Voting Is Not the Problem… Americans Are the Problem [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruble Noon
04-14-2012, 06:17
Each election in modern America is for all practical purposes a no-reserve auction of other people’s stuff. Vote for me, says The Candidate – and I will give you some of their stuff. Or something even worse: Vote for me and I will force them to do This or That.

http://lewrockwell.com/peters-e/peters-e175.html

aircarver
04-14-2012, 06:42
Boy Howdy ! ...... :frown:

.

pugman
04-14-2012, 06:46
While I agree with this...for every politican saying "vote for me and I will give you some of their stuff" there is another one who says "vote for me and I will ALLOW you to keep some of YOURS"

Voting isn't the problem. Americans aren't the problem. The government in its current state is.

aircarver
04-14-2012, 07:08
While I agree with this...for every politican saying "vote for me and I will give you some of their stuff" there is another one who says "vote for me and I will ALLOW you to keep some of YOURS"

Voting isn't the problem. Americans aren't the problem. The government in its current state is.

:beer::beer:

.

callihan_44
04-14-2012, 10:27
I agree in the sense that a big portion of the population DOES NOT EVEN PAY ATTENTION! Unless it comes to their doorstep, they are too busy updating facebook-watching american idol etc etc etc.

QNman
04-14-2012, 10:42
Apathetic, jealous, lazy, myopic voters are the problem in this country. Tho who are easily swayed by class warfare tactics, who watch American Idol regiously, but wouldn't read a political analysis or watch a debate any more than they would volunteer for an audit.

Though sometimes I think adding to that are single-issue or angry mob voting too.

maxsnafu
04-14-2012, 10:58
Voting isn't the problem. Americans aren't the problem. The government in its current state is.

The government you speak of was voted in by...Americans.

Jeff82
04-14-2012, 11:52
It's 1858 but the issue isn't slavery: It's 'is this country going to be a progressive-socialist state or are we going to be true to our founding and have liberty for all.'

To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, we'll either be all of one or the other. We can't be both.

aircarver
04-14-2012, 16:39
The government you speak of was voted in by...Americans.

Dumb, greedy, grasping, amoral Americans ....... :frown:

.

JBnTX
04-14-2012, 17:01
Dumb, greedy, grasping, amoral Americans ....... :frown:

.


As opposed to smart, generous, giving, moral Americans?
Is the dividing line at the voting booth?

Lew Rockwell says that "Voting is not the problem, Americans are the problem".

Are there no good Americans left in the greatest country on Earth?

I don't like Lew Rockwell!:steamed:
And I've got news for him, the people of this country are not the problem.

Ruble Noon
04-14-2012, 17:31
As opposed to smart, generous, giving, moral Americans?
Is the dividing line at the voting booth?

Lew Rockwell says that "Voting is not the problem, Americans are the problem".

Are there no good Americans left in the greatest country on Earth?

I don't like Lew Rockwell!:steamed:
And I've got news for him, the people of this country are not the problem.

:rofl:

Tell me JB, how did we get to the point at which we are at if not for the people continually voting in these assassins of liberty?

JBnTX
04-14-2012, 18:35
:rofl:

Tell me JB, how did we get to the point at which we are at if not for the people continually voting in these assassins of liberty?

I don't agree that they are "assassins of liberty".
I don't think they have the power to destroy this great country.

This country's in far better shape than you Ron Paul supporters, and doom and gloomers think it is.

We're going through hard times right now and it will probably get worse in the near future, but don't underestimate the American people.

They've prevailed in worse times and they'll make it through
the coming crisis.

The people are not stupid because they rejected Ron Paul,
and America will not end because he won't be president.

Lew Rockwell.com (Eric Peters) is wrong.

JBnTX
04-14-2012, 18:49
You guys live in the freest country on Earth and all you can do is b**** about it and find things wrong.

There's a problem alright, but it's not with the country.

Lone Wolf8634
04-14-2012, 18:55
You guys live in the freest country on Earth and all you can do is b**** about it and find things wrong.

There's a problem alright, but it's not with the country.

Different perspectives lead to different conclusions.

Yours seems to lead you to believe that the American people are still of the same mentality as their great grandparents.

Mine leads me to believe that most are quite a bit more shallow and immature.

bobthellama42
04-14-2012, 19:26
I don't agree that they are "assassins of liberty".
I don't think they have the power to destroy this great country.

This country's in far better shape than you Ron Paul supporters, and doom and gloomers think it is.

We're going through hard times right now and it will probably get worse in the near future, but don't underestimate the American people.

They've prevailed in worse times and they'll make it through
the coming crisis.

The people are not stupid because they rejected Ron Paul,
and America will not end because he won't be president.

Lew Rockwell.com (Eric Peters) is wrong.


There is none so blind as he who chooses not to see.

