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4Rules
05-03-2012, 11:20
Grade 12 student William Swinimer has been told he will be suspended for the rest of the school year if he returns to school Monday wearing the T-shirt, which means he likely won’t graduate.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/92094-school-board-says-jesus-t-shirts-ok
School board says Jesus T-shirts OK
May 2, 2012 - 11:06am By BEVERLEY WARE South Shore Bureau (http://thechronicleherald.ca/author/beverley-ware-south-shore-bureau-1)
But religious messages must be positive

UPDATED 7:32 a.m. Thursday
CHESTER BASIN — The South Shore regional school board is getting a human rights expert’s opinion on whether the message on a Christian student’s T-shirt is offensive to those with other beliefs.
The move came after officials at Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin suspended Grade 12 student William Swinimer for five days for wearing a T-shirt it says demeans the beliefs of others.
The suspension came after a previous in-school suspension of about 12 days.
The board is seeking the expert’s opinion in order to see if its interpretation of human rights regulations is correct, school board superintendent Nancy Pynch-Worthylake said Wednesday.
Specifically, the board is asking the expert if “a specific message communicates a personal belief that should not reasonably be considered offensive to others or whether the message could be reasonably interpreted to be disrespectful of others’ beliefs or a violation of others’ rights.”
Pynch-Worthylake said the school tried working out a solution with Swinimer before suspending him.
However, the 19-year-old says the school’s disciplinary action infringes on his right to freedom of religious expression.
“I do a lot of witnessing in school,” he said. “People talk to me and they ask me about my religion and I tell them.”
That has got him sent to the principal’s office in the past, Swinimer said.
He said his suspension came about because he wore a T-shirt that says Life is Wasted Without Jesus.
“They say that it’s hate speech and that it hurts people’s feelings, but I don’t hate anybody.”
However, Pynch-Worthylake said the wording offends some people at the school because it tells them their beliefs are wrong.
“If it said My Life is Wasted Without Jesus, that would be fine” because it expresses a personal belief, she said.
But the T-**** he wore went further by telling non-Christians their lives are wasted, she said.
The school has asked Swinimer to replace it with a shirt that communicates his Christian faith without violating others’ beliefs, but he has refused, Pynch-Worthylake said.
The school has no concerns with a student asking others if they would like to hear about his Christian message.
“We’re good with that,” Pynch-Worthylake said.
But she said it is not OK for a student to impose his or her beliefs on others who have different ideologies.
Swinimer acknowledges he could wear one of his other T-shirts that promotes Christianity, but he says he won’t.
“It’s not about the T-shirt,” he said. “It’s about stopping me from talking about my religion. The T-shirt is just the thing they got me on.
“I’m not going to back down. I’m going to stand up for my rights as a Canadian citizen.”
Pynch-Worthylake said the school is also asking a mediator to intervene to see if he can help resolve the matter.
Swinimer is a member of the Pentecostal Jesus The Good Shepherd Church in Bridgewater.
Varrick Day, the church’s pastor, said he pushed Swinimer’s family to speak up, telling them, “Your rights have been invaded here.”
He then posted Swinimer’s story on YouTube, asking people to send him money to print 100 of the shirts so he can give them to other students.
“For too long, we’ve been pushed around when it comes to our freedom of speech and freedom of religion,” Day said.
He said Christianity should be taught in schools.
“That is the problem. That is why we have so much turmoil,” Day said. “There’s so much violence right now in schools with guns and killings and racism and with bullying.
“They have taken the Ten Commandments out of schools, they have removed the Bibles from the schools, they have taken God, Jesus, out of the schools and right now the school is in a mess and we need morals, we need principles.”
Swinimer has been told he will be suspended for the rest of the school year if he returns to school Monday wearing the T-shirt, which means he likely won’t graduate.
He said the sacrifice would be worth it.
“I’m going to wear it Monday,” he said. “I have made my point, but the point is I’m not going to back down about it. This is constitutionally right.
“I’m not against anybody’s religion or culture, but at the same time, I have my own opinions. I have my own religion, and according to laws that have been around for hundreds of years, I’m allowed to express that.”


(bware@herald.ca)

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/92094-school-board-says-jesus-t-shirts-ok

void *
05-03-2012, 11:26
Makes me wonder what people's thoughts would be if that shirt said "Life is wasted with Jesus" rather than "Life is wasted without Jesus".

Would you have a problem with a school board telling a student that a shirt with "Life is wasted with Jesus" is not appropriate for wear at school because it is disrespectful towards others beliefs? Something to think about.

dbcooper
05-03-2012, 11:53
I got one with a picture of Jesus on it that says underneath

"If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing"

I wonder if that one would be ok

Roering
05-03-2012, 12:39
Looks like it happened in Canada. Can't say I'm surprised. Not sure what kind of freedom or right to speech they have over there though.

