When would you shoot? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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OctoberRust
04-11-2012, 11:04
Hello Mas, I was watching a show on gangs the other day. They happened to be covering the skin heads, and how groups would target inter-racial couples to give a group beating to. This lead me to thinking of a hypothetical situation.

My girlfriend and I like to sit at parks in the evening after a fine dinner and movie. If we were sitting there, and 2-3 men with no visible weapons were to approach making threats/stating their motives, what would you do?

I've thought about obviously trying to get out of the situation, and I am a rather fast runner, but it obviously is not right (by my definition of right) at all to leave your significant other behind hoping she can run just as fast.
If this was a situation where you could not physically remove yourself and your SO out of all together, what would you do? Would you wait until they laid their hands on you to shoot, and risk losing your gun due to disparity of force?

I hope I typed this out with decent detail, as I know there are a LOT of variables that play into each situation.

Mas Ayoob
04-12-2012, 06:10
Hello Mas, I was watching a show on gangs the other day. They happened to be covering the skin heads, and how groups would target inter-racial couples to give a group beating to. This lead me to thinking of a hypothetical situation.

My girlfriend and I like to sit at parks in the evening after a fine dinner and movie. If we were sitting there, and 2-3 men with no visible weapons were to approach making threats/stating their motives, what would you do?

I've thought about obviously trying to get out of the situation, and I am a rather fast runner, but it obviously is not right (by my definition of right) at all to leave your significant other behind hoping she can run just as fast.
If this was a situation where you could not physically remove yourself and your SO out of all together, what would you do? Would you wait until they laid their hands on you to shoot, and risk losing your gun due to disparity of force?

I hope I typed this out with decent detail, as I know there are a LOT of variables that play into each situation.

Sounds like a disparity of force issue. Disparity of force means that even if the antagonist(s) are unarmed, the likelihood of their assault causing death or great bodily harm is so great that it warrants recourse to a per se weapon.

In your hypothetical, size and weight are not mentioned, but all other things being equal two to three adult males attacking one male and one female adult would probably be sufficient force of numbers to constitute disparity of force. In a situation in which those two or three are obviously assaulting and within range, expressing intent to kill or cripple, and as in your hypothetical retreat with complete safety to both victims was not reasonably possible, the case you present should warrant defensive recourse to a lethal weapon.

best,
Mas

OctoberRust
04-15-2012, 18:37
Thanks for the reply Mas, I appreciate it.

The weights would be 6'3 190 lbs and her being 5'4 and 105 lbs. I was thinking the other three would be around my size.

Would you wait until they actually laid hands on you, even if they've stated their motives, and you had no realistic means of escape, or would the practical out weigh the legal approach and shoot before they carried out what they said they were going to do?

Thanks in advance.

Mas Ayoob
04-15-2012, 20:46
I'd advise that you never try to predict what your attackers will look like. Unless someone is after you and you already know them -- in which case, you should be talking to the cops about it right now, not to me :supergrin: -- the "face of the enemy" will most often come as a surprise in armed citizen encounters.

You are not expected to take a bullet or even give the Bad Guy the first shot in a gunfight. Similarly, in the situation you hypothetically described earlier, multiple assailants who have already articulated an intent to commit murder or inflict crippling injury shouldn't be allowed into grab-your-gun range before you begin your lawful response.

Bear in mind that the history of this is that when assailants see that they are about to be shot for their transgressions, they most often break off the assault, and USUALLY no blood is shed. If you wait until they're on top of you to reveal that you are armed and capable of hurting them worse than they intend to hurt you, you've lost that critical advantage.

best,
Mas

OctoberRust
04-16-2012, 06:28
Thanks Mas, appreciate your reply again, I understand attackers come in all shapes/sizes/colors. The show just got me thinking about one particular group/scenario.

Time to go break out your book I've had for quite a while "In the gravest extreme" and give it a reading again. :supergrin:

Take care sir.