Michigan government unleashes armed raids on small pig farmers. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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G17Jake
04-17-2012, 06:11
http://www.naturalnews.com/035585_Michigan_farms_raids.html

The raids involved six vehicles and ten armed men.


I can't help but think of barbedwiresmile when stories like this are in the news.

certifiedfunds
04-17-2012, 07:34
I'm speechless but didn't want you to think no one took notice.

Sam Spade
04-17-2012, 07:35
Any time I see "Special thanks to Alex Jones..." in an article, I'll wait a bit before boarding the train. Thanks, anyway.

barbedwiresmile
04-17-2012, 09:01
As many of you who follow such stories know, raids like this on independent farmers and private citizens are growing more common. Look for more of this.

I have no doubt they are in fact in violation of some "law", statute or regulation --- laws that are lobbied for and won by enormous industrial food and agribusiness corporations who wield vastly disproportionate influence (to put it mildly) on the state. The result is the state's monopoly on force is directed by these interests to protect their collective monopoly on food production and create barriers to entry or competition. The small holder is in the crosshairs. Not because self-sufficiency is the ultimate form of resistance to the collectivist, centralizing forces of modern political economy - nothing so noble - merely because centralized political/economic interests will not tolerate competition when they effectively control the levers of state and creation of "law" (which is to say, force).

Flintlocker
04-17-2012, 16:07
Well, I guess that's what you get when you elect a Republican 'pro-business' governor. I also found this tidbit:

"Of course, Gov. Rick Snyder is a strong, pro-business leader. Stokes is the first DNR director to be appointed by a sitting governor. DNR directors used to be appointed by the Natural Resources Commission, themselves gubernatorial appointees on staggered terms. The system somewhat de-politicized natural resource decisions."

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index.ssf/2012/03/should_dnr_be_tweeting_ads_for.html

Ruble Noon
04-17-2012, 18:09
WTF? Here Michigan was all worried about the militia.

BORNGEARHEAD
04-17-2012, 19:42
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/11543-mich-state-agents-raid-pig-farms-to-kill-so-called-qinvasive-speciesq


"The new ISO now defines all open-range pigs raised on small family farms as illegal “invasive species,” and all farmers who raise them as felons."

WTF?!

barbedwiresmile
04-17-2012, 19:59
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/11543-mich-state-agents-raid-pig-farms-to-kill-so-called-qinvasive-speciesq


"The new ISO now defines all open-range pigs raised on small family farms as illegal “invasive species,” and all farmers who raise them as felons."

WTF?!

I wonder why smallholders would be marginalized [ETA: if not criminalized] while agribusiness enjoys favored status within the tax and regulatory regimes?

Eat up, America. You're poisoning yourselves with diseased animals and corn derivatives.

steveksux
04-17-2012, 20:01
Something seems to be odd about a farmer crying about having to kill his pigs in cold blood.... rather than raise them for hunting preserves or to be sold to butcher shops for meat. I'm thinking he's more worried about the loss of revenue rather than compassion for the hogs.

No mention of how these pigs are escaping into the wild and raising hell.

Randy

juggy4711
04-17-2012, 22:52
...
I have no doubt they are in fact in violation of some "law", statute or regulation --- laws that are lobbied for and won by enormous industrial food and agribusiness corporations who wield vastly disproportionate influence (to put it mildly) on the state. The result is the state's monopoly on force is directed by these interests to protect their collective monopoly on food production and create barriers to entry or competition. The small holder is in the crosshairs. Not because self-sufficiency is the ultimate form of resistance to the collectivist, centralizing forces of modern political economy - nothing so noble - merely because centralized political/economic interests will not tolerate competition when they effectively control the levers of state and creation of "law" (which is to say, force).

And thanks to folks like Sam, the government has the goons needed to enforce such BS. It's not that I have disrespect for LEOs, I understand their need and their place in modern society; it's that too many of them are willing to enforce the law because it is the law rather than because it is the right thing to do.

Some could never be LEO because of the risk one must take in life, I could never be an LEO because of the BS I would be expected to enforce.

juggy4711
04-17-2012, 22:58
Something seems to be odd about a farmer crying about having to kill his pigs in cold blood.... rather than raise them for hunting preserves or to be sold to butcher shops for meat. I'm thinking he's more worried about the loss of revenue rather than compassion for the hogs.

No mention of how these pigs are escaping into the wild and raising hell.

Randy

Pigs are not native to North America that is true. Since some are escaping and causing hell let's get rid of them all. No private or corporate pig farms should be allowed. In fact pig products should not be allowed to be sold in the US because of that. No more bacon, ham, porkchops etc... We will all be better off.

DocCasualty
04-17-2012, 23:18
Can anyone clarify what the issue is here? Are these Russian wild boars or what? Even so, has raising them become illegal in MI? I understand what an issue feral pigs have become throughout the US, but I'm not understanding what exactly transpired in these two cases, both fairly close to where I live.
-------

edit: Ok, so I went through some of the links in the article. It appears the State is trying to be institute measures to curb the feral pig issue. I guess I need to learn more about the issue, though I'd be willing to give a wide berth to contain a problem that is out of control in so many other places in the country.

rgregoryb
04-18-2012, 07:30
Pigs are not native to North America that is true. Since some are escaping and causing hell let's get rid of them all. No private or corporate pig farms should be allowed. In fact pig products should not be allowed to be sold in the US because of that. No more bacon, ham, porkchops etc... We will all be better off.

hmmmmm, sounds like a muslim conspiracy................:supergrin:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj183/poconopat/MY%20WHACKY%20SIDE/mod-muslim-mag-10-2.jpg

DocCasualty
04-19-2012, 20:55
http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12145_55230-276322--,00.html

False Rumors About Feral Swine Enforcement - Setting the Record Straight False rumors are circulating about the manner in which the Michigan Department of Natural Resources is enforcing a 2010 Invasive Species Order declaring a certain species of swine prohibited in Michigan.
We'd like to set the record straight.
There have been no raids on properties. Since April 1, when active enforcement of the order began, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources has conducted inspections on game ranches and breeding facilities throughout Michigan. These facilities have in the past have been known to possess prohibited swine. The inspections are conducted by trained Wildlife personnel and conservation officers. The vast majority of these inspections have been conducted with the consent of property owners.
The DNR has not violated anyone's constitutional rights. The DNR has followed the law, the Michigan Constitution and United States Constitution in all its enforcement actions. Every inspection starts with a request for voluntary access to inspect the facility. If access is not voluntarily granted, the DNR seeks a court-issued inspection warrant or a court order. The DNR has been denied access to property on two occasions. In one case, the DNR sought and received an administrative inspection warrant to legally search the Deer Tracks Ranch in Fife Lake, Michigan. No prohibited swine were found at that property. In the other case, the DNR initiated a civil complaint against the Renegade Ranch Hunting Preserve in Cheboygan County, Michigan. DNR obtained a temporary restraining order from the court that provided access to the property to conduct an inspection. That litigation is ongoing.
The DNR has not arrested anybody in enforcing the order. The DNR will continue to work with property owners on a voluntary basis wherever possible.
The DNR has killed no swine in enforcing the order. To date, the DNR has inspected only hunting ranches and breeding facilities that supply swine to hunting ranches. These animals are typically possessed and raised to be hunted. Property owners have had 15 months since the Invasive Species Order was first put in place to plan for complying with the order. The DNR sought throughout that period to work with property owners who had prohibited swine, and even found out-of-state buyers for some prohibited swine. Property owners who have killed prohibited swine did so by their own choice and as an alternative to selling their animals prior to the April 1 enforcement deadline.
The Invasive Species Order is not an attack on farms. In fact, the order is intended to protect Michigan farms. The animals at issue are not traditional farm pigs. The Invasive Species Order prohibits a particular species, Sus scrofa Linnaeus, commonly known as Russian boars, Eurasian wild boars, or razorbacks. This species is the terrestrial equivalent of Asian carp. The swine are incredibly destructive omnivores that destroy wildlife habitat and carry diseases that threaten domestic hogs, other livestock, wildlife and people. The owners of heritage pigs are not affected unless they own a Russian boar or Eurasian wild boar or a hybrid of a Russian boar or Eurasian wild boar.
The Michigan Court of Appeals upheld the department's issuance of the Invasive Species Order one month before enforcement began. Further, the Court of Appeals ruled that the department was required to list this species as a prohibited species, pursuant to its statutory obligations under Part 413 of the Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act.
Michigan residents who have questions about whether their swine are prohibited under the Invasive Species Order may contact the department.
For more information about the Invasive Species Order and to learn about the problem of feral swine in Michigan and nationwide, go to www.michigan.gov/feralswine (http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_55230---,00.html).
Thank you for taking the time to learn the facts about this action.

RustyShackelford
04-19-2012, 21:11
That seems to clear it up, DocCasualty.

Sam Spade
04-19-2012, 21:13
And thanks to folks like Sam, the government has the goons needed...

Always warms the cockles of my heart to get called out on a GTPI thread.

Tell me, does "goon" rank above or below "nazi JBT" on your scale? Was this thread worth burning your bridges with me, citizen?

juggy4711
04-19-2012, 21:18
http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12145_55230-276322--,00.html
The swine are incredibly destructive omnivores that destroy wildlife habitat and carry diseases...

As are any pigs/pig family members not native and/or properly tended to in this country. If they want to be serious and fair about it outlaw all non-javelina members of the pig family in the US.

DocCasualty
04-19-2012, 21:22
As are any pigs/pig family members not native and/or properly tended to in this country. If they want to be serious and fair about it outlaw all non-javelina members of the pig family in the US.
Are all of them problematic? IDK, I'm just asking.

I don't know if the above quoted MDNR link tells the whole story, but it does provide some balance to what has been presented so far.

juggy4711
04-19-2012, 21:34
Always warms the cockles of my heart to get called out on a GTPI thread.

Tell me, does "goon" rank above or below "nazi JBT" on your scale? Was this thread worth burning your bridges with me, citizen?

My bridges were burned the minute you decided to become a cop and enforce the law because it was the law "officer". Don't get all high and mighty because you think you have some elevated place in society as LE. Name me a law in your jurisdiction that you refuse to enforce. If you can't my point stands.

If you can I will humbly apologize for being a d-bag and admit there is a someplace in the US that has at least has one officer that isn't a goon.

juggy4711
04-19-2012, 21:48
Are all of them problematic? IDK, I'm just asking.

I don't know if the above quoted MDNR link tells the whole story, but it does provide some balance to what has been presented so far.

Technically all non-javelina species of swine in the US are potentially problematic as javelinas are the only native species of the kind. Chickens are not native, hell they are not even a naturally occurring species, as what we think of as chickens were bred into existence by man from various forms of prairie birds. Are they problematic should they escape and run wild? Does that mean that the Federal government should be sticking it's nose into small chicken farms also? How is it that corporate farms don't seem to have this issue pig or foul? It certainly can not be that none escape into the wild and breed feral. Unless we are to assume corporate farms never have escapees.

It is nothing but an attempt to crush the little guy. And folks wonder why people want the government to reign in big business and implement socialist policies. It is the unethical application of capitalism that will bring about it's downfall. This nonsense is on par with illegal milk.

Sam Spade
04-19-2012, 21:50
My bridges were burned the minute you decided to become a cop and enforce the law because it was the law "officer". Don't get all high and mighty because you think you have some elevated place in society as LE. Name me a law in your jurisdiction that you refuse to enforce. If you can't my point stands.

If you can I will humbly apologize for being a d-bag and admit there is a someplace in the US that has at least has one officer that isn't a goon.

ARS 28-1075B, recast as 28-1595C. You are indeed a Dbag, your apology is not accepted, the bridge remains out.

DocCasualty
04-19-2012, 22:09
Technically all non-javelina species of swine in the US are potentially problematic as javelinas are the only native species of the kind. Chickens are not native, hell they are not even a naturally occurring species, as what we think of as chickens were bred into existence by man from various forms of prairie birds. Are they problematic should they escape and run wild? Does that mean that the Federal government should be sticking it's nose into small chicken farms also? How is it that corporate farms don't seem to have this issue pig or foul? It certainly can not be that none escape into the wild and breed feral. Unless we are to assume corporate farms never have escapees.

It is nothing but an attempt to crush the little guy. And folks wonder why people want the government to reign in big business and implement socialist policies. It is the unethical application of capitalism that will bring about it's downfall. This nonsense is on par with illegal milk.
Thanks for your input. BTW, how's that feral pig issue in TX working out? :whistling:

kirgi08
04-19-2012, 23:01
I'm speechless but didn't want you to think no one took notice.

You bloody well know better.

As many of you who follow such stories know, raids like this on independent farmers and private citizens are growing more common. Look for more of this.

I have no doubt they are in fact in violation of some "law", statute or regulation --- laws that are lobbied for and won by enormous industrial food and agribusiness corporations who wield vastly disproportionate influence (to put it mildly) on the state. The result is the state's monopoly on force is directed by these interests to protect their collective monopoly on food production and create barriers to entry or competition. The small holder is in the crosshairs. Not because self-sufficiency is the ultimate form of resistance to the collectivist, centralizing forces of modern political economy - nothing so noble - merely because centralized political/economic interests will not tolerate competition when they effectively control the levers of state and creation of "law" (which is to say, force).

You and I know well enough that .gub can't stand the idea that we don't need them.

I wonder why smallholders would be marginalized [ETA: if not criminalized] while agribusiness enjoys favored status within the tax and regulatory regimes?

Eat up, America. You're poisoning yourselves with diseased animals and corn derivatives.

We got it handled.


Folks it's coming,the raids on farms and folk that give away milk/eggs ect.'08.

barbedwiresmile
04-20-2012, 04:10
We have not violated anyone's Constitutional rights. We have enforced the law.



Well. That clears it up...

The very term "prohibited swine" would have made our grandfathers laugh and replace the sheriff (or run the boys from downstate out on a rail). Today such a term inspires us to waive the flag and support additional code (not to mention increased enforcement budgets.)

While this issue speaks to urban/rural divide I have written about in the past, as well as to the scope and scale of state more broadly, fundamentally it speaks to the reality of diminished returns and the natural trajectory of a democratic state: as time goes on the volume of code grows incrementally. Over a period of many decades, this growth becomes exponential. There is no stopping it - certainly neither of the political parties are serious about reducing the sheer volume of code (or it's enforcement expense). Budgets and staff grow in order to enforce all of the existent code, even as more code is added year over year. The event horizon is crossed when enough power has been transferred to bureaucratic agencies that the momentum of regulation and enforcement takes on a life of its own and becomes a part of our daily lives. We accept such vast regulatory, enforcement, and taxation regimes as "normal". Entire generations have grown up knowing nothing else (now true in both urban and rural communities).

And, of course, there is a zero-sum relationship between the volume of code and your liberty. Each new law, regulation, or tax is a restriction upon your freedom. It's just math.

But in modern America, we are ok with this. And so the tentacles of state continue their creep into all areas of our live. Each issue, such as the one in this thread, is viewed as a singularity. There is little pattern regulation. And Leviathan grows, unabated.

bobthellama42
04-20-2012, 06:03
Well. That clears it up...

The very term "prohibited swine" would have made our grandfathers laugh and replace the sheriff (or run the boys from downstate out on a rail).

:thumbsup:

certifiedfunds
04-20-2012, 06:12
You bloody well know better.





:dunno:

frank4570
04-20-2012, 06:50
I think I read this problem has to do with "free range", might be wrong about that.

Stubudd
04-20-2012, 07:08
While this issue speaks to urban/rural divide I have written about in the past, as well as to the scope and scale of state more broadly, fundamentally it speaks to the reality of diminished returns and the natural trajectory of a democratic state: as time goes on the volume of code grows incrementally. Over a period of many decades, this growth becomes exponential. There is no stopping it - certainly neither of the political parties are serious about reducing the sheer volume of code (or it's enforcement expense). Budgets and staff grow in order to enforce all of the existent code, even as more code is added year over year. The event horizon is crossed when enough power has been transferred to bureaucratic agencies that the momentum of regulation and enforcement takes on a life of its own and becomes a part of our daily lives. We accept such vast regulatory, enforcement, and taxation regimes as "normal". Entire generations have grown up knowing nothing else (now true in both urban and rural communities).

And, of course, there is a zero-sum relationship between the volume of code and your liberty. Each new law, regulation, or tax is a restriction upon your freedom. It's just math.

But in modern America, we are ok with this. And so the tentacles of state continue their creep into all areas of our live. Each issue, such as the one in this thread, is viewed as a singularity. There is little pattern regulation. And Leviathan grows, unabated.

nothing new under the sun

http://cronychronicles.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/MoreLawsCronyism.jpg

TactiCool
04-20-2012, 14:13
Any time I see "Special thanks to Alex Jones..." in an article, I'll wait a bit before boarding the train. Thanks, anyway.

:wavey:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/MDNR_DECLARATORY_RULING_2011-12-13_FINAL_371200_7.pdf

Skyhook
04-20-2012, 15:21
"There have been no raids on properties. Since April 1, when active enforcement of the order began, the Michigan Department of Natural Resources has conducted inspections on game ranches and breeding facilities throughout Michigan. These facilities have in the past have been known to possess prohibited swine."

Hey, this could be just about any Democrat Party get-together.

Gee, I sure hope these shooters know what they are about.

:shocked:

juggy4711
04-20-2012, 23:05
ARS 28-1075B, recast as 28-1595C. You are indeed a Dbag, your apology is not accepted, the bridge remains out.

You refuse to enforce a law that violates the 5th. I stand corrected and humbly apologize whether you accept it or not. I would simply encourage you to extend that unwillingness to other so called violations of the law that are none of your business, do not cause harm to others and which have nothing to do with right and wrong, rather the power of the state to control others lives as it sees fit.

I admit to being a Dbag in my vitriolic response but could not care less about your bridges. If you can live with yourself arresting someone for no other "crime" than being in possession, carrying a firearm, solicitation or other such violations, you're not a person I would want to have a bridge with.

Should I condemn someone to possible prison time for such offenses, Goon and Dbag would be terms I considered tame for what I really was.

kirgi08
04-20-2012, 23:17
:dunno:

We noticed,I see as much carp as you do.I just mind my manners on GT.:wavey:

barbedwiresmile
04-23-2012, 05:35
Business as usual.


http://lewrockwell.com/rep3/hogicide-in-michigan.html

Why are state officials trying to take that right away then? Baker says he believes the Michigan pork producers are behind it, and, maybe on a larger scale, the country’s federal farming agencies. “These are the guys that raise pigs in…confined animal feeding operations.” The farmer adds that he’s found the paperwork that publishes the names of supporters of the ISO, and it doesn’t come as a surprise to him to see who is lobbying for laws against small time hog farmers. There are names on there like Michigan Pork, Michigan Milk, Michigan Poultry and Michigan Potatoes. Also on the list, he says, is Greestone Farm Services.

“Those are the guys that supply the money,” he tells RT.

kirgi08
04-23-2012, 08:52
It's a dependance issue..Gov prefers addicts.'08.

BORNGEARHEAD
04-29-2012, 17:06
Ted Nugent touches on this @ 6:15.

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/04/26/watch-ted-nugent-tells-the-full-story/

RWBlue
04-29-2012, 18:33
You have to be careful and suspicious of anyone who has 10 or more pigs.

Jim in MI
04-30-2012, 17:09
I thought this was about the guys that turned hogs loose on their property and had people pay to hunt them.

MI decided that they would close these operations down as the powers that be state the hogs that escaped fueled the feral pig problem.

The hunting crews were given notice quite some time ago that they were going to be shut down.

As Nugent has his Sunrize Acres ranch in Jackson I'm sure he isn't too happy about losing the hog hunting business.

If this is some gov't conspiracy to get rid of small farms I don't know about it.

I'm sure the farms, large and small, are none too happy with the damage the feral hogs are causing.

Skyhook
04-30-2012, 18:29
Ted had to shoot his hog.. his penned hogs.

http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/04/26/watch-ted-nugent-tells-the-full-story/

juggy4711
04-30-2012, 20:00
Thanks for your input. BTW, how's that feral pig issue in TX working out? :whistling:

We can hunt them from helicopters now, so better than before.

DocCasualty
05-01-2012, 00:12
We can hunt them from helicopters now, so better than before.
That sounds like fun!

oldman11
05-01-2012, 00:33
Pigs are not native to North America that is true. Since some are escaping and causing hell let's get rid of them all. No private or corporate pig farms should be allowed. In fact pig products should not be allowed to be sold in the US because of that. No more bacon, ham, porkchops etc... We will all be better off.
Surely you jest.:tongueout:

Mister_Beefy
05-01-2012, 02:06
if I had a farm and some government types showed up and ordered my livestock dead, they'd have to do it themselves.

Toyman
05-01-2012, 05:45
I thought this was about the guys that turned hogs loose on their property and had people pay to hunt them.

MI decided that they would close these operations down as the powers that be state the hogs that escaped fueled the feral pig problem.

The hunting crews were given notice quite some time ago that they were going to be shut down.

As Nugent has his Sunrize Acres ranch in Jackson I'm sure he isn't too happy about losing the hog hunting business.

If this is some gov't conspiracy to get rid of small farms I don't know about it.

I'm sure the farms, large and small, are none too happy with the damage the feral hogs are causing.

Correct. These are not regular pigs. They are Russian boars, Eurasian wild boars, or razorbacks. Everywhere these get out they have cuased major problems. The DNR is simply trying to avoid the problem. False Rumors About Feral Swine Enforcement - Setting the Record Straight (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12145_55230-276322--,00.html).

Ruble Noon
05-01-2012, 15:21
First they came for the pigs...

TBO
05-01-2012, 15:27
Any time I see "Special thanks to Alex Jones..." in an article, I'll wait a bit before boarding the train. Thanks, anyway.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/TBO/Plusone.gif

Ruble Noon
05-01-2012, 15:30
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/TBO/Plusone.gif

I guess we should have posted an article from Alex Jones about the Hutaree. :whistling:

TBO
05-01-2012, 15:50
Alex Jones has a long history, period.

DocCasualty
05-01-2012, 20:03
Correct. These are not regular pigs. They are Russian boars, Eurasian wild boars, or razorbacks. Everywhere these get out they have cuased major problems. The DNR is simply trying to avoid the problem. False Rumors About Feral Swine Enforcement - Setting the Record Straight (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10370_12145_55230-276322--,00.html).
Toyman, logic has failed this thread, but God bless you for trying to point out the obvious.

Ruble Noon
05-01-2012, 20:14
History and background on Wild Hogs in Georgia

http://www.blackmouthcur.com/ha01.htm

Wild hogs have been around for a long time.

kirgi08
05-02-2012, 07:53
First they came for the pigs...

:agree: :goodpost: