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DonGlock26
05-13-2012, 07:24
California budget deficit has swelled to $16 billion, governor says





Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/#ixzz1ukuYLUCf


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/


Well, what will it be California? More taxes or gov't cuts? Of course, those cuts will always involve threats of cutting teachers and public safety workers. They never seem to threaten taxpayers with cuts in bureaucrats and regulators. I wonder why?


_

engineer151515
05-13-2012, 07:33
Classic "tax the rich" mentality.

California has already seen a great deal of industry flee the State's oppressive tax structure, crazy Propositions, insurance madness, and choking environmental regulations.

Wait till California sees that the "rich" can leave too.

DonGlock26
05-13-2012, 07:56
Classic "tax the rich" mentality.

California has already seen a great deal of industry flee the State's oppressive tax structure, crazy Propositions, insurance madness, and choking environmental regulations.

Wait till California sees that the "rich" can leave too.

Europe's woes aren't enough for them. They will have to see what socialism can do to a state first hand. :upeyes:

_

maxsnafu
05-13-2012, 09:18
California budget deficit has swelled to $16 billion, governor says





Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/#ixzz1ukuYLUCf


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/


Well, what will it be California? More taxes or gov't cuts? Of course, those cuts will always involve threats of cutting teachers and public safety workers. They never seem to threaten taxpayers with cuts in bureaucrats and regulators. I wonder why?


_

As long as the rest of the country doesn't have to bail out California I really couldn't care less what happens to it. I hope they increase spending. Watching this train wreck is fun.

callihan_44
05-13-2012, 10:25
keep voting in tax and spend politicians, lib californians wont get it till the ship is sunk and then will spread like a cancer to healthier cells in other parts of the country to vote in the same agenda to kill off the host....

kenpoprofessor
05-13-2012, 10:33
But, but, but, I thought everyone who's there should stay and fight, that's the right thing to do right? :wavey: Not run away like little ole me? :rofl: They've got family and financial interests that prevent them from pulling up stakes and getting outta Dodge, so I guess they're just gonna have to suck it up. :embarassed:

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

certifiedfunds
05-13-2012, 10:58
Watching California crash will be spectacular!

kenpoprofessor
05-13-2012, 11:01
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/13/jerry-brown-struggles-with-public-sector-unions

I do so love seeing these democrats eat each other up when the S is HTF :faint:

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Brucev
05-13-2012, 11:10
Kalifornia is dealing with the sludge that remains after drinking to long the koolaid Sacramento was pouring.

azatrox
05-13-2012, 11:18
They'll get a bailout....with YOUR money.
Too big to fail.

Bruce H
05-13-2012, 12:36
Well hell is isn't a trillion yet. Who cares.

certifiedfunds
05-13-2012, 12:56
Well hell is isn't a trillion yet. Who cares.

Good point. When it comes to government deficits, we count in trillions now.

pugman
05-13-2012, 13:06
Classic "tax the rich" mentality.

California has already seen a great deal of industry flee the State's oppressive tax structure, crazy Propositions, insurance madness, and choking environmental regulations.

Wait till California sees that the "rich" can leave too.

I work for a major health insurance provider.

A not in name committee of analysts (which I have provided data to) has "not" been formed to look into the cost of NOT doing business in California.

The only backlash we can see right now is political pressure from Washington forcing us to stay in California to share in the risk; or competitive pressure where another company might convince one of our other major plans "well, they pulled out of California they might pull out of [insert your state of choice] next!"

The cost of doing business in California is crazy expensive for us; and its not even the state regs but the actual cost period. L.A is the single most expensive market we have on a cost basis; even NYC is cheaper.

Well hell is isn't a trillion yet. Who cares.

Good point. When it comes to government deficits, we count in trillions now.

Typical Government b.s toting the lower number while hiding the truth.

Depending on who you want to believe, their government pensions are underfunded by anywhere from $535-$775 billion; they should reach a $1 trillion in under ten years.

California's problem IS readily fixable. Wisconsin's budget deficit was $3.6 billion we have 5.7 million in the state; California budget deficit with nearly 38 million in the state shows our pp was in fact worse than California.

Introduce Gov Walker (under recall right now) who stood up to the union.

The deficit disappeared and taxes fell for the first time in years.

Cavalry Doc
05-13-2012, 13:08
Makes me think a northern border fence would make more sense than a southern one for Texas.



Shiite, we are in for some rough times.:shocked:

CAcop
05-13-2012, 13:23
California budget deficit has swelled to $16 billion, governor says





Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/#ixzz1ukuYLUCf


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/12/california-budget-deficit-has-swelled-16-billion-governor-says/


Well, what will it be California? More taxes or gov't cuts? Of course, those cuts will always involve threats of cutting teachers and public safety workers. They never seem to threaten taxpayers with cuts in bureaucrats and regulators. I wonder why?


_

My city plays the game of "all city workers are the same" but then when we want furloughs like the other city workers "no we can't do that with you guys, that would be a reduction in police services."

