Long load .40 with a KKM barrel? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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pistolcompetitor
05-08-2012, 21:24
I have a G20 SF and a KKM .40 conversion barrel. I'm not reloading yet, so I'm looking at commercial reloaders. On this site there are standard versus long load .40 cartridges.

http://www.precisiondelta.com/product.php?cindx=14

Anyone know if one would be more reliable than the other in my setup?

B.Reid
05-08-2012, 22:26
The long loads are used in 1911's and the 2011 to improve feeding in the longer magazines, may or may not be needed in your glock. My loads are a little shorter than 10mm in a 40 case.

Yondering
05-08-2012, 23:06
Don't know about that commercial loaded stuff, but when you get to loading your own:

- With the heavier bullet weights, you can load .40 S&W long to 1.260", same as the 10mm, using 10mm load data, for 10mm ballistics. You would do this if you have a lot of .40 S&W brass and want to save the less common 10mm brass. It is safe, when done correctly.

- You need a long throated barrel to do this. I didn't see a OAL listed for the ammo at that link, so who knows if it would fit in an unmodified KKM conversion barrel? You'd think the ammo manufacturer would list OAL for a non-standard round like that.

Meathead9
05-09-2012, 08:16
I'm building up a new G20SF into a USPSA Limited gun, so I just bought a 10-40 barrel from KKM. I sent in some dummy rounds using Bear Creek 180gr TC's & Zero 180gr JHP's, loaded to 1.180" & 1.200". KKM had to throat it out a little to get the longer loads to fit. Most .40 Glocks have to be loaded around 1.135" OAL for reliable feeding, so I'd guess that's about what the standard KKM is spec'd to. It's more about how long of a round your magazines can reliably feed, since the chamber/barrel can be reamed. The G20 mags can fit rounds well past 1.260" OAL, but the G22/35 mags need to stay around 1.135" OAL, generally speaking.

Long story short, until you get your chamber reamed, I'd stick with the standard loads.

Kegs
05-09-2012, 08:40
I have done this with my .40 barrel. The rounds load very well with the 10mm mag - very reliable. My .40 conversion barrel for my 29 doesn't have the kind of support I need to really make them sing, but I expect it is not a problem to get a .40 s&w zinging at 10mm speeds (and more) if you have a KKM or other barrel with very good case support.

I loaded to 1.160" COAL. I still have 4 relays I haven't fired (because of the lack of support of this barrel - a federal arms barrel) the last relay was 200gr @ >1,000 fps out of a 3.8" barrel...not bad for .40 s&w

Yondering
05-09-2012, 21:42
Another thought about this, is with the G20, there's no need to use .40 loaded long, unless you're looking for more velocity. Standard .40 feeds just fine from 10mm G20 mags.

With those factory loads linked above, if the standard and long loads are both the same velocity, there is no advantage to the long load, and some possible disadvantages.

To be honest, I don't even use a conversion barrel, I just run .40 through my 10mm (Glock only!) when I feel like it. Sometimes they're loaded long, sometimes not. The Glock doesn't have the possible danger of most other 10mm's, of firing when the case is in front of the extractor.

pistolcompetitor
05-10-2012, 06:40
Hey thanks everyone. This was really helpful. I'll pass on the long loads then and buy the standard .40 from this place and a couple of different brands of factory ammo to see what works. GSSF unlimited next but that's a whole other thread...

Shadyscott69
05-10-2012, 18:56
Don't know about that commercial loaded stuff, but when you get to loading your own:

- With the heavier bullet weights, you can load .40 S&W long to 1.260", same as the 10mm, using 10mm load data, for 10mm ballistics. You would do this if you have a lot of .40 S&W brass and want to save the less common 10mm brass. It is safe, when done correctly.

- You need a long throated barrel to do this. I didn't see a OAL listed for the ammo at that link, so who knows if it would fit in an unmodified KKM conversion barrel? You'd think the ammo manufacturer would list OAL for a non-standard round like that.

Nevermind.

WeeWilly
05-11-2012, 18:00
I have a KKM .40S&W conversion barrel for my G20SF. I load .40S&W brass using 10mm loads out to 1.260" with no feed problems using Hornaday HAP 180 and PD 180 FP FMJ's. They all chamber fine. I have not tried loading a bullet like a Hornaday XTP that long (i.e. with a sharp break at the shoulder).

Short story long, if you want to run those long PD loads in your .40S&W KKM barrel, my KKM 40S&W barrel would cycle them, but you might want to buy a box and make sure they cycle in yours before ordering a case.

Meathead9
05-11-2012, 18:53
I have a KKM .40S&W conversion barrel for my G20SF. I load .40S&W brass using 10mm loads out to 1.260" with no feed problems using Hornaday HAP 180 and PD 180 FP FMJ's. They all chamber fine. I have not tried loading a bullet like a Hornaday XTP that long (i.e. with a sharp break at the shoulder).

Short story long, if you want to run those long PD loads in your .40S&W KKM barrel, my KKM 40S&W barrel would cycle them, but you might want to buy a box and make sure they cycle in yours before ordering a case.


Interesting. KKM had to ream my 10-40 barrel to fit my 180gr Zero JHP's & 180gr Bear Creek's @ 1.200". That's pretty crazy you can load out to 1.260" in a barrel chambered in .40S&W, must be the HAP's profile.

WeeWilly
05-11-2012, 20:07
Interesting. KKM had to ream my 10-40 barrel to fit my 180gr Zero JHP's & 180gr Bear Creek's @ 1.200". That's pretty crazy you can load out to 1.260" in a barrel chambered in .40S&W, must be the HAP's profile.

Yes, when I first tested it I was surprised. I guess their tolerances are perhaps not as tight as some might think. I can load 180 HAP's, 180 PD RNFP and even X-treme 180 FP's (which have a really funky wide FP profile), no problems. These are all .400 bullets. As I said, I think maybe XTP or TC's may pose a little more of a challenge. I would be really surprised if I could do the same with any lead.

BTW, was your conversion barrel a drop in affair? Mine took a fair amount of fitting to the slide on my part.

pistolcompetitor
05-12-2012, 03:50
Total drop in for me. Both my Glock and the KKM barrel are pretty new and recent purchases. Test fire date for my 20SF was 4/2012, which is also the month I bought from KKM.

The fit to my slide seems just right-- no sanding or Dremel required. I've only fired 50 rounds of Blazer Brass 180gr but it's been flawless so far.

WeeWilly
05-12-2012, 09:39
Total drop in for me. Both my Glock and the KKM barrel are pretty new and recent purchases. Test fire date for my 20SF was 4/2012, which is also the month I bought from KKM.

The fit to my slide seems just right-- no sanding or Dremel required. I've only fired 50 rounds of Blazer Brass 180gr but it's been flawless so far.

Thanks, maybe I recevied one of their barrels they sell to smith's for custom fitting by mistake. It took an hour of light filing to get it fit properly in the slide. The barrel has worked flawlessly.

Here are some examples loaded with 180gr HAP's to 1.260"

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee169/Bill_Steele/003-2.jpg

VN350X10
05-12-2012, 09:53
Best bet with a .40 KKM barrel in a G20 is to load to the max that will work thru your magazines. Gives best feeding, DON'T exceed a .40 load, we ran a G20 open gun in USPSA for several years, using a KKM barrel, chamber was tight, so it was lapped a bit to open it up & the edges of the chamber were chamfered about .010", but no other changes after proper fitting. It ran as reliable as a stock barrel !
As we only needed a power factor of 165 to make major, we actually shot a very mild .40 load, a 180 going 925mv gave us a PF of 166.5, plenty of cushion to allow for variation in chrono's at different matches.....no 2 chrono's read exactly alike.
(FWIW the FBI load spec is a 180 @ 980)

uncle albert

WeeWilly
05-12-2012, 09:57
... DON'T exceed a .40 load, ...load spec is a 180 @ 980)

uncle albert

Any reason not to load to 10mm specs? I couldn't think how my gun was going to know the difference.

pistolcompetitor
05-12-2012, 11:42
Funny you mention USPSA -- using the G20/KKM setup in limited division major PF is one of the plans. That and reloading. Just don't know when. I feel lucky enough to get some shooting in once a month. So many things to work with, so little time....

Yondering
05-12-2012, 14:15
Any reason not to load to 10mm specs? I couldn't think how my gun was going to know the difference.

No reason not to, as long as the specs include 10mm OAL of 1.250"-ish. The only differences are the small primer, and reduced case neck tension. I haven't found any measurable differences that I can attribute to the primer, but the same loads in 10mm brass, with more neck tension, often produce higher pressure and velocity. (For example, a 180 @ 1250 load with 40 S&W brass, in a stock length barrel, does 1300 in the same barrel with 10mm brass.)

WeeWilly
05-12-2012, 14:31
No reason not to, as long as the specs include 10mm OAL of 1.250"-ish. The only differences are the small primer, and reduced case neck tension. I haven't found any measurable differences that I can attribute to the primer, but the same loads in 10mm brass, with more neck tension, often produce higher pressure and velocity. (For example, a 180 @ 1250 load with 40 S&W brass, in a stock length barrel, does 1300 in the same barrel with 10mm brass.)

