If you store gas: When would you use it? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Warp
03-31-2012, 18:56
I think/hope that we all prescribe to the theory that "1/2 is E" and keep our vehicle's fuel tanks from running down too far before refilling.

I think that a fair number of us also store some fuel (usually gasoline, diesel for some) under the premise that it can be used in our vehicles if supply becomes problematic. I'll call this your strategic reserve.

My question is...when would you tap into your strategic reserve?

Here are some scenarios. Keep in mind that this is not an area on which I am more familiar than the average lay person. Feel free to provide feedback or tweaks when necessary. You may also alter scenarios to make them fit your specific situation more closely. (mostly type of work related)

Scenario 1: There is a minor/moderate interruption in your regional supply. Something like we had here in the Southeast a few years ago when a hurricane messed with the gulf coast. Gas is a big thing that everybody talks about. The lines at the pump are long as everybody flocks to them en mass. Some stations run out of gas. The news reports on a few people here and there running out of gas on the side of the road, but these are few and far between and probably their own fault.

Use of your stored fuel would allow you to maintain a normal lifestyle with trips to "unnecessary" (short term) locations such as, for example...the range, the gym, the movies/mall/big boys toy stores/etc. It appears that you will be able to continue necessary driving (work, daycare, groceries, doctor visits, etc) with only mild/moderate inconvenience in acquiring fuel, but going everywhere you want without above-normal restrictions requires dipping into the reserve.

This is expected to be a temporary situation with a duration not more than 1-3 months.

Scenario 2: There is a serious large scale problem. Perhaps there has been a major refinery/distribution line disaster. Restoring previous functionality is going to take something on the order of 3-6 months.

Within a short period of time, perhaps a couple of weeks, there is a serious effort on the part of many businesses to allow some of their employees to work from home some of the time to reduce commuting.

You or a spouse/family member who is covered by your strategic reserves could conceivably continue to go to work as normal, or nearly so, by tapping into the reserves. You/they could also take the option of working from home at times BUT doing so means a reduction in performance/ability and could potentially result in consequences such as reduction in work completed/sales/commission/project completion/etc and being able to be at work is expected to give you/your family member a leg up in the big picture (promotion/networking/completion of goals/etc)

Scenario 3: Extremely serious, MAJOR disruption. Another, large scale war in the Middle East. Major, large scale, coordinated terrorist attacks on infrastructure (refineries, pipelines, ports, shipping, etc). A combination of the above, possibly.

In order to continue working (effectively), going to the grocery store, etc, you will have to tap into your reserves. Failure to do so may result in a substantial loss of income, temporary loss of employment, using alternative forms of transportation for applicable errands (take the bus, assuming available, ride a bicycle when you normally would not, etc).

Although you can technically continue to exist in this state for some time (paying mortgage/rent, buying basic food, etc, but getting down to the bar minimum in expenses) it would be much less bothersome to use your reserves to reduce the impact on your lifestyle.

Scenario 4: Well, in order to get any more dire the use/don't use question probably isn't relevant. Just assume that scenario 4 is the point at which you WILL use your reserve fuel, even if it means using ALL of it, because you have no other serviceable and reasonable option.




In what type/severity of scenario would you consider using any of your fuel, and why?

RWBlue
03-31-2012, 19:52
Why not continuously rotate? Like with food.

Warp
03-31-2012, 20:25
Why not continuously rotate? Like with food.

What are you talking about?

RWBlue
03-31-2012, 21:11
What are you talking about?

Maybe I am thinking about this in too simple a way.
You store however much you store. For this example letís say 12 units.
And for this example, letís assume that fuel will last 12 months.
And there is no such thing as winter fuel and summer fuel, it is just fuel.

What would happen if every month, you used some from your reserve and replenished it?
When there is an event you will have at least 11/12th your total reserve.
When there is an event you will still go out and spend some time in the line so no one will know you have a store (or you will pay a premium for the fuel that is available).
If we are just talking cost, this would be like buying mutual funds for retirement. You would find some times when you get a good deal and some time you would pay a premium. It balances itís self out, but you are 1 year ahead.

This isn't like breaking out the rice and beans that I don't like to eat and hopefully will never eat. This is something that can be rotated through.

Warp
03-31-2012, 21:16
I am not sure if you seriously don't get this or if you are just being difficult.

This is not a rotation question in any way.

If acquisition of fuel is difficult enough (if even possible) that you must use reserves to drive somewhere...you won't be able to just go out and replenish your reserves.

RWBlue
03-31-2012, 21:57
If acquisition of fuel is difficult enough (if even possible) that you must use reserves to drive somewhere...you won't be able to just go out and replenish your reserves.

I think you are over complicating the question by not tapping and rotating.

But beyond that, assuming that no more fuel is coming in, it is a fairly simple question.

I need fuel to do X. Do I think X is important enough to use my remaining fuel?

i.e. I need fuel to drive to work. Is working important enough for me to use my remaining fuel to get there? What are the alternatives? (walking, riding bike, taking the bus which will not be running without fuel, take PTO)

Carry16
03-31-2012, 22:25
I keep 8-10 5 gallon cans in reserve. I have an F150, an HHR, an Astro Van and a Harley Ultra Classic. With the current price of gas I drive the HHR most of the time, and use the HD if we're just going out for a burger. I'm retired so I have the ultimate flexability in adjusting my trips for groceries etc.

I rotate my gas at least once a year and treat it when I refill. In the past I have rotated early because gas may have been cheaper, but that doesn't seem to be a factor lately.

I wish I could siphon gas out of my cars/trucks, but that seems to be a thing of the past. All my vehicles are kept topped off. My mower and tractor are diesel and I stock about 20 gallons which lasts a LONG time.

I've been through 2-3 weeks of no power, and I started using my gas for the generator right away. Fortunately it's always been a short trip to buy more.

I guess what I'm saying in too many words is that depending on the circumstances I can tap into my reserves immediately, and will always adjust my consumption based on circumstances.

cowboy1964
03-31-2012, 22:39
I'd use it when I have to. It's no more complicated than that.

DJ Niner
03-31-2012, 22:39
Warp, I would not tap the reserves for Scenario #1 or #2, but I could see some problems if the person most affected in #2 was my spouse. By my way of thinking, emergency fuel is for emergencies, and nothing in #2 rises to that level, in my opinion. I could definitely see my wife arguing for reserve fuel use to keep her job running smoothly. My argument would be: "Okay, we do that for X amount of time, then WE'RE out like everyone else, now what?"

What happens if we need to
- travel to procure food,
- move/relocate/rescue a relative,
- someone needs emergency medical transport,
- bug-out if our section of town starts to go up in flames
and we've already used-up the "emergency" fuel? And the answer is: whatever we would do THEN (after the reserve was used-up, in scenario #2, above), we will do NOW, and keep the reserve for true emergencies.

However, there might be problems in holding-off too long, as well. If you are nearly the ONLY person/family left that still has fuel, you're going to stand out if you use it for transportation/food-runs/etc. on public roadways. I can see that making you a target for the have-nots, as well as possibly focusing negative attention from the authorities in your direction.

I think before getting to #3/#4, a person might need to consider the difficulties in using fuel for transportation in urban environments, and make a decision to use any/all remaining fuel to bug-out to another (less urban) location BEFORE the situation gets to that point. This could be a really tough call to make at the time, without the benefit of knowing how long the situation will last, or how bad it will ultimately get.

Warp
03-31-2012, 22:47
I'd use it when I have to. It's no more complicated than that.

When do you have to?

How do you determine that?

If you have to use it to keep your job, do you?


Warp, I would not tap the reserves for Scenario #1 or #2, but I could see some problems if the person most affected in #2 was my spouse. By my way of thinking, emergency fuel is for emergencies, and nothing in #2 rises to that level, in my opinion. I could definitely see my wife arguing for reserve fuel use to keep her job running smoothly. My argument would be: "Okay, we do that for X amount of time, then WE'RE out like everyone else, now what?"

What happens if we need to
- travel to procure food,
- move/relocate/rescue a relative,
- someone needs emergency medical transport,
- bug-out if our section of town starts to go up in flames
and we've already used-up the "emergency" fuel? And the answer is: whatever we would do THEN (after the reserve was used-up, in scenario #2, above), we will do NOW, and keep the reserve for true emergencies.

However, there might be problems in holding-off too long, as well. If you are nearly the ONLY person/family left that still has fuel, you're going to stand-out if you use it for transportation/food-runs/etc. on public roadways. I can see that making you a target for the have-nots, as well as possibly focusing negative attention from the authorities in your direction.

I think before getting to #3/#4, a person might need to consider the difficulties in using fuel for transportation in urban environments, and make a decision to use any/all remaining fuel to bug-out to another (less urban) location BEFORE the situation gets to that point. This could be a really tough call to make at the time, without the benefit of knowing how long the situation will last, or how bad it will ultimately get.

Thank you for the response. That (figuring when availability will be back to normal) would be a trick.

kirgi08
04-01-2012, 02:06
I think/hope that we all prescribe to the theory that "1/2 is E" and keep our vehicle's fuel tanks from running down too far before refilling.

3/4 of a tank,it gets around there we start looking.

I think that a fair number of us also store some fuel (usually gasoline, diesel for some) under the premise that it can be used in our vehicles if supply becomes problematic. I'll call this your strategic reserve.

My question is...when would you tap into your strategic reserve?

We don't,our main stores are diesel and kerosene.The reason is longevity.

Here are some scenarios. Keep in mind that this is not an area on which I am more familiar than the average lay person. Feel free to provide feedback or tweaks when necessary. You may also alter scenarios to make them fit your specific situation more closely. (mostly type of work related)

Scenario 1: There is a minor/moderate interruption in your regional supply. Something like we had here in the Southeast a few years ago when a hurricane messed with the gulf coast. Gas is a big thing that everybody talks about. The lines at the pump are long as everybody flocks to them en mass. Some stations run out of gas. The news reports on a few people here and there running out of gas on the side of the road, but these are few and far between and probably their own fault.

In this scenario,we will top of ALL cans.We keep 20 extra 5gal military cans.

Use of your stored fuel would allow you to maintain a normal lifestyle with trips to "unnecessary" (short term) locations such as, for example...the range, the gym, the movies/mall/big boys toy stores/etc. It appears that you will be able to continue necessary driving (work, daycare, groceries, doctor visits, etc) with only mild/moderate inconvenience in acquiring fuel, but going everywhere you want without above-normal restrictions requires dipping into the reserve.

In any type of "disruption" we will stop all jaunts for any reason.My FIL is a gen practice doctor.

This is expected to be a temporary situation with a duration not more than 1-3 months.

We stay put,my wife can work at home,and my work will provide me transport ta get there.I've got 1 great advantage,a cIII friend of mine owns 3 gas stations,we have an agreement,he will sell me fuel at cost.He also runs diesels as his edc.

Scenario 2: There is a serious large scale problem. Perhaps there has been a major refinery/distribution line disaster. Restoring previous functionality is going to take something on the order of 3-6 months.

Within a short period of time, perhaps a couple of weeks, there is a serious effort on the part of many businesses to allow some of their employees to work from home some of the time to reduce commuting.

We lock down and wait.As posted above,my job will provide me transport,they own their own pumps.She can work at home.

You or a spouse/family member who is covered by your strategic reserves could conceivably continue to go to work as normal, or nearly so, by tapping into the reserves. You/they could also take the option of working from home at times BUT doing so means a reduction in performance/ability and could potentially result in consequences such as reduction in work completed/sales/commission/project completion/etc and being able to be at work is expected to give you/your family member a leg up in the big picture (promotion/networking/completion of goals/etc)

Your above is a granted,however,safety first.Kat won't go ta work.

Scenario 3: Extremely serious, MAJOR disruption. Another, large scale war in the Middle East. Major, large scale, coordinated terrorist attacks on infrastructure (refineries, pipelines, ports, shipping, etc). A combination of the above, possibly.

We go lock down,at this phase the BOL becomes #1.

In order to continue working (effectively), going to the grocery store, etc, you will have to tap into your reserves. Failure to do so may result in a substantial loss of income, temporary loss of employment, using alternative forms of transportation for applicable errands (take the bus, assuming available, ride a bicycle when you normally would not, etc).

"Job" ain't worth "life".........

Although you can technically continue to exist in this state for some time (paying mortgage/rent, buying basic food, etc, but getting down to the bar minimum in expenses) it would be much less bothersome to use your reserves to reduce the impact on your lifestyle.

All we own is paid for,we are at home watching this unfold."Lifestyle" be damned,LIFE is the most important thing.

Scenario 4: Well, in order to get any more dire the use/don't use question probably isn't relevant. Just assume that scenario 4 is the point at which you WILL use your reserve fuel, even if it means using ALL of it, because you have no other serviceable and reasonable option.

Nope,we have options.Patience,being the foremost.We have the ability ta wait out the "troubles".




In what type/severity of scenario would you consider using any of your fuel, and why?

G.O.O.D and that's it.'08.


Damned fine thread Warp. :cool:

lawman800
04-01-2012, 05:12
I don't have any stores worth being called strategic. I only have a few 5 gallon jugs around and that won't last a day in my Dodge Ram.

kirgi08
04-01-2012, 05:29
Maybe,youse ought ta.'08.

lawman800
04-01-2012, 05:30
Yes, I do... but when I actually store a few gallons, I use them up and don't always replace when I do. I have 2 empty jugs at my friend's house, maybe when I get them back, I will fill them all up and use them that way.

kirgi08
04-01-2012, 05:48
Not enough.'08. :sad:

MoneyMaker
04-01-2012, 06:03
Cant afford to keep my vehicle tank full now,,,if i run low i just go to the local shopping center and refill it,lol

Kingarthurhk
04-01-2012, 07:32
What are you talking about?

Because stored gas in containers eventually goes bad.

RED64CJ5
04-01-2012, 07:40
I don't feel like I store enough gas to even play this game.

We keep about 25 gallons in rotation and try to keep all our tanks at least 1/2 full...

kirgi08
04-01-2012, 07:52
Because stored gas in containers eventually goes bad.

Stored/sealed underground/with sta-bil ect.The shelf-life extends.'08.

R_W
04-01-2012, 08:48
I don't feel like I store enough gas to even play this game.


Me, too. I used to store a lot more, but I have cut back gas reserves considerably--I got tired of fighting ethanol. I have worked on not needed as much in the first place.

Scenario 1, use up to half of it.

2 & 3, use some. Big shopping trip (if stores are still stocked), work (as little as possible and still keep job), save as much back for food production (tractor and tiller).

4. If it is that bad, it will only be used for food production or procurement. The only vehicles we will run are the corolla and the 100cc motorcycle. Converting the old truck to woodgas would move to top of the list, too.

Kingarthurhk
04-01-2012, 10:35
Stored/sealed underground/with sta-bil ect.The shelf-life extends.'08.

Most people get the plastic jugs and store them that way. That definately has a shelf life. Pretty much everything has a shelf life. That is why you will need to check the dates on things like your activated charcol, collodial sliver, etc

Warp
04-01-2012, 10:44
Me, too. I used to store a lot more, but I have cut back gas reserves considerably--I got tired of fighting ethanol. I have worked on not needed as much in the first place.

Scenario 1, use up to half of it.

2 & 3, use some. Big shopping trip (if stores are still stocked), work (as little as possible and still keep job), save as much back for food production (tractor and tiller).

4. If it is that bad, it will only be used for food production or procurement. The only vehicles we will run are the corolla and the 100cc motorcycle. Converting the old truck to woodgas would move to top of the list, too.


Thank you. Just what I am looking for.


------------------

Because stored gas in containers eventually goes bad.

...of course. But that has nothing to do with the questions or scenarios. This isn't another thread asking about how to store gas, or how to rotate it, or if sta-bil works.


I don't feel like I store enough gas to even play this game.

We keep about 25 gallons in rotation and try to keep all our tanks at least 1/2 full...

I think most of us have that much, if not less.

I only have 20 gallons in quality containers (Scepter MFC). I also have 4 of the cheap red plastic containers but I don't usually keep those full. Right now two are (for the mower, etc, more than for reserves) which gives me 30 gallons in addition to what is in the vehicles.

--------------------------

BORNGEARHEAD
04-01-2012, 12:45
My jerry cans are strictly for a bugging out situation.

farmer-dave
04-01-2012, 15:09
I'm always amazed at how few people store gas. Drums are cheap. Set them on a pallet, paint them good and cover with a tarp. I have 3 drums in various locations that I use, I also keep a 100 gallon transfer tank in a shed besides the one I keep in my pickup. I personally wish I stored more gasoline. While I do have cans, I think of them more for atv's and chainsaws then keeping the vehicles going.

R_W
04-01-2012, 15:53
Storing gas is a complete PITA on a farm, in town it would be impossible to do legally.

I can't get gas delivered unless I can take at least 250 gallons, and they charge 20 cents a gallon more than at their pump (which is already 5-10 cents high). And they usually have water in the fuel to begin with! I can't put a tank within X feet of any insured building (varies with the size of the tank). It will drive a man to drink (but they spoiled that ethanol by putting gas in it)

Ideally, I would have several drums (of ethanol free) in various buried caches (to keep it cool more than hidden). But I don't and have higher prep priorities right now. So I shuttle a NATO can or two whenever I am going to the town with cheaper gas. They get stored next to my propane tank back in the treeline.

squirreld
04-01-2012, 19:15
good questions!

Warp
04-01-2012, 19:17
I will think of a way to more blatantly/simplistically state my question and start another thread later this week.

farmer-dave
04-01-2012, 20:13
I will think of a way to more blatantly/simplistically state my question and start another thread later this week.

Don't get so annoyed, we know what your asking some of us just like to wander on threads. How I use fuel totally depends upon the situations at hand whether I personally view them as short term or a potential long term situation. I'll use my last drum of fuel for generator use before I use it on transportation, unless bugout is a mandatory situation. There's just really too many variables to put stuff in to specific scenarios. I can tell your a big thinker and like to really analyze stuff, I guess I just fly by the seat of my pants. Of course I'm self employed so getting to work is sort of at my discretion when it comes to fuel use.

Warp
04-01-2012, 20:19
Don't get so annoyed, we know what your asking some of us just like to wander on threads. How I use fuel totally depends upon the situations at hand whether I personally view them as short term or a potential long term situation. I'll use my last drum of fuel for generator use before I use it on transportation, unless bugout is a mandatory situation. There's just really too many variables to put stuff in to specific scenarios. I can tell your a big thinker and like to really analyze stuff, I guess I just fly by the seat of my pants. Of course I'm self employed so getting to work is sort of at my discretion when it comes to fuel use.

I assumed that if people understood what I was asking they wouldn't reply with "rotate your gas annually" or something else as rudimentary as that...and post nothing else.

To me it looks like most people just simply aren't getting it so I figured I would rephrase and just put it into a straight question form instead of attempting scenarios

farmer-dave
04-01-2012, 20:29
What your asking is hard to put in specifics, it's sort of like asking when will I have sex with my wife, hell if I know but I'm ready when the situation presents itself. S&p forum is where I sometimes hang out and b.s. to relax sometimes we all get away from it being a tech forum and more of a comment forum. Sorry I don't have much to contribute to your question. Give it time and I'm sure others will.

TangoFoxtrot
04-02-2012, 04:57
I'd use it when I have to. It's no more complicated than that.

Exactly! Just keep it simple.

Warp
04-02-2012, 10:53
Exactly! Just keep it simple.

What qualifies as needing to?

RWBlue
04-02-2012, 14:43
What qualifies as needing to?

I think it depends.

I need to go to work, or I don't get paid and then I am not happy.

On the other hand, I have gone several days without power and it didn't bother me.

I know others who would not be happy without power and would decide to stay home from work on days that I consider normal travel days.

It depends.













I guess the other way to handle this question is to tell us your thoughts and let us argue about them.:wavey:

Warp
04-02-2012, 16:21
I guess the other way to handle this question is to tell us your thoughts and let us argue about them.:wavey:

True.

If it was expected to be short term, like scenario 1 or similar, and my wife needed gas in order to get to work I would be willing to use some reserves to do that.

Our primary vehicle (mine) only gets 15 mpg around town but it holds over 30 gallons and I've been filling it up at the 3/4 mark (comes out to once a week), so it ought to always have a lot of range available. We have 20 gallons of reserves but that should increase to 30gal shortly and I would like to further increase it after that. I also have 10gal for lawn equipment that is allowed to run out before refilling.

I would like to always have enough to completely fill my vehicle with at least 10 additional gallons in reserve. Using more than that would require an absolute necessity of use.

I don't have a generator. When I do get one I would be willing to use fuel in it for almost any short term scenario. If the incident dragged out that might change.

RWBlue
04-02-2012, 17:45
True.

If it was expected to be short term, like scenario 1 or similar, and my wife needed gas in order to get to work I would be willing to use some reserves to do that.

Our primary vehicle (mine) only gets 15 mpg around town but it holds over 30 gallons and I've been filling it up at the 3/4 mark (comes out to once a week), so it ought to always have a lot of range available. We have 20 gallons of reserves but that should increase to 30gal shortly and I would like to further increase it after that. I also have 10gal for lawn equipment that is allowed to run out before refilling.

I would like to always have enough to completely fill my vehicle with at least 10 additional gallons in reserve. Using more than that would require an absolute necessity of use.

I don't have a generator. When I do get one I would be willing to use fuel in it for almost any short term scenario. If the incident dragged out that might change.

Seems like it will work.

wildcat455
04-02-2012, 19:02
To the OP:

I have no gas stored. I used it up trying to avoid paying the price at the pump.

No more trips to the Gym, range, "toy" stores for me. Lifestyle hasn't been "Normal" since the price hit $4.00 a gallon.

Apologies for failing out early.

Carry16
04-02-2012, 20:47
The 50-60 gallons I store is really intended for generator use only, but I could use some in a vehicle in an extreme event.
I genereally never let the vehicles go below 1/2 full, and in the colder months 3/4 full. Closest gas station is 7 miles. An event that was limiting refilling my vehicles would be of such concer that I would not like to use more than 10 or so gallons of the reserve.

My pickup and van are 15 mpg and my HHR is 25-35, so it would be my choice during gas shortages.

I've been thru several ice storms and two tornados. It is not uncommon for an ice storm to trap us in our home for 3-7 days every other winter. Roads are hilly and it's too dangerous to drive during a bad storm.

The 70's gas lines were a pain in the ***, I hope we don't have anymore of that in my future.

This probably still doesn't quite answer your questions Warp, but I think I may be a little closer.

I think how readily I would be willing to use my reserve fuel would be tempered by how easily and quickly I would be able to replace it.