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Ruble Noon
04-16-2012, 15:14
Taking an audacious and shocking angle against the constitutional eligibility mandate, Obama’s lawyer, Alexandra Hill, admitted that the image of Obama’s birth certificate was a forgery and made the absurd claim that, therefore, it cannot be used as evidence to confirm his lack of natural born citizenship status. Therefore, she argued, it is “irrelevant to his placement on the ballot”.

http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2012/04/obama-lawyer-admits-forgery-but.html

windplex
04-16-2012, 15:18
deleted

aircarver
04-16-2012, 16:16
People need to start going to jail .....

.

windplex
04-16-2012, 16:17
duplicate

aircarver
04-16-2012, 16:22
The wheels of justice turn slow.... but they're turnin' .....

.

coastal4974
04-16-2012, 16:27
I bet 60% of the Dems would be outraged if they ever found out what the little Nazi was hiding,10% would be cheering and the other 30% still wouldn’t get it.

smokeross
04-16-2012, 16:30
I become more convinced every day that he absolutely has to be the Antichrist.

Skyhook
04-16-2012, 16:48
I become more convinced every day that he absolutely has to be the Antichrist.

Well, I absolutely agree with Dick Cheney's comment- Obama has been an unmitigated disaster..


Obama is a tool; not a simple tool, but a tool nonetheless.
:steamed:

MZBKA
04-16-2012, 16:50
I bet 60% of the Dems would be outraged if they ever found out what the little Nazi was hiding,10% would be cheering and the other 30% still wouldn’t get it.

I bet 60% of Americans would be offended that you compare Obama to those who murdered 11 million people, 30% wouldn't get it, and 10% would be your fellow Glen Beck admirers.

We should be focusing on Obama's handling of the economy. Unless you all want the GOP to do as well as Donald Trump.

Gundude
04-16-2012, 17:03
Obama lawyer admits forgeryOf course it never happened, but when did that matter to birthers?

Gundude
04-16-2012, 17:10
If I went and photocopied my driver's license at Kinko's, then went to board an airliner using that as my ID, would I be able to get on?

Am I admitting that copy of my license is a forgery because I acknowledge I wouldn't be able to get on a plane with it?

Javelin
04-16-2012, 17:10
EVERYONE who has a brain knows he is not a natural born citizen.

But no one wants to push the subject because it is unpopular.

Gundude
04-16-2012, 17:14
EVERYONE who has a brain knows he is not a natural born citizen.

But no one wants to push the subject because it is unpopular.How do they know that? Has anybody ever presented evidence suggesting that?

Ruble Noon
04-16-2012, 17:18
Of course it never happened, but when did that matter to birthers?

What never happened? His being born in the US? That's kind of the point of the coverup is it not?

callihan_44
04-16-2012, 18:10
How do they know that? Has anybody ever presented evidence suggesting that?

has anyone provided a legit BC?

Gundude
04-16-2012, 18:14
has anyone provided a legit BC?Yes, the goverment of Hawaii:

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

callihan_44
04-16-2012, 18:19
Yes, the goverment of Hawaii:

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/News_Release_Birth_Certificate_042711.pdf

so was this the one with with layers of pasted info that could be seen in illustrator?

Gundude
04-16-2012, 18:20
so was this the one with with layers of pasted info that could be seen in illustrator?No. It was a certified paper copy.

coastal4974
04-16-2012, 18:22
I bet 60% of Americans would be offended that you compare Obama to those who murdered 11 million people, 30% wouldn't get it, and 10% would be your fellow Glen Beck admirers.

We should be focusing on Obama's handling of the economy. Unless you all want the GOP to do as well as Donald Trump.

I'll put you in the 30% then, right there with your fellow Van Jones admirers.

In his first term, the Obama made more slaves than the Barbary pirates.

In his second, he can be more “flexible”.

Hows that for focusing on the economy?

windplex
04-16-2012, 18:52
duplicate

G17Jake
04-16-2012, 19:15
political popularity, not legal qualifications to be a candidate? I didn't realize this was satire.

coastal4974
04-16-2012, 20:05
here is my wager on this subject. if democrats were polled whether it would be acceptable to after election learn that a president did not meet the requirements - born here - and this were asked before the obama controversy then yes a good percentage would object.

however its my experience related to research groups that once they are familiar with something, in this case the president for 3 years, then they would rationalize and say well its ok. some would answer both questions - the generic saying not acceptable then the specific - obama -- and say that is acceptable in a span of minutes apart.

thats my wager. only a small percentage would object to his remaining in office after these 3 years no matter what they learn about his citezenship.

I don't know if that is what he is hiding. What ever it is the Obama is working very hard and spending a lot of money to keep it from us. Some idiots don't care what it is, that's the worst part.

juggy4711
04-16-2012, 20:17
I decided from the first moment I heard that BO wasn't born in the US back in '08 that he was. It was too good to be true, it still is and sadly I don't think it would make a difference if it was.

