+p+ in 38...yes ... no.... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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piccopower
05-10-2012, 08:10
Do they make it for the 38?
Is it worth it?
Instead of using 357 magnum maybe +p+????
Anyone?

JBnTX
05-10-2012, 08:27
I've never heard of .38 special +P+ ammo.

Personally I'd just get a .357 if I needed that much more power.

Why take the chance of ruining a perfectly good .38 special.

banger
05-10-2012, 08:30
Do they make it for the 38?
Is it worth it?
Instead of using 357 magnum maybe +p+????
Anyone?

Do they make it?

It was the FIRST caliber that was manufactured in +p and +P+.

These loads go back to the late 70's/early 80's period, when the overwhelming majority of law enforcement carried revolvers.

Do a search on "Treasury load".

As to the suitability to your particular needs...That would depend on the revolver you intend to load them into.

meathead19
05-10-2012, 08:49
I have about 25 rds of the Winchester .38 +p+ that was given to me in trade. They're stamped 88 on the bottom, so I'm assuming they're made in 1988.

The gun I rec'd was a 686-3, that I feel should be fine with firing these, just haven't done so yet.

piccopower
05-10-2012, 09:17
Do they make it?

It was the FIRST caliber that was manufactured in +p and +P+.

These loads go back to the late 70's/early 80's period, when the overwhelming majority of law enforcement carried revolvers.

Do a search on "Treasury load".

As to the suitability to your particular needs...That would depend on the revolver you intend to load them into.

It would be 357 revolver.....if they don't then magnum would do.

ronin.45
05-10-2012, 09:29
It would be very dependent on the gun. I'd have no problem shooting them in a magnum gun. I'd be hesitant to put them through a vintage airweight.

fastbolt
05-10-2012, 09:43
A buddy of mine who carried a S&W M60 when he worked with the CHP was required to carry it in his M60 as an off-duty weapon. It was the standard issue CHP ammunition for a while (although different individual field offices sometimes maintained a supply of 125gr .357 Magnum for those officers who could qualify with it).

Yes, you occasionally heard of it accelerating wear & tear on the steel J-frame .38's of that time (late 70's through the 90's). I'd not shoot it in an Airweight, myself. (Not even in one rated for a steady diet of +P loads.)

I once fired hundreds of rounds of it through an early production 640, but it was one of the limited number of them that was actually marked for +P+ loads (on the frame, inside the cylinder window). It had more felt recoil than shooting 158gr +P through my Airweight (642-1), and I used up the +P+ loads in the 640 to help acclimate myself to shooting a lot of +P in my then-new Airweight.

I think I'm down to just a single box of the old 110gr +P+ Winchester Treasury Load (from having access to cases of it some years ago). I'll probably keep it as a souvenir of earlier days.

We have much better performing .38 ammunition nowadays. ;)

countrygun
05-10-2012, 10:09
Do they make it for the 38?
Probably

Is it worth it?
NO

Instead of using 357 magnum maybe +p+????
Why?

Anyone?


If bullet placement is correct,a few fps won't add anything. If the placement isn't correct a few fps won't turn a bad shot into a good one.

piccopower
05-10-2012, 10:46
If bullet placement is correct,a few fps won't add anything. If the placement isn't correct a few fps won't turn a bad shot into a good one.

Just asking because of the difference in power,noise, and kick in a 2inch.

boone10
05-10-2012, 10:55
Modern bullets are designed to expand at lower velocities (i.e. Gold Dot 135 +p) and have a proven record on the streets. The older stuff loaded +p+ are topped off with a "less desirable hollow point" and IMHO are just not worth the possible problems in my particular revolvers. I do, however, have a lever-action Marlin .357 that would eat 'em up for sure.

countrygun
05-10-2012, 11:01
Just asking because of the difference in power,noise, and kick in a 2inch.


