government to have arbitrary powers over your ability to "get out" [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Chronos
04-21-2012, 11:21
The US Senate just passed a bill (introduced by Barbara Boxer) that allows the IRS to confiscate your passport, if they claim you owe them more than $50k. And, as we all know, the IRS operates on a "guilty until proven innocent" system.

So, the government is now claiming essentially arbitrary powers to limit your ability to leave the country.

The bill hasn't passed the house yet, but "is expected to" according to talking heads. Somehow, I doubt Obama will veto.

More Power for the IRS: When Will the Taxman Come for You? - YouTube

Jonesee
04-21-2012, 11:25
If you commit a felony, your passport should be revoked pending your trial.

Why is white collar crime any different than street crime?
If you molested someone or battered a policeman should you be able to leave the country prior to trial?

Chronos
04-21-2012, 11:31
If you commit a felony, your passport should be revoked pending your trial.

Why is white collar crime any different than street crime?

It is not a felony to owe back taxes, and this does not require any "due process" on the part of the IRS. This is arbitrary power to keep you from leaving.

Ruble Noon
04-21-2012, 11:39
It is not a felony to owe back taxes, and this does not require any "due process" on the part of the IRS. This is arbitrary power to keep you from leaving.

If obamacare is not struck down will the people that don't have government approved health insurance plans have their passports confiscated by the IRS?

Seems like someone warned us of the government prohibiting Americans from exiting the country.

Jonesee
04-21-2012, 11:48
It is not a felony to owe back taxes, and this does not require any "due process" on the part of the IRS. This is arbitrary power to keep you from leaving.

Tax evasion is a felony.

And if you are being investigated for a felony street crime and deemed a flight risk, they can take your passport.

Chronos
04-21-2012, 11:51
Tax evasion is a felony.

And if you are being investigated for a felony street crime and deemed a flight risk, they can take your passport.

They do not have to charge you with tax evasion, or any crime whatsoever.

But it's nice to see where you stand on arbitrary powers of the US government, and honest debate for that matter.

Chronos
04-21-2012, 11:52
If obamacare is not struck down will the people that don't have government approved health insurance plans have their passports confiscated by the IRS?

Seems like someone warned us of the government prohibiting Americans from exiting the country.

Yes, I remember that, and I remember the usual suspects of GTPI scoffing at the very idea, saying it could never happen here.

Jonesee
04-21-2012, 11:52
They do not have to charge you with tax evasion, or any crime whatsoever.

But it's nice to see where you stand on arbitrary powers of the US government, and honest debate for that matter.

The key word is "BEING INVESTIGATED".

Don't change my words.

And no one has stated why there should be a difference in the treatment of one felony (blue collar) and another (white collar).

Javelin
04-21-2012, 11:53
Wouldn't want anyone to escape this country's mess without paying their taxes.

Really this is just setting the stage for next year or so when we will see Taxageddon. You thought all those zeros behind the national debt was just a curio and didn't have to be paid? Like I said, the government is ensuring that no one gets out alive on this little tab owed to the bar.

:rofl:

Chronos
04-21-2012, 11:56
The key word is "BEING INVESTIGATED".

Don't change my words.

Investigation for felony tax evasion is not a requirement either. Do you just enjoy being a slave, or what?

Javelin
04-21-2012, 11:58
And before someone says "BS, TINFOILHATTER (//or whatever insult you can come up with), MY COUNTRY IS AWESOME AND NEVER DO THAT TO ANYONE BECAUSE IT'S AMERICA AND AMERICA LOVES ME".

"Taxmageddon falls 70 percent on middle and low income families. That's because 60 percent of the Bush tax cuts were for middle- and low-income taxpayers," Dubay said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/17/taxmageddon-coming-answer-could-cost-americans-500-billion/#ixzz1shOHgOi0

Here is a link: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/17/taxmageddon-coming-answer-could-cost-americans-500-billion/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/sunday-review/coming-soon-taxmageddon.html

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2012/04/20/taxmageddon-a-crude-world-poor-spain/
(put a few links in there just for some of you brainwashed souls that piss about sources)

Ruble Noon
04-21-2012, 11:58
Yes, I remember that, and I remember the usual suspects of GTPI scoffing at the very idea, saying it could never happen here.

They also scoffed at the idea of TSA checkpoints on our roads.

Jonesee
04-21-2012, 12:11
Here are the laws:

The first already restricts the passport of those that are not paying govt guaranteed loans like student loans. These restrictions are already on the books:
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-2898/0-0-0-3335.html

This next post is from the GAO with the proposed new restriction:

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-272

Sorry guys we just have to disagree on this. I believe, you do the crime you do the time!! Pay your damn taxes like I do and you don't have to worry. Molestation, battery, tax evasion, are all crimes.

Hell and I've been through a complete audit, two actually. So I know more than most what dealing with the IRS is like. And in both instances my tax forms stood up with no adjustment.

I am all for making tax cheats pay...


If you hate the IRS, get the tax code changed. Don't support criminals and tax cheats though. I pay mine, you pay yours and they should pay theirs.

The Machinist
04-21-2012, 13:28
You mean the House Republicans aren't going to kill this bill? I'm shocked. :upeyes:

Chronos
04-21-2012, 13:31
Here are the laws:

The first already restricts the passport of those that are not paying govt guaranteed loans like student loans. These restrictions are already on the books:
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-2898/0-0-0-3335.html

This next post is from the GAO with the proposed new restriction:

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-272

Sorry guys we just have to disagree on this. I believe, you do the crime you do the time!! Pay your damn taxes like I do and you don't have to worry. Molestation, battery, tax evasion, are all crimes.

Hell and I've been through a complete audit, two actually. So I know more than most what dealing with the IRS is like. And in both instances my tax forms stood up with no adjustment.

I am all for making tax cheats pay...


If you hate the IRS, get the tax code changed. Don't support criminals and tax cheats though. I pay mine, you pay yours and they should pay theirs.

No kidding we're going to have to disagree on this. Your position boils down to "the US is already flirting with fascism, so why not go all the way?"

You are clearly comfortable with "paying yours," have zero problem with handing the government arbitrary powers over everyone else, and actively want to see men with guns controlling the movements/lives of peaceful, productive people who resist in order to make them pay.

May your chains rest lightly on you, slave.

Jonesee
04-21-2012, 14:26
No kidding we're going to have to disagree on this. Your position boils down to "the US is already flirting with fascism, so why not go all the way?"

You are clearly comfortable with "paying yours," have zero problem with handing the government arbitrary powers over everyone else, and actively want to see men with guns controlling the movements/lives of peaceful, productive people who resist in order to make them pay.

May your chains rest lightly on you, slave.

You can drop the insults.

The tax laws are already on the books. are you saying you choose not to follow those laws and not pay your taxes?

Change the laws if you don't like them.