ATF to remove CLEO signature requirement for NFA? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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NeverMore1701
04-26-2012, 14:00
That would be pretty cool.

http://www.guns.com/atf-and-doj-remove-cleo-signature.html

stolenphot0
04-26-2012, 14:04
That would be real nice. I can't afford a full-auto but would love to pick up a suppressor or two.

stsai465
04-26-2012, 14:11
Interesting... does this then reduce the incentive for one of those Class III gun trusts people file to avoid CLEO signature requirements?

KalashniKEV
04-26-2012, 14:38
That would be real nice.

How come?

4TS&W
04-26-2012, 14:41
One less hoop to jump through..

Rabbi
04-26-2012, 14:44
1. Given the current climate, chances are it is not a "good" thing at all but a very calculated move to avoid litigation that would cost them far more. The "Cleo" sign off would not hold up to many legal tests. It is a silly thing to include in a Federal law.

2. It never stopped anyone anyways. If forming a trust was too hard for you to get around it, I dont want you to be able to have a machine gun either. :rofl:

spork
04-26-2012, 14:50
In two of the last three cities I have lived in, the cleo had no problem signing my paperwork. However, it will still be nice to have this silly requirement eliminated.

kirgi08
04-26-2012, 14:50
:animlol:

Narkcop
04-26-2012, 14:56
Will never happen

vafish
04-26-2012, 15:16
Interesting... does this then reduce the incentive for one of those Class III gun trusts people file to avoid CLEO signature requirements?

There are still good reasons to create an NFA trust.

1. More then 1 person can be on the trust and use the NFA items. ie you, your wife, and kids can be on the trust.

2. No taxes on inheritance when you die.

3. Persons under 21, but over 18 can be placed on the trust and possess the NFA items that they could not buy from a dealer until they are 21.

eracer
04-26-2012, 15:18
There are still good reasons to create an NFA trust.

1. More then 1 person can be on the trust and use the NFA items. ie you, your wife, and kids can be on the trust.

2. No taxes on inheritance when you die.

3. Persons under 21, but over 18 can be placed on the trust and possess the NFA items that they could not buy from a dealer until they are 21.Phew!

And here I thought I wasted that $500...

stsai465
04-26-2012, 15:27
There are still good reasons to create an NFA trust.

1. More then 1 person can be on the trust and use the NFA items. ie you, your wife, and kids can be on the trust.

2. No taxes on inheritance when you die.

3. Persons under 21, but over 18 can be placed on the trust and possess the NFA items that they could not buy from a dealer until they are 21.
OK good to know. There's a firm local to me willing to do it for $300, so wanted to know if that was still money well spent once I decide to get into the Class III game.

NeverMore1701
04-26-2012, 15:32
I'd still make a trust, I just like the idea of there being less hoops to jump through, instead of more.

racer11
04-26-2012, 15:41
I have wondered about this,,,, When you go the trust route for a NFA item,,does the trust include all your assets or is it just a special trust for the NFA item (s).

or

If there is a already existing trust can a NFA item be added to it.

Rabbi
04-26-2012, 15:43
I have wondered about this,,,, When you go the trust route for a NFA item,,does the trust include all your assets or is it just a special trust for the NFA item (s).

or

If there is a already existing trust can a NFA item be added to it.

You create a trust just to own the NFA item. You can add items to that trust.

M2 Carbine
04-26-2012, 15:47
This just might be the incentive for me to get another MG.

faceplant
04-26-2012, 16:05
Now if they could get rid of the 6-8 month wait time I would be a slightly poorer individual.

NeverMore1701
04-26-2012, 16:07
Now if they could get rid of the 6-8 month wait time I would be a slightly poorer individual.

That would be nice too.

vafish
04-26-2012, 16:10
I have wondered about this,,,, When you go the trust route for a NFA item,,does the trust include all your assets or is it just a special trust for the NFA item (s).

or

If there is a already existing trust can a NFA item be added to it.

The Trust includes whatever you want to put in it, they don't have to be NFA items, could be guns, cars, stocks, your home, ect....

As I understand it, a revocable trust can have items added and taken away as well as trustees added and taken away. But an irrevocable trust is set in stone when signed.

But if you are getting a trust done for an NFA item be sure it is written properly to allow trustees to use the items.

Haldor
04-26-2012, 16:16
Interesting... does this then reduce the incentive for one of those Class III gun trusts people file to avoid CLEO signature requirements?

Perhaps, but a trust is still a better way to go. Biggest advantage to a trust is that any trustee can use the NFA items. If you have an individual Form 4 then you have to be present for anyone else to possess or use the NFA item. This also means you have to keep the NFA items in a safe which only you have the combination to.

My wife and I have a trust and when my kids get old enough they will become trustees also. There will also be no need to transfer them to my kids when the time comes.

I used Quicken Will-Maker to create my trust and it was no problem. The AFT accepted it without any question.

One thing about a trust is that it has to have an asset in it before it becomes valid. I put my G17 threaded barrel in the trust before I bought my first suppressor.

I don't see any reason to do an individual Form 4 transfer even without the CLEO sign-off.

P.S. I am using this particular trust for NFA items only.

eracer
04-26-2012, 16:19
I have wondered about this,,,, When you go the trust route for a NFA item,,does the trust include all your assets or is it just a special trust for the NFA item (s).

or

If there is a already existing trust can a NFA item be added to it.
You can put anything you want into your 'NFA' trust. A trust is just a trust. The 'NFA' trust merely contains language that delineates how NFA items should be handled by the individuals who are party to the trust.

For example, some people put all their firearms into a single trust. Common wisdom is that Title II firearms should be kept separate, and in fact, that it's a good idea to establish a separate bank account for the purchase of any item in the trust.

berto62
04-26-2012, 16:30
If they are going to do anything I would much rather have them reopen the registry to new full autos

TSAX
04-26-2012, 16:49
One less hoop/barrier to jump through, there's a good chance of this happening, Id say at least 50/50.






:50cal:

stolenphot0
04-26-2012, 17:41
Foregoing my future purchase of any full-auto, would a trust be worth it for just getting suppressors for me? Possibly in the future to let my daughters use them when I am not around? That is many years away (they are 7&9) but just curious.

this is not something I have ever looked deeply into. I am just now starting to think about suppressors for my .22 and possibly getting a .45 and suppress it.

KML
04-26-2012, 19:18
What I have heard was BATF was going to do away with Corp/Trust transfers because someone who would be denied could be on a corp or trust and they would not know about them.Even if they have no access to the weapons.Plus someone could sell a corp to someone else and there would be no transfer to the new owners or in a trust if the original owner dies a trustee takes over.The owners of Small Arms Review magazine start a NFA org to work with ATF and they are the reason the Cleo will be going away.They showed atf how many cleo would not sign,even if state law allowed and how some cities would not allow cleo to sign.It could happen anyday or next year or two years from now,but ATF has agreed to do away with the cleo.For now there will be no change in corp/trust transfers,but no decision on them until they see what happens with no Cleo transfers.
Kevin

Spiffums
04-26-2012, 19:37
Interesting... does this then reduce the incentive for one of those Class III gun trusts people file to avoid CLEO signature requirements?

I think the trust is better because you only have to pay once. You can leave it to your heirs and they wont get bite in the butt if they aren't really up on the ins and outs of Class 3.

Dennis in MA
04-26-2012, 20:30
In MAss, you still need a state permit issued by your CLEO, but this would make my life easier. Hmmmm. Full auto tends to increase in price faster than inflation. A good parking spot for some $.