Dinosaurs, Humans, and the Fossil Record [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 09:18
Extraordinary Evidence that Dinosaurs Lived with Man - Dr. Don Patton (The Record of the Rocks) - YouTube

steveksux
05-12-2012, 11:34
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

steveksux
05-12-2012, 11:44
If only those accursed scientists, most of whom are Christians, weren't engaged in a conspiracy to undermine Christianity by misrepresenting science to hide the evidence for biblical creation/flood/cataclysmic theories... this guy would be regarded as the Einstein of our time :rofl:

Randy

Paul7
05-12-2012, 11:48
You don't expect evidence to overrule their naturalistic evolutionary religion, do you?

steveksux
05-12-2012, 11:57
You don't expect evidence to overrule their naturalistic evolutionary religion, do you?Of course I do. That's what science does. Happened many times before, and will continue to happen as new evidence emerges. History repeats itself. Evidence has uprooted strongly held beliefs many times since people started looking at evidence and using science.

From Round Earth, to Copernicus, to Galileo, to Newton, to Einstein, to Quantum Physics, to Evolution and the BIg Bang.

All were grounbreaking theories, totally counterintuitive, directly contradicting the previously widely held beliefs. All were accepted regardless of how strange they seemed at the time, because of the weight of evidence that supported them.

You are obviously projecting. It's those of your mindset that cannot change and adapt to new evidence. It's those still believing everything in ancient texts from bronze age writers that can't accept that they weren't attempting to write science textbooks back then.

Science has no trouble adapting to new discoveries. Religions are the ones stuck in place, unable to assimilate new evidence. You are the guys sticking with stone age theories of how things work and ignoring evidence that doesn't fit the Bible, not scientists.

Do you believe in germs? There's nothing in the Bible about germs. Germ theory must be another conspiracy to undermine Christianity, eh? :rofl:

Put into terms you would understand:

If Odin appears and proves he is Lord of the Universe, and created the universe and man, it will be the scientists that admit they were wrong, that there was a supreme being driving the creation process.

Christians will still be denying Odin exists.
Randy

steveksux
05-12-2012, 12:20
You don't expect evidence to overrule their naturalistic evolutionary religion, do you?In a nutshell, that's absolutely nuts.

Its clearly false, and should be patently obvious to anyone.

What do ALL the most famous scientists of all time have in common?

Their discoveries turned conventional wisdom on its head and showed the widely accepted "facts" of the time were in fact incorrect.

Science CELEBRATES the people that prove the conventional wisdom wrong.

People are actively searching for anything that would prove Evolution wrong, along with any other scientific theory out there. The people that debunk theories make quantum leaps in our understanding of the universe and become icons of science.

The people that fill in the blanks of existing theories toil in obscurity, though that is important work as well.

Randy

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 12:25
If only those accursed scientists, most of whom are Christians, weren't engaged in a conspiracy to undermine Christianity by misrepresenting science to hide the evidence for biblical creation/flood/cataclysmic theories... this guy would be regarded as the Einstein of our time :rofl:

Randy

So, before you began your tyrade of mocking, did you actually view the presented material? I suspect not. Also, the material is presented by a Phd in the field. Your credentials would be....?

Alizard
05-12-2012, 13:57
Don't you know that those tracks are fake? Bigfoot planted them there to trick us.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 14:30
So, before you began your tyrade of mocking, did you actually view the presented material? I suspect not. Actually I did, its pretty funny stuff. Got anything about the Earth being flat?Also, the material is presented by a Phd in the field. Your credentials would be....?Common sense. Stuff that happened hundreds of millions of years ago were not concurrent with stuff that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago.

But good point. Lets look at his Phd: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
Patton has claimed Ph.D. candidacy in geology from Queensland Christian University in Australia. According to Glen Kuban:

When I asked Patton for clarification on this during the [1989 Bible-Science] conference, he stated that he had no degrees, but was about to receive a Ph.D. degree in geology, pending accreditation of QCU, which he assured me was "three days away." Many days have since passed, and Patton still has no valid degree in geology. Nor is the accreditation of QCU imminent. [4]So except for NOT having a Phd in geologhy, from an institution that is NOT even accredited no less... But he does have a Phd, in EDUCATION... :rofl: How else could he end up believing the 19th century version of geologic history.

Education:
1. Florida College, Temple Terrace, FL (Bible) 1959-1963
2. Austin Peay State University, Clarksville, TN (Geology) 1973-1974
3. Indiana Univ./Purdue Univ., Indianapolis, IN (Geology) 1974-1976
4. Pacific School of Graduate Studies, Melbourne, Australia (Geology) 1989-1991
5. Pacific School of Graduate Studies, Melbourne, Australia (Education) 1992-1993
6. Ph.D. in Education granted 12/10/1993 (Pacific School of Graduate Studies)
(A brief history of the Pacific School of Graduate Studies in Melbourne, Australia, click here.)http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ask-creationist.htm

You pick one Phd from a non-technical unrelated field that makes claims disproved by thousands of Phd's in dozens of related fields and question how I got to the conclusion that this guy is wrong... :rofl::rofl: Not to mention I don't really need to check the credentials of someone claiming the Earth is flat before commencing the mockery either. But thanks for giving me the nudge to actually go and check his credentials...

So much more mockery is possible as a result!! Anything worth mocking is worth mocking well.


Randy

eracer
05-12-2012, 14:34
Do you believe in germs? There's nothing in the Bible about germs. God bless you.

(i.e. BE GONE, YE DEMONS EXPELLED!! )

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 14:37
Common sense. Stuff that happened hundreds of millions of years ago were not concurrent with stuff that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago.

You pick one Phd in the field that makes claims disproved by thousands of Phd's in dozens of fields and question how I got to the conclusion that this guy is wrong... :rofl::rofl: I don't need to check the credentials of someone claiming the Earth is flat before commencing the mockery either.

Randy

In other words, you didn't. So, your contribution to this discussion is nothing. Try looking at the evidence and then come back when you have something to add to the discussion that is actually releveant to the material.

Gunhaver
05-12-2012, 15:26
In other words, you didn't. So, your contribution to this discussion is nothing. Try looking at the evidence and then come back when you have something to add to the discussion that is actually releveant to the material.

Try looking at the evidence? Are you kidding? How much evidence have you dismissed, or more likely never seriously considered, that humans and dinos were many millions of years apart? You blow it all off as conspiracy or the work of the devil or whatever insane rationalization you want to put on it and then fault us for not considering your footprint video?

Ask us to start listing the evidence of 65 million years of separation between dinos and humans, I dare you. And then the video posts and article links will start rolling in and you will be expected to watch and read every single one or be told to " Try looking at the evidence and then come back when you have something to add to the discussion that is actually releveant to the material".

Let me start you off with this, http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm and add that google is a wonderful thing for those that want actual truth instead of just their truth.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 15:36
In other words, you didn't. So, your contribution to this discussion is nothing. Try looking at the evidence and then come back when you have something to add to the discussion that is actually releveant to the material.Actually I did, its pretty funny stuff. Got anything about the Earth being flat?Also, the material is presented by a Phd in the field. Your credentials would be....?Common sense. Stuff that happened hundreds of millions of years ago were not concurrent with stuff that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago.

But good point. Lets look at his Phd: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
Patton has claimed Ph.D. candidacy in geology from Queensland Christian University in Australia. According to Glen Kuban:

When I asked Patton for clarification on this during the [1989 Bible-Science] conference, he stated that he had no degrees, but was about to receive a Ph.D. degree in geology, pending accreditation of QCU, which he assured me was "three days away." Many days have since passed, and Patton still has no valid degree in geology. Nor is the accreditation of QCU imminent. [4]So except for NOT having a Phd in geologhy, from an institution that is NOT even accredited no less... But he does have a Phd, in EDUCATION... :rofl: How else could he end up believing the 19th century version of geologic history.

Education:
1. Florida College, Temple Terrace, FL (Bible) 1959-1963
2. Austin Peay State University, Clarksville, TN (Geology) 1973-1974
3. Indiana Univ./Purdue Univ., Indianapolis, IN (Geology) 1974-1976
4. Pacific School of Graduate Studies, Melbourne, Australia (Geology) 1989-1991
5. Pacific School of Graduate Studies, Melbourne, Australia (Education) 1992-1993
6. Ph.D. in Education granted 12/10/1993 (Pacific School of Graduate Studies)
(A brief history of the Pacific School of Graduate Studies in Melbourne, Australia, click here.)http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ask-creationist.htm

You pick one Phd from a non-technical unrelated field that makes claims disproved by thousands of Phd's in dozens of related fields and question how I got to the conclusion that this guy is wrong... :rofl::rofl: Not to mention I don't really need to check the credentials of someone claiming the Earth is flat before commencing the mockery either. But thanks for giving me the nudge to actually go and check his credentials...

So much more mockery is possible as a result!! Anything worth mocking is worth mocking well.


Randy

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 16:13
Actually I did, its pretty funny stuff. Got anything about the Earth being flat?Common sense. Stuff that happened hundreds of millions of years ago were not concurrent with stuff that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago.

But good point. Lets look at his Phd: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/credentials.html
So except for NOT having a Phd in geologhy, from an institution that is NOT even accredited no less... But he does have a Phd, in EDUCATION... :rofl: How else could he end up believing the 19th century version of geologic history.

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ask-creationist.htm

You pick one Phd from a non-technical unrelated field that makes claims disproved by thousands of Phd's in dozens of related fields and question how I got to the conclusion that this guy is wrong... :rofl::rofl: Not to mention I don't really need to check the credentials of someone claiming the Earth is flat before commencing the mockery either. But thanks for giving me the nudge to actually go and check his credentials...

So much more mockery is possible as a result!! Anything worth mocking is worth mocking well.


Randy

There is no mention of the earth being flat. Sorry, but the physical evidence does not support your claim, even though you desperately want it to. Evidence is evidence, and you have yet to address it. I would say you are intellectually challenged and threatened by the substance of the material presented.

So far what this gentlemen has presented is far superior to anything you have put foward in this thread.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 16:16
Try looking at the evidence? Are you kidding? How much evidence have you dismissed, or more likely never seriously considered, that humans and dinos were many millions of years apart? You blow it all off as conspiracy or the work of the devil or whatever insane rationalization you want to put on it and then fault us for not considering your footprint video?

Ask us to start listing the evidence of 65 million years of separation between dinos and humans, I dare you. And then the video posts and article links will start rolling in and you will be expected to watch and read every single one or be told to " Try looking at the evidence and then come back when you have something to add to the discussion that is actually releveant to the material".

Let me start you off with this, http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm and add that google is a wonderful thing for those that want actual truth instead of just their truth.

He we have phsyical evidence that refutes that conclusively. I keep hearing the cry for proof until it is presented, and then comes angery and mockery. I refer back to the concept that Atheism is a religion, as its adherants become very defensive when evidence is put foward that challenges those beliefs.

The physical evidence is here, is it is documented, now the question is how do you either dismiss it, or like a true scientist accept the new evidence and go foward.

Paul7
05-12-2012, 16:20
In a nutshell, that's absolutely nuts.

Its clearly false, and should be patently obvious to anyone.

What do ALL the most famous scientists of all time have in common?

Their discoveries turned conventional wisdom on its head and showed the widely accepted "facts" of the time were in fact incorrect.

Science CELEBRATES the people that prove the conventional wisdom wrong.

People are actively searching for anything that would prove Evolution wrong, along with any other scientific theory out there. The people that debunk theories make quantum leaps in our understanding of the universe and become icons of science.

The people that fill in the blanks of existing theories toil in obscurity, though that is important work as well.

Randy

So what's your explanation for the co-mingled human and dinosaur footprints?

Animal Mother
05-12-2012, 17:29
He we have phsyical evidence that refutes that conclusively. No, we don't, as the link provided makes clear. Not even other creationists accept this "evidence".
The physical evidence is here, is it is documented, now the question is how do you either dismiss it, or like a true scientist accept the new evidence and go foward. Your standard for evidence appears to be not whether or not it is true but whether or not it agrees with what you believe.

Animal Mother
05-12-2012, 17:31
So what's your explanation for the co-mingled human and dinosaur footprints?However, the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and in recent years have been abandoned even by most creationists. The supposed human tracks have involved a variety of phenomena, including metatarsal dinosaur tracks, erosional features, and carvings. The largest number of "man tracks" are forms of elongate, metatarsal dinosaur tracks, made by bipedal dinosaurs that sometimes impressed their metatarsi (heels and soles) as they walked. When the digit impressions of such tracks are subdued by mud-backflow or secondary infilling, a somewhat human shape often results. Other alleged "man tracks" including purely erosional features (often selectively highlighted to encourage human shapes), indistinct marks of undertain origin, and a smaller number of doctored and carved tracks (most of the latter occurring on loose blocks of rock).
(http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm)

Imagine how much faster these discussions would go if you read the contrary evidence.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 17:35
There is no mention of the earth being flat. Sorry, but the physical evidence does not support your claim, even though you desperately want it to. Evidence is evidence, and you have yet to address it. I would say you are intellectually challenged and threatened by the substance of the material presented.

So far what this gentlemen has presented is far superior to anything you have put foward in this thread.You're getting closer to the truth, at least you didn't refer to him Dr. gentleman... :rofl: that's progress.

Randy

RedNine
05-12-2012, 17:36
I wonder if dinosaur meat tasted good. I bet it did. I bet it tasted real good.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 17:39
So what's your explanation for the co-mingled human and dinosaur footprints?:rofl::rofl::rofl:
You believe that???
Same as the explanation for the human face on Mars. You believe people lived on Mars and left statues there too? People desperately want to believe nonsense as long as it lines up with their preconceived notions.

http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2001/08/28/ast24may_1_resources/pio_med.gif

Randy

steveksux
05-12-2012, 17:40
I wonder if dinosaur meat tasted good. I bet it did. I bet it tasted real good.I bet it tasted like chicken... They think birds evolved from dinosaurs...

Besides, everything tastes like chicken. Its a glitch in the Matrix. :rofl:

Randy

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 17:42
However, the "man track" claims have not stood up to close scientific scrutiny, and in recent years have been abandoned even by most creationists. The supposed human tracks have involved a variety of phenomena, including metatarsal dinosaur tracks, erosional features, and carvings. The largest number of "man tracks" are forms of elongate, metatarsal dinosaur tracks, made by bipedal dinosaurs that sometimes impressed their metatarsi (heels and soles) as they walked. When the digit impressions of such tracks are subdued by mud-backflow or secondary infilling, a somewhat human shape often results. Other alleged "man tracks" including purely erosional features (often selectively highlighted to encourage human shapes), indistinct marks of undertain origin, and a smaller number of doctored and carved tracks (most of the latter occurring on loose blocks of rock). (http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm)

(http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm)

Imagine how much faster these discussions would go if you read the contrary evidence.

Nice try. But, imagine if you actually looked at the evidence itself. That is why I presented it. Are you afraid to look? Are you afraid it might just challenge your deeply held beliefs? The human foot prints are inmistakable, also, they are part of the sedimentary level under a current river, and many of which are found in the middle of a dinosaur track.

Try again.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 17:43
You're getting closer to the truth, at least you didn't refer to him Dr. gentleman... :rofl: that's progress.

Randy

Again, you have absolutely no intellectual addition to this thread.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 17:47
There is no mention of the earth being flat. Sorry, but the physical evidence does not support your claim, even though you desperately want it to. Evidence is evidence, and you have yet to address it. I would say you are intellectually challenged and threatened by the substance of the material presented.

So far what this gentlemen has presented is far superior to anything you have put foward in this thread.

Obviously you'd think that since you're only interested in affirmation, rather than information. :rofl:

All the thousands of scientists that have proven evolution, the old earth, dinosaurs millions of years ago vs humans existing for only a few million years? ignored by you. its all a conspiracy by scientists (mostly Christians to boot) to discredit Christianity...

One crackpot pretending to have a relevant Phd, with a discredited theory not even believed by other creationists anymore, and you think you've hit the jackpot..

Note: Jackpot and crackpot are not synonyms.

Randy

RedNine
05-12-2012, 17:48
I bet it tasted like chicken... They think birds evolved from dinosaurs...

Besides, everything tastes like chicken. Its a glitch in the Matrix. :rofl:

Randy

Mmmmm. I'd like a pterodactyl buffalo wing.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 17:50
Nice try. But, imagine if you actually looked at the evidence itself. That is why I presented it. Are you afraid to look? Are you afraid it might just challenge your deeply held beliefs? The human foot prints are inmistakable, also, they are part of the sedimentary level under a current river, and many of which are found in the middle of a dinosaur track.

Try again.

I think you meant "the human tracks are unmistakable to those who mistake them for human tracks"

Spelling and factual errors. That's an intellectual contribution!

Randy

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 18:02
I think you meant "the human tracks are unmistakable to those who mistake them for human tracks"

Spelling and factual errors. That's an intellectual contribution!

Randy

By your argument all the dinosaur track and fossils and are manufactured as well. Once, again, you have nothing regarding the actual material to contribute.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 18:19
By your argument all the dinosaur track and fossils and are manufactured as well. Once, again, you have nothing regarding the actual material to contribute.No fair bearing false witness.... Dinosaur tracks and fossils have been corroborated by evidence and often multiple lines of evidence from different areas of science.

In this particular case, the "human" footprints have been debunked by lots of evidence, so convincingly that even many young earth creationists no longer believe the paluxy tracks are humans anymore.

Didn't you check Animal Mothers' link? I thought you were interested in information?

Or is it only information that agrees with your preconcieved notions?

Randy

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 18:24
No fair bearing false witness.... Dinosaur tracks and fossils have been corroborated by evidence and often multiple lines of evidence from different areas of science.

In this particular case, the "human" footprints have been debunked by lots of evidence, so convincingly that even many young earth creationists no longer believe the paluxy tracks are humans anymore.

Didn't you check Animal Mothers' link? I thought you were interested in information?

Or is it only information that agrees with your preconcieved notions?

Randy

Why? Neither of you have reviewed the evidence. Neither of you have been, like the presenter on a dig site, or handled the actual evidence. All I get from you is scoffing.

So, until you review the evidence presented, we have nothing to talk about other than your jestering.

Gunhaver
05-12-2012, 18:24
By your argument all the dinosaur track and fossils and are manufactured as well. Once, again, you have nothing regarding the actual material to contribute.

I have personally dug up many of them and I can assure you that they are not manufactured. I know of no artist that can carve the inside of a skull from stone or carve bones that can be broken open to reveal the spongy hollows. But a footprint? That's easy to fake.

It's not my job but it's a very obsessive hobby of mine and I volunteer for the tedious work of searching for fossils, digging them out and cleaning them off. I can promise you that you have no idea what the process involves and what the people that do this for a living can find out just from a cup of dirt that I spent hours scraping and brushing away from fossils. It goes so much further than, "Well, that looks like a human footprint. Must be a human footprint!"

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 18:26
I have personally dug up many of them and I can assure you that they are not manufactured. I know of no artist that can carve the inside of a skull from stone or carve bones that can be broken open to reveal the spongy hollows. But a footprint? That's easy to fake.

It's not my job but it's a very obsessive hobby of mine and I volunteer for the tedious work of searching for fossils, digging them out and cleaning them off. I can promise you that you have no idea what the process involves and what the people that do this for a living can find out just from a cup of dirt that I spent hours scraping and brushing away from fossils. It goes so much further than, "Well, that looks like a human footprint. Must be a human footprint!"

These are confirmed human prints. But, you would know that if you had reviewed the OP material.

juggy4711
05-12-2012, 18:38
Reading this thread is almost as entertaining as listening to Coast to Coast AM.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 18:44
Reading this thread is almost as entertaining as listening to Coast to Coast AM.

Art Bell has been retired for years, however. Anywho, back to the OP presentation. Anyone on this thread, besides me view it yet?

Gunhaver
05-12-2012, 19:20
Art Bell has been retired for years, however. Anywho, back to the OP presentation. Anyone on this thread, besides me view it yet?

Is that your only issue that nobody watched it? Because I love **** like this and I watched the whole thing the first time I saw it. I still say it's BS. What points did he make specifically that you think are rock solid? I'd be happy to give my amateur opinion.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 19:53
Is that your only issue that nobody watched it? Because I love **** like this and I watched the whole thing the first time I saw it. I still say it's BS. What points did he make specifically that you think are rock solid? I'd be happy to give my amateur opinion.

Given the fact that human remains were found at the same level as the dinosaur remains, and were also fossilized, the fact that human fossilized prints and dinosaur prints existed in conjunction and even on top of each other, and the fact that there is no text book example of various layers of evolution of creatures by layers, and fossilized remains of previously though extinct species have been found to exist even today (such as 600 colecanth), and Richard Dawkins own admission-it would demonstrate that dinosaurs and humans coexisted.

But, had you reviewed the material, you would already know all of this.

steveksux
05-12-2012, 20:30
These are confirmed human prints. But, you would know that if you had reviewed the OP material.Confirmed to be non-human footprints by everyone ELSE that studied them, such as people who have ACTUAL Phd's in geology and archaeologists who get peer reviewed to uncover any mistakes they made.

But you choose to believe the guy pretending to have a Phd in geology promoting a theory that's been debunked for years now, to the point that even CREATIONISTS abandoned it, because he has a video on youtube... :rofl:

I would think at this point jestering would be considered a mandatory response. :dunno:

So are you admitting the earth is > 10000 years old because of geology? Speaking of looking at evidence.. Or is geology only applicable when you can find a "geologist" (actually a fake geologist in this case) that supports your views?

Randy

Gunhaver
05-12-2012, 20:36
Given the fact that human remains were found at the same level as the dinosaur remains, and were also fossilized, the fact that human fossilized prints and dinosaur prints existed in conjunction and even on top of each other, and the fact that there is no text book example of various layers of evolution of creatures by layers, and fossilized remains of previously though extinct species have been found to exist even today (such as 600 colecanth), and Richard Dawkins own admission-it would demonstrate that dinosaurs and humans coexisted.

But, had you reviewed the material, you would already know all of this.

This guy is flat out lying about paleontology and geology and that's kind of my thing so it tends to get under my skin. His video is so full of BS misinformation that I'm going to watch the whole thing again and re-link it here with a reply tab open so I can come back and provide explanations and links to refute every strawman argument and flat out falsehood he makes. It's going to take a while and it's going to be long but bear with me...

GreenDrake
05-12-2012, 20:39
kool aid is delicious. man, the creationists sure are thirsty.

Animal Mother
05-12-2012, 21:10
Nice try. But, imagine if you actually looked at the evidence itself. If you mean evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, I've seen the Flintstones.
That is why I presented it. Are you afraid to look? To look at what?
Are you afraid it might just challenge your deeply held beliefs? The human foot prints are inmistakable, also, they are part of the sedimentary level under a current river, and many of which are found in the middle of a dinosaur track. They aren't human footprints. Something that even the more honest among the creationists (talk about oxymorons) admit.

Try again.[/QUOTE]

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 21:16
This guy is flat out lying about paleontology and geology and that's kind of my thing so it tends to get under my skin. His video is so full of BS misinformation that I'm going to watch the whole thing again and re-link it here with a reply tab open so I can come back and provide explanations and links to refute every strawman argument and flat out falsehood he makes. It's going to take a while and it's going to be long but bear with me...

Well, at least you are dedicated to your beliefs enough to have preconceived decisions that you intend to prove.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 21:17
If you mean evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time, I've seen the Flintstones.
To look at what?
They aren't human footprints. Something that even the more honest among the creationists (talk about oxymorons) admit.

Try again.[/QUOTE]

In other words you haven't viewed the material. I think it is rather compelling.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 21:18
kool aid is delicious. man, the creationists sure are thirsty.

And another nonviewer with a preconceived decision?

Animal Mother
05-12-2012, 21:21
Why? Neither of you have reviewed the evidence. Neither of you have been, like the presenter on a dig site, or handled the actual evidence. All I get from you is scoffing.

So, until you review the evidence presented, we have nothing to talk about other than your jestering. Present the evidence. The speaker in the video claims the Dallas Crime Lab verified the tracks were human footprints. Where is that report?

How do you answer the admission, by the original discoverer's family, that the tracks had been faked?

Animal Mother
05-12-2012, 21:22
In other words you haven't viewed the material. Yes, I have. Can you say the same about the evidence to the contrary?
I think it is rather compelling.No, it isn't. Unless you mean compelling proof of the innate dishonesty of creationsts.

Kingarthurhk
05-12-2012, 21:45
Yes, I have. Can you say the same about the evidence to the contrary?
No, it isn't. Unless you mean compelling proof of the innate dishonesty of creationsts.

So, multiple people went all around the world faking dinosaur tracks?

G23Gen4TX
05-12-2012, 21:59
If you somehow believe man and dinosaur walked on earth at the same time within the last 6000 years then you deserve religion.

Animal Mother
05-12-2012, 22:07
So, multiple people went all around the world faking dinosaur tracks? No, dinosaurs lived all over the world. If you're talking about the claims of other mixed tracks in other areas, you'll note that none of them are actually documented. The supposed tracks in Turkmenistan are addressed on this page (http://paleo.cc/paluxy/russ.htm).

Now then, about that Dallas crime lab report. Where can it be found?

Gunhaver
05-12-2012, 23:08
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dWe3cteDuBc#!

At 5:00 he starts to make the claim that geologists only date rocks by the fossils they contain and fossils by the rocks they're in. This is total BS. There are a number of dating methods that work with many rocks, not just those containing fossils.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating
And that's just the beginning. You wouldn't believe what they can do with gas mass spectography and other chemical analysis equipment. It's a far cry from just saying, "Old fossil, old rock. Old rock old fossil." Why is he acting like geologists are such retards? Because he needs to discredit them. Here's something to ask yourself. When somebody has a lot of money riding on geological matters like people who decide where to drill for oil, where to buy mineral rights or if a piece of ground will support a particular structure who do they hire to find out what they need to know? Not 'Dr.' Don Patton the god geologist. They go for the guys that will disagree with everything he has said.

6:40 He starts in about how there are a huge number of marine fossils all over the world compared to the number of terrestrial vertebrate fossils found. Duh. Marine fossils are predominately hard shelled animals that reproduce quickly, live in an environment that practically guarantees fossilization and they've been going at it for much longer than land animals. That's to be expected. By comparison terrestrial animals lay around for a while after they die and get picked apart by scavengers usually having their bones chewed apart to get to the marrow inside so they have to die under very specific rare conditions to be fossilized. The intent of those charts is to show the evolutionary lineage, not to represent the commonality of each animal in the fossil record.

At 7:55 he claims the reason for this is to hide the fact that marine fossils are so numerous in the fossil record because of the great flood. He neglects that there are plenty of fossil beds with no marine fossils whatsoever.

Around 12:30 he tries to make the case that animals are separated in the fossil record not because they died at different times but because they lived in different places and as the water rose to higher elevations it drowned and buried different habitats. This completely ignores the fact that animals that lived in different locations around the globe are found at the same layer in those places and there are plenty of places, like the Burgess shale, where no animals found alive today are found. Where are all the horse, deer, bear and wolf fossils if all of those animals were around when the dinosaurs were being drowned and fossilized? Why, when you do find them, will they never be nearly as fossilized as dinosaur fossils and why are the dinosaurs never as fossilized as Cambrian fossils? I've seen this with my own eyes. I'm not just taking some conspiratorial paleontologist's word for it.

13:40 :rofl: Yes, that's exactly what you do and that is circular logic.

15:50 The Coelacanth? Really? Where does evolutionary theory set an expiration date for any given species and say it can't exist anymore past a given point? That fish along with sharks, crocodilians and many other forms are simply forms that work so well in a given environment that they haven't changed much because the environment hasn't changed. Finding any primitive creature alive today in an unexplored environment (especially one as big as the ocean) doesn't disprove evolution even if it's a velociraptor or Anomalocaris. It just means that species was able to survive unchanged in that environment and we didn't find it for a long time.

As for the turvey fossils, Malachite or Moab man has been dated to a few hundred years ago and the footprint evidence looks good as presented by the liar misinformant Don Patton. I'm more interested in what the real experts have to say about it and it still doesn't come close to refuting everything that says there is 60+ million years between dinos and humans. Given the fact that we don't know every type of animal that lived during that time and what their feet looked like I'm not satisfied with the argument from ignorance that it must be human.

Carvings that look like dinosaurs? There are millions of ancient artistic renditions of mythical beasts like dragons and sea serpents. It's no surprise that some of them would look like dinosaurs given man's fascination with giant reptile creatures.

So did I miss anything?

Edit: Yes I did. I notice that the "human" footprints alongside the dino prints are all of the unclear variety with no clear toe marks. The ones that are clearly human and especially the ones that have been shown to have not been carved were removed from their original setting and no evidence was shown that they were found in rock dated to the same period as the dino prints. Oh, wait, there is no way to date them because all those dating methods I listed are fake right?

GreenDrake
05-13-2012, 04:41
And another nonviewer with a preconceived decision?

How old do you personally believe the earth is? Honest question.

Geko45
05-13-2012, 05:55
Carvings that look like dinosaurs? There are millions of ancient artistic renditions of mythical beasts like dragons and sea serpents. It's no surprise that some of them would look like dinosaurs given man's fascination with giant reptile creatures.

Plus, it's entirely possible that a caveman (a misnomer really) could have come across a largely intact fossil and realized they were looking at the remains of some large creature and then painted an image of what they thought it might look like based on what they saw.

juggy4711
05-13-2012, 08:05
Art Bell has been retired for years, however. Anywho, back to the OP presentation. Anyone on this thread, besides me view it yet?

Yes he has. Coast to Coast AM is still going strong though. And I actually prefer George Norry over Bell.

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 08:41
Plus, it's entirely possible that a caveman (a misnomer really) could have come across a largely intact fossil and realized they were looking at the remains of some large creature and then painted an image of what they thought it might look like based on what they saw.

The idea that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence speaks to the idea of evolution, that we are superior because we have evolved to a higher state.
Christianity realizes that we have fallen and have become less than we were in times past physically, mentally, and morally.

It is pretty obvious from the comments of some of the die hard atheists here on this thread that there is no evidence that would convince them that they are not a product of evolution. Their narcissistic pride is at stake.

Geko45
05-13-2012, 08:59
Their narcissistic pride is at stake.

Narcissistic pride would be believing that an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient god created a universe that stretches the vast reaches of space to the length of at least 92 billion light years across and all it contains for the singular purpose of creating and nuturing you, specifically, as his most important creation.

GreenDrake
05-13-2012, 09:01
Narcissistic pride would be believeing that an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient god created a universe that stretches the vast reaches of space to the length of at least 92 billion light years across for the singular purpose of creating and nuturing you, specifically, as his his most important creation.

Geko, he's wayyyy in the deep end on this one. Which I find entertaining and fascinating to watch.

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 09:09
Narcissistic pride would be believing that an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient god created a universe that stretches the vast reaches of space to the length of at least 92 billion light years across and all it contains for the singular purpose of creating and nuturing you, specifically, as his most important creation.


God sure is majestic isn't He? And being willing to be born as a man and dwell with us and die for us shows that His principles are pure. He is also able to call us brethren now that He has connected with us through His Son. Yes , I am proud of my Lord and my God.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you: and, see, I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Amen.

juggy4711
05-13-2012, 09:10
The idea that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence speaks to the idea of evolution, that we are superior because we have evolved to a higher state.
Christianity realizes that we have fallen and have become less than we were in times past physically, mentally, and morally.

It is pretty obvious from the comments of some of the die hard atheists here on this thread that there is no evidence that would convince them that they are not a product of evolution. Their narcissistic pride is at stake.

Actually the most currently accepted theory is that "cavemen" were quite intelligent and that homo sapiens bred them out of existence rather than killed them off. In fact IIRC fairly recent genetic studies have shown that all humans have "caveman" DNA except for sub-Saharan Africans and Australian Aborigines.

Narcissistic pride would be believing that an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient god created a universe that stretches the vast reaches of space to the length of at least 92 billion light years across for the singular purpose of creating and nuturing you, specifically, as his most important creation.

That's just crazy talk. If the universe wasn't created with the sole purpose of providing existence for human beings, why would the Bible be so irrefutable?

Animal Mother
05-13-2012, 10:13
The idea that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence speaks to the idea of evolution, that we are superior because we have evolved to a higher state. If they were so intelligent, why did they live in thatched or mud huts? Only the truly advanced could invent central air.

Christianity realizes that we have fallen and have become less than we were in times past physically, mentally, and morally. Your evidence of this? From biology not theology if you don't mind.

It is pretty obvious from the comments of some of the die hard atheists here on this thread that there is no evidence that would convince them that they are not a product of evolution. Their narcissistic pride is at stake.
This is simply false, produce a million year old example of Homo Sapiens and you'll have done a lot to disprove evolution in humans. It's the religious who ignore the evidence, not those involved with the sciences. The OP in this thread being an excellent example of that.

Geko45
05-13-2012, 11:07
Your evidence of this? From biology not theology if you don't mind.

Good point. Why are there no 6000 year old skeletons of super advanced humans?

muscogee
05-13-2012, 13:52
So what's your explanation for the co-mingled human and dinosaur footprints?

http://www.texasobserver.org/postcards/item/18410-tracking-creation-in-glen-rose
The answer comes from amateur paleontologist Glen Kuban, who’s studied those tracks since the ’80s. They’re actually more dinosaur tracks, Kuban says.

Fossilized tracks were formed when dinosaurs—in this case the herbivore Paluxysaurus (similar to the Brontosaurus you learned about in grade school) and carnivore Acroca*nthosaurus (a smaller cousin of Tyra*nn**osaurus rex)—left footprints in mud that dried and hardened. Later, a different type of sediment washed into the tracks and, over millions of years, turned to stone. Eventually rivers carved through the area and eroded the softer, later sediment, exposing the tracks.

Kuban, later joined by other paleontologists, determined that the “man” tracks are metatarsal prints made by dinosaurs that, instead of walking only on their toes, let their heels drop into the mud. The resulting elongated tracks appeared human-like, and the effect was compounded when mud collapsed over the toe impressions or sediment filled them in. Kuban has presented his work at conferences and published in scientific journals. Among paleontologists, the issue is settled: There are no man tracks.

As with all religion, it's someone's overactive imagination and other people's gullibility.

Kingarthurhk
05-13-2012, 14:02
Narcissistic pride would be believing that an eternal, omnipotent and omniscient god created a universe that stretches the vast reaches of space to the length of at least 92 billion light years across and all it contains for the singular purpose of creating and nuturing you, specifically, as his most important creation.

Actually, that should inspire humbleness.

Kingarthurhk
05-13-2012, 14:04
http://www.texasobserver.org/postcards/item/18410-tracking-creation-in-glen-rose


As with all religion, it's someone's overactive imagination and other people's gullibility.

Odd Dinsosaurs would have 10 toes shaped like a human foot...:upeyes:

muscogee
05-13-2012, 14:08
The idea that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence speaks to the idea of evolution, that we are superior because we have evolved to a higher state.
Christianity realizes that we have fallen and have become less than we were in times past physically, mentally, and morally.

It is pretty obvious from the comments of some of the die hard atheists here on this thread that there is no evidence that would convince them that they are not a product of evolution. Their narcissistic pride is at stake.

You're projecting. Those are your words. Not mine, his, or anyone of those you call narcissistic. However, it is narcissistic to think you have God in your pocket.

muscogee
05-13-2012, 14:19
Odd Dinsosaurs would have 10 toes shaped like a human foot...:upeyes:

Now who didn't read the article?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/diorama_sky/4513117563/#/photos/diorama_sky/4513117563/lightbox/

Do a web search for"Paluxysaurus foot".

Kingarthurhk
05-13-2012, 14:59
Now who didn't read the article?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/diorama_sky/4513117563/#/photos/diorama_sky/4513117563/lightbox/

Do a web search for"Paluxysaurus foot".

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm

void *
05-13-2012, 15:12
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm

http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/arguments-we-dont-use

Look at number nine under "Arguments that should be avoided (because further research is still needed, new research has invalidated aspects of it, or biblical implications may discount it)"

When even AIG is saying 'Don't use that argument', your position has a *ton* of problems.

(EDIT: I should amend that to, when both AIG *and* ICR say it's a bad argument ...)

FCoulter
05-13-2012, 15:21
Some books to consider.

Dawkins' God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life

Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution

The Twilight of Atheism: The Rise and Fall of Disbelief in the Modern World

What Darwin Didn't Know

Uncommon Dissent: Intellectuals Who Find Darwinism Unconvincing

Mere Creation: Science, Faith & Intelligent Design

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design

Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth?

Not by Chance: Shattering the Modern Theory of Evolution

Animal Mother
05-13-2012, 15:39
Some books to consider.

Dawkins' God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life

Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution

The Twilight of Atheism: The Rise and Fall of Disbelief in the Modern World

What Darwin Didn't Know

Uncommon Dissent: Intellectuals Who Find Darwinism Unconvincing

Mere Creation: Science, Faith & Intelligent Design

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design

Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth?

Not by Chance: Shattering the Modern Theory of Evolution
Only if the basis of consideration were "a reading list of works advocating completely discredited and disproven arguments".

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 15:43
You're projecting. Those are your words. Not mine, his, or anyone of those you call narcissistic. However, it is narcissistic to think you have God in your pocket.

Actually I do not have God in my pocket. I am in His hand.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fatherís hand.
10:30 I and my Father are one.

muscogee
05-13-2012, 19:55
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/tracks.htm

Yeah, that what I'm talking about. A Paluxysaurus footprint.

muscogee
05-13-2012, 20:15
Actually I do not have God in my pocket. I am in His hand.

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fatherís hand.
10:30 I and my Father are one.

So that justifies you being dishonest? No one has suggested the following but you, yet you ascribe it to those of us who disagree with you. I'm sure God's proud of you.


The idea that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence speaks to the idea of evolution, that we are superior because we have evolved to a higher state.
Christianity realizes that we have fallen and have become less than we were in times past physically, mentally, and morally.

It is pretty obvious from the comments of some of the die hard atheists here on this thread that there is no evidence that would convince them that they are not a product of evolution. Their narcissistic pride is at stake.

This is a very ignorant statement. Homo sapiens are no more or less intelligent than they always have been. Would you care to apologize for libeling people?

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 23:54
This is a very ignorant statement. Homo sapiens are no more or less intelligent than they always have been. Would you care to apologize for libeling people?

Can you prove your statement?

muscogee
05-14-2012, 06:35
Can you prove your statement?

We have no evidence we have ever been more or less intelligent than we are now. There is no reason to assume otherwise. Due to their cave art we know they could think abstractly. Our IQ test scores have been going up since the forties, but that's because we're better educated. That's a very long discussion not relevant of this thread.

You made specific statement about people in this forum. You said. "that die hard atheists in this forum believed that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence". Can you offer any evidence to support that statement? If not, can you admit you were making false statements? Can you apologize for your mistake? I have never seen you admit you were wrong about anything yet you accuse others of narcissism. Something about, "Judge not less you be judged" comes to mind.

rgregoryb
05-14-2012, 18:42
I wonder if dinosaur meat tasted good. I bet it did. I bet it tasted real good.

Fred Flintstone, who also proves dinosaurs and man co-existed, sure enjoyed a rack of dino meat every once and awhile.......

Vic Hays
05-14-2012, 22:59
We have no evidence we have ever been more or less intelligent than we are now. There is no reason to assume otherwise. Due to their cave art we know they could think abstractly. Our IQ test scores have been going up since the forties, but that's because we're better educated. That's a very long discussion not relevant of this thread.

You made specific statement about people in this forum. You said. "that die hard atheists in this forum believed that "cavemen" were lacking in intelligence". Can you offer any evidence to support that statement? If not, can you admit you were making false statements? Can you apologize for your mistake? I have never seen you admit you were wrong about anything yet you accuse others of narcissism. Something about, "Judge not less you be judged" comes to mind.

All you have to do is go back through the threads and see the number of times belief in a flat earth or no knowledge of germ theory or such like accusations have been leveled at Christians. If you are not one of those people don't take it personal.

juggy4711
05-14-2012, 23:02
All you have to do is go back through the threads and see the number of times belief in a flat earth or no knowledge of germ theory or such like accusations have been leveled at Christians. If you are not one of those people don't take it personal.

What does that have to do with unintelligent cavemen?

Animal Mother
05-14-2012, 23:38
All you have to do is go back through the threads and see the number of times belief in a flat earth or no knowledge of germ theory or such like accusations have been leveled at Christians. If you are not one of those people don't take it personal.
Christians aren't necessarily lacking in intelligence, but it does seem like a certain subset are often lacking in knowledge. Often intentionally so.

steveksux
05-15-2012, 05:17
All you have to do is go back through the threads and see the number of times belief in a flat earth or no knowledge of germ theory or such like accusations have been leveled at Christians. If you are not one of those people don't take it personal.
There's that whiny persecution complex again. :upeyes: That's rubbish. No such accusations have been leveled at Christians en masse.

If a particular Christian prefers to believe medieval Christian theories instead of one, or more branches of science even though there's overwhelming evidence for it from multiple independent disciplines, its perfectly fair game to ask what other branches of science have been discarded in favor of the corresponding medieval Christian beliefs. How else are we supposed to find out how deep the rabbit hole goes?

Randy