They are using police and schools to scare people. What I find funny is that they never mention fire as a place to cut.

CAcop
05-13-2012, 13:25
But, but, but, I thought everyone who's there should stay and fight, that's the right thing to do right? :wavey: Not run away like little ole me? :rofl: They've got family and financial interests that prevent them from pulling up stakes and getting outta Dodge, so I guess they're just gonna have to suck it up. :embarassed:

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

Do you really want more Californians? Your state just might vote for Obama this year. Take a look at the polls. You might have 20 years before you are like CA.

CAcop
05-13-2012, 13:27
Kalifornia is dealing with the sludge that remains after drinking to long the koolaid Sacramento was pouring.

ITs not Sacto, its L.A. The greater L.A. area is huge, probably 2/3 of the population, and they are very liberal.

certifiedfunds
05-13-2012, 13:32
My city plays the game of "all city workers are the same" but then when we want furloughs like the other city workers "no we can't do that with you guys, that would be a reduction in police services."

They are using police and schools to scare people. What I find funny is that they never mention fire as a place to cut.

Besides it being politically expedient to threaten police and schools, understand the difference between mandatory and discretionary spending. Police, for example, usually fall under discretionary.

CAcop
05-13-2012, 13:48
Besides it being politically expedient to threaten police and schools, understand the difference between mandatory and discretionary spending. Police, for example, usually fall under discretionary.

What Mayberry do you live in?

Oh, wait Louisiana.

certifiedfunds
05-13-2012, 13:53
What Mayberry do you live in?

Oh, wait Louisiana.

I'm sorry. There was no derision in that post of mine. What's your point?

When it comes time to cut government spending, mandatory spending is virtually untouchable, which leaves discretionary (police) spending on the chopping block. Since most people would not like to hear of police presence being reduced, it is used as leverage by the politicians over their constituents.

CAcop
05-13-2012, 14:07
I'm sorry. There was no derision in that post of mine. What's your point?

When it comes time to cut government spending, mandatory spending is virtually untouchable, which leaves discretionary (police) spending on the chopping block. Since most people would not like to hear of police presence being reduced, it is used as leverage by the politicians over their constituents.

My point is in many place police spending is not discretionary. There have only been 4 agencies that I know of that have laid off officers. One of them hired them back, or at least the ones who didn't find better paying jobs elsewhere. LE pretty much ran close to the bone before the crash. Even now the state's population is increasing. Unless people want reductions in services they will have to pay the same or more to get the level of services they want. We are running 5% short and realistically another 5% are useless since they are in training. People are already bent we don't take noninjury traffic accident reports. What else would you like us to cut?

When the state has 12% of the population of the country and 2/3 of the welfare cases there is the problem. Realistically we need to cut those people off and if they can't afford to live here they can go to TX or LA where it is cheaper to live. We should not be subsidizing people so they can live in a nice climate. I went to college and worked hard to be able to live in one of the most beautiful places to live in the world. If I couldn't, hello Carson City.

certifiedfunds
05-13-2012, 14:15
My point is in many place police spending is not discretionary. There have only been 4 agencies that I know of that have laid off officers. One of them hired them back, or at least the ones who didn't find better paying jobs elsewhere. LE pretty much ran close to the bone before the crash. Even now the state's population is increasing. Unless people want reductions in services they will have to pay the same or more to get the level of services they want. We are running 5% short and realistically another 5% are useless since they are in training. People are already bent we don't take noninjury traffic accident reports. What else would you like us to cut?

When the state has 12% of the population of the country and 2/3 of the welfare cases there is the problem. Realistically we need to cut those people off and if they can't afford to live here they can go to TX or LA where it is cheaper to live. We should not be subsidizing people so they can live in a nice climate. I went to college and worked hard to be able to live in one of the most beautiful places to live in the world. If I couldn't, hello Carson City.

thats why i said usually

Are you certain police isn't discretionary where you live?

As for the running short, private sector does that as a rule.

Just1More
05-13-2012, 14:29
George Cloooney should host another fundraiser.

Little Joe
05-13-2012, 15:07
You notice how they always try to scare the voters with public safety and their children's education as the first draconian cuts.

CAcop
05-13-2012, 15:10
thats why i said usually

Are you certain police isn't discretionary where you live?

As for the running short, private sector does that as a rule.

Not really. People want the police to come within 15 minutes to every call no matter how small. You can't do that on a shoestring budget. I don't think you get how short LE runs in this country. Although small towns are generally the exception. Small towns tend to overstaff. Hence the comment about Mayberry.

In the private sector when business goes up they hire more people. If they don't clients go elsewhere rather than wait. Time is money.

teumessian_fox
05-13-2012, 15:17
Watching California crash will be spectacular!

The state with the most electoral votes of any state in the nation? No, it won't be spectacular. It will be maddening. Maddening because some pimp like obummer will demand we bail them out.

And kalifornistan will continue the practices that are bankrupting them, viz. handouts to the entitlement whores and crimigrant illegals.

Politicians in kal don't care about the future, virtue, or anything else other than buying enough votes to keep them in office. They're too stupid to do any other job.

certifiedfunds
05-13-2012, 15:22
The state with the most electoral votes of any state in the nation? No, it won't be spectacular. It will be maddening. Maddening because some pimp like obummer will demand we bail them out.

And kalifornistan will continue the practices that are bankrupting them, viz. handouts to the entitlement whores and crimigrant illegals.

Politicians in kal don't care about the future, virtue, or anything else other than buying enough votes to keep them in office. They're too stupid to do any other job.

California really does need to be broken up into several states.

CAcop
05-13-2012, 15:37
California really does need to be broken up into several states.

I posted a few weeks ago about how you could break up CA using economic zones as a guide. It would be 4-5 states.

shadowman024
05-13-2012, 16:14
big social programs libs in control what a surprise not.

coastal4974
05-13-2012, 18:54
What’s the problem? This is what the good people of California voted for.

I say they need to raise taxes, how hard is that?

CAcop
05-13-2012, 19:20
What’s the problem? This is what the good people of California voted for.

I say they need to raise taxes, how hard is that?

CA is all about everyone wanting their slice of the government cheese but they don't want to pay for somebody else's slice of government cheese.

teumessian_fox
05-13-2012, 19:28
California really does need to be broken up into several states.

I left there in '06 and that had been a topic of discussion for years. A state assemblyman was actually a close friend.

It will never happen. The pimps and whores in Sacramento will never allow it to happen as they would never voluntarily forfeit the votes.

If it were to happen, I'd put LA, the Bay area (including sanfransicko), and Sacramento in liberal kalifornia. And OC and the Valley in Conservative California. It was a really convoluted line when I drew it.

coastal4974
05-13-2012, 19:45
CA is all about everyone wanting their slice of the government cheese but they don't want to pay for somebody else's slice of government cheese.


Seems to be a lot of that going around. California is never one to be out done.

Glock26z
05-13-2012, 20:23
To all the Kommiefornias that voted for these jerks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TOLD YOU SO.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 14:20
California budget deficit has swelled to $16 billion, governor says

Well, what will it be California? More taxes or gov't cuts? Of course, those cuts will always involve threats of cutting teachers and public safety workers. They never seem to threaten taxpayers with cuts in bureaucrats and regulators. I wonder why?


_
Got news for you...... we have had MASSIVE cuts in schools, public safety, fire etc and we will have even more. The main reason we are bankrupt is we just had eight years of the Governator who (like all republicans) just kept screaming NO TAXES all the while state revenue dried up and the debt grew bigger and bigger. kali "balances" it's budget using bonds which pay high interest.... like going to a loan shark to get the money to pay your mastercard.

Schwarzie finally admitted at the end of his term that cuts alone could not possibly balance the budget and the GOP legislature was just stonewalling.

Anyway, there will be both tax increases and gruesome cuts to try to get this under control because they did not act to get it fixed back when it was still manageable.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 14:21
To all the Kommiefornias that voted for these jerks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TOLD YOU SO.Partly true: the idiots here are in love with Movie Star Governors..... so much so they elect them without even thinking about how much damage they are going to do.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 14:25
Whatís the problem? This is what the good people of California voted for.

I say they need to raise taxes, how hard is that?It's impossible because the legislature has enough GOP members to block any tax increases.... and they do. They just plug their ears, stamp their feet and scream "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!....." anytime there is an attempt to raise revenue. Same thing as the national congress: just dig in their heels and stonewall/sabotage everything.



Brown Halts California Budget Talks as Republicans Balk at Tax Extension


By Michael Marois and James Nash - Mar 29, 2011 9:01 PM PT



Facebook Share (http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbloom.bg%2Fgy0kFF&t=Brown+Halts+California+Budget+Talks+as+Republicans+Balk+at+Tax+Extension)

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California Governor Jerry Brown (http://topics.bloomberg.com/jerry-brown/) broke off negotiations with Republican lawmakers for support of a June referendum on $9.3 billion of higher taxes and fees, the cornerstone of his deficit-cutting budget plan.
Closed-door talks during the past month have failed to win over Republicans needed to put the tax issue (http://www.dof.ca.gov/) on a statewide ballot, Brown, 72, said yesterday. While the governorís fellow Democrats hold majorities in the Senate and the Assembly, they lack the two-thirds needed to authorize the vote. The leader of the Senate said a June referendum is now impossible.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-29/brown-halts-tax-referendum-talks-with-california-republicans-1-.html





Budget Vote on Tap, Republicans Pledge To Block Tax Increases ... (http://www.californiahealthline.org/Articles/2009/6/18/Budget-Vote-on-Tap-Republicans-Pledge-To-Block-Tax-Increases.aspx)chrome://searchshield/content/safe.gif


www.california (http://www.%3Cb%3Ecalifornia%3C/b%3E)healthline.org/Articles/2009/6/18/​Budget-Vote-on-Tap...
... Schwarzenegger and Republican lawmakers have said they oppose the tax increases ... Republicans Pledge To Block Tax Increases ..
Republicans block Jerry Brown's budget move. What are his options now?