Woofie
05-03-2012, 13:33
Just shows how high a priority he thinks his education is.

Sorry, but high school isn't the place to cause problems. He was asked to not wear the shirt other students find offensive and refused. I'm sure the school has a code of conduct.

I suppose the kid would be ok with his art teacher assigning Leonard Nimoy's book of nude pregnant women as the class text?

Roering
05-03-2012, 13:57
"But the T-**** he wore went further by telling non-Christians their lives are wasted, she said."

Did she say what I think she said? :wow:

void *
05-03-2012, 15:03
Did she say what I think she said? :wow:

Would you have a problem with a school board telling a student that a shirt with "Life is wasted with Jesus" printed on it is not appropriate for wear at school because it is disrespectful towards others beliefs?

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:09
Would you have a problem with a school board telling a student that a shirt with "Life is wasted with Jesus" printed on it is not appropriate for wear at school because it is disrespectful towards others beliefs?

No

(extra characters needed to post)

void *
05-03-2012, 15:16
No

(extra characters needed to post)

Ok.

So we have a group of words A.
We have a group of words B.

A is the *same* group of words as B with the single exception that in "A", where one word is "without", that word is "with" in B.

You've stated you would not have a problem with a school board telling a student they could not wear a shirt with statement B due to it being possibly offensive.

You've also made a post that indicates some sort of shock or wonder at the idea of someone stating that statement A might possibly be offensive.

Please explain how the two statements are any different in potential to offend other than the two statements potentially offend different groups of people and you happen to agree with one of those groups.

Gunhaver
05-03-2012, 15:28
On the bright side, the student can pray all he likes while he's at home and doesn't have to be brain washed about dinosaurs and liberalism and stuff during that time thereby bringing him closer to Jesus. What's the problem? :dunno:

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:41
Ok.

So we have a group of words A.
We have a group of words B.

A is the *same* group of words as B with the single exception that in "A", where one word is "without", that word is "with" in B.

So far so good. For you this is rather impressive.


You've stated you would not have a problem with a school board telling a student they could not wear a shirt with statement B due to it being possibly offensive.

True


You've also made a post that indicates some sort of shock or wonder at the idea of someone stating that statement A might possibly be offensive.

False, my shock is that they used the words from her quote to be "T-****" the fact that they used asterisks and that there are not enough of them to spell the word "shirt" makes me wonder if she used another (off color) term.

If so I find it ironic/shocking that while someone finds the shirt offensive they would describe it as T-sh** to a reporter.

If that is what happened.


Please explain how the two statements are any different in potential to offend other than the two statements potentially offend different groups of people and you happen to agree with one of those groups.

I don't think they are.

Then again, if you are a mathematician you must understand that making a false assumption generally leads you to a false conclusion. :rofl:

void *
05-03-2012, 15:42
So far so good. For you this is rather impressive.

Ahh, the ad-hom in the first response. I suppose that for you this is expected.

You've never seen anyone accidentally miss a letter when typing? I don't find it shocking that such a typo would be present. Then again, I suppose you might say that I'm making an assumption that it's a typo. (I find it more likely that it's a typo, than the person quoted actually used the expletive that GT *'d out, and given that when you actually read the article it's not a direct quote but a paraphrase).

I don't think they are.

Good.

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:47
Ahh, the ad-hom in the first response. I suppose that for you this is expected.

Actually I was genuinely impressed you got this far.

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:48
Ahh, the ad-hom in the first response. I suppose that for you this is expected.

You've never seen anyone accidentally miss a letter when typing? I don't find it shocking that such a typo would be present. Then again, I suppose you might say that I'm making an assumption that it's a typo. (I find it more likely that it's a typo, than the person quoted actually used the expletive that GT *'d out, and given that when you actually read the article it's not a direct quote but a paraphrase).



Good.

It's not just the miss in count of asterisks, it's that they would also asterisk it in the first place.

Why would they asterisk "shirt"

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:50
I got one with a picture of Jesus on it that says underneath

"If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing"

I wonder if that one would be ok

Huh, I never looked at it that way.

Lone Wolf8634
05-03-2012, 15:50
It's not just the miss in count of asterisks, it's that they would also asterisk it in the first place.

Why would they asterisk "shirt"

If there is a typo, GT would do the asterisking..(is that even a word?)

void *
05-03-2012, 15:50
Pardon me while I don't believe that, Roering, given the attitude evoked by your response to me.

