Military dependence on civilians for almost everything [Archive] - Glock Talk

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flw
04-06-2012, 14:17
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?

Glock!9
04-06-2012, 14:22
I think they could have just watched Preppers....:)

acorn42047
04-06-2012, 14:23
Your full of ****.

cyrsequipment
04-06-2012, 14:25
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?

Um, forgive my bluntness, but what the heck are you talking about and what does this have to do with Survival and Preparedness????

oneofthose
04-06-2012, 14:47
"I heard on NPR..." was all the farther I could get. I rarely find valuable insight in their reporting.

kirgi08
04-06-2012, 15:49
You might be suprised.'08.

TangoFoxtrot
04-09-2012, 04:50
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?

When I started my tour in the middleeast in 04 I was at CENTCOM for the first 3 months. All the food services and security around the perimeter was done by civilians..Yes perimeter security done by civilians.:upeyes:

expatman
04-09-2012, 05:00
Yes we civilians still do perimeter security for the mil. We even do it for DoS and embassies. It has been going on for a long time. Many govt. agencies also contract out mobile security to civilian contractors....FYI

hammerkill
04-09-2012, 07:20
In a SHTF scenario the military would be overwhelmed. I remember a truckers strike in the early 70's. No trucks on the road after some nut shot a few. It wouldn't too many guys to throw a monkey wrench into the deal and that's what scares me.

Bren
04-09-2012, 08:11
We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?

Yeah, I was in the Army when we relied on civilians for almost nothing and in the new Army with civilians doing everything. The old one was a LOT better.

Maybe if the civilians would learn to cook and clean like soldiers did, instead of getting by with the minimum expense and effort at avery turn, they'd get more appreciation. It's hard to believe how much lower the quality of the services we get from civilian employees is, in most cases, compared to when it used to be all soldiers.

Bren
04-09-2012, 08:14
When I started my tour in the middleeast in 04 I was at CENTCOM for the first 3 months. All the food services and security around the perimeter was done by civilians..Yes perimeter security done by civilians.:upeyes:

Interesting - I've never seen that, even outside the war zone, like in Kyrgyzstan or Kuwait.

sebecman
04-09-2012, 08:22
I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying

WTF are you talking about here?? As a US citizen I am proud to support the military that protects me and as you say, does the dying.

What exactly do you think they owe us????

:upeyes::upeyes::upeyes:

beatcop
04-09-2012, 08:23
I kind of doubt that the "Army" did anything of the sort. More than likely a few guys, or a company CO thought it would be a cool idea to upgrade the food prep in some dump on a mountain top. The Army has TM's, FM's TB's etc written on everything too include how to take a dump in a cat hole.

As far as base security, yes, civilian contractors handle a lot of it. CSA, Foreign Nationals, etc. Still had MP oversight, but they sat in the towers and manned the ECP's of large bases.

OldArcher
04-09-2012, 08:28
I heard on NPR last week that the US Army has gone to the Mormons to see how they store food stuffs. The NPR reporter didn't give specifics on what the Army was looking at in more detail. The Mormons or US civilians or foreign lands-peoples or for the civilian Army or active duty itself.

Most poeple I meet, don't understand or know that without civilians working on behalf of the military, it would cease to bring the hammer any time, any place, after a very short time. I wonder if the Military has any plans to support the civilians it relys on for almost everything except the dying. We should appreciate these military civilians much more.

Opinions?

There's a reason they're called, "Citizen Soldiers..."

OA, out...

RichardB
04-09-2012, 17:03
Yeah, I was in the Army when we relied on civilians for almost nothing and in the new Army with civilians doing everything. The old one was a LOT better.

Maybe if the civilians would learn to cook and clean like soldiers did, instead of getting by with the minimum expense and effort at avery turn, they'd get more appreciation. It's hard to believe how much lower the quality of the services we get from civilian employees is, in most cases, compared to when it used to be all soldiers.

The old draftee army was inexpensive and there was an unlimited supply of smart cheap labor that rotated through in 2 years. Come the Volunteer Army with much higher paychecks and all kinds of nice barracks, and expensive family support programs; then the bean counters figured out that many jobs could be done more cheaply by civilians who would work all day at the job and not be diverted by all the military distractions that pulled guys away from their work site. Who needs all that military training to work in a dining hall or office? At one Army installation many years ago the manpower conversion rate was one civilian = two soldiers for garrison support jobs.

M1A Shooter
04-09-2012, 21:58
i was suprised to see soldiers working the gates again here at some of our gates at fort campbell. as much as i hated standing gate duty when i was a private, i still didnt think a civilian covering the base was a good idea other than just "creating jobs"

and in A-stan, our platoon was in a FOB with a company of Afghan National Guard soldiers. they ran our perimeter security 24-7.