JBnTX
04-14-2012, 20:42
There is none so blind as he who chooses not to see.


What an original response.
I'm impressed.

Skillfully criticizes me, yet artfully avoids addressing the topic of discussion.

Hef
04-15-2012, 06:36
The problem is the growing percentage of the electorate that is ignorant, uneducated, lazy, stupid, and selfish. It starts with kids in school being graduated without being properly educated first, taught to be reliant upon the government and to respect it's all-knowing, all-seeing authority.

Once these inadequately/improperly educated children become adults, they are fully accepting of the idea that they don't need to be self-sustaining members of society. They are ready to embrace the big government teat. They are taught to feel entitled to everything the government offers them, and not to care that the government must first seize it from the more productive members of society.

The politicians don't care about entitlement crowd, aside from their obvious power to re-elect them. The producers of society are little more than the piggy bank from which to bribe the entitlement crowd.

It's sickening, but worse yet, it's our fault. Collectively, we get the government we deserve.

Cavalry Doc
04-15-2012, 07:05
OK, so the big question is:

What is the alternative?

Aristocracy?

steveksux
04-15-2012, 07:48
The problem is the growing percentage of the CANDIDATES that are ignorant, uneducated, lazy, stupid, and selfish. It starts with kids in school being graduated without being properly educated first, taught to be reliant upon the government and to respect it's all-knowing, all-seeing authority.

Once these inadequately/improperly educated children become adults, they are fully accepting of the idea that they don't need to be self-sustaining members of society. They are ready to embrace the big government teat. They are taught to feel entitled to everything the government offers them, and not to care that the government must first seize it from the more productive members of society.Fixed it for you....

Randy

aircarver
04-15-2012, 07:53
It was right the first time....

.

steveksux
04-15-2012, 07:56
It was right the first time....

.Well, to be fair, it fits remarkably well either way. Almost eerie how well candidates works as well with no other changes.

Randy

steveksux
04-15-2012, 08:04
The people are not stupid because they rejected Ron Paul,
and America will not end because he won't be president.

Lew Rockwell.com (Eric Peters) is wrong.

There is none so blind as he who chooses not to see.

What an original response.
I'm impressed.

Skillfully criticizes me, yet artfully avoids addressing the topic of discussion.Even more impressive than you thought. At the same time he provided a response that is also a marvelous example of projecting as well.

Impressive feat of Ronulan technology indeed!

Randy

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 08:27
The problem is the growing percentage of the electorate that is ignorant, uneducated, lazy, stupid, and selfish...



This is very interesting. Can you expand on this statement?

Maybe tell us exactly who falls into that category, and who does not?

Do you have a source for this "growing percentage"?
How much does it increase by each year?
When did it start?
Is one group of people more likely to fall into this category than another?

Are these the people that made America the most powerful, freest and greatest country on Earth? If they didn't do it, then who did?

:rofl:

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 08:47
OK, so the big question is:

What is the alternative?

Aristocracy?


The posters in this thread have implied that "certain" people
are to stupid to vote.

They always preach that we should follow the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution, maybe they're right?

Maybe we should allow only rich, white, male landowners to vote. (That's what the founding fathers intended.)

So let's elect Ron Paul president, allow only the affluent to vote, cut off ALL social entitlement programs, bring our military home, decimate the federal government, do away with taxes, legalize drugs and live happily ever after.

:rofl:

evlbruce
04-15-2012, 10:00
Fixed it for you....

Randy

It wasn't broken.

Whether you like it or not our politicians are Americans elected by their fellow Americans. They're not any better or worse than us, they are us.

Cavalry Doc
04-15-2012, 10:22
It was right the first time....

.

I've always wondered when someone changes what another said into what they would have said, then refers to it as "fixing" it, what kind of personality trait that shows?

Cavalry Doc
04-15-2012, 10:24
The posters in this thread have implied that "certain" people
are to stupid to vote.

They always preach that we should follow the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution, maybe they're right?

Maybe we should allow only rich, white, male landowners to vote. (That's what the founding fathers intended.)

So let's elect Ron Paul president, allow only the affluent to vote, cut off ALL social entitlement programs, bring our military home, decimate the federal government, do away with taxes, legalize drugs and live happily ever after.

:rofl:

So what if someone suddenly decided that libertarians should not be allowed to vote. Or people of Indian descent, or whatever.

Yeah, when you don't agree with what the populace does, disenfranchise them. That's the path to true LIBERTY.....

Uhhh. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with that argument?

I'd think a liberty loving person would have thought of education first.

evlbruce
04-15-2012, 10:34
OK, so the big question is:

What is the alternative?

Aristocracy?

At this point can be done, there is just too much inertia built up. Far too many people don't know or just don't care:
Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses - Juvenal, 100AD

Gunhaver
04-15-2012, 10:40
OK, so the big question is:

What is the alternative?

Aristocracy?

Stop voting on civil liberty issues that affect small groups like who can marry who and what medical decisions can be made, particularly by women. Keep voting on issues that actually affect everyone like allocation of tax dollars.

But I'ma take a wild guess that doesn't sit well with you.

RC-RAMIE
04-15-2012, 10:43
The posters in this thread have implied that "certain" people
are to stupid to vote.

They always preach that we should follow the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution, maybe they're right?

Maybe we should allow only rich, white, male landowners to vote. (That's what the founding fathers intended.)

So let's elect Ron Paul president, allow only the affluent to vote, cut off ALL social entitlement programs, bring our military home, decimate the federal government, do away with taxes, legalize drugs and live happily ever after.

:rofl:

What part of RP, his supporters or the libertarian platform do you think would be ok with violating an individual right to vote, since the major part of the movement is Individual liberty and rights?

Want to know why most RP supporters are hard on you JB because you misrepresent and are flat out wrong about what he wants to do and what he believes in and will not listen when corrected.

If you will read it I just got Liberty Defined back from a friend I will let you use so you can at least be against RP for stuff he actually believes and wants to do.


"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

steveksux
04-15-2012, 11:07
It wasn't broken.

Whether you like it or not our politicians are Americans elected by their fellow Americans. They're not any better or worse than us, they are us.Then you can't blame the voters for not having anyone worth voting for.

Randy

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 11:09
Want to know why most RP supporters are hard on you JB because you misrepresent and are flat out wrong about what he wants to do and what he believes in and will not listen when corrected...


I post how Ron Paul is perceived by the American people.
Ever hear the phrase, "perception is reality"?

Why else is Ron Paul such a miserable failure in the republican primaries?

Either the majority of Americans, and myself, are correct about Ron Paul,
or he's done a very piss poor job of getting his message out.

Which do you think it is?


And Ron Paul supporters are hard on me because they're sore losers.
They can't stand that the majority of Americans agree with me about Ron Paul.

..

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 11:19
Then you can't blame the voters for not having anyone worth voting for.

Randy


If you're saying that none of the republican candidates is worth voting for,
then you must be a democrat?

Is Barack Obama more to your liking?

Ruble Noon
04-15-2012, 11:35
I post how Ron Paul is perceived by the American people.
Ever hear the phrase, "perception is reality"?

Why else is Ron Paul such a miserable failure in the republican primaries?

Either the majority of Americans, and myself, are correct about Ron Paul,
or he's done a very piss poor job of getting his message out.

Which do you think it is?


And Ron Paul supporters are hard on me because they're sore losers.
They can't stand that the majority of Americans agree with me about Ron Paul.

..

Well JB, I think you are right. The majority of Americans like their socialism, you included.

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 12:06
Well JB, I think you are right. The majority of Americans like their socialism, you included.


No, the majority of Americans don't like their socialism, me included.

You have to get past the fact that just because someone doesn't like Ron Paul,
it doesn't mean they like socialism or hate the constitution.

That mentality has turned off a lot of potential RP supporters, including me.

Ron Paul supporters have defeated themselves at the voting booth,
yet they insist that it's everyone else that's the problem.

I've never understood how you can think that simply because a person
doesn't vote as you think they should, that they are stupid and are destroying America.

Nothing could be farther from the truth! This country is alive and well.
This country is not doomed for destruction just because nobody voted for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul supporters are just sore losers.

I can't wait for the SOB to drop out of the race and maybe all you arrogant
doom and gloomers will go away.

Ruble Noon
04-15-2012, 12:22
No, the majority of Americans don't like their socialism, me included.

You have to get past the fact that just because someone doesn't like Ron Paul,
it doesn't mean they like socialism or hate the constitution.

That mentality has turned off a lot of potential RP supporters, including me.

Ron Paul supporters have defeated themselves at the voting booth,
yet they insist that it's everyone else that's the problem.

I've never understood how you can think that simply because a person
doesn't vote as you think they should, that they are stupid and are destroying America.

Nothing could be farther from the truth! This country is alive and well.
This country is not doomed for destruction just because nobody voted for Ron Paul.

Ron Paul supporters are just sore losers.

I can't wait for the SOB to drop out of the race and maybe all you arrogant
doom and gloomers will go away.

:rofl:

I think we have already established the fact that you are a Fabian Socialist.

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 12:30
:rofl:

I think we have already established the fact that you are a Fabian Socialist.


You just proved my point.
Your only response is to attack me.:faint:

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 13:29
The government you speak of was voted in by...Americans.

No, no it wasn't.

It was corrupted by the courts and Congresses past. Now, its a self-perpetuating organism.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 13:34
I don't agree that they are "assassins of liberty".
I don't think they have the power to destroy this great country.



JB - when you say "this great country", what exactly are you referring to?

The land?

