Topics Not Discussed in S&P - add yours here [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Dexters
04-04-2012, 09:29
A couple of posters in another thread mentioned that S&P has been talked out. I do not think that is true. Here are a few topics that, from my memory have not.

So the SHTF and we don't know how long it will last.

Safety & Security items
-Fire avoidance, control & suppression
-Carbon monoxide and other type of poisoning avoidance
-Shifts and guards
-How to cook so that others nearby do not smell it?
-How to get overweight person to loose weight so outsiders do not become aware you have food.

Physical Health
-Human waste disposal
-Other garbage disposal
-Exercise during the event
-Should those that do hard labor get more food/calories then those that don't?
-Dead bodies - what to do? neighbors, etc
-Pests - rodents, insects, packs of dogs
-Vitamins

Mental Health
-Children - Psychological issues due to events
-Entertainment
-What to do when mental health meds run out?


Communication/Organizational
-How to deal with people that do not follow the rules of your group?
-Leadership styles
-Group dynamics
-Interpersonal Skills
-Problem avoidance and resolution
-Inventory lists

Other
-Washing clothes - no power
-Clothes no longer fit due to loss of weight

Misc.
Non prepper (family/friend/co worker) knows you are prepared. They show up at your door. What do you do? How do you turn them away?


What other topics have been omitted?

If you want to discuss a particular topic - START A NEW THREAD. Just list the topics here.

Bolster
04-04-2012, 09:35
I saw that exchange, and didn't even agree with the premise: That if something's been discussed in a previous thread, the correct answer's been given and the topic's done. My response here:

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18798168&postcount=25

Topic I want most is a step-by-step on how to set up a solar battery charging station.

Next would be cooking with a solar oven (and building it?).

Third would be converting a solar oven to a desalination unit.

cyrsequipment
04-04-2012, 09:41
A Misc.
Non prepper (family/friend/co worker) knows you are prepared. They show up at your door. What do you do? How do you turn them away?


This was discussed several times, the general consensus of the rambo-wannabes was to shoot them and either eat their bodies or feed them to the dogs.....

quake
04-04-2012, 09:51
I think the guys' point in the other thread wasn't that there's nothing anyone can learn, but rather that the principles and concepts haven't changed. Not just an S&P application; just pick one.

Whether we're talking about prepping, driving, cooking, or canoeing - new equipment & advances come around, sure; but not really new principles & concepts.


So the SHTF and we don't know how long it will last.

-Safety & Security items
I'd add 'physical security' as well. Locks, bars, gates; anything to do with physical reinforcement of buildings/windows etc.


-Physical Health
Natural (herbal/mineral; ie non-pharmaceutical) cures & treatments

Bolster
04-04-2012, 09:52
Thinking this over, I do have a criticism. This subforum has lots of "I've Got" posts, and not enough "How To" posts. I realize part of the motivation of posting on a forum is to brag and nurture self-esteem... but explaining the hows and whys would be valuable.

@ Quake - principles and concepts don't change? Maybe not for the medieval church, but for modern science the principles are constantly being modified and re-written. I think we are vastly overestimating our own capacities if we think the principles and concepts of prepping have been forever established and there's little more to do than rehearse.

And if they are stated at an level abstract enough to be inviolate, then they're so abstract as to be relatively useless.

quake
04-04-2012, 09:57
Thinking this over, I do have a criticism. This subforum has lots of "I've Got" posts, and not enough "How To" posts. I realize part of the motivation of posting on a forum is to brag, but explaining the hows and whys would be valuable.

:supergrin: Bingo. My point exactly with the comment about "principles & concepts". New products (whether valuable gear or just toys) come & go, but the principles & concepts that those products are meant to address, really don't.

quake
04-04-2012, 10:16
...@ Quake - principles and concepts don't change? Maybe not for the medieval church, but for modern science the principles are constantly being modified and re-written. I think we are vastly overestimating our own capacities if we think the principles and concepts of prepping have been forever established.

And if they are stated at an level abstract enough to be inviolate, then they're so abstract as to be relatively useless.
I posted my above reply while you posted your edit and I missed it in passing.

"Principles and concepts" don't change imo. Scientific principles (gravity, biology, chemistry, thermodynamics, whatever) are absolutely unchanging; our understanding and application of those scientific principles change all the time. The books are constantly being re-written, but that's not at all due to any change in the reality of scientific principles, it's simply due to our error or omossion in the previous book version.

The things necessary to "surviving" - ie, keeping a person safe & alive - are the same now as they were when Thak and Grog lived in a cave. Air, water, shelter and food are primary, and largely in that order. Security follows, whether it's security from mastadons or MS-13. The basics (food, water, etc) have seen tremendous changes in the technology & approaches to dealing with or acquiring them, but not at all in the need to maintain them.

Again, I'm not saying there's nothing new to learn. I learn things here regularly. But it's learning of a new item, learning of a new application, or learning of an old item/application/priniciple of which I was simply ignorant. Doesn't mean the principle or concept changed; it means I filled a hole in my personal ignorance.

Maybe a better way to put it is this - the principles, concepts, and physical laws for Lance Armstrong are exactly the same as for a kid with his first bike. The kid can learn a ton, but so can Lance Armstrong. Their learning is evidence of trying to better understand, and better apply, the concepts, physical laws, and equipment involved. Their learning isn't at all indicative of trying to keep up with any change in the physical laws involved in bicycling.

Bolster
04-04-2012, 10:27
I posted my above reply while you posted your edit ....

My bad. I tend to post and edit. It's a bad habit.

So, I see what you're saying: "you need water" and "seek shelter" are unchanging prep principles.

Then my secondary criticism applies: when stated at an abstract (obvious) level such as that, these principles are not terribly helpful. Imagine if these principles were printed on the bottom of a life raft. The castaway reads, "You'll need water, shelter and food." Not helpful; perhaps even irritating. But if you move away from the abstract to the concrete (how to catch rainwater/fabricate a still/make and bait a hook, rig a canopy), then that's life-saving info.

That's why I'm voting for more "how to" posts here. The philosophical discussions are interesting, but the "how to" discussions are vital. (Yes, I'm aware of the irony that this is a philosophical discussion, but it may yield practical results.)

Anyway bottom line to which we both agree is, no matter how much you know about prepping, there's still lots to learn and much to discuss.

And if you ever do know it all, then it's time to teach others.

Protus
04-04-2012, 11:36
I think the guys' point in the other thread wasn't that there's nothing anyone can learn, but rather that the principles and concepts haven't changed. Not just an S&P application; just pick one.

Whether we're talking about prepping, driving, cooking, or canoeing - new equipment & advances come around, sure; but not really new principles & concepts.

No, your right on with what my point was quake.
All the stuff that Dexter listed, ive seen posted on 100 forums over and over again.Some things dont change much, others do. Some, well it's like the wheel, how many times can you remake it?
As i said in the other threads it's a new spin for a new crowd..not to sound gay, but like clothing fashions. What's old is new.


boslter How to's/ gear/tool review's etc are key to seeing that old( or new to some ) info tested, and tried. Most forums have a major LACK of them. Now, this will sound harsh( and not directed at anyone) but it is easier to read,write or talk about something verse doing it.

For example, years back there was a thread on a forum where folks were talking about different fire to cook/stay warm with while bugging out and keep a low profile. The topic of the dakota pit came up. No one, had really tried it.But they all knew what one was.So on a forum hike me and another guy humped out the food and the 1st night in camp dug one, cooked off it and used it for warmth.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/protus/feb16.jpg
A complete how to was born.
Few trips later, " oh i saw on less strouds show you could eat xxx plant,,,,,"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v54/protus/may41.jpg
And 10 guys tried eating tubers cooked like he did on his show and all agreed to eat leather dipped in dog dung instead afterwards!

The how to's take time and effort(ever hold a camera in one hand and a knife if the other trying to field dress a deer all so 1 guy on some web forum wanted to see how it was done...).
They dont gather a ton of replies or views likea " what if im stranded on the road and the Gov. comes to take my guns" thread .so some folks just dont bother. Then you have the posters who never post how to's/review's who want to couch commando it " well IF i was to do it i would do ,,,,,". After a while the people that do put the effort in to do the how to threads start not to.Especially if they are doing it on their dime and their time.



Ive said it 1000 times, that folks need to get out and test these ideas,skills etc for themselves and not solely go by what was talked about. It's easy to say "what" someone will or can do, verse them actually doing/trying it. In my eye's if you can do it, and know it, and trust it your 1000 times better off than just reading about it.

ymmv

DoctaGlockta
04-04-2012, 11:45
I think EMT has covered most of everything I could have thought of and then some. Now Bolster seems to be taking his place as the S&P thread starter king.

I do see new things discussed here once in a while or at least things I haven't seen before but I've not been here long.

quake
04-04-2012, 14:38
Imagine if these principles were printed on the bottom of a life raft. The castaway reads, "You'll need water, shelter and food." Not helpful; perhaps even irritating. But if you move away from the abstract to the concrete (how to catch rainwater/fabricate a still/make and bait a hook, rig a canopy), then that's life-saving info.
There you go, exactly. Sounds like we agree, but are just saying it differently. In that situation, the castaway doesn't need a list of principles (even principles as true as those); they need a list of instructions. I don’t mean to nitpick semantics, but they’re very different things, and imo it’s very important to be mindful of the difference.

The mind is like a tool cabinet; principles and concepts are drawers in that tool cabinet, and instructions & techniques are the tools in those individual drawers. Someone asking “how to get started in prepping” needs to consider concepts & principles hard and seriously, before they start learning or adopting any techniques; since it’s those principles & concepts that not only determine which techniques are best for them, they’re the very things that determine whether those techniques (or even the concepts addressed by those techniques) are relevant in the first place. IE, the concept of “who & how many am I prepping for” determines whether that person should even care about the techniques of how to store baby formula, alternatives to insulin, etc. It's the concept of "how long am I trying to prep for" that tells a person whether they should bother trying to learn the techniques of solar distillation, or if they should just buy a filter & be done with it, or even just throw some bottled water in the bottom of a freezer and then completely cross the "water" category off their list. If you believe you only need to prep for 72 hours, the 'bottled water in the freezer' thing is a great approach, but if you believe you may end up in a long-term primitive situation, solar distillation makes a lot more sense. I personally don’t care about the storage methods of, or alternatives to, insulin. Some day I might if it becomes an issue for someone I care about or am responsible for; but right now it’s not something that I even have a drawer in my tool box for.

That's why I'm voting for more "how to" posts here. The philosophical discussions are interesting, but the "how to" discussions are vital...
So, instead of “would you eat the neighbors’ kids”, more of a “how to best cook the neighbors’ kids”…? :supergrin:

J/K – I agree with you on preferring more “how to” threads; but admit I tend to latch onto the philosophical and pontificate at times (see above – :embarassed: ). On the “how to” vs. “I’ve got” threads as you mention, it seems like even the “I’ve got” topics have tapered substantially, and we see more of the “how to ________, in ________ situation; but a situation that’s never going to happen. (How to best bug out when the govt bottles up all the highways, how have the characters on “X” tv show changed how you prep, how well do homemade crossbow bolts fly after re-use, etc)


...Anyway bottom line to which we both agree is, no matter how much you know about prepping, there's still lots to learn and much to discuss.

And if you ever do know it all, then it's time to teach others...

:thumbsup: Agree almost completely, but with one exception. If we ever "know it all", there's obviously something we haven't considered. Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Steve Jobs, whoever - smart guys learn new things constantly and improve on yesterday's position. The smartest people who "know it all" even in a scientific discipline, need to be learning constantly as well.

Those who don't accept, or won't admit, that they have more to learn end up as annoyances, stumbling blocks, and trolls.

Bolster
04-04-2012, 15:12
Now Bolster seems to be taking his place as the S&P thread starter king..

I apologize. Won't last long; I have a week while the family is gone and I'm trying to get as many prep items crossed off the list as possible. So very interested in prep advice right now.

So, instead of “would you eat the neighbors’ kids”, more of a “how to best cook the neighbors’ kids”…?

we see more of the “how to ________, in ________ situation; but a situation that’s never going to happen.

1: LOL, and yes, exactly. Whatever happens, happens. If we decide to eat the neighbors' kids we'll need to know which are the nasty bits to avoid. LOL.

2: Yes, it would be nice to see those subside. No denying that there is a "rich fantasy component" to many peoples' prepwork. Maybe that's not all bad, but circling back to reality frequently is an undeniably good thing.

I greatly prefer "probability preparedness," ie, preparing the most for the events that are the most likely. I realize there are others who prefer to prep for the improbable and the unthinkable. To each his own, but it's sad when we spend multiple pages on eating our neighbors (highly improbable) and a new thread on fire preparedness (infinitely more probable) gets a few smartass remarks and dies an early death.

Warp
04-04-2012, 20:03
Would you like to start a thread on fire preparedness? I'm down for that.

Things like extinguisher sizes, type, number, location...familiarity and knowledge of this and their proper use among other family members...stored fuel and other flammable items...location and possible protection of important items (cash, coin, metals, documents, paperwork, etc)...type, number and location of detectors...possible monitoring of detectors...practices regarding open flames in and around the home, including candles, both now and in SHTF (everyone's favorite part, may want to leave that out else it overtakes the entire thread)...

Edit: I just saw that a fire prep thread is already here.

DoctaGlockta
04-04-2012, 20:26
I apologize. Won't last long; I have a week while the family is gone and I'm trying to get as many prep items crossed off the list as possible. So very interested in prep advice right now.





Don't apologize. I dig your threads. Your topics are relevant and useful.