmerman was the guy on the ground crying for help while Martin (on top) pounded his skull into the ground. That's the reason Martin was not initially charged. Had it not gone public, that would have been the end of it. Now the "special investigator" card is played so they can charge him and drag him through a trial where he will be acquitted.... and then they can blame the jury. What a crock.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/trayvon-martin-zimmerman-killing/2012/03/26/id/433912


http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-second-eye-witness-saw-zimmerman-on-ground-moaning-crying-for-help-zimmerman-martin-tried-to-take-his-gun/



http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anonymous-witness-police-used-tells-local-news-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman/

Why don't you wait until all the evidence is presented before posting your slanted opinion, Alitard. You people who cast final judgement on cases before trial make me sick.

Alizard
05-13-2012, 00:13
Why don't you wait until all the evidence is presented before posting your slanted opinion, Alitard. You people who cast final judgement on cases before trial make me sick.

OK, so my opinion is SLANTED because it is based on the eyewitness accounts? And I really feel I must compliment you for all the stunning rebuttal to my "slanted" sources which I posted. Oh wait... that's right, you didn't actually post anything, did you? just personal slander and spewing BS.

I don't know what specific mental problems you have, and I honestly don't care, but I am obligated to advise you of something:

on the internet, everybody is allowed to post their opinions. If that distresses you to the point you feel you must descend to personal attacks on others, why don't you go (deleted)

concretefuzzynuts
05-13-2012, 03:59
OK, so my opinion is SLANTED because it is based on the eyewitness accounts? And I really feel I must compliment you for all the stunning rebuttal to my "slanted" sources which I posted. Oh wait... that's right, you didn't actually post anything, did you? just personal slander and spewing BS.

I don't know what specific mental problems you have, and I honestly don't care, but I am obligated to advise you of something:

on the internet, everybody is allowed to post their opinions. If that distresses you to the point you feel you must descend to personal attacks on others, why don't you go (deleted)

just personal slander and spewing BS.

badge315
05-13-2012, 07:16
just personal slander and spewing BS.

You're the one who cast the first stone. :upeyes:

Why don't you wait until all the evidence is presented before posting your slanted opinion, Alitard. You people who cast final judgement on cases before trial make me sick.

countrygun
05-13-2012, 08:48
Why don't you wait until all the evidence is presented before posting your slanted opinion, Alitard. You people who cast final judgement on cases before trial make me sick.


Well, you didn't wait for the evidence to be presented at trail before declaring someone else's post to be slanted. People who get on an internet forum and express their opinions, of other people getting on an internet forum and expressing their opinions, make me sick.

concretefuzzynuts
05-13-2012, 09:27
Well people getting on the internet posting their opinion about someone posting an opinion about someone else who was posting an opinion about an opinion someone else posted.....

Peace Officer
05-13-2012, 11:35
If I have to look at or hear from the likes of Obama, Jackson and Sharpton on this subject I think I am going to crap my pants!

Providence
05-13-2012, 12:02
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#comment-103696 (http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#comment-103696)

Very interesting read. Takes a while, but he connects the dots.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 13:39
Well people getting on the internet posting their opinion about someone posting an opinion about someone else who was posting an opinion about an opinion someone else posted.....Actually, I posted sources that contained the latest information from eyewitness accounts which is not just "people getting on the internet posting their opinions". It's people who like you who post ZERO factual information and just endless whining and personal attacks because they don't like the facts but can't refute them who are wasting oxygen. Every post you put up is the same, just more whining, zero contribution to the thread.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 13:40
If I have to look at or hear from the likes of Obama, Jackson and Sharpton on this subject I think I am going to crap my pants! What's bad is that after Zimmerman is acquitted in state court, he will probably be tried for federal civil rights charges in federal court because it's an election year. I feel sorry for the guy.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 13:42
just personal slander and spewing BS.Something we agree on, that describes your posts perfectly.

concretefuzzynuts
05-14-2012, 14:11
Something we agree on, that describes your posts perfectly.

Bothers you doesn't it Alitard.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 14:46
Bothers you doesn't it Alitard.There is something genuinely wrong with you. Idiotic posts don't bother me at all, but you really do have a problem.

You just keep spewing crap and posting nothing. have at it. If you actualluy had a single intelligent bit of information to support your original false statement (that my post or sources were "slanted") you would have posted it by now.

But just more of the same old crap. Personal attacks, slander and garbage.

What seems to bother you is that everybody is free to post their opinions..... that and the fact you just got your ass kicked.

I'm not going to waste any more time on you. Let somebody else drive the short yellow bus for you.

concretefuzzynuts
05-14-2012, 14:51
There is something genuinely wrong with you. Idiotic posts don't bother me at all, but you really do have a problem.

You just keep spewing crap and posting nothing. have at it. If you actualluy had a single intelligent bit of information to support your original false statement (that my post or sources were "slanted") you would have posted it by now.

But just more of the same old crap. Personal attacks, slander and garbage.

What seems to bother you is that everybody is free to post their opinions..... that and the fact you just got your ass kicked.

I'm not going to waste any more time on you. Let somebody else drive the short yellow bus for you.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: :supergrin:

You are hilarious. Go read your past posts on other threads. You spew left wing venom at anyone who has a differing opinion. And to have a socialist like you tell me there is something wrong with me is a compliment. Thank you. Now run along.

Bilbo Bagins
05-15-2012, 07:55
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/04/21/update-10-part-2-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-deedee-reveals-the-false-truths/#comment-103696

This blog basically puts together all the pieces about Trayvon Martin's girlfriend and it pretty much turns out that she's not his girlfriend, was not devastated, not hospitalized and it's all a giant smoke screen by the Martin's attorneys and that the Martin family is as much a victim of what's going on as is Zimmerman.

So I basically blew off your blog link just based on the title and the graphics involved. I really hate how partisan politics picks a subjects and makes it 100% "for" or "against" just based if you lean left or right.

However I did finally read it, and while some very minor things can be question, it was a pretty good investigation, and answered a lot of questions for me, in terms of how this peticular story somehow got national media attention, and how someone who was initially found innocent is suddenly back under investigation.

I really think when Zimmerman is finally found innocent, the info from this article should be used in his lawsuit against the law firm that framed him, and the black activitist and news media that ruined his life.

So my question is this. Isn't it illegal to come into a criminal investigation and tamper with and destroy evidence. Isn't that what the law firm is doing, scrubbing all the internet social media with Martin and this female friend? Isn't that what the news media did by changing the 911 audio tape of Zimmerman, basically swaying potential jurors?

TBO
05-15-2012, 23:06
Court records say George Zimmerman had multiple injuries after Trayvon Martin's fatal shooting


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15/records-detail-george-zimmerman-medical-injuries/#ixzz1v0RLYROM

Quiet
05-16-2012, 02:59
Some local FL news agencies are reporting that the...

... medical report for Zimmerman indicates he had a broken nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, bruises on his back and a split lip.

... autopsy report for Martin indicates he sustained a single gunshot wound and had bruised knuckles on both his hands. He had no other injuries.

Bilbo Bagins
05-16-2012, 07:00
Some local FL news agencies are reporting that the...

... medical report for Zimmerman indicates he had a broken nose, two black eyes, lacerations to the back of his head, bruises on his back and a split lip.

... autopsy report for Martin indicates he sustained a single gunshot wound and had bruised knuckles on both his hands. He had no other injuries.

+1 so why hasn't the case been dropped yet?

I think when this is all over Zimmerman will be a millionaire after all the civil lawsuit settlements.

IndyGunFreak
05-16-2012, 10:09
Court records say George Zimmerman had multiple injuries after Trayvon Martin's fatal shooting


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15/records-detail-george-zimmerman-medical-injuries/#ixzz1v0RLYROM


It's interesting though, when I clicked on a news article on a competing network(MSNBC) the article said that "no new information had been revealed from the documents"...

The far left media is attempting to spin this for Trayvon... justice be damned.

Not saying I don't have some issues with what happened that night, but the more I watch some of the "far lefters" attack Zimmerman with what turns out to be false information, the more I believe his story.

countrygun
05-16-2012, 10:37
Once they brought in the "State's Attorney General"s office it became an exercise in "Ex Deux Machina". No matter what the evidence said, no matter the proper decision by the local DA, there HAD to be a trial, or rather "a farcical spectacle and circus for the masses"

concretefuzzynuts
05-16-2012, 11:56
Once they brought in the "State's Attorney General"s office it became an exercise in "Ex Deux Machina". No matter what the evidence said, no matter the proper decision by the local DA, there HAD to be a trial, or rather "a farcical spectacle and circus for the masses"

Well said.

Deus ex machina

countrygun
05-18-2012, 11:43
Well said.

Deus ex machina

Thanks for the correction, my Latin has gotten rusty without use.

concretefuzzynuts
05-18-2012, 13:06
More

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/18/trayvon-martin-surveillance-video-zimmerman?newsfeed=true

Fred Hansen
05-18-2012, 14:48
Once they brought in the "State's Attorney General"s office it became an exercise in "Ex Deux Machina". No matter what the evidence said, no matter the proper decision by the local DA, there HAD to be a trial, or rather "a farcical spectacle and circus for the masses"The proof of that is in the lack of a Grand Jury. If Floriduh's Special Persecution Czarina had any real evidence against Zimmerman, she could have had a Grand Jury indictment in record time.

Sadly, Floriduh retains its unenviable record as America's longest running idiot step-cousin.

countrygun
05-18-2012, 15:00
The proof of that is in the lack of a Grand Jury. If Floriduh's Special Persecution Czarina had any real evidence against Zimmerman, she could have had a Grand Jury indictment in record time.

Sadly, Floriduh retains its unenviable record as America's longest running idiot step-cousin.


Indeed. A prosecutor can get a GJ to indict a ham sandwich.

ANYTIME a prosecutor avoids a GJ it is highly suspicious, the same with "secret" GJs where their case WON'T stand up against the GJ getting to question the "suspect".

Not giving the accused a chance to face a Grand Jury makes a mockery of the whole system.

concretefuzzynuts
05-18-2012, 16:23
Whole lotta speculating going on. A lot of raised blood pressure, fingers typing so fast words are just stringing together making little sense. We are a divided nation. The Reverend Al Charlatan and Messy Jackson have successfully spread enough hate to blind our eyes to the problems that are ruining our economy, dividing the people and heat up black and white race wars. They are the only two winners out of this mess.

Meanwhile the socialist and chief Obama met with the new Socialist president of France Philippe Poutou of the New Anticapitalist Party. Philippe Poutou said he and our liar and chief share a similar view on how to run our economy. You should be afraid.

NDCent
05-18-2012, 16:58
A throw down weapon would have prevented this. :whistling:

Alizard
05-19-2012, 14:35
Not giving the accused a chance to face a Grand Jury makes a mockery of the whole system.It's especially sleazy in cases where the LE's and DA have already passed on the case based on the evidence they have seen and they have to bring in a Special Political Prosecutor to pick up the case.

M&P Shooter
07-06-2012, 13:46
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif
COME ON MAN! Have some dam respect for Trayvon!
Lets have a moment of silence for poor Trayvon Martin:whistling:
stupid fat guy makes HUGE FART!! - YouTube

OctoberRust
08-09-2012, 09:08
http://i.imgur.com/wCxiT.gif


Classic gif. :rofl:

Gray_Rider
08-11-2012, 21:01
Too cute M&P shooter. There is "more truth than poetry" in that little gif.

The very fact that Travon was shot in the chest at point blank range while beating a supine Zimmerman is irrefutable. If it was a different story, the cops would have spotted it in a nano second and the after shooting report done by anyone worthy of picking up a scalpel shows the same thing. You can't fake it very easily if at all. The wound to Travon's body shows EXACTLY how the shooting went down and where his arms were at the time of the shooting. Read any of Mas Ayoob's articles concerning this in his excellent articles concerning actual shootings. For example, if you had your hands up when you were shot it shows in the gunshot wounds.

Gray_Rider