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Bolster
03-30-2012, 23:07
Posting for comments & criticism from those more experienced than I (which would be just about everyone on this forum):

I'm late to the party getting some long-lasting anti-starvation food preps together. Better late than never, eh? Finally scored 2 Gamma lids from HD (that's all they had!), so went out and spent $50 for long-term-storage groceries. The following dry fits in 2x 5-gal buckets, with the liquid items scheduled for a 3rd bucket.

The date you see at the end is Bradley's* proposed shelf life. You'll notice I concentrated on stocking only long-shelf-life items (with the exception of oil and flour).

Beans, Pinto (2x2 lbs, 1 yr)
Bouillon Cubes (1 jar, 2 yr)
Cocoa (8 oz, indefinite)
Flour, White (1x5 lbs, 6 mo)
Molasses (1x12 oz, 2 yr)
Oil, Canola (48 oz, 6 mo)
Pasta, Spaghetti (5 pkg, 2 yr)
Rice, White (14 lbs, 2 yr)
Salt (1.5 lbs, 2 yr)
Soda, Baking (2x1 lbs, 2 yr)
Sugar, Gran. (3x4 lbs, 2 yr)
Vanilla Extract (1 bot, 2 yr)
Vodka (1 bot, indefinite)

Totals 77,500 Calories...alone, would keep my family going for 2 weeks in terms of calories, although nutrition wise it would need supplementation.

This list does not, of course, count the contents of our pantry...all our canned food is there...so it's not trying to be balanced nutrition...this is just an emergency backup cache in the closet, which will be rotated in and replaced as we go.

However, it might stand in as the food that made it into the car if there were an immediate emergency evacuation...Hm, wonder if I should put a jar of vitamin C in there...

Comments, criticism...?

(*Bradley = Handbook to Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family.)

Protus
03-31-2012, 06:37
sugar and salt wont go bad.
If you have the gamma lid, your shelf life should be longer. The rice ,beans, etc will last 2-10 yrs ( this is dependent on temp,how its stored ,packed etc).
i kinda find it funny the guy has 1 yr on some things( like salt , and 2+ yrs on items like cocoa.

something i wrote about what your doing( starting with some basic LTS to supplement your stocks)

http://pawmovies.blogspot.com/
Short term vs Long term which one ?.
Many that are just starting to become preparedness minded are more than likely shocked at first by the amount of information about preparedness available to them on the web . One of the major preparations one will spend the most time on is food storage. There are many sources for information about this out there. From blogs like this one, to web forums to actual food storage studies done by universities. So who is correct,which one is right for you or me?

I have my opinion on what folks should stock in their food preps, and it may be different from Joe over in Denver, who is different than Dan over in Miami. But the main thing that anyone starting to prep should remember is to make a plan first and stick to it. One of the basic ideas on food storage is the buy what you eat concept. This is a very good concept for those just starting out or for those planning for a short term event. It can be helpful and yet flawed at the same time , I will go into that later. The other Basic idea is buy as much as you can store. Long term storage of dry goods ranging from freeze dried goods, to whole grains and bulk packed food is very common these days and has many benifits.

So which one is better suited for you. It is hard for me to say as it varies per person what their plans are, budget and storage space. But this is how i feel about food storage. Again this is just opinion, and you know what they say about that!

Short term food storage in my eyes is largely based in the buy what you eat concept. This is where the survivalist or preparedness minded individual( for those PC types out there) will extend their normal shopping to add more to their pantry at home. Normally these goods vary from can goods to dry foods that have a shelf life of 1-5 years. This is a good way to go for those just starting as it is not as intimidating as trying to buy or pack 600 lbs of rice and beans at once ! The short term plan works great as a starting point, but as you progress in your preperations you will see the short comings of it and planning around it. One of the major downfalls I feel in a short term food storage program is that you are left stuck in short term mode. This means if the event your planning for last longer than what have planned for you are left up that creek with no paddle more or less. The other major downfall is you have to rotate the stock more often than LTS( long term storage). This can be a positive as well. It lends you to rotate back into your current pantry and shelves. This will save you money at first, as you continue this program you will start to lose money as the cost of food increases .The major positive side is that folks are continuously updating their stocks and keeping food in their home.The major reason STS(short term storage) shouldn't be a choice for anyone trying to prepare for any event longer than 6 weeks in my view is that I feel the money and space used for STS would be better used in LTS. I do however feel that STS is a vital part of a well rounded LTS plan.

