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HKLovingIT
05-18-2012, 08:11
In Maryland, yesterday they did a little thing at a checkpoint where if you are wearing your seat belt you could possibly get pulled over and "rewarded" with a dollar. If not, you get some educational materials and maybe a fine.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/05/17/maryland-cops-giving-1-to-drivers-with-seatbelts/

So is it correct to say that under normal circumstances, I think (not sure anymore), that to get pulled over there has to be probable cause that you are in violation of something, motor vehicle violation, whatever?

But it appears that with this gimmick since you are only being pulled over to be given a "reward" you are okay to be pulled over without any probable cause of a violation. I guess then if during the "reward stop" something comes up, you'll get a ticket or charge for that. :dunno: :rofl:

Please don't hate on cops in this thread. My thread is about this goofy program that Maryland thought up, not the individuals who were tasked with carrying it out.

Cavalry Doc
05-18-2012, 08:16
Yeah, I have a problem with this. If I'm going to get pulled over, and my trip delayed, I should get at least my normal hourly wage. That would be $0.85 a minute.

JFrame
05-18-2012, 08:17
They don't get as much publicity -- but I'm guessin' that Maryland can give California a good run for the money for having the most bone-headed governments (state and municipal)...


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Goaltender66
05-18-2012, 08:28
In other news, Maryland's legislature and governor (Martin O'Malley) recently agreed to significant tax hikes on middle- and high-income people, based on arguments that otherwise-mandatory cuts to the state budget were too onerous to allow.

JFrame
05-18-2012, 08:42
In other news, Maryland's legislature and governor (Martin O'Malley) recently agreed to significant tax hikes on middle- and high-income people, based on arguments that otherwise-mandatory cuts to the state budget were too onerous to allow.


I've noticed that the traffic at rush hour on the Wilson Bridge is always worse getting into Virginia than to Maryland in the morning -- and the reverse in the evening. This tells me that there are more Marylanders needing to work and conduct business in VA than the other way around.

I find that a microcosmic indicator of the relative success of a business-friendly state versus a tax-heavy nanny state.

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eracer
05-18-2012, 08:48
I see no difference between that and any DUI checkpoint or random ID check. Both are complete violations of the 4th Amendment right to freedom from unreasonable searches. Thanks, Rehnquist, you 'conservative' 'federalist'...

It boggles my brain that SCOTUS has OK'd them.

G29Reload
05-18-2012, 11:03
In other news, Maryland's legislature and governor (Martin O'Malley) recently agreed to significant tax hikes on middle- and high-income people, based on arguments that otherwise-mandatory cuts to the state budget were too onerous to allow.

Well, they have to pay for all the extra cops, pulling people over to give away money for flagrantly obeying the law.

You can't make this crap up. Glad i don't live there anymore.

I'd have an earful for them if I got this kind of harrassment. GTFO of my way, I'm going to work and don't have time for this horses#$%!!!

Numismatist
05-18-2012, 11:14
I don't think anyone (Gubermint included) has the right to tell me I have to wear a seatbelt...that should be my choice and I accept the consequences of my choice. I really hate these types of laws...

rant over

RustyShackelford
05-18-2012, 11:40
Roadblocks and 'Driver Checkpoints' are illegal and unconstitutional. Whether they award you with a dollar or not.

firefighter4215
05-18-2012, 11:44
Roadblocks and 'Driver Checkpoints' are illegal and unconstitutional. Whether they award you with a dollar or not.

Now how do you figure a checkpoint like they commonly use to find DUIs on holidays are illegal?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

eracer
05-18-2012, 11:53
Now how do you figure a checkpoint like they commonly use to find DUIs on holidays are illegal?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engineIn a 1990 ruling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Dept._of_State_Police_v._Sitz), SCOTUS basically said it was a violation of the right to unreasonable search and seizure, but ruled that the needs of the 'Public Good' overode Constitutional considerations.

Complete horse manure.

RustyShackelford
05-18-2012, 12:07
Now how do you figure a checkpoint like they commonly use to find DUIs on holidays are illegal?

Because there is the trap that we all have to go through (and the implied guilt) all for "getting drunks off the road". I would love to see an accurate statistic to prove that a) the number of drunks caught is greater than finding them on the open road or b) we are better off in any way for the police state imposed upon us.

IGotIt
05-18-2012, 13:06
In a 1990 ruling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Dept._of_State_Police_v._Sitz), SCOTUS basically said it was a violation of the right to unreasonable search and seizure, but ruled that the needs of the 'Public Good' overode Constitutional considerations.

Complete horse manure.

In my area, DUI checkpoint locations days and times are printed a day or two prior to operation in local newspapers.

Re: being stopped to pat me on the back for wearing a seatbelt, that's wrong.

Cavalry Doc
05-18-2012, 17:29
Why not use camera's, and just send a check to the good guys?


Why stop them? I'd feel a bit put out by that.

Toyman
05-19-2012, 05:10
I'm pretty sure that other States have tried this in the past and it didn't go over well in the courts for them.

eracer
05-19-2012, 05:27
Why not use camera's, and just send a check to the good guys?


Why stop them? I'd feel a bit put out by that.I guarantee you that some nimrod (I so seldom get to use that word in a sentence...) would complain because the State obviously can't prove that it was him driving the car that day.

certifiedfunds
05-19-2012, 05:54
I wonder what the courts would say if they pulled over a driver FOR wearing his seatbelt and then smelled alcohol...

barbedwiresmile
05-19-2012, 07:22
Now how do you figure a checkpoint like they commonly use to find DUIs on holidays are illegal?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Here we go...

Cavalry Doc
05-19-2012, 08:31
I wonder what the courts would say if they pulled over a driver FOR wearing his seatbelt and then smelled alcohol...

Just an added benefit I'm sure. :faint:

Pretty sneaky, now wearing a seatbelt is grounds to begin a conversation on the roadside with a LEO.

Very good insight. Proof that a little paranoia is a very healthy thing.

hogship
05-19-2012, 08:53
Has it occurred to anyone else that "probable cause" is no longer necessary?

Wear a seat belt......get pulled over.

Don't wear a seat belt......get pulled over.


:shocked:



I'd say it's a possibility this whole reward thing just might be a sneaky way to subvert the law. It appears as though the Highway Patrol can pull anyone over at any time.....and justify their actions.

Just sayin........:whistling:

ooc

Ruble Noon
05-19-2012, 08:57
Has it occurred to anyone else that "probable cause" is no longer necessary?

Wear a seat belt......get pulled over.

Don't wear a seat belt......get pulled over.


:shocked:



I'd say it's a possibility this whole reward thing just might be a sneaky way to subvert the law. It appears as though the Highway Patrol can pull anyone over at any time.....and justify their actions.

Just sayin........:whistling:

ooc

Thank the wars on drugs and terror.

Cavalry Doc
05-19-2012, 10:38
Thank the wars on drugs and terror.

New front. War on Seatbelts, fighting both sides.

Ruble Noon
05-19-2012, 10:48
New front. War on Seatbelts, fighting both sides.

Sadly my state has joined this new war and there is no shortage of cops willing to stop you over a $10 fine.

Gary W Trott
05-19-2012, 10:55
Maybe they could just put up a sign that says:

"If you want a $1.00 Pull Over"

The program could be named: "BUCKle Up"

Cavalry Doc
05-19-2012, 11:14
Sadly my state has joined this new war and there is no shortage of cops willing to stop you over a $10 fine.

I've always worn a seatbelt. Out of choice. First as a teenager with a '67 Nova with a front bench seat, the belt kept you in your seat when cornering hard. Probably didn't really improve my safety, but I never had an accident in that vehicle.

Later, due to seeing what happens to people not wearing them when they had their unexpected collision.

Why force other people to wear them? That's a tough one, and the only thing I can come up with, is that if I make a boneheaded move and cause a collision, and if someone dies in the other vehicle because they didn't have the seat belt, my problems are larger than they should have been.

But if I had to vote one way or the other, I'd vote for the choice.

concretefuzzynuts
05-19-2012, 11:28
For those of us who care:

AMENDMENT IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Ruble Noon
05-19-2012, 11:43
I've always worn a seatbelt. Out of choice. First as a teenager with a '67 Nova with a front bench seat, the belt kept you in your seat when cornering hard. Probably didn't really improve my safety, but I never had an accident in that vehicle.

Later, due to seeing what happens to people not wearing them when they had their unexpected collision.

Why force other people to wear them? That's a tough one, and the only thing I can come up with, is that if I make a boneheaded move and cause a collision, and if someone dies in the other vehicle because they didn't have the seat belt, my problems are larger than they should have been.

But if I had to vote one way or the other, I'd vote for the choice.

I paid my way through college and helped my girlfriend, who ended up being my wife, through college by working in a body shop rebuilding cars that were too fubar to be repaired by the ins. co. I have removed windshields that had hair and scalp embedded in them, found pieces of skull, blood and guts throughout the crashed vehicles. Some of the occupants of these vehicles would have been well served by wearing a seat belt while others died with their belt on. That old line the LE uses that they have never unbuckled a deceased person is a bunch of BS.

Cavalry Doc
05-19-2012, 13:58
I paid my way through college and helped my girlfriend, who ended up being my wife, through college by working in a body shop rebuilding cars that were too fubar to be repaired by the ins. co. I have removed windshields that had hair and scalp embedded in them, found pieces of skull, blood and guts throughout the crashed vehicles. Some of the occupants of these vehicles would have been well served by wearing a seat belt while others died with their belt on. That old line the LE uses that they have never unbuckled a deceased person is a bunch of BS.

They let the Medical examiner or EMT's do that I would assume. Still odds are you are six more times likely to die in a crash without the seatbelt. Remember being taught about a fatal car crash between two vehicles, speed limit was 15mph on WPAFB, neither car was speeding.

Still it's a choice, like helmet laws. But please, if you don't wear a helmet, or a seatbelt, please make sure you strongly consider organ donation, and inform your family of your choice.

steveksux
05-19-2012, 14:15
I wonder what the courts would say if they pulled over a driver FOR wearing his seatbelt and then smelled alcohol...I was thinking along those lines too. Anything in plain sight is fair game on a stop. But that's a stop based on RS of some other law being broken.

My totally inexpert and uninformed position would be this: When the stop is bad, the stuff found as a result are fruits of the poisoned tree.

If random, or DUI checkpoints are only exceptions to 4th amendment based on "public good", don't see that applying here.

Randy

NorthCarolinaLiberty
05-22-2012, 22:22
2010: Neenah, Wisconsin Police Chief Kevin Wilkinson proposes a free dessert for motorists passing through a voluntary checkpoint.

Imagine the wealth creation of such an idea. Perhaps you redeem your dessert coupon to the local teen who cheerfully serves you an ice cream cone. Maybe there was a nearby factory, where a worker proudly boxes up your Sara Lee.

Imagine the economic stimulus of a dollar for Prince Georges. Here, a local teen salts the fries while you savor your Xanax Meal.

G19G20
05-23-2012, 01:54
I've noticed that the traffic at rush hour on the Wilson Bridge is always worse getting into Virginia than to Maryland in the morning -- and the reverse in the evening. This tells me that there are more Marylanders needing to work and conduct business in VA than the other way around.

I find that a microcosmic indicator of the relative success of a business-friendly state versus a tax-heavy nanny state.

.

Have you lived in the DC area long? This was a conclusion drawn back in the 90's and hasn't changed. I was born and raised there. Everybody lives in the burbs of MD or VA and commutes into the NOVA/DC area. I commuted from Centreville to Arlington Courthouse every day...like everyone. Before I moved the hell out of DC area and went south to greener pastures.

pulaskipusher
05-23-2012, 02:04
It's all fun and games until somebody finds a meth lab.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
05-25-2012, 22:22
Play stupid games; award stupid prizes.

GRIMLET
05-26-2012, 00:00
Our dept has an arrangement with a local fast food franchise. They provide us with cards redeemable for a free ice cream cone. We issue them to children when wearing life jackets when on a boat. Its a state law and its rewarding those who are doing the right thing. We have heard very positive feedback. Its a TOTAL WIN WIN.

Great PR and great for safety.

barbedwiresmile
05-26-2012, 06:40
Play stupid games; award stupid prizes.

:rofl:

JFrame
05-26-2012, 10:10
Have you lived in the DC area long? This was a conclusion drawn back in the 90's and hasn't changed. I was born and raised there. Everybody lives in the burbs of MD or VA and commutes into the NOVA/DC area. I commuted from Centreville to Arlington Courthouse every day...like everyone. Before I moved the hell out of DC area and went south to greener pastures.


I've lived in VA since the 70's. I had reason to commute to Maryland (over the WW Bridge) for a few years back in the 90's, when I had a first-hand look at the traffic "discrepancy."

I'm glad you were able to find the opportunity to move away from the Beltway madness...I keep telling myself, "Someday..." :)


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G19G20
05-26-2012, 14:24
DC area is obviously shielded from the economic troubles compared to other regions but I could NEVER go back there now, even with the relatively better economy there. All the other crap that comes along with living there isn't worth it. I hope you're able to relocate sooner rather than later. The giant reduction in my stress levels alone have made it worth it.

JFrame
05-26-2012, 15:19
DC area is obviously shielded from the economic troubles compared to other regions but I could NEVER go back there now, even with the relatively better economy there. All the other crap that comes along with living there isn't worth it. I hope you're able to relocate sooner rather than later. The giant reduction in my stress levels alone have made it worth it.

Thanks -- I needed reassurance that there's a "life after Beltway.". :supergrin:


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