Bren
04-16-2012, 20:31
Interpreting the rantings of an idiot trying to comprehend law, in that article - I'm guessing the author means she argued the "best evidence rule". It has nothing to do with whether a genuine birth certificate exists - it just says that if you are going to argue about the contents of Obama's birth certificate, you have to use the original, not the computer generated summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_evidence_rule

It may be a forgery, but every time a "birther" writes some BS like that, it is used to discredit the whole idea.

cowboywannabe
04-16-2012, 20:42
Democrats would elect joseph stalin if he promised to give them what they wanted.....just as an illegal in the white house means nothing to them.

Javelin
04-16-2012, 20:45
How do they know that? Has anybody ever presented evidence suggesting that?

Because if the SOB had a damn BC then he would have shown it instead of spending millions upon millions keeping the issue out of court.

But here is a short list of issues with the Birth Certificate he had forged and presented as his citizenship.

1. The patterned background is too seamless for a document kept in a bound volume [for decades].
2. The “Date Accepted” is four days later than “Date of Birth.”
3. Smudges in box next to name of attendant.
4. M.D. who signed the document conveniently died eight years ago.
5. Two mysterious Xs above “twin” and “triplet.”
6. Unexplained “8991” on document's right side.
7. “41” at to right of document looks suspicious.
8. Birth certificate of someone born at the same hospital a day later has a lower number.
9. There is no official seal.
10. Still says “Certificate of Live Birth.”
11. Instead of “African” under father's race, “Colored” or “Negro” would have been used in 1961.
12. The type for “Caucasian” is too perfect, not possible for a typewriter from 1961.
13. No footprint.
14. No birth weight.
15. Signature of mother and attendant are too similar.
16. Under hour of birth, the “M.” in “P.M.” is a different font.
17. Address for Obama's childhood home is the middle of a highway.
18. Hawaii's Governor until recently claimed there was no birth certificate.
19. Obviously Photoshopped. Layers!
20. We all know his real name is Barry Saetoro [Soetoro] and he changed his name to Barack Obama after visiting Pakistan.



Hey it's that old liberal saying "if you got nothing to hide"... right? Why doesn't he just let it go to court instead of paying lawyers to keep this issue out of the reach of jurisprudence and application of law.

Gunnut 45/454
04-16-2012, 20:55
Gundude
Which someone in the White House scanned into a computer and made the changes seen in the one posted on the Official White House web site! There fore commiting a felony! Using a Government computer to generate a frudulant document is a FELONY!
This means Obama knew this was done! He made a public announcement to the fact!
I don't remember him stating at anytime that he didn't know it was posted by his request on the White House web site? So he knowing allowed the felony to be commited. Gee I think we have all we need for impeachment now!:steamed:

mj9mm
04-16-2012, 21:22
this country is in such a sad state of affairs, it would almost be easier to start over.:crying:

juggy4711
04-16-2012, 21:30
...But here is a short list of issues with the Birth Certificate he had forged and presented as his citizenship...

Hey it's that old liberal saying "if you got nothing to hide"... right? Why doesn't he just let it go to court instead of paying lawyers to keep this issue out of the reach of jurisprudence and application of law.

I'll admit I have not looked into the matter that much, as it wouldn't make a difference, but as foul as BO and his cohorts are they aren't stupid enough to have made that many mistakes.

As to the second question, it's because it gives him ammo to say "Let me be clear, I am an American born in one of the 57 states, Hawaii the one in Asia to be specific, and all these birthers are the same as 9/11 truthers". In other words, it helps him discredit those opposed to his politics.

steveksux
04-16-2012, 21:31
No. It was a certified paper copy.Actually, the FL officials (Republicans) are in charge of the original, not just a copy. They verified he was born in HI using that. Back before he was elected, during the campaign.

Randy

snerd
04-16-2012, 22:13
....... We should be focusing on Obama's handling of the economy.....
LOL! Could you point me to some media, any media, that is covering that particular subject? Anything! Print, network, cable? Morse code over ham radio maybe?

Gundude
04-16-2012, 22:55
Because if the SOB had a damn BC then he would have shown it instead of spending millions upon millions keeping the issue out of court.

But here is a short list of issues with the Birth Certificate he had forged and presented as his citizenship.

1. The patterned background is too seamless for a document kept in a bound volume [for decades].
2. The “Date Accepted” is four days later than “Date of Birth.”
3. Smudges in box next to name of attendant.
4. M.D. who signed the document conveniently died eight years ago.
5. Two mysterious Xs above “twin” and “triplet.”
6. Unexplained “8991” on document's right side.
7. “41” at to right of document looks suspicious.
8. Birth certificate of someone born at the same hospital a day later has a lower number.
9. There is no official seal.
10. Still says “Certificate of Live Birth.”
11. Instead of “African” under father's race, “Colored” or “Negro” would have been used in 1961.
12. The type for “Caucasian” is too perfect, not possible for a typewriter from 1961.
13. No footprint.
14. No birth weight.
15. Signature of mother and attendant are too similar.
16. Under hour of birth, the “M.” in “P.M.” is a different font.
17. Address for Obama's childhood home is the middle of a highway.
18. Hawaii's Governor until recently claimed there was no birth certificate.
19. Obviously Photoshopped. Layers!
20. We all know his real name is Barry Saetoro [Soetoro] and he changed his name to Barack Obama after visiting Pakistan.