How can the STS plan work into and be a vital part of a LTS plan? Well for one, most people can't go out and dump a few hundred or few thousand dollars on LTS food preps all at once. Some can and great for them. But for the majority of folks they will start at the bench and work themselves up to 1st line pitchers ,if you get my drift. What will you do with your STS now that you've progressed into wanting to get started into a LTS plan , well keep it. You may wonder why i just said that. Well there is no reason not to keep a basic well stocked pantry at home. A large LTS program doesn't mean you should slack off on keeping your pantry stocked. When you have a 3 day power outage do you want to have to start opening up #10 cans and buckets of sealed grains to make meals for those 3 days. You can but why would you ?
This is why i feel that on top of your LTS plan you should have a good STS plan in place. The STS preps will keep you grounded while you grow in your LTS program and size. Once your LTS program is at the level you feel is adequate for your plans, it can be left untouched until a major emergency or for many,many years down the road.

Now lets go into what LTS storage involves. In our P.A.W movie series on You tube about LTS and STS programs we show some LTS preps and what to expect from them. and how to pack them . LTS will take up a lot more storage space than a STS program. This is a given since it is for the Long Term. But if your making that 1st step dont be afraid of that. Even a extended STS program can be border line LTS and still not take up to much space if planned correctly. For the most part LTS preps will be packed in #10 cans or buckets or if space is available 55 gallon plastic food grade drums. But it doesn't end there. LTS involves canning and preserving your own food if you are in a position to produce your own food as well . That is a whole different story there and the reality of a true LTS program and planning!

Normally a LTS program is planned around the 1 yr per person mark. This can be intimidating at first but once it is shown how easy it is to pack and store it makes sense why so many people are doing it. A LTS program on avg should last 15-30yrs before rotation if packed correctly. Again if you watch our you tube channel you will see some real results of some LTS that are at the 20 yr mark and some that was not even stored as it should have been that is still good to eat! So compared to a STS program we have a rotation time that's many years past the 1-5 year mark that the STS plan has. That's a major positive in my book, as you are not constantly having to rotate and re buy new food stocks. In a LTS program you may have bought rice at 10$ per 50lbs 3 years ago and now 3 years later it is 26$ . If this was based on the STS plan(which rice can sometimes be stored ST with out any special packing needs.) we would have lost money rotating that food along with having to replace it. Break that down to even what a can of soup cost 3 years ago to now! This is the main area besides rotation were a LTS program excels ahead of the STS plan. If you chose the STS program remember that with in 1-5 years you will have to replace or rotate out your food items. This will cost you twice as much money than if you would have started an LTS. Now, i am not saying that a family or person should at day 1 run out and buy 800lbs of rice. Start small and with in your budget, but pack it correctly at the start and you can then merge it into a LTS program down the road with out worry. There is a set of movies on our channel that shows just what problems may arise if you do not pack correctly for STS or LTS. The rice shown in those movies could have been merged into our LTS program, but now it is wasted! Proper packing would have solved that and we would not have to rotate or purchase new rice for our STS program! Even 20 lbs packed right, is cheaper than replacing it in 5 yrs due to bugs,mold, or rot!

So that is just a few of the positives and negatives of LTS and STS. What i have tried to show you is that they go hand in hand for a well balanced food storage program! The LTS plan is not perfect. In a long term event you really need to be self reliant in your food production. This has been proven 10 fold over in long term events across the world . Just like STS supplements LTS, LTS must be supplemented by gardens,farming, raising livestock to really make it worth it's while in an long term event. The major thing is do not sell yourself short in your planning. Start with what you can, and grow from there. It is you and your families well being during an event that is important. From the 3-4 day hurricane kit to a full 1 yr supply for four ! Plan,prep and learn!

DScottHewitt
03-31-2012, 08:04
Posting for comments & criticism from those more experienced than I (which would be just about everyone on this forum):

I'm late to the party getting some long-lasting anti-starvation food preps together. Better late than never, eh? Finally scored 2 Gamma lids from HD (that's all they had!), so went out and spent $50 for long-term-storage groceries. The following dry fits in 2x 5-gal buckets, with the liquid items scheduled for a 3rd bucket.

The date you see at the end is Bradley's* proposed shelf life. You'll notice I concentrated on stocking only long-shelf-life items (with the exception of oil and flour).

