Silvertip, XTP, or Gold Dot? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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oldways
04-25-2012, 13:46
What would you guys recommend ?

The use would be smaller hogs, small deer, feral dogs, and two legged varmits.

Gun is a Delta Elite. Ammo would be factory Hornady 180 or 200, Winchester Silvertip, or Underwood 180 Gold Dot @ 1200.

4949shooter
04-25-2012, 14:54
I like any of those choices for what you describe.

I would stick with the Underwood 180 GD, or the Silvertips more for 2 legged predators and varmints. I would go with one of the XTP's for hogs.

Wolf Spyder
04-25-2012, 17:46
I personally like Winchester 175gr. Silvertip JHP's for almost everything.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/IMG_0362small.jpg


However, I also like 165gr. Gold Dot JHP's in front of 10.2 grains of 800-X. It is hard to beat a 10mm JHP that expands to 1.200 inches.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/IMG_0402_0403enhancedcroppedsmall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/IMG_0406enhancedsmall.jpg

arushus
04-25-2012, 19:11
Xtp's for hogs

Angry Fist
04-25-2012, 19:30
XTP for everything but milk jugs. Then, I gotta grab a Nosler.

gofastman
04-25-2012, 23:38
From what I have gathered in my research, XTP's are really tough and like to be moved FAST. Hornady loads their ammo a little on the slow side and tends not to get optimal performance from their bullets.

Of the choices you listed I would go with the 180gr GD@1200

I have no real knowledge or interest in Silvertips

Andrew Wiggin
04-26-2012, 11:31
For the animals, any of those bullets look good. They are all pretty tough, except that the Silvertip often sheds its jacket. For people, the Gold Dots or Silvertips would be a better choice than XTPs. As tough as the XTP is, it does not perform well through clothing or barriers.

gofastman
04-26-2012, 17:29
As tough as the XTP is, it does not perform well through clothing or barriers.
And the Silvertip does? (honest curiosity)

CanyonMan
04-26-2012, 18:01
The XTP is a tuff bullet and has excellent penetration quality even out of a G20 at 100yd deer !

GD's are a very good choice for the 2 legged felons as are the XTP's. Bothe the XTP and the GD's are good for small pigs.

I use all HC bullets of my own loading for everything, but from time to time I do load up XTP's and GD's. I like the GD's heavy for caliber and bonded if I can find them.


Good luck.







CM

Andrew Wiggin
04-26-2012, 19:05
And the Silvertip does? (honest curiosity)

I don't know. The Gold Dot does really well through clothing and barriers and the XTP does really poorly. I haven't seen the data on the Silvertip so I can't say one way or another.

Opie 1 Kenopie
04-26-2012, 19:51
I've always been a Gold Dot fan. In all calibers and weights. The best expension and consistency in my experience.

Josrah
04-27-2012, 06:32
I put Gold dot in all my guns. Even my wife .380

oldways
04-27-2012, 06:56
Guys, I appreciate all the responses. Thanks to all of you.

Andrew Wiggin
04-27-2012, 09:13
Sorry for the hijack but .380 probably shouldn't be loaded with any JHP. I like Gold Dots a lot too but .380 suffers from inadequate penetration with any expanding ammo. Probably best to stick to ball in .380.

Angry Fist
04-27-2012, 13:48
Sorry for the hijack but .380 probably shouldn't be loaded with any JHP. I like Gold Dots a lot too but .380 suffers from inadequate penetration with any expanding ammo. Probably best to stick to ball in .380.
I agree. Just wouldn't feel secure enough.

Maine1
04-27-2012, 14:20
where does the data on the XTP's weaknesses come from? I use them almost exclusivley, and would like to know.

Pred8tory
04-27-2012, 15:16
XTPs all the way.

Andrew Wiggin
05-01-2012, 10:27
where does the data on the XTP's weaknesses come from? I use them almost exclusivley, and would like to know.

Hornady 38 Special 158gr XTP ballistic gel test - YouTube

.357 SIG Hornady XTP 147 gr AMMO TEST - YouTube

Hornady TAP FPD .40 S&W 155 gr JHP SIM-TEST w/denim - YouTube

The XTP by design, doesn't expand as aggressively as other bullets. When fired through 4 layers of denim it sometimes doesn't expand much at all. Other times it expands moderately and other times it doesn't expand.

I've mentioned before that the XTP makes a fine hunting bullet. Its intentionally controlled expansion results in great penetration. It is somewhat erratic when fired through denim, in comparison to Gold Dot, Ranger T, or other modern JHPs. That makes it less than ideal in my opinion. Can it expand? Sure. If you are aware of the limitations and choose it anyway, that's fine by me.

Angry Fist
05-01-2012, 15:13
How fast are those rounds going, in those three calibers?

inspectorjj
05-01-2012, 18:29
http://s019.radikal.ru/i616/1205/0d/d27b738682bc.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

This photo is awesome. I cannot imagine why anyone would not want to use this for self defense. This, to me, is like the perfect expansion. This photo is exactly why I jumped on the Underwood 165gr. GDs on my last order. I feel like I have to stock up before the word gets out to the general public.

bustedknee
05-01-2012, 18:41
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d98/leflers/GoldDotExpandedverbiage.jpg

Wolf Spyder
05-01-2012, 20:09
I like this one. The 9mm is the Critical Defense from Hornady and the 10mm is the Gold Dot that I handloaded with 10.2 grains of 800-X, that expanded to 1.20 inches. The top frame of the image uses the same two bullets as the bottom frame. Face up vs face down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/IMG_0402_0403enhancedcroppedsmall.jpg

gofastman
05-01-2012, 21:01
How fast are those rounds going, in those three calibers?
TOO SLOW! :supergrin:

The XTP by design, doesn't expand as aggressively as other bullets. When fired through 4 layers of denim it sometimes doesn't expand much at all. Other times it expands moderately and other times it doesn't expand.

I've mentioned before that the XTP makes a fine hunting bullet. Its intentionally controlled expansion results in great penetration. It is somewhat erratic when fired through denim, in comparison to Gold Dot, Ranger T, or other modern JHPs. That makes it less than ideal in my opinion. Can it expand? Sure. If you are aware of the limitations and choose it anyway, that's fine by me.
__________________
so they all expanded, just not in an explosive fashion like an overdriven gold dot... :headscratch:

that full wadcutter shape they expand into looks like it would be devastating!
to each their own, but those videos re-affirmed my liking for the XTP design, deep penetration and controlled expansion, just like they advertise!

Ak.Hiker
05-01-2012, 23:24
I would go with the 200 grain XTP's for hunting and any of the other 3 choices for SD. What ever ran best in the gun. For hunting the 200 grain load should give deeper penetration.

Cwlongshot
05-02-2012, 03:48
On the XTP's look at what Hornady claims as operating vel for the bullets...

200G is 1300 fps but the 180 is 1600 fps... Thats a tough bullet to provide expected performance at 1600 fps!!!

I agree the XTP is a better hunting bullet that PP bullet.

I very much like the GD from Speer. I have shot a number of deer with them and they hold together and penetrate adequately.

The ST has been here the longest and has a very good rap sans shedding its Jacket as Andrew mentioned. Defensively in the 10 I run the Silvertip's. But the GDs would and could very well be even a better choice.

I'll use my XTP's for the woods! I am working up loads for my 10 with the 200XTP at top vel/accuracy in a 6" KKM barrel for hunting /trail duty. I will surpass its top rated vel. If that proves a problem I will drop to the tougher 180G...

CW

Jitterbug
05-02-2012, 07:04
After having attempted to load up a viable self defense load for a 2" .38 Special, I have to say I'm pretty impressed with that 158 XTP, finding ANY bullet that will expand at 2" .38 Special velocity is a challenge.

The 147 grain XTP for the .357 Sig is also impressive, I wonder if it's the exact same bullet available for the 9mm, I'll have to check into that some more, looking at the Hornady website I'd have to guess it is in fact the exact same bullet. At short barreled 9mm velocity it may not do as well.

I can't recall the 155 grain 10mm XTP results that have been obtained in some of the backyard testing done in this forum, but it may well be worth looking into as an "available" 10mm bullet for a self defense load on the streets.

One of the most impressive attributes of the Hornady XTP line is it's availability and price point.

Good luck on finding your Gold dots.

To the OP I'd feel pretty good about either the factory Winchester 175 grain Silver Tip or the Underwood 180 grain Gold Dot for your needs. The factory Hornady loads are no doubt good loads but we know they run a bit on the slow side for 10mm.

swinokur
05-02-2012, 07:50
Good luck on finding your Gold dots.Underwood ammo sells 10mm GD's.

you said Underwood has them. What's the problem finding them?

http://www.underwoodammo.com/10mmauto.aspx

1911ES
05-02-2012, 08:39
Gold Dots... work just fine in my 9mm and .45 .....:whistling:

But also have Winchester Ranger and Hornady Critical Defense FTX.

Jitterbug
05-02-2012, 09:21
Underwood may have them at the moment, but as a component for the hand loader they can be difficult to find.

Stock up when you can.

swinokur
05-02-2012, 09:23
gotcha

gofastman
05-02-2012, 18:49
The 147 grain XTP for the .357 Sig is also impressive, I wonder if it's the exact same bullet available for the 9mm, I'll have to check into that some more, looking at the Hornady website I'd have to guess it is in fact the exact same bullet.
I'd wager it is.


On the XTP's look at what Hornady claims as operating vel for the bullets...

200G is 1300 fps but the 180 is 1600 fps... Thats a tough bullet to provide expected performance at 1600 fps!!!
http://www.helmuthofmann.de/pdf/hornady/17-20_bullets_handgun.pdf

I see 1200 and 1450, respectively.
Mudrush(RIP), mentioned that according to his testing, the bullets themselves are fully capable of staying together at considerably higher velocity than that chart shows.


what exactly is an XTP-FP?

okietom
05-02-2012, 19:45
My opinion is they are all good bullets. Get the lowest priced one. Or all three and have some fun trying to pick your favorite.

Ak.Hiker
05-02-2012, 22:07
what exactly is an XTP-FP?
They make several XTP bullets that are not hollow points. Two of them are for the 357 Magnum. One is a 125 grain FP and the other is a 158 grain FP. I see for the really big stuff they also make a 500 grain FP for the 500 S&W.