Feds eye retirement-fund tax to cut $16 trillion-plus deficit [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruble Noon
04-24-2012, 06:19
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/plunder_CrD9s6MElVsEIJj2IVgHuK

stevelyn
04-24-2012, 06:33
Obama and his minions have been wanting to nationalize all retirement funds since they were coronated.

JFrame
04-24-2012, 06:36
Obama just wants to spread "the wealth" around... :upeyes:


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coastal4974
04-24-2012, 06:41
Did anyone really think that they were going to stop when they took over control of our healthcare money?

expatman
04-24-2012, 06:42
IIRC, in Ferfals book he stated that Argentina did just that. They conficated retirement accounts during their crisis.

HexHead
04-24-2012, 06:42
Anyone who thinks Congress will be able to restrain themselves and not start taxing distributions from Roth IRAs is a fool.

aircarver
04-24-2012, 06:53
:steamed:

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series1811
04-24-2012, 07:01
Again, going where the money is at and easy to take: the middle class.

Is there anybody here left that really thinks "the rich" doesn't include them when Obama and the liberals start talking about taxing the hell out of "the rich"?

coastal4974
04-24-2012, 07:10
Besides 401(k)s, other possibilities include the mortgage-interest deduction on second homes, as well as benefits from employer-provided health insurance, which are untaxed now.

It's only fair. :wavey:

marchboom
04-24-2012, 07:29
Again, going where the money is at and easy to take: the middle class.

Is there anybody here left that really thinks "the rich" doesn't include them when Obama and the liberals start talking about taxing the hell out of "the rich"?

Yep.

With the ultra corrupt obama syndicate, "Rich" is just a code word for "everyone".

JFrame
04-24-2012, 07:38
Again, going where the money is at and easy to take: the middle class.

Is there anybody here left that really thinks "the rich" doesn't include them when Obama and the liberals start talking about taxing the hell out of "the rich"?


Yep...Hopefully, there will be a wake-up call for some delusional sorts who actually buy into Obama's class warfare mantra that only a fraction of "one-percenters" will be targeted by his regime.

This brings to mind Pastor Martin Niemoller's classic observation on the rise of Nazi Germany: "First they came for the..."


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cowboywannabe
04-24-2012, 08:11
nothing is wrong with this country that about 400 rounds of .22lr couldnt take care of.

hyperstyx
04-24-2012, 09:07
Another socialist gooberment foray against the private, for-profit sector.

Brucev
04-24-2012, 10:16
Hum... if you live in employer provided housing... you pay S.S. and income tax on it. Right? If you have a car provided, membership in a gym, tennis/golf club, etc... etc., etc., etc. Why is health insurance any different?

Consider... would you rather pay tax on the benefit provided by the employer? Or would you rather simply have the employer put the cost of the benefit as cash into you pay so that you could then take the actual money and buy whatever coverage you wanted/did not want in the market place?

brickboy240
04-24-2012, 10:28
How about cutting some waste and not taxing or taking anyone's retirement accounts or benefits?

Odd how cutting the spending is NEVER an option to those people.

Keep taxing the rich and the middle class...and they will both go away.

- brickboy240

engineer151515
04-24-2012, 10:29
You guys saw this coming, right?


Did anyone really think Joe-the Plumber's 401K would be save from Obama's "spread the wealth around" philosophy?
Seriously?

America votes exactly what she deserves.

walt cowan
04-24-2012, 10:37
tip o'neil, dem. speaker of the house under carter said "ira's ar tax lope holes for the rich." yes. vote stupid and get stupid. anyone think mitt won't do the same thing?

Restless28
04-24-2012, 11:18
It's not just democrats. Both parties are complicit in this and most other things.

I have zero faith in this ship turning around now. ZERO.

coastal4974
04-24-2012, 15:27
fairtax.org

Restless28
04-24-2012, 15:41
I like the Fair Tax, but it has as much a chance of becoming law as does Romney becoming a true conservative.

wjv
04-24-2012, 16:06
OK. .

So if the $$ I put into my 401K was post-tax income, that would mean that when I started taking that money out, it SHOULD be tax free. . (except for profits made on the invested $$)

Fat Fricken Chance. .

The IRS will devise some guideline/rule to make sure it gets taxed coming & going. .

Javelin
04-24-2012, 16:08
It's not just Obama that wants this.

Romney will do the same damn thing as well if he were elected. It's all about the Benjamins.

Javelin
04-24-2012, 16:10
OK. .

So if the $$ I put into my 401K was post-tax income, that would mean that when I started taking that money out, it SHOULD be tax free. . (except for profits made on the invested $$)

Fat Fricken Chance. .

