Glock generations, "gills", 2- & 3-pin frames, and other helpful photos

[DJ Niner]

This thread is intended to show photographic examples of frame generation comparisons, common-use Glock terminology, less-common variations, and other things that are helpful to folks who may have never heard of or seen certain Glock-related items.

Below is a comparison photo of the various 9mm full-size frame generations with labels (right-click to open a larger, more detailed version in a new tab or window):

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9457/glockframegenerations.jpg

Tags: Glock frames, Glock generations, Glock frame comparison, Glock frame generations, Glock frame styles, Glock frame types, Glock Gen1, Glock Gen2, Glock Gen3, Glock Gen3 RTF2, Glock Gen4, Glock Generation 1, Glock Generation 2, Glock Generation 3, Glock Generation 4, Glock photo, Glock frames photo, Glock frame types photo.

[DJ Niner]

Comparison between full-size 9mm Gen3 2-pin and 3-pin frames:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/4232/glock2pin3pinframes.jpg

Tags: Glock 2-pin frame, Glock 3-pin frame, 2-pin comparison, 3-pin comparison, Glock frame photo.

[DJ Niner]

This is a Glock Gen3 RTF2 (rough textured frame) Glock 17 in 9mm, with the "fish gill" style slide serrations. These have been called fish gills, gills, gillies, crescent serration models, curved serration models, and shark gills:

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1396/gen3rtf2.jpg

[tango44]

Tagged! Great post!

[TSAX]

Tagged! Great post!

Definitely a great post and reference :wavey:










:50cal:

[21/4life]

Great info. I was just thinking about all the different Gens. I was at a small shop over the weekend the owner and were talking about the Fde Glocks. Then he threw me a curve and said the Gen 3 & Gen 4 would never be legal in Kommunist Kali. I bought a 22 rtf w/n Gills in November so I started to wonder what Gen it is.

[DJ Niner]

Gen1 Glock 17L with the less-common factory ported barrel. Serial number prefix "ED", manufactured in December of 1988. Although this is an early Glock, it is actually rather late in the Gen1 Glock lineup, with the Gen2 G17 model starting production just 3-4 months after this one was produced.

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6383/glock17lportedsm.jpg


A side view of the barrel ports with the barrel removed from the slide:

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5498/glock17lports.jpg

[jlseate]

Great thread. Thanks for the knowledge!

[average nobody]

nice thread

[Leathernecker]

I think future additions for this thread should also clarify what constitutes a Generation 2.5.

I've seen "transition models" of full size frames that were without the light rail OR didn't have checkering in the finger grooves. I have yet to see one that has both shortcomings.

More importantly, I think that clarifying what constitutes a Gen 2.5 in the sub compacts would be important since so many people seem to think that their G26, G27, or G33 is a "Gen 2.5" just because it doesn't have a light rail. It has NEVER had a light rail, so how can you claim that it is somehow missing and worthy of the mid-generation moniker?


As for what constitutes a "real" Gen 2.5 in the subs would be something missing that they eventually ended up with, like the checkering in the finger grooves. I've seen it on the 9mm and the 40 S&W, I assume that there are possibly G33's out there that are missing the checkering.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h109/soilantgreen/G26%20BYU/IMAG0543.jpg

I hope more people post up early subcompacts so we can have good examples of models that were made during the transition period from 2nd to 3rd Generation pistols. And we might finally dispel the urge to call every Gen 3 subcompact a Gen 2.5.

[DJ Niner]

I guess I haven't seen that trend (calling all Subs Gen2.5 guns), but given that these "definitions" are pretty much all made-up by groups of users (except for the Gen4, which Glock so kindly identified by stamping it on the newest guns), I guess I can understand a bit of confusion on the subject.

I'm working on getting my hands on a no-checkering-in-the-grooves subcompact so I can make the same type of photo as the top one in this thread; I already have a Gen3 and Gen4 G26, so once I locate an older one I can snap a few pics and get a post up on that subject. As far as the larger frames (.45 ACP and 10mm), I don't consider myself very knowledgeable about them at all, so I may have to get some other folks to put up photos and info on model variations of the larger Glocks.

Thanks for your input, and the photo of another one of the less-common Glocks!

[DJ Niner]

Austrian-proofed Gen3 G19, bought used a couple of years ago:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3219/g1901.jpg

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/124/g1902.jpg

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/515/g1903.jpg

The Eagle-NPv proofmarks are applied to guns fully assembled in Austria and sold in countries other than the United States, so unless a Glock is fairly old (Gen1 or early Gen2), it is unusual to see these Austrian proofs on a gun in the U.S. The story on these Gen3 Austrian-proofed guns varies, but it seems to be centered around a bit of a shortage in the G19 model here in the U.S., combined with an production overage (possibly due to a smaller-than-projected sale to another country), at about the same time (mid- to late-2000s). A large block of G19s with these markings were imported fully assembled (vs. being assembled here), and show up from time to time on the used-gun market.

Besides the Eagle-NPv proofmarks on the barrel hood, slide (behind and below the extractor), and frame (above the front of the trigger guard), these guns have an importer stamp on the bottom of the trigger guard. Normally, a Glock assembled here in the USA, for sale in the USA, has the correct importer's identification markings in the little oval at the top of the right side grip panel on the frame, but these guns have the Austrian Glock company markings, so the "Glock, Inc., Smyrna, GA" U.S. importer info had to be added somewhere else on the gun.

On this example, the front sight is steel, has a tiny Glock logo on it, and is longer (front-to-back) than current non-tritium front sights. The rear sight on this gun is not original; I replaced it with a steel non-night-sight Trijicon 3-dot sight, due to damage from the previous owner. The original was a stock plastic non-adjustable square-notch white-outline Glock rear sight.

.

[DJ Niner]

Found a non-checkered-fingergroove G27, so I should have a subcompact frame comparison photo up within a week or so.

