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greentriple
04-10-2012, 09:41
A study published in "Psychological Science" showed that children who scored low on intelligence tests gravitate to socially conservative political views in adulthood. It's believed they do so because conservative ideologies stress "structure and order" that makes it easier to understand a complicated world.

Further research has also linked conservative ideologies to "low-effort" thinking.

The study was lead by, University of Arkansas psychologist Dr. Scott Eidelman.


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Lethaltxn
04-10-2012, 09:43
A study published in "Psychological Science" showed that children who scored low on intelligence tests gravitate to socially conservative political views in adulthood. It's believed they do so because conservative ideologies stress "structure and order" that makes it easier to understand a complicated world.

Further research has also linked conservative ideologies to "low-effort" thinking.

The study was lead by, University of Arkansas psychologist Dr. Scott Eidelman.


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Hasn't that study already been debunked? Unless this is a new one.

Also, where are your links to the study?

JBnTX
04-10-2012, 10:38
A study published in "Psychological Science" showed that children who scored low on intelligence tests gravitate to socially conservative political views in adulthood. It's believed they do so because conservative ideologies stress "structure and order" that makes it easier to understand a complicated world.



So conservatives are stupid?

That's all we need on this forum is another Obama supporter.

:steamed:

hogfish
04-10-2012, 11:58
A study published in "Psychological Science" showed that children who scored low on intelligence tests gravitate to socially conservative political views in adulthood. It's believed they do so because conservative ideologies stress "structure and order" that makes it easier to understand a complicated world.

Further research has also linked conservative ideologies to "low-effort" thinking.

The study was lead by, University of Arkansas psychologist Dr. Scott Eidelman.


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Huh! This study is obviously not objective - more than likely a progressive group behind it. No study is needed to realize that the smartest persons have a libertarian philosophy.

So, there!

:cool:

The Maggy
04-10-2012, 12:30
The article doesn't say what you think it says.

greentriple
04-10-2012, 12:34
So conservatives are stupid?

That's all we need on this forum is another Obama supporter.

:steamed:

It's a gun forum, and your response might be evidence the study is correct. Lazy thinking = post brings study to light thus poster must support Obama. And there is only room on glock talk for conservative ideology.


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snerd
04-10-2012, 12:37
..... there is only room on glock talk for conservative ideology.
I have a dream! :wavey:

Bren
04-10-2012, 12:42
A study published in "Psychological Science" showed

Oddly enough, I have always scored far into the top 1% (and, as a result, have been tested many times, with many tests) and I'm far to the right of anybody stupid enough to put "science" and "psychology" together in the same magazine title.

I'm also smart enough to notice a consistent leaning to the left in a lot of print media and in the field of psychology - put those together and you get an untrustworthy source that will usually find fault with the right.

windplex
04-10-2012, 12:47
well lets see;

liberal political planks fit on bumper stickers.

conservative planks cannot.

which is simpler? which is more complex?

how intelligent are the masses of dems on the dole? is this professor suggesting that we who have jobs and pay for our selves are less intelligent than those who live off the dole. well now that i think about it that might be true -- afterall im working and they are sitting on their behinds and getting paid for it;):rofl:

Bren
04-10-2012, 12:50
Further research has also linked conservative ideologies to "low-effort" thinking.

The study was lead by, University of Arkansas psychologist Dr. Scott Eidelman.


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I'll give you the lower effort thinking - if you've ever seen a liberal try to support their economic or social agendas with a rational argument, you'd know how much effort that takes (and they still fail).

http://psyc.uark.edu/4070.php

But hey, maybe I'm wrong thinking that Eidelman did a BS unbreliable and biased study - what I expect from people who think psychology is science.

Then again, maybe I'm right (http://jlue.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/eidelmans-study-to-determine-why-conservatives-are-stupid-or-you-cant-fix-stupid/):

You'll enjoy the part about how they gathered data by picking drinkers from a single bar and getting people to complete a survey in exchange ofr having somebody tell them their blood alcohol level. Or maybe the one that used a 2/3 femal group of psychology students and the fair and balanced population?

read Eidelman's nonsense here (http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/03/16/0146167212439213.full.pdf).

Mrs. Tink
04-10-2012, 13:34
Anecdotal evidence does show that conservatives tend to eschew some science and academia--but it is simplistic to imply that conservatives do so because they are stupid. There are a number of factors, not least because liberalism has completely saturated academia, and giant blunders like the "climate change crisis" and proof of overblown claims have made anything they say suspect.

It is a vicious cycle through which conservatives avoid academia because of this mistrust, and liberals become more firmly entrenched. Conservatives instead gravitate toward think tanks, which the left lampoons as being "unscientific."

greentriple
04-10-2012, 13:52
Oddly enough, I have always scored far into the top 1% (and, as a result, have been tested many times, with many tests) and I'm far to the right of anybody stupid enough to put "science" and "psychology" together in the same magazine title.

I'm also smart enough to notice a consistent leaning to the left in a lot of print media and in the field of psychology - put those together and you get an untrustworthy source that will usually find fault with the right.

Really? Who in the top 1% would be stupid enough to announce that as a defense to conservative intelligence. Clearly a brilliant person, even a conservative one, would know its the exception that makes the rule. Further it would seem that a person with such a ridiculously high level of intelligence would understand that a stupid progressive could not possibly understand the the analysis.

Truly a battle of wits with a Princess Bride Sicilian - inconceivable.



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greentriple
04-10-2012, 13:58
I'll give you the lower effort thinking - if you've ever seen a liberal try to support their economic or social agendas with a rational argument, you'd know how much effort that takes (and they still fail).

http://psyc.uark.edu/4070.php

But hey, maybe I'm wrong thinking that Eidelman did a BS unbreliable and biased study - what I expect from people who think psychology is science.

Then again, maybe I'm right (http://jlue.wordpress.com/2012/03/31/eidelmans-study-to-determine-why-conservatives-are-stupid-or-you-cant-fix-stupid/):

You'll enjoy the part about how they gathered data by picking drinkers from a single bar and getting people to complete a survey in exchange ofr having somebody tell them their blood alcohol level. Or maybe the one that used a 2/3 femal group of psychology students and the fair and balanced population?

read Eidelman's nonsense here (http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/03/16/0146167212439213.full.pdf).

The study did not find conservatives were stupid but that stupid people gravitated to conservatism. Clearly, or maybe not so clearly, all conservatives are not stupid they just tend to be successfully with stupid ideologies b/c of their audience. In fact I believe this shows the brilliance of some conservative leaders, they know they need not use complex explanations to sell their agenda, just attach simple notions of patriotism v. Anti- american, stir up fear and convince their sheep that there is always a wolf waiting outside the corral.


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Lethaltxn
04-10-2012, 14:00
So then what does the left use?

Bren
04-10-2012, 14:00
Really? Who in the top 1% would be stupid enough to announce that as a defense to conservative intelligence. Clearly a brilliant person, even a conservative one, would know its the exception that makes the rule. Further it would seem that a person with such a ridiculously high level of intelligence would understand that a stupid progressive could not possibly understand the the analysis.

Truly a battle of wits with a Princess Bride Sicilian - inconceivable.



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So...not real close to the top, huh?

brickboy240
04-10-2012, 14:11
If the lefties are so damned smart....why can't they fix the economy?

Why is it that the cities in America that have been run by leftists for decades are the ones with the most crime, poverty and decay? the cities with the most debt and the ones that businesses and people are leaving in droves? Cities like Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago and DC?

If the lefties are so smart, why are the public education systems that they have run for decades producing kids that can barely read and lower and lower test scores? These same systems are also mired in debt and accounting nightmares.

Sorry...I am not buying that nonsense. The left has long tried to link conservative thought to low intelligence but the real world examples don't really pan out...do they?

- brickboy240

Stubudd
04-10-2012, 14:16
Oddly enough, I have always scored far into the top 1% (and, as a result, have been tested many times, with many tests) and I'm far to the right of anybody stupid enough to put "science" and "psychology" together in the same magazine title.

I'm also smart enough to notice a consistent leaning to the left in a lot of print media and in the field of psychology - put those together and you get an untrustworthy source that will usually find fault with the right.