California's governor is unable to persuade GOP lawmakers to OK his plan to solve a looming budget shortfall. Jerry Brown might try an end run, if it's legal, or present an all-cuts budget.



http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2011/0315/Republicans-block-Jerry-Brown-s-budget-move.-What-are-his-options-now

callihan_44
05-14-2012, 15:34
Partly true: the idiots here are in love with Movie Star Governors..... so much so they elect them without even thinking about how much damage they are going to do.

you have lib jerry brown at the helm, what's the problem? also the state legislature is stacked with libs you should be happy?

engineer151515
05-14-2012, 15:43
It's impossible because the legislature has enough GOP members to block any tax increases.... and they do. They just plug their ears, stamp their feet and scream "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!....." anytime there is an attempt to raise revenue. Same thing as the national congress: just dig in their heels and stonewall/sabotage everything.

Speaking from a National perspective, we don't have a taxation problem.

We have an overspending problem.

Governments need to live within their financial means.

engineer151515
05-14-2012, 15:55
Partly true: the idiots here are in love with Movie Star Governors..... so much so they elect them without even thinking about how much damage they are going to do.

Funny you should say that.

I was thinking the same thing about Obama.

Ruble Noon
05-14-2012, 15:59
you have lib jerry brown at the helm, what's the problem? also the state legislature is stacked with libs you should be happy?

Governor Moonbeam that got Kommiefornia started into this mess in the first place.

certifiedfunds
05-14-2012, 20:50
Got news for you...... we have had MASSIVE cuts in schools, public safety, fire etc and we will have even more. The main reason we are bankrupt is we just had eight years of the Governator who (like all republicans) just kept screaming NO TAXES all the while state revenue dried up and the debt grew bigger and bigger. kali "balances" it's budget using bonds which pay high interest.... like going to a loan shark to get the money to pay your mastercard.

Schwarzie finally admitted at the end of his term that cuts alone could not possibly balance the budget and the GOP legislature was just stonewalling.

Anyway, there will be both tax increases and gruesome cuts to try to get this under control because they did not act to get it fixed back when it was still manageable.

No, your problem is you spend like drunken sailors.

barbedwiresmile
05-14-2012, 20:56
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/05/california-deficit-soared-to-16-billion.html





.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 22:53
you have lib jerry brown at the helm, what's the problem? also the state legislature is stacked with libs you should be happy?Based on your response, I assume you don't read English since your reply ignores all of the information posted in my original post... maybe if the text is bigger:

While the governorís fellow Democrats hold majorities in the Senate and the Assembly, they lack the two-thirds needed to authorize the vote.

Alizard
05-14-2012, 23:00
Governor Moonbeam that got Kommiefornia started into this mess in the first place.
It's pointless to argue when only one party has any knowledge.... your whole world revolves around Reaganisms such as all government is evil, all problems can be fixed by slashing budgets, all democrats are the problem.

The truth is cali plunged into debt during the era where Enron robbed the state of about $15B by price rigging energy sold to california by conspiring with other suppliers to create artificial shortages and blacked out half our state.

There have been a lot of other problems since, but tht single blow sent us over the cliff.

The snowballing debt increase here mirrors national level since we also have a government which contains enough delusional GOP senators who claim all problems can be solved by budget cutting... despite how much they have already cut. They keep financing the budget by selling bonds..... they are stuck because no GOP senator will ever allow a tax increase. And our budget can't be balanced through cuts alone.

Facts are stubborn things, so I strongly recommend you avoid them at all cost if you wish to safeguard your "view" of the world.

It's all Obama's fault...... just keep chanting that until you feel better.




http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1972574.stm

Enron 'manipulated energy crisis'

Two US senators are demanding a criminal inquiry after evidence emerged which suggested that Enron manipulated the power market to make extra money out of California's energy crisis last year.

July 15, 2005:Enron agrees to a $1.5 billion US settlement to end claims that it manipulated the electricity market during the California energy crisis of 2000 and 2001.

Enron energy trader pleads guilty

The former head of Enron electricity trading has pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy to commit fraud for his part in manipulating California's energy market to drive up power prices.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2338185.stm

engineer151515
05-14-2012, 23:42
Enron was able to manipulate markets because California Democrats capped retail electricity charges in a feel-good price fixing attempt.

Yes - Facts are stubborn things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

Brucev
05-15-2012, 05:33
California really does need to be broken up into several states.

Absolutely no. The result would be that the kalifornia clowns would have more votes in the senate and house and more power in the electoral college as the power of states dominated by conservatives and repubicans was diluted. So... no. Absolutely no. Rather kalifornia needs to be relegated to the status of a protectorate... no longer citizens or anything else. Simply treat the state like a economic colony and nothing more. Why not? There is excellent historical precedent for just such a approach to dealing with kalifornia. That is exactly what was done during reconstruction following the War Between the States.

pugman
05-15-2012, 06:09
California really does need to be broken up into several states.

There is at least one other state which would fit this mold.

Illinois.

Northern IL and Southern IL are in effect two states.

callihan_44
05-15-2012, 06:21
Based on your response, I assume you don't read English since your reply ignores all of the information posted in my original post... maybe if the text is bigger:

based on your response you dont get the fact that LIBERALS are the problem, not the solution. I personally dont care if the government taxes the rich into the poor house in california, IMO that could be a good thing. Those small businesses will relocate to other states bringing jobs with them and more than likely the illegals that infest the state will self deport when the freebies are gone.

Alizard
05-15-2012, 14:13
based on your response you dont get the fact that LIBERALS are the problemThanks for proving what I posted with your monochromatic programmed responses. "Liberals are the problem"..... sure, except they elected a GOP governor and he ran the state into deep bankruptcy.

And explain for the class, if "liberals are the problem", why is it so many redneck states are also bankrupt?

The bottom line is that kali is a state yoked with a heavy burden at all times (we probably support and carry 15 million illegals and their families on any given day) and during good times, we could afford it. Not any more. We also have one of the highest unemployment rates and have been hit worst by the real estate bubble bursting.

But again.... avoid facts, they are complicated. Simple minds can only feel comfortable with simple concepts so just keep saying the one you like best: liberals are the problem

Alizard
05-15-2012, 14:18
Enron was able to manipulate markets because California Democrats capped retail electricity charges in a feel-good price fixing attempt.

Yes - Facts are stubborn things.

Cali deregulated its energy market. Enron was doing the price fixing.

The financial crisis was possible because of partial deregulation legislation instituted in 1996 by Governor Pete Wilson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Wilson). Enron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron) took advantage of this deregulation and was involved in economic withholding and inflated price bidding in California's spot markets.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis#cite_note-8) The crisis cost $40 to $45 billion.[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis#cite_note-9)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis


GEE..... if we hadn't been robbed of $40 BILLION...... I guess we wouldn't have the $16B deficit we now have?

math is simple too....

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 14:20
Here it goes again. Liberal nonsense.

Obama plant.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 203

Alizard
05-15-2012, 14:25
Here it goes again. Liberal nonsense.

Obama plant.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 203Another brilliant and on topic response from the unarmed one.

EXPLAIN: this whole thread is about how Kali and the idiot liberals mismanagement caused the $16B deficit.... yet, if Enron had not ripped us off for $40 -$45B dollars, we would be at least $24B in the black.

I'll wait while you get your calculator.....

Yeah, that's what I thought you said.

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 14:29
The bottom line is that kali is a state yoked with a heavy burden at all times (we probably support and carry 15 million illegals and their families on any given day) and during good times, we could afford it. Not any more.

This sentence says it all. Why would a state even want to support people in the country illegally?

You're good with cut and paste propaganda but lack common sense.

And I thought you said you were going to ignore me.

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 14:51
No, your problem is you spend like drunken sailors.

Oh, and I can't pass this up.

You insult drunken sailers, sir!

CAcop
05-15-2012, 15:11
This sentence says it all. Why would a state even want to support people in the country illegally?

You're good with cut and paste propaganda but lack common sense.

And I thought you said you were going to ignore me.

Low wage workers. Ag is huge in the Cnetral Valley all done with illegals.

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 15:35
Low wage workers. Ag is huge in the Cnetral Valley all done with illegals.

I know what their function is. I don't understand how Cal. thinks they can support them with medical, assisted housing, welfare, etc. and have it not affect their economy. Then charge its citizens with the burden of paying for it. Then regulate and restrict the legal residents to the point that they move to other states.

I'm not saying that is the only problem there, and yes, the governors have all been loose with the purse strings without a way to pay for it.

Split the state into at least two states.

Ruble Noon
05-15-2012, 16:15
I know what their function is. I don't understand how Cal. thinks they can support them with medical, assisted housing, welfare, etc. and have it not affect their economy. Then charge its citizens with the burden of paying for it. Then regulate and restrict the legal residents to the point that they move to other states.

I'm not saying that is the only problem there, and yes, the governors have all been loose with the purse strings without a way to pay for it.

Split the state into at least two states.

Nuke it from orbit before the MFer's spread like a plague across the land.

callihan_44
05-15-2012, 17:25
Thanks for proving what I posted with your monochromatic programmed responses. "Liberals are the problem"..... sure, except they elected a GOP governor and he ran the state into deep bankruptcy.

And explain for the class, if "liberals are the problem", why is it so many redneck states are also bankrupt?

The bottom line is that kali is a state yoked with a heavy burden at all times (we probably support and carry 15 million illegals and their families on any given day) and during good times, we could afford it. Not any more. We also have one of the highest unemployment rates and have been hit worst by the real estate bubble bursting.