The homo sapiens that occupy it?

The government?

What exactly do you believe makes it "great" ?

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 13:36
OK, so the big question is:

What is the alternative?

Aristocracy?

Restoration of the anti-democratic measures the framers originally instilled in the COTUS. THAT is the answer.

I'll give you 3 guesses which one comes first. :supergrin:

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 13:41
JB - when you say "this great country", what exactly are you referring to?

The land?

The homo sapiens that occupy it?

The government?

What exactly do you believe makes it "great" ?


What Makes America Great - YouTube

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 13:45
What Makes America Great - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekn2Y08NSZw)

:rofl::rofl:You owe me an new laptop!!!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Did you listen the the part about the Constitution?

steveksux
04-15-2012, 14:01
If you're saying that none of the republican candidates is worth voting for,
then you must be a democrat?

Is Barack Obama more to your liking?
You must have had trouble in English class.

Randy

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 14:09
:rofl::rofl:You owe me an new laptop!!!!!!:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Did you listen the the part about the Constitution?


Yes and I agree with every word.

I disagree with you Ron Paul supporters that the US government is evil and is out to kill every American citizen or enslave them in concentration camps.

This country is not doomed into oblivion just because we've hit a rough patch and run up some debt.

Nobody's taking away your rights. You live in the freest country on Earth and it wouldn't kill you to say something positive about it once in a while.

You've made this country out to be worse than Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia, all because the American people have rejected your anarchist libertarian political ideology.

This is still a great country and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

G-19
04-15-2012, 15:18
Yes and I agree with every word.

I disagree with you Ron Paul supporters that the US government is evil and is out to kill every American citizen or enslave them in concentration camps.

This country is not doomed into oblivion just because we've hit a rough patch and run up some debt.

Nobody's taking away your rights. You live in the freest country on Earth and it wouldn't kill you to say something positive about it once in a while.

You've made this country out to be worse than Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia, all because the American people have rejected your anarchist libertarian political ideology.

This is still a great country and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

That is probably why the only real air time RP gets is on Alex Jones.:rofl:

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 15:50
Yes and I agree with every word.



Not based on your posting history, you don't. You tear down the bill of rights.

I disagree with you Ron Paul supporters that the US government is evil and is out to kill every American citizen or enslave them in concentration camps.



Then you disagree with the founding fathers too, because that's pretty much how they viewed government.

This country is not doomed into oblivion just because we've hit a rough patch and run up some debt.



That's debatable. Its a matter of math. If we haven't reached the point of doom, we're damned close.

Nobody's taking away your rights.

:faint: Every moment of your day is taxed and regulated. Factions within the government work every day to take away your rights. That's a fact, not my opinion.

You live in the freest country on Earth and it wouldn't kill you to say something positive about it once in a while.



I say positive things about the country we were promised. I weep for it. You despise that country.

You've made this country out to be worse than Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia, all because the American people have rejected your anarchist libertarian political ideology.



If you believe this statement, you're an ignorant fool.

This is still a great country and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Foreseable future? Why not for eternity, JB?

Bren
04-15-2012, 16:01
It's a democracy, mostly, so it's pretty obvious the probem is US. About the best we can hope for now is to slow down the decline so we can die before it gets too much worse.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 16:13
Either the majority of Americans, and myself, are correct about Ron Paul,
or he's done a very piss poor job of getting his message out.

Which do you think it is?

..

False dichotomy. No surprise.

Truth of the matter is that the majority of Americans don't understand the Constitution. Yourself included.

And Ron Paul supporters are hard on me because they're sore losers.
They can't stand that the majority of Americans agree with me about Ron Paul.

No, we're hard on you because you paint yourself as a conservative while extolling Progressive principles.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 16:14
It's a democracy, mostly, so it's pretty obvious the probem is US. About the best we can hope for now is to slow down the decline so we can die before it gets too much worse.

Watch who you group into the "US".

I'm not part of the problem.

Ruble Noon
04-15-2012, 16:22
What Makes America Great - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekn2Y08NSZw)

Dude, WTF? You're the one that wants to scrap our constitution and write a new one. :upeyes:

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 16:25
Dude, WTF? You're the one that wants to scrap our constitution and write a new one. :upeyes:

Moronic stuff like that is what makes me strongly suspect he's a mental defective. Traumatic head injury or the like.

9jeeps
04-15-2012, 16:32
I still like the idea:

A non property owner or non taxpayer.

CAN NOT VOTE!!!

Rich or poor!:tongueout:

pugman
04-15-2012, 17:06
and run up some debt.

This is the equivalent of saying the twin towers were just a couple of buildings. The debt crisis in this country is that serious.

The latest estimate is the federal government has $211 trillion dollars in obligations over the next 30 years; without taking half the GDP of this country they have zero chance of meeting this obligation.

