Hiding it. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Bolster
04-21-2012, 19:43
What are "best practices" for hiding goods? Part of prepping is getting your preps out of sight, so what are clever hiding places in the house, garage, garden, cabin, car? Where are the last places anyone would look for stashed items?

What are the techniques used? (For example, I have heard of people filling ABS pipe with items, sealing it with caps and ABS cement at both ends, and burying it.)

OR, do you believe hiding preps is a waste of time & effort? Is it easy to find most anything hidden with the right tools? Metal detector? Ground radar? If so, explain.

If your question is "what items," let your mind wander on that one. It would be whatever the non-prepared (or Big Brother) will come looking for.

cowboy1964
04-21-2012, 20:25
Personally I'm not too worried about hiding stuff to any great degree. Some stuff, ok, but the bottom line is you need to defend your main cache. If things are so bad that you main cache could be taken then you are in trouble anyway and have bigger problems.

Chindo18Z
04-21-2012, 20:38
Today, you can't actually hide anything from a concerted search. If the Eye of Sauron focuses on you...nothing you do will work...with the possible exception of caching goods at a random and very distant location. Even then, if you have left the slightest hint or clue of travels...the search will simply re-focus to that location. The technology, man-power, dog-power, and search experience available to the authorities can generally find anything you can hide.

Actually, if you can emplace a cache within a day's round trip travel (including emplacement), exercising cover for action and cover for status, you might effect a reasonable and successful cache effort. Until your stupid neighbor reminds everyone that he saw you dump empty Twinkie boxes in the trash right before you loaded up the shovels and pipe (and drove North on the only road out of town...).

In other words, if you want your buried PVC pipe full of Twinkies to remain sub-rosa...you'll need to throw a dart at a map of the USA, go to another county or state (cash only travel), conceal it, and come back. Without detection, observation, or having left a trail.

The real question when it comes to defeating confiscation is to make a realistic threat evaluation. Just how many resources can the authorities reasonably devote to looking for just your Twinkies...as opposed to everyone else's Twinkies?

If they are just looking for your's, you might as well break out some Coca-Colas for the searchers. That way they'll have something to wash down the discovered Twinkies and be nicer to you when they lead you away in handcuffs. :cool:

Stevekozak
04-22-2012, 07:22
Today, you can't actually hide anything from a concerted search. If the Eye of Sauron focuses on you...nothing you do will work...with the possible exception of caching goods at a random and very distant location. Even then, if you have left the slightest hint or clue of travels...the search will simply re-focus to that location. The technology, man-power, dog-power, and search experience available to the authorities can generally find anything you can hide.

Actually, if you can emplace a cache within a day's round trip travel (including emplacement), exercising cover for action and cover for status, you might effect a reasonable and successful cache effort. Until your stupid neighbor reminds everyone that he saw you dump empty Twinkie boxes in the trash right before you loaded up the shovels and pipe (and drove North on the only road out of town...).

In other words, if you want your buried PVC pipe full of Twinkies to remain sub-rosa...you'll need to throw a dart at a map of the USA, go to another county or state (cash only travel), conceal it, and come back. Without detection, observation, or having left a trail.

The real question when it comes to defeating confiscation is to make a realistic threat evaluation. Just how many resources can the authorities reasonably devote to looking for just your Twinkies...as opposed to everyone else's Twinkies?

If they are just looking for your's, you might as well break out some Coca-Colas for the searchers. That way they'll have something to wash down the discovered Twinkies and be nicer to you when they lead you away in handcuffs. :cool:
This confused me AND made me hungy!! :)

mac66
04-22-2012, 07:35
Caching may be a good idea, but then again maybe not. In my experience if you stash something away you are likely to forget about it. Out of sight, out of mind. In a SHTF situation and under stress, you are unlikely to remember that you even stashed stuff let alone where it is.

Donn57
04-23-2012, 18:53
The question is a little broad.

What you can hide from looters and what you can hide from a search by the government are two different things.

Hiding your collection of silver dollars is way different than hiding your six month supply of food.

I can hide a lot of stuff in my house that won't be found during a casual search, but would be found if someone spent a lot time looking and tearing up the house.

GLOCK17DB9
04-23-2012, 18:56
If I told you now it wouldn't be a good hiding place now would it?:supergrin:

jdavionic
04-23-2012, 18:58
This confused me AND made me hungy!! :)

Thanks...you owe me a new monitor :rofl:

jdavionic
04-23-2012, 19:15
I've had this discussion with a friend at work, who is a fellow prepper.

Hiding has the advantage that you don't allow someone to just say 'oh yea, that's where it is...' and then work on defeating the method of securing it. For example, you put a large safe in your BOL in a cabin in the woods. What are the odds that your stuff will be there when you arrive?

On the other hand, hiding has the obvious risks that you may have sacrificed more security for the advantage of making it hidden.

I'm a big fan of a little of both. I've seen some very clever ideas of false walls, fake shelves, etc. I think those are great, but I wouldn't want to leave the firearm unsecured. For example, I have some firearms hidden. What I've done is remove the bolt/firing pins so that even if discovered, I don't worry about walking in and having them used against me.

It gets more difficult / challenging when hiding at a BOL. You are relying on it being absolutely secure. This guy actually cut into the concrete foundation, used a PVC setup and cosmoline, put it underground, put the cut block over, and then put flooring on top. I'd say the odds that his stash gets discovered are very low.

gunowner1
04-23-2012, 19:44
This confused me AND made me hungy!! :)
:rofl::rofl:

Akita
04-23-2012, 20:46
This confused me AND made me hungy!! :)

Easily Post of the Year.

Bolster
04-23-2012, 23:55
This guy actually cut into the concrete foundation, used a PVC setup and cosmoline, put it underground,

So does the cosmoline/seal-in-PVC have a good track record? It works well? Does that sort of setup work for years, decades? Indefinitely?

jdavionic
04-24-2012, 04:05
So does the cosmoline/seal-in-PVC have a good track record? It works well? Does that sort of setup work for years, decades? Indefinitely?

Not sure. He has not run tests, except a crude one that I don't think really answers the questions. He did it on a smaller scale with a piece of steel for a couple of weeks. I wouldn't view that as a valid test.

With that said though, armies have used cosmoline for storing firearms for many years. I have not heard of someone buying a surplus firearm nor have I experienced in the ones that I've bought...where a firearm is caked in cosmoline and underneath the metal has rusted. Granted they have not been buried. However in many cases, the guns have sat in crates in storage locations that are far from ideal.

P.S. I should add one word of caution. You are not going to have a functional firearm until you remove the cosmoline. Point being, if you use it, you have to clean the stuff off before using the gun.

kirgi08
04-24-2012, 09:06
HIPC.The Idea is ta be off the radar.Those "bonus" cards one uses ta save at the local grocer can be tracked.

When a chain has a "card" sale they save those results ta plan on future "buys". Those purchases go inta a data base fer research/IE-public buying patterns.Most folk don't realize that those records are kept.So .gub can "audit" a chain and see whom is buying what.

Anybody that gives "real" info on those apps can be found,also anyone that uses c/cards/debit can be also.

Cash for preps,folks.No paper and YOU know what youse can afford. '08.

Kieller
04-25-2012, 06:32
...It would be whatever the non-prepared (or Big Brother) will come looking for.

Hiding from the masses and hiding from Big Brother are different. Hiding something from a random house search or a mob just hell bent on going down the street searching homes would be relatively easy. Hiding from Big Bro who has metal detectors, dogs and a whole host of free time and tax payer dollars to waste is another thing.

I believe in not only being smart on hiding but also being deceptive. If they come expecting to find guns/ammo/food...make a small cache easier to find than your main stash. They will be satisfied that they have found what they are looking for and you can retain the majority of your items. Its important to portray the proper attitude.

I also like to use items that no one wants to deal with. My favorite is kitty litter boxes. They make great containers and can easily hide various items. Sure you can't stash a rifle in a kitty litter box but ammo can easily be stashed. There are several others that I like to employ also. The 'Garbage Heap' technique is also fun :supergrin:

DrSticky
04-25-2012, 09:24
If I had a rifle or pistol to bury(or hide), I would use these.

https://www.zcorrproducts.com/

With an external container of course.

pugman
04-25-2012, 09:51
Caching may be a good idea, but then again maybe not. In my experience if you stash something away you are likely to forget about it. Out of sight, out of mind. In a SHTF situation and under stress, you are unlikely to remember that you even stashed stuff let alone where it is.

Amen to this. One day I'm in my father's basement and he says "oh yeah, btw if I die tomorrow see that 4th cinderblock from the corner...behind the insulation there about 3-4' are 5 fireboxes with your mother's silver coin collection."

If he would have been hit by a bus the day before no one knew this - tens of thousands of dollars worth of silver coins (1,000 silver dollars from the late 1800-early 1900's)

Best place I saw was a place you wouldn't really want to go.

My uncle has a farm with one outbuilding full of old, rusty farm implements. Ignoring the fact its a metal building full of sharp rusty equipment you would really want to get the to places he has things buried to step foot in the place. Spiders, mice/rats, and enough waiting to cut you Tetanus covered crap I would think most searchers would just ignore the building. I personally think he intentionally throws old pieces of barbed wire in there just to make a point.

Chindo18Z
04-25-2012, 13:15
Stevekozak: This confused me AND made me hungy!!

What's confusing? Perhaps I can do a better job of explaining...

If YOU are the only person of interest subjected to search (by the authorities, a mutant warlord and his army of raiders, your money-grubbing relatives after you die)...every likely location that intersects with your known Pattern of Life will be analyzed as a hiding spot. Where you live. Where you work. Where you pursued your hobbies or recreation. Anyplace you frequented. Any place you owned. Your Girlfriend's apartment.

If the authorities are so inclined, they will (at a nuts & bolts level) disassemble your house, your outbuildings, your vehicles, your landscaping, your workplace, your cabin, and any other possession or piece of real property associated with you (or anyone you know). They will turn any suspected piece of ground (or water) into an archaeological dig... gridded, flagged, and sifted. Searched with electronic/chemical snoopers, turned by shovel and wrecking tools, dug up by excavators, penetrated by radar/thermal scopes/metal detectors, sniffed by trained canines, etc.

The Beltway Sniper. Remember? The FBI tracked him back to his former residence in the Pacific NW. They located and pulled up the tree stump he had once used for target practice...in order to effect ballistic matching of his weapon and those found at the scene of the homicides. They dug up every square inch of his former yard. Had he had a cache at that location...it (or anything else they wanted to find) would have been found.

If you are just trying to keep stuff from casual prying eyes (burglars, nosy kids, random hikers, etc.)...then it's a case of choosing standard concealment techniques (hidden safe, inside-the-house concealment location, above ground cache, buried cache, plain site concealment cache, submerged cache, etc.).

Most folks screw up when they try to make their cache concept fit into a "Keep It Close & Convenient for Access" model. That model can be figured out by folks interested in claiming your stuff. Your back yard, basement, or attic ain't gonna cut it. Nor your relative's or best friend's house. Nor the obvious vacant wooded lot across the street from your house.

You need to figure on locations that are essentially random and somewhat distant (little connection to your normal daily activities/routes), unlikely to be compromised by other humans visiting that location, unlikely to be affected by natural or man-made changes to the location (frost heave, flood, construction, clear cutting, etc.), and at a place where you will not be seen, remembered, or remarkably noticed for visiting (back when you emplaced the cache).

If you get noticed (chance meeting with a farmer, deputy sheriff, game warden, kids out hiking while you were digging)...you need to have a reasonable story to explain what you were just doing. One that doesn't involve telling folks that you just buried an SKS, ammo, cash, and survival crap.

If all your family and neighbors know that you periodically hike to the top of Gobbler's Knob with your dog (to have a beer and watch the sunset)...don't use the top of Gobbler's Knob for a cache location. But you might find a suitable location somewhere around the base of a multi-square mile mountain that is useful for future emplacement. And you already have a well established reason for being there...walking your dog.

You: "Hey there officer...I'm just walking the dog. I usually walk him on this mountain a couple a times per week. We just decided to take a different path tonight."

Officer: "No problem Mr. Smith. We had a report of a suspicious person wandering behind the Jones' house on the north side of the mountain. Have a nice night!"

When emplacing or recovering a cache, you need to have a casual throw-away verbal cover ID (I'm Joe Somebody, Butterfly Collector) and a reasonable story that explains why you are where you are, doing what you are doing. If you meet an actual law enforcement officer ...you give your real name and ID, but have a plausible and legal explanation for your presence and activities.

You: "Hey Officer...I'm Joe Smith. I came out to this field to do some hobby landscape photography. Here's my DL."

Officer: "Hmmm...Where's your camera?"

You: "Doh!" :wow:

Or...

Farmer: "Hey there Friend...Whatcha doing out here along my property wood line? Dintcha see that Private Property sign?"

You: "I'm Joe Somebody (not your real name) I'm collecting the North American Twinkie Eater...It's the mating season. I've been looking to capture this butterfly for my daughter's school project. I'm sorry for trespassing...I didn't realize I'd strayed out of the BLM forest." You might want to have a net and a dead butterfly as props...instead of a visible PVC pipe, Multicam, Glock, and a shovel. :upeyes:

Urban areas (for city dwellers) offer a different set of challenges, but the principles remain the same.

You've got to balance time and space (how fast or desperately would I need to recover my cache items) against security (how likely is my cache to defeat casual vs. deliberate discovery). What risk can you effectively live with?

Twinkies...

Twinkies just make good cache sense. They'll last a thousand years and Hostess will probably quit making them soon (according to latest news reports). Good barter items. You could set yourself up as King if you've got Twinkies in the PAW. Zombieland Rules.

KG1F
04-25-2012, 14:48
Anybody ever hidden a casch at a cemetary? Was thinking about that last night. Find a recent grave where the dirt is still all loose and bury it there. I haven't done it but it seems like a place where nobody would look.

Chindo18Z
04-25-2012, 16:50
Anybody ever hidden a casch at a cemetary?

Yes. Folks have used that technique for centuries. It's been used as a plot device in countless modern movies.

Likely a felony in many states to desecrate a grave site. Not to mention committing criminal trespass on private property.

Also...a new grave is likely to start receiving visits from the newly bereaved. They are going to notice any changes to the plot or disturbance to any memorial items (flowers, candles, photos, etc.). "Who moved that wreath? Why is there new dirt spilled in the grass? Whose footprints are these? Why is there an empty MRE wrapper in the grass next to my Mom's grave?"

You have to weigh the risk...and the situation.

Donn57
04-25-2012, 17:10
Yes. Folks have used that technique for centuries. It's been used as a plot device in countless modern movies.

Likely a felony in many states to desecrate a grave site. Not to mention committing criminal trespass on private property.

You have to weigh the risk...and the situation.

You also have to take into account the possibility of the dead rising from the grave as a zombie and exposing your cache.

Chindo18Z
04-25-2012, 18:26
You also have to take into account the possibility of the dead rising from the grave as a zombie and exposing your cache.

Good point.

I'd try and remain optimistic. At least the digging would already be done...and it isn't likely anyone else would get close to your cache. :supergrin:

Bolster
04-25-2012, 18:43
You also have to take into account the possibility of the dead rising from the grave as a zombie and exposing your cache.

Or taking your cache and using it against you!!! None of the zombie movies show you real zombies, which in reality are often armed with automatic weaponry and work in cooperative teams (often with radios). They don't show this on TV because it would be too terrifying to the living to see how organized the zombies really are.

Zombies are not the staggering slow-witted fools you'd like to believe.

Chindo18Z
04-25-2012, 18:47
Zombies are not the staggering slow-witted fools you'd like to believe.

That explains some of my dates from many years ago...

thesurefire
04-25-2012, 21:02
I've thought about a PVC tube with a couple hundred bucks and a thumb drive with critical info. Where to put it where its easy to get to but is secure and wont be found has always been my issue. I already keep a backup of that info with family off location so it seems like a unneeded risk.

I really don't hide much, mainly because I don't have much to hide. I've always though the idea of wads of 100s sewn into chair stuffing would be cool though.

If you've got the spare resources I do think a buried gun + ammo + cash + gold + silver is a great idea. Just make sure its buried deep and hidden well. The worst case scenario is you go to get it under good terms when you're old, or hey it would also make a cool scavenger hunt if you leave the location in your will.

TactiCool
04-25-2012, 22:23
Today, you can't actually hide anything from a concerted search. If the Eye of Sauron focuses on you...nothing you do will work...with the possible exception of caching goods at a random and very distant location. Even then, if you have left the slightest hint or clue of travels...the search will simply re-focus to that location. The technology, man-power, dog-power, and search experience available to the authorities can generally find anything you can hide.

Actually, if you can emplace a cache within a day's round trip travel (including emplacement), exercising cover for action and cover for status, you might effect a reasonable and successful cache effort. Until your stupid neighbor reminds everyone that he saw you dump empty Twinkie boxes in the trash right before you loaded up the shovels and pipe (and drove North on the only road out of town...).

In other words, if you want your buried PVC pipe full of Twinkies to remain sub-rosa...you'll need to throw a dart at a map of the USA, go to another county or state (cash only travel), conceal it, and come back. Without detection, observation, or having left a trail.

The real question when it comes to defeating confiscation is to make a realistic threat evaluation. Just how many resources can the authorities reasonably devote to looking for just your Twinkies...as opposed to everyone else's Twinkies?

If they are just looking for your's, you might as well break out some Coca-Colas for the searchers. That way they'll have something to wash down the discovered Twinkies and be nicer to you when they lead you away in handcuffs. :cool:

I really do think you are giving ole' Festus a bit more credit than he deserves, especially if it's just prepping supplies that are being hidden. Those boys aren't going to employ ground penetrating radar for an average joe's miniscule stash. The dogs would also not be very effective unless they knew what they were looking for, and if that's the case, then they will probably know where to find it already. I also do not see legions of men scanning the earth with metal detectors in this scenario either.

And besides, if prepping supplies ever become outlawed, it might just be the case that the 'authorities' wind up finding a few more suprises than they anticipated.

A semi-relevant real world example: About 15 years ago, I had a neighbor that was engaged in horticulture, of the illegal kind, and was actively being investigated by LE. He never did get caught for growing (was arrested on unrelated charge), even when they knew he was a supplier, but it was the local 'jackals' that cleaned out his crop and shut him down.

So the way I see it, as long one does not ever tell anyone about their secret stockpile, and they are not on a special .gov list, then the probability of someone discovering it will be slim, provided that said person uses good tradecraft IMO.

Bolster
04-25-2012, 23:34
What's the opinion on hiding items in automobiles, in attics or crawlspaces, false panels, or other fake/hollow items?

Do such spaces generally get overlooked in say, a house robbery or a search warrant?

Chindo18Z
04-26-2012, 15:43
TactiCool: So the way I see it, as long one does not ever tell anyone about their secret stockpile, and they are not on a special .gov list, then the probability of someone discovering it will be slim, provided that said person uses good tradecraft IMO.

Exactly.

...but it was the local 'jackals' that cleaned out his crop and shut him down.

Another excellent point. And probably the most likely danger to any cache if you don't practice good OPSEC. How does the old saying go? "Three people can only keep a secret if two of them are dead."

I really do think you are giving ole' Festus a bit more credit than he deserves, especially if it's just prepping supplies that are being hidden. Those boys aren't going to employ ground penetrating radar for an average joe's miniscule stash.

I'm just conveying to folks what a detailed search can look like...from a perspective of having conducted successful searches for live caches. Often against folks who were both careless in their methods and couldn't keep a secret. Occasionally against very well hidden and compartmentalized emplacements. If you can hide it...someone can find it...especially if you make it easy for them to do so.

Risk might be high. Risk might be low. Everyone has to be their own best judge of circumstances...and plan accordingly.

TactiCool
04-26-2012, 23:26
What's the opinion on hiding items in automobiles, in attics or crawlspaces, false panels, or other fake/hollow items?

Do such spaces generally get overlooked in say, a house robbery or a search warrant?

Hiding anything in a vehicle is tantamount to asking for said item to be confiscated/stolen. Even really clever guys who try and weld in false panels into their gas tanks, hide items in engine components, etc. can easily get caught. Ex: All the LEO or the would-be perp has to do is tap with his finger along the length of the tank until the sound changes from tap-tap-tap to PING-PING-PING. Bingo. Compartment found. Cars, in general, are very modular and all compartments are easily accessible with rudimentary tools. It is almost impossible to keep something hidden during a thorough vehicle search, especially from LE.

And as for attics, ducts, lofts, etc., they are also accessible during a search warrant, and even small, difficult to reach areas can be easily probed with a fiber optic cable. Belive me, they will leave no stone unturned. You really just have to know how badly they want to get you. And if they have a warrant, they will know what they are looking for.

With wall panels, you might have a chance, but it depends on what you are hiding and how the compartment is located within the structure. But keep in mind that LE could obtain blueprints to your home and search every cavity in the house if they really wanted to find what you've got. When hiding items in the home, the odds are heavily against you, unless you have the training and the resources to avoid the seizure.

Now, when it is a simple burglary, concealment is not paramount, but making sure your possessions are well secured is the top priority. Generally, perps will not spend more than ten minutes in your home when looking for stuff to take. They want to get in and out as quickly as possible, in most cases.

TSAX
04-26-2012, 23:48
This confused me AND made me hungy!! :)

:rofl:









:50cal:

FLA45fan
05-06-2012, 21:50
was watching an episode of "the Good Wife" and the private investigator had a stash of cash, pistol, and ammo in a wall. She grabs a sledgehammer, yanks a picture off the wall, and goes to town. Out pops her secret stash - my wife looks at me and says "cool - why don't we do that?" BTW the show is set in gun friendly Cook County IL.

JDSTG58
05-11-2012, 16:14
.......

glockeglock
05-11-2012, 18:19
.....

Huntersun2
05-11-2012, 19:31
Just some food for thought.................had a wild fire cross my property, when the forestry service got done carving fire brake's I had 3' deep by 6' wide ditches that could have reveled buried treasure.

Akita
05-12-2012, 14:05
Installing secret compartments in your car is actually a violation of federal law and the laws of at least some states. I guessing as a tool for prosecuting smugglers and drug dealers, etc. I find it irritating I cannot hide lawfully earned money or a lawfully owned and carried gun in my own car....




Truth there. I just learned this nugget this year from a LE friend. BS, I say. I bought it, I will alter it to my convenience.
(well, actually I wont, but thats because i dont want to , not because some pencil necked bureaucrat says i cant).

Warp
05-12-2012, 21:44
I don't think I could hide anything worthwhile from the government. Of course, I would have to HAVE stuff worth hiding, that I could go without, before it would matter, lol.


I use a locked spare bedroom closet to keep casual observers from seeing much of my crap. Having the room full of extra furniture, some of which happens to be blocking the closet, doesn't hurt either.

A monitored alarm for all doors/windows, a couple of big dogs, proper exterior lighting, secured doors/windows, etc, help minimize the time a burglar would have to locate items or break into a safe.