Beans, Pinto (2x2 lbs, 1 yr)
Bouillon Cubes (1 jar, 2 yr)
Cocoa (8 oz, indefinite)
Flour, White (1x5 lbs, 6 mo)
Molasses (1x12 oz, 2 yr)
Oil, Canola (48 oz, 6 mo)
Pasta, Spaghetti (5 pkg, 2 yr)
Rice, White (14 lbs, 2 yr)
Salt (1.5 lbs, 2 yr)
Soda, Baking (2x1 lbs, 2 yr)
Sugar, Gran. (3x4 lbs, 2 yr)
Vanilla Extract (1 bot, 2 yr)
Vodka (1 bot, indefinite)

Totals 77,500 Calories...alone, would keep my family going for 2 weeks in terms of calories, although nutrition wise it would need supplementation.

This list does not, of course, count the contents of our pantry...all our canned food is there...so it's not trying to be balanced nutrition...this is just an emergency backup cache in the closet, which will be rotated in and replaced as we go.

However, it might stand in as the food that made it into the car if there were an immediate emergency evacuation...Hm, wonder if I should put a jar of vitamin C in there...

Comments, criticism...?

(*Bradley = Handbook to Practical Disaster Preparedness for the Family.)

Properly stored, beans and rice last forever, if kept dry. As you can, try to get a bucket {at least} of EACH with a dessicant pack in each bucket. Should be able to get one of those huge bags in each bucket.... ?25 Pounds?

Protus
03-31-2012, 08:15
Properly stored, beans and rice last forever, if kept dry. As you can, try to get a bucket {at least} of EACH with a dessicant pack in each bucket. Should be able to get one of those huge bags in each bucket.... ?25 Pounds?

you will get 30-35+ lbs of rice in a 5 gallon bucket and around the same for beans ( this of course depends on the beans- we store black beans and mixed beans)

Bolster
03-31-2012, 08:24
Thanks for the replies. I forgot to add that both buckets have a medium-sized desiccant package inside.

My immediate goal is to be able to eat for 30 days from stored food. I need to go inventory the calories in the pantry.

I was a little offput by the price of beans in the local grocery store, @ 3.50/ 2 lbs, they shouldn't cost that much, should they?

gimmejr
03-31-2012, 08:49
I was a little offput by the price of beans in the local grocery store, @ 3.50/ 2 lbs, they shouldn't cost that much, should they?


Go to Costco and buy the bulk bag. I went to a couple of the Mexican grocery stores here in my area and was suprised that they dont carry larger then 5lb bags.

DScottHewitt
03-31-2012, 09:23
Thanks for the replies. I forgot to add that both buckets have a medium-sized desiccant package inside.

My immediate goal is to be able to eat for 30 days from stored food. I need to go inventory the calories in the pantry.

I was a little offput by the price of beans in the local grocery store, @ 3.50/ 2 lbs, they shouldn't cost that much, should they?

Bulk bags at Wally World are your friend.

bdcochran
03-31-2012, 09:24
I want you to pretend that you live in the Silverlake District of Los Angeles - about where Bolster lives. Population density is about 31,000 to the square mile.

You can walk to the LA River, the nearest water. You can walk to Griffith Park and gather fuel. Unfortunately, you will have to filter, refilter and boil the water before drinking. Griffith Park has brush and some trees. You cross your fingers and hope that it isn't burned out.

The local water comes from an aqueduct. No one uses the old backyard incinerator that were banned and removed 30 years ago. No one has a large propane tank in his backyard.

The foregoing is the reality that faces urban dwellers. It also largely faces rural dwellers, but they daydream a bit more than the urban guys.

It is the reality that faces me, except that the nearest drainage water is about 1.5 miles away and the population density is 13,000 to the square mile.

1. you aren't going to cook indoors or very long outdoors if shtf. My stove and oven don't work when the gas and electricity are off. Sure, I have tanks of propane. However, I certainly don't have 30 days worth.

2. the water that I have is limited to the stuff stored in barrels behind the garage. Sure, there is a swimming pool a block away, but I can't count on it being available. Wash dishes? Nah! Use a lot of water cooking? Well . . .

Despite having the "buckets of food", I certainly don't want to be in the dilemma of having to use them for survival in the first 30 days. This is why I tilted towards, mres, jerky, canned fruit, canned meats, canned vegetables, dried fruits, hardtack for the first 30 days.

Virtually all the scenarios fail to contemplate that you, your companion or children will be injured or sick during those early stages of shtf. In those circumstances, you aren't going to be making flapjacks, bread or meals requiring preparation.

Now, I will give a converse. The Japanese troops in WW2 did individual or small group meal preparations. They largely carried pre-cooked rice balls supplemented with local greens. American civil war soldiers largely lived off hardtack and salt pork. Sailors lived off the same. None of these people were 6 feet tall and weighing 240 pounds (hint that you are going to need a lot of food).

R_W
03-31-2012, 09:35
Do you have recipes figured out to use those quantities? If you do, print them and the meal plan and stick them in the bucket. If you don't, figure it out!

Figure out how much water you need to go along with those recipes + drinking and store it.

Throw a bottle of multivitamins, pain killers, and immodium in there. Maybe a jar of gatorade powder, lemonade, tea, coffee, etc.--whatever comfort drink you need (besides the vodka). And you may want some pepper or hotsauce or spice of some kind.

Stonewall308
03-31-2012, 18:46
Can anyone direct me to the best place to get mylar bags, buckets, oxygen depleting packets?

Bolster
03-31-2012, 19:08
Can anyone direct me to the best place to get ..., buckets, ...?

Buckets and screw lids at Home Depot. Get the white "food safe" ARGEE buckets and the Gamma lids. Considerably less $ than other sources.

Protus
03-31-2012, 19:19
Can anyone direct me to the best place to get mylar bags, buckets, oxygen depleting packets?

ive gotten 90% of my buckets from deli's, firehouse subs ( 2$ w/ lid). My mylar and o2's all came from wendy mae's /frugals.
BUt same stuff cane be had from sorbent systems as well. Lots of places deal in that stuff now.. 6-8 yrs ago..not so many.....

lawman800
04-01-2012, 05:19
I want you to pretend that you live in the Silverlake District of Los Angeles - about where Bolster lives. Population density is about 31,000 to the square mile.

You can walk to the LA River, the nearest water. You can walk to Griffith Park and gather fuel. Unfortunately, you will have to filter, refilter and boil the water before drinking. Griffith Park has brush and some trees. You cross your fingers and hope that it isn't burned out.

The local water comes from an aqueduct. No one uses the old backyard incinerator that were banned and removed 30 years ago. No one has a large propane tank in his backyard.

The foregoing is the reality that faces urban dwellers. It also largely faces rural dwellers, but they daydream a bit more than the urban guys.

It is the reality that faces me, except that the nearest drainage water is about 1.5 miles away and the population density is 13,000 to the square mile.

1. you aren't going to cook indoors or very long outdoors if shtf. My stove and oven don't work when the gas and electricity are off. Sure, I have tanks of propane. However, I certainly don't have 30 days worth.

2. the water that I have is limited to the stuff stored in barrels behind the garage. Sure, there is a swimming pool a block away, but I can't count on it being available. Wash dishes? Nah! Use a lot of water cooking? Well . . .

Despite having the "buckets of food", I certainly don't want to be in the dilemma of having to use them for survival in the first 30 days. This is why I tilted towards, mres, jerky, canned fruit, canned meats, canned vegetables, dried fruits, hardtack for the first 30 days.

Virtually all the scenarios fail to contemplate that you, your companion or children will be injured or sick during those early stages of shtf. In those circumstances, you aren't going to be making flapjacks, bread or meals requiring preparation.

Now, I will give a converse. The Japanese troops in WW2 did individual or small group meal preparations. They largely carried pre-cooked rice balls supplemented with local greens. American civil war soldiers largely lived off hardtack and salt pork. Sailors lived off the same. None of these people were 6 feet tall and weighing 240 pounds (hint that you are going to need a lot of food).

I ain't too far from Silverlake... but my suburbs sounds about the same.

Aceman
04-01-2012, 10:33
As important as the food itself is....NONE of that stuff is very consumable without WATER.

I have to say, also, as i completely re-work my garage, I'm gearing up for another level of gear-up in this area.

I'm NOT going to go the "flour/wheat" route. I will however be using this strategy:

MRE's - small supply for immediate use/travel
Dehydrated - for longer term use/possible
Canned Good - for rotation/immediate use/extending staples
Rice/beans - for significant extension of previous items.

for example, add one can of Ravioli to 4 cups of rice. Or mix one freeze dried pack to a bunch of rice and beans.


A lot of rice/beans plus a little something with flavor can go a LONG way. and not be to harsh on the taste buds.

But also, I have 17k gallons of stored water, it rains a lot here, and there is a whole ocean nearby.

Bolster
04-01-2012, 10:48
As important as the food itself is.....

I agree with your analysis. These buckets of mine are intended for #4 on your list, "for extension of previous items," otherwise to be worked into the regular dietary rotation. However, since they are readily portable and stored with the rest of my bug-out-buckets (BOBUs?) in a "load and go in 5 minutes" scenario, they might make it into the truck as food. Not ideal as they all need preparation, which is the downside to having long-shelf-life "real food."