The IRS will devise some guideline/rule to make sure it gets taxed coming & going. .

Exactly.

Remember what Bill Klinton said. That 401K isn't really yours, it's the Governments because you haven't paid the tax on it.

Besides... this is the final nail in the financial coffin for the US. Banks are loaning 10 to 1 on that money in your 401k that really no longer exists anyway (hint: it's been leveraged and loaned many times over). I tell people to ask themselves if they are in denial about this unfortunate fact... why do financial institutions and .gov make it so hard to get your money back out of the system once it is in?

:whistling:

janice6
04-24-2012, 16:13
So the people that say they will not need SS because they provided for their own retirement, will eventually have to look to SS and nothing.



Everyone, welcome to welfare. (I know there will not be enough anyway)

Javelin
04-24-2012, 16:15
So the people that say they will not need SS because they provided for their own retirement, will eventually have to look to SS and nothing.

I'm afraid that there will be nothing for them. SS will be broke. Monetizing the national deficit and then funding the payoffs through national 401k consolidation is basically the end credits of the movie.

G29Reload
04-24-2012, 17:15
From what I recall hearing about this from other sources, its a house dem idea.

Which fortunately means, its going nowhere.


The idea was also floated when they controlled both houses early in Obama's term, but went nowhere then also.


I am concerned about failure Boehner's comment about there being a 1-3 chance of losing the House in Nov.

Give me strength. Please. If BHO gets re-elected…and the House falls to the Dems AGAIN…it.is.over.

The speaker's failure to show some brass, defund O-care…shameless. Just gutless and cowardly. I'm more concerned about retaining him than I am seeing an R get in the white house. Boehner has to go.

G17Jake
04-24-2012, 17:28
Remember what Bill Klinton said. That 401K isn't really yours, it's the Governments because you haven't paid the tax on it.



That makes no sense.The most they could lay claim to would be the percent you would have paid in additional taxes for the year you contributed the money.... but, the law said we could defer tax until we take the funds out of the 401(k), so it is all mine.

Ruble Noon
04-24-2012, 17:38
From what I recall hearing about this from other sources, its a house dem idea.

Which fortunately means, its going nowhere.


The idea was also floated when they controlled both houses early in Obama's term, but went nowhere then also.


I am concerned about failure Boehner's comment about there being a 1-3 chance of losing the House in Nov.

Give me strength. Please. If BHO gets re-elected…and the House falls to the Dems AGAIN…it.is.over.

The speaker's failure to show some brass, defund O-care…shameless. Just gutless and cowardly. I'm more concerned about retaining him than I am seeing an R get in the white house. Boehner has to go.

This idea is being kicked around by the ways and means committee. I wouldn't be surprised if a dem came up with it as they have trotted it out before, I also wouldn't be surprised if it gained some republican support.

Javelin
04-24-2012, 17:50
That makes no sense.The most they could lay claim to would be the percent you would have paid in additional taxes for the year you contributed the money.... but, the law said we could defer tax until we take the funds out of the 401(k), so it is all mine.

Hey I am just quoting the former President. And it's basically how the government feels about your 401k and the law is only as good as the law is upheld until they change the law which they do all the time.

If you feel good about it then I'm happy for you and you should be happy too.

G17Jake
04-24-2012, 18:12
Hey I am just quoting the former President. And it's basically how the government feels about your 401k and the law is only as good as the law is upheld until they change the law which they do all the time.

If you feel good about it then I'm happy for you and you should be happy too.

I don't doubt that the federal government has ideas for my money, or that they could use some twisted logic to explain to us how it would be best if they had that money.... and I don't feel good about it.... I was just saying Clinton's reasoning made no sense in the case you cited.

coastal4974
04-24-2012, 18:41
It's not just Obama that wants this.

Romney will do the same damn thing as well if he were elected. It's all about the Benjamins.


I couldn’t find anything about that.

F350
04-24-2012, 19:05
OK. .

So if the $$ I put into my 401K was post-tax income, that would mean that when I started taking that money out, it SHOULD be tax free. . (except for profits made on the invested $$)

Fat Fricken Chance. .

The IRS will devise some guideline/rule to make sure it gets taxed coming & going. .

My ROTH IRA is post-tax and everything comes out tax exempt (at this time, don't expect that to last).

427
04-24-2012, 20:52
I posted congressional meetings and articles on this very subject over a year and a half ago and quite a few members said it was silliness and that it could/would never happen.
From Sept 2010;
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/retirement_fund_trillions_lure.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/suspending-money-market-redemptions-now-legel-sec-approves-new-money-market-regulation-4-1-v

G29Reload
04-24-2012, 21:23
My ROTH IRA is post-tax and everything comes out tax exempt (at this time, don't expect that to last).

I have some Roth funds, but you know what?

I never trusted the concept for this reason and have always held them in suspicion…Reason?

401k and deductible IRA's you get a benefit up front. You immediately have the tax write off. Then as long as you have it, it accrues.

It is EXPECTED that you will be taxed as ordinary income at withdrawal.

With a Roth, you get nothing up front. You can only hope that it will remain untaxed at withdrawal since you took no benefit up front. As we can see, that's now no longer a guarantee.

This is why SS is the third rail of American politics. Retirement generally is a solemn promise with the financial instruments that cover it. To get so far down the road in life with a plan then find when you're too old to do anything about it that people are screwing with something you should NOT have to worry about is just beyond outrageous. The level of fear this can produce, the sleepless nights, its like saying the bank is no longer safe, everything is at risk. People that pull stuff like this should be in jail. Every last one of them.

Leave the retirement instruments alone. We had a DEAL.

dishonest, greedy effing pigs.

QNman
04-24-2012, 21:38
It's not just Obama that wants this.

Romney will do the same damn thing as well if he were elected. It's all about the Benjamins.

Cite?

What we know for sure versus what you suspect... I'll take my chances rather than being complicit in what we know.

As to the OP - unfortunately, not surprising. No ones money is safe when the government credit card is finally maxed out.

Gunnut 45/454
04-24-2012, 21:48
Ruble Noon
The title is incorrect! It should say "Democrats want to steal your retirement"!:supergrin:

Gundude
04-25-2012, 09:26
My ROTH IRA is post-tax and everything comes out tax exempt (at this time, don't expect that to last).I don't think that's correct. Everything you put in comes out "tax exempt" (since you already paid tax on it), but interest, dividends and capital gains your Roth IRA assets earn are taxed when you pull them out, because you don't pay taxes on them in the year you realize them. The whole point of a Roth IRA is so that those dividends, capital gains and interest can compound untaxed, giving you a growth rate much higher than if they were taxed in the year they were realized.

eracer
04-25-2012, 09:49
Again, going where the money is at and easy to take: the middle class.

Is there anybody here left that really thinks "the rich" doesn't include them when Obama and the liberals start talking about taxing the hell out of "the rich"?Short answer?

No one who is really paying attention.

(But take care, as any viewpoint other than 'Protect the wealthiest' is all too often seen as treasonous these days.)

G29Reload
04-25-2012, 09:59
I don't think that's correct. Everything you put in comes out "tax exempt" (since you already paid tax on it), but interest, dividends and capital gains your Roth IRA assets earn are taxed when you pull them out, because you don't pay taxes on them in the year you realize them. The whole point of a Roth IRA is so that those dividends, capital gains and interest can compound untaxed, giving you a growth rate much higher than if they were taxed in the year they were realized.

Only if you WD bfore 59.5.

After that, all WD's are tax free. That's the deal.

aircarver
04-25-2012, 10:08
Ruble Noon
The title is incorrect! It should say "Democrats want to steal your retirement"!:supergrin:

....But we knew that ! .....:steamed:

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Javelin
04-25-2012, 11:26
Cite?

What we know for sure versus what you suspect... I'll take my chances rather than being complicit in what we know.

As to the OP - unfortunately, not surprising. No ones money is safe when the government credit card is finally maxed out.

I'm tired of taking chances.

It's about rich vs. poor. All the poor have left are some meager 401k's since their retirement plans were stripped in this last recession.

Rich vs. Poor. Which side do you think Romney is on?

Javelin
04-25-2012, 11:30
And just to follow up with my comment.

We know that Romney does not value the Constitution of our land or the rights of citizens through his previous voting record. His judgement has proven that he will do whatever the liberals want and what 'needs to happen' to continue business as usual in Washington.

We need someone that will refuse the business as usual in Washington as it has done nothing for us the last couple decades. Romney is just not that guy.

Flying-Dutchman
04-25-2012, 15:31
I have a SEP IRA that I could cash out anytime with a 10% penalty; a reckless thing to do but if the fedgov is going to take it….

Why save for retirement if this is how it is going to be?

QNman
04-25-2012, 19:07
I'm tired of taking chances.

It's about rich vs. poor. All the poor have left are some meager 401k's since their retirement plans were stripped in this last recession.

Rich vs. Poor. Which side do you think Romney is on?

So... No cite? I guess we'll just have to take your word for it?

Ruble Noon
04-25-2012, 19:12
I'm tired of taking chances.

It's about rich vs. poor. All the poor have left are some meager 401k's since their retirement plans were stripped in this last recession.

Rich vs. Poor. Which side do you think Romney is on?