But again.... avoid facts, they are complicated. Simple minds can only feel comfortable with simple concepts so just keep saying the one you like best: liberals are the problem
first of all arnold a republican? lol someone accidently put an R next to his name. Second of all THERE are a chitload of democrats in the state house. Jerry has been governor for 1-1/2 yrs and now they are MUCH worse off! keep drinking the koolaid there bud.

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 17:46
first of all arnold a republican? lol someone accidently put an R next to his name. Second of all THERE are a chitload of democrats in the state house. Jerry has been governor for 1-1/2 yrs and now they are MUCH worse off! keep drinking the koolaid there bud.

He's not drinking it, it's on IV.

Alizard
05-15-2012, 17:51
Pretty good summary of some of the key blunders:


http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/deficits-revenues-down-history-mess

These sudden ups and downs were essentially caused by three events: two big "bubbles" that brought in a lot of money and then, suddenly, didn't//// Add to these circumstances the over-dependence of the state on a narrow set of revenues, and it's inevitable that big changes in those revenues bring big changes to the condition of the budget.


I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles
The first bubble was the "dot-com" boom during which share values of technology stocks shot up in value and then plunged. //


The second bubble occurred because of a housing market that saw increased median resale values for single-family homes shoot up from $262,000 in 2001 to $560,000 in 2007, before falling back to $275,000 in 2009. //


1999-2001
For most of the years prior to the dot-com swell-and-shrink, the budget was more or less in balance without adopting too many tricks or gimmicks. ///


The biggest ticket item for the budget was the cut in the vehicle license fee (VLF) which reduced the personal property tax on automobiles from 2% of vehicle value to .65%. Since this money had gone directly to local governments to pay for fire and police services, the state had to "backfill", that is, replace, all the lost revenue out of the General Fund...to the tune of about $6 billion each year. At the time, this was not meant to be a permanent action, but only a year-by-year reduction///

2002-2004
The whole thing went "boom" when the dot-com companies began to melt down and, in November of 2002, the LAO projected an operating deficit of over $12 billion at the end of the five-year forecast period. / The legislature began to cut the budget, with both permanent and temporary reductions, as well as trying to find some temporary revenue. The party lines were hardening, however, all over the country, and there were few votes for any new taxes. When Arnold came into office, he made the reduction in the Vehicle License Fee "permanent" and largely tried to resolve the deficits through borrowing.



Convincing the electorate that this was a good idea (after all, credit cards are free money, right?), he added $15 billion dollars in new bonds just to pay the state's debts. Unfortunately, such large-scale borrowing simply meant that the money paid on borrowed funds would balloon and eat up more and more of the General Fund.


2005-2007
In November 2004, the LAO projected an operating deficit of about $6 billion at the end of the five-year forecast period, and in the November 2005 Fiscal Outlook, the LAO pegged the number at under $1 billion. Treating the breather as though it were going to last, the Governor and the Legislature were reluctant to adopt permanent cuts. The 2/3 vote requirements on raising taxes made it impossible, in the new hard line of party differences, to seek new permanent revenue. The solution was simply to try to keep the state's nose above water with cuts, cuts, cuts, but not the most bloody, and borrowing, borrowing, borrowing.


2008-2010
Then, it all went "boom" again. Housing values dropped precipitously as the inflated mortgage securities scams fell apart. State revenues plummeted as houses lost value, foreclosures abounded and people lost their jobs. The largest operating deficits in the history of the state began, and the last three LAO Fiscal Outlook projections have all shown operating deficits of about $20 billion at the end of each five-year forecast period.



With the anti-tax forces now solidified and buttressed with threats from Washington anti-tax think tanks (and visits from Grover Nordquist to the Republican caucus to keep them in line), there were no permanent solutions available except cuts, cuts, cuts. Although all the spending reductions are permanent, there has been no ability to get agreement to any permanent revenue. //


Current Problem: 2011 and Beyond
Because there was so much reliance on borrowing during Arnold's terms, the operating deficit has gotten worse, and attempts to fill it with cuts alone, brought about by Republican intransigence on taxes, has devastated public education, services, public safety and health.

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 18:02
Copy, paste, copy, paste, copy, paste....

Alizard
05-15-2012, 18:04
Interesting..... if states going bankrupt is a "liberal" problem..... that the following states are on the bankrupt list:



North carolina

Indiana

Florida

Texas

South Carolina

Kentucky

Georgia

Nevada

Virginia

Arkansas

Alabama

Tennessee

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/32-states-now-officially-bankrupt-378-billion-borrowed-treasury-fund-unemployment-ca-mi-ny-w

certifiedfunds
05-15-2012, 18:10
Oh, and I can't pass this up.

You insult drunken sailers, sir!

I did and I apologize Lord.

certifiedfunds
05-15-2012, 18:11
Pretty good summary of some of the key blunders:


http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/site/deficits-revenues-down-history-mess

These sudden ups and downs were essentially caused by three events: two big "bubbles" that brought in a lot of money and then, suddenly, didn't//// Add to these circumstances the over-dependence of the state on a narrow set of revenues, and it's inevitable that big changes in those revenues bring big changes to the condition of the budget.


I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles
The first bubble was the "dot-com" boom during which share values of technology stocks shot up in value and then plunged. //


The second bubble occurred because of a housing market that saw increased median resale values for single-family homes shoot up from $262,000 in 2001 to $560,000 in 2007, before falling back to $275,000 in 2009. //


1999-2001
For most of the years prior to the dot-com swell-and-shrink, the budget was more or less in balance without adopting too many tricks or gimmicks. ///


The biggest ticket item for the budget was the cut in the vehicle license fee (VLF) which reduced the personal property tax on automobiles from 2% of vehicle value to .65%. Since this money had gone directly to local governments to pay for fire and police services, the state had to "backfill", that is, replace, all the lost revenue out of the General Fund...to the tune of about $6 billion each year. At the time, this was not meant to be a permanent action, but only a year-by-year reduction///

2002-2004
The whole thing went "boom" when the dot-com companies began to melt down and, in November of 2002, the LAO projected an operating deficit of over $12 billion at the end of the five-year forecast period. / The legislature began to cut the budget, with both permanent and temporary reductions, as well as trying to find some temporary revenue. The party lines were hardening, however, all over the country, and there were few votes for any new taxes. When Arnold came into office, he made the reduction in the Vehicle License Fee "permanent" and largely tried to resolve the deficits through borrowing.



Convincing the electorate that this was a good idea (after all, credit cards are free money, right?), he added $15 billion dollars in new bonds just to pay the state's debts. Unfortunately, such large-scale borrowing simply meant that the money paid on borrowed funds would balloon and eat up more and more of the General Fund.


2005-2007
In November 2004, the LAO projected an operating deficit of about $6 billion at the end of the five-year forecast period, and in the November 2005 Fiscal Outlook, the LAO pegged the number at under $1 billion. Treating the breather as though it were going to last, the Governor and the Legislature were reluctant to adopt permanent cuts. The 2/3 vote requirements on raising taxes made it impossible, in the new hard line of party differences, to seek new permanent revenue. The solution was simply to try to keep the state's nose above water with cuts, cuts, cuts, but not the most bloody, and borrowing, borrowing, borrowing.


2008-2010
Then, it all went "boom" again. Housing values dropped precipitously as the inflated mortgage securities scams fell apart. State revenues plummeted as houses lost value, foreclosures abounded and people lost their jobs. The largest operating deficits in the history of the state began, and the last three LAO Fiscal Outlook projections have all shown operating deficits of about $20 billion at the end of each five-year forecast period.



With the anti-tax forces now solidified and buttressed with threats from Washington anti-tax think tanks (and visits from Grover Nordquist to the Republican caucus to keep them in line), there were no permanent solutions available except cuts, cuts, cuts. Although all the spending reductions are permanent, there has been no ability to get agreement to any permanent revenue. //


Current Problem: 2011 and Beyond
Because there was so much reliance on borrowing during Arnold's terms, the operating deficit has gotten worse, and attempts to fill it with cuts alone, brought about by Republican intransigence on taxes, has devastated public education, services, public safety and health.

I believe this is a violation of TOS.

concretefuzzynuts
05-15-2012, 18:33
Interesting..... if states going bankrupt is a "liberal" problem..... that the following states are on the bankrupt list:



North carolina

Indiana

Florida

Texas

South Carolina

Kentucky

Georgia

Nevada

Virginia

Arkansas

Alabama

Tennessee

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/32-states-now-officially-bankrupt-378-billion-borrowed-treasury-fund-unemployment-ca-mi-ny-w

BS. The article quoted is from 05/21/2010. Things have changed. We've had elections and a power shift. I ask for current data. I also request a reputable source.

Copy, paste, copy, paste,.....

Gunnut 45/454
05-15-2012, 20:26
Well since they got the lions share of the 870 Billion dollar theft. To quote the favorite preacher of Obamamoa- "The chickens have come home to roast". The Liberal Progressive utopia is crumbling! Hey didn't they say that legalizing MJ was going to pay the dept off? So much for that one- like I said the Cartels wouldn't let it happen! Why pay $20 for a joint when you can get a OZ for that! Maybe he should just target the Hollyweird elite for the taxes! Old Moonbeam has got to tax, tax them. Bye Bye Komifornia you'll be owned by the illegals! And you deserve everything you get!:wavey::rofl::wavey:

CAcop
05-15-2012, 20:36
Well since they got the lions share of the 870 Billion dollar theft. To quote the favorite preacher of Obamamoa- "The chickens have come home to roast". The Liberal Progressive utopia is crumbling! Hey didn't they say that legalizing MJ was going to pay the dept off? So much for that one- like I said the Cartels wouldn't let it happen! Why pay $20 for a joint when you can get a OZ for that! Maybe he should just target the Hollyweird elite for the taxes! Old Moonbeam has got to tax, tax them. Bye Bye Komifornia you'll be owned by the illegals! And you deserve everything you get!:wavey::rofl::wavey:

The mj prop didn't pass. It lost by a significant margin.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

coastal4974
05-15-2012, 20:53
Florida's recovery picked up steam last year and "all indications" point to even stronger gains this year, according to a statewide economic outlook released Thursday by Wells Fargo Securities.




http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/wells-fargo-floridas-economic-recovery-is-getting-even-stronger-this-year/1229480 (http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdevelopment/wells-fargo-floridas-economic-recovery-is-getting-even-stronger-this-year/1229480)

Allfal
05-15-2012, 21:09
...