Thanks for the tip, I didn't notice the difference in velocity due to the lessened neck tension, but I was not comparing apples to apples load wise. I just shot some 10mm Blue Dot loads using 40S&W brass, SPPM's and the same Hornaday HAP 180's loaded to 1.255" this morning.

My POI was almost exactly 3" low from the exact same loads using 10mm brass. This had me really scratching my head, until I realized my front sight screw had come loose and my TFO front sight was canted up. Of course I didn't have my Glock front sight socket on me so it was a short range trip. I guess I should have used that Blue Loctite afterall. :crying:

Sorry to the OP for the highjack, now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

pistolcompetitor
05-12-2012, 15:35
Not a prob. Learning a lot here!

VN350X10
05-12-2012, 16:58
WeeWilly,
Don't use blue loctite on the front sight......find the GREEN, it's about the same strength, but it's a self-wicking compound, will get under the front sight and act as a grout, giving a much more secure install.And the nice thing is you tighten the sight exactly where you want it & then apply the green. Give it 24 hrs. for a total cure, wipe off any that's outside the joint & you're good to go.
This is what I use on all the installs I've done for sights on cop's guns, well over 175 sets of Mepro's & Trig's, ZERO failure rate.....on cop's guns !
Yeah, it works well.


uncle albert

FWIW, some older .40 brass was crap, had case cracking problems. And using .40 brass in a 10MM chamber leads to fouling, only apparent when you try to chamber 10MM later. Like crudding up a 22LR chamber with .22 shorts.

WeeWilly
05-12-2012, 17:16
WeeWilly,
Don't use blue loctite on the front sight......find the GREEN, it's about the same strength, but it's a self-wicking compound, will get under the front sight and act as a grout, giving a much more secure install.And the nice thing is you tighten the sight exactly where you want it & then apply the green. Give it 24 hrs. for a total cure, wipe off any that's outside the joint & you're good to go.
This is what I use on all the installs I've done for sights on cop's guns, well over 175 sets of Mepro's & Trig's, ZERO failure rate.....on cop's guns !
Yeah, it works well.


uncle albert

FWIW, some older .40 brass was crap, had case cracking problems. And using .40 brass in a 10MM chamber leads to fouling, only apparent when you try to chamber 10MM later. Like crudding up a 22LR chamber with .22 shorts.

Too late, crud, and I have some of that green stuff down there too, makes sense. Thanks for the tip. I just ordered a set of night sights for my G29SF I started the registration process on today, I will give the green a try on that one.

I have a .40 conversion barrel I am loading the "10mm load in 40 cases" for. I don't shoot my .40 loads out of my 10mm chambers as I am too lazy to want to get that fouling out, kinda like why I don't shoot .38spl cases out of my .357's, in all facets of my life these days, laziness prevails.

Jeez, I should be a made man for all my hijacking... :supergrin:

pistolcompetitor
05-12-2012, 18:34
WeeWilly,
Don't use blue loctite on the front sight......find the GREEN, it's about the same strength, but it's a self-wicking compound, will get under the front sight and act as a grout, giving a much more secure install.And the nice thing is you tighten the sight exactly where you want it & then apply the green. Give it 24 hrs. for a total cure, wipe off any that's outside the joint & you're good to go.
This is what I use on all the installs I've done for sights on cop's guns, well over 175 sets of Mepro's & Trig's, ZERO failure rate.....on cop's guns !
Yeah, it works well.


uncle albert

FWIW, some older .40 brass was crap, had case cracking problems. And using .40 brass in a 10MM chamber leads to fouling, only apparent when you try to chamber 10MM later. Like crudding up a 22LR chamber with .22 shorts.

Free form thread!!!

What about the red loctite? Too much for the front sight?

dm1906
05-12-2012, 19:28
Free form thread!!!

What about the red loctite? Too much for the front sight?

Red Loc-Tite is great for high torque, but not so good for vibration and impact. It sets too brittle. I use blue for Glock front sights, and green for metal dovetails. Green doesn't bond to plastic, and can soften/distort some polymers. It would probably be fine for some metal front sights, but may be a problem with a polycarbonate lens or capsule on a plutonium site. Even if you don't get the locker on the lens, the solvent vapor can permanently etch the surface. Mineral/crystal lenses are probably OK.

VN350X10
05-12-2012, 23:10
Since most (all that I know of) Tritium sights are in a glass or quartz crystal capsule to contain the stray radiation, loctite poses no problems.
Red would work, but it'd be nasty when you have to replace the sight (about 10-12 yrs for civillian, 6-8 yrs for L.E.) And I think that almost all tritium sights have a metal body, so no problem there either.