:rofl:

Bren
04-10-2012, 14:16
It's a gun forum, and your response might be evidence the study is correct. Lazy thinking = post brings study to light thus poster must support Obama. And there is only room on glock talk for conservative ideology.


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It's called Glock Talk - what there is no room for is anti-gun trolls from Democratic Underground.

greentriple
04-10-2012, 15:03
It's called Glock Talk - what there is no room for is anti-gun trolls from Democratic Underground.

Fortunately I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and proud American gun owner, who is also a progressive thinker.


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Lethaltxn
04-10-2012, 15:08
Fortunately I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and proud American gun owner, who is also a progressive thinker.


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As opposed to what?

JBnTX
04-10-2012, 15:09
Fortunately I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter and proud American gun owner, who is also a progressive thinker.


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"progressive thinker"?:headscratch:

Lethaltxn
04-10-2012, 15:53
"progressive thinker"?:headscratch:

Kind of an oxymoron, huh?

brickboy240
04-10-2012, 15:54
Then explain to us how the left's dream of big govt. along with their economic forays are GOOD for us..because many of us stupid people just cannot see it.

Please...."progressive thinker"...enlighten us.

If the left is so damned smart....why can't they fix the economy?

- brickboy240

Flying-Dutchman
04-10-2012, 16:09
I have an idea.

Letís join a gun forum and rile up the conservatives.

greentriple
04-10-2012, 16:23
If theRight so darn right how did they get us here in the first place..?


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Lethaltxn
04-10-2012, 16:45
If theRight so darn right how did they get us here in the first place..?


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Conservatives didn't.

snewsoG22
04-10-2012, 20:15
I bet you drink Smart Water and drive a Smart Car in order to boost your ego too. You lefties are so gullible.

certifiedfunds
04-10-2012, 21:43
"progressive thinker"?:headscratch:

Whisper/ JB -- that's YOU, minus the thinker part /Whisper

certifiedfunds
04-10-2012, 21:44
If theRight so darn right how did they get us here in the first place..?


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Thanks for bringing that up! Actually, the 20th Century Progressive movement brought us here.

Well, those folks and the Fabian Socialists.

I'm kinda conservative. IQ 147

certifiedfunds
04-10-2012, 21:47
I think Reagan summed this up very nicely:


Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isnít so.

Shinesintx
04-10-2012, 22:16
I did a study that started out about 20 years ago. My study is was very conclusive in its findings....the evidence proves that libs are dipsheets.

greentriple
04-10-2012, 22:17
I think Reagan summed this up very nicely:

Really bragging about your IQ, if it were that high you'd be smart enough not to brag. Those with brains never need to try and impress with boasting!

No smart H2O or Smart car, but I do have a smart phone.

I'm more of a fiscal moderate and social liberal. I believe both sides of he isle are to blame that's why I'm an independent. However by nature I'm a skeptic and know nobody has it right.

And yes, I do have a sadistic side that enjoys reading conservatives posts challenging their assumptions and reading them go on attack mode. Tends to show true colors, fallacy in their logic and how easily they are manipulated by he power elite on he right and for that matter the left.


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greentriple
04-10-2012, 22:19
I did a study that started out about 20 years ago. My study is was very conclusive in its findings....the evidence proves that libs are dipsheets.

Like the kind you put in the dryer to make your undies all soft and nice smellin? Cool.


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aircarver
04-11-2012, 06:10
I did a study that started out about 20 years ago. My study is was very conclusive in its findings....the evidence proves that libs are dipsheets.

It took 20 years to find that out ? .... :shocked:

.

JFrame
04-11-2012, 06:12
Conservatives didn't.


...A point so clearly evident, even a "progressive" caveman should have seen that... :whistling:


.

Lethaltxn
04-11-2012, 07:07
Really bragging about your IQ, if it were that high you'd be smart enough not to brag. Those with brains never need to try and impress with boasting!

No smart H2O or Smart car, but I do have a smart phone.

I'm more of a fiscal moderate and social liberal. I believe both sides of he isle are to blame that's why I'm an independent. However by nature I'm a skeptic and know nobody has it right.

And yes, I do have a sadistic side that enjoys reading conservatives posts challenging their assumptions and reading them go on attack mode. Tends to show true colors, fallacy in their logic and how easily they are manipulated by he power elite on he right and for that matter the left.


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For such an intelligent "progressive thinker" you sure do have horrendous grammar.

ancient_serpent
04-11-2012, 07:18
Really bragging about your IQ, if it were that high you'd be smart enough not to brag. Those with brains never need to try and impress with boasting!

And yes, I do have a sadistic side that enjoys reading conservatives posts challenging their assumptions and reading them go on attack mode. Tends to show true colors, fallacy in their logic and how easily they are manipulated by he power elite on he right and for that matter the left.


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"To beg the question is to commit a mistake in reasoning by assuming what one seeks to prove. Often this kind of reasoning is criticized as "circular reasoning," in that the premise that supports the conclusion is in turn supported by the conclusion, and thus goes in a circle."
Mosser, K. (2011). Logic an Introduction. San Diego, CA: Bridgepoint Education, Inc.
Trolls. Do not feed them.

brickboy240
04-11-2012, 11:58
The right did NOT get us where we are.

Leftist politicians combined with those that RAN as conservatives but were really not, got us where we are right now.

True fiscal conservatives did NOT put us where we are today.

- brickboy240

RC-RAMIE
04-11-2012, 12:22
The right did NOT get us where we are.

Leftist politicians combined with those that RAN as conservatives but were really not, got us where we are right now.

True fiscal conservatives did NOT put us where we are today.

- brickboy240

Well to be fair that is what represents our right now days in the GOP, big government Conservatives and a lot own glocks.

brickboy240
04-11-2012, 12:28
Big govt types run the RNC right now. That explains why we get candidates like McCain and Romney.

The left and many in big media (MSNBC types) would have you believe that the Tea Party runs the GOP. Not even close! If that is true...how do you explain Dole, McCain and Romney? If the Tea Party truly "ran" the GOP...those suckers would never see the light of day.

- brickboy240

windplex
04-11-2012, 12:32
Big govt types run the RNC right now. That explains why we get candidates like McCain and Romney.

The left and many in big media (MSNBC types) would have you believe that the Tea Party runs the GOP. Not even close! If that is true...how do you explain Dole, McCain and Romney? If the Tea Party truly "ran" the GOP...those suckers would never see the light of day.

- brickboy240

clearly the tea party did not get us dole or mccain (didnt exist then) nor romney.

however we did have about a dozen candidates and all had their opportunity to say theier piece during unending debates.

we republicans voted in primaries, not the big media and not the RNC or big govt types. each person voted independently.

of course main stream media has a bias and reported accordingly and will continue to do so for the election.

windplex
04-11-2012, 12:34
...

I'm kinda conservative. IQ 147

That's impressive power under your hood!

Cleaerly you are smart enough to come around to socialism:rofl:

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 12:56
That's impressive power under your hood!

Cleaerly you are smart enough to come around to socialism:rofl:

You're surprised? :rofl:

I've been tested twice 147 was the high water mark. There are much brighter folks in these parts though, without a doubt. Its all wasted anyway.:supergrin:

I had a physics professor in college who used to work problems out on the board and then step back and talk about how elegant it was. He said if it wasn't simple and elegant it was probably wrong.

I think politics is like that. The lefty troll types think everything has to be complex. Funny but nature doesn't even work like that.

I'm Such a Bird
04-11-2012, 13:01
...And yes, I do have a sadistic side that enjoys reading conservatives posts challenging their assumptions and reading them go on attack mode. Tends to show true colors, fallacy in their logic and how easily they are manipulated by he power elite on he right and for that matter the left.

It is really more like a masochistic side though, isn't it?

Believe me--if you are being honest, I may have been more similar to you just over three years ago than I was to those who you currently see as them. Keep paying attention to multiple sources of information on the left, right, and in between; and if you are truly smart, you'll begin to see through the fog over time and find that your views will shift toward the right.

Sometimes it just takes time to see the truth if you are really open to pursuing it.

:wavey:

windplex
04-11-2012, 13:22
You're surprised? :rofl:

I've been tested twice 147 was the high water mark. There are much brighter folks in these parts though, without a doubt. Its all wasted anyway.:supergrin:

I had a physics professor in college who used to work problems out on the board and then step back and talk about how elegant it was. He said if it wasn't simple and elegant it was probably wrong.

