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TangoFoxtrot
04-03-2012, 04:44
Urban and suburban residence.

What is your plan if a major SHTF senario ( Civil unrest, solar EMP, terrist attacks, major fuel stortages, etc.) happens and you can't for whatever reason bug out. What is your defense plan?

Protus
04-03-2012, 06:48
Urban and suburban residence.

What is your plan if a major SHTF senario happens and you can't for whatever reason bug out. What is your defense plan?

what is major?
Mad max/red dawn/zombies
or a few days with out utilities( for some that is a major shtf event).

Right now in my AO if it was the 1st style( the typical internet wet dream)
It would go a lil something like this.

1- gather all family(wife and kid)
2- top off any supplies- not going to the store but filling up extra h20 barrels etc, while utilities are still up- charge batts.
3- If the event is violent( riots,zombies,paratroopers from cuba and south america) arm family - this step can be made to #2.
4- open comms- TV, radio,SW and Ham. Send out emails to a few or make calls to address issues,start plan B etc.
5- lock down- ride out what we can, and set up watch times,go over basics ( where FA kits are,ammo/mag bags, EE routes and way points to meet up if we are forced out), harden a safe area in the home.if it is an NBC event we suit up, decon, make safe areas, set up filters/poss pressure room.go over our closed door ROE( aka no one gets in alive)
6- if the event shows signs that we can bug out we will.
7- if we stuck in the middle of zombie land- well My ROE will go from "stop, ill shoot .." to ask questions later.Again im going by major shtf, and for me thats pretty much everyman for himself.


in the end if im stuck in ****ville, im gonna do my best to keep my family alive. Besides being burned out or over ran by a horde, we have the capability to outlast most in my AO due to the amount of preps/plan we have in place.


im already starting to implement "bug out" plans as we speak due to the amount of issues flooding my AO as it is...and there's only 70+ k in my town

UneasyRider
04-03-2012, 07:12
Choose a different place to live now.

Be out of the city and out of the path of refugees that will be heading for the "food" that we keep in the country somewhere.

Toyman
04-03-2012, 07:30
If you live in an Urban environment, your judgement is probably already flawed. What makes you think that your judgement on preps is going to be correct?

If you live in an urban environment, you better have a fortress built, because you're probably not getting out.

Come on, your commute is bumper to bumper madness and you think when the SHTF you're just gonna drive out of there? Really?

Think about it, nearly 30% of the time you're at work. In some places, if just one bridge is out or blocked with traffic, you're not getting home anytime soon.

Protus
04-03-2012, 07:37
If you live in an Urban environment, your judgement is probably already flawed. What makes you think that your judgement on preps is going to be correct?

If you live in an urban environment, you better have a fortress built, because you're probably not getting out.

Come on, your commute is bumper to bumper madness and you think when the SHTF you're just gonna drive out of there? Really?

Think about it, nearly 30% of the time you're at work. In some places, if just one bridge is out or blocked with traffic, you're not getting home anytime soon.

now come on guys..your not playing nice with the OP..he wants to know what you would do if you stuck it out at your condo in a city pf 400k people......:whistling:

Chesafreak
04-03-2012, 07:42
If you live in an urban environment, you better have a fortress built, because you're probably not getting out.

Come on, your commute is bumper to bumper madness and you think when the SHTF you're just gonna drive out of there? Really?

This is the reality I am faced with. Although I don't believe that things will get as bad as TEOTWAWKI, I don't plan on leaving the burbs. Even if I did leave, I foresee the same thing as Toyman. It will be too late if it comes to that.

It's not realistic in my case to move. I can't afford to move out to the middle of nowhere. Instead of bugging out, I see myself joining forces with neighbors and freinds.

quake
04-03-2012, 07:47
...major SHTF senario happens and you can't for whatever reason bug out. What is your defense plan?

If you can't bug out, the gotta bug in. Not being sarcastic, just that's all that's left. If bugging in, response depends on type of shtf as others have said. I honestly don't know how to plan a defense for an urban situation anymore; haven't been in a typical urban/suburban setting in quite a while.

Create hardened areas with reinforced (against bullets) walls or at least wall sections maybe..? Everybody gets a gun and everybody carries that gun; definitely. Trash cans & other containers get emptied, get new clean liners, get reinforced with duct tape for strength (a la barrel hoops) if need be, and then filled with water & covered. Charge every possible device and battery. Do all possible laundry, dishwashing, etc. Thermos(es) of coffee are your friend, but coffee's my friend now anyway... :embarassed:

ChuteTheMall
04-03-2012, 07:48
(1) Blackout curtains, don't forget under the doors. Nobody home.

(2) Quiet, turn that radio down. Nobody home.

(3) Trunk of car holds back-up bugout gear, including a change of clothes, food & water, etc, hidden under junk and trash. If my building is destroyed or burned, maybe I'll get to it before the looters. Maybe not.

(4) Another cheap stash of bugout clothes, food & water hidden offsite somewhere. I haven't picked out a good spot, but public storage places and parked vehicles could be targeted, and the woods will be full of eyes.

(5) Hardened doors & windows, fire extinguisher, water, food, weapons, etc right here in the hidden fortress, for the nobody home defense.

or

(6) Lights on, dogs playing in front yard, cleaning guns on porch or balcony while chatting with like-minded neighbors. Nobody worth messing with at home in this stronghold castle. Passing out free 2L bottles of water and cheap canned goods to polite people in need, while excess supplies last.:nutcheck:

Dexters
04-03-2012, 08:37
Urban and suburban residence.

What is your plan if a major SHTF senario happens and you can't for whatever reason bug out. What is your defense plan?

Have we been getting a lot of these lately or is it just me?

They seem 'trollish' to me - similar to the 'Closing exists from cities thread.

First the post provides no information.

What is a 'Major SHTF"?

Where is the OP bugging out to? Does he have a bug out location - how far away? Or, does he plan to live off the land.

Single? Wife? Children?

What preps does the OP have at home?

What time of the year is this scenario - spring, winter, summer, fall?

What is the OPs plan?

Chesafreak
04-03-2012, 08:48
(1) Blackout curtains, don't forget under the doors. Nobody home.

(2) Quiet, turn that radio down. Nobody home.

(3) Trunk of car holds back-up bugout gear, including a change of clothes, food & water, etc, hidden under junk and trash. If my building is destroyed or burned, maybe I'll get to it before the looters. Maybe not.

(4) Another cheap stash of bugout clothes, food & water hidden offsite somewhere. I haven't picked out a good spot, but public storage places and parked vehicles could be targeted, and the woods will be full of eyes.

(5) Hardened doors & windows, fire extinguisher, water, food, weapons, etc right here in the hidden fortress, for the nobody home defense.

or

(6) Lights on, dogs playing in front yard, cleaning guns on porch or balcony while chatting with like-minded neighbors. Nobody worth messing with at home in this stronghold castle. Passing out free 2L bottles of water and cheap canned goods to polite people in need, while excess supplies last.:nutcheck:

Option 6 is my plan.

UneasyRider
04-03-2012, 09:00
Choose a different place to live now.

Be out of the city and out of the path of refugees that will be heading for the "food" that we keep in the country somewhere.

I missed the suburban part of your post, my fault, sorry.

In the city I think that your screwed, in the suburbs that are correctly positioned around a city... Not in the refugee path and with the ability to grow a little food in your garden. Personally I think that the suburb could be one of the best places to be.

Survival keys:

Water supply, filter and calcium hypochlorite
Stored food
Defensive weapons
Neighborhood organization
A garden

You need a group to survive in the burbs or in the country, otherwise the opposing force will roll over you or snipe you IMO.

bdcochran
04-03-2012, 09:08
What is your defense plan?

My defense plan is very simple. Before shtf, I continuously review new equipment that comes on the market, keep advancing my skills, exercise and keep up my meds. Those are items that I can control.

After shtf, I adapt. Before shtf, I have contemplated other people's responses to the potential crises. After shtf, I operate based upon those speculations (based upon historical research).

Most of post shtf is keeping a low profile. Unfortunately, I will have to "network" with people less skilled or who were previously unprepared.

Sometimes, there is an unspoken assumption in this forum. I articulate it as follows. The assumption is that your potential opponents will not adapt, not change, and be totally irrational. They will; just like your incompetent neighbors and relatives adapt, change and go up the learning curve. When that happens, it will become grim for you. All the bs about rural vs. urban will disappear after a few weeks.

jason10mm
04-03-2012, 09:30
Yeah, in a medium to large city you are just screwed. Having a well stocked GHB is absolutely essential, as is being able to evac ASAP. Waiting around puts you in the middle of hundreds of thousands of other people doing the same thing. Think about the NYC blackouts. The first guys to hoof it probably got out of Manhattan 5 times faster. Alas, most of us would probably stay at the job until it was blatantly obvious that nothing was going to improve.

Barring a violent/deadly crisis (falling meteorites, paratroopers, ice storm) I think most folk will be relatively well behaved at least as long as the sun is up. Come nightfall though people will start to get hungry, thirsty, and scared. That is NOT the time to be on the street. Use your GHB cash stash to get a hotel room, stay with a friend, stay at work, whatever. Your window to walk out is over as the risk assessment has fundamentally changed.

If you live in the city then space is a premium and a year of stored food, a metric ton of water, and elaborate armories are not feasible. You have to act FAST and stockpile what you can while you can. Hit up the nearest store for canned food before the masses figure it out, load up your tub and every container you own with city water while it is flowing/potable. Then it is turtle time and you are a ghost until the troops come in and restore utilities or start the evacuation. REMEMBER SANITATION! One of those makeshift toilets is absolutely vital, as just pooping off your balcony will expose you. At least wait till nightfall. Hopefully you have a patio garden.

But really, the best course of action is to have a BOB and be quick to use it. You ought to have friends/family in the 'burbs you can evac to, link up/resupply, and continue on to your final BOL. I'm not really sure just how flammable modern cities really are, but I can only imagine that there would be at least some sporatic fires from accidents, damage, and probably arson. Bugging in is just too risky unless you have a relatively small and isolated building where you can control the risk of fire. But flooding, an earthquake, or a dirty bomb may render your dwelling untenable and you have to be prepared to evac no matter how bad it is outside (though in a dirty bomb scenario if you can seal your apartment you may be better off).

There was a half decent movie a few years back about a guy who bugs in during a pandemic outbreak and the challenges he has to deal with. Can't remember the name but it takes place in LA IIRC.

Bolster
04-03-2012, 09:40
If you live in an Urban environment, your judgement is probably already flawed.

Uh...OK.

Normally I'd respond, but I've seen so many urban/rural food fights on this forum since I've been here, I think I'll sit this one out.

kirgi08
04-03-2012, 09:47
Knowing when ta go is key.'08.

Dexters
04-03-2012, 09:52
sometimes, there is an unspoken assumption in this forum. I articulate it as follows. The assumption is that your potential opponents will not adapt, not change, and be totally irrational. They will; just like your incompetent neighbors and relatives adapt, change and go up the learning curve. When that happens, it will become grim for you. All the bs about rural vs. Urban will disappear after a few weeks.

+1...

Dexters
04-03-2012, 09:59
Uh...OK.

Normally I'd respond, but I've seen so many urban/rural food fights on this forum since I've been here, I think I'll sit this one out.

You can just refer them to this thread.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1166268

Tired of-'I'll be secure and prepared on my farm.' response for SHTF

Dexters
04-03-2012, 10:08
Knowing when ta go is key.'08.

So true. The most difficult part is to work the plan - sit and wait. You have your preps, stay home, exercise and wait for things to settle down. After the initial insanity outside is over you can assess the situation.

kirgi08
04-03-2012, 11:32
Dex,have you read my "Decisions" thread.'08.

Dexters
04-03-2012, 11:44
Dex,have you read my "Decisions" thread.'08.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1360846

Yes! I was there. It is a good thread.
My situation is a bit different - I don't have a BOL. I live in a suburban location. Right now I'm about 1,500 mi. away from home in my RV.

I'm thinking about going a bit more rural later in life.

Protus
04-03-2012, 11:55
Uh...OK.

Normally I'd respond, but I've seen so many urban/rural food fights on this forum since I've been here, I think I'll sit this one out.

Not just here, the threads are everywhere. There's different schools of though because of the different make up of survivalist or preppers or whatever people want to call themselves these day's. Back in the day it was the norm to want a rural or semi rural retreat or as they say now a BOL. However as times change people dont see the need for that and we get the semi rural ,suburbia type "preppers" we see today. Many do not want to make the lifestyle changes needed to live in smaller towns, or in a semi or even rural area. Personally i dont care where folks live , as long as they do not sell themselves short when they prepare.
There are many for whatever reasons that feel safe in a more urban environment. It has its pro's and con's. As does living in a more rural area. But as with anything preparedness related, what works for poster X may not work for you or your plan. Ar or AK,9mm or 45. See my point. Honestly what if scenario's suck. Ive said that for a long time. There is to much to "guess" at what could happen.
The real answer is to get out while you can, either by relocation prior to, or having a place to go to. I dont feel many have that second option which is why we always see the typical " should i bug out" or " stay or go" themed threads on internet forums. I cant make that choice for anyone, nor them me, It's up to them.
But my 2 cents here.If you have the means to get out ahead of time do it, yeah you may have to drive an extra 30 min's to work each day, yeah you wont have a walmart 5 mins up the road. But in the end will it be better or worse than where you are at when an event happens?

Also as we draw closer to the election, 2012, and as things heat up over seas and in our own cities ( the whole t.martin debacle going on,economy etc ). Your going to see the same threads pop up more frequently ,because people will start to panic and try and prep as much as they can as an insurance policy before something happens.

I remember arguing with people on the web around 05-06' about using a clothing iron for mylar( heck even some folks here back in 08') now it's common place to see folks go that route.
My point,,,if you look at those dates,,katrina, and elections....none of the topics taught,talked about or blogged about are 100% new fresh off the press ideas...it's just " new" to a whole "new" group of people preparing...and each time someone put's their own zing to it.
YMMV

kirgi08
04-03-2012, 12:33
There are no "new" ideas.The S/P has been talked ta death.The bottom line is,results.'08.

MoneyMaker
04-03-2012, 17:11
Just mix up a big batch of potion Jim Jones gave me years ago and have a drink,bwahahahahahaha

UneasyRider
04-03-2012, 19:55
There are no "new" ideas.The S/P has been talked ta death.The bottom line is,results.'08.

I know what you mean. Except for a new product once in a while that is worth knowing about, most of us know what to do and just need to execute. Now it's all about economics... what comes first and what is last on the to do list or to buy list.

I admire the effort no matter where a guy lives. If you live in the city and make a ton of money and like the lifestyle that's great, it just makes it harder to prep for an immediate bug in situation. I lived in Boston for 8 years and loved it as a college kid but now I am in the burbs and would really like to be in the country when my wife retires.

Bolster
04-03-2012, 21:13
I know what you mean. Except for a new product once in a while that is worth knowing about, most of us know what to do and just need to execute...

I dunno, newbs like myself have a lot to learn from a forum such as this. I'm waaaay smarter about prepping now than I was a couple months ago, thanks to my time here reading, participating, getting knocked down sometimes, having people criticize my thinking, and so on.

For someone such as myself, this forum is sort of like going back to school and taking a course on prepping taught by several dozen cranky, hostile, arrogant professors. Despite the obstreperous style, there's lots of good information being put out there, if you listen and think about it.

What's interesting is beneath the prevalent veneer of "I'd rather kill ya than look at ya," there seems to be a genuine concern for the newbie preppers and a desire to set them (us!) straight. Sorta like the mean uncle who beneath all the salt and crust, was a peach of a guy. That's actually how I think about you guys. You're all my Uncle Bob...a sumbetch to the rest of the world, but a guiding hand to me.

So keep talking. It's OK to cover the same ground more than once, it's new to some of us.

AK_Stick
04-03-2012, 22:08
Have we been getting a lot of these lately or is it just me?

They seem 'trollish' to me - similar to the 'Closing exists from cities thread.

First the post provides no information.

What is a 'Major SHTF"?

Where is the OP bugging out to? Does he have a bug out location - how far away? Or, does he plan to live off the land.

Single? Wife? Children?

What preps does the OP have at home?

What time of the year is this scenario - spring, winter, summer, fall?

What is the OPs plan?


:rofl:

Does someone have to tell you all the details?


Perhaps this isn't a what would you do under x circumstances, but rather, seeing if you've put any thought/can put any thought into it and what you've come up with discussion?

thesurefire
04-03-2012, 22:13
I've tried my best to avoid the urban vs rural... thing, but some of these threads are ridiculous beyond belief. We're talking about a disaster, even a major scenario, not the zombie apocalypse that turns people devoid of any common sense, intellect, or humanity they had 2 seconds ago.

That said,

My primary plan is to not get noticed. Why would I? Just do what everyone else does. How hard is that? The Grey man approach is the only way to go. Do some of you you really think people will go door to door smelling around closed doors to sniff out food? Of course not, if they were devoted and motivated enough to do that, they wouldn't be so hungry.

Looking through windows? Board them up, if it gets that bad everyone else will already have done so.

In a disaster like some of you are predicting no where on earth will be safe, urban, rural, it doesn't matter.

In a mild disaster is there a advantage to being rural? Probably in most cases. In the end of the world I think the areas around Urban centers would be most ideal, a days ride into the big city for any parts you need, plus an abundance of other resources left behind.

Look a TV like Jericho, *spoilers ahead from here till the end* they have to journey to other cities very soon to get the things they need. You simply wont want to stay isolated forever, let alone truly be able to. There are so many advantages to a moderate sized group (100-1000 maybe) that it just isn't smart to try and hide out in the middle of nowhere.

Consider Jericho's situation, a town all working together and suffering being attacked by another town. It just makes so much more sense to not bicker with you neighbors until the scale is really a "us vs them" thing. In short if I have to have battle plans beyond common sense I'm betting I'm not really worried about any single home or belonging.

TangoFoxtrot
04-04-2012, 04:52
:upeyes:If you live in an Urban environment, your judgement is probably already flawed. What makes you think that your judgement on preps is going to be correct?

If you live in an urban environment, you better have a fortress built, because you're probably not getting out.

Come on, your commute is bumper to bumper madness and you think when the SHTF you're just gonna drive out of there? Really?

Think about it, nearly 30% of the time you're at work. In some places, if just one bridge is out or blocked with traffic, you're not getting home anytime soon.

Your statement is ridiculous! People for whatever reason cannot just pick up and move just to prep. If I could move to a rural area and make the salary I make now( in the city) all well and good in a "perfect world".:upeyes:

TangoFoxtrot
04-04-2012, 04:55
Uh...OK.

Normally I'd respond, but I've seen so many urban/rural food fights on this forum since I've been here, I think I'll sit this one out.


I see your point I'm sorry I even made this thread now.

TangoFoxtrot
04-04-2012, 04:57
This is the reality I am faced with. Although I don't believe that things will get as bad as TEOTWAWKI, I don't plan on leaving the burbs. Even if I did leave, I foresee the same thing as Toyman. It will be too late if it comes to that.

It's not realistic in my case to move. I can't afford to move out to the middle of nowhere. Instead of bugging out, I see myself joining forces with neighbors and freinds.

The last part of your statement is correct and reality! Are city vombies worse than rural vombies? :supergrin: Yes, some here believe that is true.

TangoFoxtrot
04-04-2012, 05:00
now come on guys..your not playing nice with the OP..he wants to know what you would do if you stuck it out at your condo in a city pf 400k people......:whistling:

Nahhh I just live in the burbs in a trailer and collect welfare checks instead.:upeyes:

Protus
04-04-2012, 05:08
Nahhh I just live in the burbs in a trailer and collect welfare checks instead.:upeyes:

wasnt meant to you OP it was to those , just not following your lead thats all:wavey:

Protus
04-04-2012, 05:23
Do some of you you really think people will go door to door smelling around closed doors to sniff out food?

No thinking about it they will.
I've been through many minor SHTF events down here( hurricanes,tornados etc). Back in 04' we had 3 iirc Canes slam into Florida in a 1.5 month period. In one night, where i worked and lived over 80+ families homes were lost in minutes in the middle of the night- wanna know what its like dealing with that many people at 2Am in teh wind and rain...it's real fun.When the second Cane hit less than 12 days later even more lost their homes. By that time we had been with out power for around 10 of those days. Day temps ranged around 95-98f, with 100% humidty. fun times.
Around day 10 i was on my porch, cooking dinner on the coleman stove. Defrosted steak( as food defrosted from the freezer we ate it), canned corn and some instant mashed potatoes. Since our area was pretty torn up, and me being young i would OC. ya know the whole " omg shtf gotta be the armed super hero.."
Anyhow.
Three people that i know lived 3-8 doors down, drifted down to my porch while i cooked. None of them were nice.
" come on you got plenty share with us.."
"can i get some..."
Fill in the blanks for other begging questions if you want.
The same folks asking for food, were the same ones who prior to the storms even refused to hear it about getting some extra cans of food or water.What drew their eyes away from the food was what was riding on my hip...it also kept the conversation very short, as it made my "no's" sink in a little harder.

Now we had running h20, some area store's were open, and FEMA had 4 food/water depot's set up in a 10 mile radius of my AO.But with no power meant no $$$,no banks, and no supplies.

So..it doesnt have to be an extreme "zombie" event for people to be drawn to something .


Lot's of folks havent been through events that lasted more than 2-3 days, and most people "get by" during that time. Once it exceeds that 5-7 day time frame you really start to see things/people break down...

dont underestimate what the people around you will do when their " normal" life if not normal anymore....

YMMV

bdcochran
04-04-2012, 05:28
I liked Bolster's comments about cranky professors.

I think that most people would concede that having a rural redoubt with trained alert neighbors, including a medical doctor, would enhance survival. However, it isn't the reality and simply pounding that rural is "better" than urban isn't helpful.:tongueout:

I knew a retired Marine Colonel who has a redoubt in the Sierras. He is snowed in a few months a year. He is as prepared as a person can be. I trained on his property and on a different occasion private property of another person nearby. If, in normal times, a person could get there from Los Angeles on a tank of gasoline and a couple of 5 gallon filled cans, a person can do the same when shtf, except when the area is snowed in.

The area is idyllic and near the Pacific Crest Trail. Thousands of people go to the area in the spring, summer and fall. Everyone of them is probably thinking that they could live off the land up in the Sierras if shtf. And, many will go. These include car hunters, people with cars and towing off road vehicles and the list goes on and on.

The good Colonel will not be dealing with a VC unit that will retreat. He will be dealing with hungry people who appreciate that he has a house, food, and horses.

The best you can do (and this includes people who own cars and are rural, suburban, and urban) is set up your family cars so that you can stay where you are if shtf and have a plan for each member of your family (including elementary school children) so that you don't fly around like a chicken with his head chopped off (yes, we used to chop off the heads and they would fly around when I was a kid).:faint:

Donn57
04-04-2012, 08:08
No thinking about it they will.
I've been through many minor SHTF events down here( hurricanes,tornados etc). Back in 04' we had 3 iirc Canes slam into Florida in a 1.5 month period. In one night, where i worked and lived over 80+ families homes were lost in minutes in the middle of the night- wanna know what its like dealing with that many people at 2Am in teh wind and rain...it's real fun.When the second Cane hit less than 12 days later even more lost their homes. By that time we had been with out power for around 10 of those days. Day temps ranged around 95-98f, with 100% humidty. fun times.
Around day 10 i was on my porch, cooking dinner on the coleman stove. Defrosted steak( as food defrosted from the freezer we ate it), canned corn and some instant mashed potatoes. Since our area was pretty torn up, and me being young i would OC. ya know the whole " omg shtf gotta be the armed super hero.."


It seems you missed the whole "grey man" point. Sitting on your front porch cooking steaks isn't really trying not to be noticed.

Bren
04-04-2012, 08:21
Urban and suburban residence.

What is your plan if a major SHTF senario ( Civil unrest, solar EMP, terrist attacks, major fuel stortages, etc.) happens and you can't for whatever reason bug out. What is your defense plan?

Shoot people messing around my house.

It's like when you and your friend are running from a bear - you don't have to beat the bear, you just have to beat your friend. In this case, you don't have to beat all of the bad guys, you just have to be a less desirable target than your neighbor.

If that fails, get a sign like this:
http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/GunControl/Humor/NeighborNotArmed.jpg

Dexters
04-04-2012, 08:53
It seems you missed the whole "grey man" point. Sitting on your front porch cooking steaks isn't really trying not to be noticed.

I have to agree with that. It is like watering you lawn while the person next store is dying of thirst.

Having said that a truly hungry person might smell the food cooking indoors unless all the windows were closed. Hunger does tend to do heighten the smelling sense.

My suggestion would have been to cut the meat and cook it in a stew on a small backpacker stove indoors - window open for safety.

lawman800
04-04-2012, 09:31
Most events, nothing different than just sitting it out. Los Angeles has had its share of big earthquakes and fires and we just move on... and even the LA Riots weren't so bad unless you were near the epicenter for the most part. All that I experienced was a lot less traffic on the freeway during the riots and a lot of fires lighting up the night when I look toward that area. Live went on as usual.

If it was that major and people had to shore up a bit around here... well, I live in a cul-de-sac of sorts... big U-shaped street with nobody coming through that don't live there or visiting someone there. Mostly retired people, not doing much with their day.

I'll probably black out as much as I can just to keep quiet, fortify some windows and doors. Lock up the side gates solidly with my Kryptonite chains and locks so people can't just walk in casually. Put my dog in the front yard, maybe... or just let her roam the backyard.

I have a few vehicles I can back up and block off the front of my house too and leave one narrow access way to form a choke point to get in. Of course, people can jump over the cars if they want but it's not going to be easy and the car alarms will go off.

Sure, they can just bomb and burn the cars, but at that point, you got other things to worry about if they are going that far.

thesurefire
04-04-2012, 09:59
Around day 10 i was on my porch, cooking dinner on the coleman stove. Defrosted steak( as food defrosted from the freezer we ate it), canned corn and some instant mashed potatoes. Since our area was pretty torn up, and me being young i would OC.

Three people that i know lived 3-8 doors down, drifted down to my porch while i cooked. None of them were nice.
" come on you got plenty share with us.."
"can i get some..."


First there is no way I'll ever OC a pistol. Whats the advantage? Maybe a draw thats .5 seconds faster? The disadvantage is you lose all element of surprise, which is a major detriment. Open carry is a good way to get shot in my mind.

You certainly are not sending the message "I'm a safe, helpful, prepared individual and I might be a benefit to your group." I see OC as saying "I think I'm a badass who wants to try to intimidate you with my 100 dollar highpoint and take your stuff, by force if I need to." The whole point of greyman is doing what everyone else does.

Did everyone else OC a gun? No. You blew OPSEC with just that.

Did everyone else grill steak on their porch? No. You again Blew OPSEC twice here, first you let everyone know you had food, and probably lots if you're eating steak. You also let them know you had fuel. Was everyone else grilling? No they weren't or they wouldn't have been hungry. :upeyes:

Again, how hard is it to just do what everyone else does? If everyone else is whining about being hungry you say "yeah man could really go for a steak right now." You do not grill one in front of them. :whistling:

Had I been in your situation I would have been CC (yes you can CC in a normal teeshirt and gym shorts)

I also would have done all the cooking indoors, probably in the most isolated part of the house with any windows in that room closed. No one had to know you had steak and corn, let alone smell you cooking it.

The point of preps is to survive, not to show off and rub it in everyone else's face. Some people seem to forget that, and if they do so in a real event they probably will pay with all their hard sought preps.

Good basic security such as bared windows, in good style, rose or other similarly prickly bushes, line of sight around the house, the ability to illuminate that area easily with either NV or a good light, and situational awareness, and heavy doors, deadbolts, and reinforced windows (even just 3M tape) coupled with the grey man theory of not showing off your stuff because you cant wait to say "I told you so." Should pretty much take care of people ever knowing about my preps, let alone begging for or stealing them.

I heard a story about a guy in Katrina that rushed out and bought a genny and a bunch of gas. He ran it keep his AC and fridge on. About 7 days in one night someone stole it. It was sitting in his backyard chained to a tree. He hadn't even gotten around to getting a lock to even lock the chain together.

This would have had a much smaller chance of happening if he had put the genny somewhere where it was hard to hear. OPSEC matters. It matters much much more than I think people give it credit for.

cyrsequipment
04-04-2012, 10:01
Double post...

cyrsequipment
04-04-2012, 10:02
The last part of your statement is correct and reality! Are city vombies worse than rural vombies? :supergrin: Yes, some here believe that is true.

What the heck is a Vombie???

City Zombies = Crack

Country Zombies = Meth

Both are getting bath salts if they don't have them already.

Protus
04-04-2012, 11:08
First there is no way I'll ever OC a pistol. Whats the advantage? Maybe a draw thats .5 seconds faster? The disadvantage is you lose all element of surprise, which is a major detriment. Open carry is a good way to get shot in my mind.

You certainly are not sending the message "I'm a safe, helpful, prepared individual and I might be a benefit to your group." I see OC as saying "I think I'm a badass who wants to try to intimidate you with my 100 dollar highpoint and take your stuff, by force if I need to." The whole point of greyman is doing what everyone else does.

Did everyone else OC a gun? No. You blew OPSEC with just that.

Did everyone else grill steak on their porch? No. You again Blew OPSEC twice here, first you let everyone know you had food, and probably lots if you're eating steak. You also let them know you had fuel. Was everyone else grilling? No they weren't or they wouldn't have been hungry. :upeyes:

Again, how hard is it to just do what everyone else does? If everyone else is whining about being hungry you say "yeah man could really go for a steak right now." You do not grill one in front of them. :whistling:

Had I been in your situation I would have been CC (yes you can CC in a normal teeshirt and gym shorts)

I also would have done all the cooking indoors, probably in the most isolated part of the house with any windows in that room closed. No one had to know you had steak and corn, let alone smell you cooking it.

The point of preps is to survive, not to show off and rub it in everyone else's face. Some people seem to forget that, and if they do so in a real event they probably will pay with all their hard sought preps.

Good basic security such as bared windows, in good style, rose or other similarly prickly bushes, line of sight around the house, the ability to illuminate that area easily with either NV or a good light, and situational awareness, and heavy doors, deadbolts, and reinforced windows (even just 3M tape) coupled with the grey man theory of not showing off your stuff because you cant wait to say "I told you so." Should pretty much take care of people ever knowing about my preps, let alone begging for or stealing them.

I heard a story about a guy in Katrina that rushed out and bought a genny and a bunch of gas. He ran it keep his AC and fridge on. About 7 days in one night someone stole it. It was sitting in his backyard chained to a tree. He hadn't even gotten around to getting a lock to even lock the chain together.

This would have had a much smaller chance of happening if he had put the genny somewhere where it was hard to hear. OPSEC matters. It matters much much more than I think people give it credit for.

1st off it would have been illegal for me to CC where i was at.As i did not have a permit.It was also dark out, and honestly my city has some crime issues , so i felt safer than setting it on the counter 15ft away.OC on the other hand is legal in my AO. ( and yes others did OC during that time).

2nd i wasnt about to cook on a coleman stove indoors with windows closed and boarded up with plywood when avg indoor temps were above 85f at NIGHT.

There was no showing off or I told you so's( so dont assume thats what i did by cooking outdoors) . Each AM we actually did coffee rounds to most of the people around us, we exchanged info ( we had radio's and other comms ) since there was no power,tv,newspapers.We were the only ones out of all of our neighbors who had the ability to do so, we would even help cook meals for some of the neighbors who had kids as well as the days went on.

I was helping my community at the time as well, cutting through walls to help people get out of their homes the AM after the storm, helping them remove tree's from blocked roads and when my neighbors roof went flying off, i helped carry their kids into our home(even though my roof was leaking ), put them up in dry sleeping clothes and bags in teh driest room we had.

Wanna know something else, i lost my home( we had to move to a new townhome after the 1st storm) ,2 new cars destroyed and around 50% of our belongings that same night everyone else did. Yet I still helped my neighbors..

I know why some would jump to conclusion's because i only told a story about "food smell" and did not relate the whole 30+ day mess we went through back then. I remember being on a larger survival forum than this, showing off my so awesome at the time "preps" prior to the storms...then afterward's, posting that none of the fancy gear/guns etc ever came into play.

Everyone wants to talk about "graymen" and re-building and opsec use . There's a time and event for each and each event is different and the levels at which you employ them changes imho per event.
At the time of these storms it was more important for me and my wife to reach out and help our neighbors.those same neighbors for a few years all helped keep our little section of the world be safer( watching each others places, helping when they could etc) for us to live in.

Now.. As to all you brought up. It easy to talk about "what i would do...." and from what i've found most of time that's all it is talk.You assume way to much in your reply, from what others did, to what i own,how i acted and to how those people reacted to the event,hell even my states laws. But thanks for the "how to" that's full of assumptions and over flowing with " i read " some where's on the web type advice verse real world knowledge.




YMMV

Bolster
04-04-2012, 11:14
I also would have done all the cooking indoors, probably in the most isolated part of the house with any windows in that room closed.

That's just not a good idea with a camp stove. CO buildup can be deadly.

thesurefire
04-04-2012, 17:13
1st off it would have been illegal for me to CC where i was at.As i did not have a permit.


Then getting a permit would have been a good preparation.


2nd i wasnt about to cook on a coleman stove indoors with windows closed and boarded up with plywood when avg indoor temps were above 85f at NIGHT.


Why not use passive cooling to regulate the temperature?


There was no showing off or I told you so's( so dont assume thats what i did by cooking outdoors) .


So what message do you think you sent by cooking food in front of hungry people?



I was helping my community at the time as well, cutting through walls to help people get out of their homes the AM after the storm, helping them remove tree's from blocked roads and when my neighbors roof went flying off, i helped carry their kids into our home(even though my roof was leaking ), put them up in dry sleeping clothes and bags in teh driest room we had.


I'm glad to hear that because I think community is vital.


Wanna know something else, i lost my home( we had to move to a new townhome after the 1st storm) ,2 new cars destroyed and around 50% of our belongings that same night everyone else did. Yet I still helped my neighbors..


Again, everybody working together is important. I'm not saying I to sit in a chair and laugh at other misfortunes, I'm happy to help people up to the point where helping them hurts my chances of survival. Being a good neighbor isnt the same thing as broadcasting you have resources that could potentially be valuable to others.


I know why some would jump to conclusion's because i only told a story about "food smell" and did not relate the whole 30+ day mess we went through back then.


I understand there are a variety of factor that contribute into why you did what you did. I agree with some of them and dont agree with others.




Everyone wants to talk about "graymen" and re-building and opsec use . There's a time and event for each and each event is different and the levels at which you employ them changes imho per event.


I fully agree.


At the time of these storms it was more important for me and my wife to reach out and help our neighbors.those same neighbors for a few years all helped keep our little section of the world be safer( watching each others places, helping when they could etc) for us to live in.


Thats your call to make. However its important to note employing the grayman strategy and helping your neighbors are not mutually exclusive.


Now.. As to all you brought up. It easy to talk about "what i would do...." and from what i've found most of time that's all it is talk.


Given my post count, join date, and signature I find this statement comical.



You assume way to much in your reply, from what others did, to what i own,how i acted and to how those people reacted to the event,hell even my states laws. But thanks for the "how to" that's full of assumptions and over flowing with " i read " some where's on the web type advice verse real world knowledge.
YMMV

Really? You told me how you acted, that's what I responded to. I read your thread you posted about the hurricane on another forum, and I know you were at the time in Florida, a state that allows CC, so I had facts I used that knowledge.

Anyone who fails to learn from others is ignorant at best and stupid at worst. I've been through more in life than any of you know or ever will.

You're actually the one that is making erroneous assumptions. Would it matter if I told you I grew up in the collapse of the soviet union starving and had neighbors who tried to steal food so my family cooked in a basement with all the windows closed because if someone else smelled it they would come steal it, or worse tell the government and they would come take it? No, because you instantly assume I'm talking out my ass, which is fine.

The important point is someones prior experiences have absolutely no relevance to the quality of their ideas. In my mind, that is the single greatest thing about internet forums, IDEAS. I've never been through a hurricane. That doesnt mean I'm incapable of applying things I've learned from other situations to the similar problems. Remember how crazy and stupid that bill gates guy was for dropping out of college and starting that weird computer company?

For the record cooking indoors is dangerous and you should always have C02 sensors in your home.

Donn57
04-04-2012, 18:15
1st off it would have been illegal for me to CC where i was at.As i did not have a permit.It was also dark out, and honestly my city has some crime issues , so i felt safer than setting it on the counter 15ft away.OC on the other hand is legal in my AO. ( and yes others did OC during that time).


Sorry, I thought you were in Florida. I didn't know there was anywhere in Florida where it is illegal to CC on your own property.

Protus
04-04-2012, 18:24
no need to derail more...

Protus
04-04-2012, 18:37
Sorry, I thought you were in Florida. I didn't know there was anywhere in Florida where it is illegal to CC on your own property.

are you saying you can CC with out a permit?? that doesnt sound right?

how the state see's concealed-
“Concealed firearm” means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person.

either way, rather not derail anymore. like i posted above.

Aceman
04-04-2012, 20:29
Batten down the hatches, arm the family, go on watch. I think that about covers it.

Comment: Work with the neighborhood to secure the perimeter, which is not too tough here.

Medium term plans are control the bridge for fun & profit.

lawman800
04-05-2012, 01:19
Even in the Socialist paradise of California, aka Kommiefornistan, we get to CC on our own property, residential or business.

TangoFoxtrot
04-05-2012, 04:34
Shoot people messing around my house.

It's like when you and your friend are running from a bear - you don't have to beat the bear, you just have to beat your friend. In this case, you don't have to beat all of the bad guys, you just have to be a less desirable target than your neighbor.

If that fails, get a sign like this:
http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/GunControl/Humor/NeighborNotArmed.jpg

That sign is Awesome! :rofl:

TangoFoxtrot
04-05-2012, 04:40
Batten down the hatches, arm the family, go on watch. I think that about covers it.

Comment: Work with the neighborhood to secure the perimeter, which is not too tough here.

Medium term plans are control the bridge for fun & profit.

Thats all I can do myself. The one problem is the old lady who lives next door is a B****. She will be the first to go in a SHTF senario so I have to watch that flank even harder. The other neighbors I'm not sure about.

lawman800
04-05-2012, 09:23
Speaking of neighbors who don't like guns... I had a ***** of a roommate (a long long long time ago) who didn't like guns but I didn't know that until one day, I was cleaning my gun and she just freaked! (we've only been roommates for a few days when that happened)

So she cries she wants it out of the house, she's afraid, she doesn't believe in guns, guns are dangerous, she doesn't ever want to see it, yada yada yada, all the liberal ****....

So, I say respectfully that I am fully fine with it, I will keep it in my room only and never bring it out in front of her, but I will carry it on me when I go in and out of the house as it is my carry gun, but she won't see it again.

I added that because she feels so strongly about it, I will also make sure that when I am in my room and someone breaks in and rapes her, I will quietly stay in my room and not take my gun out to defend her because it will upset her to see the gun.

She immediately changes her tune and says, "Well, of course in that instance you have to use your gun to defend me!"

I demurely resisted and said that I really didn't want to offend her because I respect her view on guns... and I left it at that. She never brought it up again.

callihan_44
04-05-2012, 19:10
I think having some sort of survival plan for any situation is probably a good idea, if SHTF when Im at home all is good...however I commute to the city to work and if something happens when Im there I have a couple of people I could hole up with. I personally like living out in the sticks away from the mess of the city, and I agree if your worried about SHTF-get out of the heavy populated area now....

Dexters
04-06-2012, 09:08
if your worried about SHTF-get out of the heavy populated area now....

First list what SHTF scenarios you know about.
Then research them and their probability of them happening.
Then prioritize your prepping based upon the above.

Then research SHTF other scenarios and their probability of happening.

If you are choosing where you live and work based upon your fear of SHTF the above should help reduce the fear.

If you are choosing where you live and work based upon SHTF, then you have had a mental SHTF of your own making that created your own world of SHTF.