AK_Stick
04-10-2012, 00:56
The Army uses alot of civilians.


The truly important civilians, are mostly all dual status reserve or NG part time dual status civilians.


We do not "depend" on civilians for almost any critical functions.


Sorry to interrupt your dream.

TangoFoxtrot
04-10-2012, 04:23
Interesting - I've never seen that, even outside the war zone, like in Kyrgyzstan or Kuwait.

Yeah I was surprised too. The Army would fill us in with them to oversee operations. It was a 50/50 mix on civilian quality. Some were ex-military and sharpe and a few were just idiots. I think they need a better system of hiring for security positions. I was glad to have them though it frees up soldiers to do other assignments. The food services people were nationals from all over the middle east. Once I flew north to Iraq, civilian security didn't exist.

TangoFoxtrot
04-10-2012, 04:25
The Army uses alot of civilians.


The truly important civilians, are mostly all dual status reserve or NG part time dual status civilians.


We do not "depend" on civilians for almost any critical functions.


Sorry to interrupt your dream.

Yes they are important. National Guard and Reservist were right along side us being targets as well.

Bren
04-10-2012, 04:55
The old draftee army was inexpensive and there was an unlimited supply of smart cheap labor that rotated through in 2 years. Come the Volunteer Army with much higher paychecks and all kinds of nice barracks, and expensive family support programs; then the bean counters figured out that many jobs could be done more cheaply by civilians who would work all day at the job and not be diverted by all the military distractions that pulled guys away from their work site. Who needs all that military training to work in a dining hall or office? At one Army installation many years ago the manpower conversion rate was one civilian = two soldiers for garrison support jobs.

I'm not that old - I'm talking about the 80's, not the "draftee Army." I still haven't figured out how they get by cheaper when every civilian gets paid more than a soldier. Being in the reserves, many of our guys work as Army civilians all week and soldiers on weekends - they get paid a LOT more as civilians. There are guys in my unit with jobs that require a high school diploma getting paid more by the Army as civilians than the state pays me to be a lawyer.

And if 1 civilian - 2 soldiers, I
'm wondering why our posts are falling apart and our food sucks. If I could change 1 thing, I'd bring back Army cooks.

Bren
04-10-2012, 04:59
and in A-stan, our platoon was in a FOB with a company of Afghan National Guard soldiers. they ran our perimeter security 24-7.

I think I'd prefer the civilians to that. We had a NATO FOB completely inside and surrounded by the Afghan camp and we still had American soldiers on the gates 24/7. Heck, the ones in Afghan uniforms were the ones we worried about.

expatman
04-10-2012, 05:24
I am ex Army and now a contractor. I have managed two sites as a Site Manager. One was JSS War Eagle on the northern edge of Baghdad at the point where route Pluto crossed the Tigris right next to a water treatment facility and the other was JSS Loyalty near Sadr city. Some of you may know where those where located.

I think it may be cheaper to use civilians because we end up being a force multiplier. We are not paid any benefits and our training is already received via our past history in our various military branches. Add to that the fact that the guard force itself is usually made up of third country nationals. They are paid much less than the western (mostly U.S.) supervisors. As an example; in 2008 my Ugandans were paid about $1,000 per month. This is a substantial increase in their home country average monthly income, which I was told was from $60-$100/mo.

Comare that to the training the cost of training and support that thr average soldier receives. We do not have any medical covered unless it is "life, limb, or eyesight". If we do receive medicl attention for, say, a sprained ankle or tooth ache we pay the U.S. Mil. out of our own pocket.

These are just some examples off the top of my head.

beatcop
04-11-2012, 18:39
As an example; in 2008 my Ugandans were paid about $1,000 per month.

The Ugandans were also rumored to have been involved in a few rapes on base. Not sure if it was urban myth, but I didn't get the warm fuzzy with these guys.

expatman
04-11-2012, 18:46
Never heard of that rumor. What base was this at? We did have two Iraqi soldiers try to rape a female U.S. soldier one night and when we found them they drew down on us with their AKs and were taken care of.

Of course it is possible that a Ugandan could have raped someone. We know that some KBR contractors were accused of rape, and I believe some U.S. soldiers have been accused of rape. So in the end I do not think that rumors of that sort are limited to third country nationals.

Paul53
04-12-2012, 12:22
The military is still on our side isn't it?

sebecman
04-12-2012, 18:43
Hey EXPATMAN, scary is spelled with 1 R - or do you mean SCARRY as in you have a lot of scars?

expatman
04-13-2012, 04:39
Well, I in fact do have a lot of scars....LOL....but thank you for the correction. I never noticed it.

Maybe I should add "and unable to spell" to that sigline?

TangoFoxtrot
04-13-2012, 04:40
The military is still on our side isn't it?

Yes the soldiers are, but not the idiot civilian politicians who govern the military.:whistling: