10mm & TightGroup- also 800x and metering [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Adamg_55
05-13-2012, 19:15
Hey guys,
Im still relatively new to the 10mm world and haven't gone nuclear yet, still playing around above normal .40 but still below full 10mm potential.

I got a great deal by jumping in on a bulk purchase and I've got a jug of tightgroup. Ive got the lyman manual and I use the Hodgdon Reloading Data as well, but it says 5.4-6gr and my lyman manual doesn't list tight group as an option for 180gr bullets. It lists it for the 160 and 170 gr, but not 180.

So my question is:

How is tight group as a 10mm powder?
Anyone have any good data for it using 180 gr bullets?
Im looking for a medium to hot load. I use it for IDPA and would like to practice with a solid performing round.

Also I got a jug of 800x, but I am having a really hard time running it through my hornady lock and load powder activated case measure, and I'm running a progressive press so i really don't wanna hand weigh all of them.

Are there any tips out there that would help getting my powder measure to meter it decent? Would i be better off using the rifle graduator?


Specs of my gun:
Glock 20
IGB stock length barrel
22-24 lb recoil spring
recoil buffer
brand new Starline brass
180gr JHP Zero Projectiles

WeeWilly
05-13-2012, 19:50
Titegroup is too fast for moving a 180gr bullet in real mid to high 10mm velocities. The good news is you can probably make Major with less Titegroup than Hodgdon's start load level for 180gr jacketed in 10mm.

If you go with the 5.4gr start level, you should be well past Major PF.

You can put the stock recoil spring back in and take the buff out as well.

I cannot get 800x meter in my Dillon press, so I don't use it.

I am kind of a beginner 10mm guy as well, so hopefully some others will chime in as well.

Adamg_55
05-13-2012, 19:55
Im still new to this, what do you mean too fast?

Meathead9
05-13-2012, 19:56
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Titegroup won't give you medium/hot loads in 10mm. Even at Hodgdon's 6gr listed max, you're only going to get around 1150fps with a 180gr bullet. Titegroup is a very fast burning powder, and takes up very little case volume, so it can be dangerous if you don't pay close attention. I have used it in 9mm, but have since switched to WSF for those loads. It can still give you very accurate, light target loads in 10mm though. If you want Med/Hot 10mm loads, with a powder that meters well, I'd get some Longshot, Blue Dot, Power Pistol, AA7 or AA9. 800X has great performance in 10mm, but does not meter well.


.

WeeWilly
05-13-2012, 20:00
Im still new to this, what do you mean too fast?

I mean it burns too fast. You can Google "Powder burn rate" and one of the first few hits will be a Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart, click the link and you can see the relative burn rates of various powders.

As you move up in bullet weights, it takes slower powders to get them up to higher velocities. Faster powders will get to max pressures too soon.

I see Meathead9 covered the subject well before me. Most guys load faster powder than are optimal (ballistically speaking) when shooting competition as it will deliver target performance (lower velocity and recoil), while still providing enough snap to cycle the gun reliably. Titegroup should work well for your IDPA needs. I just wouldn't hunt anything that snorts with it.

Meathead9
05-13-2012, 20:03
Also, since it's not .45 (CDP class), you will only need to meet Minor PF (SSP/ESP class). Minor PF = 125,000, Major PF is 165,000. Take the bullet weight, multiply by the velocity, and you have your power factor. You only need 695fps to make Minor with a 180gr bullet, but most guys run them at around 750fps. Of course those are "gamer" loads, and that may not be your intent.

Hodgdon's website shows a load range from 5.4gr (1051fps) to 6.0gr (1141fps) for 180gr bullets. You should get a pretty good IDPA load at 5.4gr, but you still have to be extra cautious about over/double charges. For IDPA shooting, Titegroup will still be a decent powder. That load will probably function with the 20+lb recoil spring, but the cycling will be very slow. I loaded up some 180gr bullets to 950fps in my 6" G20LS (22# ISMI spring and HEAVY A** Longslide). They functioned, but like I said, the cycling was sloooooooow. I'd switch back to the stock barrel and recoil spring if I were you. You may even consider getting a 15# recoil spring setup, which is what I'm using in my USPSA Limited G20SF for 40 Major.

.

Meathead9
05-13-2012, 20:40
I just wouldn't hunt anything that snorts with it.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

_The_Shadow
05-13-2012, 20:59
Adamg 55,:welcome: to the forum! Meathead9 offers some great advise and sugestions. There is much to read about in this entire 10mm reloading section. Take some time to read what has been done by others, take notes and observations about the guns and setups being used.

I have also used all of the powders he mentioned with good results, any change in componets can effect the performance, pressure. Be safe!
Best regards, enjoy 10mm and the forum!

TDC20
05-14-2012, 21:10
Hey Adamg_55, and welcome!

I don't have much to add to the good advice that has already been posted, but I thought you might like to take a look at what happened when someone tried to push a TightGroup load a little too far.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1332131

Some things in life are not meant to go together, and I believe one of them is Tight Group and 10mm. If you want a high performance 10mm powder that meters well enough for your progressive press, try Long Shot. It loads well in all bullet weights for 10mm. AA#9 is also a great powder for 180 gr bullets and probably meters the best of any of the good 10mm powders.

IMO, 800-X is THE best high performance 10mm powder, and one of my favorites, but I won't load it without weighing every charge.

I still advise weighing every charge for all hot loads with any powder, but I would trust thrown charges of Long Shot or AA#9 for medium warm loads.

Be safe and good luck!

Taterhead
05-14-2012, 22:12
Yep. What has been said is correct. TG has virtually NO margin for error. If I had a bunch of it onhand and only loaded for 10mm, I would select charges at or near starting charges if running through a mechanized dispensing system.

800-X is capable of good performance, but it must be hand weighed. Longshot or Accurate no. 9 (A9) are what you want if running through a progressive setup and warm velocities are desired. Blue Dot would work too, but will not meter quite as consistently as Longshot or A9.

Cwlongshot
05-15-2012, 04:00
Hey Adamg_55, and welcome!

Some things in life are not meant to go together, and I believe one of them is Tight Group and 10mm. If you want a high performance 10mm powder that meters well enough for your progressive press, try Long Shot. It loads well in all bullet weights for 10mm. AA#9 is also a great powder for 180 gr bullets and probably meters the best of any of the good 10mm powders.

Be safe and good luck!


I agree!!

I just would like to reiterate, top loadings should be weighed individually! The varaitions in progressive loading can put a top loading into the unsafe category. Save the progressive for the training/ practice hunting ammo. TOP loadings have always been a single stage proposition for me.

I will "prep" cases on rainy days and store for future loadings. I mean tumble clean, resize, trim (If needed) clean primer pockets, flair and box. I do not use those in the Dillon 550. I save them for testing, top and accuracy loadings. That way when I find a need for top loads I have removed allot of the "drudgery" of single stage loading. ;)

Good luck,
CW

Maine1
05-16-2012, 05:18
hand weight the 800x. its worth it.

Adamg_55
05-17-2012, 13:12
Thanks guys, I'm in Canada and trying to track down AA#9 is very difficult for whatever reason so I'm gonna grab some long shot it seems to be easy to get.

Also I loaded up some 180gr with the max listed 6gr of tight group so I'll keep loading those until I've gone through my 8lb jug and then I'll get something else.

In the mean time I've got the 800x, just not looking forward to hand weighing.

Do most of you guys use a beam scale or digital when working up a 10mm load.

_The_Shadow
05-17-2012, 13:24
Adamg_55, I like the beam scale for powder weighing, I can watch the beam as I add individual kernals of powder. I set my powder drop to drop one the money or just shy, throw a charge into the scale pan, adjust with the trickler to finish.

When I load, I only weigh the powder and seat bullets on charged cases. All other steps were all done prior.

Good luck!

WeeWilly
05-17-2012, 14:11
Thanks guys, I'm in Canada and trying to track down AA#9 is very difficult for whatever reason so I'm gonna grab some long shot it seems to be easy to get.

Also I loaded up some 180gr with the max listed 6gr of tight group so I'll keep loading those until I've gone through my 8lb jug and then I'll get something else.

In the mean time I've got the 800x, just not looking forward to hand weighing.

Do most of you guys use a beam scale or digital when working up a 10mm load.

My local Gunshop owner buys his AA#9 online, he said he couldn't buy it from his dealers, maybe somebody in marketing at Accurate is watching...

You will like the Longshot, I sure do.

I use an RCBS 1010 beam, but I would not recommend spending that much. Get a Dillon Eliminator or RCBS 505, just as accurate, half the price.

dwhite53
05-17-2012, 15:34
Try this, make yourself a dipper out of a spent casing. Put a weighed charge of 800X in a spent casing and note the fill level. File the case down to the noted height. Affix a handle to the case. Dip and weigh a couple charges to check weight and consistency. Final trim as needed to obtain correct weight of charge.

This was suggested to me for measuring Unique for .40 loads. It works very well and runs +/- 0.1 grains. I haven't used 800X but it should still dip pretty consistently.

All the Best,
D. White

Taterhead
05-17-2012, 20:28
Try this, make yourself a dipper out of a spent casing. Put a weighed charge of 800X in a spent casing and note the fill level. File the case down to the noted height. Affix a handle to the case. Dip and weigh a couple charges to check weight and consistency. Final trim as needed to obtain correct weight of charge.

This was suggested to me for measuring Unique for .40 loads. It works very well and runs +/- 0.1 grains. I haven't used 800X but it should still dip pretty consistently.

All the Best,
D. White

This is worth a try.

I would be interested in how this works. The main issue with 800-X is that it is volumetrically inconsistent. The way that those thin and wide wafers align cause different charge weights per volume from charge to charge. It is like the shape of discs cut out of tissue paper.

I have observed that when there are several cases in a tray that have hand weighed charges, they will each have noticable differences in fill height. Jiggle or tap the cases a bit, and they settle. A lot. I have filled over 14.5 grains in a case to the point where it is virtually spilling over. A couple of light taps and the powder settles noticeably. So a case filled to the top has the same amount of powder as a case filled to within 1/8th of an inch or so of the top. I would not expect +/- 0.1 grain precision with a dipper-type of setup. But I could be wrong.

I have not seen anything like 800-X with the various shotgun, pistol, or rifle powders that I have used.

But again, this would be worth a try for loads a ways off of max. I hand weigh anything close to max - even with Accurate Powders.

gator378
05-19-2012, 11:00
Try this, make yourself a dipper out of a spent casing. Put a weighed charge of 800X in a spent casing and note the fill level. File the case down to the noted height. Affix a handle to the case. Dip and weigh a couple charges to check weight and consistency. Final trim as needed to obtain correct weight of charge.

This was suggested to me for measuring Unique for .40 loads. It works very well and runs +/- 0.1 grains. I haven't used 800X but it should still dip pretty consistently.

All the Best,
D. White Or buy the Lee Powder Dipper set. Lee made a lot of money with their Poweder Dippers

shotgunred
06-03-2012, 21:25
If you want to use your tight group i would suggest 180's 3.5g TG super soft IDPA gamers load.
Don't push tight group. Look for

WSF
Power pistol
long shot