Federal tax revenue needs to increase over 300% from 2010 levels or you cut benefits by 60% if I remember my estimates.

This is still a great country and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

I agree wholly on the first part...the federal government will fail be it a civil war, WW3, economic collaspe, etc within the next 30 years. The failure of the fed is the most predictable train wreck in history. Why? There is simply no plan to stop it.

When Obama raised the debt ceiling the first time the agreed upon spending cuts dont' take affect until the last few years of this decade...he and probably quite a few of the current representatives won't even be in office to deal with it.

The current plan is there is no plan

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 20:44
Dude, WTF? You're the one that wants to scrap our constitution and write a new one. :upeyes:

I've stated that we should amend our constitution and update it in order to make the federal government smaller and less powerful.

How you can't agree with that is beyond me?:dunno:

Maybe your pride won't let you agree with me because of that Ron Paul thing?

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 20:46
I've stated that we should amend our constitution and update it in order to make the federal government smaller and less powerful.



You're lying.

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 20:49
You're lying.

Go ahead and re-post a bunch of my earlier posts that you've taken out of context and prove it.

You've made it out to be that I hate this country, I hate the constitution,
I don't know anything about freedom and liberty, and I'm a fool.

None of that is true and you know it.

All of this because I'm right about Ron Paul.

I must be standing on your last nerve?
I know I'm living rent free in your mind.:rofl:

juggy4711
04-15-2012, 21:22
...This country is not doomed into oblivion just because we've hit a rough patch and run up some debt...

Ok JB you love the Founders and the country so much argue with one of them.

"...In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other...." Ben Franklin

He knew exactly how this would end because he understood the flaws of man and the flaws of the CotUS created by men.

I often post that quote and of all the times I have, it's only been directly addressed once. Reason being it can not be argued with. I have much more respect for the opinion of those that just want to keep electing stop gap measures to extend their comfort than the delusional belief that anyone or any political party can actually fix things.

juggy4711
04-15-2012, 21:23
No, no it wasn't.

It was corrupted by the courts and Congresses past. Now, its a self-perpetuating organism.

I rarely find myself in disagreement with you Cert, but how is it the courts and Congresses past were able to do so without our collective consent or apathy?

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 21:26
Go ahead and re-post a bunch of my earlier posts that you've taken out of context and prove it.

You've made it out to be that I hate this country, I hate the constitution,
I don't know anything about freedom and liberty, and I'm a fool.

None of that is true and you know it.

All of this because I'm right about Ron Paul.

I must be standing on your last nerve?
I know I'm living rent free in your mind.:rofl:

According to Ron Paul supporters the true enemies of the constitution
are those that refuse to vote for Ron Paul.

Also, people who think the constitution should be a flexible and adaptable document
designed to serve the needs of the people instead of the needs of the government,
are enemies of the constitution.

The worst offenders are the ones who believe the constitution should be updated
to reflect today's population and economy.

Basically, if you're not a Ron Paul supporter and don't blindly follow a badly outdated 200 year old document, you're an enemy of the constitution.

This is according to Ron Paul supporters.



I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm just as supportive of small government as you are.
I just recognize that government has certain responsibilities that didn't exist when the
founding fathers drafted the constitution.

Today we have a completely different country than we did way back in 1787,
when the constitution was signed.

We have people today who truly need help with their lives and the federal government is best equipped to do that.

We have problems today that are best handled by the federal government,
even though those duties are not in the constitution.

You and others here paint the government with a broad brush and believe
that the government is evil.

You're wrong because the government has accomplished many good things for it's people.

A strict constitutionalist government, like the one Ron Paul endorses, would be a disaster for this country. The American people have confirmed that with the wholesale rejection of Ron Paul and his policies.

Under Ron Paul's government poor people would starve, the states would all have different solutions for problems resulting in nothing getting done and the union would be weaker because the individual states would eventually challenge the authority of the federal government.

Following the constitution word for word is just an excuse to ignore and neglect serious problems we have in today's society.

Here's to your constitution.

27 amendments.
Is it perfect now, or does it need some more amendments? "Your" constitution. Not "our" constitution. Not "the" constitution.

I don't have to apologize for or repeat my beliefs about the constitution.
I view the constitution differently than you do, that's all.

There are two major interpretations of the constitution.
You believe one and I the other.
They use the constitution, conservatism and liberty as weapons.
Myself, I simply realize that in today's world, which is greatly different than back in 1787,
the government has certain responsibilities that are not mentioned in the constitution.
This could go on for days.......

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 21:30
I rarely find myself in disagreement with you Cert, but how is it the courts and Congresses past were able to do so without our collective consent or apathy?

The courts don't need your consent.

Fundamental changes to the Constitution occurred 100 years ago and still bind us today.

Current: Obamacare was opposed by the majority of the country. Elections occurred and we turned over the Congress. Obamacare still exists.

