Frame Mods Still A No-No! [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DannyR
04-03-2012, 14:42
When the Gen3's came out, many, including myself, did not like the finger grooves. I asked GSSF several years ago if I could remove them. The answer was no, except for Unlimited Category. Now that we have Gen4's with a smaller grip, I asked GSSF if I could do a grip reduction on my trusty Gen2, just to match the size of a Gen4. Again, the answer is no, except for Unlimited. Bottom line, NO FRAME MODIFICATIONS!

This is not a subject for debate. It's GSSF's game and GSSF's rules. It is that simple. Nothing to argue about or debate. Just play by the rules. The beauty of GSSF is the simplicity of the sport. Stock means Stock. If you modify the frame or the slide, it's Unlimited or nothing at all.

OrGlocker
04-03-2012, 14:51
Danny that's why they call it "STOCK", LOL

Glockrunner
04-08-2012, 08:47
When the Gen3's came out, many, including myself, did not like the finger grooves. I asked GSSF several years ago if I could remove them. The answer was no, except for Unlimited Category. Now that we have Gen4's with a smaller grip, I asked GSSF if I could do a grip reduction on my trusty Gen2, just to match the size of a Gen4. Again, the answer is no, except for Unlimited. Bottom line, NO FRAME MODIFICATIONS!

This is not a subject for debate. It's GSSF's game and GSSF's rules. It is that simple. Nothing to argue about or debate. Just play by the rules. The beauty of GSSF is the simplicity of the sport. Stock means Stock. If you modify the frame or the slide, it's Unlimited or nothing at all.

I would have never known that had you not posted this Danny, Thanks.

So, stipling of the frame would fall in the same catagory right?

I wonder, "Why isn't this covered in the RO Briefing?"

SARDG
04-08-2012, 11:58
I would have never known that...

So, stipling of the frame would fall in the same catagory right?

I wonder, "Why isn't this covered in the RO Briefing?"
Now Bob, you know that those 0800 briefings frequently don't get rolling until 0820-0830 - and that leaves perhaps 1/2 hour for the brief before the ROs should be on the line with the first shot downrange.

Barring more formal training, GSSF will have to continue to expect that ROs come to the table with basic rule knowledge. Lots of stuff to know though, and that's why an educated shooter can help themselves out at these matches.

So the mantra continues for ROs and non-ROs alike - read the rules.

But to specifically address your question:
40.40
Specific Illegal Modifications in the “Stock” Divisions:
1. Any non-post and notch sight. This includes “Ghost Ring” or laser, electronic and optical sights. Please note that fiber-optic and express sights are permitted.
2. Wrap-around “grip sleeves” on magazines.
3. Aftermarket component parts to be used in the Amateur-Civilian, Amateur-Guardian, Amateur and Master-Subcompact, Amateur and Master- Heavy Metal, Amateur and Master-Stock, or Amateur and Master-Competition divisions..
4. Aftermarket barrels.
5. Aftermarket recoil spring guide/recoil reducer assemblies.
6. Aftermarket extended slide stop levers.
7. Firing pins (modified/aftermarket).
8. Connectors (modified/aftermarket).
9. Metallic magazine well “funnels” or “slugs.”
10. Lights or other barrel weights including GLOCK-produced light/laser units.
11. Aftermarket metallic replacement frames.
12. Any modification deemed by the Range Master to create an unfair competitive advantage.
13. Non-factory “stippling.”(Stippling that is burned or cut into the polymer frame)

BTW, are you and Pat coming to Reevesville?

Glockrunner
04-08-2012, 13:11
Yes we'll be there

Don At PC
04-08-2012, 13:16
Yes we'll be there

Are you wearing a dress and shoot too?????:rofl::tongueout::faint:

Don

RonS
04-08-2012, 14:15
So, are you saying that they have a "Stock Answer" to this question? :)

DannyR
04-08-2012, 14:26
yes, we have a stock answer, and there will be strong language in next year's 2013 Glock report defining stock frames.

SARDG
04-08-2012, 15:12
yes, we have a stock answer, and there will be strong language in next year's 2013 Glock report defining stock frames.
What did you do Danny; stir the pot over in Mecca? :whistling:

njl
04-08-2012, 15:59
Why should they allow grip reductions just because gen4 is SF? Want a smaller grip, buy a SF/gen4 gun. That way GSSF helps sell more Glocks.


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RonS
04-08-2012, 16:02
I can see both sides, but I don't understand how someone can read the explanation of the reasoning behind the rules and then ask about exceptions. Pretty much any exceptions would void the entire basis of "stock".

uc1twinbee
04-08-2012, 16:42
You know there are some on here that are always trying to bend the rules! They ask the same question(s) several different ways. :shocked:

It is good that next year's 2013 Glock report will be defining stock frames. Maybe that will stop some of the questions and people will stop trying to bend the rules. :supergrin:

Glockrunner
04-08-2012, 17:20
Are you wearing a dress and shoot too?????:rofl::tongueout::faint:

Don
I used to wear a dress almost every day to work in, why stop now?

SARDG
04-08-2012, 17:21
...It is good that next year's 2013 Glock report will be defining stock frames. Maybe that will stop some of the questions and people will stop trying to bend the rules. :supergrin:
But, but, but... no one actually reads the rules.

S.Kargoh
04-08-2012, 18:34
Applying skateboard tape to the frame is modifying frame in my eyes. But it is legal.

njl
04-08-2012, 18:40
Applying skateboard tape to the frame is modifying frame in my eyes. But it is legal.

Like Agrip and a Hogue grip sleeve, it's non-permanent / removable.

TexasGlockster
04-08-2012, 18:47
Now Bob, you know that those 0800 briefings frequently don't get rolling until 0820-0830 - and that leaves perhaps 1/2 hour for the brief before the ROs should be on the line with the first shot downrange.

Barring more formal training, GSSF will have to continue to expect that ROs come to the table with basic rule knowledge. Lots of stuff to know though, and that's why an educated shooter can help themselves out at these matches.

So the mantra continues for ROs and non-ROs alike - read the rules.

But to specifically address your question:
40.40
Specific Illegal Modifications in the “Stock” Divisions:
1. Any non-post and notch sight. This includes “Ghost Ring” or laser, electronic and optical sights. Please note that fiber-optic and express sights are permitted.
2. Wrap-around “grip sleeves” on magazines.
3. Aftermarket component parts to be used in the Amateur-Civilian, Amateur-Guardian, Amateur and Master-Subcompact, Amateur and Master- Heavy Metal, Amateur and Master-Stock, or Amateur and Master-Competition divisions..
4. Aftermarket barrels.
5. Aftermarket recoil spring guide/recoil reducer assemblies.
6. Aftermarket extended slide stop levers.
7. Firing pins (modified/aftermarket).
8. Connectors (modified/aftermarket).
9. Metallic magazine well “funnels” or “slugs.”
10. Lights or other barrel weights including GLOCK-produced light/laser units.
11. Aftermarket metallic replacement frames.
12. Any modification deemed by the Range Master to create an unfair competitive advantage.
13. Non-factory “stippling.”(Stippling that is burned or cut into the polymer frame)

BTW, are you and Pat coming to Reevesville?

Interesting, I recently posted a question (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410168) about whether or not it was illegal to do a trigger guard undercut and was told that it is absolutely 100% illegal. These rules don't seem to address that issue. The closest provision against such a modification would be #12 and only that because it is so vague. Before I get flamed, I have already decided not to do this, but I'm curious where/if the rules address that particular modification.

Njanear
04-08-2012, 19:37
Interesting, I recently posted a question (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410168) about whether or not it was illegal to do a trigger guard undercut and was told that it is absolutely 100% illegal. These rules don't seem to address that issue. The closest provision against such a modification would be #12 and only that because it is so vague. Before I get flamed, I have already decided not to do this, but I'm curious where/if the rules address that particular modification.

Rule 40.40 only serves to offer examples of non-approved modifications, not serve as the list of all exclusions to Stock.

If you look at Rule 40.20, the last paragraph reads:

"If any component is not, nor has ever been available from GLOCK, or if the firearm has been physically modified except as otherwise specifically noted below, it is not "stock" and is therefore restricted to use in the Amateur and Master-Unlimited division only."

The specific rule that it is referencing with the wording "except as otherwise specifically noted below" is Rule 40.30: Allowable Modifications to "Stock". In the body of this rule, there is no provision listed for any such frame modifications, so therefore, such modifications aren't legal for "Stock".

I hope this helps. :wavey:

OrGlocker
04-08-2012, 21:13
Applying skateboard tape to the frame is modifying frame in my eyes. But it is legal.

True but you are not altering the frame permanently, I think that's the differance.

Tazz10m
11-20-2012, 23:13
Rule 40.40 only serves to offer examples of non-approved modifications, not serve as the list of all exclusions to Stock.

If you look at Rule 40.20, the last paragraph reads:

"If any component is not, nor has ever been available from GLOCK, or if the firearm has been physically modified except as otherwise specifically noted below, it is not "stock" and is therefore restricted to use in the Amateur and Master-Unlimited division only."

The specific rule that it is referencing with the wording "except as otherwise specifically noted below" is Rule 40.30: Allowable Modifications to "Stock". In the body of this rule, there is no provision listed for any such frame modifications, so therefore, such modifications aren't legal for "Stock".

I hope this helps. :wavey:



Can somebody please copy and paste the actually applicable GSSF rules here? I can't get the GSSF pdf file to open on my stupid computer. Thanks! Last i knew "AGrip (tm) was specifically specified as legal for stock Glock GSSF competition.

DannyR
11-21-2012, 06:45
Tazz,

It's always good to hear from you.:wavey:


40.30 Allowable Modifications to “Stock”
• “Hogue Grip”-type sleeves, “A-Grip” panels, “skateboard tape” or other grip-enhancing materials that do
not materially alter the function of the stock firearm
• Slide and barrel stripping and/or refinishing
• Pearce Grip, Inc. grip extenders only on G26, G27,
G29, G30, G33, G36 and G39 magazines
• Aftermarket replacement non-metallic base plates on
magazines
• Post and notch sights (“patridge” sights) excluding
any sight requiring slide modifications. Please note
that fiber-optic and “express” sights are approved.
You may use any combination of GLOCK-produced
firearms parts that do not result in a significant competitive advantage in the Stock divisions and that are,
in the sole opinion of the match armorer, safe to utilize.

HexHead
11-21-2012, 07:36
• Pearce Grip, Inc. grip extenders only on G26, G27,
G29, G30, G33, G36 and G39 magazines


Oh, good. I've got one on the 4th mag for my 26 at my wife's request. Nice to know it's legal. I'll probably shoot Sub-Compact too now. Thanks for posting that.

Tazz10m
11-21-2012, 16:01
Hi DannyR! :wavey: Yeah, i don't get in here near enough... it's like being away from family for too long!

Thanks for posting those rules. I really appreciate it.

njl
11-21-2012, 19:13
Hey Tazz. Been a while. On the beach with girls in bikinis...in WA state? I doubt it...especially this time of year.

Tazz10m
11-22-2012, 06:09
Hey Tazz. Been a while. On the beach with girls in bikinis...in WA state? I doubt it...especially this time of year.

HaH! Little do you know, WA Girls are HOT!!!

(Especially in Bikini's dancing around a HOT BBQ!)

Steaks on the grill! :supergrin:

ede
11-22-2012, 06:31
I was working on my G17 a while back and the screw driver slipped a couple time and put a few deep grooves on each side of the grip. Is my gun now legal only for Unlimited since the gouges are now permanate?

Glockrunner
11-23-2012, 07:56
I was working on my G17 a while back and the screw driver slipped a couple time and put a few deep grooves on each side of the grip. Is my gun now legal only for Unlimited since the gouges are now permanate?

While the words deep groove/scratch might invoke a picture in my mind, it could very well be different in another. So, I would say ASK a GSSF Offical at your next GSSF Match to make a call on the so called scratch(s).

I think that would be the right answer, you?:cool:

Screw driver? You been using a screw driver?:rofl:

SARDG
11-23-2012, 08:29
...Screw driver? You been using a screw driver?:rofl:
...and probably a 2 lb sledge. :tongueout:

njl
11-23-2012, 10:15
I was working on my G17 a while back and the screw driver slipped a couple time and put a few deep grooves on each side of the grip. Is my gun now legal only for Unlimited since the gouges are now permanate?

You what?

Seeing as there are no screws on a Glock, I find it very hard to believe you slipped with a screw driver (several times on each side of the frame...symetrical too?) and accidentally put grooves in each side of the grip.

Assuming you're not joking, cover them with a grip sleeve / Agrip, or shoot it in unlimited...or like everyone else shooting modded Glocks outside unlimited, feign ignorance and hope nobody notices/cares.

"What do you mean, I can't shoot AmCiv with a brass magwell and tactical light?" I wonder if anyone's shown up yet with one of those contraptions that turns a Glock pistol into an SBR?

ede
11-25-2012, 05:07
I have a couple Glocks with a screw instead of the trigger pin. I think several others here do too.

Glockrunner
11-25-2012, 05:40
I have a couple Glocks with a screw instead of the trigger pin. I think several others here do too.
Yea, those double-headed screws can be a pain to remove after 5000 rounds.

njl
11-25-2012, 09:20
I have a couple Glocks with a screw instead of the trigger pin. I think several others here do too.

Sounds like those would be unlimited guns anyway.

PM720
11-25-2012, 10:12
Sounds like those would be unlimited guns anyway.

Yeah, but take the dot and comp off, put the stock trigger and striker back in and swap out the lightened slide and there you go, right back to Stock! Well, except for the "damaged" grip! :whistling:

Scott

Tazz10m
11-28-2012, 16:24
I like njl's idea... put an AGrip over it....:whistling: