when to stop pushing the envelope? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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gofastman
04-01-2012, 11:44
now that I no longer have a glock oem barrel and dont get glock smiles, what do you look for to determine if you have ventured too far into over-pressure territory?

My storm lake 10mm barrel has good chamber support and my LWD 10-40 conversion barrel as REALLY good chamber support (old design I guess :upeyes:)

Obviously it is prudent to never venture too far outside published load data. but those of you that are like me and like to "test" things, example; KEGS and 21Carrier with their ridiculous 135gr loadings.
what do you look for to make sure your loads are reasonably safe?

robert91922
04-01-2012, 13:01
now that I no longer have a glock oem barrel and dont get glock smiles, what do you look for to determine if you have ventured too far into over-pressure territory?

My storm lake 10mm barrel has good chamber support and my LWD 10-40 conversion barrel as REALLY good chamber support (old design I guess :upeyes:)

Obviously it is prudent to never venture too far outside published load data. but those of you that are like me and like to "test" things, example; KEGS and 21Carrier with their ridiculous 135gr loadings.
what do you look for to make sure your loads are reasonably safe?
- gas leakage at primers
- flattening primers
- primers fall out

I got IGB 4.6" full supported barrel so no smilies ever and it's chamber is tighter than OEM so all what's left are primers. Beside that I have final goals: 200gr XTP/1250, 155gr GD&XTP 1500, 165gr GD/1400 and recently (still working on it) 212gr hardcast/1200. No need to go higher.
When developing loads, kevlar gloves and Revision googles are must.
This week I am gonna get police riot helmet as well - older model, not issued anymore. Nice to have friends in LE :cool:

Javelin
04-01-2012, 13:23
Keep going until you post a pictorial message on GT without any explanation about a blown G20 and then we can all throw feces at you, Glock, and the 10mm and then get into a pissing match over who is at fault.






April fools... :wavey:

gofastman
04-02-2012, 17:12
When developing loads, kevlar gloves and Revision googles are must.
I need some better gloves, I use some thing goatskin ones right now

I wear, and recommend to others, Uvex Genesis XC (http://www.uvex.us/uploadedFiles/ProductConfiguration/ProductLiterature/Uvex_Genesis_XC_Brochure.pdf) they meet MIL-V0 ballistic requirements, meaning they can withstand an impact that has 7 times more energy than standard high impact (ANSI Z87+) safety glasses.
They also have an anti-fog coating that actually works!

Any Cal.
04-02-2012, 22:36
I am thinking that I want to limit my loads to those that start to smile in the factory barrel. That way if the loads ever get mixed up, it isn't as likely to be dangerous, and it keeps me from raising pressures too high chasing power.

robert91922
04-03-2012, 00:24
I need some better gloves, I use some thing goatskin ones right now

I wear, and recommend to others, Uvex Genesis XC (http://www.uvex.us/uploadedFiles/ProductConfiguration/ProductLiterature/Uvex_Genesis_XC_Brochure.pdf) they meet MIL-V0 ballistic requirements, meaning they can withstand an impact that has 7 times more energy than standard high impact (ANSI Z87+) safety glasses.
They also have an anti-fog coating that actually works!
Gloves don't cost much comparing to hand surgery :supergrin:
They have to be fully lined w. spectra or kevlar:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TACTICAL-SEARCH-SHOOTING-GLOVES-SPECTRA-LINER-/290556212246?pt=US_CSA_MWA_Gloves_Mittens&var=&hash=item43a67ff416
or:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLICE-SEARCH-GLOVES-LEATHER-SPECTRA-LINER-Cut-Resist-/290504384476?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item43a3691fdc
or:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kevlar-Lined-Black-Leather-Police-Duty-Search-Gloves-/170796416308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item27c4427d34
etc.

robert91922
04-03-2012, 00:28
I am thinking that I want to limit my loads to those that start to smile in the factory barrel. That way if the loads ever get mixed up, it isn't as likely to be dangerous, and it keeps me from raising pressures too high chasing power.
Sounds reasonable if you use both barrels, factory and aftermarket. I don't. I even don't dare to shoot my woods carry load 200gr XTP/1250fps in OEM barrel.

gofastman
04-15-2012, 01:32
found these:
http://www.ansellpro.com/product-catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?productId=210

they have an unusually high puncture and tear resistance rating, EN 388- level 4.

plus they are fairly inexpensive! I just hope they aren't too bulky,
I'm gonna get a pair of these too in case the first ones don't work:
http://www.ansellpro.com/product-catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?productId=342 but they "only" have a level 2 rating (still very good)

Kegs
04-17-2012, 10:11
I wait til the primers pop in some of them and then back off.

gofastman
04-17-2012, 20:47
I wait til the primers pop in some of them and then back off.


Seriously?

_The_Shadow
04-18-2012, 08:56
There are two weak spots to be concerned about...
Case web where unsupported this could allow the casing to blow out releasing high pressure jets of gas.

The other is lockup & recoil system. This is where the impuse overcomes the lockup/recoil system and the ejection cycle starts too soon. This allows the slide to move backwards increasing the unsupported casing web area or if the casing is held tightly to the chamber walls the space between the breech face and the cartridge head can increase and the primers can back out or blow out. Some casings can be left in the chamber and not extracted, this usually happens with powders that are too slow for semi auto rifles.

Neither are a safe conditions...

gofastman
04-19-2012, 00:03
There are two weak spots to be concerned about...
I have a comp'd SL barrel, good chamber support; and an 'old style' .40 LWD conversion with very good chamber support.
I usually run a 24lb Wolff spring and step down to an ISMI 24lb, ISMI 20lb and try to get back to the OEM spring, I find the comp works better at reducing recoil and flip with the lighter recoil springs, I don't go below the stock one though.

If I have the brass supported, and the lockup issue under control, what is the next weak link or pressure indicator?

_The_Shadow
04-19-2012, 17:46
The primers could flatten out completely, blow out or holes in them or case head seperation could happen but it is hard to say just what the weakest area that will show signs or let go!!! It still remains part of the lock up and timing of unlock to start the ejection cycle...

Kegs
04-20-2012, 08:49
Seriously?

Yep. I have found that's better than waiting until the pistol explodes. :supergrin: :wavey:

blastfact
04-24-2012, 22:37
I drove my 155gn XTP's right up to the point of insanity. With both Win and Starline brass. At a very hot Blue Dot load I have gotten micro holes in the brass at 1/3 of the way up from the primer. They can be seen as little carbon spots. Under magnification I can see little tiny pits. I have put this brass in a hydraulic press. Sealed it off filled with water and put 125 psi of air to it. After about 10 mins under pressure the outside of the brass starts showing moisture where the carbon spots are.

Head, web, primer and all of that looks great. So it must be a hot spot developing in a nano second followed by a very slight gas leak, thus the carbon spots.

Action taken. Back down 2/10th of a gn and let the lighting flash and the thunder roll. :)

Yondering
04-25-2012, 12:38
I drove my 155gn XTP's right up to the point of insanity. With both Win and Starline brass.

How fast was this, out of curiosity? Std length or 6" barrel?

blastfact
04-26-2012, 17:37
How fast was this, out of curiosity? Std length or 6" barrel?

Lets just call it 1650 fps @ 7 yards. The old Chrony I borrowed to work up the load. Worked about as well as my old one that I gave away.

gofastman
05-08-2012, 16:59
I wait til the primers pop in some of them and then back off.

Lets see if 10grs of BlueDot and a CCI 400 will do the trick in my .40 conversion barrel!

_The_Shadow
05-08-2012, 18:15
Gofastman, are you working with a CHRNO? If not your wasiting you time! Why? Because you will have no idea of the velocity developed to learn anything useful!

Be safe and best regards!

Jitterbug
05-08-2012, 18:45
Gofastman, are you working with a CHRNO? If not your wasiting you time! Why? Because you will have no idea of the velocity developed to learn anything useful!

Be safe and best regards!

What with the cost of components my $120 chrono from Midway paid for itself in no time, without it I was always changing this or that and guessing at the velocity.

Or guestimating from what other's where getting, now that I KNOW what the velocity is, I'm enjoying considerable savings and a specific load, tuned to my criteria, so I tend to stick with it, not to mention the peace of mind.

I agree 100% about wasting your time, not to mention lottsa money without one.

Great tool, that's greatly enhanced my reloading enjoyment. Get one!

gofastman
05-08-2012, 20:45
Gofastman, are you working with a CHRNO?
Yes, well...I was
until I missed and put one through the brain of the thing :crying:

Im planing on sending it out and having the IR light kit put in while its there, depending on what the rebuild costs I may just break down and buy a ProChrono

Yondering
05-08-2012, 21:00
Yes, well...I was
until I missed and put one through the brain of the thing :crying:

Im planing on sending it out and having the IR light kit put in while its there, depending on what the rebuild costs I may just break down and buy a ProChrono

If you have a Shooting Chrony now, do yourself a favor, and just go ahead and get the ProChrono. Much easier to use, and waaay more reliable, no more incomplete data sets when the chrony doesn't read the shot. I'll never go back, personally.

A friend also had a Shooting Chrony, same as me. Both of ours eventually died, and we got ProChronos instead. He's shot and replaced his ProChrono 3 times already, and hasn't wanted a different brand.

MinervaDoe
05-12-2012, 13:41
...what do you look for to make sure your loads are reasonably safe?

Here's how we separate the serious reloaders from the dilettantes. At the very least, learn how to apply the techniques that Ken Waters described in Pet Loads. Waiting for your primers to back out is bad mojo. But please, if you insist on blindly following Internet here-say advice, feel free to tell us about your hospital visits and gunsmith fees. :whistling:

http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Measure%20Pressure.htm

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/58763-pressure-signs.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-67444.html


Ken Water's book "Pet Loads" has a good discussion on watching for pressure signs up front (first chapter). He measures the difference in diameter just above the case rim between new and fired factory ammo and uses that change as a baseline for comparison to his handloads. There's more to it and it's worth the read.

_The_Shadow
05-12-2012, 14:13
Rocky Raab's a nice guy! He is on the Handloads forum reguraly, and we have exchanged some info over the years.

I will be reserved in when to stop pushing the envelope? Safe is better than Sorry! :wow:

I have some fingers which have been injured over the years...hand saw, table saw, nail gun and side grinder...but never from my handloads and I intend to keep it that way!:shocked:

I like myself, my guns and my brass too! :supergrin:

Be safe! :wavey:

gofastman
05-12-2012, 14:22
But please, if you insist on blindly following Internet here-say advice, feel free to tell us about your hospital visits and gunsmith fees
why the hell would you take a Glock to a gunsmith, they have like 30 parts? :rofl:

gator378
05-12-2012, 17:42
now that I no longer have a glock oem barrel and dont get glock smiles, what do you look for to determine if you have ventured too far into over-pressure territory?

My storm lake 10mm barrel has good chamber support and my LWD 10-40 conversion barrel as REALLY good chamber support (old design I guess :upeyes:)

Obviously it is prudent to never venture too far outside published load data. but those of you that are like me and like to "test" things, example; KEGS and 21Carrier with their ridiculous 135gr loadings.
what do you look for to make sure your loads are reasonably safe?
I have a chrony so when I get close to the published velocity in the reloading manuals, I have more than one, I quite pushing. If I am close to the published velocities, that is good enough for me. If 1,000 fps is published velociy max, 950 is good enough for me.

dm1906
05-12-2012, 19:53
Here's how we separate the serious reloaders from the dilettantes. At the very least, learn how to apply the techniques that Ken Waters described in Pet Loads. Waiting for your primers to back out is bad mojo. But please, if you insist on blindly following Internet here-say advice, feel free to tell us about your hospital visits and gunsmith fees. :whistling:

http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/Measure%20Pressure.htm

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/58763-pressure-signs.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-67444.html

Dittos! Been doing it this way for over 30 years. If you're waiting for loose primers, or even gas leakage, you've waited too long. When this happens, the brass should be retired, at the least. Glock makes it easy, with a rectangular breach. There will almost always be a radius bias on overpressure loads. Staying within mfg published loads and velocities is no less safe.