Receiver peep sight on a bull-barreled Mosin [Archive] - Glock Talk

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toshbar
05-10-2012, 15:34
I just got a Mosin receiver mated to the UK-59 machinegun barrel....that was a trip. :wow: It involved my MIG welder welding the barrel in place, grinding it free cause headspace was too tight, and then rewelding the barrel back in place.

Test fired it today with it tied to a tree and everything checks out good. First time I've headspaced anything. :supergrin:


Anyhow....I want to put irons on it and am trying to figure out which williams/lyman receiver mounted peep sight to get and how to mount it so I can still remove the bolt. Do either of the companies make sights that rotate out of the way so the bolt can slide out? I also am wondering what model sight I could use that would fit the contour of the side of the receiver.

countrygun
05-10-2012, 17:47
Mybe something from the old sporting Steyr/Manlicher???

toshbar
05-10-2012, 18:13
Cool, but this one went for $472 on GB.

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/277993000/277993286/pix370778184.jpg


I think i'm going to get the Lyman 57SMET for $70. It has a quick removal of the slide that allows the horizontal part to be removed with a button push. I'm going to have to move the bolt handle to the absolute farthest forward point on the bolt. Either that or turn it down in its current location and make it super thin to slide under the sight.

After I get that mounted, I'll measure height above bore and order the correct Lyman 17a front sight and weld that on. That, or i'll cut a dovetail like it's supposed to go into.

This rifle is going to look like I slapped it togther(which i have), but it's going to be 1 moa if I can get the trigger worked out. I already polished surfaces, but the weight is killing it. maybe lop off a few coils from the striker spring?

m2hmghb
05-10-2012, 19:20
The striker spring has NOTHING to do with the trigger. The spring inside the bolt(the striker spring as you call it) only controls the firing pin strike and the cocking and uncocking of the weapon. The sear spring is what controls the force needed to use the trigger. There are ways to improve it but I'd suggest you just buy an aftermarket trigger if you're not familiar with gunsmithing or the rifle you're working on.

427
05-10-2012, 20:03
Get a Finn reworked trigger. You can usually find them on the Gunboards trader for reasonable prices.

toshbar
05-10-2012, 22:21
The striker spring has NOTHING to do with the trigger. ......
The trigger weight increases after the striker is cocked. This would lead me to believe that the striker spring has something to do with trigger weight. When the bolt is not cocked, trigger weight is reasonable.

I'd love to hear your ideas on reducing the sear spring weight. I have some ideas of my own, one of which is to thin the leaf of the spring to make it less resistant to flexing when the trigger pushes down on it.


The trigger is one of the last things I'm worried about right now. #1 issue is to get sights on this thing.

I'd really like to hear ideas or suggestions on a rear sight setup that gets an adjustable aperture at the rear of the receiver, while still allowing the bolt to be removed from the rifle for cleaning. Relocating the bolt handle and shaving off part of the bolt is not an issue for me. I just need some hardware suggestions that don't break the bank. I have $100 into it so far and would like to keep the whole thing under $250.

Maybe I need to hit a fabrication forum for this kind of stuff.

m2hmghb
05-11-2012, 10:01
I saw a peep sight on a nagant, the guy drilled and tapped the cocking piece and put a silng swivel stud into it and used that as a peep sight. You can thin the width of the spring, or you can bend it but there are some other tricks too. Thinning is a better option then bending, the bending will screw with tolerances and won't be as repeatable. Before you screw with the spring I would suggest you buy at least one spare. Look over how the sear releases the bolt, that might give you a clue on something most people forget to smooth out.

toshbar
05-11-2012, 14:19
I polished all the contact surfaces on the trigger, sear, and bolt where the pieces touch each other. It's plenty smooth now, just really heavy.

I've seen the sling stud into the cocking piece too, and am afraid it won't be nearly precise enough for what I'm trying to do, and only adjust vertically in 2moa increments.

I just ordered a Lyman 90MJT along with the Lyman 640 mounting base. There were two mounting bases available, one was for a 1" receiver and one was for a 15/16" receiver. What is the dimension being measured here. The sight is marketed for .22 rimfire rifles, but I think it will hold up just fine to the mild recoil of 54r coming out of a 12 lb. rifle.

Anyhow, I'll see how to mount up this rear sight and see how it works.

Veedubklown
05-11-2012, 14:31
:needspics:

toshbar
05-11-2012, 14:33
Here's what it looks like so far. 11.3 pounds as it sits. The muzzle is right at 1" in diameter. Very slow rolling recoil. I'd put the impulse at less of that than a normal .223 bolt gun.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4459.jpg

And here's what I had to weld to keep the barrel from rotating. I didn't use loctite because there was some wiggle between the receiver and barrel that I wanted to tighten up. The weld goes all the way around.http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4460.jpg

I'll probably clean up the weld later when I get everything worked out right before I finish the metal.

method
05-11-2012, 14:35
The dimension being measured is the diameter of the receiver, so that the mount matches the curvature. I don't have any experience with Mosins, but looking at pictures, it's going to be tricky mounting a receiver sight. I'd do some more research before ordering anything.

countrygun
05-11-2012, 14:47
Here's what it looks like so far. 11.3 pounds as it sits. The muzzle is right at 1" in diameter. Very slow rolling recoil. I'd put the impulse at less of that than a normal .223 bolt gun.

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4459.jpg

And here's what I had to weld to keep the barrel from rotating. I didn't use loctite because there was some wiggle between the receiver and barrel that I wanted to tighten up. The weld goes all the way around.http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4460.jpg

I'll probably clean up the weld later when I get everything worked out right before I finish the metal.


ahhh......

Uhm.......


..........Nah. nevermind, carry on.

toshbar
05-11-2012, 14:47
The dimension being measured is the diameter of the receiver, so that the mount matches the curvature. I don't have any experience with Mosins, but looking at pictures, it's going to be tricky mounting a receiver sight. I'd do some more research before ordering anything.
I've been researching the hell out of this for the past 3 days. I can't find anywhere that anyone has done anything like this other than the guys who have screwed the sling stud into the cocking piece of the bolt, which isn't what I'm after.

I can send the parts back to optics planet for a full refund/exchange.

toshbar
05-11-2012, 14:50
ahhh......

Uhm.......


..........Nah. nevermind, carry on.
Yes, I know.

The problem was that I screwed the barrel in too tight trying to headspace and crushed the barrel shoulder that provides resistance. When the headspace was correct and the extractor groove cut, the barrel would spin in the receiver, so I had to shore that up.

Funny(not really) part was that I headspaced it too tight the first time, so I had to grind through weld all the way round and back the barrel off about a 10th of a turn, then reweld. major PITA.

countrygun
05-11-2012, 15:07
Yes, I know.

The problem was that I screwed the barrel in too tight trying to headspace and crushed the barrel shoulder that provides resistance. When the headspace was correct and the extractor groove cut, the barrel would spin in the receiver, so I had to shore that up.

Funny(not really) part was that I headspaced it too tight the first time, so I had to grind through weld all the way round and back the barrel off about a 10th of a turn, then reweld. major PITA.


Well.............while I'm here...........I gotta ask a couple of "little, "teensy-weensy" questions.

How, given the situation you outlined, did you ever get the boltface, barrel face, and receiver "trued up"?

Did the welding have any effect on the heat treating on the receiver or barrel?

method
05-11-2012, 15:24
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=43086

3 days? Found this in less than 3 minutes.

toshbar
05-11-2012, 15:26
I put a strip of eletrical tape on the headstamp of an empty case and closed the bolt on that while I welded it It held good force on the whole setup to get everything in line.

I don't think the welding had any effect on the heat treatment. I did small lines, switching sides to avoid it pulling as it cooled. I also waited quite a while between strips of weld. The barrel absorbed a TON of heat, but didn't get too hot to touch. It stayed warm for quite some time though.

Method, that's exactly what I was looking for. Don't know why it didn't turn up in any of my searches. Good to know that it is possible. The sight I bought will move the aperture further rearward than the 57SMET I was going to buy.

m2hmghb
05-11-2012, 15:32
The proper way to do that would have been to rethread the barrel until it hits the shoulder, if it was to long cut or file it until you get it onto the shoulder then take a reamer and ream out the chamber.

You really should have used a set of headspace gauge, the trick you did is fine for checking to see if a rifle is ok, but it is not ok to set a rifle's headspace by. Personally I wouldn't touch that rifle because of the welding, some might call me a wimp but it isn't worth it to me. Did you use any heat absorbing paste?

Veedubklown
05-11-2012, 16:21
Personally I wouldn't touch that rifle because of the welding, some might call me a wimp but it isn't worth it to me. Did you use any heat absorbing paste?

He probably won't shoot it off the shoulder, at first :whistling:

Did I miss the part where you don't want to drill the receiver for a scope? Or why not just weld/bolt a section of rail to the top of the barrel, and put a long eye relief scope on it? I'm a big fan of mosins set up for scout rifles (even though yours weighs as much as a mountain bike :tongueout:) with the scopes out front. Doesn't interfere with operation of the bolt or loading of stripper clips, and no scope bite :steamed: I've been whacked good by a mosin (I know your boat anchor recoils like an AR, but other mosins.)


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4459.jpg


I dig it though, for sure! I'd grap an ATI stock off ebay and hog it out to free-float that massive barrel. That's a bamf rifle.

toshbar
05-11-2012, 16:52
The proper way to do that would have been to rethread the barrel until it hits the shoulder, if it was to long cut or file it until you get it onto the shoulder then take a reamer and ream out the chamber.

You really should have used a set of headspace gauge, the trick you did is fine for checking to see if a rifle is ok, but it is not ok to set a rifle's headspace by. Personally I wouldn't touch that rifle because of the welding, some might call me a wimp but it isn't worth it to me. Did you use any heat absorbing paste?
I understand where you are coming from, but I am confident the thing is headspaced properly. I chambered a shell with the bullet and powder pulled, and kept working the bolt as I rotated the receiver onto the barrel which was clamped in the vice until the bolt would barely not close on the case. I then backed it off just so the bolt would close without extra force and marked the barrel and receiver. I put my empty case with the electrical tape on the headstamp into the chamber. The bolt would not close on this unless I pushed hard enough to crush the tape. I don't know the thickness of the electrical tape I was using, but I'm sure that is within tolerances of a mosin.
He probably won't shoot it off the shoulder, at first :whistling:

Did I miss the part where you don't want to drill the receiver for a scope? Or why not just weld/bolt a section of rail to the top of the barrel, and put a long eye relief scope on it? I'm a big fan of mosins set up for scout rifles (even though yours weighs as much as a mountain bike :tongueout:) with the scopes out front. Doesn't interfere with operation of the bolt or loading of stripper clips, and no scope bite :steamed: I've been whacked good by a mosin (I know your boat anchor recoils like an AR, but other mosins.)



I dig it though, for sure! I'd grap an ATI stock off ebay and hog it out to free-float that massive barrel. That's a bamf rifle.

I sure won't shoulder it first. I've shot 3 rounds with it strapped to a tree trunk, with me on the other side of the tree trunk well shielded. The extractor wasn't working and I had forgotten my cleaning rod back home, so I used some .22 shells to stack in the barrel and push out the case. This got old after 3 shots. I just got finished reworking my exractor, and now it works good. I'll take it out and do 40-50 shots with it strapped to the tree to make sure everything is good.

Yes, it could grenade on the 51st or 1014th shot. I know this, and am aware that this can happen with any rifle.

I thought about slapping a rail on the barrel and doing the scout scope. I also considered the ATI mount that mounts to the receiver and comes with the turned down bolt handle. I just think it'll be that much cooler to have some precision irons and a 30" sight radius. The one I ordered will sit right over the round part of the cocking piece, if not further back when mounted, so I will still be able to drop stripper clips in.

Not real sure what I'm going to do about a stock yet. I may just lay the barrel on a sandbag and go to town.

Veedubklown
05-11-2012, 17:12
I just think it'll be that much cooler to have some precision irons and a 30" sight radius. The one I ordered will sit right over the round part of the cocking piece, if not further back when mounted, so I will still be able to drop stripper clips in.



:dunno: Where?

countrygun
05-11-2012, 17:19
I'm a big fan of mosins set up for scout rifles .



You were saying?

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu208/countrygun/IM002773.jpg

Veedubklown
05-11-2012, 17:38
You were saying?

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu208/countrygun/IM002773.jpg

I was saying I believe you have a fine lookin peice of hardware there. I've always liked the 44's. That looks nice and light, and probably doesnt recoil too badly. Those are a joy to shoot, I would think the heavier gun would recoil less, but is definitely not the case.

countrygun
05-11-2012, 17:44
I was saying I believe you have a fine lookin peice of hardware there. I've always liked the 44's. That looks nice and light, and probably doesnt recoil too badly. Those are a joy to shoot, I would think the heavier gun would recoil less, but is definitely not the case.

:arg:


Actually, due to stock design and the fir my remington 600, .308 is the most confortable "civillian" .308s I own and it's the lightest

toshbar
05-11-2012, 18:04
:dunno: Where?
Should sit right above the round knob you grab to pull back to engage the safety.




YES! The mosin has a safety. :rofl:

Veedubklown
05-11-2012, 19:30
Should sit right above the round knob you grab to pull back to engage the safety.




YES! The mosin has a safety. :rofl:

OHHHH I see what you mean now. I never thought to mount a sight back there. Odd, I can't wait to see it. I see what you mean by the massive sight radius, too. Why not put a tang sight on it, and play quigly down under? :tongueout:

toshbar
05-12-2012, 07:33
Why not put a tang sight on it, and play quigly down under? :tongueout:
Tom Selleck FTW.
The bolt comes back........wayyyy too far for that.

The mosin bolt is actually very non-conducive to having a sight mounted anywhere but in front of the receiver. :faint:

I do really like the butter knife bolt handle in the link Method posted.

Veedubklown
05-12-2012, 17:16
Tom Selleck FTW.
The bolt comes back........wayyyy too far for that.

The mosin bolt is actually very non-conducive to having a sight mounted anywhere but in front of the receiver. :faint:


Pfft. Mount that on the buttpad. Not gonna shoulder fire it anyway :tongueout:

toshbar
05-16-2012, 22:46
Lyman 90MJT is mounted!

The aperture sits as low to the bolt as possible, with about 3/4" of uptravel for range adjustment. It's slightly forward of the cocked bolt right now, but I have multiple holes in the mounting block to move it fore and aft.

Sight radius of 30-31" depending on how close to the muzzle I mount the front.
I need to find out what height my front sight needs to be with the rear sight 1.175" above bore height. I'll ask the optics forum about that.

I cut off the bolt handle and ground that area of the bolt smooth on the bench grinder. While I was tinkering with something else, an idea came to me on what to use for the relocated bolt handle.......




http://www.justtheurbancowgirl.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Davidtool.jpg

:rock:I'll go pick up a 12mm or so from a pawn shop tomorrow.


The question is: which end should I cut off and which end should I use as the 'knob'?:dunno:

toshbar
05-16-2012, 23:24
http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4465.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4466.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4462.jpghttp://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4464.jpg

toshbar
05-17-2012, 18:59
The coolest bolt handle EVER:





http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4469.jpg


http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4467.jpg



$12 and will grab more attention than the welds 4" away. :elephant:

RustyShackelford
05-17-2012, 20:47
By Jove, I think you're on to something....

/was the wrench made in Russia?

toshbar
05-17-2012, 21:50
Taiwan. Lowe's brand Kobalt, guaranteed forever.

toshbar
05-17-2012, 23:38
Just ordered the .404" Lyman 17a

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/817/817066.jpg


And a Marbles .225" dove tail mount that I will epoxy onto the end of the barrel.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/961/961039.jpg


The combination of these will put me right at the same height of my rear sight. The numbers changed since my previous post since I took off the factory bolt handle and lowered that part of the bolt so the rear aperture can sit lower.

RedHaze
05-18-2012, 00:48
Looks like a nifty rifle. Maybe you could smooth out all the ugly weld and duracoat the whole shebang some rediculous bright neon color... Make it really stand out.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

arclight610
05-18-2012, 08:22
Your rifle looks like something out of the Fallout universe

http://images.wikia.com/fallout/images/d/d8/HuntingRifleFO3.png

toshbar
05-18-2012, 19:43
Looks like a nifty rifle. Maybe you could smooth out all the ugly weld and duracoat the whole shebang some rediculous bright neon color... Make it really stand out.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
Or leave the ugly weld and put some of this over the whole thing:
http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/7978/797878_300.jpg


:rofl:

RustyShackelford
05-18-2012, 20:04
was the wrench made in Russia?

Taiwan. Lowe's brand Kobalt, guaranteed forever.

Well, now you've gone and ruined it. :rofl:

Or leave the ugly weld and put some of this over the whole thing:
http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/7978/797878_300.jpg


:rofl:

:animlol:

toshbar
05-18-2012, 21:42
Maybe I'll just prime it with that awful red rust looking primer. "patina in a can".

Veedubklown
05-20-2012, 20:04
And a Marbles .225" dove tail mount that I will epoxy onto the end of the barrel.

Silver-solder, IMO. You lost me at the ratchet wrench. Is the wrench useful for something on the gun? I'd cut it off and shape a butter-knife style handle for it.

m2hmghb
05-20-2012, 21:39
Silver-solder, IMO. You lost me at the ratchet wrench. Is the wrench useful for something on the gun? I'd cut it off and shape a butter-knife style handle for it.

He used it for the bolt handle. Do you see the hex end in the photo?

toshbar
05-20-2012, 21:46
Silver-solder, IMO. You lost me at the ratchet wrench. Is the wrench useful for something on the gun? I'd cut it off and shape a butter-knife style handle for it.
I have JB weld on hand, no silver solder.

Wrench adds character and has no useful value as of present.

toshbar
05-22-2012, 15:37
Front sight arrived. Will be gluing it on tonight. Hopefully I can get it on straight and level .

Veedubklown
05-23-2012, 00:38
Front sight arrived. Will be gluing it on tonight. Hopefully I can get it on straight and level .

Adjust your rear peep to centered as much as possible, then set it up in a rifle rest, with a laser bore-sight. Adjust your sight to that, and stab it on. You should at least hit paper with it, then you'll have all adjustments left in the peep. That's what I'd do, anyway.

toshbar
05-23-2012, 11:11
Adjust your rear peep to centered as much as possible, then set it up in a rifle rest, with a laser bore-sight. Adjust your sight to that, and stab it on. You should at least hit paper with it, then you'll have all adjustments left in the peep. That's what I'd do, anyway.
I actually put it on this morning. Got invited to a Kip Moore concert at the last minute last night.......:cowboy:


Anyway, I did just about what you explained except didn't use the laser. I put the rifle in a vice and aimed it at a knot on a tree so I could see the knot down the bore, centered the aperture over the bore(which isn't mechanical center on the sight), and then placed the sight where it was in line with the knot on the tree when looking through the aperture. I circled the sight ramp with a sharpie so I could put it right back. I then roughed up the barrel and underside of the sight ramp with a rasp and put some JB weld in between. It's drying now. I have about 15 MOA adj. to the right, and probably 25 MOA to the left with the aperture, and if things get really bad, I can drift the sight in the dovetail of the sight ramp.
I'll get some pictures up in a little bit.

Veedubklown
05-23-2012, 13:10
Why do I hear banjos? :tongueout:

Hope it works out, seems sound enough. Not like bore sighting is new science, being able to actually see from the bolt face down the muzzle makes things immensely easier.

toshbar
05-23-2012, 16:32
Success! Another $100 Mosin with $200 sights on it! Or is that success? :faint::supergrin:


Photos of it thus far:

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4525.jpg

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4526.jpg

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx51/toshbar/CIMG4531.jpg

Now I need to figure something out for a stock......

toshbar
05-27-2012, 16:06
Took it to the rage today. 14" group at 500 yards, so a hair under 3MOA.


Not bad for iron sights and surplus steel case ammo.

for my initial zero after sights were installed, I only had to adjust 6MOA up and 2MOA left. I'd say my technique to get the front sight location was dang accurate.

Here's a pic to remind everyone of what tomorrow honors:


http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/579718_476759662339430_100000162027276_2076957_697850505_n.jpg

Background is the RWVA Appleseed range in Ramseur, NC.

toshbar
05-28-2012, 21:33
I got all my come-ups out to 500 yards figured out today.

I think i'm going to take my soldering iron and burn them into the stock, just to reinforce the ugliest rifle I'll own.


Here she is in action.

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/303311_477714068910656_1593050610_n.jpg

Veedubklown
05-28-2012, 22:17
Took it to the rage today. 14" group at 500 yards, so a hair under 3MOA.


Not bad for iron sights and surplus steel case ammo.


Not tryin to be a jerk, but can't a regular mosin already do this with a similar sight arrangement?

toshbar
05-28-2012, 22:30
Not tryin to be a jerk, but can't a regular mosin already do this with a similar sight arrangement?
No idea. Doubtful that a 91/30 could. I'd expect the Finn M91 could.

I suspect when I reduce trigger pull, add overtravel stop, and get the barrel broken in, group size will come down some.


I also have bad days shooting. :embarassed:

I'll take my hungarian M44 out next time and see what it does on paper.


Excellent news:
When I remove the rear sight to remove the bolt to hose the barrel out, it goes exactly back to zero when reinstalled.

RedHaze
05-28-2012, 22:34
Or see what it does with something other than old mil-surp ammo...

toshbar
05-29-2012, 06:12
Or see what it does with something other than old mil-surp ammo...
I have some Georgia Arms 'Precision Plus' 180gr. that I'll try out next time I get to the range.