Just trying to point out that you quickly reach a point of "diminishing returns" at which the increase in noise and kick increases disproportionately to the increase in useful power. I got my first 2 1/2" .357 in about 1980 and I soon learned that, for me, not matter how hard I trained, my groups were bigger, and my times slower with the .357 ammo. It seemed, again just my opinion, that since I was throwing basically the same bullet (in weight and diameter) slower, bigger groups was not a result I was going to be happy with.

bac1023
05-10-2012, 12:07
I never understood the point of +P+ ammo regardless of the caliber.

If you need more power, step up to another round.

Berto
05-10-2012, 12:10
The +P+ stuff was usually a story of diminishing returns since they didn't yield the performance commensurate with 24K psi pressures.

Fed and Win loaded a 147gr +P+, basically a 9mm jhp bullet in a .38sp case. The Win version chrono'd mid 900fps in a 2" ported snubby (Taurus 85TT), the same in a 3" model 36, 975fps in a 2.5" model 242 L frame snubby and 1050fps in my 4" model 15.
The Fed 147gr +P+ Hydrashok was usually about 50fps slower than the Win version.

Corbon loaded a truly hot +P+ 115gr .38sp, also used a 9mm jhp bullet. This one was said to be about 26K psi, chrono'd 1200fps in J frame snubbies, over 1400fps in a 4" K frame. Fast.

The Treasury Load +P+ 110gr was quoted for having similar numbers as the Corbon, but chrono work I've seen is usually 1100fps in snubbies, 1300 in 4" guns. It worked decent from whats been written of it, but a shallow penetrator usually by FBI standards.

Federal also had a +P+ 125gr jhp LE only, chrono'd 1050-1100fps in snubbies.

With today's powders (like Power Pistol) and better loads like Buffalo Bore, you don't need +P+ anymore to get the same performance, though I still have some of the Win +P+ 147gr laying around somewhere.

hotpig
05-10-2012, 12:40
I sell a lot of the 110gr +P+ ammo. The various +P rounds sell better because more guns can use them and they are not as stout.

257 roberts
05-10-2012, 13:14
we carried Winchester Silver Tips 110gr +P+ in S&W 10 back in the early 80's....it worked!!!

glockdoc21
05-10-2012, 13:25
For me it turned a pistol that was difficult to make hits with (smith 642) into one that was almost impossible to make hits with. YMMV

Berto
05-10-2012, 13:32
For me it turned a pistol that was difficult to make hits with (smith 642) into one that was almost impossible to make hits with. YMMV

It's the Indian.:supergrin:

bac1023
05-10-2012, 13:44
It's the Indian.:supergrin:

:animlol:

CBennett
05-10-2012, 15:28
I've never heard of .38 special +P+ ammo.

Personally I'd just get a .357 if I needed that much more power.

Why take the chance of ruining a perfectly good .38 special.

^ this is my answer heck I dont always use P+ at all I often just have the old FBI load standard pressure(158 grain LSWCHP). Right now im running some 135 grain P+ I think though but no id not use +p+ even if I could.

CBennett
05-10-2012, 15:29
I never understood the point of +P+ ammo regardless of the caliber.

If you need more power, step up to another round.

^ also agree 100% step up to .357 magnum at that point

Merkavaboy
05-10-2012, 16:16
Winchester still makes the 38Spl 110SJHP+P+ and is available in their Law Enforcement Ranger line.

These loads were very erratic in actual performance and the U.S. Border Patrol had replaced this load with the well proven Federal 115JHP+P+ in 9mm when they switched out their revolvers for semi-auto pistols.

barth
05-10-2012, 17:10
Not sure what your shooting out of?

For snubbies I really like the Speer GDHP Short Barrel
rounds. The 135 gr 38 P+ has a great track record on the street.
and Passed the stringent FBI protocol testing.

If you want more power they have a Short Barrel 357 mag too.
It's really loaded light for a 357 Magnum. More like a +P+ 38.

Or just go with a full power GDHP 357 mag?

2" snubbie numbers:
GDHP Short Barrel 38 +P 860 fps
GDHP 357 Short Barrel 990 fps
GDHP 357 mag ~1200 fps

elde
05-10-2012, 17:46
For me it turned a pistol that was difficult to make hits with (smith 642) into one that was almost impossible to make hits with. YMMV

Couldn't have said it better: same gun and same result as glockdoc21!

BFN
05-10-2012, 20:29
The Buffalo Bore 38 sp 158 gr LSWCHP +P is really a ++P+ @ 1000 FPS in a 2" barrel.

I use the Speer 135gr +P for the few times I carry a 38. The BB would be too much recoil for my airweight.

hotpig
05-10-2012, 20:37
People like the Gold Dot 135+P SB ammo. I can not get enough to keep it in stock .

Glock26z
05-11-2012, 12:39
I own Ruger revolvers mostly now and they can take the +P+ ammo without a problem. got rid of all of my Glocks since I am wheelchair bound now.

J_Rico
05-11-2012, 14:40
I own Ruger revolvers mostly now and they can take the +P+ ammo without a problem. got rid of all of my Glocks since I am wheelchair bound now.

First of all, very sorry to hear of your misfortune.

Second, not sure why wheelchair = no glocks. Would you mind explaining?

Wyoming
05-11-2012, 21:21
The +P+ stuff was usually a story of diminishing returns since they didn't yield the performance commensurate with 24K psi pressures.

Fed and Win loaded a 147gr +P+, basically a 9mm jhp bullet in a .38sp case. The Win version chrono'd mid 900fps in a 2" ported snubby (Taurus 85TT), the same in a 3" model 36, 975fps in a 2.5" model 242 L frame snubby and 1050fps in my 4" model 15.
The Fed 147gr +P+ Hydrashok was usually about 50fps slower than the Win version.

Corbon loaded a truly hot +P+ 115gr .38sp, also used a 9mm jhp bullet. This one was said to be about 26K psi, chrono'd 1200fps in J frame snubbies, over 1400fps in a 4" K frame. Fast.

The Treasury Load +P+ 110gr was quoted for having similar numbers as the Corbon, but chrono work I've seen is usually 1100fps in snubbies, 1300 in 4" guns. It worked decent from whats been written of it, but a shallow penetrator usually by FBI standards.

Federal also had a +P+ 125gr jhp LE only, chrono'd 1050-1100fps in snubbies.

With today's powders (like Power Pistol) and better loads like Buffalo Bore, you don't need +P+ anymore to get the same performance, though I still have some of the Win +P+ 147gr laying around somewhere.

:goodpost:

The main reason +P+ 38 loads were LE only was to control the use in strong modern revolvers issued to PDs.

Happypuppy
05-11-2012, 21:28
Just go with the snub nose loads and +P. a lot of people these days are going to small 9mm single stacks but I think the snub nose is the best backup ever. 99% of the disarms they show in the academy don't work with a snub nose. No fear of the gun not cycling if held from the muzzle or against something. Just love them


Sent from my 300 baud modem

Berto
05-12-2012, 14:03
Just go with the snub nose loads and +P. a lot of people these days are going to small 9mm single stacks but I think the snub nose is the best backup ever. 99% of the disarms they show in the academy don't work with a snub nose. No fear of the gun not cycling if held from the muzzle or against something. Just love them


Sent from my 300 baud modem

True, snubbies don't give anyone but the shooter much to hold onto.

SCmasterblaster
05-12-2012, 14:25
I never understood the point of +P+ ammo regardless of the caliber.

If you need more power, step up to another round.

I use +p+ 9x19 cartridges in my CCW G17 because it is the only factory-loaded ammo that can reach the same velocities as my handloads. And I don't carry handloads in my G17 - I hear that that can get one in trouble in some courts. A 115-gr JHP at 1400 FPS is a stopper for sure.