Clean and Unclean Foods [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Clean and Unclean Foods


FCoulter
05-13-2012, 08:26
lobsters and crabs scavenge for dead animals on the sea floor. Shellfish such as oysters, clams and mussels similarly consume decaying organic matter that sinks to the sea floor, including sewage.

A common denominator of many of the animals God designates as unclean is that they routinely eat flesh that would sicken or kill human beings. When we eat such animals we partake of a food chain that includes things harmful to people.

As nutritionist David Meinz observes: "Could it be that God, in His wisdom, created certain creatures whose sole purpose is to clean up after the others? Their entire 'calling' may be to act exclusively as the sanitation workers of our ecology. God may simply be telling us that it's better for us believers not to consume the meat of these trash collectors" (Eating by the Book,1999, p. 225).

The following list, based on Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, identifies many of the animals God designates as clean and unclean. The list uses their common names.

*

Clean Animals

Mammals That Chew the Cud and Part the Hoof

Antelope
Bison (buffalo)
Caribou
Cattle (beef, veal)
Deer (venison)
Elk
Gazelle
Giraffe
Goat
Hart
Ibex
Moose
Ox
Reindeer
Sheep (lamb, mutton)

Fish With Fins and Scales

Anchovy
Barracuda
Bass
Black pomfret (or monchong)
Bluefish
Bluegill
Carp
Cod
Crappie
Drum
Flounder

Flounder
Grouper
Grunt
Haddock
Hake
Halibut
Hardhead
Herring (or alewife)
Kingfish
Mackerel(or corbia)
Mahimahi (or dorado, dolphinfish[not to be confused with the mammal dolphin])
Minnow
Mullet
Perch (or bream)
Pike (or pickerel or jack)
Pollack (or pollock or Boston bluefish)
Rockfish
Salmon
Sardine (or pilchard)
Shad
Silver hake (or whiting)
Smelt (or frost fish or ice fish)
Snapper (or ebu, jobfish, lehi, onaga, opakapaka or uku)
Sole
Steelhead
Sucker
Sunfish

Tarpon
Trout (or weakfish)
Tuna (or ahi, aku, albacore, bonito
or tombo)
Turbot (except European turbot)
Whitefish

Birds With Clean Characteristics

Chicken
Dove
Duck
Goose
Grouse
Guinea fowl
Partridge
Peafowl
Pheasant
Pigeon
Prairie chicken
Ptarmigan
Quail
Sagehen
Sparr


Teal
Turkey

Insects

Types of locusts that may include crickets and grasshoppers

*

Unclean Animals
Animals With Unclean Characteristics

Swine
Boar
Peccary
Pig (hog, bacon, ham, lard, pork, most sausage and pepperoni)

Canines
Coyote
Dog
Fox
Hyena
Jackal
Wolf

Felines
Cat


Cheetah
Leopard
Lion
Panther
Tiger

Equines
Donkey (ass)
Horse
Mule
Onager
Zebra (quagga)

Other
Armadillo
Badger
Bat
Bear
Beaver
Camel
Elephant
Gorilla
Groundhog
Hippopotamus
Kangaroo
Llama (alpaca, vicuña)
Mole
Monkey
Mouse

Muskrat
Opossum
Porcupine
Rabbit (hare)
Raccoon
Rat
Rhinoceros
Skunk
Slug
Snail (escargot)
Squirrel
Wallaby
Weasel
Wolverine
Worm
All insects except some in the locust family

Marine Animals Without Fins and Scales

Fish
Bullhead
Catfish
Eel
European Turbot
Marlin
Paddlefish

Shark
Stickleback
Squid
Sturgeon (includes most caviar)
Swordfish

Shellfish
Abalone
Clam
Conch
Crab
Crayfish (crawfish, crawdad)
Lobster
Mussel
Oyster
Scallop
Shrimp (prawn)

Soft body
Cuttlefish
Jellyfish
Limpet
Octopus
Squid (calamari)

Sea mammals
Dolphin
Otter
Porpoise

Seal
Walrus
Whale

Birds of Prey, Scavengers and Others

Albatross
Bittern
Buzzard
Condor
Coot
Cormorant
Crane
Crow
Cuckoo
Eagle
Flamingo
Grebe
Grosbeak
Gull
Hawk
Heron
Kite
Lapwing
Loon
Magpie
Osprey
Ostrich

Owl
Parrot
Pelican
Penguin
Plover
Rail
Raven
Roadrunner
Sandpiper
Seagull
Stork
Swallow
Swift
Vulture
Water hen
Woodpecker

Reptiles
Alligator
Caiman
Crocodile
Lizard
Snake
Turtle

Amphibians
Blindworm
Frog
Newt

Salamander
Toad

GreenDrake
05-13-2012, 08:31
No swine or crustaceans? Hogwash. I be "eatin' dirty". Bacon is proof pigs love us and want us to be happy.

Geko45
05-13-2012, 08:35
The only rule I have for clean and unclean foods is the Three Second Rule.

:whistling:

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 08:53
The principle upon which we should regulate what we eat is given in the Bible. It is to eat that which will bring glory to God and health to the believer.

I Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Today it is not only the unclean animals that are unfit for food. As sin and greed have increased the whole meat supply is tainted and dangerous.

By feeding animal products to animals that normally are vegetarians disease is spread and increased. By emphasizing production over nutrition plants and animals both become less healthful.

http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=MM&lang=en&collection=2&section=all&pagenumber=274&QUERY=%22milk+and+eggs%22&resultId=1

MEDICAL MINISTRY, PAGE 274
"Let us make intelligent advancement in simplifying our diet. In the providence of God, every country produces articles of food containing the nourishment necessary for the upbuilding of the system. These may be made into healthful, appetizing dishes.
Let those who advocate health reform strive earnestly to make it all that they claim it is. Let them discard everything detrimental to health. Use simple, wholesome food. Fruit is excellent, and saves much cooking. Discard rich pastries, cakes, desserts, and the other dishes prepared to tempt the appetite. Eat fewer kinds of food at one meal, and eat with thanksgiving.
Concerning flesh-meat we can all say, Let it alone. And all should bear a clear testimony against tea and coffee, never using them. They are narcotics, injurious alike to the brain and to the other organs of the body. The time has not yet come when I can say that the use of milk and of eggs should be wholly discontinued. Milk and eggs should not be classed with flesh-meats. In some ailments the use of eggs is very beneficial.
Let the members of our churches deny every selfish appetite. Every penny expended for tea, coffee, and flesh-meat is worse than wasted, for these things hinder the best development of the physical, mental, and spiritual powers.—Letter 135, 1902."

GreenDrake
05-13-2012, 08:58
LOL, seriously?

FCoulter
05-13-2012, 09:01
Vic I agree alot of the food we have now is over processed and thus not healthy,however I have a problem with Ellen White adding to Gods list of UNCLEAN food and saying drinking coffee or tea is sin.

eracer
05-13-2012, 09:04
I don't often laugh at these kinds of threads, since I believe that theology is a valuable tool in our quest for understanding.

But seriously?

:rofl:

FCoulter
05-13-2012, 09:09
I don't often laugh at these kinds of threads, since I believe that theology is a valuable tool in our quest for understanding.

But seriously?

:rofl:

So you question God? Then laugh, :faint:

This list was posted to help people who actually care about themselves,and choose to obey God.

It was not posted so the community atheists can do their usual mocking. One would think even atheist would behave somewhat more civil.

rgregoryb
05-13-2012, 16:19
I don't often laugh at these kinds of threads, since I believe that theology is a valuable tool in our quest for understanding.

But seriously?

:rofl:

kind of lets you peek into the asylum, without having to mingle with the inmates..........

what a crock...............

Kingarthurhk
05-13-2012, 17:12
Here is a current study by the Mayo Clinic:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/meatless-meals/my00752

Now, compare that to the Ministry of Healing posted by Vic, which was published in 1905.

This was back when doctor's used to prescribe cigarettes.

Now, where would an uneducated woman get such material in that environment in 1905 when the Mayo Clinic just echoed what she had to say in their own publication?

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 17:47
Vic I agree alot of the food we have now is over processed and thus not healthy,however I have a problem with Ellen White adding to Gods list of UNCLEAN food and saying drinking coffee or tea is sin.

It would be cruel of me to say that I think you drink a lot of coffee.

We can do brain scans now and the amount of caffeine in one cup of coffee can reduce the blood flow to the brain by 40%

People think that caffeine wakes them up and it may keep them from sleeping, but it certainly does not help them to think clearly.

God wants us to be able to hear that still small voice. If we abuse our body systems with stimulants we are drowning out the voice of God speaking to us.

The principle is not simple obedience to God and stay away from the tabu list which is helpful but only a beginning. It is about glorifying God in our bodies which are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

I Corinthians 6:19 Do ye not know that your body is [the] temple of the Holy Spirit which [is] in you, which ye have of God; and ye are not your own?
6:20 for ye have been bought with a price: glorify now then God in your body.

GRIMLET
05-13-2012, 18:01
Ok, lets think a moment. When the Bible was formed/ created, were the species mentioned even discovered?
Chris Rock has it right. He did a thing discussing how eating certain foods 2000 years ago could kill you. Now we have RE-FRIG-ER-ATION.
The Bible was just trying to stop people from killing themselves with food poisioning.
And I still think the list is bs. Several creatures were not known to them then. And don't say, "Oh, the description of the creature fit in the Bibles meaning.

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 18:18
Ok, lets think a moment. When the Bible was formed/ created, were the species mentioned even discovered?
Chris Rock has it right. He did a thing discussing how eating certain foods 2000 years ago could kill you. Now we have RE-FRIDG-ER-ATION.
The Bible was just trying to stop people from killing themselves with food poisioning.
And I still think the list is bs. Several creatures were not known to them then. And don't say, "Oh, the description of the creature fit in the Bibles meaning.

Grimlet

Do you suppose that refrigeration will stop mad cow disease? Do you suppose cooking it thoroughly will kill mad cow disease? BTW pigs carry it too. It takes more than 600 degrees to kill mad cow and then all you have is charcoal.

Do you suppose mad cow disease is rare in the USA?

Guess again. It is much more prevalent than you think. Tens of thousands of people are dying from it every year.

Interview - Colm Kelleher - Mad Cow and Misdiagnosed Alzheimer's Disease - YouTube

mike from st pe
05-13-2012, 18:42
Do you suppose that refrigeration will stop mad cow disease? Do you suppose cooking it thoroughly will kill mad cow disease? BTW pigs carry it too. It takes more than 600 degrees to kill mad cow and then all you have is charcoal.

Along with Elks and a bunch of other "cud chewing" bovines suffer from the prion that causes "MAD COW".
Known as SCRAPIE, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrapie.
:wavey:

GRIMLET
05-13-2012, 21:19
Gentlemen, to my knowledge, mad cow disease is caused by cannibalism. Mainly using ground remains of a species as food for the same species. Is it not a man made disease? I don't recall hearing of it before the '70's. The cannibal tribes of the South Pacific suffered from this I believe. I may be wrong so please correct me if so.
I think y'all miss the point. Its not just refrigeration. The leaders back in their time used the written word to protect their uneducated brethern with Bible verses to save their lives. I don't fault them for their intent but the times have changed and we understand things better now and don't need threats when we have evolved education.

muscogee
05-13-2012, 21:22
Why would God care what I eat?

4TS&W
05-13-2012, 21:26
I loves me some bacon.

"Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Bacon." -Homer Simpson

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 22:50
Gentlemen, to my knowledge, mad cow disease is caused by cannibalism. Mainly using ground remains of a species as food for the same species. Is it not a man made disease? I don't recall hearing of it before the '70's. The cannibal tribes of the South Pacific suffered from this I believe. I may be wrong so please correct me if so.


One theory is that this nervous system disease was brought back from the South Pacific by researchers who were investigating this disease that affected cannibals. The cannibals thought that by cutting themselves and rubbing the brains of their victims into the skin of their arms they could get some of the strength of their victims. This was an even better route of contagion than eating the brains.

Since there was neither bacteria or virus in the samples researchers did not find the cause of transmission and of course these prions are not destroyed by normal sterilization temperatures. All it would take is for some to get on the ground and be picked up by a cow or goat and the infection was in the US and Britain. The incubation period before symptoms appear in humans is like 10 to 40 years. Once the symptoms appear death ensues in a few months.

Most cattle are slaughtered at about three years before the symptoms appear. For each cow they find with mad cow disease there are probably 200 that get into the food chain because they use random sampling. I don't think they test pigs at all.

GRIMLET
05-13-2012, 23:14
Thanks for that information. Very interesting.
I am very skeptical of mass produced food.
Hormones, steroid, insecticides and antibiotics are a huge poison to our food supply.

Smacktard
05-13-2012, 23:15
God or bacon? Give me bacon!


...

Vic Hays
05-13-2012, 23:51
Why would God care what I eat?

God cares about you. He wants you to be healthy and have a good quality of life.

Psalm 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 03:22
Why would God care what I eat?

Because He designed you. Do you think an engine designer know what makes his engine run its best?

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 03:31
Ok, lets think a moment. When the Bible was formed/ created, were the species mentioned even discovered?
Chris Rock has it right. He did a thing discussing how eating certain foods 2000 years ago could kill you. Now we have RE-FRIG-ER-ATION.
The Bible was just trying to stop people from killing themselves with food poisioning.
And I still think the list is bs. Several creatures were not known to them then. And don't say, "Oh, the description of the creature fit in the Bibles meaning.

God created every species. So how cold you think the ones mentioned were not here since man?

As far as keeping food cool or proper cooking of food,you really need to study up some. They have found oven that could heat up to 800-900 degrees for cooking thousands of yrs old.

Also most of the unclean animals are scavengers. Could it be God created certain animals to be a cleanup crew? Do you think it really is healthy to eat anything that eats only what has already died for who knows what reason?

Look at it this way, the Bible teaches us that just as it was in the days of Noah, it shall be before Jesus returns. Who knows how advanced man was prior to the flood! I bet it would shock most to see what lies at the bottom of the oceans.

Now that list I posted that you dislike so well. It is for people today using what Guidelines God laid out in the Bible. :wavey:

GreenDrake
05-14-2012, 06:11
Your god didn't write the bible. Therein lies the logical conundrum of what believers follow. They have faith that what they are told is the truth, that Noah lived to be 950 years old, that the flood actually happened and that they were designed by a god....the same god that designed cancer I guess. The same god that created sickness, disease, mental illness and a host of other negatives in life. But then you never see him getting credit for the bad things, that's all satan's work, he only gets credit when the sun is shining and unicorns and dolphins ride rainbows through the sky.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 06:42
Your god didn't write the bible. Therein lies the logical conundrum of what believers follow. They have faith that what they are told is the truth, that Noah lived to be 950 years old, that the flood actually happened and that they were designed by a god....the same god that designed cancer I guess. The same god that created sickness, disease, mental illness and a host of other negatives in life. But then you never see him getting credit for the bad things, that's all satan's work, he only gets credit when the sun is shining and unicorns and dolphins ride rainbows through the sky.

I suggest you read this, I am sure it will answer every question you posted.

http://www.ucg.org/files/booklets/why-does-god-allow-suffering.pdf

muscogee
05-14-2012, 07:09
God cares about you. He wants you to be healthy and have a good quality of life.


Why? If believers are just passing through this life on the way to a better one, why impede the journey?

muscogee
05-14-2012, 07:15
Because He designed you. Do you think an engine designer know what makes his engine run its best?

Why didn't he design it so my health wouldn't be adversely affected by what I eat? Why didn't he design it so people don't get cancer, heart disease, and all the other maladies we're subject to?

GRIMLET
05-14-2012, 07:36
God created every species. So how cold you think the ones mentioned were not here since man?

I didn think the early Christians knew about all the species on the list. Penguins?

As far as keeping food cool or proper cooking of food,you really need to study up some. They have found oven that could heat up to 800-900 degrees for cooking thousands of yrs old.

I was talking about a rant Chris Rock was on. It was meant to show improvement in food technology.
Residental refrigeration is not used to sterilize but to slow decay.

Also most of the unclean animals are scavengers. Could it be God created certain animals to be a cleanup crew? Do you think it really is healthy to eat anything that eats only what has already died for who knows what reason?

No, God didn't create anything. I do see there are scavenger species.
I eat crabs, crawfish and shark if it is cooked correctly. Shrimp and oysters are also part of my diet. Wild caught food is infintlely better than pen raised/caged food.
The things coropotations do to our food should be criminal.

Now that list I posted that you dislike so well. It is for people today using what Guidelines God laid out in the Bible
. :wavey

It is the reason for the list we disagree. That's ok. You do your thing and I will do mine.
Probably going for a few pounds of crawfish for lunch today.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 08:00
Why didn't he design it so my health wouldn't be adversely affected by what I eat? Why didn't he design it so people don't get cancer, heart disease, and all the other maladies we're subject to?

He gave man free will, if you actually follow Gods commands and health system most of what you mentioned can be at a minimum. Because of sin though it it appointed for every man to die ONCE. If you lived Gods way that one time will be your last death.

Vic Hays
05-14-2012, 08:16
Why didn't he design it so my health wouldn't be adversely affected by what I eat? Why didn't he design it so people don't get cancer, heart disease, and all the other maladies we're subject to?

God did all that when He created man in the first place. The original diet was to keep man disease free. It will heal many of the maladies that you mentioned without medical intervention.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

In God's kingdom we will also be able to eat again of the Tree of Life which gives immortality and healing.

Revelation 22:2 In the middle of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bore twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

GreenDrake
05-14-2012, 08:25
Cuckoo for coconuts. Therein lies the age old assurance that if you just followed the rules, there would be no disease. Or better, "I don't know, so it is god's plan".

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 08:47
Cuckoo for coconuts. Therein lies the age old assurance that if you just followed the rules, there would be no disease. Or better, "I don't know, so it is god's plan".

What is cuckoo is that a christain topic can not be started without the local peanut gallery (atheists) jumping in. I am willing to bet if you guys go off start a sub forum for atheists you wont be treated the same as you do here.

eracer
05-14-2012, 09:23
So you question God? Then laugh, :faint:

This list was posted to help people who actually care about themselves,and choose to obey God.

It was not posted so the community atheists can do their usual mocking. One would think even atheist would behave somewhat more civil.Sorry, but I said I appreciate theological discussion threads.

You posted a list that some people long ago made up, and more people over the years who thought they knew God's will decided to modify.

BTW - I'm not an atheist. But I do laugh at all the proscriptions that Man (in his infinite wisdom) assigns to God.

GreenDrake
05-14-2012, 09:43
Coulter, sorry if your feelings get hurt in the forum because people do not see things your way, I thought atheism WAS a religion though. I find theological conviction to be fascinating in how people are required to believe in something so far from reality with no factual representation of verifiable data, I cannot help jumping in from my proverbial peanut gallery.

Roering
05-14-2012, 09:54
Chicken should be cooked thoroughly and any surfaces or utensils that come in contact with raw poultry should be washed thoroughly. Shellfish should be thoroughly cleaned and appropriately cooked prior to consumption.

Given today's diet for pigs today as regulated by our government pork products are very clean and many have found that they do not even need to be cooked to the temperatures previously prescribed by the FDA. The FDA has yet to change their recommendation though.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 10:04
Chicken should be cooked thoroughly and any surfaces or utensils that come in contact with raw poultry should be washed thoroughly. Shellfish should be thoroughly cleaned and appropriately cooked prior to consumption.

Given today's diet for pigs today as regulated by our government pork products are very clean and many have found that they do not even need to be cooked to the temperatures previously prescribed by the FDA. The FDA has yet to change their recommendation though.

So you use the FDA as your guideline and reject Gods instructions on these foods?

Woofie
05-14-2012, 10:11
It would be cruel of me to say that I think you drink a lot of coffee.

We can do brain scans now and the amount of caffeine in one cup of coffee can reduce the blood flow to the brain by 40%

People think that caffeine wakes them up and it may keep them from sleeping, but it certainly does not help them to think clearly.

God wants us to be able to hear that still small voice. If we abuse our body systems with stimulants we are drowning out the voice of God speaking to us.

The principle is not simple obedience to God and stay away from the tabu list which is helpful but only a beginning. It is about glorifying God in our bodies which are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

I Corinthians 6:19 Do ye not know that your body is [the] temple of the Holy Spirit which [is] in you, which ye have of God; and ye are not your own?
6:20 for ye have been bought with a price: glorify now then God in your body.

You have a source for this info?

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/coffee-new-health-food?page=2

Drinking coffee is linked to lower rates of diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and dementia.

Roering
05-14-2012, 10:15
You have a source for this info?

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/coffee-new-health-food?page=2

Drinking coffee is linked to lower rates of diabetes, cancer, deart disease, and dementia.

So a cup a day (my standard) may be beneficial?

GreenDrake
05-14-2012, 10:16
Pork should be done to 145 and is for the most part safe at that temp. Chicken scares me more, 165 min IT and yes, wash EVERYTHING it comes in contact with. Did god specify internal temperatures for these proteins? Just curious if he has a cookbook out yet.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 10:23
So a cup a day (my standard) may be beneficial?

Very possible. The article says that causality hasn't yet been determined, but there i a very strong correlation between coffee drinkers and the stuff (scientific term) I listed.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 10:30
I enjoy a couple cups of coffee a day, not really a tea drinker but I have read of many benefits to drinking certain teas.

My problem as I stated with Vic was I didn't agree with Ellen White adding to Gods dietary laws and saying drinking coffee and tea is a sin.

A sin by Bible def. is the breaking of Gods commands. God never mentions coffee or tea, which has been around since forever as being unclean.

Roering
05-14-2012, 10:41
I enjoy a couple cups of coffee a day, not really a tea drinker but I have read of many benefits to drinking certain teas.

My problem as I stated with Vic was I didn't agree with Ellen White adding to Gods dietary laws and saying drinking coffee and tea is a sin.

A sin by Bible def. is the breaking of Gods commands. God never mentions coffee or tea, which has been around since forever as being unclean.

FCoulter,

Do you follow all of God's laws in the OT?

Roering
05-14-2012, 10:46
Pork should be done to 145 and is for the most part safe at that temp. Chicken scares me more, 165 min IT and yes, wash EVERYTHING it comes in contact with. Did god specify internal temperatures for these proteins? Just curious if he has a cookbook out yet.

Pork is an interesting subject when considering "cleanliness". Pigs used to serve as living trash cans eating everything that people threw out. Now their diet is clean as cattle and as such they have become a lot safer to eat.

I'm not so sure I would chance to eat pork if I lived back then.

Roering
05-14-2012, 10:55
So you use the FDA as your guideline and reject Gods instructions on these foods?

Those are not God's instructions to me. Those were God's instructions to a different people at a very different time under a different covenant.

As for a Christian today we have this.....

"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."
-Mark

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 11:07
Those are not God's instructions to me. Those were God's instructions to a different people at a very different time under a different covenant.

As for a Christian today we have this.....

"There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."
-Mark

Would you like to discuss what is really being said in the verse you quoted from Mark? Clean or unclean food is not the topic.

Also do you think man changed so that food that was unclean to Israel is not unclean to you?

If you believe this, then you sir should jump into the evolutionists corner. God never changes.

And yes I obey ALL Gods commands or every Word of God to the best of my obility.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 11:41
Would you like to discuss what is really being said in the verse you quoted from Mark? Clean or unclean food is not the topic.

Also do you think man changed so that food that was unclean to Israel is not unclean to you?

If you believe this, then you sir should jump into the evolutionists corner. God never changes.

And yes I obey ALL Gods commands or every Word of God to the best of my obility.

So you believe rape victims should be stoned to death?

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 11:48
So you believe rape victims should be stoned to death?

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/judge_righteous_judgment_092006.pdf

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/Transcripts/Gods-Justice-Sys_Redemeer-Blood-Avenger_Mike-Heiss_10-19-11.pdf

Here is very good video answering your questions.

http://www.churchathome.org/video/gods-criminal-justice-system-pt1.html

http://www.churchathome.org/video/gods-criminal-justice-system-pt2.html

Woofie
05-14-2012, 12:04
http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/judge_righteous_judgment_092006.pdf

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/Transcripts/Gods-Justice-Sys_Redemeer-Blood-Avenger_Mike-Heiss_10-19-11.pdf

Here is very good video answering your questions.

http://www.churchathome.org/video/gods-criminal-justice-system-pt1.html

http://www.churchathome.org/video/gods-criminal-justice-system-pt2.html

I'm not interested in what churchathome.org believes. Do you, FCoulter, believe rape victims should be stoned to death? It should be a yes or no answer.

I, for one, do not believe that rape victims should be stoned to death.

eracer
05-14-2012, 12:14
Pork should be done to 145 and is for the most part safe at that temp. Chicken scares me more, 165 min IT and yes, wash EVERYTHING it comes in contact with. Did god specify internal temperatures for these proteins? Just curious if he has a cookbook out yet.

http://jimmyprophet.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/toserveman-book.jpg

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 12:15
I'm not interested in what churchathome.org believes. Do you, FCoulter, believe rape victims should be stoned to death? It should be a yes or no answer.

I, for one, do not believe that rape victims should be stoned to death.

It doesnt matter what you or I believe. It matters what God commands. If you want an answer on how I feel, read what I posted.

Roering
05-14-2012, 12:17
Would you like to discuss what is really being said in the verse you quoted from Mark? Clean or unclean food is not the topic.

Also do you think man changed so that food that was unclean to Israel is not unclean to you?

If you believe this, then you sir should jump into the evolutionists corner. God never changes.

And yes I obey ALL Gods commands or every Word of God to the best of my obility.

Where do you practice your animal sacrifices?

Also, I assume you made sure to marry a Jewish woman as prescribed in Deuteronomy 7. Cause you know, you obey "ALL Gods commands to the best of your ability".

And of course, I'm sure you never eat a meal of both milk products and meat. No cheeseburgers right?

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 12:23
Where do you practice your animal sacrifices?

Do you realize how silly that question is?

If you know that little about Gods word we will have to start with very warm milk.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 12:24
It doesnt matter what you or I believe. It matters what God commands. If you want an answer on how I feel, read what I posted.

Just so we're clear, you believe that rape victims should be executed.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 12:37
Just so we're clear, you believe that rape victims should be executed.

I obey Gods commands, you dont understand the command and wont read what God says on it, instead it is easier to try and stir a pot when you dont even have a spoon.

Roering
05-14-2012, 12:54
Do you realize how silly that question is?

I realize how silly your statement is. But I'll continue to make the point.

Do you have the correct number of tassels sewn onto all of your cloaks?

Do you make sure that the bread you eat was not from new grain before the Omer?

Do you buy your fruit at a market? If so how do you make sure that it was not harvested from a tree during it's first three years?

I suspect you do not obey these laws at all nor make an attempt to.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 13:04
I realize how silly your statement is. But I'll continue to make the point.

Do you have the correct number of tassels sewn onto all of your cloaks?

Do you make sure that the bread you eat was not from new grain before the Omer?

Do you buy your fruit at a market? If so how do you make sure that it was not harvested from a tree during it's first three years?

I suspect you do not obey these laws at all nor make an attempt to.

I see you really do need milk. Read or watch what I posted and then you will realize much work is needed for you to understand God and His teachings. You have been following babel to long.

Roering
05-14-2012, 13:10
I see you really do need milk. Read or watch what I posted and then you will realize much work is needed for you to understand God and His teachings. You have been following babel to long.

I'm taking commands from the Old Testament. You said you follow ALL of God's commands.

Which Rabbi do you use to inspect your paschal lamb before you slaughter it?

What is the latest word from the Sanhedrin?

How did you manage to secure a home loan without interest?

Woofie
05-14-2012, 13:13
I obey Gods commands, you dont understand the command and wont read what God says on it, instead it is easier to try and stir a pot when you dont even have a spoon.

22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.

23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.


The command is pretty clear.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 13:16
The command is pretty clear.

If you had read what I posted, tome would not be wasted with useless questions.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 13:20
If you had read what I posted, tome would not be wasted with useless questions.

Perhaps you can point me to the specific time in your hour long video that explains to me why it is ok to execute rape victims.

"Watch the whole thing and look for my justification for me" is not an answer.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 13:27
http://jimmyprophet.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/toserveman-book.jpg

:rofl:

That episode was on the other night.

eracer
05-14-2012, 13:27
Perhaps you can point me to the specific time in your hour long video that explains to me why it is ok to execute rape victims.

"Watch the whole thing and look for my justification for me" is not an answer.Woofie, can you not see that there is no point in continuing this discussion?

FC will never surrender his own private version of God.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 13:28
Woofie, can you not see that there is no point in continuing this discussion?

FC will never surrender his own private version of God.

I'm bored at work. What else can I say?

eracer
05-14-2012, 13:33
I'm bored at work. What else can I say?Fair enough. But at least join a discussion where there is some discourse.

Woofie
05-14-2012, 13:39
I could, but I'm sick of the "Aitheism is a religion" thread.

eracer
05-14-2012, 13:42
I could, but I'm sick of the "Aitheism is a religion" thread.There's a good one going on debating the merits of an AR-15 chambered in 6.8 SPC II, 6.5 Grendel, .300 BLK, and....


Wait for it...

7.62x39

Talk about demonic possession.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 14:14
The command is pretty clear.


Although vv. 25-27 refers to a woman that is betrothed, the point is still clear.Hence, when the woman does not scream this indicates that she willfully chose to engage in the sexual act with the man. This is further seen from vv. 28-29 where both the man and the woman are held accountable, i.e. "and THEY ARE found out." This is unlike the woman of vv. 25-27 who is said to be not guilty.

They were stoned if the girl never cried out hence it wasnt rape but adultry.

If she had cried out rape the rapist would have to pay her father, no stoning as you claim.

Deut.22: 28*If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29*Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.


Now please study before you assume.

Vic Hays
05-14-2012, 14:23
You have a source for this info?

http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/coffee-new-health-food?page=2

Drinking coffee is linked to lower rates of diabetes, cancer, heart disease, and dementia.


http://current.com/shows/vanguard/76310262_a-brain-on-caffeine.htm

http://www.impactlab.net/2009/05/05/pictures-reveal-shocking-effects-alcohol-cigarettes-and-caffeine-on-the-brain/

Woofie
05-14-2012, 15:12
Although vv. 25-27 refers to a woman that is betrothed, the point is still clear.Hence, when the woman does not scream this indicates that she willfully chose to engage in the sexual act with the man. This is further seen from vv. 28-29 where both the man and the woman are held accountable, i.e. "and THEY ARE found out." This is unlike the woman of vv. 25-27 who is said to be not guilty.

They were stoned if the girl never cried out hence it wasnt rape but adultry.

If she had cried out rape the rapist would have to pay her father, no stoning as you claim.

Deut.22: 28*If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29*Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.


Now please study before you assume.

You can think of no way a woman being raped could be stopped from screaming? Quit lying to yourself.

The next verse goes on to say
But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

This clears up any contextual issues over whether 23 and 24 were about rape or adultery.

FCoulter
05-14-2012, 15:45
You can think of no way a woman being raped could be stopped from screaming? Quit lying to yourself.

The next verse goes on to say


This clears up any contextual issues over whether 23 and 24 were about rape or adultery.

Yes it clears it up to you who isnt reading it all. You quoted versse 25 and ignored verse 26.

25* ¶ But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her; then the man only that lay with her shall die:
26* but unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

Woofie
05-14-2012, 19:05
Yes it clears it up to you who isnt reading it all. You quoted versse 25 and ignored verse 26.

25* ¶ But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her; then the man only that lay with her shall die:
26* but unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

Which further supports that the passages are about rape, not adultery.

rgregoryb
05-14-2012, 19:52
Shrimp on the barby anyone?

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/taz/taz0809/taz080900005/3563304-grilled-prawns-on-the-barbecue-rack-at-the-garden-party.jpg

Foxterriermom
05-14-2012, 21:46
Just because you can eat something doesn't mean you should or that it is meant to be be eaten. Take this, for example - http://www.dailytech.com/Japanese+Make+Delicious+Nourishing+Steaks+From+Human+Feces/article21932.htm Yet, there may come a time in world history where generations of people consider it completely acceptable and totally within the norm to eat this product as "food". Think of the things in the American diet that would never have existed 2000 years ago or have been considered food.

If one does not claim to follow the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, then the thought of biblically clean and unclean foods is just not part of ones everyday thinking when it comes to food selection. Because I follow YHWH, I choose to be obedient to His food laws. I don't believe He is trying to save me from something that needed to be cooked properly or needed refrigeration or whatever in order to be "safe" to eat, but rather He is pointing out that the animals on the "do not eat" list were never intended as food to begin with.

If you don't believe that or follow Him, I fully understand that you don't have any problem eating whatever you want. I can tell you this however, when I committed to keeping a bibically clean diet almost four years ago, I stopped having body odor and bad breath issues. I believe the impurities in my system from unclean foods is what caused these symptoms (most specifically from the pork I had been eating). Had I not experienced this myself, I would most likely never have believed it from the word of anyone else. It was a direct confirmation to me that YHWH knew what He was doing when He instituted the dietary laws.

Vic Hays
05-14-2012, 22:45
If you don't believe that or follow Him, I fully understand that you don't have any problem eating whatever you want. I can tell you this however, when I committed to keeping a bibically clean diet almost four years ago, I stopped having body odor and bad breath issues. I believe the impurities in my system from unclean foods is what caused these symptoms (most specifically from the pork I had been eating). Had I not experienced this myself, I would most likely never have believed it from the word of anyone else. It was a direct confirmation to me that YHWH knew what He was doing when He instituted the dietary laws.

I watched a video lately called Fat Sick and Nearly Dead. This Australian was touring the US and interviewing people about their diet. Most of them didn't want to change even if they died young. think that means most people really don't have much to live or hope for.

It is really good if you want to see what can be accomplished by juicing.

Hulu - Fat, Sick & Nearly Dead - Watch the full movie now.@@AMEPARAM@@http://www.hulu.com/embed/GDauqN1yS1-kSS-mQF2Ipw@@AMEPARAM@@GDauqN1yS1-kSS-mQF2Ipw

GreenDrake
05-15-2012, 03:52
Vic, personal beliefs aside and no intent to hijack this thread...but I am absolutely with you on the juicing thing. Another great movie is Forks Over Knives. I have had great success in the last three months, starting with a 30 day juice fast, then juice for breakfast and lunch with moderate dinners. Best thing I have ever done for my health.

Vic Hays
05-15-2012, 08:39
Vic, personal beliefs aside and no intent to hijack this thread...but I am absolutely with you on the juicing thing. Another great movie is Forks Over Knives. I have had great success in the last three months, starting with a 30 day juice fast, then juice for breakfast and lunch with moderate dinners. Best thing I have ever done for my health.

You are not hijacking the thread. If your religion is not good for you why bother.

My God wants the best for me. He wants the quality of my life to be the best it can be.

John 10:10 The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd gives his life for the sheep.

BTW we just had a viewing of Forks Over Knives at our Church and invited the community with a mass mailing. It certainly motivated me to make better choices.

Vic Hays
05-15-2012, 23:05
The Old Testament list of unclean animals is pretty out of date. A lot more things should be added to it.

The standard American diet is making us real sick.

Heart disease, diabetes, arthritis and the auto immune diseases like MS are all diet related.

God had it right in the first place.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Forks Over Knives - Official Trailer - YouTube

GreenDrake
05-16-2012, 05:20
Processed foods and condensed calories are the enemy. Delicious, but the enemy.

Vic Hays
05-16-2012, 17:19
Processed foods and condensed calories are the enemy. Delicious, but the enemy.

They didn't have so much in the way of processed foods in Old Testament days.

The list of clean and unclean foods plus hygiene rules was to protect against a list of diseases. Many of these diseases are prevalent today.

Deuteronomy 28:27 The LORD will smite you with the botch of Egypt, and with the tumors, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof you can not be healed.
28:28 The LORD shall smite you with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:
28:29 And you shall grope at noonday, as the blind gropes in darkness, and you shall not prosper in your ways: and you shall be only oppressed and spoiled ever more, and no man shall save you.

It is really so easy to avoid them by following the principles.

Exodus 15:26 And said, If you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in his sight, and will give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases on you, which I have brought on the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you.

Brasso
05-16-2012, 17:30
When you finally understand that this world is a shadow and that everything is the result of a spiritual reality, you will understand the reason for the Torah. You cannot separate the two. What happens in one affects the other.

We don't eat unclean things because He said not to. Period.

We follow His commandments because He said to. Period.

To disregard them is to curse yourself in ways you can't even see.

FCoulter
05-16-2012, 18:17
When you finally understand that this world is a shadow and that everything is the result of a spiritual reality, you will understand the reason for the Torah. You cannot separate the two. What happens in one affects the other.

We don't eat unclean things because He said not to. Period.

We follow His commandments because He said to. Period.

To disregard them is to curse yourself in ways you can't even see.

I agree Amen

GreenDrake
05-16-2012, 19:07
I eat everything, just a healthier everything now. What a manufactured deity supposedly said through intermediaries has no bearing on my palate. That being said, tonight is cajun rock fish night. Woooooo.

Cavalry Doc
05-16-2012, 19:09
I try only to eat clean foods. They make these vegetable brushes and potato gloves that make the job of cleaning them much easier.

Kingarthurhk
05-17-2012, 17:03
Let's see. My day consisted of a bananna, granola, corn on the cob and salmon. Tonight is steam brocoli and noodles. Not a bad day I would say.

rgregoryb
05-17-2012, 19:19
couple of beers, now a big old glass of wine.......liquid diet

Cavalry Doc
05-17-2012, 19:45
Let's see. My day consisted of a bananna, granola, corn on the cob and salmon. Tonight is steam brocoli and noodles. Not a bad day I would say.

Fork that. Kobe beef, medium rare, on the grill, brown rice slightly seasoned, and vegetable kabobs. And a nice glass of a Texas red wine. Mmmmmmmm.

Kingarthurhk
05-17-2012, 19:50
couple of beers, now a big old glass of wine.......liquid diet

Every drunk knows you aren't supposed to mix.

rgregoryb
05-17-2012, 20:01
Every drunk knows you aren't supposed to mix.

that's because I'm not a drunk. I only drink high quality stuff ,no swilling involved.

rgregoryb
05-17-2012, 20:04
didn't Jesus drink wine?

Kingarthurhk
05-17-2012, 20:05
that's because I'm not a drunk. I only drink high quality stuff ,no swilling involved.

Mixing beer wine and or liqour all in the same evening a recipe for a stellar hang over.

Sarge1400
05-17-2012, 20:06
Fork that. Kobe beef, medium rare, on the grill, brown rice slightly seasoned, and vegetable kabobs. And a nice glass of a Texas red wine. Mmmmmmmm.

Substitute a nice Prime ribeye cut (Kobe is overrated and overpriced (that applies to Bryant as well)), and a Porter instead of wine, and it could almost be a religion.

Cavalry Doc
05-17-2012, 20:18
Had Kobe for the first time last night. Not so bad. It was Texas Kobe though.

FCoulter
05-18-2012, 05:52
Had Kobe for the first time last night. Not so bad. It was Texas Kobe though.

There is no Texas Kobe beef. You were coned.

GreenDrake
05-18-2012, 08:12
There are several cross breeds of the kobe strain. I like Snake River Farms' kobe/black angus Wagyu because of the sheer size of the brisket those monsters produce. Their black label ribeye ain't cheap though, over $30 a pound cost, before consumers see the price jack.