The war on drugs is a success [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Ruble Noon
05-02-2012, 21:03
Report: Frequent Marijuana Smoking Up 80 Percent Among Teens

http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/Report_Frequent_Marijuana_Smoking_Up_80_Percent_Among_Teens_149910715.html

Meth lab numbers increase sharply in 2011

http://newsandtribune.com/local/x2063990252/Meth-lab-numbers-increase-sharply-in-2011

hogfish
05-02-2012, 21:15
Report: Frequent Marijuana Smoking Up 80 Percent Among Teens

http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/Report_Frequent_Marijuana_Smoking_Up_80_Percent_Among_Teens_149910715.html

Meth lab numbers increase sharply in 2011

http://newsandtribune.com/local/x2063990252/Meth-lab-numbers-increase-sharply-in-2011





Hah! That's because we haven't spent enough money on it (the WOD). We need to have more Coast Guard boats, planes & choppers dedicated solely to this. Have more cops on it; grow the DEA. Train ALL police dogs to sniff for drugs instead of explosives, etc. THEN it will work!

:faint:

Ruble Noon
05-02-2012, 21:25
Hah! That's because we haven't spent enough money on it (the WOD). We need to have more Coast Guard boats, planes & choppers dedicated solely to this. Have more cops on it; grow the DEA. Train ALL police dogs to sniff for drugs instead of explosives, etc. THEN it will work!

:faint:

No doubt, we just haven't thrown enough money at it yet. :faint:

RustyShackelford
05-02-2012, 21:42
Kids today are stoners.

/and yesterday

callihan_44
05-03-2012, 06:04
this war isnt meant to be won, think if by miracle everyone stopped doing drugs the ensuing mass of job loss in the enforcement sector.....it's here to stay folks

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 06:41
So let's declare a truce. Decriminalize it, but make sure all the costs are born by the users. No public assistance if you are a user. All health problems associated with use are paid for out of pocket or with separate insurance. And yes, it's ok if you add tobacco and alcohol to that. With freedom, comes responsibility. If you can pay your own way, you should be able to play. Otherwise, I, and many others don't really care if the laws change.

DonGlock26
05-03-2012, 06:51
I knew this was coming a while ago. The fashion industry started pushing the hippie/ 60's look a while ago. The Che' shirts came back, and then the hemp fascination. Heroin came back too, and kids are dropping like ninepins. People are sheep.

_

Brucev
05-03-2012, 07:08
Briefly... forgetaboutit. Treat it exactly like alcohol. No difference at all. If alcohol were today just a new drug coming on the market and marijuana had been freely available for centuries, it would make no more sense to treat alcohol in the manner as is currently the method for marijuana. The "war on drugs" was a convenient political ploy. Nothing more. Now it is not even a convenient political ploy. It's time to admit the truth and drop it... same as protest against LBJ. It's a dead issue.

frank4570
05-03-2012, 08:11
So let's declare a truce. Decriminalize it, but make sure all the costs are born by the users. No public assistance if you are a user. All health problems associated with use are paid for out of pocket or with separate insurance. And yes, it's ok if you add tobacco and alcohol to that. With freedom, comes responsibility. If you can pay your own way, you should be able to play. Otherwise, I, and many others don't really care if the laws change.

The religious branch of the republican party is not on board with this way of thinking. You have to be forced to stay away from sin.

lancesorbenson
05-03-2012, 08:41
So let's declare a truce. Decriminalize it, but make sure all the costs are born by the users. No public assistance if you are a user. All health problems associated with use are paid for out of pocket or with separate insurance. And yes, it's ok if you add tobacco and alcohol to that. With freedom, comes responsibility. If you can pay your own way, you should be able to play. Otherwise, I, and many others don't really care if the laws change.

100% agree.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 08:50
The religious branch of the republican party is not on board with this way of thinking. You have to be forced to stay away from sin.

So, do you support a change or not. You will have to give a little to get a little. If users are truly responsible for their choice, you bring more to your side of the issue. Otherwise, we are just griping and not changing things.

frank4570
05-03-2012, 09:01
So, do you support a change or not. You will have to give a little to get a little. If users are truly responsible for their choice, you bring more to your side of the issue. Otherwise, we are just griping and not changing things.

Sure, change would be nice. Going to happen? Nope.

Prohibition was too expensive, that's the only reason we got rid of it, because we couldn't afford it and there were people who cared about what we could or could not afford. Not an issue anymore.

I'm totally with you. Let people use drugs if they want to, just make them responsible for their own lives. Are you going to start using drugs just because they are legal? No. Me neither. And not most people who get up and go to work every day.
Hunting is illegal on sunday. Buying liquor is illegal on sunday. And now we also have a law making gay marriage illegal. I voted against the christian statist law, didn't make any difference.

Glocksanity
05-03-2012, 09:01
So let's declare a truce. Decriminalize it, but make sure all the costs are born by the users. No public assistance if you are a user. All health problems associated with use are paid for out of pocket or with separate insurance. And yes, it's ok if you add tobacco and alcohol to that. With freedom, comes responsibility. If you can pay your own way, you should be able to play. Otherwise, I, and many others don't really care if the laws change.

Agreed. And let the twinkie eating fatties pay for their obesity and diabetes problems themselves as well.

eracer
05-03-2012, 09:14
So let's declare a truce. Decriminalize it, but make sure all the costs are born by the users. No public assistance if you are a user. All health problems associated with use are paid for out of pocket or with separate insurance. And yes, it's ok if you add tobacco and alcohol to that. With freedom, comes responsibility. If you can pay your own way, you should be able to play. Otherwise, I, and many others don't really care if the laws change.Will you PLEASE run for office?

Brucev
05-03-2012, 09:27
Agreed. And let the twinkie eating fatties pay for their obesity and diabetes problems themselves as well.

Why stop there. Let the folks who wear out their knees running pay for their own knee jobs. Let the folks get lost while hiking in a national park, etc. get themselves out or let them pay the full cost of all the search and rescue personnel and equipment. Let commercial and recreational fisherman who get into trouble and sink off the coast save themselves or drown. Why should the Coast Guard take time off to go rescue such people at taxpayer expense. Why... do the same thing with traffic accidents. Let those who have them deal with the aftermath on their own. :whistling:

frank4570
05-03-2012, 09:31
Will you PLEASE run for office?

I've tried to get him to. He refuses. I may just write him in on election day.

eracer
05-03-2012, 09:35
I've tried to get him to. He refuses. I may just write him in on election day.Well, he'll get two votes, at least.

eracer
05-03-2012, 09:48
Why stop there. Let the folks who wear out their knees running pay for their own knee jobs.

Agreed.

Let the folks get lost while hiking in a national park, etc. get themselves out or let them pay the full cost of all the search and rescue personnel and equipment.

Agreed.

Let commercial and recreational fisherman who get into trouble and sink off the coast save themselves or drown.

Why should the Coast Guard take time off to go rescue such people at taxpayer expense.

Agreed.

Why... do the same thing with traffic accidents. Let those who have them deal with the aftermath on their own. :whistling:

Agreed.
I'll all for returning to full-on natural selection as a means of population control. Maybe we'd learn to rely on each other and ourselves, instead of a nanny state, and so-called 'insurance.'

Imagine if hikers learned how to rescue each other. If fisherman went out together and shared the resources (and provided a measure of assistance in times of trouble. If runners learned not to abuse their bodies and expect me to pay for their knee replacements.

If drug users learned to keep drugs from ruining their lives.

What the difference between me having one drink a day and an alcoholic whose lack of productivity and medical expenses cost me money? Personal responsibility.

What's the difference between the doctor who smokes pot once or twice a year while he's on vacation, and the stoner who can't live without it? Personal responsibility.

We coddle those who believe that the State should provide the discipline we lack.

We expect that the individual should not have to rely on other individuals, but rather, rely on the resources of those individuals - resources that are taken from us as the price of admission to the society we CHOOSE to live in.

We choose it every time we vote against personal liberty.

stsai465
05-03-2012, 09:58
The problem w/ the "let the druggies have their stuff, then let them bear the consequences to their health, etc" is you all know that politically, that's just not going to fly. What *will* happen if legalization happens is every drugged out loser out there will demand the additional medical support they would need for free, their lost time compensated/paid for by their employers, etc. and with the current political climate (sadly w/ both major parties), they'd get it because self-reliance and responsibilities just aren't politically popular now or likely ever.