I think politics is like that. The lefty troll types think everything has to be complex. Funny but nature doesn't even work like that.

have to agree with your points. althought i'd reccomend you and your wife produce as many kids as possible!:supergrin: do it four our nation!

greentriple
04-11-2012, 13:39
It is really more like a masochistic side though, isn't it?

Believe me--if you are being honest, I may have been more similar to you just over three years ago than I was to those who you currently see as them. Keep paying attention to multiple sources of information on the left, right, and in between; and if you are truly smart, you'll begin to see through the fog over time and find that your views will shift toward the right.

Sometimes it just takes time to see the truth if you are really open to pursuing it.

:wavey:

Im too old to too much shifting and too critical to accept any ideology as correct and too independent to join anything. Although age and kids have made me more fiscally conservative, yet even more socially progressive.


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greentriple
04-11-2012, 13:43
As for crappy grammar, guilty as charged, I'd blame the iPad, but my dyslexia kills word processors too.


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I'm Such a Bird
04-11-2012, 14:32
Im too old to too much shifting and too critical to accept any ideology as correct and too independent to join anything. Although age and kids have made me more fiscally conservative, yet even more socially progressive.


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Too old to change is not a very good excuse to remain stagnant in one's thinking for an intelligent person, but being critical is a good attribute to have, I believe. I too remain socially progressive in some areas in my thinking, but conservatism whips liberalism when it comes to truth in many areas.

As a gun owner, you should be especially conscious and critical if you have been following some recent stories closely, such as operation "Fast and Furious" (almost anything to do with Attorney General Eric Holder, really), and the Martin/Zimmerman issue, and what that has become. It is pretty clear that "progressive thinking" would lead towards disarming us.

The coming presidential election may lead to the choosing of at least one or two new Supreme Court justices in the next term. Although the Republican Party is stupid for pushing a moderate such as Romney onto us, if it comes down to Obama and him, which one do you think will be the better one for preserving our Constitutional rights and freedoms? It is a close call, but I still believe the answer is clear.

Who are you going to vote for? I know that I won't be voting for Obama this time, and am proud to say it, even though I won't be proud when I vote for Romney either.

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 14:53
Im too old to too much shifting and too critical to accept any ideology as correct and too independent to join anything. Although age and kids have made me more fiscally conservative, yet even more socially progressive.


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What is "socially progressive" ??

How do you have fiscal conservatism and be "socially progressive"??

Lethaltxn
04-11-2012, 14:57
What is "socially progressive" ??

How do you have fiscal conservatism and be "socially progressive"??

It means he doesn't take issue with the gay agenda.

brickboy240
04-11-2012, 15:03
Easy...its called Libertarianism.

I am a fiscal conservative but don't care if gays marry or how many abortions you have.

I know many people that are just like this. We want the economy fixed FIRST ....then you can wage war against the homos....ok? Homos are only 5% of the population. The bad economy affects 100% of the population.

Priorities, people.

- brickboy240

greentriple
04-11-2012, 15:17
Not only do I not take issue with homosexuals and their political agenda, but I support them and believe they are entitled to every right us breeders are. And allowing gay marriage is fiscally conservative as their weddings would be economically beneficial.

I am pro-life, but believe the government has no right to dictate what women do with their body. Please I don't want to get into a "when does life begin". And the right of a fetus, we will not agree.

Teens will have sex, let's give them birth control And teach them how to be safe. We don't need anymore pregnant kids.

The old and children should be cared for and not go hungry or be without attention.

All public schools should have the same excellent level of education, regardless of community or economic make up of the student body.

There are a few examples.




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certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 16:34
Not only do I not take issue with homosexuals and their political agenda, but I support them and believe they are entitled to every right us breeders are. And allowing gay marriage is fiscally conservative as their weddings would be economically beneficial.



I agree. I think gays should have to suffer just like the rest of us.

I am pro-life, but believe the government has no right to dictate what women do with their body. Please I don't want to get into a "when does life begin". And the right of a fetus, we will not agree.



Fair enough. We disagree in that while I support a woman controlling her own body, she had the right to do that before getting pregnant. Once pregnant, I don't believe she has a right to end that life anymore than the law believes another person has a right to end that life against her will lest they be charged with homicide, not destruction of non-viable tissue mass.

Teens will have sex, let's give them birth control And teach them how to be safe. We don't need anymore pregnant kids.



Parent's decision. Not the state's.

The old and children should be cared for and not go hungry or be without attention.



I like your use of the word "should" and I like the fact that you group old people and children in together, when in fact they're very different.

I agree they "should". I disagree that someone should be forced to do it. Charity: Family, church, community caring for the needy in free will.

I take it by "should" you mean that people "should" be forced to take care of them. By that, I assume you support Social Security and Medicare. You're very wrong there.

Now, *THIS* you cannot do and remain a fiscal conservative. SS, Medicare and DOD are bankrupting us.

All public schools should have the same excellent level of education, regardless of community or economic make up of the student body.


Again, you use the word "should". I agree they "should" too.

What I think you actually mean is that the people of Texas should pool their money with the people of Kentucky to make all schools equal, even if that means that there is less money going to the schools in Texas.

That is where the evil starts.

First, the fedgov has no Constitutional authority to meddle in education. Period.

Second, it is evil to confiscate the money of texans to pay for the education of Kentuckyians.

Nope, not libertarian. Straight up Progressive-Socialist based on this.

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 16:36
Easy...its called Libertarianism.

I am a fiscal conservative but don't care if gays marry or how many abortions you have.

I know many people that are just like this. We want the economy fixed FIRST ....then you can wage war against the homos....ok? Homos are only 5% of the population. The bad economy affects 100% of the population.

Priorities, people.

- brickboy240

That's straight up Conservatism. The fedgov has no role in marriage, gay or straight.

The problem is that the political spectrum has been so warped that Libertarians are the true conservatives today or, the classic Jeffersonian liberals.

windplex
04-11-2012, 16:45
schools are an interesting subject.

every city i have lived in or near spent MUCH more per pupil than the best public schools in that state.

however the outcomes/results were diametrically apposed. the best of the public schools set 98% to college and graduated as close to 100% as you can get -rarely did someone not graduate.

the city schools with all that extra money -- and it is much more money per kid -- do not produce successful results.

there are reasons for this that have nothing to do with money. nothing to do with teacher:student ratios. nothing to do with fancy schools.

so how does a society make things equal when they simply cannot be equal outcomes? best not to bank on outcomes. infact limit city school districts to budgets that mirror other public schools rather than lavishing much more money on them -- now that is not "fair".

greentriple
04-11-2012, 16:55
I agree. I think gays should have to suffer just like the rest of us.



Fair enough. We disagree in that while I support a woman controlling her own body, she had the right to do that before getting pregnant. Once pregnant, I don't believe she has a right to end that life anymore than the law believes another person has a right to end that life against her will lest they be charged with homicide, not destruction of non-viable tissue mass.



Parent's decision. Not the state's.



I like your use of the word "should" and I like the fact that you group old people and children in together, when in fact they're very different.

I agree they "should". I disagree that someone should be forced to do it. Charity: Family, church, community caring for the needy in free will.

I take it by "should" you mean that people "should" be forced to take care of them. By that, I assume you support Social Security and Medicare. You're very wrong there.

Now, *THIS* you cannot do and remain a fiscal conservative. SS, Medicare and DOD are bankrupting us.



Again, you use the word "should". I agree they "should" too.

What I think you actually mean is that the people of Texas should pool their money with the people of Kentucky to make all schools equal, even if that means that there is less money going to the schools in Texas.

That is where the evil starts.

First, the fedgov has no Constitutional authority to meddle in education. Period.

Second, it is evil to confiscate the money of texans to pay for the education of Kentuckyians.

Nope, not libertarian. Straight up Progressive-Socialist based on this.

I presumed we would not agree. I believe in the Willow tree version of federal government. I don't believe Americans should prosper or suffer based solely on what state they happen to live in, we are Americans, this is not the EU where identity is still State dependent. But, I'd be willing to start within states themselves, heck I'd be happy if it was equal in cities.

