A 14" barrel pistol grip shotgun that isn't NFA? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Narkcop
05-17-2012, 04:21
I just came across this last night and it seems to indicate a loophole where you can have a 14" barrel pistol grip shotgun and not have to buy a tax stamp. It must have shipped from the factory with just a pistol grip and have an overall length over 26". What you think?
http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

vafish
05-17-2012, 05:03
You still have to buy a tax stamp. But its $5 for an aow instead of $200

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vafish
05-17-2012, 05:13
Just read the whole article.

I'll bet the tech branch letters get overturned just like the bumpfire stocks with the springs in them.

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Bluestreakfl
05-17-2012, 05:36
I noticed the ATF is very cautious in their wording, but it appears thus far this firearm wouldn't be an NFA weapon.

ETA: Henry and Rossi have already used a similar loophole with their lever action "pistols", the Henry mares leg and the Rossi ranch hand. Shipped from the factory with a pistol grip thus handguns.
Sent from my phone booth

MarcDW
05-17-2012, 06:03
Anything with a smooth bore under 18" is a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS) and requires the $5 and 6 month wait.
It really does not matter if and what stock is on there.
That is one reason the Taurus Judge has a rifled barrel.
I don't know where these guys got this letter from, but good luck with a Judge not laughing you out of court and slamming you with a fine if not jail time!

Narkcop
05-17-2012, 11:23
If it has a stock it's a SBS if it doesn't it's AOW, however AOW would be under 26". I think the Mare's head rifles are a good comparison as it appears this doen't need a stamp. ATF may change their tune later but the letters on that website check out.

countrygun
05-17-2012, 11:33
If it has a stock it's a SBS if it doesn't it's AOW, however AOW would be under 26". I think the Mare's head rifles are a good comparison as it appears this doen't need a stamp. ATF may change their tune later but the letters on that website check out.


The "Mares Leg" "rifles" are actually pistols, the same as a Ruger Blackhawk for instance.

A smoothbore shotgun has a different set of rules.

Glockdude1
05-17-2012, 11:42
You still have to buy a tax stamp. But its $5 for an aow instead of $200



:agree:

$5 tax stamp.

:cool:

vafish
05-17-2012, 16:10
I can't believe that Mossberg hasn't jumped on the sale of these.

But I bet state laws would be a nightmare. I did check VA code and it appears to allow sawed off shotguns if possessed in compliance with federal law.

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cloudbuster
05-17-2012, 17:38
Has anyone ever tried to go to court to challenge the Miller decision? As I recall, the decision was never argued on the pro-Miller end, because Miller wasn't around when it finally came before the court.

The ATF's restrictions are ludicrous. On one hand, we have weapons that are restricted because they have "no militia use" -- and SBR's and SBSG's (as well as weapons with full-auto capability) clearly have a militia use -- and on the other hand we have weapons restricted for not having "a sporting purpose" as if the second amendment says anything about sport.

TN.Frank
05-17-2012, 17:54
I personally think all these Firearms Laws are a bunch of horse crap anyway, what part of "Infringe" aren't the jerks that pass these laws understanding.
All that aside, I've always thought that a smooth bore shotgun had to have at least an 18" bbl and be 26" or longer to be legal. That's why they put rifling in the revolving shotgun/revolvers like the Judge and Governor so they'll be classified as a revolver instead of a short barrel shotgun.
I do know that if you buy an AR lower and fill out the 4473 to state that it's a handgun instead of a long gun then you can build an AR pistol out of it but if you fill out the 4473 and list it as a long gun and build a pistol you're up crap creek because you've just manufactured an illegal weapon.
I know, stuff like that is so totally stupid but it's because a bunch of Lawyer types wrote all these dang laws in the first place.
I really do hope this "loop hole" is real but I, personally, wouldn't buy one because I really wouldn't want to risk it.

ca survivor
05-17-2012, 18:02
for 4" I won't go trough the trouble, the grip looks terrible

vafish
05-17-2012, 18:31
I personally think all these Firearms Laws are a bunch of horse crap anyway, what part of "Infringe" aren't the jerks that pass these laws understanding.
All that aside, I've always thought that a smooth bore shotgun had to have at least an 18" bbl and be 26" or longer to be legal. That's why they put rifling in the revolving shotgun/revolvers like the Judge and Governor so they'll be classified as a revolver instead of a short barrel shotgun.
I do know that if you buy an AR lower and fill out the 4473 to state that it's a handgun instead of a long gun then you can build an AR pistol out of it but if you fill out the 4473 and list it as a long gun and build a pistol you're up crap creek because you've just manufactured an illegal weapon.
I know, stuff like that is so totally stupid but it's because a bunch of Lawyer types wrote all these dang laws in the first place.
I really do hope this "loop hole" is real but I, personally, wouldn't buy one because I really wouldn't want to risk it.

The new 4473's have a terms for receivers only.

I do think the big problem with building one of these is even though you are legal to do so, most cops would still arrest you for having one without NFA paperwork.

Narkcop
05-17-2012, 19:48
If ATF wants to arrest you they will, it's really that simple. I know I served my time at DEA for 6 1/2 years and the Federal system is so totally corrupt it's scary. I'm gonna get one as long as I'm complyimg with the law I'm not going to sweat it.

WoodenPlank
05-17-2012, 19:53
I noticed the ATF is very cautious in their wording, but it appears thus far this firearm wouldn't be an NFA weapon.

ETA: Henry and Rossi have already used a similar loophole with their lever action "pistols", the Henry mares leg and the Rossi ranch hand. Shipped from the factory with a pistol grip thus handguns.
Sent from my phone booth

The "Mares Leg" "rifles" are actually pistols, the same as a Ruger Blackhawk for instance.

A smoothbore shotgun has a different set of rules.

Correct. Early mares legs were converted from factory rifles, and therefore became AOWs. The new ones are made from the factory as a pistol.

The ATF has recently been making some odd rulings. A 26" or more OAL on an AR with a forward vertical grip and a pistol lower isn't an AOW or a pistol, but an "Other" on a 4473, and no stamp required. Same situation here - over 26" OAL means no stamp.

For now. The ATF can reverse that decision at ANY time, and they do NOT have to grandfather you in.