Sure, you could mix four with sugar and wash it down with vodka but unless you're starving on a life raft, who wants to do that?

I do have empty buckets standing by, specifically for the purpose of raiding the pantry and filling them with food that doesn't need preparation (canned and packaged). But if seconds count, these long-storage preps will most likely make the cut, as they're stored with all the other items that are for immediate evacuation.

Yes, water preps are stocked and ready to go, but I didn't mention them here.

Do you seriously have 17,000 gallons of stored water? I thought I'd done well with 100. What does that weigh?

R_W
04-01-2012, 12:28
I have about 2 million gallons stored (it is called a pond). 17,000 would be a nice sized pool or a really big cistern. Real easy to do outside the city.

Chindo18Z
04-01-2012, 13:13
Your bucket list looks good (and I'll not comment on going that route), but I'll offer a suggestion for the "Food in the Vehicle" Course of Action: Consider adding MREs into the mix.

1 x MRE Case (12 meals) = ~17,000+ calories of pre-packaged, ready to go, easy to store/move chow. Two cases takes up about the same (maybe less) vehicle interior volume as two 5 gallon buckets. That's about 34,000 calories from a variety of foodstuffs comprising everything from main meals to snacks and beverages (and each meal has a heater to boot). Less calorie dense and more expensive than the bucket contents, but easier to store, prepare, and carry...and providing greater menu variety.

You could plan on 1 (one) MRE per person per day to augment your buckets. Even without your bucket contents, normal fare could consist of 2 x MRE per day per person (2800 calories). 3 x MREs per day would find you getting fat absent serious physical activity (all-day hiking, infantry work, lumberjacking, etc.). For many years, my normal planning factor for Light Infantry rucksack carry of all chow was 2 meals per day...for days or weeks on end. I never starved, although I eventually dropped weight.

In an emergency, 2 cases of MREs (or as many as you choose to buy/carry) could be quickly stacked into your vehicle with the knowledge that you need nothing additional other than water to drink (or mix with MRE beverage powder). Water is an optional addition with MREs...as they can actually be consumed without H2O.

Naturally, the addition of a gas stove, grill, pots, thermos, canteen cups, etc. would be nice, but not absolutely necessary. But, the MREs give you a quick option for food prep when it's not feasible to establish a camp kitchen, or for when anyone needs to be able to carry individual meals on their person.

For planning purposes, 1 case per adult = 6 man-days of food (nothing else required).

Just something to consider...

sebecman
04-02-2012, 09:59
I want you to pretend that you live in the Silverlake District of Los Angeles - about where Bolster lives. Population density is about 31,000 to the square mile.

You can walk to the LA River, the nearest water. You can walk to Griffith Park and gather fuel. Unfortunately, you will have to filter, refilter and boil the water before drinking. Griffith Park has brush and some trees. You cross your fingers and hope that it isn't burned out.

The local water comes from an aqueduct. No one uses the old backyard incinerator that were banned and removed 30 years ago. No one has a large propane tank in his backyard.

The foregoing is the reality that faces urban dwellers. It also largely faces rural dwellers, but they daydream a bit more than the urban guys.

It is the reality that faces me, except that the nearest drainage water is about 1.5 miles away and the population density is 13,000 to the square mile.

1. you aren't going to cook indoors or very long outdoors if shtf. My stove and oven don't work when the gas and electricity are off. Sure, I have tanks of propane. However, I certainly don't have 30 days worth.

2. the water that I have is limited to the stuff stored in barrels behind the garage. Sure, there is a swimming pool a block away, but I can't count on it being available. Wash dishes? Nah! Use a lot of water cooking? Well . . .

Despite having the "buckets of food", I certainly don't want to be in the dilemma of having to use them for survival in the first 30 days. This is why I tilted towards, mres, jerky, canned fruit, canned meats, canned vegetables, dried fruits, hardtack for the first 30 days.

Virtually all the scenarios fail to contemplate that you, your companion or children will be injured or sick during those early stages of shtf. In those circumstances, you aren't going to be making flapjacks, bread or meals requiring preparation.

Now, I will give a converse. The Japanese troops in WW2 did individual or small group meal preparations. They largely carried pre-cooked rice balls supplemented with local greens. American civil war soldiers largely lived off hardtack and salt pork. Sailors lived off the same. None of these people were 6 feet tall and weighing 240 pounds (hint that you are going to need a lot of food).

If I was to pretend that I lived there then I would pretend I had 4 or 5 hundred pounds of canned meat/veggies/fruit. I would not waste my time with anything that needed to be cooked.

But I don't live there so my plan is not your plan.