There have been a lot of other problems since, but tht single blow sent us over the cliff.

The snowballing debt increase here mirrors national level since we also have a government which contains enough delusional GOP senators who claim all problems can be solved by budget cutting... despite how much they have already cut. They keep financing the budget by selling bonds..... they are stuck because no GOP senator will ever allow a tax increase. And our budget can't be balanced through cuts alone.

Facts are stubborn things, so I strongly recommend you avoid them at all cost if you wish to safeguard your "view" of the world.

It's all Obama's fault...... just keep chanting that until you feel better.

I partialy agre with this. Although Ca.'s problems are fixable, they may require some tax hikes. Cut spending to the bone, put ironclad sunset clauses onto any tax increase that requires a super majority to overide and you may be suprised at the republicans that would sign on to it. Add a decrease in regulation and you have a sure winner. Decreased regulation, open up a little of your off shore oil leases, temp tax increases with no way to extend without a super majority, throw in permitting some nuclear plants and Ca. would be an economic force to be reckoned with in 10 years, instead of the poster boy for socialist failure in the U.S.

CAcop
05-15-2012, 21:21
I know what their function is. I don't understand how Cal. thinks they can support them with medical, assisted housing, welfare, etc. and have it not affect their economy. Then charge its citizens with the burden of paying for it. Then regulate and restrict the legal residents to the point that they move to other states.

I'm not saying that is the only problem there, and yes, the governors have all been loose with the purse strings without a way to pay for it.

Split the state into at least two states.

I think we are effectively paying more taxes to subsidize farm labor so we can get produce cheaper.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

c01
05-15-2012, 21:40
Thanks for proving what I posted with your monochromatic programmed responses. "Liberals are the problem"..... sure, except they elected a GOP governor and he ran the state into deep bankruptcy.

And explain for the class, if "liberals are the problem", why is it so many redneck states are also bankrupt?

The bottom line is that kali is a state yoked with a heavy burden at all times (we probably support and carry 15 million illegals and their families on any given day) and during good times, we could afford it. Not any more. We also have one of the highest unemployment rates and have been hit worst by the real estate bubble bursting.

But again.... avoid facts, they are complicated. Simple minds can only feel comfortable with simple concepts so just keep saying the one you like best: liberals are the problem

I am not liberal nor a redneck.

Allfal
05-15-2012, 21:46
I think we are effectively paying more taxes to subsidize farm labor so we can get produce cheaper.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I have read the same thing. I would rather eliminate benefits for illegals and pay more for my produce. That should be accompanied by a decrease in tax's since the state would be spending less. The problem occurs when imported produce becomes so much cheaper due to labor costs severely undercutting domestic production, driving them out of business I don't have a solution for that but I'm certain someone smarter than me does.

CAcop
05-15-2012, 22:41
I have read the same thing. I would rather eliminate benefits for illegals and pay more for my produce. That should be accompanied by a decrease in tax's since the state would be spending less. The problem occurs when imported produce becomes so much cheaper due to labor costs severely undercutting domestic production, driving them out of business I don't have a solution for that but I'm certain someone smarter than me does.

I think ags days in CA are numbered. I see more and more "grown in mexico" stickers in the produce aisle.

engineer151515
05-16-2012, 08:58
Cali deregulated its energy market. Enron was doing the price fixing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis


GEE..... if we hadn't been robbed of $40 BILLION...... I guess we wouldn't have the $16B deficit we now have?

math is simple too....

Enron (and others) were enabled to run their scam by California Democrats fixing the cost of electricity - electrical power being directly impacted by natural gas prices - back in 1998.

The entire "feel good" legislation left mega-giant and once profitable PG&E with fixed revenues against variable natural gas supply prices (mostly out of state) and drove them into bankruptcy.

engineer151515
05-16-2012, 08:59
I think ags days in CA are numbered. I see more and more "grown in mexico" stickers in the produce aisle.

I look forward to the day you change your screen name to ALcop

:)

Cavalry Doc
05-16-2012, 10:09
Here it goes again. Liberal nonsense.

Obama plant.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 203

Same vitriolic attitude.

1200feathers = Alizard.

evlbruce
05-16-2012, 10:48
Same vitriolic attitude.

1200feathers = Alizard.

Feathers didn't bother copy and pasting anything, she herself was the well-spring of argument and sanctimony.

With the exception of Winnie/Civitas/etc. and the guy that's we're not allowed to talk about I don't think that we have that many reoccurring trolls.