Hey it's that old liberal saying "if you got nothing to hide"... right? Why doesn't he just let it go to court instead of paying lawyers to keep this issue out of the reach of jurisprudence and application of law.Did you know that the truthers have an equally long list of ways two airplanes couldn't have taken down WTC 1, 2 and 7 all by themselves?

And if you read it, you'd probably laugh as hard as a rational person reading your list would laugh. I especially like #20, where Barack Obama Sr. named his son Barry Saetoro at birth (apparently as a nod to the man whom his wife would hook up with a few years later). :rofl: A fitting punch line for a joke that was about 17 lines too long.

There's a certified, paper certificate (notice the similarity between those two words) showing his place of birth. Where is the evidence to even suggest he was born elsewhere? Nobody has presented a shred.

Gundude
04-16-2012, 23:06
Gundude
Which someone in the White House scanned into a computer and made the changes seen in the one posted on the Official White House web site! There fore commiting a felony! Using a Government computer to generate a frudulant document is a FELONY!
This means Obama knew this was done! He made a public announcement to the fact!
I don't remember him stating at anytime that he didn't know it was posted by his request on the White House web site? So he knowing allowed the felony to be commited. Gee I think we have all we need for impeachment now!:steamed:The minute you scan a paper document into a computer and convert it to a digital file, you've already made changes to it. After that it's just a matter of degree. There's no doubt the one they posted for the public was overprocessed, but that doesn't automatically make it fraudulent, nor criminal.

Javelin
04-16-2012, 23:14
Did you know that the truthers have an equally long list of ways two airplanes couldn't have taken down WTC 1, 2 and 7 all by themselves?

And if you read it, you'd probably laugh as hard as a rational person reading your list would laugh. I especially like #20, where Barack Obama Sr. named his son Barry Saetoro at birth (apparently as a nod to the man whom his wife would hook up with a few years later). :rofl: A fitting punch line for a joke that was about 17 lines too long.

There's a certified, paper certificate (notice the similarity between those two words) showing his place of birth. Where is the evidence to even suggest he was born elsewhere? Nobody has presented a shred.

Did you know... that WTC1, 2, and 7 are all off topic? Let's talk about Zero's BC.

Suggesting he was born elsewhere is his own Grandmother who said he was born in Kenya and was a beautiful Kenya baby. But she mysteriously died shortly after saying that.

Javelin
04-16-2012, 23:15
I swear most of you mother ****ers that post on the internet never read anything more than your porn sites and maybe Yahoo! news before logging into GT Lounge.

Gundude
04-16-2012, 23:26
Did you know... that WTC1, 2, and 7 are all off topic?Not really. Birthers and truthers exhibit practically identical behavior.

Suggesting he was born elsewhere is his own Grandmother who said he was born in Kenya and was a beautiful Kenya baby. But she mysteriously died shortly after saying that.And George Zimmerman said "He looks suspicious. He looks black". You'll find plenty of people who still believe that, even though the full extent of what he said has been widely reported. Why do they still believe that, in spite of the fact that it was very publicly debunked? Why do you think?

Or is that off-topic too?

marchboom
04-16-2012, 23:29
The minute you scan a paper document into a computer and convert it to a digital file, you've already made changes to it. After that it's just a matter of degree. There's no doubt the one they posted for the public was overprocessed, but that doesn't automatically make it fraudulent, nor criminal.

If that scanned document is presented as a real document with the intent to convince someone that the document's contents are authentic, that is forgery, at the very least.

But everything connected to this POS president is corrupt.

Let's see, what's the latest now: The Secret Service scandal under the obama administration, the GSA scandal under the obama administration, Fast and Furious under the obama administration, the money laundering Solyndra scandal under the obama administration, etc, etc.

Let me know when you want me to stop.

Yep, time to look into impeachment proceedings.

Gundude
04-16-2012, 23:32
Interpretinmg the rantings of an idiot trying to comprehend law, in that article - I'm guessing the author means she argued the "best evidence rule". It has nothing to do with whether a genuine birth certificate exists - it just says that if you are going to argue about the contents of Obama's birth certificate, you have to use the original, not the computer generated summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_evidence_rule

It may be a forgery, but every time a "birther" writes some BS like that, it is used to discredit the whole idea.
And then from left field that whole thing about the BC being a "satire," not even meant to be taken seriously. I'm surprised he even had the balls to reference the original story (although, quite tellingly, it wasn't a live link), given how utterly he misrepresented it.

That article must've been his audition piece for a job at WND or something.

callihan_44
04-17-2012, 06:07
No. It was a certified paper copy.
the article you linked to does not show it, just because they said they presented it doesnt mean squat...example> why would you fake a document if you had the real thing? I personally dont think anyone has the guts to do anything if they proved he is a fraud anyway.

marchboom
04-17-2012, 08:30
the article you linked to does not show it, just because they said they presented it doesnt mean squat...example> why would you fake a document if you had the real thing? I personally dont think anyone has the guts to do anything if they proved he is a fraud anyway.

Yep, God forbid there be any charges brought up against a black man. That would be racist and the jesse and al show would come to town.

Gundude
04-17-2012, 08:35
the article you linked to does not show it, just because they said they presented it doesnt mean squat...example> why would you fake a document if you had the real thing? I personally dont think anyone has the guts to do anything if they proved he is a fraud anyway.It wasn't an article, it was a press release by the government of Hawaii. When the government of Hawaii certifies a copy of a Hawaii BC, while at the same time saying that the BC shows Obama was born in Hawaii, it makes that BC actual evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

You can't show a piece of paper on the Internet without scanning it into a computer and converting it to a standard image format. The result is the layered document you see on the White House website. Whether they just did a clumsy job of it or manually altered it in some way doesn't change the fact that the original document was certified and delivered.

There is still not a shred of evidence put forth that he wasn't born in Hawaii.

windplex
04-17-2012, 08:40
i suspect that this issue will not get traction among the average voter let alone left leaning voters.

i fear that staying on this issue will do more harm than good in the short run and aid the president being re-elected.

aircarver
04-17-2012, 08:52
...., it makes that BC actual evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii...

Afraid not Hawaii is known to have issued BCs to foreign born people.

.

SunGunner
04-17-2012, 09:01
@ Gundude, when you scan a document it creates only 1 layer, it would never create separate layers for different areas such as stamps and dates.

Gundude
04-17-2012, 09:04
Afraid not Hawaii is known to have issued BCs to foreign born people.

.But not BCs which show Hawaii as their birthplace.

From the press release:State officials of both parties have verified that President Obama‟s birth records show that he was born in Honolulu.

Since we can only see scanned copies on the Internet, whose word would you take, out of the people who saw the original piece of paper, that it shows Obama was born in Hawaii? You can't see that original piece of paper for yourself. I'm pretty sure FedEx'ing a certified copy to every American citizen is impractical. So what will it take for you to believe it says what it says?

Gundude
04-17-2012, 09:05
@ Gundude, when you scan a document it creates only 1 layer, it would never create separate layers for different areas such as stamps and dates.Not true at all. It would depend on the settings of the software you're using to scan.

callihan_44
04-17-2012, 09:06
It wasn't an article, it was a press release by the government of Hawaii. When the government of Hawaii certifies a copy of a Hawaii BC, while at the same time saying that the BC shows Obama was born in Hawaii, it makes that BC actual evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

You can't show a piece of paper on the Internet without scanning it into a computer and converting it to a standard image format. The result is the layered document you see on the White House website. Whether they just did a clumsy job of it or manually altered it in some way doesn't change the fact that the original document was certified and delivered.

There is still not a shred of evidence put forth that he wasn't born in Hawaii.

when you scan a document it doesnt have multiple layers, as far as i can tell there is not a shred of evidence he was born there...

Gundude
04-17-2012, 09:11
when you scan a document it doesnt have multiple layers, as far as i can tell there is not a shred of evidence he was born there...It can. Many advanced imaging programs try to "see" what it is they're scanning in order to make a more useful document as opposed to an opaque bucket of bits. This is the 21st century you know.

The evidence that he was born here is as strong as that of anybody else who has a Hawaii BC showing a Hawaii place of birth.

callihan_44
04-17-2012, 09:15
It can. Many advanced imaging programs try to "see" what it is they're scanning in order to make a more useful document as opposed to an opaque bucket of bits. This is the 21st century you know.

I watched the investigation videos and they scanned many documents including birth certificates, they showed one layer using a variety of different machines.

Gundude
04-17-2012, 09:23
I watched the investigation videos and they scanned many documents including birth certificates, they showed one layer using a variety of different machines.Yeah I watched them too. Did you miss my post where I prove Obama's "dog" isn't real? I did it by choosing a dog as my "control dog" which didn't look anything like Obama's "dog", and therefore concluded Obama's "dog" isn't really a dog. There are hundreds of scanning programs and literally millions of different permutations of settings which control how they work. You can't just select a tiny sample of them and conclude that therefore everything else will turn out the same. The methods the investigators used in those videos aren't scientifically sound. They are not real investigators. They are "volunteers."

kirgi08
04-17-2012, 09:41
Democrats would elect Joseph Stalin if he promised to give them what they wanted.....just as an illegal in the white house means nothing to them.

They did,he's just trying for 4 more years.'08.

series1811
04-17-2012, 10:37
How do they know that? Has anybody ever presented evidence suggesting that?

How about trying using common sense, instead of Obama Love, when looking at what we do know?

If you can ever take off the OL glasses, you have to admit that everything about Obama and his background, stinks.

You don't fight as hard as Obama has fought all of these lawsuits to stay out of the fact finding phase (discovery), without a logical and rational reason. Discovery is what wins your case for you when you are in the right. It is what sinks your case when you are in the wrong.

So all you have to do in these lawsuits, (or in any court case really), is see who is trying to move it forward, and who is trying to keep it from moving forward to know which side would most likely prevail at the ultimate fact finding conclusion (trial).

aircarver
04-17-2012, 10:54
... So all you have to do in these lawsuits, (or in any court case really), is see who is trying to move it forward, and who is trying to keep it from moving forward to know which side would most likely prevail at the ultimate fact finding conclusion (trial).

...Except in Orwell-land, where so many Obama-matrons live ... :upeyes:

.

windplex
04-17-2012, 10:56
im 54 so not much older than BO. the state lost my original BC. it was very discolored by time but legible and had a raised seal.

it was easy to get replacements from the birth hosbital and they had a raised seal.

aircarver
04-17-2012, 11:02
.... it was easy to get replacements from the birth hosbital and they had a raised seal.

NOT ..... if you were never there ......:whistling:

.

callihan_44
04-17-2012, 11:07
Yeah I watched them too. Did you miss my post where I prove Obama's "dog" isn't real? I did it by choosing a dog as my "control dog" which didn't look anything like Obama's "dog", and therefore concluded Obama's "dog" isn't really a dog. There are hundreds of scanning programs and literally millions of different permutations of settings which control how they work. You can't just select a tiny sample of them and conclude that therefore everything else will turn out the same. The methods the investigators used in those videos aren't scientifically sound. They are not real investigators. They are "volunteers."

the investigators they used had MANY YEARS of experience in law enforcement. How in the hell are they not "real" investigators? They also used graphics specialist to analyze the scan...

windplex
04-17-2012, 11:18
NOT ..... if you were never there ......:whistling:

.

silly me:wavey:

windplex
04-17-2012, 11:19
deleted

series1811
04-17-2012, 11:38
Yeah I watched them too. Did you miss my post where I prove Obama's "dog" isn't real? I did it by choosing a dog as my "control dog" which didn't look anything like Obama's "dog", and therefore concluded Obama's "dog" isn't really a dog. There are hundreds of scanning programs and literally millions of different permutations of settings which control how they work. You can't just select a tiny sample of them and conclude that therefore everything else will turn out the same. The methods the investigators used in those videos aren't scientifically sound. They are not real investigators. They are "volunteers."

Here is the problem. You don't know anything about investigatons, so when you start trying to explain why the investigations are not valid, it kind of falls flat.

aircarver
04-17-2012, 11:57
Here is the problem. You don't know anything about investigatons, so when you start trying to explain why the investigations are not valid, it kind of falls flat.

Yeah....

Years of experience don't mean anything ....:upeyes:

'Proper ideology' is everything ...................:rofl:

/

Gundude
04-17-2012, 16:04
Here is the problem. You don't know anything about investigatons, so when you start trying to explain why the investigations are not valid, it kind of falls flat.I actually watched the videos. The conclusions they reached weren't supported by the evidence they showed. Anybody can see that for themselves.

Gundude
04-17-2012, 16:08
How about trying using common sense, instead of Obama Love, when looking at what we do know?What does common sense tell you about the fact that nobody, nobody in the media, even those in the media hostile to Obama, will jump on this "proof" of forgery?

Judge Napolitano? Rush Limbaugh? Glenn Beck? Are they all Obama Lovers?

Common sense? Anybody?

aircarver
04-17-2012, 16:23
Wow.

It sure is strange in Orwell world.... :upeyes:

.

series1811
04-17-2012, 18:09
I actually watched the videos. The conclusions they reached weren't supported by the evidence they showed. Anybody can see that for themselves.

You watched the videos? God save us from the MTV generation.

series1811
04-17-2012, 18:12
What does common sense tell you about the fact that nobody, nobody in the media, even those in the media hostile to Obama, will jump on this "proof" of forgery?

Judge Napolitano? Rush Limbaugh? Glenn Beck? Are they all Obama Lovers?

Common sense? Anybody?

That's what you see through OL glasses? No wonder you think like you do?

It's good to see posts from people like you when I ask myself how this country could have ever produced enough morons to put somebody like Obama in office.

You and the other Truth Squaders show me.

Gundude
04-17-2012, 18:20
That's what you see through OL glasses? No wonder you think like you do?

It's good to see posts from people like you when I ask myself how this country could have ever produced enough morons to put somebody like Obama in office.

You and the other Truth Squaders show me.So Napolitano, Limbaugh, and Beck are all over this then? Hammering in to their massive combined audience that the Obama BC is indeed fake and Obama was born in Kenya?

SunGunner
04-17-2012, 19:11
@GunDude, please scan a document and post it on here that has selectable layers and not a single layer.

If they are simply scanning a document to post online why would they not just throw it in and hit .pdf and start?

Gunnut 45/454
04-17-2012, 19:25
Gundude
And if they wanted to be sure it was an exact copy they could have photographed it and posted the picture- ensuring there was no tampering ! And it's obvious you have ZERO experience with PDF files! It wasn't a simple scan of the document they converted it to a pdf file and changed the content of the document. If you actually have a pdf reader on your computer -download the file and you can see every edit /change they made. If you have special software- like they do in Law enforcement you can find the exact computer used and who was logged on to that computer and when it was done. And yes if they want to they can find out exactly who did it as ALL GOVERNMENT COMPUTERS have to be logged onto with a password. It is a felony to destroy the records of such activaty, and or that computer.

MZBKA
04-17-2012, 19:34
Did you know... that WTC1, 2, and 7 are all off topic? Let's talk about Zero's BC.

Suggesting he was born elsewhere is his own Grandmother who said he was born in Kenya and was a beautiful Kenya baby. But she mysteriously died shortly after saying that.

Obama's grandmother never said that. Facts don't matter much to birthers though.

steveksux
04-17-2012, 19:54
So Napolitano, Limbaugh, and Beck are all over this then? Hammering in to their massive combined audience that the Obama BC is indeed fake and Obama was born in Kenya?And the GOP officials in Hawaii who looked at the BC and proclaimed Obama was born in Hawaii. And Fox News who posted a story explaining how multiple layered documents from scanners is rather common on new scanners that do character recognition. Might as well add the entire GOP establishment who would rather lose the Presidential election than take off their Obama Love glasses.. :rofl: Its a wide, far flung conspiracy all right.

Just don't call it a conspiracy theory though..

Randy

Gundude
04-17-2012, 22:51
@GunDude, please scan a document and post it on here that has selectable layers and not a single layer.

If they are simply scanning a document to post online why would they not just throw it in and hit .pdf and start?Here you go. It was in my mailbox this morning. You might be able to print it out and get a free car wash if you come to Reno...

All I did was open Acrobat, click "Create PDF from Scanner" (the "Make Searchable (Run OCR) option is checked by default on my machine, but if you're trying this at home, you'll need to check the box if it isn't), then once it's scanned "Document->Optimize Scanned PDF" (with all the default options) and save it. That last step decreased the file size by 78%, in case you were wondering why somebody would do that. It's something somebody would do, for instance, if they were putting the document up on the Internet for download. :whistling:

Gundude
04-17-2012, 22:59
Gundude
And if they wanted to be sure it was an exact copy they could have photographed it and posted the picture- ensuring there was no tampering ! And it's obvious you have ZERO experience with PDF files! It wasn't a simple scan of the document they converted it to a pdf file and changed the content of the document. If you actually have a pdf reader on your computer -download the file and you can see every edit /change they made. If you have special software- like they do in Law enforcement you can find the exact computer used and who was logged on to that computer and when it was done. And yes if they want to they can find out exactly who did it as ALL GOVERNMENT COMPUTERS have to be logged onto with a password. It is a felony to destroy the records of such activaty, and or that computer.
Yes, it'll show you the edits made, but it doesn't mean they were made manually. The software does a lot of editing on its own. All of this stuff has already been hashed out. Anybody with Adobe Acrobat and Illustrator can try it out for themselves.

The reason Limbaugh, Napolitano, and Beck don't touch this is because they actually have a financial stake in their credibility, unlike the quasi-anonymous bloggers who can spout off the dumbest stuff 'cuz they have nothing to lose and technologically illiterate, logically bereft law enforcement hangers-on who seek 15 minutes of fame. Limbaugh and Co have a research staff that can figure out how to use Acrobat and Illustrator and try it for themselves. Even though they push the limits of credibility sometimes, they know how to refrain from making complete idiots of themselves.

Hyksos
04-18-2012, 05:46
Interpreting the rantings of an idiot trying to comprehend law, in that article - I'm guessing the author means she argued the "best evidence rule". It has nothing to do with whether a genuine birth certificate exists - it just says that if you are going to argue about the contents of Obama's birth certificate, you have to use the original, not the computer generated summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_evidence_rule

It may be a forgery, but every time a "birther" writes some BS like that, it is used to discredit the whole idea.

Considering that the original is unobtainable, wouldn't the best evidence rule admit the PDF? I hate the name of that rule, we were taught to think of it as the "original document rule." Just because something is the original doesn't make it the "best" evidence.

From the wiki

The general rule is that secondary evidence, such as a copy or facsimile, will be not admissible if an original document exists, and is not unavailable due to destruction or other circumstances indicating unavailability.

Didn't Hawaii lose the original? They claim it doesn't exist anymore I thought. Even if Obama had it, if he refuses to produce it then I would imagine the PDF would be admissible. No?

aircarver
04-18-2012, 05:57
Considering that the original is unobtainable, wouldn't the best evidence rule admit the PDF? I hate the name of that rule, we were taught to think of it as the "original document rule." Just because something is the original doesn't make it the "best" evidence.

From the wiki



Didn't Hawaii lose the original? They claim it doesn't exist anymore I thought. Even if Obama had it, if he refuses to produce it then I would imagine the PDF would be admissible. No?
People should be allowed to make up their own 'vital documents' ? ..... :headscratch:

Gundude
04-18-2012, 08:27
Didn't Hawaii lose the original? They claim it doesn't exist anymore I thought.Nope. This was a claim made and recanted by a journalist. No spokesman or official in the state of Hawaii ever said this.

Hyksos
04-18-2012, 09:43
People should be allowed to make up their own 'vital documents' ? ..... :headscratch:

The PDF isn't a "made up" document. It's supposedly a scanned copy of the original that was put into PDF form. Why PDF? I don't know. They could have sent out a .JPG also. My point is that the birth certificate online (the PDF) has been held out to the world as an exact copy of Obama's Birth Certificate. Why would this not qualify as a "copy or facsimile?"

If the original IS available, then a simple subpoena should have done the trick.

windplex
04-18-2012, 10:03
duplicate

Gundude
04-18-2012, 10:06
The PDF isn't a "made up" document. It's supposedly a scanned copy of the original that was put into PDF form. Why PDF? I don't know. They could have sent out a .JPG also. My point is that the birth certificate online (the PDF) has been held out to the world as an exact copy of Obama's Birth Certificate. Why would this not qualify as a "copy or facsimile?"

If the original IS available, then a simple subpoena should have done the trick.Why a subpoena? Obama is applying to be on the ballot. If he doesn't voluntarily supply the document, why would they need to supoena it, instead of just saying "no document, no ballot"?

Gundude
04-18-2012, 10:08
everyone knows birth certificates are not valid to any authority and especially the .gov without the raised seal. not only does the "copy" lack a raised seal it shows no evidence of the "original: having a raised seal.Duh, the whole point of a raised seal is that it can't be copied.

windplex
04-18-2012, 10:48
duplicate

Gundude
04-18-2012, 11:17
are you suggesting that a raised seal when copied will show zero evidence of the original having a raised seal?It's entirely possible, yes, and even likely in a digital scan which is set to reduce "noise" (as most are).

ETA: Gunnut was partially correct. The best thing they could have done to ensure that the BC looked like it does when you're looking at it with your own eyes is to photograph it. Not because it ensures it wasn't tampered with (the photo can still be tampered with), but because scanners don't look at things anywhere close to the same way your eyes do (which is why you'll see the word VOID magically appear when you try to scan or copy checks). Cameras are a lot closer

You need to remember though: this is government. I'm sure they have a "process" which must be followed when scanning and posting documents, and I'm sure that process is the same for Obama's BC as it is for today's lunch menu.

aircarver
04-18-2012, 11:31
The PDF isn't a "made up" document. It's supposedly a scanned copy of the original that was put into PDF form. Why PDF? I don't know. They could have sent out a .JPG also. My point is that the birth certificate online (the PDF) has been held out to the world as an exact copy of Obama's Birth Certificate. Why would this not qualify as a "copy or facsimile?"

If the original IS available, then a simple subpoena should have done the trick.

The PDF was made up of data taken from different sources (stamp, typewriter, computer) and put together like a newspaper clipping ransom note.

.

Gundude
04-18-2012, 11:38
The PDF was made up of data taken from different sources (stamp, typewriter, computer) and put together like a newspaper clipping ransom note.

.At the height of the wingnuttery following the 9/11 attacks, Popular Mechanics published a report which addressed one by one the idiotic claims made by the truthers. They were meticulously debunked using sound science and logic.

Did that stop the truthers from repeating the exact same claims, as if the report never existed? Nope.

Did the truthers ever accomplish a single thing to expose the "real story" behind 9/11? Nope.

You can decide for yourself whether this post is relevant to this thread.

aircarver
04-18-2012, 11:40
You can decide for yourself whether this post is relavent to this thread.

Yep !

.

SunGunner
04-18-2012, 18:08
Gundude then why is Bummers BC not searchable if that is what they did?

Gunnut 45/454
04-18-2012, 18:50
Gundude
BS it doesn't add text where there was no text! It doesn't change the font! Your head is so far up your ass you can't see any light! And it doesn't allow you to move/copy text with in the original document! Two which all the edits that were done to the BC posted by the White House allow cause they were added to the original document! I suggest you go review the Sheriff Arpiro video which was posted here and the very indepth investigation of the BC. They go step by step on how the BC was changed. Or better yet go to your DNC friends and ask them how they did it!

MZBKA
04-18-2012, 18:50
everyone knows birth certificates are not valid to any authority and especially the .gov without the raised seal. not only does the "copy" lack a raised seal it shows no evidence of the "original: having a raised seal.

there are many other abberations that others have gotten into.

Factcheck.org has photos of the BC that show the raised seal. Not that facts matter to the birthers...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Gunnut 45/454
04-18-2012, 20:37
MZBKA
And you know very well that one they originally posted was the freaking "short form BC"!! Why are you Obamite's so dishonest! Why don't you ask your savoir to actually post the real LFBC for all to see? While your at it get him to release his college records? Maybe find the missing records of when Mama Obama actually came back from Kenya? Oh thats right those records are gone -destroyed! Conveintly!

Gundude
04-18-2012, 21:17
Gundude then why is Bummers BC not searchable if that is what they did?Because the document they scanned was different than the one I scanned, as were their OCR settings (the checkbox just turns it on, you can adjust the sensitivity and accuracy of it in tons of ways). I was just showing how Acrobat automatically creates the same type of layers you're seeing in the BC, without any sinister intent required.

Bottom line is the birthers will never believe Obama was born in Hawaii any more than truthers will believe 9/11 was carried out by a small group of muslims. They are far too emotionally invested in the fantasy. Rational people though, who visit this topic out of curiousity, will see the rational explanations and make their judgements accordingly.

Gundude
04-18-2012, 21:29
MZBKA
And you know very well that one they originally posted was the freaking "short form BC"!! Why are you Obamite's so dishonest! Why don't you ask your savoir to actually post the real LFBC for all to see? While your at it get him to release his college records? Maybe find the missing records of when Mama Obama actually came back from Kenya? Oh thats right those records are gone -destroyed! Conveintly!There would be a higher chance of him releasing his college records if the people demanding he do it weren't the same ranting lunatics who have repeatedly demonstrated they aren't actually interested in seeing the documents, only in making up an entirely different (and wholly unsupported) narrative of what they would say if only he didn't forge them all.

There are legitimate reasons for rational people to want to see his college records, as well as other things about his background. Unfortuntely, those rational voices are drowned out by the cacaphony of stooges who only serve to ensure that Obama can avoid any disclosure he desires simply by suggesting a link between the person demanding the information and birthers.

Useful idiots, every last one of them.

aircarver
04-19-2012, 06:23
Only a few lefties here buy all this Orwell speak ......:upeyes:

.

MZBKA
04-19-2012, 08:43
MZBKA
And you know very well that one they originally posted was the freaking "short form BC"!! Why are you Obamite's so dishonest! Why don't you ask your savoir to actually post the real LFBC for all to see? While your at it get him to release his college records? Maybe find the missing records of when Mama Obama actually came back from Kenya? Oh thats right those records are gone -destroyed! Conveintly!

The "freaking" short form is the birth certificate that is used to prove that one was born in the United States for any other purpose.

Obama has already released more proof that he was born in the United States than any other president. I'd rather concentrate on the damage his policies are doing to the economy.

By the way, we've been waiting for months for you to show us where the Constitution defines "natural born citizen." You told me a while ago that the definition is right there in the Constitution, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Could you, Herr Constitutional Expert, cite the section? :rofl:

windplex
04-19-2012, 08:59
duplicate

windplex
04-19-2012, 09:01
deleted

Gundude
04-19-2012, 09:22
do you find that there is no reasonable reason to question the validity at this point in time? At this point in time, no there isn't. The questions about his birth have been asked and answered, with evidence surpassing what would be deemed acceptable by reasonable people, with ZERO evidence presented which suggests the contrary.

There are many other questions about his past that are reasonable to question. This particular question only serves as a distraction to those, unfortunately appearing to lessen the reasonableness of the others. Guilt by association.

Do you believe that there has never been any question a reasonable man would ponder about the validity of the BC?There have been questions, and they have been answered. It's not the PDF image on the Internet that proves his birthplace. It's the fact that the government entity that certified his BC stated that it shows he was born in Hawaii. If you don't accept that as evidence, you will never accept anything, because a piece of paper can be manufactured to say anything you want. It's the certification that makes it evidence.

windplex
04-19-2012, 10:07
...This particular question only serves as a distraction to those, unfortunately appearing to lessen the reasonableness of the others. Guilt by association.

....

thank you for your answers!

i do fear this issue will do more harm than good for the purpose of replacing the president.

aircarver
04-19-2012, 10:12
The issue won't be in time for the throwing out of the squatter.

Now it's about proving he was never 'President' and reversing all the 'fruit of the poisonous tree' that he has done.

Including his leftist Supreme Court packs.

.

series1811
04-19-2012, 13:53
At the height of the wingnuttery following the 9/11 attacks, Popular Mechanics published a report which addressed one by one the idiotic claims made by the truthers. They were meticulously debunked using sound science and logic.

Did that stop the truthers from repeating the exact same claims, as if the report never existed? Nope.

Did the truthers ever accomplish a single thing to expose the "real story" behind 9/11? Nope.

You can decide for yourself whether this post is relevant to this thread.

That's what your argument is reduced to?

And, you Obama lovers wonder why this issue won't die? Amazing.

See, what common sense tells "birthers" like me, is people don't fight to keep from revealing things that they don't think will hurt them. That's not from watching TV, watching murder mysteries, or getting schooled by the internet. It's from catching people doing things they don't want to be caught at, and from making people admit to things they don't want to admit to, for a pretty long time now.

Obama's and your arguments work well on the kinds of people who voted for him in the first place. You will have to learn to settle for that.