Do you have a gun in the house? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Vic777
05-05-2012, 03:51
From an e-mail I received
***********************


What you permit , you promote...Received this from a friend and wanted to pass it along.

When I had my gangrene gallbladder taken out and spent 10 days in the hospital for what should have been an overnight stay the insurance company kicked me out. I had home nurse visits for two weeks and was asked if I had guns in the house. I respond that if I did I would not tell them. So the below has some merit.

FYI, I am passing this along...there are comments from two other people. I have also been asked if we keep guns in the house. The nurse just kinda slipped it in along with all the other regular questions. I told her I refused to answer because it was against the law to ask.
Everyone, whether you have guns or not, should give a neutral answer so they have no idea who does and who doesn't.

My doctor asked me if I had guns in my house and also if any were loaded. I, of course, answered yes to both questions. Then he asked why I kept a loaded gun close to my bed. I answered that my son, who is a certified gun instructor and also works for Homeland Security, advised me that an unloaded, locked up gun is no protection against criminal attack.

The Government now requires these questions be asked of people on Medicare, and probably everyone else.

Just passing this along for your information: I had to visit a doctor other than my regular doctor when my doctor was on vacation.. One of the questions on the form I had to fill out was: Do you have any guns in your house?? My answer was None of your damn business!!
So it is out there! It is either an insurance issue or government intervention. Either way, it is out there and the second the government gets into your medical records (as they want to under Obamacare) it will become a major issue and will ultimately result in lock and load!!

Please pass this on to all the other retired guys and gun owners...Thanks, from a Vietnam Vet and retired Police Officer: I had a doctors appointment at the local VA clinic yesterday and found out something very interesting that I would like to pass along. While going through triage before seeing the doctor, I was asked at the end of the exam, three questions:1. Did I feel stressed? 2. Did I feel threatened? 3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?
The nurse then informed me, that if I had answered yes to any of the questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone into my medical records and the VA would have reported it to Homeland Security.
Looks like they are going after the vets first. Other gun people like retired law enforcement will probably be next. Then when they go after the civilians, what argument will they have? Be forewarned and be aware. The Obama administration has gone on record as considering veterans and gun owners potential terrorists. Whether you are a gun owner, veteran or not, YOU’VE BEEN WARNED !
If you know veterans and gun owners, please pass this on to them. Be very cautious about what you say and to whom.

Agonizer
05-05-2012, 04:01
When asked, just say no. Nothing else.


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Guss
05-05-2012, 05:54
Suicide is a major cause of death, and guns are the most favored method. If a doctor is not inquiring about these things, particularly if you are older with a lot of gripes, he is not doing his duty.

But as for the chain letter you are circulating, you'd best check Snopes before you relay the next one. There's a lot of baloney in there.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp

JBnTX
05-05-2012, 06:01
I make regular visits to the Dallas VA hospital and I've never been asked about guns in my home.

If ever asked, I'll just say no and leave it at that.

By refusing to answer or making a big deal of it, you're just drawing attention to yourself.

It's NOT illegal for them to ask you any question they want to.

I too question the "validity" of that letter.

pipedreams
05-05-2012, 06:19
If ever asked, I'll just say no and leave it at that.

By refusing to answer or making a big deal of it, you're just drawing attention to yourself.

It's NOT illegal for them to ask you any question they want to.

I too question the "validity" of that letter.

I agree, don't draw attention to yourself.

aircarver
05-05-2012, 06:26
If it's not illegal for them to ask, it's not illegal to lie ... :supergrin:

.

The Machinist
05-05-2012, 07:00
Back in 2010, after a bout with endocarditis, I had a cute nurse come to my house once a week to tend to the PICC line I had in my arm. A shame she was already married, but I digress.

Anyway, we got to talking about guns, and I showed off a few of my favorites, and my reloading setup. She regaled me with shooting range stories of her and her husband showing no mercy on those paper targets. :supergrin:

I'm not sure when the "be hostile to guns" policy came into effect, but I doubt she would have ever bothered to ask. :cool:

sbhaven
05-05-2012, 07:26
Suicide is a major cause of death, and guns are the most favored method. If a doctor is not inquiring about these things, particularly if you are older with a lot of gripes, he is not doing his duty.

It should be noted that while firearms may be the most favored method for committing suicide. According to the NIH (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml) among women, poising is the favored method rather than firearms.

Firearms - Males: 56% - Females: 30%
Suffocation - Males: 24% - Females: 21%
Poisoning - Males: 13% - Females: 40%

If a doctor suspects his/her patient is suicidal they should ask questions, including if one has access to firearms, to help flesh out their diagnosis.

For some reason people believe emails they get from others without checking on Snopes or Truthorfiction.com first. All to often we have people who rush in to firearm forums and start an; “ZOMG look what I got in my email, they are coming for our guns!!!!“ thread. The IRS will tax guns (Handgun Safety and Registration Act (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/taxreturns.asp)) chain email is a perfect example. Even though it’s been toughly debunked it still gets posted from time to time.

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 07:52
Suicide is a major cause of death, and guns are the most favored method. If a doctor is not inquiring about these things, particularly if you are older with a lot of gripes, he is not doing his duty.

But as for the chain letter you are circulating, you'd best check Snopes before you relay the next one. There's a lot of baloney in there.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp

Guns are not the most favored method. They are a particularly effective method though. But so is jumping from a height of 100 feet or more onto pavement. This was twisted by the AMA, a very liberal organization, to claim that firearms in the house are a risk factor for suicide. I don't know about you, but I've never become despondent when looking at the guns in my house.

Now, one of the groups of patients I take care of regularly are cirrhotics. As that particular disease progresses, hepatic encephalopathy occurs. The brain does not function well in that situation, and decision making suffers. I have asked about guns in that situation, and recommended that the patient understand that they are no longer physically able to handle them, and that their wife, son, daughter etc. should be the one charged with defending the home. If the patient accidentally shot one of his loved ones, it would be a tragedy for him, and once I explain that he may not know he is mentally impaired, and could easily do something terribly tragic if he insists on still having access to firearms. It's still his choice, but I tell him that I am documenting that conversation in detail in his record.

If I was ever mandated to ask if patients had guns in the home on a routine basis, I would comply. I have to keep my job. But for the ones that didn't, I'd inquire about how much experience they had with firearms and suggest appropriate guns and calibers to consider once they finally decided that it would be a good idea to have one. I can recommend several gun safety and home protection instructors too.

:whistling:

Natty
05-05-2012, 08:33
Mistakes by medical professionals kill more people than guns in the US every year.

JBnTX
05-05-2012, 08:41
Mistakes by medical professionals kill more people than guns in the US every year.


If that's true, then they should be asking if you have a doctor in your house.

:rofl:

..

Naelbis
05-05-2012, 09:07
I've never been asked if I have guns in my house...I have been asked if i feel safe though or if I feel like people want to harm me.

Vic777
05-05-2012, 09:28
It should be noted that while firearms may be the most favored method for committing suicide.Drunk Driving is far and away the most popular method for suicide in the USA, and even more so in Nations without guns.

Marcus71
05-05-2012, 09:29
It's BS, one of those bogus email chain letters: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp

Vic777
05-05-2012, 09:32
It's BS, one of those bogus email chain letters: It's good to be prepared, to know what lie to tell when Obama's Private Army comes to the door. Expect them any time after Nov 06, if he steals the election.

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 09:41
Drunk Driving is far and away the most popular method for suicide in the USA, and even more so in Nations without guns.

Tobacco. The Native Americans paid us back for those small pox blankets.

Cancers: Bladder, lung, colon, esophageal, larynx, other head and neck structures including the gums and the tongue.
Diseases that cause death: Emphysema, Chronic bronchitis, Heart disease, stroke, other forms of COPD.

If I get 350 miles away from Mrs. Cavalry Doc, I'm allowed to smoke, otherwise, I catch hell. It's a small price to pay to make a pretty woman happy. :whistling:

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 09:47
It's BS, one of those bogus email chain letters: http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp

I can tell you it is a prominent part of a suicide assessment.

The AMA is also in favor of asking. That part of it is not a hoax.

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2011/07/04/prsh0704.htm

Gov. Rick Scott on June 1 signed the first-of-its-kind law into effect over vocal opposition from physician organizations. Under the law, physicians who ask patients harassing questions about gun ownership, enter unnecessary information about such ownership in medical records or discriminate against gun-owning patients could be referred to the state medical board for possible sanctions.

The law contradicts professional guidelines on counseling parents about the dangers to children who live in homes with unsecured guns, impedes doctor-patient communications and violates physicians' First Amendment rights, delegates said.

It actually looks like they are against restrictions that stop them from harassing patients, entering unnecessary information into their medical records, and want to discriminate against gun owning patients.

Oh, and notice this is from the AMA's web site, not GOA.

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 09:53
Mistakes by medical professionals kill more people than guns in the US every year.

Just like all statistics, they can say anything you want them too.

If a patient dies, is it always someone's fault? Not trying to play "gotcha", so I'll let you know a secret no one wants to talk about. All patients die eventually. Every single one.
It's like some sort of a rule or something. Even if you receive the highest quality health care, and every decision is based on strongly supported evidence based information, you are going to die. Get ready for it. :wavey:

:wavey:

Here's a funny article on it, that just happens to be spot on.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/world-death-rate-holding-steady-at-100-percent,1670/

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/1670/onion_news2364_jpg_600x1000_q85.jpg

Glockdude1
05-05-2012, 10:24
No, I don't have "A" gun in my house........:whistling:

smokin762
05-05-2012, 11:03
No, I don't have "A" gun in my house........:whistling:

:supergrin:

madbaumer
05-05-2012, 11:11
I would be kinda hard for me to lie about it. My Dr, his family, my family, his nurses and their families all belong to the same private range.

ETA...Cav Doc...he and I have been known to indulge in a fine cigar at the range.

sdsnet
05-05-2012, 11:14
If ever asked, I'll just say no and leave it at that.

By refusing to answer or making a big deal of it, you're just drawing attention to yourself.

It's NOT illegal for them to ask you any question they want to.


This. "Just say no"

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 12:57
I would be kinda hard for me to lie about it. My Dr, his family, my family, his nurses and their families all belong to the same private range.

ETA...Cav Doc...he and I have been known to indulge in a fine cigar at the range.

I'll be out shooting with another PA (CPT, USA Ret.), a Psychiatrist (CPT, USN Ret.) and an Engineer (SFC, soon to be Ret., and a childhood friend) tomorrow.

Punching holes in paper, and planning on a hog hunt on land I haven't been on before.

NDCent
05-05-2012, 13:13
Just like all statistics, they can say anything you want them too.

If a patient dies, is it always someone's fault? Not trying to play "gotcha", so I'll let you know a secret no one wants to talk about. All patients die eventually. Every single one.
It's like some sort of a rule or something. Even if you receive the highest quality health care, and every decision is based on strongly supported evidence based information, you are going to die. Get ready for it. :wavey:

:wavey:

Here's a funny article on it, that just happens to be spot on.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/world-death-rate-holding-steady-at-100-percent,1670/

http://o.onionstatic.com/images/articles/article/1670/onion_news2364_jpg_600x1000_q85.jpg
Well hell, I guess I'll go ahead and have that bacon cheeseburger. :faint:

oldman11
05-05-2012, 13:22
Suicide is a major cause of death, and guns are the most favored method. If a doctor is not inquiring about these things, particularly if you are older with a lot of gripes, he is not doing his duty.

But as for the chain letter you are circulating, you'd best check Snopes before you relay the next one. There's a lot of baloney in there.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/medicare.asp
Just because SNOPES says it's false doesn't make it so.

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 13:23
Well hell, I guess I'll go ahead and have that bacon cheeseburger. :faint:

Dot forget, there are three kinds of lies:
1. Lies
2. Damn Lies
3. Statistics

Before you have that bacon cheeseburger, assess your current lipid status, your family history, and your age. Everything is a risk/benefit ratio, and you should look at life expectancy stats.

That being said, I have a deal with the Mrs., if I reach 85, I get to have bacon 3 meals a day. http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/221/b/6/_bacon__by_kyogi_kasshu.gif

janice6
05-05-2012, 13:27
It's nobody's business, including yours. Doctors can KMA with questions non-related to my visit.

Cavalry Doc
05-05-2012, 13:52
There is a point that it becomes pertinent. If the patient is suicidal, then it is something that should be asked. It could be the difference between admission and sending them home. That being said, if you want to suck on a 12 gauge, I consider that a personal decision, as long as you are in control of your wits, and explain it to your family. There are times, when a reasonable person would take that route. However, I consider it cowardly in most cases. As a student, I bagged (breathed for) a guy that had shot himself in the head with a .25 auto over a marital problem. Ironically, he was a division chaplains assistant. No note, no real reason other than he was emotionally in pain. I bagged him while his children and grandchildren came in to kiss him goodbye. I'm still a little pissed at that guy for what he put his family through.


In a routine, non-psych visit, it's an unwarranted intrusion. I was asked this question at a visit at my own primary care Doc's office, I asked the nurse if there were any particular caliber or type of weapon they were looking for? She didn't have an answer for that, and I calmly told her she didn't need to worry about it, because I was one of the good guys, and a committed pacifist as long as I am given the choice, but I had two in the truck in the parking lot.

She was cool with it, and told me that she wasn't going to write any of that in the record, because she had her own concealed carry weapon in her own car in the parking lot. I did convince her to get an automobile gun lock box.

This is Texas, and guns are generally as common as pocket knives. Not much different than an epi-pen. Not something you look forward to using, but something you want to have on hand if the situation to need one arises.

HexHead
05-06-2012, 08:28
No, I don't have "A" gun in my house........:whistling:

Exactly.

aircarver
05-06-2012, 08:34
..... This is Texas, and guns are generally as common as pocket knives. Not much different than an epi-pen. Not something you look forward to using, but something you want to have on hand if the situation to need one arises.

"In Texas, even mah florist has a gun" .....


:outtahere::supergrin:

.

TheJ
05-06-2012, 08:36
If I were asked by a physician, I would explain that I beleive that inquiry is a boundary violation and let them know to move on to other questions.

walt cowan
05-07-2012, 06:35
If it's not illegal for them to ask, it's not illegal to lie ... :supergrin:

.

thats very true. the best ansewer to those questions is
"i have nothing to say."

Guss
05-07-2012, 07:28
Just because SNOPES says it's false doesn't make it so.
Even Snopes will tell you that. They keep a list of their mistakes. Not many there.

LoadToadBoss
05-07-2012, 08:17
It's nobody's business, including yours. Doctors can KMA with questions non-related to my visit.
Sometimes it might be relevant when assessing an in-home patient.

When I worked in hospice, we cared for terminally ill patients in their own home. One day one of our CNAs was changing the bedding of a patient. As she was removing the bed sheets, a loaded revolver pulled out from under the mattress and fell to the floor. The poor girl ran screaming from the home and refused to go back. We had a male CNA who was a gun guy and the clinical director assigned him to the patient and all was good.

We had another patient that kept a loaded AK-47 buy his bed. (He lived way out in the country.) When the social worker did the initial assessment, he knew that any staff who went there needed to be comfortable with a gun in the home out in the open. We weren't going to tell the patient he could have the gun out; we needed to make appropriate staffing decisions round it.

As a retired military guy (and gun aficionado), I was asked to do an in-service training for our medical staff to help demystify guns. A little information goes a long way to alleviating fears.

F350
05-07-2012, 08:44
If you ask my doctor; I don't drink or smoke (quality cigars) and if the question ever comes up I'm a member of The Brady Bunch.

If the gun question ever does come up ANYTHING other than a straight NO will likely be entered in your records as a YES; get cute with your answers, quote the constitution, claim invasion of privacy etc.....Doesn't matter the little YES box will be marked next to "Are there firearms in the household?"