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IhRedrider
04-28-2012, 21:15
This question is for Believers. Not interested in what the atheists have to say on this particular issue.

When you answer this question please explain why you believe what you say. Thanks

What day do you consider is the Sabbath and why?

If you wish to share, please explain how you Honor the Sabbath.

WS6
04-28-2012, 21:38
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18874961&postcount=1

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18890637&postcount=51

NMG26
04-28-2012, 21:45
This question is for Believers. Not interested in what the atheists have to say on this particular issue.

When you answer this question please explain why you believe what you say. Thanks

What day do you consider is the Sabbath and why?

If you wish to share, please explain how you Honor the Sabbath.

Sabbath? What kind of word is that anyways? I'm a believer, but I have no Sabbath. Why? Sounds like a Jewish thing. I'm not Jewish.

Tilley
04-28-2012, 23:14
I'm a believer, but I have no Sabbath.

Yeah, it's one of those pesky "10 Commandments" thing...







I observe it on Sunday. I don't know if God is that particular on Saturday or Sunday as long as you set aside a day to rest and spend with loved ones and worship.

I work every other Saturday and Sunday, so sometimes my "Sabbath" may not even fall there.

Everyday should be a day of worship.:supergrin:

Kingarthurhk
04-28-2012, 23:24
I believe in the Severnth Day Sabbath because of scripture:

Genesis 2:1-2, "<sup>1</sup> Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
<sup id="en-NIV-33" class="versenum">2</sup> By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. <sup id="en-NIV-34" class="versenum">3</sup> Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done."

The Sabbath was established at creation as the sign of God's creative power. He blessed it and made it holy.

Before God descended upon Sinai and wrote the 10 commandments with his own hand as we see in:

Exodus 31:18, "When the LORD finished speaking to Moses on Mount Sinai, he gave him the two tablets of the Testimony, the tablets of stone inscribed by the finger of God."

The examples of God counseling to remember His Holy Day can be seen as follows:


Exodus 5:4-5, “<sup>4 </sup>Then the king of Egypt said to them, “Mosesand Aaron, why do you take the people from their work? Get back to yourlabor.” <sup>5 </sup>And Pharaoh said, “Look, the people of the land aremany now, and you make them restfrom their labor!”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

The term “rest” used by Pharaoh in theoriginal language is built on the word Sabbath. This was well before Sinai, and evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup>Commandment observance.<o:p></o:p>

Exodus 16:4-5, “<sup>4</sup>Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will raindown bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gatherenough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they willfollow my instructions. <sup>5</sup> On the sixth day they are to prepare whatthey bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”

Exodus 16:21-30, “<sup>21</sup>Eachmorning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, itmelted away. <sup>22</sup> On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—twoomers<sup>[</sup><sup>b</sup> (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1970b)<sup>]</sup> for each person—and theleaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. <sup>23</sup> He saidto them, “This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbathrest, a holy sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil whatyou want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>24</sup> So they saved it untilmorning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. <sup>25</sup>“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the LORD. You willnot find any of it on the ground today. <sup>26</sup> Six days you are togather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>27</sup> Nevertheless, some ofthe people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. <sup>28</sup>Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you<sup>[</sup><sup>c</sup> (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1976c)<sup>]</sup> refuse to keep my commands andmy instructions? <sup>29</sup> Bear in mind that the LORD has given you theSabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyoneis to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” <sup>30</sup>So the people rested on the seventh day.”

Here we have more evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup> Commandment well beforeSinai.

Spoken by God Himself as he descended on mount Sinai, and written by His very finger we find the 4th Commandment:

Exodus 20:8-11,"
<sup>8</sup>“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. <sup>9</sup> Six days you shalllabor and do all your work, <sup>10</sup> but the seventh day is a sabbath tothe LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your sonor daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor anyforeigner residing in your towns. <sup>11</sup> For in six days the LORD madethe heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested onthe seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

It is the only one of the 10 that God clearly said to REMEMBER. Further, He refers back to Genesis 2, where he made the Seventh Day Holy after creation.

What did Jesus have to say about the Sabbath?

Mark 2:23-27, "<sup>23</sup> One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. <sup id="en-NIV-24285" class="versenum">24</sup> The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

<sup id="en-NIV-24286" class="versenum">25</sup> He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need?<sup id="en-NIV-24287" class="versenum">26</sup> In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” <sup id="en-NIV-24288" class="versenum">27</sup> Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.<sup id="en-NIV-24289" class="versenum">28</sup> So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Here we have learned two important things. The Sabbath was made for man, not just Jews. Another, that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Thus, it is the Lord's Day.

Morever, there were no Jews when God made the 7th Day Holy at creation.

Jesus taught us how to keep it Holy:

Matthew 12:1-13, "<sup>1</sup> At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. <sup id="en-NIV-23492" class="versenum">2</sup> When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

<sup id="en-NIV-23493" class="versenum">3</sup> He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? <sup id="en-NIV-23494" class="versenum">4</sup> He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. <sup id="en-NIV-23495" class="versenum">5</sup> Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? <sup id="en-NIV-23496" class="versenum">6</sup> I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. <sup id="en-NIV-23497" class="versenum">7</sup> If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-23497a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+12&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23497a)]</sup> you would not have condemned the innocent. <sup id="en-NIV-23498" class="versenum">8</sup> For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
<sup id="en-NIV-23499" class="versenum">9</sup> Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, <sup id="en-NIV-23500" class="versenum">10</sup> and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”
<sup id="en-NIV-23501" class="versenum">11</sup> He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?<sup id="en-NIV-23502" class="versenum">12</sup> How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” <sup id="en-NIV-23503" class="versenum">13</sup> Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. <sup id="en-NIV-23504" class="versenum">14</sup> But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus."

Luke 6:6-10, "<sup>6</sup> On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. <sup id="en-NIV-25154" class="versenum">7</sup> The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. <sup id="en-NIV-25155" class="versenum">8</sup> But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Get up and stand in front of everyone.” So he got up and stood there.

<sup id="en-NIV-25156" class="versenum">9</sup> Then Jesus said to them, “I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?” <sup id="en-NIV-25157" class="versenum">10</sup> He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He did so, and his hand was completely restored. <sup id="en-NIV-25158" class="versenum">11</sup> But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus."

Jesus referred to the end of time and gave this warning regarding the Sabbath:

Matthew 24:20, "<sup>20</sup> Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. <sup id="en-NIV-23979" class="versenum">21</sup> For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again."

Further, Jesus kept the Sabbath regularly:
Luke 4:16-17, "<sup>16</sup> He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, <sup id="en-NIV-25081" class="versenum">17</sup> and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written"

The Apostles kept the Sabbath:
Acts 17:2-4, " As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, <sup id="en-NIV-27527" class="versenum">3</sup> explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. <sup id="en-NIV-27528" class="versenum">4</sup> Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women."

Acts 13:42-48, "<sup>42</sup> As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath. <sup id="en-NIV-27406" class="versenum">43</sup> When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

<sup id="en-NIV-27407" class="versenum">44</sup> On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. <sup id="en-NIV-27408" class="versenum">45</sup> When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy. They began to contradict what Paul was saying and heaped abuse on him.
<sup id="en-NIV-27409" class="versenum">46</sup> Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. <sup id="en-NIV-27410" class="versenum">47</sup> For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
“‘I have made you<sup class="footnote" value='[f (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-27410f)]'>[f (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2013&version=NIV#fen-NIV-27410f)]</sup> a light for the Gentiles,
that you<sup class="footnote" value='[g (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-27410g)]'>[g (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2013&version=NIV#fen-NIV-27410g)]</sup> may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’<sup class="footnote" value='[h (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-27410h)]'>[h (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2013&version=NIV#fen-NIV-27410h)]</sup>” <sup id="en-NIV-27411" class="versenum">48</sup> When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed."

Here we Gentile converts keeping the Sabbath.

The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon that day. See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4,11.

God tells us that when the earth is made new again, everyone will worship Him on the Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:22-23, "<sup>22</sup> “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the LORD, “so will your name and descendants endure. <sup id="en-NIV-18946" class="versenum">23</sup> From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the LORD. "<sup id="en-NIV-18947" class="versenum"></sup>

As to the weekly cycle:

The calendar has not been changed so as to confuse the days of the week. We can be positive that our seventh day is the same day Jesus observed when He was here. Pope Gregory XIII did make a calendar change in 1582, but it did not interfere with the weekly cycle. Our present Gregorian calendar was named after him when he made that small change in 1582.

What did Pope Gregory do to the calendar? Before 1582 the Julian calendar had been in effect, instituted by Julius Ceasar about 46 B.C. and named after him. But the Julian calendar had calculated the length of the year as 365 1/4 days, and the year is actually eleven minutes less than 365 1/4 days. Those eleven minutes accumulated, and by 1582 the numbering of the calendar was ten days out of harmony with the solar system. Gregory simply dropped those ten days out of the numbering of the calendar. It was Thursday, October 4, 1582, and the next day, Friday, should have been October 5. But Gregory made it October 15 instead, dropping exactly ten days to bring the calendar back into harmony with the heavenly bodies.

Were the days of the week confused? No. Friday still followed Thursday, and Saturday still followed Friday. The same seventh day remained, and the weekly cycle was not disturbed in the least. When we keep the seventh day on Saturday, we are observing the same day Jesus kept, and He did it every week according to Luke 4:16 (http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Luke%204.16).

So, the Seventh Day is still the Sabbath.


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Kingarthurhk
04-28-2012, 23:25
Sabbath? What kind of word is that anyways? I'm a believer, but I have no Sabbath. Why? Sounds like a Jewish thing. I'm not Jewish.

The Sabbath was established by God at creation 2,300 years before there was such thing as a "Jew".

WASR10
04-29-2012, 00:08
The Law given by Moses, who received it from God at Mt. Sinai, governed every aspect of the Hebrew life. Religious, social, cultural, political, and judicial decisions were all made based upon the Law. Part of this covenant was a command to set aside the last day of the week in remembrance of God’s mercy in delivering the Hebrews from Egyptian bondage. This day was called the Sabbath. The word sabbath means “to desist,” “cease,” or “rest.” On the Sabbath day, followers were to rest and not work.

I define the Sabbath the way it is defined in the Old Testament: the last day of the week; a day that was once recognized by a specific people at a specific time for a specific purpose.

NMG26
04-29-2012, 06:30
The Law given by Moses, who received it from God at Mt. Sinai, governed every aspect of the Hebrew life. Religious, social, cultural, political, and judicial decisions were all made based upon the Law. Part of this covenant was a command to set aside the last day of the week in remembrance of God’s mercy in delivering the Hebrews from Egyptian bondage. This day was called the Sabbath. The word sabbath means “to desist,” “cease,” or “rest.” On the Sabbath day, followers were to rest and not work.

I define the Sabbath the way it is defined in the Old Testament: the last day of the week; a day that was once recognized by a specific people at a specific time for a specific purpose.

Very good.

Those in the dogmatic following of religion will never know the true freedom of the "believer". I think this thread should be called "Question for followers".

We all follow something, for a time, and the believer is free to grow out of the following, and allow his faith to change as he grows.

Following the heart is stifled by doctrine that does not allow freedom. Religion is what keeps mankind from listening to, and following the voice of God.

NMG26
04-29-2012, 06:45
The Sabbath was established by God at creation 2,300 years before there was such thing as a "Jew".

So it took God 2,300 years to have someone write His desire down?

Reasonably you can see that any charismatic, could have become the voice for God. Your "Word of God" is part of an archaic religion. That archaic religion has changed the world, but it has it's flaws. That is why Jesus has been become the new "Word of God". The whole Jesus as, the "sacrifice for mankind", is based on the archaic Jewish religion.

You don't need a book to hear God.
People intuitively know this and that is why they leave the church. Praise God!

Kingarthurhk
04-29-2012, 09:29
So it took God 2,300 years to have someone write His desire down?

Reasonably you can see that any charismatic, could have become the voice for God. Your "Word of God" is part of an archaic religion. That archaic religion has changed the world, but it has it's flaws. That is why Jesus has been become the new "Word of God". The whole Jesus as, the "sacrifice for mankind", is based on the archaic Jewish religion.

You don't need a book to hear God.
People intuitively know this and that is why they leave the church. Praise God!

No. It was known before Sinai:

Exodus 5:4-5, “<sup>4 </sup>Then the king of Egypt said to them, “Mosesand Aaron, why do you take the people from their work? Get back to yourlabor.” <sup>5 </sup>And Pharaoh said, “Look, the people of the land aremany now, and you make them restfrom their labor!”<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

The term “rest” used by Pharaoh in theoriginal language is built on the word Sabbath. This was well before Sinai, and evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup>Commandment observance.<o:p></o:p>

Exodus 16:4-5, “<sup>4</sup>Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will raindown bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gatherenough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they willfollow my instructions. <sup>5</sup> On the sixth day they are to prepare whatthey bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”

Exodus 16:21-30, “<sup>21</sup>Eachmorning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, itmelted away. <sup>22</sup> On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—twoomers<sup>[</sup><sup>b</sup> (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1970b)<sup>]</sup> for each person—and theleaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. <sup>23</sup> He saidto them, “This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbathrest, a holy sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil whatyou want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>24</sup> So they saved it untilmorning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. <sup>25</sup>“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the LORD. You willnot find any of it on the ground today. <sup>26</sup> Six days you are togather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>27</sup> Nevertheless, some ofthe people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. <sup>28</sup>Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you<sup>[</sup><sup>c</sup> (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1976c)<sup>]</sup> refuse to keep my commands andmy instructions? <sup>29</sup> Bear in mind that the LORD has given you theSabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyoneis to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” <sup>30</sup>So the people rested on the seventh day.”

Here we have more evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup> Commandment well beforeSinai.

IhRedrider
04-29-2012, 09:30
Tilley,
You answered, Thanks for sharing, and now I have a few more questions that I would like to hear your answers to. They will be in red in your statement below.



Yeah, it's one of those pesky "10 Commandments" thing...







I observe it on Sunday. I don't know if God is that particular on Saturday or Sunday as long as you set aside a day to rest and spend with loved ones and worship. Do you think that it is significant the God said "You have six days each week for your ordinary work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God."

I work every other Saturday and Sunday, so sometimes my "Sabbath" may not even fall there.

Everyday should be a day of worship.Every day should be a day of worship. " “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one![b] 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

6 “And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. 8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates."

Always remember that if you follow God and not man, you are an honorable man and a brother to other honorable men. Our task is not to agree with what man says, but to do what God says.

NMG26
04-29-2012, 09:39
Tilley,

Always remember that if you follow God and not man, you are an honorable man and a brother to other honorable men. Our task is not to agree with what man says, but to do what God says.

The voice of elitism speaks.
The voice that will always, and only, separate mankind.

What you forget is that man wrote the book you are talking about.

Honorable men follow God without a book of doctrine all the time, every day.........but you must separate.

NMG26
04-29-2012, 09:48
No. It was known before Sinai:

Exodus 5:4-5, “

Exodus 16:4-5,

Exodus 16:21-30, “<sup>2</sup>
<sup>24</sup>
Here we have more evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup> Commandment well beforeSinai.

The 5 books of Moses should all confirm the same thing. Written in the same culture, time, and religion. I don't see how you can call that proof of anything other then, "the Jewish religion teaches this".

God's commandments are intuitively known, and in the heart of mankind. "The law kills; the spirit gives life".

Kingarthurhk
04-29-2012, 09:51
The voice of elitism speaks.
The voice that will always, and only, separate mankind.

What you forget is that man wrote the book you are talking about.

Honorable men follow God without a book of doctrine all the time, every day.........but you must separate.


Isaiah 8:19-20, "<sup class="versenum">19 </sup>When someone tells you to consult <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17827AX))'></sup> mediums and spiritists, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17827AY))'></sup> who whisper and mutter, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17827AZ))'></sup> should not a people inquire <sup class="crossreference" value='(BA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17827BA))'></sup> of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>Consult God’s instruction <sup class="crossreference" value='(BB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17828BB))'></sup> and the testimony of warning. <sup class="crossreference" value='(BC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17828BC))'></sup> If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light <sup class="crossreference" value='(BD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17828BD))'></sup> of dawn."

Galatians 6:1-10, " <sup> </sup>I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29064M))'></sup> you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29064N))'></sup> — <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29065O))'></sup> and are trying to pervert <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29065P))'></sup> the gospel of Christ. <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29066Q))'></sup> let them be under God’s curse! <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29066R))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29067S))'></sup> let them be under God’s curse!
<sup class="versenum">10 </sup>Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29068T))'></sup> If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ."

Hebrews 4:1-12, "Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30016A))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30017a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30017a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30017B))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30018b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30018b)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30018C))'></sup>

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30019c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30019c)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30019D))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30020E))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30021F))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”<sup class="footnote" value='[d (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30022d)]'>[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30022d)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30022G))'></sup>


<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>For if Joshua had given them rest, <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30023H))'></sup> God would not have spoken <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30023I))'></sup> later about another day. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30025e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30025e)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30025J))'></sup> just as God did from his. <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30025K))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30026L))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For the word of God <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027M))'></sup> is alive <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027N))'></sup> and active. <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027O))'></sup> Sharper than any double-edged sword, <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027P))'></sup> it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027Q))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30028R))'></sup> Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account."

Brasso
04-29-2012, 12:59
God's commandments are intuitively known, and in the heart of mankind. "The law kills; the spirit gives life".

Perhaps you should have prefaced this question for those who believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Cause this guy is not on the same page as you.

Kingarthurhk
04-29-2012, 13:45
Yeah, it's one of those pesky "10 Commandments" thing...







I observe it on Sunday. I don't know if God is that particular on Saturday or Sunday as long as you set aside a day to rest and spend with loved ones and worship.

I work every other Saturday and Sunday, so sometimes my "Sabbath" may not even fall there.

Everyday should be a day of worship.:supergrin:


Well, details matter. For instance, these children think they are playing with baby kittens.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/AmandaJBaker/Misc%20Stuff/Skunks.jpg

Tilley
04-29-2012, 15:27
Well, details matter. For instance, these children think they are playing with baby kittens.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/AmandaJBaker/Misc%20Stuff/Skunks.jpg

Christ did his Father's work, even on the Sabbath, did he not?

Vic Hays
04-29-2012, 16:16
Christ did his Father's work, even on the Sabbath, did he not?

He sure did. He did not do this for Himself, but for others.

Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?
58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward.
58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;
58:10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday:
58:11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.
58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Tilley
04-29-2012, 19:42
He sure did. He did not do this for Himself, but for others.

What I do for a living I do for others, and a lot of times I put myself at risk.

Vic Hays
04-29-2012, 19:47
What I do for a living I do for others, and a lot of times I put myself at risk.

Good for you. I am glad you are a compassionate individual.

Jesus healed during the week as well as the Sabbath. That did not make the Sabbath less holy or less set aside as a special day by God.

IhRedrider
04-29-2012, 19:52
Brasso,
You are right, I try to ignore those who aren't even on the same page.

IhRedrider
04-29-2012, 20:05
" “Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 You have six days each week for your ordinary work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God."

I find it significant that God calls out that we have 6 days for OUR ordinary work.

There is no doubt that the Son of God did work on the Sabbath. I would have to ask who"s work did he do on the Sabbath?

The same point could be made of Joshua at Jericho. The Israelite s Marched around Jericho for 7 days in a row. By my figuring, one of those days had to be the Sabbath. But again I would ask, who's work were they doing?

In the end, I don't think that I have the right or ability to judge anyone's actions on the Sabbath. I do however believe that there is a right and wrong way to do things. I also believe that the Sabbath is a very important thing to God, otherwise it wouldn't have made the top ten. I would encourage all believers to search out the truth from God, then follow what he says. To those who don't believe in God or who don't want to follow what he says, than do whatever you feel is right in your own heart.

juggy4711
04-29-2012, 20:05
Sabbath? What kind of word is that anyways? I'm a believer, but I have no Sabbath. Why? Sounds like a Jewish thing. I'm not Jewish.

Word

The Sabbath was established by God at creation 2,300 years before there was such thing as a "Jew".

Could you give me a more detailed time frame on that?

Perhaps you should have prefaced this question for those who believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Cause this guy is not on the same page as you.

Now the qualifier comes in, not those that believe in a God but those that believe in the same God you do whether or not they believe that God to be the same one you do, and whether or not they require the same beliefs. Baffling.

Bible passages are proof of nothing except what Bible passages say and then only what you think they mean.

Brasso
04-29-2012, 20:36
Ah yes. And 2+2=5. If I want it to?

No thanks.

The Bible is very clear. It only gets complicated and vague when you don't like what it says.

Snapper2
04-29-2012, 22:41
What was the Noahic Covenant for and who was it for? The Sabbath wasnt mentioned was it? If not,why?

NMG26
04-30-2012, 04:27
Brasso,
You are right, I try to ignore those who aren't even on the same page.

So if the Holy Spirit is not on the same page as you, you will try to ignore it? This is possible only through doctrine taking the place of the holy spirit. When the holy spirit talks, and it does not agree with your doctrine, you can just ignore it.

I noticed this happening when I was a Christian. Finnally I allowed myself to grow past the doctrine. Some people never do. They live and die according to religion they were born into. It works, but it is limiting.

Brasso
04-30-2012, 08:41
So if the Holy Spirit is not on the same page as you, you will try to ignore it? This is possible only through doctrine taking the place of the holy spirit. When the holy spirit talks, and it does not agree with your doctrine, you can just ignore it.

I noticed this happening when I was a Christian. Finnally I allowed myself to grow past the doctrine. Some people never do. They live and die according to religion they were born into. It works, but it is limiting.



Not at all.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is revealed in the Bible. Without the Bible there is no knowledge of Him. Within the pages of the Bible He gave us instructions on how to worhip Him. If you ignore these, then how are you worshipping Him? You're not. You are worshipping someone else by default.

He didn't give us His instructions "just becasue". The entire Bible is about repenting to His Ways. Ignore that and you have nothing.

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

NMG26
04-30-2012, 17:28
Not at all.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is revealed in the Bible. Without the Bible there is no knowledge of Him. Within the pages of the Bible He gave us instructions on how to worhip Him. If you ignore these, then how are you worshipping Him? You're not. You are worshipping someone else by default.

He didn't give us His instructions "just becasue". The entire Bible is about repenting to His Ways. Ignore that and you have nothing.

Right.

Christians say it is about the "relationship". The relationship you are describing is a relationship with doctrine.

Doctrine is in your mind, and not God's voice.



"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Jesus is talking about Israel. Jesus is essentially saying the same thing I am.

The verse prior:

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me."

Who do you think "this people" is?



"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

When you have a relationship with God.......not doctrine, then God teaches you of your own heart. God works with the heart of mankind. This is God's love for man.

The next verse:

"I the LORD search the heart, [I] try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings. "


"Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews."

You miss use the intent. Jesus was born in a culture that taught that "salvation is of the Jews". He was teaching something different though.

The next verse.

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

To worship God in spirit and in truth has nothing to do with being a certain sect, or religion, with it's doctrines and dogmas. They killed Jesus because he was not lining up with the teachings of the day. "Christ, you know it ain't easy".

I know. I am wasting my time. Sometimes I just enjoy pontificating.

Peace.

Kingarthurhk
04-30-2012, 18:40
What was the Noahic Covenant for and who was it for? The Sabbath wasnt mentioned was it? If not,why?

Genesis 9:8-17, "<sup>8</sup> Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: <sup id="en-NIV1984-215" class="versenum">9</sup> “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you <sup id="en-NIV1984-216" class="versenum">10</sup> and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. <sup id="en-NIV1984-217" class="versenum">11</sup> I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

<sup id="en-NIV1984-218" class="versenum">12</sup> And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: <sup id="en-NIV1984-219" class="versenum">13</sup> I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. <sup id="en-NIV1984-220" class="versenum">14</sup> Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, <sup id="en-NIV1984-221" class="versenum">15</sup> I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. <sup id="en-NIV1984-222" class="versenum">16</sup> Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.” <sup id="en-NIV1984-223" class="versenum">17</sup> So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

That is the covenant. There won't be a world wide flood that destroys all life again. The sign of that covenant is a rainbow.

I really don't see your point.

Snapper2
04-30-2012, 18:52
Genesis 9:8-17, "<SUP>8</SUP> Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: <SUP id=en-NIV1984-215 class=versenum>9</SUP> “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you <SUP id=en-NIV1984-216 class=versenum>10</SUP> and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. <SUP id=en-NIV1984-217 class=versenum>11</SUP> I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be cut off by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

<SUP id=en-NIV1984-218 class=versenum>12</SUP> And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: <SUP id=en-NIV1984-219 class=versenum>13</SUP> I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. <SUP id=en-NIV1984-220 class=versenum>14</SUP> Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, <SUP id=en-NIV1984-221 class=versenum>15</SUP> I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. <SUP id=en-NIV1984-222 class=versenum>16</SUP> Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.” <SUP id=en-NIV1984-223 class=versenum>17</SUP> So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

That is the covenant. There won't be a world wide flood that destroys all life again. The sign of that covenant is a rainbow.

I really don't see your point.
Sorry King, I should have said the seven laws God gave Noah. Was the Sabbath left out? Thanks

Kingarthurhk
04-30-2012, 19:04
Sorry King, I should have said the seven laws God gave Noah. Was the Sabbath left out? Thanks

You might have to clarify what you mean.

Snapper2
04-30-2012, 19:22
You might have to clarify what you mean.
Gensis9:1-8 seems more like instructions or commands. Why was the Sabbath day commandment and other commandments saved for later?

Vic Hays
05-01-2012, 10:11
Gensis9:1-8 seems more like instructions or commands. Why was the Sabbath day commandment and other commandments saved for later?

How do you know they were not? Just because they didn't make it into the Bible before Sinai doesn't mean that they were not known.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Morality was certainly known. They knew that sin was against God.

Genesis 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

Snapper2
05-01-2012, 10:50
How do you know they were not? Just because they didn't make it into the Bible before Sinai doesn't mean that they were not known.

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I agree with you on this Vic. Just hoping to learn more by asking the question. The commandments at Sinai seem to deal with bringing man up to par with God's character. I was wondering if God's laws to Noah had anything to do with the "destroyed by flood" earth. I read in this chapter where some things changed after the flood.

IhRedrider
05-01-2012, 15:21
So if the Holy Spirit is not on the same page as you, you will try to ignore it? This is possible only through doctrine taking the place of the holy spirit. When the holy spirit talks, and it does not agree with your doctrine, you can just ignore it.


No, only a fool would jump to this analogy. I try to ignore foolish men.

The OP was about the Sabbath and the observance of it. Not about "what does some random idiot feel about how much better they are now that they've progressed beyond the word of God". If you wish to discuss something else, feel free. You can start your very own post about anything you like.

Brasso
05-01-2012, 15:55
Christians say it is about the "relationship". The relationship you are describing is a relationship with doctrine.

Doctrine is in your mind, and not God's voice.

Jibber Jabber.

God revealed Himself to us through His commandments. They reflect the heart of God. To ignore them is to ignore God. They are His words. His desire. He wouldn't have told Israel to keep them as perpetual commandments if He didn't want them to keep them. You are deceived if you think you know God apart from His commandments.

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Elohim has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

If anyone is ignoring His Torah, they had better think long and hard about those 3 verses.

Snapper2
05-01-2012, 16:04
I was raised Baptist. There are several ways I've seen people observe the Sabbath and I believe thats between them and God IMO. The commandment says to keep that day holy. Well to be honest I dont know how to do that without self righteousness.Can I sin the rest of the week?:whistling: I was taught that Jesus is the Rest we enter into and that all days are now holy. but only by Him. I know I could be wrong about this and I surely wont judge you on the way you keep it. Unless of course you embarrassed me over the internet in front of everyone.:supergrin:

Brasso
05-01-2012, 17:39
Well to be honest I dont know how to do that without self righteousness.

I have a secret to tell you.

He wants you to do it. It's a commandment. Feel however you will. Just do it. You'll understand later.

NMG26
05-01-2012, 17:55
..... fool ......foolish........

......idiot

10-4 :wavey:

Vic Hays
05-01-2012, 19:26
I was raised Baptist. There are several ways I've seen people observe the Sabbath and I believe thats between them and God IMO. The commandment says to keep that day holy. Well to be honest I dont know how to do that without self righteousness.Can I sin the rest of the week?:whistling: I was taught that Jesus is the Rest we enter into and that all days are now holy. but only by Him. I know I could be wrong about this and I surely wont judge you on the way you keep it. Unless of course you embarrassed me over the internet in front of everyone.:supergrin:

I think it is an amazing thing that people continue in sin because they would feel self righteous if they stopped. If you were to stop sinning today and never commit another sin you would still be lost without the grace of God.

I keep the Sabbath because it is God's will that I enjoy His blessing on that day. I have time to look up from my round of toil and worry and see the beauty of God's creation around me. I don't deserve it, but it is a shame to waste a perfectly good Sabbath because I don't feel worthy.

juggy4711
05-01-2012, 19:52
...fool...foolish...
... idiot...

10-4 :wavey:

NMG26 and I don't have the same beliefs but we both believe. It's truly a shame more don't appreciate the freedom he was talking about.

...If you were to stop sinning today and never commit another sin you would still be lost without the grace of God.

That isn't freedom.

I keep the Sabbath because it is God's will that I enjoy His blessing on that day. I have time to look up from my round of toil and worry and see the beauty of God's creation around me. I don't deserve it, but it is a shame to waste a perfectly good Sabbath because I don't feel worthy.

You believe all that because you chose to allow a book to convince you of it and judging by the last sentence because you have self esteem issues. My appreciation of God, life and existence is tied to no book, no building, no calendar or day of the weak. It is what I choose to do when I choose to do it. Choice. That is freedom and it's also why you can choose to be so constrained.

NMG26
05-02-2012, 04:18
Jibber Jabber.

You are deceived if you think you know God apart from His commandments.



Yeah, that Moses was a smart one. Apparently he figured out that people will obey without thinking if you call something a "commandment of God".

To know God for me, goes way beyond following God out of fear. You are deceived if you think that no one can know, and love God, free from the the fear based commands, of an archaic religion.

Most people feel a connection to God even though your religion says they can not. Wonder why?

Kingarthurhk
05-02-2012, 05:22
NMG26 and I don't have the same beliefs but we both believe. It's truly a shame more don't appreciate the freedom he was talking about.



That isn't freedom.



You believe all that because you chose to allow a book to convince you of it and judging by the last sentence because you have self esteem issues. My appreciation of God, life and existence is tied to no book, no building, no calendar or day of the weak. It is what I choose to do when I choose to do it. Choice. That is freedom and it's also why you can choose to be so constrained.

Which god? God with a captial "G" gave us 66 books of inspration in a compilation called "The Bible". It is a guide to Him, it speaks of His Character, His actions, and His plans for us.

Do you use a GPS? Why? In your estimation is that cramping your freedom? You are being guided by an outside entity to keep from being lost.

That is what the Bible is for.

Kingarthurhk
05-02-2012, 05:43
Yeah, that Moses was a smart one. Apparently he figured out that people will obey without thinking if you call something a "commandment of God".

To know God for me, goes way beyond following God out of fear. You are deceived if you think that no one can know, and love God, free from the the fear based commands, of an archaic religion.

Most people feel a connection to God even though your religion says they can not. Wonder why?

John 3:16-21, "<sup class="versenum">16 </sup>For God so loved <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26137V))'></sup> the world that he gave <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26137W))'></sup> his one and only Son, <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26137X))'></sup> that whoever believes <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26137Y))'></sup> in him shall not perish but have eternal life. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26137Z))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>For God did not send his Son into the world <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26138AA))'></sup> to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26138AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">18 </sup>Whoever believes in him is not condemned, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26139AC))'></sup> but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26139AD))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>This is the verdict: Light <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26140AE))'></sup> has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26140AF))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26141AG))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">21 </sup>But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

Brasso
05-02-2012, 15:13
Most people feel a connection to God even though your religion says they can not. Wonder why?

And here we are. Right back to the beginning of my comments. He should have prefaced it with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Cause you aren't on the same page. You don't worship the same God.

The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the God of the Bible. He has rules. Don't keep them, don't claim to worship Him.

Kingarthurhk
05-02-2012, 17:31
I agree with you on this Vic. Just hoping to learn more by asking the question. The commandments at Sinai seem to deal with bringing man up to par with God's character. I was wondering if God's laws to Noah had anything to do with the "destroyed by flood" earth. I read in this chapter where some things changed after the flood.

These Commands can be shown to exist before Sinai:


God’s law declared and written in His own hand at Sinai was not simply a lawgiven exclusively to the Jewish nation, it was in existence and known by thepeople of the earth long before Sinai.

Genesis 9:6, “<sup>6</sup> “Whoeversheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.”

Here we see the 6<sup>th</sup> Commandment long before Sinai.

Job 1:8, “<sup>8</sup> Then the LORDsaid to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earthlike him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>

Job 24:13-17, “<sup>13</sup> “Thereare those who rebel against the light,
who do not know its ways
or stay in its paths.
<sup>14</sup> When daylight is gone, themurderer rises up,
kills the poor and needy,
and in the night steals forth like a thief.
<sup>15</sup> The eye of the adultererwatches for dusk;
he thinks, ‘No eye will see me,’
and he keeps his face concealed.
<sup>16</sup> In the dark, thieves breakinto houses,
but by day they shut themselves in;
they want nothing to do with the light.
<sup>17</sup> For all of them, midnight is their morning;
they make friends with the terrors of darkness.”

Here we see the 6<sup>th</sup> Commandment, the 7<sup>th</sup> Commandment,and the 8<sup>th</sup> Commandment long before Sinai.

Genesis 20:1-6, “<sup>1</sup> Now Abraham moved onfrom there into the region of the Negev and lived between Kadesh and Shur. Fora while he stayed in Gerar, <sup>2</sup> and there Abraham said of his wifeSarah, “She is my sister.” Then Abimelek king of Gerar sent for Sarah and tookher. <o:p></o:p>

<sup>3</sup> But Godcame to Abimelek in a dream one night and said to him, “You are as good as deadbecause of the woman you have taken; she is a married woman.” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>4</sup> NowAbimelek had not gone near her, so he said, “Lord, will you destroy an innocentnation? <sup>5</sup> Did he not say to me, ‘She is my sister,’ and didn’t shealso say, ‘He is my brother’? I have done this with a clear conscience andclean hands.” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>6</sup> Then Godsaid to him in the dream, “Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience,and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let youtouch her. <sup>7</sup> Now return the man’s wife, for he is a prophet, and hewill pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may besure that you and all who belong to you will die.”<o:p></o:p>

Long before Sinai, God was very serious about the 7<sup>th</sup>Commandment.<o:p></o:p>

Genesis 35:2-5, “<sup>2</sup> So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Get ridof the foreign gods you have with you, and purify yourselves and change yourclothes. <sup>3</sup> Then come, let us go up to Bethel, where I will build analtar to God, who answered me in the day of my distress and who has been withme wherever I have gone.” <sup>4</sup> So they gave Jacob all the foreign godsthey had and the rings in their ears, and Jacob buried them under the oak atShechem. <sup>5</sup> Then they set out, and the terror of God fell on thetowns all around them so that no one pursued them.”

Herewe see Jacob telling those among his household to observe the 1<sup>st</sup>and 2cnd Commandments long before Sinai.

Genesis 2:1-3, “<sup>1</sup> Thus theheavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. <o:p></o:p>

<sup>2</sup> By the seventh day Godhad finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested fromall his work. <sup>3</sup> Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy,because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.”

Here we see the 4<sup>th</sup> Commandment at the foundation of creationlong before Sinai, and even before sin entered the world.

Exodus 5:4-5, “<sup>4 </sup>Then the king of Egypt said to them, “Mosesand Aaron, why do you take the people from their work? Get back to yourlabor.” <sup>5 </sup>And Pharaoh said, “Look, the people of the land aremany now, and you make them restfrom their labor!”<o:p></o:p>

The term “rest” used by Pharaoh in theoriginal language is built on the word Sabbath. This was well before Sinai, and evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup>Commandment observance.<o:p></o:p>

Exodus 16:4-5, “<sup>4</sup> Then the LORD said to Moses, “I will raindown bread from heaven for you. The people are to go out each day and gatherenough for that day. In this way I will test them and see whether they willfollow my instructions. <sup>5</sup> On the sixth day they are to prepare whatthey bring in, and that is to be twice as much as they gather on the other days.”

Exodus 16:21-30, “<sup>21</sup> Eachmorning everyone gathered as much as they needed, and when the sun grew hot, itmelted away. <sup>22</sup> On the sixth day, they gathered twice as much—twoomers<sup>[</sup><sup>b</sup> (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1970b)<sup>]</sup> for each person—and theleaders of the community came and reported this to Moses. <sup>23</sup> He saidto them, “This is what the LORD commanded: ‘Tomorrow is to be a day of sabbathrest, a holy sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil whatyou want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.’” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>24</sup> So they saved it untilmorning, as Moses commanded, and it did not stink or get maggots in it. <sup>25</sup>“Eat it today,” Moses said, “because today is a sabbath to the LORD. You willnot find any of it on the ground today. <sup>26</sup> Six days you are togather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will not be any.” <o:p></o:p>

<sup>27</sup> Nevertheless, some ofthe people went out on the seventh day to gather it, but they found none. <sup>28</sup>Then the LORD said to Moses, “How long will you<sup>[</sup><sup>c</sup> (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2016&version=NIV#fen-NIV-1976c)<sup>]</sup> refuse to keep my commands andmy instructions? <sup>29</sup> Bear in mind that the LORD has given you theSabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives you bread for two days. Everyoneis to stay where they are on the seventh day; no one is to go out.” <sup>30</sup>So the people rested on the seventh day.”

Here we have more evidence of the 4<sup>th</sup> Commandment well beforeSinai.

Snapper2
05-02-2012, 18:38
Here we have more evidence of the 4<SUP>th</SUP> Commandment well beforeSinai.

While in Egypt, did the Jews protest having to work or did they work every day? How did they worship while in slavery?I'll try to stay on topic. I know from reading from a few of your post that God's Spirit has given you insight from time to time. This,IMO didnt come from just reading your Bible did it? It had to do with things happening to you and in your life. And from listening. You cant always listen while busy. Another words if your so busy doing the Lord's work(helping those in need etc) you cant always hear. We need time to hear. Does this come from the Sabbath Rest we're talking about? I'm really not as much interested in what day its observed is as I am what this rest is .

Brasso
05-02-2012, 19:14
This is the problem. You don't know what this rest is because you have never partaken of it. At some point you just have to do what He says to do. Even if you don't understand the why of it. There is a blessing attached to all of His commandments.

Isa 58:13 “If you do turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My set-apart day, and shall call the Sabbath ‘a delight,’ the set-apart day of יהוה ‘esteemed,’ and shall esteem it, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words,
Isa 58:14 then you shall delight yourself in יהוה. And I shall cause you to ride on the heights of the earth, and feed you with the inheritance of Yaʽaqoḇ your father. For the mouth of יהוה has spoken!”

Snapper2
05-02-2012, 19:22
This is the problem. You don't know what this rest is because you have never partaken of it. At some point you just have to do what He says to do. Even if you don't understand the why of it. There is a blessing attached to all of His commandments.
No I have not set a day aside, your right Brasso. I do believe that Jesus is my salvation and have been baptized in His name. But no oberserving of a day of the week.

Kingarthurhk
05-02-2012, 19:32
While in Egypt, did the Jews protest having to work or did they work every day? How did they worship while in slavery?I'll try to stay on topic. I know from reading from a few of your post that God's Spirit has given you insight from time to time. This,IMO didnt come from just reading your Bible did it? It had to do with things happening to you and in your life. And from listening. You cant always listen while busy. Another words if your so busy doing the Lord's work(helping those in need etc) you cant always hear. We need time to hear. Does this come from the Sabbath Rest we're talking about? I'm really not as much interested in what day its observed is as I am what this rest is .

I suspect they were forced to work every day considering the mentality of the Pharoh:

Exodus 5:6-9, "<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>That same day Pharaoh gave this order to the slave drivers <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1639I))'></sup> and overseers in charge of the people: <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>“You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1640J))'></sup> let them go and gather their own straw. <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>But require them to make the same number of bricks as before; don’t reduce the quota. <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1641K))'></sup> They are lazy; <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1641L))'></sup> that is why they are crying out, ‘Let us go and sacrifice to our God.’ <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1641M))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>Make the work harder for the people so that they keep working and pay no attention to lies.”

Certainly, they were influenced by the culture of Egypt considering their actions here:

Exodus 32:1-9, "When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2440A))'></sup> they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us gods<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-2440a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+32&version=NIV#fen-NIV-2440a)]</sup> who will go before <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2440B))'></sup> us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2440C))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">2 </sup>Aaron answered them, “Take off the gold earrings <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2441D))'></sup> that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me.” <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>He took what they handed him and made it into an idol <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2443E))'></sup> cast in the shape of a calf, <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2443F))'></sup> fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, “These are your gods,<sup class="footnote" value=''>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+32&version=NIV#fen-NIV-2443b)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2443G))'></sup> Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2443H))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, “Tomorrow there will be a festival <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2444I))'></sup> to the Lord.” <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2445J))'></sup> Afterward they sat down to eat and drink <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2445K))'></sup> and got up to indulge in revelry. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2445L))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">7 </sup>Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2446M))'></sup> have become corrupt. <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2446N))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>They have been quick to turn away <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2447O))'></sup> from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2447P))'></sup> cast in the shape of a calf. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2447Q))'></sup> They have bowed down to it and sacrificed <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2447R))'></sup> to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’

The notes I provided in the post above were from my notes from teaching the Adult Sabbath School. I enjoy teaching. I was asked out of the clear blue sky to be on the lesson teaching schedule. When presented an opportunity for God, I never turn Him down. So, I accepted. I really had never taught the lesson to church body before, I have given sermons. Sermons tend to be rhetorical; unless you are my 8 year old son, then he feels the need to answer.

But, teaching to an audience where things can go completely left field is an interesting experience to say the least. For instance, we are an open congregration and people can come in off the street, and sometimes do.

As to helping others, I find the greatest pleasure doing that, because I know I am doing Jesus' work, and the words He spoke.

[B]Matthew 25:34-40, "“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-24043V))'></sup> prepared for you since the creation of the world. <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-24043W))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">35 </sup>For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-24044X))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">36 </sup>I needed clothes and you clothed me, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-24045Y))'></sup> I was sick and you looked after me, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-24045Z))'></sup> I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-24045AA))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">37 </sup>“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

<sup class="versenum">40 </sup>“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

So, I want to smile at the person no one wants to make eye contact with. I want to pray with the smelly disheveled guy when it comes to partnering up for prayer. I want to shake the hand of person who shows up late to church beacuse they are comming in on faltering legs, not sure why they are stepping ing a church in the first place.

There is an interesting passage in Hebrews about this rest:

Hebrews 4:1-13, "Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30016A))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30017a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30017a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30017B))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30018b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30018b)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30018C))'></sup>

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.”<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30019c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30019c)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30019D))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30020E))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30021F))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”<sup class="footnote" value='[d (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30022d)]'>[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30022d)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30022G))'></sup>


<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>For if Joshua had given them rest, <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30023H))'></sup> God would not have spoken <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30023I))'></sup> later about another day. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works,<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-30025e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-30025e)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30025J))'></sup> just as God did from his. <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30025K))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30026L))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>For the word of God <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027M))'></sup> is alive <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027N))'></sup> and active. <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027O))'></sup> Sharper than any double-edged sword, <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027P))'></sup> it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30027Q))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30028R))'></sup> Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account."

Hebrews shows us two things. One there is still the Sabbath rest, but it also shows us the spritual nature of God's word.

The Sabbath was at the very beginning of the world, and will be in the earth made new a day of worship and communion with God.

I find my Sabbath blessing does two things:

1. It gives me physical rest, because I tend to be a workaholic. I'll work 12 hours, and still come here to do what I believe is God's work.

2. It gives me spritiual rest, and allows me to have a 24 hour period to focus on God very specifically: both corporately and personally.

As to the scripture I usually post here, it is because the Holy Spirit brings the passage to mind, and I go and get it and post it here.

Luke 12:11, "When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25471L))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”

I am always very happy to answer any questions you have to the best of my ability.

As to listening to God, there is a very good thing to do when in prayer and meditation of scripture.

Psalms 46:10, "He says, “Be still, and know that I am God;"

And listen for that still small voice:

1 Kings 19:11=13, "<sup> </sup>He replied, “I have been very zealous <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9398P))'></sup> for the Lord God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9398Q))'></sup> torn down your altars, <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9398R))'></sup> and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9398S))'></sup> and now they are trying to kill me too.”
<sup class="versenum">11 </sup>The Lord said, “Go out and stand on the mountain <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9399T))'></sup> in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9399U))'></sup>
Then a great and powerful wind <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9399V))'></sup> tore the mountains apart and shattered <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9399W))'></sup> the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>After the earthquake came a fire, <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9400X))'></sup> but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9400Y))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">13 </sup>When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-9401Z))'></sup> and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

juggy4711
05-02-2012, 21:23
Which god? God with a captial "G" gave us 66 books of inspration in a compilation called "The Bible". It is a guide to Him, it speaks of His Character, His actions, and His plans for us.

Do you use a GPS? Why? In your estimation is that cramping your freedom? You are being guided by an outside entity to keep from being lost.

That is what the Bible is for.

No. Man with a capital M gave us 66 books of inspiration in a compilation called the Bible on which man can't agree about the meaning but you chose one interpretation to be the end all be all truth. It's is a guide to whatever you choose to let it be a guide to.

And no I do not use GPS. Don't even have a smart phone. I use these outdated things called maps and decide for myself what the best course is. Crazy I know.

ETA I do not get where this desire to be controlled, compelled and commanded comes from?

rgregoryb
05-02-2012, 21:50
Brasso,
You are right, I try to ignore those who aren't even on the same page.

which requires another question...why did you even ask the initial question to "believers" if you are only searching for answers to validate your brand of theism?

IhRedrider
05-03-2012, 21:10
Apparently your reading comprehension is as bad as his. The topic was the Sabbath, not his personal opinion contained in his rambling post.

If you noticed, which you probably did not due to your myopic understanding of English, I have not attacked or judged anyone on this issue of the Sabbath, which is the issue of the OP. I have asked people, who have a different belief than I do, why they believe what they say they believe. This is what discussion is about.

As far as the OP, what is your opinion on the day of the Sabbath? Or are you an athiest who just wishes to blither on about something you profess to not even believe anything about?