Limits of water filters? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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emt1581
03-31-2012, 20:43
I've got a Katadyn Pocket and am thinking about adding a Vario to my GHB. I know they are rated to filter out a lot of the microscopic bugs out there. But what are it's limits?

If I mixed up some kool-aid and then ran it through the filter would I just be left with water? Could I filter water out of the toilet?

What would be the limit of these filters?

Thanks

-Emt1581

emt1581
04-01-2012, 06:56
Anyone?

Thanks

-Emt1581

Kingarthurhk
04-01-2012, 07:31
Why would you mix potentially contaminated water with kool-aide? The logical thing do do would be to purify the water THEN add your Kool-aide. I have a Katydyn pocket as well, with the ceramic filter. It would not cross my mind to dow what you are suggesting.

lpo
04-01-2012, 07:35
Why would you mix potentially contaminated water with kool-aide? The logical thing do do would be to purify the water THEN add your Kool-aide. I have a Katydyn pocket as well, with the ceramic filter. It would not cross my mind to dow what you are suggesting.

I think what he is asking is the filter good enough to filter out kool-aid. Not speaking for him, but that it is what it sounded like to me.

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RED64CJ5
04-01-2012, 07:39
If I mixed up some kool-aid and then ran it through the filter would I just be left with water? Could I filter water out of the toilet?

Funny question, but slightly amusing the same. Why not try Coca-Cola while you're at it?

emt1581
04-01-2012, 07:39
I think what he is asking is the filter good enough to filter out kool-aid. Not speaking for him, but that it is what it sounded like to me.

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You got it!

-Emt1581

Protus
04-01-2012, 07:47
I've got a Katadyn Pocket and am thinking about adding a Vario to my GHB. I know they are rated to filter out a lot of the microscopic bugs out there. But what are it's limits?

If I mixed up some kool-aid and then ran it through the filter would I just be left with water? Could I filter water out of the toilet?

What would be the limit of these filters?

Thanks

-Emt1581

the water may still be red ,but it would be clean LOL.
The pocket is rated for a lot. On mine( older one) it stated as being able to clean out most of everything even nuke fall out.
It wont do infectious crap. You need chem/charcoal treatments for that.

But down right nasty mud puddle that was rooted up by a herd of pigs water...it will make it come out clear.

Ive used the hiker since around 03' and tried to kill it and filter every nasty bit of h20 i could. Well down here, we dont have clear streams or lakes, its all tanic acid stained mud holes. I also run the katadyn mini, and have had zero issues as well.

i will tell you with the hiker, ive filtered stuff that still came out discolored, but tasted better than tap water. The acids from plant debris sometimes still make it through, but it wont bother you.The pocket is better than the hiker....use it and dont worry, if you think your h20 has chemicals and stuff like anthrax,aids,zombie T virus etc, boil,chem treat and drink...

ETA:

the easiest way to find out is try it. Worse case it stains the filter medium...big deal imho...i dont have any kool aid here or i'd film the PF filtering it. You could also use food dye prolly and have the same effect,sans having your filter full of red sugar water LOL.

ive done the brackish water,coke cola test on R/O bladder filters in the past...it all came out clear....for the most part

emt1581
04-01-2012, 07:57
the water may still be red ,but it would be clean LOL.
The pocket is rated for a lot. On mine( older one) it stated as being able to clean out most of everything even nuke fall out.
It wont do infectious crap. You need chem/charcoal treatments for that.

But down right nasty mud puddle that was rooted up by a herd of pigs water...it will make it come out clear.

Ive used the hiker since around 03' and tried to kill it and filter every nasty bit of h20 i could. Well down here, we dont have clear streams or lakes, its all tanic acid stained mud holes. I also run the katadyn mini, and have had zero issues as well.

i will tell you with the hiker, ive filtered stuff that still came out discolored, but tasted better than tap water. The acids from plant debris sometimes still make it through, but it wont bother you.The pocket is better than the hiker....use it and dont worry, if you think your h20 has chemicals and stuff like anthrax,aids,zombie T virus etc, boil,chem treat and drink...

ETA:

the easiest way to find out is try it. Worse case it stains the filter medium...big deal imho...i dont have any kool aid here or i'd film the PF filtering it. You could also use food dye prolly and have the same effect,sans having your filter full of red sugar water LOL.

ive done the brackish water,coke cola test on R/O bladder filters in the past...it all came out clear....for the most part

What did you mean by "It won't do infectious crap"?

-Emt1581

Protus
04-01-2012, 08:09
What did you mean by "It won't do infectious crap"?

-Emt1581

viruses, dead rotting infected bodies in your swimming pool.
Its rated as a 0.02 micron filter. But for chemicals and viruses you need to chemical treat/carbon filter to make it safe.
The PF ( pocket filter) does all but that. The only one i know of that does is the 1st need. But its bulkier than the PF.

If your just concerned about if the PF will filter cruddy pond scum water,mud puddle water,slow stagnant stream water and make it safe. It will. sans the HIV/aids example i gave above. Sorry i made it dramatic more than anything, verse listing 100 different what it can and not do.

what is your main concern with the PF. I abuse my water filters, i use a ceradyn drip daily and have over 400 gallons through my hiker and other katadyn hand pump filters ( PF, and mini). Im not an expert , just a guy who use's his kit a lot.

R_W
04-01-2012, 08:23
The pocket is the best FILTER there is out there, but it won't get small viruses or molecularly small chemicals or heavy metals--it will get some but not all. There isn't a single solution for everything that could be in water.

If you think there may be some zombie virus in the water--BLEACH. It takes like a single grain of pool chlorine granules to disinfect a bottle of water, there is room in the GHB for a little bottle of it. Or iodine if you prefer.

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-01-2012, 09:02
I don't have that brand, and have never tested my straw to that extreme.. but I have seen a Berkey filter "watering hole" water, some of the vilest crap I ever saw, into drinking/drinkable water.

wjv
04-01-2012, 10:19
I have an old PUR with a iodine matrix and an added carbon filter.

It will get everything except fallout.

What gets through the filter is killed by the iodine and nasty chemicals are removed by the carbon. Kt was actually rated as a water purifier and not a filter.

Another option now-day's is to buy a good filter and a UV purifier stick.

quake
04-01-2012, 17:55
I have an old PUR with a iodine matrix and an added carbon filter.
This is what I use/carry in my ghb; the pur voyageur. It's a purifier, rather than just a filter. It's hard to find cartridges for it now. Most commonly the replacement filters you find nowadays are for the "Hiker" version, which is just a filter. Very good filter, but not a purifier. The hiker does remove the cryptosporidium virus, which a lot of filters have trouble with.

On filters vs. purifiers, purifiers do everything filters do, but ALSO remove viruses (viri?) as well. The voyageur cartridge, as far as I can tell, are the same as the hiker cartridge with the exception of being treated with iodine. That kills the viruses but also leaves that funky iodine taste in the water, much like the iodine tabs do. (I carry those as backups fwiw.) To address this, the voyageur has an inline (post-cartridge) carbon pack that does a very good job of removing the iodine taste, so the output of the voyageur is imo about the best of both worlds - the benefits of the chemical iodine treatment without the nasty taste of the iodine treatment.

They quit actively marketing the voyageur cartridge in north america, because a 'purifier' has been deemed by some as unnecessary here, but I'm a fan and they can still be found if you look.

Big Bird
04-01-2012, 18:00
The probabilty of contracting a virus from drinking filtered water is rather small. Possible. But small. I know when we used Berkeys for all our water needs in Pakistan in 1988 we never chemically treated our water. I had an 8 man team in country drinking water from the local rural water supply for almost a year and we filtered everything through the Berkey. Nobody got sick--not once.

emt1581
04-01-2012, 18:04
So for the stuff my filter won't catch...will a few drops of bleach do the trick, the UV light, etc...? Or are these bugs that nothing will kill short of something really extreme?

Thanks

-Emt1581

Glock30Eric
04-01-2012, 18:12
Tagged cuz I have KPF.


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quake
04-01-2012, 18:25
...when we used Berkeys for all our water needs in Pakistan in 1988 we never chemically treated our water. I had an 8 man team in country drinking water from the local rural water supply for almost a year and we filtered everything through the Berkey. Nobody got sick--not once.

I thought berkeys removed viruses...?

quake
04-01-2012, 18:44
On the berkeys removing viruses, they do; at least the current black filter elements do. (Emphasis added.)

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/filtervspurifier.htm
There are two different classification standards for water treatment devices.

The first classification is a water filter, to meet this standard a water treatment device must remove at least 99.99% of pathogenic bacteria. This is known in the water filter industry as a log 4 reduction.

The second classification is a water purifier, to meet this standard a water treatment device must remove at least 99.9999% of pathogenic bacteria (log 6 reduction). In addition the water purifier must be capable of reducing viruses by at least 99.999% (log 5 reduction).

All Berkey systems that contain the Black Berkey elements are classified as purifiers. In fact Berkey Purifiers remove 99.9999999% (log 9 reduction) of pathogenic bacteria. To our knowledge no other water filtration device in the world can match that claim.

Then again, I don't think the black filters came out until the 1990's, so it would have probably been the non-purifier white ones in use in 1988.

Kingarthurhk
04-01-2012, 20:37
When it doubt boil it as well.

There is nothing wrong with redundant system when it comes to water.

I have the pocket filter, yes, but I also have a carbon filter bottle as well if I am just desperate.

But, if I have the time, I don't see the harm in using the the Katydyn Pocket Filter and then the water I pump into a container, taking that back and boiling it.

I have redundant methods of making fire, I have redundant systems to purify water.

Protus
04-02-2012, 06:23
So for the stuff my filter won't catch...will a few drops of bleach do the trick, the UV light, etc...? Or are these bugs that nothing will kill short of something really extreme?

Thanks

-Emt1581

iodine or bleach treatment or boil it.
The PF if the water is sketchy just treat it, or boil. But like i posted already, you can take your PF outside right now.,,find a mud hole, filter and drink with out worry.



My water preps are such-

stored h20-barrels,jugs
survival straw
hiker
mini
Pocket
ceradyn
bleach
secondaries- pond,well

gotta have h20 or you die. Redundancy like posted already is key.


visit katadyn's site. They have all kinds of PDF's with info about what they can and can not filter. Below is the "fact" sheet for the PF.


ETA:
http://katadynch.vs31.snowflakehosting.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/katadyn_products/Downloads/Factsheet_Pocket_EN.pdf

Babynine
04-02-2012, 09:15
I carry the MSR MiniWorks Ex with added Sweetwater Siltstopper prefilter to limit the particulates that reach the ceremic filter, increasing the amount of water that I can filter between cartridge cleanings. This add-on prefilter will fit the Katadyns from what I have read. Also a cheapo paper coffee filter over the inlet seems to help in that way too, and both do very little to slow the flow of filtered water.

For purification I recently added a SteriPen classic UV sterilizer to my kit that runs on Eneloop AAs, that can be charged from my GoalZero solar charger. I have tested the batteries up to 58 purified liters of water on one set of batteries and the batteries were not dead yet, although the low battery indicator had been on for some time. Before I added the SteriPen to my kit I never got sick. I just felt another layer of protection would not hurt.

I use my filter almost every week on hikes as I like the taste of the local spring fed creeks and lakes. I think the taste definitely beats any tap water, and equals the best bottled waters.

cowboy1964
04-02-2012, 09:43
I think one of the Berkey videos I saw showed it filtering out red food coloring.