If it comes to that, I suppose I'm sorry for giving you enough credit to realize that it was most likely a typo, given that you've used the opportunity to apparently attempt to insult, etc.

void *
05-03-2012, 15:50
If there is a typo, GT would do the asterisking..(is that even a word?)

GT *did* the asterisking, in the original article it is not asterisked. Search for 'But the T-' in the actual article.

Lone Wolf8634
05-03-2012, 15:53
GT *did* the asterisking, in the original article it is not asterisked. Search for 'But the T-' in the actual article.


You are correct.

Its actually kinda funny.

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:55
If there is a typo, GT would do the asterisking..(is that even a word?)

I clicked on the article to read it from there.

It does say T-(excrement)

Although, the original article may have just missed the "r".

Either way, kind of funny.

Bugs me now though that I don't know what she actually said.

Roering
05-03-2012, 15:57
Pardon me while I don't believe that, Roering, given the attitude evoked by your response to me.

If it comes to that, I suppose I'm sorry for giving you enough credit to realize that it was most likely a typo, given that you've used the opportunity to apparently attempt to insult, etc.

I'm sorry Void. I should be more patient with you. I'll try to be going forward.

4Rules
05-07-2012, 13:48
“He will not attend this school unless they are having readin', writin' and 'rithmetic, good old-fashioned academics. When they're having forums, when they're having other extra curricular activities, he will not attend that school. ... The taxpayer is paying for him to learn his academics as well as the other students and I am not standing for any of this stuff.”
http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/93698-dad-pulls-jesus-t-shirt-student-out-of-school
Dad pulls Jesus T-shirt student out of school
May 7, 2012 - 10:07am By BEVERLEY WARE South Shore Bureau (http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/author/beverley-ware-south-shore-bureau-1)

UPDATED 12:05 p.m. Monday
Students at Forest Heights Community School in Chester Grant are discussing religious beliefs and freedom of speech today, but William Swinimer, the student who sparked the debate, isn't part of that discussion.
His father, John Swinimer, pulled him out of the school when he arrived this morning following a five-day suspension for wearing a T-shirt that said Life is Wasted Without Jesus.
John Swinimer said neither his son nor his daughter will return while such debates are going on.
“He will not attend this school unless they are having readin', writin' and 'rithmetic, good old-fashioned academics. When they're having forums, when they're having other extra curricular activities, he will not attend that school. ... The taxpayer is paying for him to learn his academics as well as the other students and I am not standing for any of this stuff.”
William Swinimer showed up at school this morning wearing the yellow T-shirt that has garnered him national attention, but moments later his father angrily strode across the school parking lot, waved his copy of The New Testament at the media, and told them he's pulling his son out of school.
John Swinimer accused the school district and the province of being anti-Christian, and said his three children have been bullied at the school because of their beliefs.
When asked what's wrong with having his son take part in the debate, John Swinimer said, “It is time that we rise up. I am not taking questions right now. I am making statements.”
When another reporter asked him if he intends to pull William out of school permanently, or just while the discussions are being held, he said, “I'm making a statement here, I'm not answering questions. ... If you overstep my boundaries I'm going to get in the car and leave,” which he did a short time later with his son in the front passenger seat.
The 19-year-old, who has done national media interviews and whose story has been broadcast across North America, had no comment.
“As a parent, I'm making this decision,” John Swinimer said.
School board superintendent Nancy Pynch-Worthylake said she is “very disappointed” William Swinimer will not take part in the discussions today. The voluntary discussions involve facilitators from the education and justice departments, human rights commission, school board and the school.
“We had hoped William could be a part of that and could understand that there is a lot of empathy, that there is tolerance in this school, and that we would like to be able to move beyond this,” said school board chairwoman Judith Sullivan-Corney, who showed up at the school this morning to offer her support to students and staff.
Grade 10 student Riley Gibb-Smith said the situation is about far more than a T-shirt slogan.
“This thing never was about a shirt. ... He's telling kids they'll burn in hell if they don't confess themselves to Jesus, he's said that,” Riley said
He is an exchange student from Australia and said Swinimer approached him on his third day at his new school. He said Swinimer frequently preaches to kids and won't stop when they tell him they've had enough.
Student council vice-president Katelyn Hiltz said she fully supports the school suspending Swinimer after he had been told repeatedly that some students were upset by his proselytizing and found his shirt offensive.
“I mean, a school is a place to feel safe and welcome and comfortable and if he's going to make them feel their life is wasted without Jesus, they're not going to feel comfortable, and they're not going to feel welcome, they're not going to feel safe, so they're just not going to want to be here anymore.”
Katelyn said the situation has needlessly hurt the school and distracted students who are writing advanced placement exams today.


(bware@herald.ca)


http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/93698-dad-pulls-jesus-t-shirt-student-out-of-school

Roering
05-07-2012, 15:12
“He will not attend this school unless they are having readin', writin' and 'rithmetic, good old-fashioned academics. When they're having forums, when they're having other extra curricular activities, he will not attend that school. ... The taxpayer is paying for him to learn his academics as well as the other students and I am not standing for any of this stuff.”
http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/93698-dad-pulls-jesus-t-shirt-student-out-of-school

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Brucev
05-07-2012, 15:49
Canada? Enough said. But in reality, no worse than kalifornia or any other similar blue state.

Kingarthurhk
05-07-2012, 16:03
Canada? Enough said. But in reality, no worse than kalifornia or any other similar blue state.

Canada is pretty restrictive about what you can own, or even say in public. They do not possess the same freedoms we do.

Mister_Beefy
05-07-2012, 17:49
Just shows how high a priority he thinks his education is.

Sorry, but high school isn't the place to cause problems. He was asked to not wear the shirt other students find offensive and refused. I'm sure the school has a code of conduct.

I suppose the kid would be ok with his art teacher assigning Leonard Nimoy's book of nude pregnant women as the class text?


so rights should only be exercised when deemed appropriate by the authorities... got it.

AA#5
05-07-2012, 18:01
If I were a student, I'd look at the shirt & chuckle to myself.

I agree with the school. Wanna preach? Do it in church.

Lone Wolf8634
05-07-2012, 21:14
I could care less about the shirt. If you can be so offended by some words on a shirt, you need to grow a pair.

The fact that he annoyed people by preaching at them would bother me more.

void *
05-07-2012, 23:54
Interesting point. These are high school students, many of whom are presumably still in the process of growing their pair. ;)

(It kind of surprises me that the kid is 19, actually, although I don't know how school is set up in Canada)

janice6
05-08-2012, 00:03
Change the name to Mohammad and see what happens.

G23Gen4TX
05-08-2012, 01:24
Canada is pretty restrictive about what you can own, or even say in public. They do not possess the same freedoms we do.

Send the troops. Save them from their ignorance.

Roering
05-08-2012, 09:57
Canada is pretty restrictive about what you can own, or even say in public. They do not possess the same freedoms we do.

I live in CA and sadly, it's just about as restrictive here.

You must live in one of those "free" States.

Yeah, I'm a little Jealous.....

English
05-08-2012, 13:47
Christian student suspended for five days for wearing a Jesus T-shirt

Right on! Was he suspended by his ankles or his thumbs. Oh no. I suppose that would only apply to a student wearing a T shirt saying "There is no God and if there was he would be disgusting" in a religious college.

Kingarthurhk
05-08-2012, 15:04
Christian student suspended for five days for wearing a Jesus T-shirt

Right on! Was he suspended by his ankles or his thumbs. Oh no. I suppose that would only apply to a student wearing a T shirt saying "There is no God and if there was he would be disgusting" in a religious college.

I tried deciphering the above, and still can't make heads or tails of the message intended.

English
05-09-2012, 01:29
I tried deciphering the above, and still can't make heads or tails of the message intended.

I was just being flipant and playing with the meaning of suspended which also means hung up, as in suspended from a hook. So then I was suggesting that a man wearing a Jesus T shirt should be hung up but then there is the problem of by what.

It was no more than a mild joke. I actually believe everyone should have the right to wear a Jesus T shirt even if I do find it distasteful.

English

Brasso
05-09-2012, 06:18
If the shirt had said Allah (or any other deity) instead of Jesus, nothing would have been said.

Brucev
05-09-2012, 06:50
This just in... http://www.cbc.ca/news/ .

Imagine that! The school board exercises common sense. What a drag for the exclusionists. Yea... what a drag. So sad.

On the other hand... how interesting. Freedom even of religion applies to even (shock) Christians. Very cool.

English
05-10-2012, 03:19
This just in... http://www.cbc.ca/news/ .

Imagine that! The school board exercises common sense. What a drag for the exclusionists. Yea... what a drag. So sad.

On the other hand... how interesting. Freedom even of religion applies to even (shock) Christians. Very cool.

And so it should and must!

English

Kingarthurhk
05-10-2012, 04:51
I was just being flipant and playing with the meaning of suspended which also means hung up, as in suspended from a hook. So then I was suggesting that a man wearing a Jesus T shirt should be hung up but then there is the problem of by what.

It was no more than a mild joke. I actually believe everyone should have the right to wear a Jesus T shirt even if I do find it distasteful.

English

I believe in religious liberty for all people, even Atheists.