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Kingarthurhk
05-18-2012, 19:41
http://www.greatcontroversyonline.com/listen.html

This link will let you listen to the book online.

http://www.ellenwhiteaudio.org/en/gc/

This link will allow you to listen online or download the zip file to burn to CD and listen that way, or listen to the chapters at your leisure on your comptuer.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25833/25833-pdf.pdf

This link will allow you to read it online

http://www.great-controversy.org/StoryGrContro-sm.pdf

This link should allow you to read it online and save it to read for later in a PDF format.

juggy4711
05-18-2012, 19:53
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRU-N-jTl0ANlhb7EWq0vpctoGZSmpWIA6OHYXAKNGJ0Ccua8Kj

Vic Hays
05-18-2012, 22:34
http://www.greatcontroversyonline.com/listen.html

This link will let you listen to the book online.

http://www.ellenwhiteaudio.org/en/gc/

This link will allow you to listen online or download the zip file to burn to CD and listen that way, or listen to the chapters at your leisure on your comptuer.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/25833/25833-pdf.pdf

This link will allow you to read it online

http://www.great-controversy.org/StoryGrContro-sm.pdf

This link should allow you to read it online and save it to read for later in a PDF format.

That is just about the best historical book outlining the flow of Christianity and the battle between Christ and satan.

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 13:27
https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRU-N-jTl0ANlhb7EWq0vpctoGZSmpWIA6OHYXAKNGJ0Ccua8Kj

Have you read it?

steveksux
05-19-2012, 14:06
Wow, how long will it take to go through all these?

I never thought I'd be looking back longingly when you were posting videos "only" a couple of hours long... :tongueout::supergrin:

Randy

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 15:23
Wow, how long will it take to go through all these?

I never thought I'd be looking back longingly when you were posting videos "only" a couple of hours long... :tongueout::supergrin:

Randy

Yes, I figured out to give you whole books. I have others for you as well if you like.

steveksux
05-19-2012, 15:47
Yes, I figured out to give you whole books. I have others for you as well if you like.
Oh, I couldn't, you've done too much already.... ;)

Randy

rgregoryb
05-19-2012, 16:01
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Thats_all_folks_cl%C3%A0ssic_-Daffy_Comando_1943_-_amb_porky_%282%29.png

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 16:18
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Thats_all_folks_cl%C3%A0ssic_-Daffy_Comando_1943_-_amb_porky_%282%29.png

Have you read it?

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 16:30
http://mychristianbooks.org/

Free Kindle and PDF

FCoulter
05-19-2012, 16:51
http://mychristianbooks.org/

Free Kindle and PDF

King why not just post them all

http://www.adventaudio.org/ebooks/?page_id=139

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 17:12
King why not just post them all

http://www.adventaudio.org/ebooks/?page_id=139

Good point. But, I am trying to select the two that seem to impact this current world the most in this present age.

FCoulter
05-19-2012, 18:03
Good point. But, I am trying to select the two that seem to impact this current world the most in this present age.

Well since the Great Contra. Is so riddled with errors I dont think I would have used it as an impact to this present age.

rgregoryb
05-19-2012, 18:16
Have you read it?

Nope, and I haven't read Dianetics either some things aren't worth the time.
and if FCoulter says it is full of errors then it must be so, cause his church has the right name........SDA isn't in the Bible, but church of god is, so there!! :tongueout:

and also genocide, slavery, stoning to death..........

rgregoryb
05-19-2012, 18:18
still looking for those trans-humans though......................

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EI3qy9SO7IA/T1aOnVP3vhI/AAAAAAAAD2I/eZuMrCTZuUE/s200/laserbaby.jpg

Vic Hays
05-19-2012, 18:18
Well since the Great Contra. Is so riddled with errors I dont think I would have used it as an impact to this present age.

It has been edited a couple of times and historical insertions made. I think it is pretty accurate otherwise.

Perhaps it is a compliment coming from you that it contains errors as we don't seem to agree completely on most subjects.

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 18:25
Nope, and I haven't read Dianetics either some things aren't worth the time.
and if FCoulter says it is full of errors then it must be so, cause his church has the right name........SDA isn't in the Bible, but church of god is, so there!! :tongueout:

and also genocide, slavery, stoning to death..........

So, you came to a conclusion about something without viewing the material in question. Why is that?

rgregoryb
05-19-2012, 18:31
So, you came to a conclusion about something without viewing the material in question. Why is that?