It can be the parents decision if their kids are given contraception. Many, many parents are not smart enough to know what's in their children's best interest. And children do many things without parental consent. We don't keep schools from teaching our kids about the dangers of drugs and alcohol.

It seems to me you believe individuals will rise to assist each other. I don't. Conditions would be chaos and much much worse if govt relied on citizens to provide basic services and "charity".

And your reference to differing ideologies as "evil" is why conversations break down.


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Mrs. Tink
04-11-2012, 17:08
All public schools should have the same excellent level of education, regardless of community or economic make up of the student body.


So you don't believe in local control for public education?

RC-RAMIE
04-11-2012, 18:27
It seems to me you believe individuals will rise to assist each other. I don't. Conditions would be chaos and much much worse if govt relied on citizens to provide basic services and "charity".


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People have done It far longer and more efficiently than government has in the history of this country.

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

Lethaltxn
04-11-2012, 19:12
People have done It far longer and more efficiently than government has in the history of this country.

No, only the government is benevolent.

JFrame
04-11-2012, 19:36
I recall that there were fleets of trucks, vans, and buses of people with food and supplies wanting to assist the Katrina victims -- and were kept from approaching by the FedGov.


.

Stubudd
04-11-2012, 20:17
The old and children should be cared for and not go hungry or be without attention.

All public schools should have the same excellent level of education, regardless of community or economic make up of the student body.

There are a few examples.




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You're dreaming the impossible progressive dream brother. I want old people and kids to not be hungry too. Unfortunately, you can't save everybody, you just can't. Gov't only makes it worse wherever they try, eventually. Usually much much worse. Just look around. Health care destroyed. Education wrecked. Wars on drugs that end up locking up more people than anywhere in the world by far, cost trillions, and don't even reduce drug use. The gov't bankrupting itself trying to take care of the people. The impossible dream.

Stubudd
04-11-2012, 20:23
you dreamed a dream but life killed it

Ruthie Henshall - I Dreamed A Dream (Les Miserables 10th Anniversary Concert - Royal Albert Hall) - YouTube

janice6
04-11-2012, 20:26
This precept is just very funny, No more then that.

Stubudd
04-11-2012, 20:26
too bad so many people are still dreaming the dream- look who the GoP nominates for POTUS. And people actually think it's gonna make some kind of difference in the end. The dream is a incomprehensibly huge multi-trillion dollar nightmare.

callihan_44
04-11-2012, 20:33
A study published in "Psychological Science" showed that children who scored low on intelligence tests gravitate to socially conservative political views in adulthood. It's believed they do so because conservative ideologies stress "structure and order" that makes it easier to understand a complicated world.

Further research has also linked conservative ideologies to "low-effort" thinking.

The study was lead by, University of Arkansas psychologist Dr. Scott Eidelman.


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apparently you've never spent any time over at the huffpost reading some of the idiotic comments posted on any given story....

greentriple
04-11-2012, 21:01
So you don't believe in local control for public education?

Nope.


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greentriple
04-11-2012, 21:02
People have done It far longer and more efficiently than government has in the history of this country.

"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

Not at the national level needed for a country our size.. And size is one of our problems.


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certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 21:05
I presumed we would not agree. I believe in the Willow tree version of federal government.

I have no idea what the Willow tree version of federal government is but I'd be willing to bet it involves people like you putting your booger-laced fingers on my wallet.

I don't believe Americans should prosper or suffer based solely on what state they happen to live in, we are Americans, this is not the EU where identity is still State dependent. But, I'd be willing to start within states themselves, heck I'd be happy if it was equal in cities.



:dunno:I'm a Louisianian first, American second. You folks and your progressive agenda have all but erased state identities and the way the country was supposed to be comprised.

Family>Church>Community>Town>State>Federal

It can be the parents decision if their kids are given contraception. Many, many parents are not smart enough to know what's in their children's best interest.

How sweet of you to allow the parents to give contraception if they choose. How disgustingly arrogant for you to determine that some are not smart enough to decide what is best for their children. Tell me, my wife and I have 15 years of higher education between us, if we decide not to give our children contraception, is it because we aren't smart enough. Then some arrogant prick from the left thinks its his privilege or duty to do it in our stead? Keep your hands off of my family.



It seems to me you believe individuals will rise to assist each other. I don't.

I believe in many cases they will. In other cases they won't. That is their choice, not mine. How arrogant does one have to be to decide that they can force one man to help another against his will?

Conditions would be chaos and much much worse if govt relied on citizens to provide basic services and "charity".



Funny but we existed for a couple hundred years just fine before you Progressives stepped in and mucked things all up. There was a time that nuns built hospitals to serve the poor. They built schools to educate freed slaves. Churches and communities took care of their needy.

Then the Progressive bastards stepped in and took over and began sucking half of what people earn out of their pockets in taxes. Any wonder why charity can't do it under your system?

And your reference to differing ideologies as "evil" is why conversations break down.


I have no desire to have a conversation. I want people with ideas like yours defeated. Crushed. I want my country back.

And yes, evil is the appropriate word. When you steal from people and give their money to others, you are evil. When you vote for a politician to do it in your stead, you are equally evil. Government cannot do good because to do so it must start with an evil act: Theft

Are you a thief?

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 21:08
Not at the national level needed for a country our size.. And size is one of our problems.


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Bull. Its only a problem when you try to "nationalize" everything.

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 21:09
Nope.


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That's interesting. I don't know where you live but keep your hands out of my kids' schools. You aren't welcome.

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 21:11
I presumed we would not agree. I believe in the Willow tree version of federal government. I don't believe Americans should prosper or suffer based solely on what state they happen to live in, we are Americans, this is not the EU where identity is still State dependent. But, I'd be willing to start within states themselves, heck I'd be happy if it was equal in cities.

It can be the parents decision if their kids are given contraception. Many, many parents are not smart enough to know what's in their children's best interest. And children do many things without parental consent. We don't keep schools from teaching our kids about the dangers of drugs and alcohol.

It seems to me you believe individuals will rise to assist each other. I don't. Conditions would be chaos and much much worse if govt relied on citizens to provide basic services and "charity".

And your reference to differing ideologies as "evil" is why conversations break down.


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By the way, you still haven't explained how you can possibly be a "fiscal conservative" with all of this national social spending.

Social spending now accounts for virtually every dollar of federal tax revenue.

Tell me again how the two can possibly co-mingle?

greentriple
04-11-2012, 21:38
I have no idea what the Willow tree version of federal government is but I'd be willing to bet it involves people like you putting your booger-laced fingers on my wallet.



:dunno:I'm a Louisianian first, American second. You folks and your progressive agenda have all but erased state identities and the way the country was supposed to be comprised.

Family>Church>Community>Town>State>Federal



How sweet of you to allow the parents to give contraception if they choose. How disgustingly arrogant for you to determine that some are not smart enough to decide what is best for their children. Tell me, my wife and I have 15 years of higher education between us, if we decide not to give our children contraception, is it because we aren't smart enough. Then some arrogant prick from the left thinks its his privilege or duty to do it in our stead? Keep your hands off of my family.



I believe in many cases they will. In other cases they won't. That is their choice, not mine. How arrogant does one have to be to decide that they can force one man to help another against his will?



Funny but we existed for a couple hundred years just fine before you Progressives stepped in and mucked things all up. There was a time that nuns built hospitals to serve the poor. They built schools to educate freed slaves. Churches and communities took care of their needy.

Then the Progressive bastards stepped in and took over and began sucking half of what people earn out of their pockets in taxes. Any wonder why charity can't do it under your system?



I have no desire to have a conversation. I want people with ideas like yours defeated. Crushed. I want my country back.

And yes, evil is the appropriate word. When you steal from people and give their money to others, you are evil. When you vote for a politician to do it in your stead, you are equally evil. Government cannot do good because to do so it must start with an evil act: Theft

Are you a thief?

Wow, keep the insults and personal attacks coming. I'm relieved to know you and your kind will never ever hold enough political power to ruin this great nation. I suspect, inreference to the past you would have upheld slavery and denied woman suffrage. Keep drinking the tea. The one thing I know we agree on is that I pray our right to have a gun is never taken so should you ever try and take our nation by force I can defend it against you. Fortunately this is not a novel and you and yours will forever be relegated to conservative web sites while we progressives continue to run things. Look at the sore board, we win. And if you don't like it, move to Canada.


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greentriple
04-11-2012, 21:40
By the way, you still haven't explained how you can possibly be a "fiscal conservative" with all of this national social spending.

Social spending now accounts for virtually every dollar of federal tax revenue.

Tell me again how the two can possibly co-mingle?

Like I said, we won. Cry me a river. Stop being sore losers and praying for more military spending.


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Stubudd
04-11-2012, 21:55
Wow, keep the insults and personal attacks coming. I'm relieved to know you and your kind will never ever hold enough political power to ruin this great nation. I suspect I reference to the past you would have upheld history and denied woman suffrage. Keep driving the tea. The one thing I know we agree on is that I pray our right to have a gun is never taken so should you ever try and take our nation by force I can defend it against you. Fortunately this is not a novel and you and yours will forever be relegated to conservative sets while we progressives continue to run things. Look at the sore board, we win. And if you don't like it, move to Canada.


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You progressives run things, that's for sure. Both parties. Great job. You already took the nation. Look what's become of it. Look where it's headed. Look at the scoreboard indeed. You lost, and we're all gonna go down with you.

Like I said, we won. Cry me a river. Stop being sore losers and praying for more military spending.


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If you think CF wants more military spending, you've not read much that he's said- i haven't read the last few posts before this one, but i'd bet 1000-1 they didn't mention his wanting more spending on anything, and particularly not military spending.

Stubudd
04-11-2012, 21:57
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

there's one of the scoreboards. Super job by the dream team.

greentriple
04-11-2012, 22:04
What I love is liberals blame conservatives and when on their web sites they are "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. You all are exactly the same, it's always "not me". It's everyone else's fault. How about some of that personal accountability conservatives are so fond of.

Conservative: "Boo hoo, darn progressives have ruined this great nation! They are evil, un-Amrican, set on destroying this nation with their failed ideology. They want to take away our liberties, our freedoms, they are destroying our Constitution and all that for which it stands!"

Progressive: "Boo hoo, darn conservatives have ruined this great nation!" They are evil, un-Amrican, set on destroying this nation for with their ideology. They want to take away our liberties, our freedoms, they are destroying our Constitution and all that for which it stands!"




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greentriple
04-11-2012, 22:06
That fissure, and it's rapid growth is what will destroy us. IDEOLOGY will be our undoing.


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certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 22:18
What I love is liberals blame conservatives and when on their web sites they are "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. You all are exactly the same, it's always "not me". It's everyone else's fault. How about some of that personal accountability conservatives are so fond of.

Conservative: "Boo hoo, darn progressives have ruined this great nation! They are evil, un-Amrican, set on destroying this nation with their failed ideology. They want to take away our liberties, our freedoms, they are destroying our Constitution and all that for which it stands!"

Progressive: "Boo hoo, darn conservatives have ruined this great nation!" They are evil, un-Amrican, set on destroying this nation for with their ideology. They want to take away our liberties, our freedoms, they are destroying our Constitution and all that for which it stands!"




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Here is the difference:

Your ideology imposes your views on me. Demands things of me. Compels me to perform.

My ideology, simply wants to leave you alone to live your life as you see fit and asks that you do the same.

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 22:20
Like I said, we won. Cry me a river. Stop being sore losers and praying for more military spending.


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Still won't answer, will ya?

How can you be a fiscal conservative and still support all your social spending?

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 22:23
Wow, keep the insults and personal attacks coming. I'm relieved to know you and your kind will never ever hold enough political power to ruin this great nation. I suspect, inreference to the past you would have upheld slavery and denied woman suffrage. Keep drinking the tea. The one thing I know we agree on is that I pray our right to have a gun is never taken so should you ever try and take our nation by force I can defend it against you. Fortunately this is not a novel and you and yours will forever be relegated to conservative web sites while we progressives continue to run things. Look at the sore board, we win. And if you don't like it, move to Canada.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Lots of points you could respond to. Instead I guess you just stomp your feet.

Take the nation by force? Take what? Why? People like me just want to be left alone like the founders said we were supposed to be.

Why is that too much to ask of you people?

certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 22:27
The one thing I know we agree on is that I pray our right to have a gun is never taken so should you ever try and take our nation by force I can defend it against you.

So, why is gun control a cornerstone of the Progressive agenda?

Oooohhhh. I get it! Gun control for EVERYONE ELSE!

greentriple
04-11-2012, 22:29
Lots of points you could respond to. Instead I guess you just stomp your feet.

Take the nation by force? Take what? Why? People like me just want to be left alone like the founders said we were supposed to be.

Why is that too much to ask of you people?

So, if you want to be left alone move away, stop talking and complaining. If you are unseen and unheard nobody will bother you.


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greentriple
04-11-2012, 22:44
So, why is gun control a cornerstone of the Progressive agenda?

Oooohhhh. I get it! Gun control for EVERYONE ELSE!

Not my agenda, although I confess I like some regulation.

I want reductions an govt. spending. I want federal, state, and local beurocracies eviscerated. Don't bug my phone, search my car, regulate what I say, deny me zealous counsel, take my gun, tell me hoe or what to worship (in fact keep God out of my politics and do not pick which religion is correct for me), let me wed whom I like and stay the hell out of my wife's uterus!

Spend on infrastructure, criminal justice (not massive levels of drug offender incarceration and financially failing death penalties), education, healthcare for children and elderly and working taxpayers (no work, no chicken), care for the mentally ill. If you are an able bodied adult you should work, if you can't find a job unemployment will be less than minimum wage ( which must be higher to be a livable wage).

This is not exhaustive, but simply representative.


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certifiedfunds
04-11-2012, 22:47
So, if you want to be left alone move away, stop talking and complaining. If you are unseen and unheard nobody will bother you.


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Horse****. Every moment of my life is regulated and taxed, thanks to progressives.

greentriple
04-11-2012, 22:50
Horse****. Every moment of my life is regulated and taxed, thanks to progressives.

Bull pucky, don't blame progressives for taxation. Taxation is as old as civilization! And I hate it too.


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Mrs. Tink
04-12-2012, 00:09
I know that I won't be voting for Obama this time, and am proud to say it, even though I won't be proud when I vote for Romney either.

Bird, I haven't told you this lately but you remain one of the members of GT that is the most impressive to me. :beer:

Nope.


Why do you think a command-and-control, top-down, one-size-fits-all approach is better? Do you really think that education in Detroit should look the same as education in Dallas? You have totally different demographics, challenges, local needs to be addressed. How are the feds possibly equipped for this?

I am very glad that my state is a very solid local control state. It has served us well.

Stubudd
04-12-2012, 00:21
What I love is liberals blame conservatives and when on their web sites they are "right" and any differing opinion is wrong. You all are exactly the same, it's always "not me". It's everyone else's fault. How about some of that personal accountability conservatives are so fond of.

Conservative: "Boo hoo, darn progressives have ruined this great nation! They are evil, un-Amrican, set on destroying this nation with their failed ideology. They want to take away our liberties, our freedoms, they are destroying our Constitution and all that for which it stands!"

Progressive: "Boo hoo, darn conservatives have ruined this great nation!" They are evil, un-Amrican, set on destroying this nation for with their ideology. They want to take away our liberties, our freedoms, they are destroying our Constitution and all that for which it stands!"

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That's not really the way it is. Conservativism hasn't ruined anything. Both parties are all about huge spending, huge programs, huge everything. That's where the ruin we're facing springs from. I actually blame the "conservatives" here- the ones who think of themselves as conservative- even more than liberals. Liberals at least know what they're about, and try to get it, misguided as are.

The fake conservatives that have let the "conservative" party become the other half of the progressive party are the most blameworthy as far as i'm concerned. Here they are every day talking themselves into voting for a liberal from massachussetts- a liberal from Mass., that has signed an AWB and implemented Romneycare- of all people. Pathetic. They had a chance to act like real conservatives, and they passed on it- they'll accept even more lying and stealing, as long as you promise to talk a good game while you do it.

Nevermind making a stand, demanding an end to this obviously failing madness of out of control central government- they've been fooled into laying down yet again for "the other guy is worse". It's hilariously hypocritical for them to blame progressives while they sit back and accept the nomination of one. The progressive dreamers are what they are- they just happen to be wrong. The lay downs are something worse- spineless hypocrites duped into playing partisan games while Rome burns.

USMCSergeant
04-12-2012, 02:50
I've met very intelligent republicans, and very slow liberals.. and vice versa. Each group has their own studs and they also have ones they're not so proud of.

I understand that children and the elderly should not go hungry. I just do not see how we can afford to keep feeding them. Realistically we cannot sustain this way. Around 48% of Americans receive some type of government assistance, 42 million on welfare alone. With a debt of 15+ trillion, and debt to GDP ratio climbing around 100%... it's a scary outlook. We're economically failing.

All I hear from liberals is tax the wealthy more. Why should the wealthy be punished for being successful? Especially when the bottom 50% of Americans pay 0 net income taxes. The wealthy already pay that burden. America - the land of opportunity. Well, until we find out you've taken those opportunities and became successful.. then we'll tax you back to where you started from.

Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc'-ra-cy) -- a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers

JFrame
04-12-2012, 05:10
Bird, I haven't told you this lately but you remain one of the members of GT that is the most impressive to me. :beer:


+1 :cheers:


.

certifiedfunds
04-12-2012, 05:47
Bull pucky, don't blame progressives for taxation. Taxation is as old as civilization! And I hate it too.


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But progressives made it "progressive". Progressives changed it from apportioned among the states to taxing individual incomes.

Progressives regulate my showerhead.
Progressives regulate my toilet.
Progressives regulate my light bulbs.
Progressives want to tell me what kind of car I can drive.
Progressives take my money at the barrel of a gun and give it to another.
Progressives invented the welfare state.
Progressives destroyed our Constitutional Republic with the ratification of the 17th Amendment.
Progressives are trying to destroy our healthcare system.
Progressives have enslaved my children and grandchildren to a lifetime of debt service.


You hate taxation, but you want to provide for the welfare state AND you're a "fiscal conservative". :rofl:

certifiedfunds
04-12-2012, 05:51
Not my agenda, although I confess I like some regulation.

I want reductions an govt. spending. I want federal, state, and local beurocracies eviscerated. Don't bug my phone, search my car, regulate what I say, deny me zealous counsel, take my gun, tell me hoe or what to worship (in fact keep God out of my politics and do not pick which religion is correct for me), let me wed whom I like and stay the hell out of my wife's uterus!

Spend on infrastructure, criminal justice (not massive levels of drug offender incarceration and financially failing death penalties), education, healthcare for children and elderly and working taxpayers (no work, no chicken), care for the mentally ill. If you are an able bodied adult you should work, if you can't find a job unemployment will be less than minimum wage ( which must be higher to be a livable wage).

This is not exhaustive, but simply representative.


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:faint:

JFrame
04-12-2012, 05:54
But progressives made it "progressive". Progressives changed it from apportioned among the states to taxing individual incomes.

Progressives regulate my showerhead.
Progressives regulate my toilet.
Progressives regulate my light bulbs.
Progressives want to tell me what kind of car I can drive.
Progressives take my money at the barrel of a gun and give it to another.
Progressives invented the welfare state.
Progressives destroyed our Constitutional Republic with the ratification of the 17th Amendment.
Progressives are trying to destroy our healthcare system.
Progressives have enslaved my children and grandchildren to a lifetime of debt service.


You hate taxation, but you want to provide for the welfare state AND you're a "fiscal conservative". :rofl:


A progressive imprisoned 110,000 Americans without due process, strictly based on their ancestry.

The Constitution, to progressives, is an inconvenience, to be circumvented and ignored when it suits their leftist agenda.



.

I'm Such a Bird
04-12-2012, 08:54
Bird, I haven't told you this lately but you remain one of the members of GT that is the most impressive to me. :beer:

+1 :cheers:


.


Thank you both very much. Actually, I haven't posted here in a long time, although I am still a regular reader of the threads. I was very disappointed with GTPI when some of the LEOs seemed to take over; and soon after, some of the best people here, including charter lifetime members were banned in favor of keeping some of the real instigators of problems on this site.

I especially miss DaGroaner, who was an integral part of my change in thinking, along with some of you who are still here, including you two.

:beer:

I felt the need to chime in on this particular thread, because this person reminds me a little of myself over three years ago. He is being smug, and thinks that he knows more than he does. I encourage him to continue the dialogue he is having with true conservatives and be critical of all he sees and hears, paying attention to what is happening out there in the media compared to what he sees here.

If he is an honest seeker of truth, he will eventually find the way. If not--then I definitely agree with the statement that people like him must be defeated. This will hopefully happen in the ballot box in November and then beyond, as more truths are revealed to a wider section of our population regarding the destructive force of liberalism coupled with the mainstream media's (fading) power to propagate it.

I'm glad that I can see things more clearly now than I did back when I publically supported Obama here in GTPI in 2008. I have issues with the current Republican party too, but it is only because they are generally not conservative enough, and are focusing on the wrong issues to energize their voting base, with a terrible candidate leading to go against Obama. I am convinced that I will never vote Democrat again though, and for the rest of my life will choose the best option that will better lead toward preserving our Constitution, and our country.

Take heed, and pay close attention, greentriple!

:cool:

I'm Such a Bird
04-12-2012, 09:28
This quote especially reveals how much you don't understand:

Wow, keep the insults and personal attacks coming. I'm relieved to know you and your kind will never ever hold enough political power to ruin this great nation. I suspect, inreference to the past you would have upheld slavery and denied woman suffrage. Keep drinking the tea. The one thing I know we agree on is that I pray our right to have a gun is never taken so should you ever try and take our nation by force I can defend it against you. Fortunately this is not a novel and you and yours will forever be relegated to conservative web sites while we progressives continue to run things. Look at the sore board, we win. And if you don't like it, move to Canada.


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Who is upholding things that happened in the past such as slavery and denial of women's sufferage? You need to look more deeply into history, rather than toward what was taught to you in public schools, or maybe in your university if you went to college. Remember--Abraham Lincoln was a Republican, and the Jim Crow laws were enacted and in effect for around one-hundred years due to southern Democrats. There is a very strong double standard in the feminist movement, when you look at how conservative women are treated by the left when they don't agree with the progressive agenda. I am glad that their voices are growing stronger in opposition to those more radical feminists who have dominated our attention for decades.

Regarding your "prayer" that "our right to have a gun is never taken": Why don't you do something more pragmatic than pray? If you pay attention to the details of what is happening to our Second Amendment under the current administration,
the answer for what you should do is clear. Move to the right, and vote this administration out.

A serious look at Canada's laws and political climate will reveal that you would be more likely to be happy living there than a conservative U.S. citizen would.

I'm Such a Bird
04-12-2012, 10:02
Regarding the topic of guns from post #83:

Not my agenda, although I confess I like some regulation.

What kind of specific regulation are you referring to here, and why?

windplex
04-12-2012, 10:47
i believe most everyone has compassion for kids who are hungry and elderly who need help. that is not the question, though one party claims to care and claims the other calously does not give a rats behind. way too many straw men these days -- a sign of the person's lack of validity in their position, IMO.

the real question is how we address their needs.

we can look at what has been done to date and evaluate whether it has done more good than harm? has it been successful? has it had unintended consequences?

our social programs have trained generations to not marry the fathers of their children. have taught them not to feed their kids at home. have taught them that food cards are for anything they want but food seems to come last as they have other avenues to get food and school age kids need not be fed as they get enough calories at school.

the largest lesson the welfare state (I use that term broadly and include school lunches and all state and federal freebies) has taught the recipients is that they are not responsible for a single thing in their lives. and this is a terrible disservice to them.

of course we cannot sustain the welfare state either. and the fact that we are harming most of the recipients rather than helping them become independent and contributors to society surely is a evidence that we need radical changes.

intelligence: yes there are bright folks on all sides of political arguments as well as dullards on all sides. some join the team their culture or religion has "belonged" to over time and make their choice without critical thinking.

others read, seek information, incorporate facts and trends and form their own opinion which can be on any side.

it would be interesting to see the results of looking into education level of Rs and Ds -- that would seem to be significant as it often leads to more critical thinking. intelligence without trained critical thought process is not always useful. and yes of course their are the self taught who are supurb critical thinkers.

Skyhook
04-12-2012, 11:15
Anecdotal evidence does show that conservatives tend to eschew some science and academia--but it is simplistic to imply that conservatives do so because they are stupid. There are a number of factors, not least because liberalism has completely saturated academia, and giant blunders like the "climate change crisis" and proof of overblown claims have made anything they say suspect.

It is a vicious cycle through which conservatives avoid academia because of this mistrust, and liberals become more firmly entrenched. Conservatives instead gravitate toward think tanks, which the left lampoons as being "unscientific."

I liked this. :thumbsup:

It has become patently clear to all but the very thoroughly indoctrinated that a lot of 'higher' education is accomplished within something called *liberal arts* and those involved as teachers and students are simply involving themselves within a revolving system which oftentimes conveys accolades to the most unreasonable and most preposterous of us.

Hey, wasn't it Obama whut got hisself a Nobel prize?

And, whut 'bout that there AlGore creature.. there's real genius in that mix! :rofl:

greentriple
04-12-2012, 11:19
Wow, so much said.

Ok two things Bird, get off your condescending soap box. "like you 3 years ago". This is the type of arrogant comments both my conservative and liberal friends make that show the failure I their reasoning and illogic of their ideology. It essentially says you know nothing and your opinions matter not unless and until they are aligned with mine. If this is truly your thinking than there is no chance of change and improvement. Not because you are wrong, but because you are so wed to you ideology. And I expect as long as you post here where your opinions and ego are stroked you will dig yourself further into the blame game.

As for the question regarding levels of education between Conservatives and Progressives. A report I read a few years back claimed Conservatives have a slightly higher HS graduation rate, however progressives move noticeably ahead in undergraduate degrees and then dominate in non-professional graduate programs.




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Skyhook
04-12-2012, 11:30
Aw, geez, another 'cloaked' report!

"A report I read a few years back claimed Conservatives have a slightly higher HS graduation rate, however progressives move noticeably ahead in undergraduate degrees and then dominate in non-professional graduate programs. "

Regardless, what you mention about all those liberal/lefties excelling within a liberal/leftie-dominated sphere (bubble) more or less backs up my statement about those over-achieving liberal arts students, right?

windplex
04-12-2012, 11:47
Wow, so much said.

Ok two things Bird, get off your condescending soap box. "like you 3 years ago". This is the type of arrogant comments both my conservative and liberal friends make that show the failure I their reasoning and illogic of their ideology. It essentially says you know nothing and your opinions matter not unless and until they are aligned with mine. If this is truly your thinking than there is no chance of change and improvement. Not because you are wrong, but because you are so wed to you ideology. And I expect as long as you post here where your opinions and ego are stroked you will dig yourself further into the blame game.

As for the question regarding levels of education between Conservatives and Progressives. A report I read a few years back claimed Conservatives have a slightly higher HS graduation rate, however progressives move noticeably ahead in undergraduate degrees and then dominate in non-professional graduate programs.




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Green, The bird was as gentle as i've seen on the web. seemed like he was rooting for you more than anything else.

on education, if one pays attention in HS math and science classes you can learn critical thinking. heck that is mostly what math is about imho.

on the otherhand i know folks with liberal arts degrees from fancy colleges who lack critical thinking. what one studies does make a difference in how well they are taught to think.

my bias is conservative. i do believe when facts and history are considered most will trend to the right of where they started on positions.

that is not to say we lack compassion; i'd argue that wehave more compassion as we are willing to advocate a tougher road that is better in the long run while most wont like it in the short run.

windplex
04-12-2012, 11:51
i believe in scientific studies.

i studied the responses in this thread and we have 2 responses. both are genius level minds. both are conservative/libertarian.

the conclusion of my research is clear. conservatives are smarter than liberals.

Green please cite this study in the future:supergrin:

JFrame
04-12-2012, 11:52
Aw, geez, another 'cloaked' report!

"A report I read a few years back claimed Conservatives have a slightly higher HS graduation rate, however progressives move noticeably ahead in undergraduate degrees and then dominate in non-professional graduate programs. "

Regardless, what you mention about all those liberal/lefties excelling within a liberal/leftie-dominated sphere (bubble) more or less backs up my statement about those over-achieving liberal arts students, right?


...Which brings to mind Obama being hailed as a "genius" by the entire leftist sphere during the 2008 election cycle and immediately thereafter. One "presidential historian" in a Don Imus interview famously said that Obama had the highest I.Q. of any president in history. When Imus pressed him for the evidence of that, all the "historian" could say was, "Well -- it's obvious, isn't it?" :rofl:


.

windplex
04-12-2012, 12:04
...Which brings to mind Obama being hailed as a "genius" by the entire leftist sphere during the 2008 election cycle and immediately thereafter. One "presidential historian" in a Don Imus interview famously said that Obama had the highest I.Q. of any president in history. When Imus pressed him for the evidence of that, all the "historian" could say was, "Well -- it's obvious, isn't it?" :rofl:


.

yes his intelligence is obvious but the historian and i have come to different conclusions.

JFrame
04-12-2012, 12:06
yes his intelligence is obvious but the historian and i have come to different conclusions.


It would appear that many, if not most, Americans have come to that differing conclusion. :whistling:


.

greentriple
04-12-2012, 12:18
Wind, I wish I could site the report, but at the time it did not seem important enough to keep. I'm not saying it's accurate, just what I remember reading. As for Bird, I do not take offense at his opinions, but at the condescending claim that I've not considered things sufficiently, but like him will and will become enlightened.

As for the other two boasting poster regarding their intelligence, yea well I can make any claim about myself on a site, don't make it true. Plus taking one of those online IQ tests is not what I consider valid. I also wonder why such a bright person would need to undergo repeated testing.

Sorry, high school math ain't enough. Having loved philosophy, political theory and logic in college I can assure you algebra and calulus don't a critical thinker make.

Finally, a point that is ignored is the failure of so called thinkers on either end to believe they can be wrong and to manipulate information, history and discourse to support their ideologies. Both the right and the left live so far from reality that they fail to see it ain't one or the other. Some examples:

We need social programs in this country, people are not all equal and some need help. We have too many right now and too many that don't work and consume too much money. We should not have to pay 30% of our health premiums to cover the uninsured. We need some form of universal coverage or an accepted "tax" to cover the cost of ER uninsured visits. We can not continue to be the world police. We cant pick and choose which genocidal homocidal killing regime is ok and which is not based on political convenience We need better and more reasonable immigration policy. A militarized border is not the answer. We should have no hungry children in America. That requires a social program. We can't sustain a welfare program as we have. We must teach the able to work and not enable their wasting away.

If you really want to offend me and make me cry, play Rap music.


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greentriple
04-12-2012, 12:19
It would appear that many, if not most, Americans have come to that differing conclusion. :whistling:


.

If we had near 100% turn out at the polls I wonder what this nation would look like.


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Lethaltxn
04-12-2012, 12:52
Having loved philosophy, political theory and logic in college I can assure you algebra and calulus don't a critical thinker make.

So you chose theory and emotion based studies instead of fact?

windplex
04-12-2012, 13:29
Wind, I wish I could site the report, but at the time it did not seem important enough to keep. I'm not saying it's accurate, just what I remember reading. As for Bird, I do not take offense at his opinions, but at the condescending claim that I've not considered things sufficiently, but like him will and will become enlightened.

As for the other two boasting poster regarding their intelligence, yea well I can make any claim about myself on a site, don't make it true. Plus taking one of those online IQ tests is not what I consider valid. I also wonder why such a bright person would need to undergo repeated testing.

Sorry, high school math ain't enough. Having loved philosophy, political theory and logic in college I can assure you algebra and calulus don't a critical thinker make.

Finally, a point that is ignored is the failure of so called thinkers on either end to believe they can be wrong and to manipulate information, history and discourse to support their ideologies. Both the right and the left live so far from reality that they fail to see it ain't one or the other. Some examples:

We need social programs in this country, people are not all equal and some need help. We have too many right now and too many that don't work and consume too much money. We should not have to pay 30% of our health premiums to cover the uninsured. We need some form of universal coverage or an accepted "tax" to cover the cost of ER uninsured visits. We can not continue to be the world police. We cant pick and choose which genocidal homocidal killing regime is ok and which is not based on political convenience We need better and more reasonable immigration policy. A militarized border is not the answer. We should have no hungry children in America. That requires a social program. We can't sustain a welfare program as we have. We must teach the able to work and not enable their wasting away.

If you really want to offend me and make me cry, play Rap music.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Green, bird mentioned that you had a couple of fundamental historical facts wrong and this is so. his suggestiion to do more research into these areas is appropriate, imo. afterwhich you might keep your current opinion or it might cause you to look into some other premisses you have to verify them or debunk them. there is a biased media out there so it takes effort to seek out other sources. and there is plenty of bad science as well that is used politically; again it takes time and work to seek the truth and most dont have the time or inclination to do so.

no one in america is starving. and no one needs to starve who doesnt want to. this fact is why progressives have changed the argument to "food insecure." hell if you miss one of 21 meals a week you are "hungry" by government definition -- do you think that definition is an effort to accurately portray hunger in America or is it useful to expand the hunger industry and expand the goverment as well as its control over americans? (most hard working people skip at least one meal -- does that make us "hungry" and in need of the government? no of course not.


obama instituted catch and release at the border. our forces cannot arrest people for crossing but must simply turn them around and send them home. so whether its militarized or not it remains porus and uninforced. this is why obama can brag that border arrests are down and they are.

geopolitically you will get many here that agree we should stay home and do what we need here rather then spend treasure and american lives in other countries. my take is as a super power we will always have foreign interests that serve our nation's needs. i do not see america stopping all such actions and aid.

some areas of employment include screening for intelligence and the nature of intelligence. and many take iq tests in school and ge tthe results. it gets measured multiple times. so think of it that way rather than someone saying WOW that's a high score; let me see if i get lucky again. there are plenty of smart folks out there; ive had the great pleasure to work with many.

an open mind is a good thing no matter what your bias is. and life-long learning and the ability to change later in life bodes well for brain health.

windplex
04-12-2012, 13:31
green, you are entitled to your opinion as are we all.

and when we p[ost our opinions here we get a debate -- usually a quality one and that is fine as well.

i dont figure those with differing opinions from me are my enemy (unless they are actively destroying something i value -- which is rare.)

it would be a darned boring life to only associate with people who hold the same opinions as i do.

I'm Such a Bird
04-12-2012, 14:13
Wow, so much said.

Ok two things Bird, get off your condescending soap box. "like you 3 years ago". This is the type of arrogant comments both my conservative and liberal friends make that show the failure I their reasoning and illogic of their ideology. It essentially says you know nothing and your opinions matter not unless and until they are aligned with mine. If this is truly your thinking than there is no chance of change and improvement. Not because you are wrong, but because you are so wed to you ideology. And I expect as long as you post here where your opinions and ego are stroked you will dig yourself further into the blame game....


Let me just point out that I have consistently treated people with respect here in GTPI, and I have always been honest--even when I was an Obama supporter here. I may have been misguided and duped back then, but I am sure that several people here can remember me with those positive qualities, even when I used to "swim upstream".

You on the other hand, aside from the inherent condescension in your original post, have said such things in this thead as:


...Clearly, or maybe not so clearly, all conservatives are not stupid they just tend to be successfully with stupid ideologies b/c of their audience....

...And yes, I do have a sadistic side that enjoys reading conservatives posts challenging their assumptions and reading them go on attack mode. Tends to show true colors, fallacy in their logic and how easily they are manipulated by he power elite on he right and for that matter the left....

Wow, keep the insults and personal attacks coming. I'm relieved to know you and your kind will never ever hold enough political power to ruin this great nation. I suspect, inreference to the past you would have upheld slavery and denied woman suffrage. Keep drinking the tea. The one thing I know we agree on is that I pray our right to have a gun is never taken so should you ever try and take our nation by force I can defend it against you. Fortunately this is not a novel and you and yours will forever be relegated to conservative web sites while we progressives continue to run things. Look at the sore board, we win. And if you don't like it, move to Canada.

Like I said, we won. Cry me a river. Stop being sore losers and praying for more military spending.

That fissure, and it's rapid growth is what will destroy us. IDEOLOGY will be our undoing.

So, if you want to be left alone move away, stop talking and complaining. If you are unseen and unheard nobody will bother you.

Looks like you came here to debate from a strongly condescending position of your own, while claiming that ideology will be our undoing. Why would one do that, and yet come so unprepared? Are you being honest with us? With yourself? You haven't answered some of the previous questions that others as well as I have put toward you, so I don't really expect you to answer this post. All I ask is that you think about what you are doing here and why, and be prepared for a heated debate.

If your intentions are less than respectful and honest as you seem to indicate in your previous quotes from this thread that I have provided, then don't expect others here to be so nice with you. It is cause and effect; and along with others, you are showing your true colors, fallacies in logic, and how you have been manipulated by the elites on the left.

;)

ancient_serpent
04-13-2012, 13:12
Nicely said, Bird.

certifiedfunds
04-13-2012, 13:17
green, you are entitled to your opinion as are we all.

and when we p[ost our opinions here we get a debate -- usually a quality one and that is fine as well.

i dont figure those with differing opinions from me are my enemy (unless they are actively destroying something i value -- which is rare.)

it would be a darned boring life to only associate with people who hold the same opinions as i do.

The Progressives have been working to destroy the United States as founded, and individual liberty for about 100 years. Does that qualify Wind?

certifiedfunds
04-13-2012, 13:18
If we had near 100% turn out at the polls I wonder what this nation would look like.


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It would probably be a cesspool.

fortyofforty
04-13-2012, 13:26
The study was lead by, University of Arkansas psychologist Dr. Scott Eidelman.

A study published in "Spelling and Grammar Review" suggests one test of intelligence is whether one knows the simple past tense of the verb "lead". Homonyms don't count. Another, measures, the inappropriate use, of commas.

windplex
04-13-2012, 13:34
The Progressives have been working to destroy the United States as founded, and individual liberty for about 100 years. Does that qualify Wind?

yes!

those who belive but do nothing except vote i have no enemy issue with. those theyelect can and do cause great harm.

windplex
04-13-2012, 13:38
i've hired out plenty of research and helped execute a bunch and we did it as scientifically as possible since our money and success (failure) were on the line.

we didnt push poll; nor skew (overrate one segment) the results to "better represent" a segment -- we simply included that segment. unlike most research we did not have an agenda to justify but instead simply wanted to know answers.

i do read research to see how it was done and rarely are done properly to have merit. my guess is the one cited here falls into the lacking merit category. sure would like to read it!

JFrame
04-13-2012, 14:15
A study published in "Spelling and Grammar Review" suggests one test of intelligence is whether one knows the simple past tense of the verb "lead". Homonyms don't count. Another, measures, the inappropriate use, of commas.


Okay -- that was funny... :supergrin:


.

brickboy240
04-13-2012, 14:24
It is no secret that a popular tactic used by the left is to try to convince everyone that THEY are super smart and everyone else is stupid. They concoct polls and tests and go into detail, trying to prove that conservative or right thinking people are slow, stupid or not as intelligent as left leaning people.

This is complete nonsense. There are probably as many unintelligent people on both sides.

How do you explain people like Joe Biden and others that just never come across as smart at all?

This is just another tool in the toolbox that the left uses - trying to say that THEY are the smart ones and really know what is best for you and YOU are an idiot and incapable of making sound decisions in life.

This also stems form the fact that deep down, most leftists probably do not like America or common people and have disdain for them and wish to control them.

- brickboy240

hogfish
04-13-2012, 14:37
A study published in "Spelling and Grammar Review" suggests one test of intelligence is whether one knows the simple past tense of the verb "lead". Homonyms don't count. Another, measures, the inappropriate use, of commas.

Hah! :rofl:

windplex
04-13-2012, 15:37
It is no secret that a popular tactic used by the left is to try to convince everyone that THEY are super smart and everyone else is stupid. They concoct polls and tests and go into detail, trying to prove that conservative or right thinking people are slow, stupid or not as intelligent as left leaning people.

...
- brickboy240

+1

every democrat president since i was 18 was "the smartest president in history"