The game has been rigged. Corrupt. You have no say.

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 21:32
And no where in all that have you proven your point.

Everything I've said is true. This is an entirely different country from how
it was in the 1700's. We need a constitution that reflects that change.

We need smaller government, not only in power but size.
Do we really need over 400 representatives in the House?
Don't we need a better way to elect a president?

Do you really want to go back to the original intent of the founding fathers
where the constitution and the rights listed in it were intended only for rich,
white, male land owners?

You really are desperate to trip me up, aren't you?:rofl:

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 21:40
And no where in all that have you proven your point.

Everything I've said is true.

You really are desperate to trip me up, aren't you?:rofl:

I didn't want to take them out of context. Here, I'll edit for you.

Explain how you mean this to be smaller government:

The worst offenders are the ones who believe the constitution should be updated
to reflect today's population and economy. How does adding more responsibilities make for smaller government?

I just recognize that government has certain responsibilities that didn't exist when the
founding fathers drafted the constitution. How is this smaller government?

We have people today who truly need help with their lives and the federal government is best equipped to do that.
Bigger government:

We have problems today that are best handled by the federal government,
even though those duties are not in the constitution. Bigger government:

A strict constitutionalist government, like the one Ron Paul endorses, would be a disaster for this country. Bigger government:

Under Ron Paul's government poor people would starve, the states would all have different solutions for problems resulting in nothing getting done and the union would be weaker because the individual states would eventually challenge the authority of the federal government.

More bigger government:

Myself, I simply realize that in today's world, which is greatly different than back in 1787,
the government has certain responsibilities that are not mentioned in the constitution.

juggy4711
04-15-2012, 21:42
The courts don't need your consent.

Fundamental changes to the Constitution occurred 100 years ago and still bind us today.

Current: Obamacare was opposed by the majority of the country. Elections occurred and we turned over the Congress. Obamacare still exists.

The game has been rigged. Corrupt. You have no say.

I'm picking up what you are throwing down and should have sooner. In that context the game has been fixed since the Supreme Court ruled secession unconstitutional.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 21:44
I'm picking up what you are throwing down and should have sooner. In that context the game has been fixed since the Supreme Court ruled secession unconstitutional.

Like that.

They have so rigged the game that it is virtually impossible to effect real change.

Layers upon layers.....

I didn't even touch on gerrymandering, which has the defacto effect of nullifying votes.

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 21:45
None of that requires that the government get bigger or more powerful.

Maybe if you didn't view the US government as some evil creature just waiting to devour it's citizens, you'd be able to understand that.

Our government could do a lot better for the people with far less
size and power.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 21:46
Juggy - what % of people are opposed to the excessive deficit spending?

We put the Tea Party into Congress and what did they do? Raise the debt ceiling.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 21:47
None of that requires that the government get bigger or more powerful.

Maybe if you didn't view the US government as some evil creature just waiting to devour it's citizens, you'd be able to understand that.

Our government could do a lot better for the people with far less
size and power.

JB - how does government take on new duties and responsibilities that aren't currently provided for, and not get bigger?

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 21:55
JB - how does government take on new duties and responsibilities that aren't currently provided for, and not get bigger?


Quit spending millions on stuff like studying the sex life of
Mexican jumping beans would be a start.

A lot of waste can be cut and that money used to benefit the American citizen.

A lot of existing federal agencies need to either go away or be reorganized to better serve this country.

Washington DC needs a reality check that can only come from the voters. We need to vote out ALL incumbents and end the era of the career politician.

The federal government needs to learn how to do more with less.
It can be done.

To accomplish that we need people to vote.

RC-RAMIE
04-15-2012, 21:59
Quit spending millions on stuff like studying the sex life of
Mexican jumping beans would be a start.

A lot of waste can be cut and that money used to benefit the American citizen.

A lot of existing federal agencies need to either go away or be reorganized to better serve this country.

Washington DC needs a reality check that can only come from the voters. We need to vote out ALL incumbents and end the era of the career politician.

The federal government needs to learn how to do more with less.

To accomplish we need people to vote.

So you don't want smaller government you just want government to do more of what you think is right. How about government does only what it is limited to in the COTUS


"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 22:02
Quit spending millions on stuff like studying the sex life of
Mexican jumping beans would be a start.

A lot of waste can be cut and that money used to benefit the American citizen.

A lot of existing federal agencies need to either go away or be reorganized to better serve this country.

Washington DC needs a reality check that can only come from the voters. We need to vote out ALL incumbents and end the era of the career politician.

The federal government needs to learn how to do more with less.
It can be done.

To accomplish that we need people to vote.

Cost isn't what determines the size of government. Money is just a tool government uses to grow.

The size of government is determined HOW MUCH IT DOES and HOW MUCH IT AFFECTS YOUR LIFE.

Right here in this post, you are once again aruging for bigger government.

You are not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 22:03
So you don't want smaller government you just want government to do more of what you think is right. How about government does only what it is limited to in the COTUS


"Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it is realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy. - Ron Paul

Well, that's just it. He wants to trash the COTUS we have and remake it to provide for BIGGER GOVERNMENT.

QNman
04-15-2012, 22:03
"Your" constitution. Not "our" constitution. Not "the" constitution.

This could go on for days.......

I believe they call that being completely PWNED!

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee32/QNman/Undertaker.jpg

QNman
04-15-2012, 22:05
I didn't want to take them out of context. Here, I'll edit for you.

Explain how you mean this to be smaller government:

How does adding more responsibilities make for smaller government?

How is this smaller government?

Bigger government:

Bigger government:

Bigger government:



More bigger government:

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark...

JBnTX
04-15-2012, 22:09
You are not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination.



Why do you feel you need to catalog and categorize me?
You don't do that with any other posters?

So what if I say (or think) I'm a conservative and you don't
think I am? What difference does it make?

If you proved me to be the biggest liar on the internet, what would it change?

You seem to be wasting a lot of time and effort on little old me for some reason.

juggy4711
04-15-2012, 22:10
Juggy - what % of people are opposed to the excessive deficit spending?

We put the Tea Party into Congress and what did they do? Raise the debt ceiling.

In my experience, of those sharing their views on the subject whether they knew they were doing so or not, I'd say a very very small minority. MAYBE as large as 10-20% of those that actually vote and PERHAPS 5% of those eligible to do so. Honestly I would say those figures are generous.

To be fair though, the so called TEA party was likely a small portion of the Republican's that were elected to congress in 2010. A lot of them just took advantage of the ABO/ABaD vote.

QNman
04-15-2012, 22:10
None of that requires that the government get bigger or more powerful.

Maybe if you didn't view the US government as some evil creature just waiting to devour it's citizens, you'd be able to understand that.

Our government could do a lot better for the people with far less
size and power.

JB - ALL government is evil. Not all members, and not all the time, but as long as people are running governments, power brokers will get in. And many of them don't give two squirts about you or I.

The government does NOT need to add more services. If a gap exists, get out there and plug it. Do it for profit, do it for charity, but just do it. Quit waiting for big gov to provide.

Because a government who can give you everything can also take anything.

juggy4711
04-15-2012, 22:16
JB - ALL government is evil. Not all members, and not all the time, but as long as people are running governments, power brokers will get in. And many of them don't give two squirts about you or I.

The government does NOT need to add more services. If a gap exists, get out there and plug it. Do it for profit, do it for charity, but just do it. Quit waiting for big gov to provide.

Because a government who can give you everything can also take anything.

We really are wasting our breathe. JB is convinced the actions of our government are the same as the ideals it is supposed to stand for. As long as he agrees with those actions that is.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 22:18
Why do you feel you need to catalog and categorize me?
You don't do that with any other posters?

So what if I say (or think) I'm a conservative and you don't
think I am? What difference does it make?

If you proved me to be the biggest liar on the internet, what would it change?

You seem to be wasting a lot of time and effort on little old me for some reason.

You come here trolling, picking fights with Ron Paul supporters and beating your chest about being conservative, when you aren't.

You pollute the ranks.

That was hardly cataloging. Took me a few clicks and about 5 minutes. You're all over GT touting Progressive principles.

Again, if you tell me your mentally defective I'll just ignore you out of pity.

certifiedfunds
04-15-2012, 22:21
In my experience, of those sharing their views on the subject whether they knew they were doing so or not, I'd say a very very small minority. MAYBE as large as 10-20% of those that actually vote and PERHAPS 5% of those eligible to do so. Honestly I would say those figures are generous.

To be fair though, the so called TEA party was likely a small portion of the Republican's that were elected to congress in 2010. A lot of them just took advantage of the ABO/ABaD vote.

Fair enough.

My point being, we executed a huge upheaval. We threw the bastards out.

And they raised the debt ceiling. Again. And we still have Obamacare.

Nothing has changed.

juggy4711
04-15-2012, 22:32
Fair enough.

My point being, we executed a huge upheaval. We threw the bastards out.

And they raised the debt ceiling. Again. And we still have Obamacare.

Nothing has changed.

No arguments from me on that. Best it did was give so called conservatives a false sense of hope. Far as I am concerned we have run our course and there is no longer a fix. Best I can do is go to sleep at night knowing I did not continue to give my consent and contribute to our fall. I'd rather have a clear conscious than know I voted for it regardless of the party that brings it.

Cavalry Doc
04-16-2012, 04:42
Stop voting on civil liberty issues that affect small groups like who can marry who and what medical decisions can be made, particularly by women. Keep voting on issues that actually affect everyone like allocation of tax dollars.

But I'ma take a wild guess that doesn't sit well with you.

Wild guess failed. And the attempted insult is not really what I was talking about.

Who would decide what to vote on? It seems that wanting to disenfranchise citizens is a very dangerous proposition.

Everyone is equal, but some or more "equal" than others. Don't they teach animal farm in schools anymore.

Cavalry Doc
04-16-2012, 04:47
Restoration of the anti-democratic measures the framers originally instilled in the COTUS. THAT is the answer.

I'll give you 3 guesses which one comes first. :supergrin:

I can see the logic in limiting the power of populations that you don't agree with as a way to "fix" things.

But how does that increase liberty for all citizens?

What happens if you are one of the ones excluded from participation. Or what if the liberals had the same idea, but got there first?

Stubudd
04-16-2012, 04:54
Why do you feel you need to catalog and categorize me?
You don't do that with any other posters?

So what if I say (or think) I'm a conservative and you don't
think I am? What difference does it make?

If you proved me to be the biggest liar on the internet, what would it change?

You seem to be wasting a lot of time and effort on little old me for some reason.

Why do feel the need to troll RP supporters? You post the same lies and stupid misrepresentations over and over and over, troll thread after troll thread, contradicting yourself the whole way, and then say why don't you guys leave poor me alone? lol

Why don't you ever get any smarter?

certifiedfunds
04-16-2012, 05:36
I can see the logic in limiting the power of populations that you don't agree with as a way to "fix" things.

But how does that increase liberty for all citizens?

What happens if you are one of the ones excluded from participation. Or what if the liberals had the same idea, but got there first?

I'm not excluding anyone from participation. I'm talking about curbing the unfettered democracy that has knocked things off kilter.

It increases liberty because no citizen need be tormented by the tyranny of a majority.

certifiedfunds
04-16-2012, 05:39
Why do feel the need to troll RP supporters? You post the same lies and stupid misrepresentations over and over and over, troll thread after troll thread, contradicting yourself the whole way, and then say why don't you guys leave poor me alone? lol

Why don't you ever get any smarter?

I strongly suspect he isn't playing with a full mental capacity or what you or I would call normal.

Bren
04-16-2012, 05:46
Never mind

Jeff82
04-16-2012, 11:14
JB it's pretty obvious you haven't a clue as to the meaning and intent of the US Constitution.

I urge you all to take the free Constitution 101 course offered by Hillsdale College. I thought I knew the Constitution and what it was all about but I learn new things every lesson. It's even evolved my thoughts about States Rights re: slavery and the Civil War.

http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/

This course gives you the "why's and wherefore's" about our system of government and why it is so special in the history of the world. Extremely eye-opening.

RC-RAMIE
04-16-2012, 11:16
JB it's pretty obvious you haven't a clue as to the meaning and intent of the US Constitution.

I urge you all to take the free Constitution 101 course offered by Hillsdale College. I thought I knew the Constitution and what it was all about but I learn new things every lesson. It's even evolved my thoughts about States Rights re: slavery and the Civil War.

http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/

This course gives you the "why's and wherefore's" about our system of government and why it is so special in the history of the world. Extremely eye-opening.

Thanks for the reminder I signed up for that and been so busy I havent got around to it.

walt cowan
04-16-2012, 14:46
the problem is that all the elections are rigged. fix that and everything else will fall into place.

certifiedfunds
04-16-2012, 19:25
JB it's pretty obvious you haven't a clue as to the meaning and intent of the US Constitution.

I urge you all to take the free Constitution 101 course offered by Hillsdale College. I thought I knew the Constitution and what it was all about but I learn new things every lesson. It's even evolved my thoughts about States Rights re: slavery and the Civil War.

http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/

This course gives you the "why's and wherefore's" about our system of government and why it is so special in the history of the world. Extremely eye-opening.

Thank you for the reminder also:wavey:

Ruble Noon
04-16-2012, 20:23
Fair enough.

My point being, we executed a huge upheaval. We threw the bastards out.

And they raised the debt ceiling. Again. And we still have Obamacare.

Nothing has changed.

Here's your answer

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal
Emma Goldman

certifiedfunds
04-16-2012, 20:32
Here's your answer

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal
Emma Goldman



No ****, huh?

Funny they don't require a 4473 before voting.........

juggy4711
04-16-2012, 21:00
JB it's pretty obvious you haven't a clue as to the meaning and intent of the US Constitution.

I urge you all to take the free Constitution 101 course offered by Hillsdale College. I thought I knew the Constitution and what it was all about but I learn new things every lesson. It's even evolved my thoughts about States Rights re: slavery and the Civil War.

http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/

This course gives you the "why's and wherefore's" about our system of government and why it is so special in the history of the world. Extremely eye-opening.

Heard about that on the Radio thanks for the reminder.