Nah, it's about the ruling class vs. us.

America's Ruling Class

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the/print?nomobile=1

F350
04-25-2012, 19:35
OK....Tried to find the IRS publication; y'all can figure out how that went:steamed:

Anyway; from CNN Money....
The main difference between the two types of IRAs is when you pay taxes on your investments. Traditional IRAs can delay the taxes until retirement, but with Roth IRAs, you pay tax now rather than later.
Here's how it works: With a Roth IRA, there is no up-front tax break, but you don't have to pay tax on withdrawals in retirement. That's the opposite of a traditional IRA, which may allow you to deduct at least part of your contributions if you qualify, but requires you to pay income tax on money you withdraw in retirement. Both accounts allow investments within them to grow without getting clipped by taxes each year.
There are other differences too.
Roth IRAs offer a bit more flexibility than traditional IRAs do. You may withdraw your contributions to a Roth IRA penalty-free at any time for any reason (but you'll be penalized for withdrawing any investment earnings before age 59 ˝ unless it's for a qualifying reason). If you converted money from a traditional IRA into a Roth IRA, you can't take it out penalty-free until at least five years after the conversion.
Roth IRAs also let you leave your money untouched for as long as you like. With a traditional IRA, you must start making withdrawals called "required minimum distributions" after you reach age 70 ˝. And while you can no longer make contributions to a traditional IRA after you have turned 70 ˝, you can keep contributing to a Roth IRA regardless of your age.

From another CNN Money page...
A Roth IRA is a retirement savings account that allows your money to grow tax-free. You fund a Roth with after-tax dollars, meaning you've already paid taxes on the money you put into it. In return for no up-front tax break, your money grows and grows tax free, and when you withdraw at retirement, you pay no taxes. That's right - every penny goes straight in your pocket

From About,com....
Tax Advantages of Roth IRA

The Roth IRA offers a tax advantage of a different type. Your contributions give you no current break on your income tax like the traditional IRA.
However, when you start taking money out of a Roth IRA it is tax-free. Your contributions have already been taxed, since you fund the Roth with after-tax dollars.

Gunnut 45/454
04-25-2012, 23:11
aircarver
Well I believe in truth of the matter. The Dumocrats are the one's pushing this new tax! They can't stand the fact they are out of money- I think Chinia finally told the Dictator no more! So they got to get more from some where else! So all you Obamite's go ahead and vote for him- since you don't have jobs - livin off uncle sugar's welfare in mommy's basement!:steamed:

Javelin
04-26-2012, 00:02
So... No cite? I guess we'll just have to take your word for it?

I'm not here trying to convince you or anyone else. I don't care what you really choose to believe as it's not really my problem.

Javelin
04-26-2012, 00:05
Nah, it's about the ruling class vs. us.

America's Ruling Class

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/07/16/americas-ruling-class-and-the/print?nomobile=1

Rich, Ruling Class, Invisible Hand, etc. they are all the same names for the same thing.

401k's are for us little people and a HUGE goldmine to tap into. Basically our .gov has no choice and will tap them before the day is done as no one is loaning .gov money any longer.

That is the last piggy bank left to break open before .gov is absolutely forced to cut back and scale down operations....

EDIT:

I do agree with you. I just hope that folks really don't count on the 401ks to really be there when they plan on retiring. It will be second verse of the city workers, union folk, and others that paid into a non-existent retirement fund. It just takes a while for people to wake the hell up and realize that there isn't a little drawer of money sitting there for them with their name on it... the money doesn't really exist until it is printed/claimed and with 401ks being leveraged by banks and private financial institutions it really is nothing more than a number on your computer screen that looks like this:

Your Account: $439,393.93


See how I did that? The financial institutions do the same thing. Why do you think it is so hard to withdraw it early again you think???? Folks really believe it is because the good folks at the IRS and .gov care about your retirement planning and want to make sure you are taken care of in your old age ????

Ask yourself that ... say it out loud. ..sounds kind of funny doesn't it?

answer: the money is financing leveraged loans and does not exist in real life and when it comes time to retire will probably not be there whatsoever as it will be a run on the bank if folks really take out their money (just like every other bank).

I don't need cites for this ****. It's just the way the world works folks.
:rofl:

series1811
04-26-2012, 03:24
Just remember what the bank robber Willie Sutton said, when asked why he robbed banks.

"Because, that's where the money is." :supergrin:

aircarver
04-26-2012, 07:04
Just remember what the bank robber Willie Sutton said, when asked why he robbed banks.

"Because, that's where the money is." :supergrin:

Willie Sutton risked 20 years for chump change, compared to politicians who steal trillions :wow: and don't seem to risk anything at all....:steamed:

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