Dexters
05-03-2012, 10:17
Report: Frequent Marijuana Smoking Up 80 Percent Among Teens

http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/Report_Frequent_Marijuana_Smoking_Up_80_Percent_Among_Teens_149910715.html

Meth lab numbers increase sharply in 2011

http://newsandtribune.com/local/x2063990252/Meth-lab-numbers-increase-sharply-in-2011





What was ever outlawed and was eliminated?

People will do what they will do

Legalize
Heroin
Cocaine
Methamphetamine
Crack Cocaine
LSD
Ecstasy
Opium
Marijuana
Psilocybin Mushrooms
PCP

But we also need to legalize the use of prescription drugs like Vicodin and Oxycontin by everyone.

http://voices.yahoo.com/illegal-prescription-drug-among-teens-the-3684.html

We need to legalize all drugs for all people.

We can deal with all the problems on the back end. If a 12 year old takes someone takes a LSD trip and vicodin and get in a car and kills some people or if he trips out and kills his parents, there will be a jail cell waiting for him.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 13:24
Sure, change would be nice. Going to happen? Nope.

Prohibition was too expensive, that's the only reason we got rid of it, because we couldn't afford it and there were people who cared about what we could or could not afford. Not an issue anymore.

I'm totally with you. Let people use drugs if they want to, just make them responsible for their own lives. Are you going to start using drugs just because they are legal? No. Me neither. And not most people who get up and go to work every day.
Hunting is illegal on sunday. Buying liquor is illegal on sunday. And now we also have a law making gay marriage illegal. I voted against the christian statist law, didn't make any difference.

Well, I'll likely be hunting and trapping this Sunday, and we can buy beer after noon, but I don't drink liquor,and will likely buy all the beer we need on Friday on the way out to the ranch. The last dozen or so times I've been in a church, it was to vote. It is what it is today, an it would take overcoming inertia to change things. ETA: buddy just called, won't be this weekend, he has some legal homework to do.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 13:26
What was ever outlawed and was eliminated?

People will do what they will do

Legalize
Heroin
Cocaine
Methamphetamine
Crack Cocaine
LSD
Ecstasy
Opium
Marijuana
Psilocybin Mushrooms
PCP

But we also need to legalize the use of prescription drugs like Vicodin and Oxycontin by everyone.

http://voices.yahoo.com/illegal-prescription-drug-among-teens-the-3684.html

We need to legalize all drugs for all people.

We can deal with all the problems on the back end. If a 12 year old takes someone takes a LSD trip and vicodin and get in a car and kills some people or if he trips out and kills his parents, there will be a jail cell waiting for him.

Make it so the financial responsibilities are up front too, and cut off all public assistance to those that choose to use, and we will almost be on the same page.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 13:42
Will you PLEASE run for office?

I've tried to get him to. He refuses. I may just write him in on election day.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I honestly have way too much fun seeing patients. I'm only 44, and right now, it's just not in the cards. Maybe some day in the future. I'm neck deep in trying to fix some major problems already. I've gone to Washington, and without the congressman knowing I was in town, his staffer came in to speak to our group, found out where we were from and stated that the they had some concerns about where I worked, and asked our group leader if she knew me by name. So much for keeping a low profile. The congressman came in later and we talked for about an hour. We are still working on the issues. Things move painfully slow. I am actively trying, and sticking my neck out about a mile in the process.

Give me 5 or 6 years, maybe then.

RC-RAMIE
05-03-2012, 16:24
Make it so the financial responsibilities are up front too, and cut off all public assistance to those that choose to use, and we will almost be on the same page.

While I agree the government shouldn't pay that is a separate problem and should be dealt with the drug war should be ended, regardless if the other problem is fixed or not. Allowing the government powers it should not have in the first place should not be on conditions that we should fix other problems in government first.


....

GAFinch
05-03-2012, 19:11
We're losing the drug war for the same reason we're losing the Afghanistan War (not to mention the wars on prostitution, rape, murder, gangs, burglary, grand theft auto, etc. despite the increasing proliferation in ballistics, fingerprinting, DNA, and surveillance cameras)...lib activists limiting the rules of engagement while demonizing the military, the police, and other members of society who choose morals and self-control over laziness and hedonism. Just because the problem isn't going away doesn't mean we should just give up though.

Kevin108
05-03-2012, 19:16
Otherwise, I, and many others don't really care if the laws change.

You should care. What's going on now is a ridiculous waste of our tax dollars.

RC-RAMIE
05-03-2012, 19:21
We're losing the drug war for the same reason we're losing the Afghanistan War (not to mention the wars on prostitution, rape, murder, gangs, burglary, grand theft auto, etc. despite the increasing proliferation in ballistics, fingerprinting, DNA, and surveillance cameras)...lib activists limiting the rules of engagement while demonizing the military, the police, and other members of society who choose morals and self-control over laziness and hedonism. Just because the problem isn't going away doesn't mean we should just give up though.

The federal government shouldn't be involved in the first place, like it or not there is a huge difference between drugs and rape, murder, gangs, burglary, grand theft auto, etc., and yes I left prostitution off on purpose vices are not crimes.


....

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 19:29
While I agree the government shouldn't pay that is a separate problem and should be dealt with the drug war should be ended, regardless if the other problem is fixed or not. Allowing the government powers it should not have in the first place should not be on conditions that we should fix other problems in government first.


....

Not with my support it won't. When you sue for peace, there are terms. No one gets everything they want unless it is a crushing defeat. That didn't happen.

If you really want to get people on your side, you end the war on drugs by putting the responsibility for all of the consequences on those that choose to imbibe.

Otherwise, it will be a non-starter for most people, and the status quo will remain. If you want me (and I'd guess at least a dozen people in the country that see this thing my way) to join your march, petition, letter writing campaign, those are my conditions. No sweat either way, all I have to do is nothing on the issue if those that want to end the war on drugs don't agree. Doing nothing is rather easy.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 19:33
You should care. What's going on now is a ridiculous waste of our tax dollars.

I can think of a few more expensive wastes. I've met too many welfare leeches that are getting paid to stay home stoned. They are fed, housed, and provided recreational funds by the state. I see the health effects on a daily basis. Anyhow, I have my terms for joining the decriminalization movement. Those terms may be conflicting, arbitrary, and impossible for some to understand, but they aren't likely to change.

RC-RAMIE
05-03-2012, 19:38
I can think of a few more expensive wastes. I've met too many welfare leeches that are getting paid to stay home stoned. They are fed, housed, and provided recreational funds by the state. I see the health effects on a daily basis. Anyhow, I have my terms for joining the decriminalization movement. Those terms may be conflicting, arbitrary, and impossible for some to understand, but they aren't likely to change.

You do know that people not in welfare also use marijuana why should they be punished because of a separate program welfare that is a failure on its on. People should be responsible for their actions but that is a separate issue from the federal governments role in regulating drugs.


....

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 19:52
You do know that people not in welfare also use marijuana why should they be punished because of a separate program welfare that is a failure on its on. People should be responsible for their actions but that is a separate issue from the federal governments role in regulating drugs.


....

I'm not punishing anyone. Marijuana was illegal before I was born. I'm not asking anyone to share my opinion or terms for joining the decriminalization movement. I don't require anyone's approval, those are just my terms for helping. Until then, I see more of a downside to decriminalization than an upside. I won't actively lobby or work to keep them illegal either, I'll just do nothing on that issue, because I don't really care about it that much.

I'll be very noninterventionist in this particular war.

hogfish
05-03-2012, 20:05
Not with my support it won't. When you sue for peace, there are terms. No one gets everything they want unless it is a crushing defeat. That didn't happen.

If you really want to get people on your side, you end the war on drugs by putting the responsibility for all of the consequences on those that choose to imbibe.

Otherwise, it will be a non-starter for most people, and the status quo will remain. If you want me (and I'd guess at least a dozen people in the country that see this thing my way) to join your march, petition, letter writing campaign, those are my conditions. No sweat either way, all I have to do is nothing on the issue if those that want to end the war on drugs don't agree. Doing nothing is rather easy.

Hi. What I gather from your posts is that if a straight yes or no vote came up for legalizing marihuana, you would choose not to participate. Am I interpreting correctly?

Thanks.

Kevin108
05-03-2012, 20:10
I can think of a few more expensive wastes. I've met too many welfare leeches that are getting paid to stay home stoned. They are fed, housed, and provided recreational funds by the state. I see the health effects on a daily basis. The worst thing about it is that these same wastes of matter can vote. The president keeps preaching that everyone needs to pay their fair share. Meanwhile those of us who are doing the paying realize that the other half is living off of us, meaning we're already paying twice our fair share for basic government services plus the massive amount of extra to provide everything for these no-loads.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 20:11
Hi. What I gather from your posts is that if a straight yes or no vote came up for legalizing marihuana, you would choose not to participate. Am I interpreting correctly?

Thanks.

No, I do vote. Maybe if it were a special vote, and the only item being voted on, and if I was busy, I might not bother voting, but we'd have to see. If there are other issues on the ballot, then I am likely to be filling out a ballot.

Unfortunately, voting is digital, not analog. I can't put down that I am only 52% opposed to legalization without responsibility conditions, so the one best answer, that is by no means perfect, would be No.

I'm not lobbying either way. Not working for any campaign, not an ally of either camp. Mostly neutral.

Cavalry Doc
05-03-2012, 20:15
The worst thing about it is that these same wastes of matter can vote. The president keeps preaching that everyone needs to pay their fair share. Meanwhile those of us who are doing the paying realize that the other half is living off of us, meaning we're already paying twice our fair share.

Ding. Give the man a prize.

Life is about choices. Wanna check out on reality, fine, pay your own way. No wellfare for you (in your best soup nazi accent).

I meet able bodied men just about daily that are living off of the state. That's sad. I'm all for not letting people starve, but I am for letting them fail. You should have a better quality of life if you are working a part time job, than on welfare.

You pay, and I'll support you playing. You don't pay, well, not so much.

RC-RAMIE
05-04-2012, 09:31
I'm not punishing anyone. Marijuana was illegal before I was born. I'm not asking anyone to share my opinion or terms for joining the decriminalization movement. I don't require anyone's approval, those are just my terms for helping. Until then, I see more of a downside to decriminalization than an upside. I won't actively lobby or work to keep them illegal either, I'll just do nothing on that issue, because I don't really care about it that much.

I'll be very noninterventionist in this particular war.

So if government overreach don't interfere with your life you are ok with it.

Dogpatch06
05-04-2012, 10:08
http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/drug-decriminalization-portugal-lessons-creating-fair-successful-drug-policies

Good article on the results of drug decriminalization in Portugal.

Cavalry Doc
05-04-2012, 10:12
So if government overreach don't interfere with your life you are ok with it.

Not even ok with it. But I'm personally not going to spend time and emotional energy on an issue that is not going to change the way I want it to change. If the goal is legalization without responsibility, I'm perfectly ok with others spending their time on it. Good luck. Best wishes.

Maybe you could google "coalition building"?

GAFinch
05-04-2012, 14:19
The federal government shouldn't be involved in the first place, like it or not there is a huge difference between drugs and rape, murder, gangs, burglary, grand theft auto, etc., and yes I left prostitution off on purpose vices are not crimes.


....

A lot of the people committing those crimes are also using and/or selling drugs, prostitution included. 60% of arrestees test positive for recent drug use, 70-80% in large cities. Drug use is not a victimless crime.

eracer
05-04-2012, 14:23
A lot of the people committing those crimes are also using and/or selling drugs, prostitution included. 60% of arrestees test positive for recent drug use, 70-80% in large cities. Drug use is not a victimless crime.Except that the crime you cite is directly related to the illegality of the substances.

Make it legal and the criminal subculture shrinks to almost nothing.

Want proof? Compare bootlegging of alcohol during prohibition with crimes related to the production and distribution of alcohol today.

callihan_44
05-04-2012, 18:33
We're losing the drug war for the same reason we're losing the Afghanistan War (not to mention the wars on prostitution, rape, murder, gangs, burglary, grand theft auto, etc. despite the increasing proliferation in ballistics, fingerprinting, DNA, and surveillance cameras)...lib activists limiting the rules of engagement while demonizing the military, the police, and other members of society who choose morals and self-control over laziness and hedonism. Just because the problem isn't going away doesn't mean we should just give up though.

you forgot the war on poverty, 50+yrs and we still havent won that battle....more money more programs and maybe in another 50+ we'll have it whipped ...hope the next generation dont mind paying for :whistling: