Anyone shoot the M1 Garand Matches? / Long range rifle matches? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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CBennett
05-18-2012, 16:42
Hi Ive been contemplating a few new guns and ive pretty much got it singled out to either a(at around $1000)

1. M1 garand in 30-06 OR .308

2. A long range rifle like the Savage 110/10 series

Trying to keep prices of the rifles at $1000 or under so I could afford some ammo and or a decent scope for the later option.

What I was wondering is on the non national scale(im not talking the national camp perry type matches) has anyone shot the M1 Garand competitions say for instance at their local range(I know my local range has them listed..or at least they did last year). How do you like it, do you have fun? what type of Garand(kind of condition) do you need to be at all competitive?

Im assuming both the 30-06 and the .308 models are usable in the M1 Garand competitions? Is there a benefit to one over the other(I see right now CMP has some .308 ones in stock along with the 30-06)..Is there a certain grade or features id want in one if I planned on taking it to shoot a match every now and then?

As I get "older" here im trying to find some fun ways to do things without wrecking myself playing hockey and or Football anymore lol. And ive always been interested in M1 Garands and Long range/ sniper rifle type competitions(was a designated marksman in the SRT team in the military so ive shot a M14 at distance out to around 500 yds or so and bolt action Remington .308 out to about the same).

Ive apparently got some $$ coming to me and will be able to afford something in the $1000 range give or take to suit my M1 or Long range rifle wants/needs.

So same question for a long range type rifle in a "stock" division would the Savage 10/110 type models be worth running? Ive heard good things..they are more in my price range? Anyone have and or use one with good results??

Deaf Smith
05-18-2012, 16:51
Well it ain't in Pennsylvania but...

http://blackforkblog.blogspot.com/

Talk to Robert Langham in Tyler Texas. He is a top state shot and above is his blog.

Deaf

Jason D
05-18-2012, 17:16
I have shot the M1's out to 600 yards in Highpower matches.
Some at Camp Perry during the national, some with the ORPA.

CBennett
05-18-2012, 17:39
I have shot the M1's out to 600 yards in Highpower matches.
Some at Camp Perry during the national, some with the ORPA.


Was it a good time? Ive never shot open sights that far..how "hard" is it to hit at that distance? BTW got good eyesight for now lol 20/20 so luckily I should at least be able to see the target :)

countrygun
05-18-2012, 18:10
First I must congratulate you on narrowing it down to two excellent choices. I have a 110 in 30-06 and a few Garands. One of my M-1s I have had for almost 3 decades now. I have nunted derr, elk,bear and coyote with it. I won't tell you about the longest shot with it out of modesty:embarassed: and respect for the gods of luck.

If you get serious about the M-1 invest in an adjustable gas screw which will open up a few doors ammo wise and reload wise. Funny thing about caliber choice, when I got my first one surplus 06 was still around so that was the way to go, then the 06 started to dry up and a bunch of surp .308/7.62 showed up and it made a reasonable alternative. Shopping around just yesterday I wasn't really impressed with the surplus .308 so I call it a draw. IMO there is a lot more crappy surplus .308 to begin with than crappy 30-06 back in the day. Again, IMO reloading is really a must in my life so that makes the caliber choice a wash.

Jason D
05-18-2012, 18:44
Was it a good time? Ive never shot open sights that far..how "hard" is it to hit at that distance? BTW got good eyesight for now lol 20/20 so luckily I should at least be able to see the target :)

It's a lot of fun, but also work. You would be servicing the targets of other shooters as they did for you.

It's not hard to hit the targets as they get larger the father out you are.

A standard 200 yard target is 40" x 42"
A standard 600 yard target is 67" x 72"
The 1000 yard target is the same size as the 600, but with a bigger black area.

If you can hit a 200 yard target, you can do 300, 600, or 1000 without much more work.

You would need a good load, a good rifle, and know your come ups. You would be changing your sight position a lot. You would also be using slings and shooting positions to keep on target.

www.ODCMP.com

CBennett
05-18-2012, 19:32
Thanks for the Info so far guys. Im leaning m1 but not 100% or anything. Ive just always been more enamored with the bullseye/accuracy shooting like Silhouette and Bulls-eye types of competition than the run and gun type stuff so these 2(M1 or long range target type stuff) seem really up my alley.

Zombie Steve
05-18-2012, 20:18
Now I want to do high power again. What did I do with that jug of H4895?

Big Bird
05-18-2012, 21:17
Sight adjustment for an M1 Garand for 200, 300 and 600 for me was: 200 = 2 Up from absolute zero, 300 = 2 up from the 200 Yard setting or 4 up from absolute zero. 600 yards was 6 up from 300 yards, or 10 up from absolute zero. At 600 yards you might see a half minute of change based on light conditions (lights up--sights up).

I shot highpower for many years. Worked my way into master class. The hardest part about a highpower match is the 200 yard offhand. Not the 600 yard target. Lots of folks can shoot a clean score on the 200 and 300 yard rapid fire. Sometimes the wind will play hell with you on the 600 yard target. But the part of the match that separates the men from the boys is the 200 yard offhand.

Three-Five-Seven
05-18-2012, 21:23
Our Garand matches, service rifle matches, 600 yard Long Range matches, and 1000 yard high power matches are each held once a month. So, the long range/service community is very active and vibrant. There are lots of nice guys who shoot these matches and you will be welcomed, I'm sure at your range.

If you are a veteran, you'll find many people who are birds of a feather and will make some good, new friends.

You cannot buy a long range rifle and scope for the money you suggest. Heck, you can't even buy a scope that works for long range for that price.

So, find a good Garand and have the money set aside to get it rebarreled and tuned up. 308 and 30-06 are equally represented at our Garand matches.

Wyoming
05-18-2012, 23:03
Now I want to do high power again. What did I do with that jug of H4895?

Steve, is there any M1 Garand matches in our area?

Tallahassee
05-18-2012, 23:08
So, find a good Garand and have the money set aside to get it rebarreled and tuned up. 308 and 30-06 are equally represented at our Garand matches.

IMHO this is good advice. Plus, the Garand is a piece of American history. I personally do not feel my collection would be complete without it.

I just got a Garand through the CMP, very easy process and highly recommended. They were great to work with.

CBennett
05-19-2012, 06:48
Ok so with the Garand what would I want then to get it set up for accuracy? best results in the M1 matches(local ones). Would I want a cheaper grade M1 30-06 based then get a new barrel added, trigger cleaned up, and everything "went through" (which id probably do in the late fall/winter so it would be ready for spring..this year id run it as I get it) by someone that knows what they are doing those grades from CMP seem to run $600-$700 (the cheaper grades) then id have to add on some to send it in or get someone to tune it up...

OR

Would I want to step up to the ones they currently have which are the "Special Grade" that pretty much already have everything like new furniture, NEW barrel from Criterion( are these barrels any good??), basically like new it seems from description. They have these in 30-06 AND .308

Would there be any advantage to 30-06 or .308 ive read the .308 is a but softer shooting?? but as far as accuracy?? any??

Ive also read that out of the box from CMP these(the lower grades) are about 3 MOA guns...and that with a new barrel and some trigger work and other stuff they can be made to get about 1.5 MOA and that would at least put you in the running to be competitive?? True? false?

Any suggestions for guys(especially if any are in the PA state area) that do these mods? figured if it was close enough and in PA I could save the shipping.

On the Long range/Sniper type rifle:

I guess I was thinking with the Savage 10/110 .308 rifles id have bought the rifle this year and then used my Intensity optics Scope(5-20) ive got on my silhouette .22 LR(which i cant shoot this year due to them having it on a day I work) till I could afford something better....

but its looking the the M1 may be the way to go as has been said. Though it looks like(unless the Special Grade with its new barrel and hardware would do well without a lot of expensive mods) that they would both in the case of the Savage need a better scope and in the case of the m1 need "work/tuned up" to really shoot decent...???

Zombie Steve
05-19-2012, 08:11
Steve, is there any M1 Garand matches in our area?

There was just a NRA High Power match at Colorado Rifle Club in Byers... about 40 miles east of Denver. If you're in Cheyenne, it might be a 90 minute drive...


ETA: http://www.crci.org/Portals/15/Content/Files/Highpower%20Files/2012%2080%20shot%20match%20program.pdf

countrygun
05-19-2012, 10:32
Ok so with the Garand what would I want then to get it set up for accuracy? best results in the M1 matches(local ones). Would I want a cheaper grade M1 30-06 based then get a new barrel added, trigger cleaned up, and everything "went through" (which id probably do in the late fall/winter so it would be ready for spring..this year id run it as I get it) by someone that knows what they are doing those grades from CMP seem to run $600-$700 (the cheaper grades) then id have to add on some to send it in or get someone to tune it up...

OR

Would I want to step up to the ones they currently have which are the "Special Grade" that pretty much already have everything like new furniture, NEW barrel from Criterion( are these barrels any good??), basically like new it seems from description. They have these in 30-06 AND .308

Would there be any advantage to 30-06 or .308 ive read the .308 is a but softer shooting?? but as far as accuracy?? any??

Ive also read that out of the box from CMP these(the lower grades) are about 3 MOA guns...and that with a new barrel and some trigger work and other stuff they can be made to get about 1.5 MOA and that would at least put you in the running to be competitive?? True? false?

Any suggestions for guys(especially if any are in the PA state area) that do these mods? figured if it was close enough and in PA I could save the shipping.

On the Long range/Sniper type rifle:

I guess I was thinking with the Savage 10/110 .308 rifles id have bought the rifle this year and then used my Intensity optics Scope(5-20) ive got on my silhouette .22 LR(which i cant shoot this year due to them having it on a day I work) till I could afford something better....

but its looking the the M1 may be the way to go as has been said. Though it looks like(unless the Special Grade with its new barrel and hardware would do well without a lot of expensive mods) that they would both in the case of the Savage need a better scope and in the case of the m1 need "work/tuned up" to really shoot decent...???


It depends on what type of matches you are shooting in. There are matches for "service grade" that don't allow many of the modifications. Then you can move up to other types of matches and "mod away"

Probably the biggest issue with an M-1 for the buyer would be barrel erosion so you might want to look at one with a new barrel. IMO it would be best for you to find what matches are available to you FIRST, then get the gun to match the rules.

As far as recoil, in a 9.5# M-1 there just isn't going to be a great difference, especially since they are going to operate at the same pressure level to operate the action properly.

I don't really know of any matches where you could be competative with a Savage 110 without spending a lot more money that an M-1 on the scope alone most likely.

CBennett
05-19-2012, 13:11
Id have to check to be sure but the range info/schedule says:

CMP M-1 Match

seems they have this about every week from April on to fall or so

http://www.consolidatedsportsmen.com/index.php/events2012

Wyoming
05-19-2012, 22:58
There was just a NRA High Power match at Colorado Rifle Club in Byers... about 40 miles east of Denver. If you're in Cheyenne, it might be a 90 minute drive...


ETA: http://www.crci.org/Portals/15/Content/Files/Highpower%20Files/2012%2080%20shot%20match%20program.pdf

I am in the other corner! 4 1/2 hours to Cheyenne if the roads are clear.

CBennett
05-20-2012, 08:28
Sight adjustment for an M1 Garand for 200, 300 and 600 for me was: 200 = 2 Up from absolute zero, 300 = 2 up from the 200 Yard setting or 4 up from absolute zero. 600 yards was 6 up from 300 yards, or 10 up from absolute zero. At 600 yards you might see a half minute of change based on light conditions (lights up--sights up).

I shot highpower for many years. Worked my way into master class. The hardest part about a highpower match is the 200 yard offhand. Not the 600 yard target. Lots of folks can shoot a clean score on the 200 and 300 yard rapid fire. Sometimes the wind will play hell with you on the 600 yard target. But the part of the match that separates the men from the boys is the 200 yard offhand.

ty for the tips !

rv4driver
05-20-2012, 18:21
The Cheyenne shoots are a hoot. Great people. I did some NRA Highpower stuff there. 600 yds with iron sights is really no big deal, as the aiming black is 3 feet in diameter. Still looks like the same dot as 200 standing. And, yes, 200 standing is MUCH harder than 600 prone. Still, the reward of 10's and X's from 600 with iron sights can't be explained. Service Rifle can be done with a 1000 dollar gun, but it's all uphill from there. I did Byers and Bailey too, but the driving got to me. That's all I do all week, it got hard to face it on the weekend.

Jeff

byf43
05-20-2012, 18:40
If you decide on the M1 Garand, you will be hooked!!!!

I started shooting High Power, using a 'club gun' (M1 Garand).
The serial number is forever etched in my brain. (#3547xxx)
What a shooter!!!
My club had several rifles, but, needed to send one back, for replacement/repairs.
The deputy director of DCM (Lt. Col. Rose) said that since a couple of our members were going to Camp Perry, one of them could pick up a new rifle from the DCM 'smith, there.
Wow!!!!!! This rifle was a GREAT shooter, right out of the box!!
Less than 2 MOA at 100 yards! (With handloads.)
M2 Ball wasn't too shabby, either!


Get the M1 Garand!!
Accurize it if you want, work up a load for it, and have a BLAST!!!!!!!

CBennett
05-20-2012, 20:30
If you decide on the M1 Garand, you will be hooked!!!!

I started shooting High Power, using a 'club gun' (M1 Garand).
The serial number is forever etched in my brain. (#3547xxx)
What a shooter!!!
My club had several rifles, but, needed to send one back, for replacement/repairs.
The deputy director of DCM (Lt. Col. Rose) said that since a couple of our members were going to Camp Perry, one of them could pick up a new rifle from the DCM 'smith, there.
Wow!!!!!! This rifle was a GREAT shooter, right out of the box!!
Less than 2 MOA at 100 yards! (With handloads.)
M2 Ball wasn't too shabby, either!


Get the M1 Garand!!
Accurize it if you want, work up a load for it, and have a BLAST!!!!!!!


ty i cant wait :)

CBennett
05-20-2012, 20:54
any recomendations on a place/person to accurize m1's? I figure shoot it as it comes this year and maybe send it for a "tuneup" during the fall/winter. It would be a bonus if anyone knew of one that was in or close to PA.

glockaviator
05-21-2012, 01:07
If you get a scope make sure it has at least 40moa of UP adjustment. UP adjustment will be 1/2 of total elevation adjustment. A 3x-9 Nikon Buckmaster can be bought for $260 and it has 80moa of total elevation so it will do the job.

If you put a 20moa base, usually a picatinny rail, on your rifle, that will add 20 moa to your UP elevation so you can get by with a scope that has 40 moa total elevation (with 20 of that UP elevation).

As for caliber, 308 is the traditional choice for starting out. However, you have to make sure you pick a long range bullet that will stabilize all the way to 1000 yards. Long range shooters also have to be concerned with twist rate. A 1 in 12 twist is adequate with 1 in 11 or 1 in 10 being a better choice as these twists will stabilize heavier bullets.

A remington 700 in 308 with heavy varmint barrel (long range shooters use heavy barrels due to accuracy and heating issues) with a EGW picatinny rail and Nikon Buckmaster scope will run about $1000 or so. It can be done. Then if you really get into it get a better stock and rebarrel your rem 700 in Rem 260 with a custom barrel and you have a rifle that can compete with the big boys. You will also need a quality front rest and rear bag set up.

As for loads I suggest 155 grain Lapua scenars starting with Varget powder. Factory ammo can be had but avoid the 168 grain bullets as they don't do well for long range.

Good luck! It's a lot of fun to shoot out to 1000 yards!

byf43
05-21-2012, 05:06
any recomendations on a place/person to accurize m1's? I figure shoot it as it comes this year and maybe send it for a "tuneup" during the fall/winter. It would be a bonus if anyone knew of one that was in or close to PA.


Mr. Charles Maloney is near Baltimore, MD, IF that helps you.

http://www.charliemaloney.com/

He is the gentleman that accurized my M1A, and some M1 Garand(s) that a friend has. (The M1A was accurized when my friend owned it!)
Outstanding workmanship!! :thumbsup:

He's semi-retired. Give his site a look and give him a call.

CBennett
05-21-2012, 08:19
Mr. Charles Maloney is near Baltimore, MD, IF that helps you.

http://www.charliemaloney.com/

He is the gentleman that accurized my M1A, and some M1 Garand(s) that a friend has. (The M1A was accurized when my friend owned it!)
Outstanding workmanship!! :thumbsup:

He's semi-retired. Give his site a look and give him a call.

yes that helps the only other place id heard of was SUPER expensive and looked to be doing custom stuff for like guys that win the national championships(or so their prices say lol) they were like almost $3000 for the mods + your rifle and im not looking to spend THAT kind of $$ as im not trying to win a NATIONAL match...just be competitive in local ones :) .

byf43
05-21-2012, 09:02
yes that helps the only other place id heard of was SUPER expensive and looked to be doing custom stuff for like guys that win the national championships(or so their prices say lol) they were like almost $3000 for the mods + your rifle and im not looking to spend THAT kind of $$ as im not trying to win a NATIONAL match...just be competitive in local ones :) .

Just remember, you get what you pay for.

For example - the original owner had $5,000+ invested in that M1A, before he sold it to me.
It's a sub MOA rifle out to 300 yards (1/2 MOA at 200) - the farthest I've shot it.




I'd suggest getting a CMP M1 Garand, and go from there.


Charlie Maloney is VERY good!!!!

glockaviator
05-21-2012, 11:01
Putting a scope mount on a M1 Garand is possible, but complicated and less than ideal. That will be your biggest problem with a Garand. Also, semi-autos are a little harder to get to cycle correctly with ammo. Some ammo wont work. Don't use friends reloads. If you reload, make sure you reload for your Garand. They have some issues with loading your own ammo. Not insurmountable.

CBennett
05-21-2012, 11:24
Putting a scope mount on a M1 Garand is possible, but complicated and less than ideal. That will be your biggest problem with a Garand. Also, semi-autos are a little harder to get to cycle correctly with ammo. Some ammo wont work. Don't use friends reloads. If you reload, make sure you reload for your Garand. They have some issues with loading your own ammo. Not insurmountable.

If i get the M1(which looks likely at this point) I dont plan to scope it.

Wyoming
05-21-2012, 20:10
If i get the M1(which looks likely at this point) I dont plan to scope it.

:agree: