Suggest a bulls eye 22 for $300 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ithaca_deerslayer
05-07-2012, 11:27
Any suggestions for a good, and affordable, .22 handgun for bulls eye competition?

I'm thinking maybe a Ruger 22/45, only based on trying one from 15 years ago that someone else let me try for a few competitions. I don't know if they are stock good nowadays or not.

Will be red dotted.

Is $300 too low a purchase price for a good gun?

Here's where me and my wife are right now:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7095/7004448296_f195147883_b.jpg

The above 10 shot targets are from shooting 1 handed with this hard trigger top heavy grip mounted 2206 at 50 feet. The below pic with the gun shows a 1 handed 5 shot group on left at 50 feet, and the right target is 2 handed 25 yards just for the fun of it.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/6931819428_e1aaaf45c1_b.jpg

Any suggestions on an affordable good shooter that will help us in trying to close up our bulls eye groups a little bit? She is new at it (new at this particular type of 1 handed shooting), so her groups will probably soon close on their own. My groups are stuck :rofl:

railfancwb
05-07-2012, 12:42
The latest 22/45s can accept regular 1911 grips, have a Picitinny(sp) rail on the receiver, and the barrel is threaded. Magazine release is placed for the right hand thumb behind the trigger guard. Definitely a contender. Charles


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Alizard
05-07-2012, 13:28
Just buy a nice used Ruger Mk II. You will love it.

Cwlongshot
05-07-2012, 13:55
I agree. Go for a used Rugwr MKII or III bull.

Great guns lots of support for better grips and triggers and cheap mags.
I have been shooting bullseye for 25 years and many will work but $ for $ this are a excellent choice!

CW

mdisher
05-07-2012, 14:21
22/45...

Should you decide later that you want to shoot steel or other disciplines that require a speedy reload, the 22/45 is *much easier*. Not saying it can't be done with a plain old Mark II but it's easier with a 22/25.

guncats
05-07-2012, 15:27
Ruger will require trigger upgrade, so it will be over the $300 limit.

A used buckmark fits the budget better.

However, pretty soon you will probably upgrade to either the SW41 or somekind of vintage highstandard or browning. Might as well to go all-out right away and save the headaches.

vafish
05-07-2012, 15:40
If you are just shooting bullseye .22, I'd see if cdnn still had any ow the walther sp22 m3 or m4 pistols left in stock.

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concretefuzzynuts
05-07-2012, 16:04
I agree. Go for a used Rugwr MKII or III bull. CW

This.

ithaca_deerslayer
05-07-2012, 16:42
Ruger will require trigger upgrade, so it will be over the $300 limit.

A used buckmark fits the budget better.

However, pretty soon you will probably upgrade to either the SW41 or somekind of vintage highstandard or browning. Might as well to go all-out right away and save the headaches.

$300 is just a goal approximation for the purchase price. Upgrades on tgat basic gun could come later if needed.

Is the stock Ruger trigger terrible, or is it usable as is? Is a trigger job a drop in new aftermarket trigger, or is it a gunsmithing thing?

Used isn't likely unless I tripped over one in a gun store.

Seems a big jump to the price of a 41 :)

ithaca_deerslayer
05-07-2012, 16:47
If you are just shooting bullseye .22, I'd see if cdnn still had any ow the walther sp22 m3 or m4 pistols left in stock.

Why would they be out of stock?

I've never heard of this pistol so I looked it up, here.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=65150&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=48316&isFirearm=Y

concretefuzzynuts
05-07-2012, 17:04
I have found the mrk III for around $300 in the local gun trader. As far as trigger, a lot can be done to improve any trigger is just polishing the works. You don't need a gunsmith for that. I don't think the trigger is bad anyway. But for bullseye you'd need to have trigger work done on most anything you buy for that price.

Titurel
05-07-2012, 17:04
$300 is just a goal approximation for the purchase price. Upgrades on tgat basic gun could come later if needed.

Is the stock Ruger trigger terrible, or is it usable as is? Is a trigger job a drop in new aftermarket trigger, or is it a gunsmithing thing?

Used isn't likely unless I tripped over one in a gun store.

Seems a big jump to the price of a 41 :)

Its a drop in part (sear) for the Mklll trigger upgrade, although the disassembly is a bit involved. It doesn't take any particular skill but you have to study up before hand. While you're in there you can also take out the magazine disconnect and replace it with a washer (this is assuming an Mklll) and of course yank out the LCI/dirt collector. It is absolutely worth the $25 to do this upgrade.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/380716/volquartsen-target-sear-ruger-mark-ii-mark-iii-22-45-stainless-steel

concretefuzzynuts
05-07-2012, 17:06
Here are some at GunsAmerica.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.htm?T=ruger+mark+III

tjpet
05-08-2012, 20:52
For under $300, simple answer - a S&W 22a-1. Accurate, very simple takedown, good trigger, adjustable sights, built-in rail and you'll have $50 leftover for ammo. It's one of the best bang-for-your-bucks firearms in the shooting world today. And from what I've seen the only difference between it and a S&W 41 is the shooter pulling the trigger.

guncats
05-08-2012, 22:37
$300 is just a goal approximation for the purchase price. Upgrades on tgat basic gun could come later if needed.

Is the stock Ruger trigger terrible, or is it usable as is? Is a trigger job a drop in new aftermarket trigger, or is it a gunsmithing thing?

Used isn't likely unless I tripped over one in a gun store.

Seems a big jump to the price of a 41 :)


By buying a better gun, you can get the same accuracy out of cheaper ammo, you end up saving $$ in the long run. if you get to save 1 cent per round, assuming you shoot 200rd per week, that is $100 saving on ammo per year. I am sure the SW41 lasts a lot longer than 7 years. :cool:


SW41 might look like a lot of $ for now, but if you are serious about the game, I predict you WILL get one in less than one ear. :cool:

ithaca_deerslayer
05-09-2012, 05:49
By buying a better gun, you can get the same accuracy out of cheaper ammo, you end up saving $$ in the long run. if you get to save 1 cent per round, assuming you shoot 200rd per week, that is $100 saving on ammo per year. I am sure the SW41 lasts a lot longer than 7 years. :cool:


SW41 might look like a lot of $ for now, but if you are serious about the game, I predict you WILL get one in less than one ear. :cool:

We might hold off a year. It is good to get all the opinions here. Also will be good if my wife gets into bulls eye and tries some other setups along the way.

My "buy now cheap" intention was just to make it more enjoyable, by helping her to shoot better. But we can wait a year.

Maybe then it will be a 41, or a Beretta 87, or whatever. Or maybe we will stumble across a good deal on a 22/45 :)

Cwlongshot
05-09-2012, 06:40
Ok couple more things...

The shooter makes the shots. A good shooter is just that a person that shoots good the gun doesn't make that happen the shooter does. To achieve that you need allot of practice! If your in a club or joining a club pay attention to what peoples scores are. Then once you know who the good shooters are watch what they do.

The best shooters know consistancy is tantamount to good scores. You get there by creating good habits to start with. Find someone who knows whats going on and is willing to show you. Breathing, stance, trigger control and sight alignment are all working toga that to put hits on paper in The scoring rings.

Practice practice practice is worlds more important than what you shoot.

I like the 22/45 for what it is. A plinker. Same as the 22a S&W. But they are too light for serious bullseye. Again look around at what others are shooting. I gaurenty top shooters will have a European pistol. Maybe some older gents will still be shooting High Standards. A couple may have a S&W 41. But none will have Mosquitos, trail sides. Neos, 22/45's or S&W 22A pistols or 22 conversions on CF pistols. There is good reason for that.

The Browning or Ruger are excellent choices. I recommended the Ruger because the after market supports it very well and a new shooter can go a long way with one. A additional choice but one that's more and more costly is a used high standard. But you should look at the better models. Again Harder to find and more costly.
There are a couple good 1911 22 conversions that can be made to shoot very well but you will be over your budget.

Around here a good used Ruger MKII is under $300 easy. YES the factory trigger is entirely useable AS IS! Get a grip first. Bullseye is one handed and a good grip is important.


I have been at this game a long time, I have had this conversation over a hundred times thru the years. It's a great sport and one that pays off in spades for all shooting sports.

Best of luck with it,
CW

eyelikeglasses
05-09-2012, 17:34
I'll just go ahead and say it.
"Just save the extra $10,000 up, get something made in gold. Trust me."
:upeyes::wavey:
I bet a pawn shop would have a used Mk II for a bit under budget.

ithaca_deerslayer
05-09-2012, 18:33
Ok couple more things...

The shooter makes the shots. A good shooter is just that a person that shoots good the gun doesn't make that happen the shooter does. To achieve that you need allot of practice! If your in a club or joining a club pay attention to what peoples scores are. Then once you know who the good shooters are watch what they do.

The best shooters know consistancy is tantamount to good scores. You get there by creating good habits to start with. Find someone who knows whats going on and is willing to show you. Breathing, stance, trigger control and sight alignment are all working toga that to put hits on paper in The scoring rings.

Practice practice practice is worlds more important than what you shoot.

I like the 22/45 for what it is. A plinker. Same as the 22a S&W. But they are too light for serious bullseye. Again look around at what others are shooting. I gaurenty top shooters will have a European pistol. Maybe some older gents will still be shooting High Standards. A couple may have a S&W 41. But none will have Mosquitos, trail sides. Neos, 22/45's or S&W 22A pistols or 22 conversions on CF pistols. There is good reason for that.

The Browning or Ruger are excellent choices. I recommended the Ruger because the after market supports it very well and a new shooter can go a long way with one. A additional choice but one that's more and more costly is a used high standard. But you should look at the better models. Again Harder to find and more costly.
There are a couple good 1911 22 conversions that can be made to shoot very well but you will be over your budget.

Around here a good used Ruger MKII is under $300 easy. YES the factory trigger is entirely useable AS IS! Get a grip first. Bullseye is one handed and a good grip is important.


I have been at this game a long time, I have had this conversation over a hundred times thru the years. It's a great sport and one that pays off in spades for all shooting sports.

Best of luck with it,
CW

I posted the targets, and the gun, so you can see where we are right now. Those are slower paced shots, maybe making the 4 seconds per shot; mine are maybe too slow.

In one thought you seem to be saying buy a more expensive gun; but in another thought you are saying buy a less expensive gun because it is just the shooter that is important.

So, looking at those targets, do we need to bother with a better gun yet, or do we just need a plinker to work on developing better skills with first?

RedHaze
05-09-2012, 19:21
I may be biased, but I vote for an other Hi Standard that's floating around.

My HD Military is scary accurate with match ammo. They can be found for not much more than your benchmark. Couple on GB now and then.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/7222_1126123876469_1328317000_30332169_2358885_n.jpg

And there's a Lightweight Sport King on GB right now at ~$350
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=285784341

It's certainly got some wear, but I'd bet money any day of the week it's a great shooter!

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/285784000/285784341/pix928404116.jpg

bac1023
05-09-2012, 21:45
I love the Ruger Mark series.

Cwlongshot
05-10-2012, 07:33
Sorry for the confusion.

When i said most established shooters or higher scoring shooters will have expensive European target guns, I was saying, no one uses the cheap model plinkers. It was a Poor choice of words and example. I should have said look at what newer shooters are using. The guys that choose the cheapest models quickly change to what we are suggesting. Ruger MK II/III, Buck Marks, Challangers or older used High Standards or S&W 41's. Again my choice of the Ruger over the others is first it's a good gun, second it is very well supported by the aftermarket. This means you will not need to sell it off to get a better gun! You can "upgrade" what you have saving $$!

The Ruger or Browning will serve you for a long time. LATER. In your shooting carrier you when you have the $$ or know its something you will do for a long time. will likely upgrade to one of the European pieces. When you reach the point you can out shoot your pistol, THEN you should look for a better gun. 90% of the shooters out there today will never reach that goal.


Practice and establishing the fundimentals to the point they are second nature will be your best "foundation". The fancier pistols will be better appreciated at that time.

Personally I don't even worry about groups for starters. I want the shooter to work on trigger control, sights and breathing. I also feel time spent with open sites first also builds a better foundation than going straight to a red dot.

Again sorry for the confusion in my previous post.

I'm happy to help. If you want or have a spec question PM me.

CW

58duck
05-10-2012, 17:30
For under $300, simple answer - a S&W 22a-1. Accurate, very simple takedown, good trigger, adjustable sights, built-in rail and you'll have $50 leftover for ammo. It's one of the best bang-for-your-bucks firearms in the shooting world today. And from what I've seen the only difference between it and a S&W 41 is the shooter pulling the trigger.
i will agree . . . 100%

i shoot regular comp's against (2) other regulars who shoot Mark III's. i shot as well at 50 feet as they did - i had open sights and they had red dots. now that i installed my red dot, i can beat them more easily. we're all just about the same age (50). they have been shooting their whole lives - i've been shooting 14 months. (5 months with the S&W 22-A)

i would suggest looking into the S&W

vafish
05-11-2012, 19:33
Why would they be out of stock?

I've never heard of this pistol so I looked it up, here.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=65150&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=48316&isFirearm=Y


CDNN does a lot of close out and overstock sales.

Just because they have a gun in stock today doesn't mean they will have it again.

ithaca_deerslayer
05-13-2012, 20:49
Got a chance to bench rest my 2206 today. Held it against a sandbag and fired 10 shots at 50 feet. Here are the two targets I did that with. CCI standard velocity. 1.5" group and 1.75" group. Nothing great, but it shows where me and this gun are.

So feel free to post pics showing me what I should be expecting to do at 50 feet with a better gun. Or a gun I can manage to shoot better :) I welcome any of your 50 ft target pics!


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8025/7193229396_7e2c957c80_b.jpg

RedHaze
05-13-2012, 21:00
Now I gotta get out and shoot some groups!

Cwlongshot
05-14-2012, 05:46
So feel free to post pics showing me what I should be expecting to do at 50 feet with a better gun. Or a gun I can manage to shoot better I welcome any of your 50 ft target pics!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/Benellisitein.jpg

This is a open sited Ruger MKIII.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/c1384d70.jpg

This is a benched site in with this same Benelli

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/180a27a6.jpg

This last Monday was the season opener for one of our local three gun opener. This year my wife and I are going to shoot rimfire only. These are "900" matches my first was 92/98/100 10x My second was 98/98/97 13x my NM course was 89/98/97 7x for a total 867 30x. I'm shooting a Benelly MP90 with a Aimpoint dot.

Here is a couple match set targets both 50' and 25 yards

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/005-1.jpg


CW

Cwlongshot
05-14-2012, 05:47
Duplicate... CW

ithaca_deerslayer
05-14-2012, 08:00
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/Benellisitein.jpg

This is a benched site in with this same Benelli

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/CWLONGSHOT/Temp%20stuff/sporting%20pics/Targets%20and%20such/180a27a6.jpg



Love it! We should see more pics like this on the internet :)

No sarcasm. You think I can see that at my local gun club? Um, no. That's some darn good shooting.

So the bottom pic is a benched sight in. Is the top pic a one-handed slow fire at the timed pace? I think that's what you are showing me, but I just want to make sure. Do you often shoot like that, or was this 100 10x a once in a lifetime perfect score for you?

I am seriously impressed. Ok, so now I've definitely got to get a gun I can 10x with at the bench. I know I'm capable of that with the right gun. Might take a year to get it, but it will be worth the wait.

Then I'll have something to work on my one handed shooting with :)

Thanks!

Cwlongshot
05-14-2012, 09:48
My best targets to date have been a 98 In doors and 99/3x outdoors, slow fire and 100 9x timed outdoors. I have shot a hundred +- "100" targets never a 10x 100. I have seen them along with 100 slow fires just not shot one my self.

Earlier this year I shot a 900 match and never shot more than a "9" ring hit.
I have been shooting NRA bullseye since the late 1980's and teaching handgun compatancity since early '90's. Around about '96 I got my wife involved with Bullseye. In training her I began listening to my own teachings. My scores made about a 5pt jump into the high 270's and have been steady rising ever since. Last season my indoor average was about 286. (We don't count "X"'s at 50')

Practice, practice, practice! Breath hold it, let a lil out, watch that front site, squeeze!!!

CW

ithaca_deerslayer
05-14-2012, 10:24
My best targets to date have been a 98 In doors and 99/3x outdoors, slow fire and 100 9x timed outdoors. I have shot a hundred +- "100" targets never a 10x 100. I have seen them along with 100 slow fires just not shot one my self.

Earlier this year I shot a 900 match and never shot more than a "9" ring hit.
I have been shooting NRA bullseye since the late 1980's and teaching handgun compatancity since early '90's. Around about '96 I got my wife involved with Bullseye. In training her I began listening to my own teachings. My scores made about a 5pt jump into the high 270's and have been steady rising ever since. Last season my indoor average was about 286. (We don't count "X"'s at 50')

Practice, practice, practice! Breath hold it, let a lil out, watch that front site, squeeze!!!

CW

So what is that top pic target from? And what is the score on it? Looks to me like all 10 breaking the X ring. So I would have thought a 100 with 10 X's.

Don't you count X's for a tie break? That's how I've seen it done, indoors, 50ft. Two guys tied, and they count X's to see who won. But maybe that was just a local variation of the rules, I don't know.

Thanks :)

Cwlongshot
05-14-2012, 13:52
You are correct that is a 100/10x but I did not shoot it in a match. I don't count these as "real" scores. ;)

You are also correct counting "X" is for score breaking in NRA rules. When I shoot in this one league we modify NRA rules for the shooter to try to improve #'s. we use highest rapid as tie breaker. If that's the same highest timed etc...

CW