Appleseed shoot [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Appleseed shoot


rwrjr
04-17-2012, 08:55
Some of you may consider this worthy of the S&P forum, others may not.

My wife and I, plus two female cousins attended the Appleseed shoot in Annapolis MD last weekend. Beautiful weather, nice people and a good time all around.

If you have not attended any type of rifle marksmanship training in the past you may find Appleseed training beneficial. I've only been shooting for about 5 years and never had any formal rifle training. I learned a bunch and I certainly improved over the course of the weekend.

The price is fantastic, $70/guy, $10/gal. These prices cover both days.

Day one stared with a few targets just to calibrate each shooter and to see if they could at least achieve some groups with their rifle. Some instruction on natural point of aim followed to tighten groups. Once everybody was shooting some sort of groups we went over MOA as related to scope and/or iron sights adjustments. We also went over MOA and distance from target from between 100 - 500 yards out.

I've never learned how to use a sling and I was very happy that they included instructions on how to use the basic GI sling. Appleseed teaches the hasty sling from standing and the loop sling from seated/kneeling and prone.

After most getting some sort of groups and then getting their scopes/sights dialed in we started working on the Army Qualification Targets (AQT). Ten shots standing within 2 minutes at a simulated 100 yards, 10 shots transition from standing to seated in 55 seconds at a simulated 200 yards, 10 shots transition from standing to prone in 65 seconds at a simulated 300 yards, and finally 10 shots prone, slow fire, in 5 minutes at a simulated 400 yards. All targets were at 25 meters and were just smaller to simulate longer distances. The 200 and 300 yard timed portions were done with two magazines loaded with 2 and 8 rounds so each included a magazine change.

Day two spent the morning with a quick review of groups and adjustments from day one since we had two new shooters come to the 2nd day only. The remainder of the day was spent with lots of AQTs, a few redcoat targets and some fun and unique drills that all found helpful.

Interwoven throughout both days were small history breaks that concentrated on the events of April 19th, 1775. Some very interesting material and well placed to break up all the shooting. For those of us on the wrong side of 50 the breaks were a welcome relief from some of the prone shooting as my neck was getting some kinks.

The only downside for me was that I didn't earn my rifleman patch last weekend. Minimum score was 210 and my best were 192, 192, 191 and 190. I was shooting a Marlin 795 outfitted with tech sights and a GI sling, one of the standard builds suggested as a Liberty Training Rifle (LTR) by Appleseed. I'm curious to know how much better, if any, my scores would have been with a scope but I'd much rather earn the patch with iron sights.

We had 12 people attend over the weekend, 7 did both days, 3 did only day one, and 2 did only day two. Three people earned their rifleman patch last weekend. All three had scopes by the way. I think the best score of the weekend was a 232 but don't quote me on that.

If you want a nice, low pressure, relaxing weekend, with good people I think you'll find an Appleseed shoot a hard bargain to beat. I plan on going back in the fall and I plan on getting that patch. :supergrin:

Kieller
04-17-2012, 11:01
The first rifle training I had was at an Appleseed. I only went for the first day butI enjoyed it alot and I plan to go to another sometime soon and try to get my patch.

I also plan to take a rifle in which the sights won't break off. :steamed:

Sam Spade
04-17-2012, 11:23
<---- Rifleman. (Yay!)

An excellent program on the fundamentals of riflery. I wouldn't end my training there, but I can think of nowhere better to start. The combination of price, program and professionalism is unbeatable.

AK_Stick
04-17-2012, 12:27
I found it to be a good class to teach the basics. I was rather disappointed overall, as I was expecting something that would help improve my long range shooting, and everything was done at 25 yds.


No matter how you cut it, shooting a reduced silhouette at 25 yds, does not help you prepare to shoot the real deal at 300-400-500.


However, if someone isn't already a capable marksman, and is looking for good instruction, its a GREAT class. And I'd highly recommend it.

FerFAL
04-17-2012, 14:30
Excellent program, the Appleseed guys I've met were all very nice people. Fun to do a bit of shooting too:supergrin:
FerFAL

rwrjr
04-17-2012, 14:30
I found it to be a good class to teach the basics. I was rather disappointed overall, as I was expecting something that would help improve my long range shooting, and everything was done at 25 yds.


No matter how you cut it, shooting a reduced silhouette at 25 yds, does not help you prepare to shoot the real deal at 300-400-500.


However, if someone isn't already a capable marksman, and is looking for good instruction, its a GREAT class. And I'd highly recommend it.

Agreed that reduced silhouettes don't equate to long distance shooting since wind and bullet drop aren't an issue at 25 meters but the work on sight picture, trigger control and natural point of aim is a good foundation for any further training. I personally don't have a need to go beyond what is taught at Appleseed at this point so once I get the patch I'll probably try to get some skeet and trap training because I just plain suck at both.

Sam Spade
04-17-2012, 15:13
No matter how you cut it, shooting a reduced silhouette at 25 yds, does not help you prepare to shoot the real deal at 300-400-500.

Going back to my old high school geometry proofs, the term I'd use is "neccessary but not sufficient".

If Deadeye Dick is incapable of shooting a 1" square at 25 yards with his rifle/ammo combination, under good lighting and while essentially disregarding wind, there's no way he's going to become magically compent and smack headshots at some unknown distance between 3 and 500 yards under field conditions. And I've seen a telephone book full of people that can't hold 4 MOA at 25 yards, even from the prone.

smokin762
04-17-2012, 16:37
I have wanted to go to an Appleseed shoot for a while now. Unfortunately my timing sucks, and something always seems to come up and I am unable to make it.:crying: I will make it to one, one day.

For the past two years, I have been going to Camp Perry and Participating in the Excellence In Competition Matches (EIC Match for short).The Army Marksmanship Unit (AMU) and NRA Certified Instructors teach the class.They will get you familiar with the M16/AR15 rifle and teach you how to shoot it with iron sights at 200 yards. Unfortunately, they no longer use M16’s. Last year the CMP switched over to Rock River Arms National Match rifles. They had too many issues with the M16’s being worn out.

I highly recommend taking the Beginners class first. Here they will teach what you need to know about the basic operation of the rifle.They will also get you familiar with shooting positions.

In the Advanced class, they get a little more detailed about the shooting positions and they teach the shooter how to properly use the A2sights.

I found this to be very useful and I have been practicing what I have learned every time I go to the range. I no longer use the Shooting Bench. I throw a mat down and have at it.

The first year I competed, I shot in the 260’s out of a possible 400. The second year, I shot in the 320’s out of a possible 400. I feel I need more improvement but that will come with time.

You also get to keep the brass and get a free T-shirt. :supergrin:

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-17-2012, 18:04
I found it to be a good class to teach the basics. I was rather disappointed overall, as I was expecting something that would help improve my long range shooting, and everything was done at 25 yds.


The 25 yard thing is range/area dependent. Around here, a short drive can get you to one at Knob Creek that is 25 yards, or Evansville that is 300..

Having qualified "expert" with nearly everything the Army has/had that wasn't artillery specific, I still had a great time. And intend to go again.

AK_Stick
04-17-2012, 23:03
Had I known what I was getting into, I probably would have enjoyed it more.

I was made to beleive we'd be shooting long range, and small targets etc. Just poor recruiting.

jason10mm
04-18-2012, 07:17
Is there really that big of a price differential between the genders? Or is it because the women were all getting a "family rate"? Unless they are letting you shoot a .50BMG while the ladies shoot BBs I'm not sure why there would be a $60 difference.

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-18-2012, 07:26
Is there really that big of a price differential between the genders? Or is it because the women were all getting a "family rate"? Unless they are letting you shoot a .50BMG while the ladies shoot BBs I'm not sure why there would be a $60 difference.

When we went, ladies took the class free. They are trying to encourage women to learn to shoot. making the cost of the classes low or free helps a lot.

They don't "let" you shoot anything, YOU supply your weapon(s) and ammo. We took 2 10-22's, 2 AR's and 2 Garands. Along with ammo for all. In the end, we both shot 10-22's in the first part, and then at the 300 line she shot her AR and I shot a Garand.

rwrjr
04-18-2012, 07:46
Is there really that big of a price differential between the genders? Or is it because the women were all getting a "family rate"? Unless they are letting you shoot a .50BMG while the ladies shoot BBs I'm not sure why there would be a $60 difference.

Well both prices include the $10 registration fee so I guess you can technically say that women shoot for free.

The $60 price difference is there to encourage women to come out and play. It didn't bother me because I looked at the $70 price for myself as a heck of a bargain. It works out to something ridiculous like $5/hour of instruction.

Children are only $5. My son is 7 years old. When I think he's old enough to make it through both days I'll be happy to return with him.

As said before, you shoot your own rifle(s) but at my Appleseed they did have loner rifles and two of the women that were having trouble with the rifles they brought took advantage of the loners. Loner availability probably varies by location and/or instructor team.

I brought one extra rifle as a backup but never had to use it. I'm happy to say that my wife's and my Marlin 795s didn't have a single hiccup in over 700 rounds each using CCI MiniMags.

Bilbo Bagins
04-18-2012, 13:26
I have had previous Army training, but that was (Gulp) over 22 years ago. I was thinking of doing an Appleseed as a birthday present to myself, but I'm looking for one that does the overnight campout.

Do they still do that? If so it seems like good idea for S&P folks, you can get some rifle training and camp out to test your BOB and gear.

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-18-2012, 14:29
As far as I know, they are all 2 days.. camping AT the range would be specific to that range/venue.. On the website, when you look at the information and schedule page, they will say what the camping/lodging availabilities are.

(ie: here is one near me (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=27483.0) )

When/where we went, the range was 4 miles from a nice RV park, so we "camped".. if 3 days and nights in a 31 foot Airstream is camping..lol

But since that is my BOB, it was good practice. ;-)

mac66
04-19-2012, 19:32
I took my 20 year old daughter to an Appleseed. We had a great time. Even though she had lots of experience with guns, I could not have given her the kind of instruction she got at the Appleseed. I even shot rifleman at my first one and paid my way for another one just to do it again. I thought it was bargain both times.

I thought the skills learned at Appleseed translate very well at long range with center fire rifles. It significantly improved my long range shooting.