Advice on 9mm Luger with Unique [Archive] - Glock Talk

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tua05737
04-09-2012, 23:20
I Wanted to get your thoughts on load data for 9mm Luger with alliant unique powder? What's the Max n how much do u run?

country85
04-09-2012, 23:23
I'd love to know this too. I've got about 200 rounds of 9 brass laying around and a pound of unique, these 9's need some go boom dust lol

DoctaGlockta
04-10-2012, 04:20
Folks here will help but they will need some more info. Specifically what type and weight of projectile you will be using.

country85
04-10-2012, 06:18
I've got some 115 gr fmj's laying around I've been wanting to do something with, I was thinking a starting load of 3 to 3.5 grains

talkglock
04-10-2012, 06:45
if your going to be reloading, you really should be getting one of the reload books that are out on the market. No disrespect to anybody here on the board, but how would you know if somebody was giving you bad numbers?

Books only run like $30-50 if i remember correctly

country85
04-10-2012, 06:57
I have many a reloading manual, but not every load is in a book, but I also make many a load that you will never see in a book, I.E find me a manual that has data for unique in a 223 rem, no disrespect intended but hell half the time if you look at 3 different manuals your gonna end up with 3 different sets of data

ron59
04-10-2012, 08:01
When I'm in the OPs position, the first stop I will make is at the powder manufacturer's site. They usually have loads that give me a ballpark number to look at, at least.

Next stop might be Brian Enos' site. Hey, this is a great site and I spend more time here than there, but they have more reloading info over there.

Secondly, I will just do a Google search like this:

9mm 147gr Precision Delta Unique

(replacing the bullet type with whatever I'm using) and see what sort of hits I get.

I will double-check recipes against each other, trying to find multiple (from different sites/sources) that match each other. And of course I have a chrony and will start at the low end and work up. I usually only shoot mid-range loads anyway.

I'm all about books, but reloading recipe books? Not so much. They usually don't have anything that the powder manufacturer's site doesn't have. I'd rather spend that money toward another 1k primers or something.

ColoCG
04-10-2012, 08:22
I usually load 120gr. cast TC and 124gr. TCHP Berry's and FMJ with 5gr. of Unique.I get great accuracy and performance out of this load. If I was going to load 115gr. bullets I would use the same load. I would start the load at about 4.5gr. and work up slowly.
Max charge as always is gun and bullet specific. Alliant lists 5.8grs. as max with the Speer 124gr. Gold Dot loaded to col of 1.12".

tua05737
04-10-2012, 09:51
I've been loading berrys 115gn fmj. I started at 5.4 n found a pretty comfortable load at 5.5 gn of unique. I just wanted to see if nebody else out there used similar numbers.


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ColoCG
04-10-2012, 11:45
I've been loading berrys 115gn fmj. I started at 5.4 n found a pretty comfortable load at 5.5 gn of unique. I just wanted to see if nebody else out there used similar numbers.


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If you didn't know what the max load of Unique was, what made you pick a starting load of 5.4grs.

tua05737
04-10-2012, 11:58
I read a few different numbers online that we're all in the 6gn range. Also read a range of starting loads around 5.4gn. An educated guess?


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ColoCG
04-10-2012, 12:24
I read a few different numbers online that we're all in the 6gn range. Also read a range of starting loads around 5.4gn. An educated guess?


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Just curious. You might want to pick up 2 or3 reloading manuals. You can't always believe what's on the internet.

For instance the Lyman reloading manual shows a starting load for the 115gr. jacketed hp as 4.4gr with a max of 5.8gr of Unique. I would imagine those 6+grs your talking about are loads that have been worked up slowly for an individual gun.

Lyman also list's the load I listed as a max charge with a starting load of 4.5gr. which I recommended.

Well I am glad it's working out for you so far. :shocked:

tua05737
04-10-2012, 12:31
This might be a dumb question but that data is for JHP n I'm using FMJ and i would imagine there is a difference in load data?


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F106 Fan
04-10-2012, 12:37
Just curious. You might want to pick up 2 or3 reloading manuals. You can't always believe what's on the internet.


In my view, you can't EVER believe what's on the Internet. If it isn't published in a book or on a powder manufacturer's web site, it must be back-checked against published data.

There were two specific loads given out on this forum yesterday and one was above the powder manufacturer's maximum and the other was below the minimum. At least, as I read the load data...

We all have our work practices and I tend to be pretty conservative. I want to see the data written in a book or published on a powder manufacturer's web site. Otherwise, the data is just so much Internet noise.

Richard

fredj338
04-10-2012, 13:54
I Wanted to get your thoughts on load data for 9mm Luger with alliant unique powder? What's the Max n how much do u run?

The max is what YOUR gun tells you it is. Look @ 5 diff book max data, all diff. I'll just say you work your laods up & Unique will likely get you comfortably into +P vel w/ all bullet wts. In the small volume/high pressure 9mm case, OAL really matters quite a bit, so JHP & FMJ data can vary quite a bit depending on bullet shape.

ron59
04-10-2012, 14:04
In my view, you can't EVER believe what's on the Internet. If it isn't published in a book or on a powder manufacturer's web site, it must be back-checked against published data.

There were two specific loads given out on this forum yesterday and one was above the powder manufacturer's maximum and the other was below the minimum. At least, as I read the load data...

We all have our work practices and I tend to be pretty conservative. I want to see the data written in a book or published on a powder manufacturer's web site. Otherwise, the data is just so much Internet noise.

Richard

Disagree.

Get a load book from 10 years ago.
Use the load book from the same publisher today. Guess what? Different load values.

Compare loads from books from different publishers. Different load values.

I would rather use REAL data from REAL users. At the same time, you have to be smart about it.

1. Use the appropriate powder for the task. For example, I wouldn't use TG if I was looking for 9mm max loads. Would probably go with WSF for that.

2. Vet your findings. Find more than one site/person with similar numbers.

Lastly... the example you gave that I bolded ?
If anybody went into those threads looking for a load, all they would need to do is read the entire thread. Guess what? Betcha somebody pointed out those numbers were questionable. There ya go... somebody looking for recipes THERE would realize they shouldn't use those numbers.

No, there is plenty of good data and info available on the internet. If you just blindly start pulling data, then you deserve what you get. If you research and then vet your info... you're good to go.

DannyR
04-10-2012, 14:38
Per Sierra 2002, 4.9 to 6.6 gr for 115's. OAL 1.100
I'd suggest 5.6-gr for 1,100fps, a nice soft PF of 126.5

F106 Fan
04-10-2012, 14:59
Disagree.
Get a load book from 10 years ago.
Use the load book from the same publisher today. Guess what? Different load values.


And we know that the powder hasn't changed how?

I agree that the new numbers are lower but I also suspect there may be a reason. I get a better feeling about using today's powder with today's data.

And what's the point? I never load anywhere near max. As long as I am within the stated range and the rounds chrono somewhere reasonable, why would I look back to Speer #9 (Copyright 1979) for load data? Most of the powders that are popular today weren't even available in '79. Nor were some of the bullets we use today. And, yes, I have Speer #9. It's what I started with.


Compare loads from books from different publishers. Different load values.


No two sources agree on anything. As I said yesterday, you go to sea with 1 compass or 3 but never 2. Pick a book that covers the cartridge/components of interest and work with it. Or pick a bunch of books and average them, I suppose. But I still worry about that outlier max load that is a full grain more than anybody else. How come?


I would rather use REAL data from REAL users. At the same time, you have to be smart about it.


But that's the problem! For the most part people come here looking for load data and don't want to buy the books required to back-check the data. So, how can they be 'smart about it'? The only other data is from the powder manufacturer's site and, if they aren't using it, why not?


1. Use the appropriate powder for the task. For example, I wouldn't use TG if I was looking for 9mm max loads. Would probably go with WSF for that.


As an experienced reloader, you are qualified to make that choice. But that experience level isn't universal and that is another problem. How many times do you see uberfast powders show up as recommendations?


2. Vet your findings. Find more than one site/person with similar numbers.


I agree about back-checking with multiple published sources that have been peer reviewed by thousands of shooters over many years. But no one person has the equipment to pressure test any load that isn't within the range of something that is already published. All they can say is that the load hasn't blown up yet. In their gun... Assuming that their weigh scale and calipers were correct. And that they wrote it down correctly, that they said it correctly and that it was heard correctly. There are just too many opportunities for an individual to make mistakes.


Lastly... the example you gave that I bolded ?
If anybody went into those threads looking for a load, all they would need to do is read the entire thread. Guess what? Betcha somebody pointed out those numbers were questionable. There ya go... somebody looking for recipes THERE would realize they shouldn't use those numbers.


I started to write a response just after the loads were posted. Then I thought that perhaps I wasn't reading the data correctly and decided to let one of the other readers ask about it. But loads may not always be back-checked.


No, there is plenty of good data and info available on the internet. If you just blindly start pulling data, then you deserve what you get. If you research and then vet your info... you're good to go.

As long as the data falls within published ranges, it should be no problem. If it's clearly outside those ranges, it need to be approached with a great deal of caution. Or simply ignored...

Richard

ron59
04-10-2012, 15:20
As long as the data falls within published ranges, it should be no problem. If it's clearly outside those ranges, it need to be approached with a great deal of caution. Or simply ignored...

Richard

Remember my post #7.

Where I had already stated that my first "go to" reference was the powder manufacturer's web site. That should give you some good starting info. That is manufacturer's info FOR FREE.

I have no problem buying books, but I just don't see the value for reloading recipe books. Or, if anything, I would get one of those "blue books" that is spiral bound from Midway for $15 that compiles all the other data into one place.

I've reloaded 9mm with:
Solo 1000
WSF
VV N320
TG

all with data I picked up either from here or Enos' site.
And as I said... I check any numbers from a reloading forum against the powder manufacturer's site for validity. AND I start on the low end. I almost always have to bump my 147gr load up just to reach 910 - 920fps which is definitely a mid-range load.

Works for me, can work for others.
The *blanket* "buy a book" position is what I have a problem with.

SARDG
04-10-2012, 15:56
...I've reloaded 9mm with:
Solo 1000
WSF
VV N320
TG
Ron- did you give me your load data for N320 & TG with 9mil/147s and .45ACP/230s. As you may remember, I am stuck on MG CMJ bullets.

Will you e-mail those to me? :)

k

CitizenOfDreams
04-10-2012, 16:05
I've been loading berrys 115gn fmj. I started at 5.4 n found a pretty comfortable load at 5.5 gn of unique. I just wanted to see if nebody else out there used similar numbers.

I loaded 115gr Berry's with as much as 6gr of Unique at 1.150" OAL. That was quite a hot load, but I didn't see any ill effects (such as barrel leading).

Ceapea
04-10-2012, 16:20
115gr bullet w/5.2gr unique @ 1.125".
124gr bullet w/5.2gr Unique @ 1.135".

Both of these are great for me.

robin303
04-10-2012, 17:33
Berry's 115 OAL 1.130 5 grains Unique Glock 19 1085 FPS
Glock 17 1117

5.3 19 1130
17 1163

Berry's 124 OAL 1.130 4.5 grains Unique 19 1018
17 1046

Berry's 147 OAL 1.130 4.2 grains Unique 19 925
17 942

JLM63
04-10-2012, 18:41
I've had fantastic accuracy results with 4.5 grains of Unique and two different cast bullets. Missouri Bullet Company "Smallball" 125 gr. RN and the "9Cone" 125 gr. cone. OAL is 1.120" and a Winchester small pistol primer. I run a Lone Wolf barrel and not had a FTF in over 2000 rounds.

dr_hefley
04-11-2012, 12:38
I'm using 4.3 grains of Unique with 124-grain Montana Gold FMJ's. OAL is now running at 1.135". Shooting them out of a G17.

SC Tiger
04-12-2012, 14:25
This might be a dumb question but that data is for JHP n I'm using FMJ and i would imagine there is a difference in load data?


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Not a dumb question at all. Yes there could be a difference. JHP in the same weight will likely be a longer bullet (to make up for the cavity), which will result in higher pressures with the same load. However, if the profile is different (ie the FMJ has a pointed nose) the FMJ may be longer and seat deeper, resulting in higher pressures with the same load.

cowboy1964
04-12-2012, 19:21
124gr plated bullet w/4.8-5.2gr Unique @ 1.150".

8Ring
04-12-2012, 22:44
Hello:

The Midway Load Map for 9mm was developed using modern pressure testing equipment. It displays pressures and velocities for a wide variety of bullets using different powders at .1gr increments.

For a Remington 124gr FMJ loaded to 1.165" (nearly max OAL), the max load is 5.6gr of Unique which is a mildly compressed load. (32,500 psi) The max load for a Hornady XTP hollow point was 5.4gr with an OAL of 1.135.

For a Speer 115gr TMJ, the max listed load was 5.4gr - 27,700 psi. (again compressed at 1.165" OAL.) For a Hornady 115gr XTP, the max 5.4 at 1.10" OALbut at 35,000 psi. I suspect the Hornady ran higher pressures because it has a longer bearing surface, a harder case (brass v. gilding metal), and was seated deeper into the case due to the FMJ profile.

There you have it. You can create loads that exceed the 35,000 max psi for 9mm but what is the point of doing so? Keep in mind that reducing the OAL in 9mm can increase the psi quickly.

Chris

Danl Boone
04-28-2012, 21:55
I was loading remington 115 gr. JHP's with 5.6 grains of unique for a long time for my beretta 94. After I started shooting glocks I cut it back to 5.2 grains of unique just to be on the safe side. Never had any problems.

ColoCG
04-28-2012, 22:19
This might be a dumb question but that data is for JHP n I'm using FMJ and i would imagine there is a difference in load data?


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Not a dumb question at all. al you have to do is make an educated guess about the difference from all your online data. Simple. :whistling:

Danl Boone
04-29-2012, 06:47
All I've got to go on here is my experience, but we (brother-in-law and I) used to load 115 gr FMJ with the 5.6 grains of Unique, also. I wouldn't hesitate to load 'em with the 5.2 load now. I use 4.5 gr. of Hodgdon TIte Group now, not that the Unique didn't work, the Titegroup just seems like a cleaner burning powder.

garander
04-30-2012, 14:23
I use unique, 5.7 grains with a 115 fmj out of my glock 26. Just this saturday i fired a ten shot group at forty yards that could be covered with a slice of bread. Sitting position.

A couple months ago someone, It may have been wiskey, made the case that you could probably fill a 9mm case flush to the top with unique, seat a 115 fmj on top, and still be ok.
He made sense. Garander