[DJ Niner]

Glock subcompact frame style comparison (9mm, .40, and .357-size frames).

Although the Subcompact frames have never been available in Gen1 or Gen2 styles, the naming convention used for the full-size 9mm/.40/.357 frames was informally adopted to describe the subcompact models as well. Along with no Gen1 or Gen2 versions, I have never seen or heard of a Gen3 RTF2 subcompact, so that leaves us with 3 basic styles or generations: Gen2.5, Gen3, and Gen4. As said before, Gen4 has been clearly defined by Glock. Gen3 subcompacts have all the same features as the full-size Gen3 frames, but there was also a very early version that had similar features, but was missing the checkering in the fingergroove area on the front of the grip frame. The smooth-groove frames have become known as Gen2.5 guns. In some larger frames, Gen2.5 has been used to describe frames missing the frontstrap checkering and/or missing the front accessory rail on the dust cover area of the frame; but because the subcompact guns have never had the dust cover rail in ANY generation, the lack of frontstrap checkering seems to be the only defining factor in identifying a gun as a Gen2.5.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8555/glocksubcompactframes.jpg


Tags: subcompact Gen2.5, subcompact Gen3, subcompact Gen4, smooth fingergrooves, smooth finger grooves, non-checkered finger grooves, non-checkered fingergrooves.

[Sgt.K]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rKtKY7SHOpY/T1-z2LmOMXI/AAAAAAAAAtI/7O5wr_I_Z68/s1600/Glock_26+%25284%2529a800x600.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-v2_hrWHbFaQ/T0r0WbtiZTI/AAAAAAAAAsA/JEHdqHUKpKE/s1600/2012-02-26+21.59.55as.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gDgieK5ZBZc/T1UxKg8w9zI/AAAAAAAAAs4/_x4k0FjVLo0/s1600/2012-03-05+16.26.32sm.jpg

[DJ Niner]

Very nice! And with a Glock-manufactured +2 magazine extension, too!

I've owned a few of the older-style +2 mag extensions, but they were always on larger mags (G19 and G17).

[WASR10]

Good posts have come to this place. Tagged

[DJ Niner]

Glock 17 Gen2. According to the serial number prefix, this handgun was made a little over a year after the Gen1 G17L shown in post #7, above, making it a fairly early example of a second generation/Gen2 9mm Glock.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9293/g17gen2.jpg

[fairtomidland]

The exact info I was looking for! Great thread Thanks.

[DJ Niner]

You're welcome; I'm glad folks are finding this useful!

[DJ Niner]

The grip panel areas of the Gen3 RTF2 Glocks have small raised pyramid-shaped polymer projections, at a linear density of about 20 per inch (around 400 per square inch; gun is a Glock 17 Gen3 RTF2).

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9508/glockgen3rtf2pyramids.jpg


The same areas of the Gen4 Glocks have larger, flat-topped pyramids at a linear density of about 12 per inch (approximately 144 per square inch; gun is a Glock 22 Gen4).

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2518/glockgen4pyramids.jpg


In addition to the differing shape and densities of the pyramids, there is one more significant difference -- on the Gen3 RTF2 guns, the gripping pattern is extended into the thumb-rest area of the grip (see the photo in post #1 at the top of this thread for a side-by-side comparison of the two frames). While it may or may not be helpful in adding to the security of the shooter's grip, it has been the source of some complaints about an abrasive "sandpaper" effect on certain areas of the shooter's thumb, especially when expending large quantities of ammo in a short time (examples: competitions and Law Enforcement qualifications).

[DJ Niner]

One of the great advantages to the Glock series of pistols is the ability to use magazines of larger capacity than the stock magazine. There are two ways this can be accomplished; by extending the factory magazine using special magazine floorplates, or by using a longer magazine originally designed for another (larger) Glock of the same caliber. Obviously, other pistols made by other companies also share this feature, but I believe Glock offers more factory options in this area than any other maker.

Adding to the capacity of a stock magazine by replacing the floorplate with a "+" floorplate (or buying a magazine already equipped with one) is a popular option. The original extended floorplates were called "+2" (plus two) floorplates (which was stamped on the base), and added two rounds of capacity to a stock 9mm magazine. When the .40 caliber Glocks were added to the 9mm line-up, it was discovered that the +2 floorplate only added one round of capacity to the .40 magazines, due to the larger diameter of the .40 caliber cartridges. This was a little confusing for some folks, as they desperately tried to cram 2 more shots into their +2 modified .40 caliber mags, without success. Adding to the confusion, the plus-two floorplate was made in two versions; one for the older non-full-metal-lined (NFML) magazines, and another for the new/improved full-metal-lined (FML) mags, and although they appeared the same, they were not interchangeable.

At some point during the production of Gen3 Glocks, the extended floorplate was redesigned and the designation was changed to the "+" (plus) floorplate, which was (as above) also marked on the bottom. Now that it is a little bit deeper and with a slightly different profile than the original "+2" floorplate, it adds two rounds of capacity to all Glock factory 9mm, .40, and .357 magazines. Certain magazines can be purchased with a plus floorplate and insert already installed by the factory (G26, G27, and G18, for instance); others are available to Police/Military users as a complete item, but are not found on the "civilian" market here in the USA (although they can be legally created in most states by buying and adding the "extension" (#SP07151) and "insert" (#SP07165) parts to an existing magazine). Here are some comparison photos of the old- and new-style parts:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3254/magfpsideviews.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/3593/magfpbottomviews.jpg


And two photos of a Glock 26; one with a normal 10-shot factory magazine, and the other with a factory magazine using the new-style "+" floorplate installed:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/754/g26gen4w10shotmag.jpg

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3654/g26gen4w12shotplusmag.jpg


Other companies offer extended magazine floorplates, some with very large capacities (+6 or more rounds!), but I'm only concerning myself with factory options in this post. For more information on aftermarket accessories, check the Glock Talk discussion forums.

(continued below)

[DJ Niner]

Using a longer magazine in your Glock is the other way to add capacity. Glock wisely made sure that all the guns in each "series" of frame size/calibers had the same basic magazine dimensions from the locking notch to the feed lips, allowing the use of any magazine long enough to fit and lock into the magazine well of the frame. This was a thoughtful design option originally aimed at the Law Enforcement market; if an officer carried a full-size Glock as their primary duty weapon, they could also carry a smaller Glock as a back-up weapon, and be able to use the full-size magazines on their duty belt for reloading either weapon in an emergency. It also made perfect sense for streamlining the manufacture of the magazines of various lengths for different models.

For the 9mm full-size guns, there is really only one option that is longer than the stock magazines; the G18 magazine. Originally designed to hold and dispense 31 shots for the fast-firing Glock 18 fully-automatic machine-pistol, the latest versions include the "+" floorplate discussed above to increase capacity to 33 shots. For the .40 caliber full-size Glocks, there is a recently released large-capacity magazine that holds 22 rounds of .40 caliber ammunition (also using a "+" floorplate). Although there is nothing specifically offered from the factory for .357 fans, I am told the .40 caliber 22-shot extended magazine works just fine with .357 ammunition.

For the smaller (shorter-gripped) Glocks in the compact and subcompact lines, the magazines from any larger (taller grip frame) Glock in the same caliber will fit and function normally. To illustrate, I have some photos showing a Glock 26 in 9mm caliber, and some of the magazines that will fit and function in it. The model numbers are different, but the same holds true of the .40 and .357 caliber Glocks of comparable sizes.

Glock 26 with a 15-shot magazine from a Glock 19 9mm:

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/2341/g26gen4w15shotg19mag.jpg


Glock 26 with a 17-shot magazine from a Glock 17:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/4238/g26gen4w17shotg17mag.jpg


And yes, even though it looks a bit silly, the Glock 26 (like all the other 9mm Glocks) can use the extended-capacity Glock 18 magazine:

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1929/g26gen4w33shotplusg18ma.jpg


To summarize, Glocks have several different options for increasing their magazine capacity, and the smaller (shorter) they are, the more options they have available. Here is a partial roundup of the magazines that I have used in my Glock 26, with flawless reliability:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5403/g26gen4allmagslabeled.jpg


Not pictured, but still a viable option, would be the 17-shot Glock 17 magazine with a "+" floorplate, for a total capacity of 19 rounds. Adding a "+" floorplate to the 15-shot Glock 19 magazine IS an option, but it would only get you 17 shots (the same as an unmodified Glock 17 magazine, which would be less expensive).

WARNING: Before depending on any larger- or extended-capacity magazine in any pistol for serious uses, be sure to test it for safe fit and functioning, with the exact ammunition you intend to use. Not all guns will work reliably with all possible magazine/ammunition combinations.

[ca survivor]

Definitely a great post, thanks.

[Glockdude1]

Great thread!!

:supergrin:

[Two Guns]

What a great thread this is. Thanks for posting.

[Frankie Figs]

Lots of great info in here! Thank you for your time!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DJ Niner]

The full-size Glocks in 9mm/.40/.357 have always had smooth-faced triggers. Starting with the introduction of the compact (G19-size) handguns, compact (and later, sub-compact G26/G27/G33 guns) had a trigger with a grooved face. This feature was added to give the smaller models enough points under the "points system" import rules required by the Gun Control Act of 1968. To be allowed into the U.S., points are awarded based on features such as size, weight and caliber (generally, bigger is better), adjustable target sights, and grooved target-shooting-style triggers. Without the grooved trigger, the smaller Glocks could not be legally imported.

Glock trigger styles, smooth-faced on the left, grooved on the right:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8783/triggerfacesdiag.jpg

After using Glocks with both smooth- and grooved-face triggers, many shooters find they prefer the feel of a smooth trigger; others just want the same style trigger in all their guns so they handle in a similar manner. Based on this, many of the compact/sub-compact guns' grooved triggers are replaced by users with smooth-faced trigger assemblies made for the larger full-size models, which are interchangeable. Although the replacement of the trigger assembly is not a difficult task, there are a series of safety checks which should be performed prior to using a Glock that has had the trigger (with attached trigger bar) replaced. If you don't know how to perform these safety checks, it is recommended that you have a gunsmith or Glock armorer do the replacement, to ensure safe operation and no unpleasant surprises during use.

Smooth and grooved trigger assemblies, including the attached trigger bar:
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8060/triggersvert.jpg

[DJ Niner]

One of the interesting things about the long-slide Glock 17L competition pistol, is that Glock was able to engineer it to reliably function with the same recoil spring assembly used on the shorter Glock 17, despite the longer slide and barrel. This was done by removing as much excess metal as possible from the 17L slide assembly, by machining cut-outs and recesses in non-critical areas of the slide. By getting the weight down to nearly the same weight of a model 17 slide/barrel assembly, the same recoil spring could be used without compromising reliability.

The photos below are of a late Gen1 model 17L and early Gen2 model 17, manufactured a little over a year apart (side-profile photos of these two guns can be seen in posts number 7 and 18, above). Although the frames were quite a bit different, as far as I can determine, there were no changes made to the basic Glock 17 slide assembly between these two models, so any differences are attributable to the machining required to lighten the slide for the model 17L.

The top view shows the most obvious difference; the "window" in the top of the slide between the front sight and the ejection port. This was not only for weight reduction; some 17L models were shipped with an optional ported barrel, which directed hot expanding gasses up through ports cut into the barrel, and out through this window, helping to reduce/suppress the tendency for the muzzle to rise or flip during recoil. On later Gen3 17L pistols, this window has been moved or reduced slightly in length to allow a larger base for mounting longer front sights, such as the light-pipe sights often used in action-shooting competitions.

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/4393/glockslides17and17ltopv.jpg


Flipping the slides over, we see the first major internal weight-reduction cut, along the lower-right edge of the 17L slide. This cut is deep, extending very close to the top surface of the slide.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4844/glockslides17and17lbtmv.jpg


On both sides of the slide where the breech (or chamber) portion of the barrel slides up and down during cycling, the slide is much thicker, to guide the barrel into position as the slide opens and closes. These thick areas were reduced by machining the solid slab areas into "ribs", removing metal in two different spots so the barrel still would be correctly guided into position, but without using all the metal left in place on the model 17 pistols.

Right-side view (17L slide at the bottom):

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3302/glock17lslidecutoutrtsi.jpg


and left side view (17L slide at the top):

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5241/glock17lslidecutoutleft.jpg


These lightening cuts allowed the early Glock 17L competition pistols to exhibit the same high level of reliability as the service-grade model 17s, with the added perks of an extended sight radius and a lighter trigger connector, making them one of the first factory-issued long-slide high-capacity competition pistols on the market.



.

[DJ Niner]

Glock was one of the first handgun manufacturers to offer factory-made ported/compensated autopistols. Although there are differences between installing a compensator on a handgun, and porting the barrel/slide assembly, Glock seems to use the terms almost interchangeably, and so will I.

The purpose of a ported or compensated handgun is to reduce the recoil-related upward flip of the barrel when it is fired, thereby getting the sights back on target (or onto the next target) as quickly as possible. Porting can be done in different ways, and Glock has used several different methods on various models over the years.

The first ported Glock was the model 17L. Early versions had a barrel ported with three angled slots, to direct some of the powder gasses upward, reducing the muzzle flip when fired. Not all 17L models were ported; some had conventional (non-ported) barrels. Although Glock has never officially acknowledged a problem with the 17L ported barrels, there were reports from some users that the thin area between the ports would sometimes crack. All Gen2 and Gen3 versions of the 17L were only sold with non-ported barrels, which could be interpreted as a confirmation that there was some kind of difficulty with the earlier Gen1 17L ported barrels.

Early Gen1 G17L with ported barrel:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6383/glock17lportedsm.jpg

Side view of barrel (removed from slide) to show profile of the ports:
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/5498/glock17lports.jpg

Top view:
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9679/portedglocks2g17lclose.jpg

[DJ Niner]

After discontinuing the ported Gen1 17L models, Glock didn't offer any ported models again until 1994. The new-for-1994 G24C long-slide was the same size as the 17L, but a little heavier (as were all .40 caliber versions of 9mm Glocks). It had a different arrangement and shape of ports on the barrel, but the ports were still centered on the barrel and still vented upward through the cutout in the top of the slide. The ports were also different sizes, with the first one (closest to the breech) being the smallest, the second being slightly larger, and the last two being the largest and equal in size.

Glock 24C:
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8674/glock24cbw.jpg

G24C port shape and location:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7056/portedglocks3g24cclose.jpg

The G24C was produced from 1994 to about 1998, although there are reports that occasional short production runs of non-ported (G24) models were released after this period. Although the G24C has been listed in the annual Glock catalog for the last several years, it appears actual production has been slow-to-nonexistent.

In the past, Glock also offered G24C slide/barrel assemblies for sale separately, so owners of service-length G22 .40-caliber pistols could "upgrade" to a target-style top end to make their Glocks more versatile. Ads for these slide/barrel assemblies can be seen in some of the late 1990s "Glock Annual" or "Glock Autopistol" magazines/catalogs.

EDIT: The 24C shown above is a Gen3 model. Some early Gen2 versions of the ported G24 were not marked "24C" on the slide; they were marked the same as the unported models ("24"), and the box label had a "-P" after the model number, designating a ported barrel.

.

[DJ Niner]

Beginning in late 1996 or early 1997, a new style of porting became available on full-size and compact Glocks. Different from either of the previous styles, it consisted of two ports side-by-side at approximately 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock positions on the top of the slide/barrel assembly. These ports are oval-shaped, elongated front-to-rear, and the corresponding cuts in the slide are considerably longer than the ports, allowing gas to continue to vent through the ports even as the slide unlocks and begins to travel to the rear. The V-shaped offset position of the ports prevents the exiting gasses and any associated flash from affecting the sight picture during firing in low light; in fact, most visible flash occurs above the slight plane, and is far more visible when viewed from the side vs. directly behind the ports, where the shooter is located. This type of porting has been used on Gen2 and Gen3 Glocks, and is currently available only on Gen3 models; as of this date, no ported Gen4 models have been seen or announced.

Ported Glock 19C and 17C models (G19C has Robar's NP3 aftermarket/custom finish on slide and barrel):
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2037/dualportedglocks19c17c.jpg

Close-up of dual V-positioned ports:
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7395/glock19cports.jpg

[deplt1]

I read in this thread about a Gen 3 witout the rail and without hand grooves. I live in MA and I own a 3 pin glock 23 that does not have a light rail or finger grooves on the front of the frame und the trigger guard. I had to add an aftermarket rubber hand grip to get the finger bumps.

[Glockdude1]

I read in this thread about a Gen 3 witout the rail and without hand grooves. I live in MA and I own a 3 pin glock 23 that does not have a light rail or finger grooves on the front of the frame und the trigger guard. I had to add an aftermarket rubber hand grip to get the finger bumps.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=226750&d=1343347565

That is a Gen 2. The "third pin" was added to handle the .40 round.



:cool:

[stolenphot0]

Since this is the knowledge thread, I will ask here. Did the Gen1 17s come with un-captured guide rods? I bought one used and its supposedly all factory. Just I can't seem to find anything on the guide rods.

[DJ Niner]

Since this is the knowledge thread, I will ask here. Did the Gen1 17s come with un-captured guide rods? I bought one used and its supposedly all factory. Just I can't seem to find anything on the guide rods.Yes, I believe all Gen1 Glock model 17 9mms came with the old-style uncaptured recoil spring and rod. Actually, in the full-size models, I don't think the changeover happened until the Gen2 guns were in production, as my fairly early Gen2 17 also has an uncaptured spring.

The old-style Glock-manufactured uncaptured springs were made of flat spring wire, and the rod was polymer, with a tiny hole in the muzzle end of the rod. I don't think the early rods or springs were marked in any manner.

Springs for the full-size models in 9mm, .40, and .357 are backwardly compatible from Gen3 to Gen1. So, if you need a replacement spring, you can use any Gen1/Gen2 uncaptured spring and rod, or Gen2/Gen3 captured recoil spring assembly (RSA), that was made for a full-size Glock in any of the above calibers.

[stolenphot0]

Yes, I believe all Gen1 Glock model 17 9mms came with the old-style uncaptured recoil spring and rod. Actually, in the full-size models, I don't think the changeover happened until the Gen2 guns were in production, as my fairly early Gen2 17 also has an uncaptured spring.

The old-style Glock-manufactured uncaptured springs were made of flat spring wire, and the rod was polymer, with a tiny hole in the muzzle end of the rod. I don't think the early rods or springs were marked in any manner.

Springs for the full-size models in 9mm, .40, and .357 are backwardly compatible from Gen3 to Gen1. So, if you need a replacement spring, you can use any Gen1/Gen2 uncaptured spring and rod, or Gen2/Gen3 captured recoil spring assembly (RSA), that was made for a full-size Glock in any of the above calibers.
Thanks. I ran my RTF2 17 spring in my Gen1 for a couple hundred rounds, but next outing I am going to use the uncaptured spring & rod.

[westy39]

Thank you this thread is very well done and the information is golden.

[Slobo]

In what year did the 2Gen give way to the 3Gen? If it differed by model, my interest is in the G17, G19 and G22.

[DJ Niner]

My old Glock Annual catalog from 1998 shows Gen2 .357 models on the cover, but the catalog section shows a Gen3 photo for the G17 and G22.

Browsing through the Serial Number Research Project thread here at Glock Talk (check post #5):

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1287557

it looks like the first Gen3 G17 shows up in the CME serial number range, with a born-on date of November 1997, with a Gen3 G22 (CNW prefix) and a G19 (prefix CPH) showing up just a few months later in January of 1998.

Hope that answers your question!


.

[Nestor]

Thank You so much. Very informative thread and helped me a lot I believe. I have not much experience with the Glock pistols, but currently looking for model 22. I'm planning to join the local LE agency in the future, so familiarizing myself with this pistol sounds like a good idea. I have a pretty good choice of the models - generation 2, generation 3, generation 3 RTF2 and generation 4.
I'm torn between generation 2 and 4 now :)
Don't like the finger grooves, but the newest models suppose to deal with the recoil better.
Anyway, again - your information is great and very helpful.
Thanks :wavey:

[DJ Niner]

Thanks for the kind words. I hope you don't mind if I offer a few personal observations on the various Glock models, relating to your upcoming choice.

Having owned/used/carried a Gen2 G19 for almost 10 years, when I first grabbed a Gen3, the fingergrooves felt out-of-place to me, too. But when shooting the Gen2 rapidly, I had always seen a tendency for it to slowly work its way upward until my grip was compromised. It was worse when the gun was mid-winter-in-Fargo cold, or when my hand and the environment were both hot/humid. The fingergrooves really help lock the Glock into position in my hand, even when conditions aren't favorable for rapid firing. After firing just a few magazines, I was hooked, and I've never looked back. I keep a Gen1 and Gen2 around just for old times' sake, but for fast/serious shooting, Gen3 and 4 are simply better, IMO. The only exception is if your hand is so very large or small that the fingergrooves force an unnatural position of your fingers, like thin fingers spread widely apart, or thick fingers jammed together and riding on TOP of the ridges between the grooves.

The gripping surface of the Gen4 guns is fairly aggressive, and some folks don't like it for just that reason. It can be hard on clothes, seats, and any muffin-top fat rolls a person might have hanging over their belt. But it really shines where it counts, keeping that grip solid in your hand when shooting rapidly. The Gen3 RTF2 is also pretty rough, but it is a bit more fine-grained; some like it over the Gen4, but I think I'd still choose a Gen4 if I could only have one.

Before I sold it, I got a chance to shoot my old Gen3 model 22 in .40 side-by-side with my new Gen4 model 22. The snappy recoil was definitely easier to control with the Gen4, and I felt is was slightly less bouncy to begin with, probably due to the new dual recoil spring. I was sold on the .40 caliber Gen4s from that point on, and I will probably upgrade my G35 and G27 to Gen4 models at sometime in the future.

Good luck and good shooting with whatever you choose!

[ca survivor]

great post, thanks

[tnhawk]

Thanks for an informative post :supergrin: Several questions I had were answered here.

[Nestor]

Thanks for the kind words. I hope you don't mind if I offer a few personal observations on the various Glock models, relating to your upcoming choice.

Having owned/used/carried a Gen2 G19 for almost 10 years, when I first grabbed a Gen3, the fingergrooves felt out-of-place to me, too. But when shooting the Gen2 rapidly, I had always seen a tendency for it to slowly work its way upward until my grip was compromised. It was worse when the gun was mid-winter-in-Fargo cold, or when my hand and the environment were both hot/humid. The fingergrooves really help lock the Glock into position in my hand, even when conditions aren't favorable for rapid firing. After firing just a few magazines, I was hooked, and I've never looked back. I keep a Gen1 and Gen2 around just for old times' sake, but for fast/serious shooting, Gen3 and 4 are simply better, IMO. The only exception is if your hand is so very large or small that the fingergrooves force an unnatural position of your fingers, like thin fingers spread widely apart, or thick fingers jammed together and riding on TOP of the ridges between the grooves.

The gripping surface of the Gen4 guns is fairly aggressive, and some folks don't like it for just that reason. It can be hard on clothes, seats, and any muffin-top fat rolls a person might have hanging over their belt. But it really shines where it counts, keeping that grip solid in your hand when shooting rapidly. The Gen3 RTF2 is also pretty rough, but it is a bit more fine-grained; some like it over the Gen4, but I think I'd still choose a Gen4 if I could only have one.

Before I sold it, I got a chance to shoot my old Gen3 model 22 in .40 side-by-side with my new Gen4 model 22. The snappy recoil was definitely easier to control with the Gen4, and I felt is was slightly less bouncy to begin with, probably due to the new dual recoil spring. I was sold on the .40 caliber Gen4s from that point on, and I will probably upgrade my G35 and G27 to Gen4 models at sometime in the future.

Good luck and good shooting with whatever you choose!

Thanks so much.
I may go with Gen4 in the near future if finances will allow.
I just found a deal that I couldn't pass.
Gen 2 Glock 21.
I may go for one of those grip enhancers to keep things under control.

[DJ Niner]

Thanks so much.
I may go with Gen4 in the near future if finances will allow.
I just found a deal that I couldn't pass.
Gen 2 Glock 21.
I may go for one of those grip enhancers to keep things under control.Another great choice! Some of those Gen2 .45s shoot like fitted match-grade target weapons, once you find the load(s) they like. Congrats!


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[evomike]

I just bought a customized G23, it came with the hybrid barrel from KKM, aftermarket sights, and extended mag release. After reading this and other threads, I still couldn't determine what generation I have??? Serial number starts with DLU (not listed)??? it is a 3 pin, it has rail mount, and thumb rests, yet has no finger grooves on the handle? Any Glock experts out there that could help me out?

[DJ Niner]

A Glock in the DLUxxx serial number range should be a Gen3. I would venture a guess that during the customization process, the previous owner had the finger grooves removed from the front of the frame, as none of the Gen1 or Gen2 Glocks had thumb-rests on the frame. Removal of the grooves is relatively easy to do; the challenge is making the frame look good AFTER the removal.

In checking the Serial Number Project list (another thread in this forum), there is a DLU-series G23 listed, with a born-on date of 1 Jan 2000; the list also indicates that gun is a Gen3:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5182/sernolist.jpg

Hope this is helpful.

[Dogman 10x]

Great info.

[DXThtr]

Awesome stuff!


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire (http://www.outdoorhub.com/mobile/)

[dvrdwn72]

Ive got a few gen 4 35's. Love them. I do have a gen 2.5 27. ccgxxx. Great shooter and carry it daily. Never thought it was a 2.5 as I just figured it was a 3. I just got a great deal on a gen 2 23, blzxxx. I did notice that on the slide of my 27 it says .40sw

[im_n2_vws]

Here are a couple of pictures of my G21 2.5 gen. Anyone have any idea on production numbers on the 2.5s? I heard somewhere that there were maybe 1000?


http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/im_n2_vws/100_0230-1.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/im_n2_vws/100_0232.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb119/im_n2_vws/100_0231.jpg

[DJ Niner]

No idea how many total were made. That type of info (from a reliable source) is difficult to find for Glocks. Great photos, though; thanks for posting them!

And thanks to all who have offered kind words about this thread.
I'm glad folks are finding it useful.

[malleable]

Good info

[legalsten]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask but here it is . I thought I remembered seeing many years ago , that the 9mm had smaller / shorter metal guide rails in the frame than 40 or 357 models. Therfore it was not recommended to change to a 357 or 40 slide and ejector. Did this change at some point ? Are the frames the same now other than ejector and slides ?

[DJ Niner]

The only recommendation I have heard along those lines, is the older 2-pin frames should not be converted to .40 or .357 (see post #2 in this thread for an image comparison of a 2-pin and 3-pin frame). The third pin stabilized the locking block better in the frame, and along with a larger/stronger locking block introduced at about the same time, greatly improved durability in the larger calibers over the long term.

The third pin was introduced somewhere in the middle of the Gen3 model run, so you will find some Gen3 9mm full-size Glocks with 2-pin frames, and some with 3-pin frames. I've always been told that 3-pin frames can be safely converted to .40 and/or .357 (given the correct parts, of course).

[legalsten]

Mine is the 3 pin design and I was guessing that somewhere down the line they simplifed by using one frame for each given size ( full , compact , sub compact ) instead of one for the 9 mm and another one for the 357 and 40 .

Thanks for the info

[DJ Niner]

Mine is the 3 pin design and I was guessing that somewhere down the line they simplifed by using one frame for each given size ( full , compact , sub compact ) instead of one for the 9 mm and another one for the 357 and 40 .

Thanks for the infoChecking a few Glock full-size 9mm handguns/photos that I can access, I see that by the DT* ***-series of serial numbers, there was a faint shadow mold-mark on the frame where the third pin hole would eventually be, like they were already using the 3-pin .40 frame mold, but plugging the hole for the third pin when they used it for 9mm frames. I saw the same thing in a DU* ***-series 9mm, so they still hadn't converted to the three-pin frame for the 9mm guns at the time that Glock was made. Checking the user database for date will give you an idea of when those guns were made, if you want to narrow-down the time window.

[DJ Niner]

Wow! 20,000 views in about 9 months!

Thanks again for all the kind comments I have received on this thread, and once again, I am glad folks are finding it useful.

[GRT45]

This thread is a wonderful resource. Thanks for creating it.

I can contribute some information about the 45ACP and 10mm subcompact pistols, models G30 and G29, respectively.

I have noted owner/buyer reports and data in the Glock Serial Number Research Project (http://www.stakhaus.com) database showing the Gen 3 versions of the G30 and G29 subcompact pistols went through a transition from Gen 3 models without an accessory rail to later Gen 3 with the accessory rail.

Before the accessory rail was added, G30 and G29 pistols were manufactured that had all the Gen3 characteristics:

Finger grooves on the front strap
Checkering in the finger grooves on the front strap
Thumb rests on the grip
Three frame pins
Loaded Chamber Indicator Extractor (LCI)

Therefore, I do not think it correct to assign an informal designation of Gen 2.5 (a designation that Glock, Inc. doesn't recognize officially) to the G30/G29 without an accessory rail. I believe it's more correct to simply describe the two variants as "G30/G29 Gen3 without accessory rail" and "G30/G29 Gen3 with accessory rail."

The database indicates the accessory rail first appeared on the Gen 3 G30 45ACP around June, 2005 with serial number prefix HGM.

In the database, the first record for a Gen 3 G29 10mm specifically mentioning a rail has a test fire date in February, 2006 with serial number prefix HXN. It's possible that the Gen 3 G29 had an accessory rail earlier than this date since the G29 and G30 share a common frame.

[NtheFamily]

Great info and thanks!

[BustedFlush]

Glock subcompact frame style comparison (9mm, .40, and .357-size frames).

Although the Subcompact frames have never been available in Gen1 or Gen2 styles, the naming convention used for the full-size 9mm/.40/.357 frames was informally adopted to describe the subcompact models as well. Along with no Gen1 or Gen2 versions, I have never seen or heard of a Gen3 RTF2 subcompact, so that leaves us with 3 basic styles or generations: Gen2.5, Gen3, and Gen4. As said before, Gen4 has been clearly defined by Glock. Gen3 subcompacts have all the same features as the full-size Gen3 frames, but there was also a very early version that had similar features, but was missing the checkering in the fingergroove area on the front of the grip frame. The smooth-groove frames have become known as Gen2.5 guns. In some larger frames, Gen2.5 has been used to describe frames missing the frontstrap checkering and/or missing the front accessory rail on the dust cover area of the frame; but because the subcompact guns have never had the dust cover rail in ANY generation, the lack of frontstrap checkering seems to be the only defining factor in identifying a gun as a Gen2.5.

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8555/glocksubcompactframes.jpg


Tags: subcompact Gen2.5, subcompact Gen3, subcompact Gen4, smooth fingergrooves, smooth finger grooves, non-checkered finger grooves, non-checkered fingergrooves.


Very nice job! Thanks DJ!

I have one of each. Oddly, my first subcompact Glock, a smooth fingered gen 2.5 G27 with a slip on grip and that "pretty" original Glock slide finish still seems to be my favorite. My gen4 26 is growing on me. Thanks again for the great pics!

** Tagged **

[DJ Niner]

More nice words; thanks!

I totally agree with you on the finish of the early Glocks.
I prefer it to all other variations, and it seems pretty durable.

[AquaHull]

Checking a few Glock full-size 9mm handguns/photos that I can access, I see that by the DT* ***-series of serial numbers, there was a faint shadow mold-mark on the frame where the third pin hole would eventually be, like they were already using the 3-pin .40 frame mold, but plugging the hole for the third pin when they used it for 9mm frames. I saw the same thing in a DU* ***-series 9mm, so they still hadn't converted to the three-pin frame for the 9mm guns at the time that Glock was made. Checking the user database for date will give you an idea of when those guns were made, if you want to narrow-down the time window.

You answered my question in advance of me asking.

I spotted a DZU*** G19, on a MI forum that looks like a small mold mark where the 3 rd pin would go.It's hard to tell by the pic, but it doesn't look like the 3rd pin on my GUB *** G19

link to the ad

http://www.migunowners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=220738

The question is, is a 3 pin better than a 2 pin model? I know it won't have the BTF issue, but it is pricey.

[DJ Niner]

...

The question is, is a 3 pin better than a 2 pin model? I know it won't have the BTF issue, but it is pricey.Only you can make that call. Personally, if I was buying an older used Glock with the intention of shooting it regularly, I'd try to buy the latest/newest model that I was reasonably certain would work well, if for no other reason than parts availability. Generally, the older the model of ANY firearm, the more difficult it is to get parts for it. In the Glock world, examples of hard-to-find parts might include the old flat-sided (non-LCI) extractors, older locking blocks, and the very early "pencil"/skinny 9mm barrels.

I have several older 9mm models, but I try to do most of my shooting with newer Glocks. Several of my Gen3 guns have the flat-sided/non-LCI extractor, but I bought a few spares several years ago, so if I need some to replace worn or broken parts, I already have them. For folks who don't stock spare parts, the only other option is to send it to the factory and hope they still have a stash of older parts that includes whatever you need.


.

[Magnum Brown]

I'm new to the Forum and guns. About 6 months ago I purchased a Glock g21 .45 ACP, with 3 mags (One extended)

Based on the pics, I'm pretty sure it's a Gen 2.5. My question is... How can I tell the difference between a gen 2.5 and 3? (Sorry if this is a silly question, but Im a newb)

[BustedFlush]

I'm new to the Forum and guns. About 6 months ago I purchased a Glock g21 .45 ACP, with 3 mags (One extended)

Based on the pics, I'm pretty sure it's a Gen 2.5. My question is... How can I tell the difference between a gen 2.5 and 3? (Sorry if this is a silly question, but Im a newb)
I just dropped by and caught one I can answer.

In the Glock 21 what we call gen 2.5 means it has the finger grooves but the frame does NOT have the accessory rail. There used to be pics of these in the old Serial Number Thread, but I couldn't find them. I'll look again later.

If you have neither rail nor finger grooves it is gen 2.

If you have finger grooves only, it is gen 2.5.

If you have both, it is gen 3.

Gen 2.5 means something a little different in the subcompact 26 and 27 than it does with your large frame 21. DJ did a nice job of explaining what a gen 2.5 means for the subcompacts. I think in all uses, "gen 2.5" simply refers to intermediate step between gen 2 and gen 3. There is no such thing as a gen 2.5 in a Glock 19 or 17 for instance, nor for several other models.

It gets confusing and not everyone agrees on these definitions, especially with the subs. If my definitions above were applied to the subcompacts, they would still be gen 2.5 since they still lack the rail.

I've "over answered" your question.

You can use your serial number alpha prefix to get the date of production if you are interested. Hopefully the link in my signature is still good.

ETA: The first one I see posted in the SN thread is this one:

CGD*** G-21C 2.5 1997-05-01

I would not be surprised if there were earlier ones though. Someone might have submitted their SN and not realized that the finger grooves meant we'd call it Gen 2.5.

I hope you like your G21 and that you enjoy it.

BF

[Magnum Brown]

I just dropped by and caught one I can answer.

In the Glock 21 what we call gen 2.5 means it has the finger grooves but the frame does NOT have the accessory rail. There used to be pics of these in the old Serial Number Thread, but I couldn't find them. I'll look again later.

If you have neither rail nor finger grooves it is gen 2.

If you have finger grooves only, it is gen 2.5.

If you have both, it is gen 3.

Gen 2.5 means something a little different in the subcompact 26 and 27 than it does with your large frame 21. DJ did a nice job of explaining what a gen 2.5 means for the subcompacts. I think in all uses, "gen 2.5" simply refers to intermediate step between gen 2 and gen 3. There is no such thing as a gen 2.5 in a Glock 19 or 17 for instance, nor for several other models.

It gets confusing and not everyone agrees on these definitions, especially with the subs. If my definitions above were applied to the subcompacts, they would still be gen 2.5 since they still lack the rail.

I've "over answered" your question.

You can use your serial number alpha prefix to get the date of production if you are interested. Hopefully the link in my signature is still good.

ETA: The first one I see posted in the SN thread is this one:

CGD*** G-21C 2.5 1997-05-01

I would not be surprised if there were earlier ones though. Someone might have submitted their SN and not realized that the finger grooves meant we'd call it Gen 2.5.

I hope you like your G21 and that you enjoy it.

BF

Thanks... I really appreciate the info

Glad I found this forum... I have a lot to learn

[DJ Niner]

Based on a recent thread in the General Glocking sub-forum, some folks have had difficulties using (or perhaps more accurately, figuring out how to use) the Glock-supplied magazine loader. Click the link below to see a short video clip demonstrating the use of the Glock mag loader:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9186/dscn6124.mp4



.

[INEEDMILK]

Based on a recent thread in the General Glocking sub-forum, some folks have had difficulties using (or perhaps more accurately, figuring out how to use) the Glock-supplied magazine loader. Click the link below to see a short video clip demonstrating the use of the Glock mag loader:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9186/dscn6124.mp4



.

You should post this on www.reddit.com/r/Glocks

Someone just posted a picture today of a broken mag loader with the title "You win this time, magazine."

[DJ Niner]

You should post this on www.reddit.com/r/Glocks

Someone just posted a picture today of a broken mag loader with the title "You win this time, magazine."Well, I'm not going to say it will ALWAYS be this easy to load a mag with the Glock loader; this mag was well-broken-in, and I only loaded 5 rounds into it. I've seen my share of recalcitrant mags (especially when they are brand new), and I'm sure this isn't the first time a loader has been broken during use.

However, I will note that the mag shown on Reddit was NOT a Glock factory mag, had a greatly extended capacity, and was being filled with .45 ACP ammo. The strength of a spring required to push an extended stack of chubby .45 ACP punkin' balls up and out of a long tube in a timely fashion so as to keep up with a quickly cycling slide may well have exceeded the design/build specifications of the Glock mag loader, so I wouldn't really call this a failure under "normal" use.

If you think the vid clip would be helpful to Reddit users, feel free to repost it with a "For non-commercial educational use only" disclaimer.

[DJ Niner]

25,000 views and still climbing!

Thanks again for all the kind words, and thanks to the other folks who have added knowledge, tips, and photos to this thread!

[bsg1]

very informative.

[duramaxdiesel09]

As for what constitutes a "real" Gen 2.5 in the subs would be something missing that they eventually ended up with, like the checkering in the finger grooves. I've seen it on the 9mm and the 40 S&W, I assume that there are possibly G33's out there that are missing the checkering.

There are Gen 2.5 G33's. My uncle has one of them.

[DJ Niner]

There are Gen 2.5 G33's. My uncle has one of them.Good to know!

If you don't mind, and if he doesn't mind, the next time you see or talk to him, could you get the first three letters of the serial number? I'd be interested in knowing the approximate serial number range where these were produced.

Thanks in advance for anything you can do!

[haydenBJJ]

I have a question, which i think might be a useful thought to add this thread. Roughly what months/years were each generation of Glock made? example

Gen1 1985-1995
Gen2 1995-etc etc etc

I know some generations overlap (Gen3 and Gen4 currently do) but i think this would be useful for me (and hopefully some others)

[DJ Niner]

If anyone else has this info handy and would post it, that would be great, and here's my "Thank You" in advance!

If not, I'll squeeze that info out of the serial number research thread and put it together in an easy-to-read format sometime in the next week or so.

I agree that this would be handy info to have at hand; thanks for the idea!

[stak]

Here is what I have...

Gen1 1982-1989(~March)
Gen2 (~March) 1989-1997 (~August)
Gen3 (~August) 1997-Present
Gen4 2010-Present