I'm psychopathic or is it psychotic?

and Fred said it's full of errors

rgregoryb
05-19-2012, 18:39
And as Paul states:
1 Timothy 2:11-12
New International Version (NIV)
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet.

How can you possibly put any trust in the words of a female prophet? Is it not unbiblical?

Wouldn't this alone discredit anything to do with SDA?

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 19:16
And as Paul states:
1 Timothy 2:11-12
New International Version (NIV)
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

How can you possibly put any trust in the words of a female prophet? Is it not unbiblical?

Wouldn't this alone discredit anything to do with SDA?

It seems you really don't know your bible very well if you think a female can't be a prophet.

Judges 4:4-10, "
<sup class="versenum">4 </sup>Now Deborah, <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6604I))'></sup> a prophet, <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6604J))'></sup> the wife of Lappidoth, was leading<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-6604a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-6604a)]</sup> Israel at that time. <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>She held court <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6605K))'></sup> under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6605L))'></sup> and Bethel <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6605M))'></sup> in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went up to her to have their disputes decided. <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>She sent for Barak son of Abinoam <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606N))'></sup> from Kedesh <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606O))'></sup> in Naphtali and said to him, “The Lord, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606P))'></sup> and Zebulun <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606Q))'></sup> and lead them up to Mount Tabor. <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606R))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>I will lead Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6607S))'></sup> army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6607T))'></sup> and give him into your hands. <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6607U))'></sup> ’”

<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Barak said to her, “If you go with me, I will go; but if you don’t go with me, I won’t go.”

<sup class="versenum">9 </sup>“Certainly I will go with you,” said Deborah. “But because of the course you are taking, the honor will not be yours, for the Lord will deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman.” So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh. <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6609V))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>There Barak summoned <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6610W))'></sup> Zebulun and Naphtali, and ten thousand men went up under his command. Deborah also went up with him."

2 Kings 22:14-20, "
<sup class="versenum">14</sup>[B]Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Akbor, Shaphan and Asaiah went to speak to the prophet <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10160S))'></sup> Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the New Quarter.

<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>She said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me, <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to bring disaster <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10162T))'></sup> on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10162U))'></sup> the king of Judah has read. <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>Because they have forsaken <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10163V))'></sup> me and burned incense to other gods and aroused my anger by all the idols their hands have made,<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-10163a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20kings%2022&version=NIV#fen-NIV-10163a)]</sup> my anger will burn against this place and will not be quenched.’ <sup class="versenum">18 </sup>Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10164W))'></sup> of the Lord, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard: <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Because your heart was responsive and you humbled <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10165X))'></sup> yourself before the Lord when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people—that they would become a curse<sup class="footnote" value=''>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20kings%2022&version=NIV#fen-NIV-10165b)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10165Y))'></sup> and be laid waste <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10165Z))'></sup> —and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>Therefore I will gather you to your ancestors, and you will be buried in peace. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10166AA))'></sup> Your eyes <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10166AB))'></sup> will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place.’”
So they took her answer back to the king."

2 Chronicles 34:22-28, "
<sup class="versenum">22</sup>[B]Hilkiah and those the king had sent with him<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11956b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11956b)]</sup> went to speak to the prophet <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11956Y))'></sup> Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tokhath,<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11956c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11956c)]</sup> the son of Hasrah,<sup class="footnote" value='[d (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11956d)]'>[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11956d)]</sup> keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the New Quarter.

<sup class="versenum">23 </sup>She said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me, <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to bring disaster <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11958Z))'></sup> on this place and its people <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11958AA))'></sup> —all the curses <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11958AB))'></sup> written in the book that has been read in the presence of the king of Judah. <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Because they have forsaken me <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11959AC))'></sup> and burned incense to other gods and aroused my anger by all that their hands have made,<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11959e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11959e)]</sup> my anger will be poured out on this place and will not be quenched.’ <sup class="versenum">26 </sup>Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard: <sup class="versenum">27 </sup>Because your heart was responsive <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11961AD))'></sup> and you humbled <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11961AE))'></sup> yourself before God when you heard what he spoke against this place and its people, and because you humbled yourself before me and tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the Lord. <sup class="versenum">28 </sup>Now I will gather you to your ancestors, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11962AF))'></sup> and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place and on those who live here.’” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11962AG))'></sup>
So they took her answer back to the king."

Isaiah 8:1-4, "The Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17809A))'></sup> and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.”<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-17809a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%208&version=NIV#fen-NIV-17809a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17809B))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>So I called in Uriah <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17810C))'></sup> the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberekiah as reliable witnesses <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17810D))'></sup> for me. <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>Then I made love to the prophetess, <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17811E))'></sup> and she conceived and gave birth to a son. <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17811F))'></sup> And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17811G))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>For before the boy knows <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17812H))'></sup> how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17812I))'></sup> and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”

Luke 2:36-38, "<sup class="versenum">36 </sup>There was also a prophet, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25010AD))'></sup> Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, <sup class="versenum">37 </sup>and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-25011e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-25011e)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25011AE))'></sup> She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25011AF))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem."

Acts 21:7-9, "<sup> </sup>We continued our voyage from Tyre <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27672G))'></sup> and landed at Ptolemais, where we greeted the brothers and sisters <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27672H))'></sup> and stayed with them for a day. <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27673I))'></sup> and stayed at the house of Philip <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27673J))'></sup> the evangelist, <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27673K))'></sup> one of the Seven. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied."

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 19:16
And as Paul states:
1 Timothy 2:11-12
New International Version (NIV)
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

How can you possibly put any trust in the words of a female prophet? Is it not unbiblical?

Wouldn't this alone discredit anything to do with SDA?

It seems you really don't know your bible very well if you think a female can't be a prophet.

Judges 4:4-10, "
<sup class="versenum">4 </sup>Now Deborah, <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6604I))'></sup> a prophet, <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6604J))'></sup> the wife of Lappidoth, was leading<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-6604a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+4&version=NIV#fen-NIV-6604a)]</sup> Israel at that time. <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>She held court <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6605K))'></sup> under the Palm of Deborah between Ramah <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6605L))'></sup> and Bethel <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6605M))'></sup> in the hill country of Ephraim, and the Israelites went up to her to have their disputes decided. <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>She sent for Barak son of Abinoam <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606N))'></sup> from Kedesh <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606O))'></sup> in Naphtali and said to him, “The Lord, the God of Israel, commands you: ‘Go, take with you ten thousand men of Naphtali <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606P))'></sup> and Zebulun <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606Q))'></sup> and lead them up to Mount Tabor. <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6606R))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>I will lead Sisera, the commander of Jabin’s <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6607S))'></sup> army, with his chariots and his troops to the Kishon River <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6607T))'></sup> and give him into your hands. <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6607U))'></sup> ’”

<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Barak said to her, “If you go with me, I will go; but if you don’t go with me, I won’t go.”

<sup class="versenum">9 </sup>“Certainly I will go with you,” said Deborah. “But because of the course you are taking, the honor will not be yours, for the Lord will deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman.” So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh. <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6609V))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>There Barak summoned <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-6610W))'></sup> Zebulun and Naphtali, and ten thousand men went up under his command. Deborah also went up with him."

2 Kings 22:14-20, "
<sup class="versenum">14</sup>Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Akbor, Shaphan and Asaiah went to speak to the prophet <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10160S))'></sup> Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the New Quarter.

<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>She said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me, <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to bring disaster <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10162T))'></sup> on this place and its people, according to everything written in the book <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10162U))'></sup> the king of Judah has read. <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>Because they have forsaken <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10163V))'></sup> me and burned incense to other gods and aroused my anger by all the idols their hands have made,<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-10163a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20kings%2022&version=NIV#fen-NIV-10163a)]</sup> my anger will burn against this place and will not be quenched.’ <sup class="versenum">18 </sup>Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10164W))'></sup> of the Lord, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard: <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Because your heart was responsive and you humbled <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10165X))'></sup> yourself before the Lord when you heard what I have spoken against this place and its people—that they would become a curse<sup class="footnote" value=''>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20kings%2022&version=NIV#fen-NIV-10165b)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10165Y))'></sup> and be laid waste <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10165Z))'></sup> —and because you tore your robes and wept in my presence, I also have heard you, declares the Lord. <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>Therefore I will gather you to your ancestors, and you will be buried in peace. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10166AA))'></sup> Your eyes <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-10166AB))'></sup> will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place.’”
So they took her answer back to the king."

2 Chronicles 34:22-28, "
<sup class="versenum">22</sup>[B]Hilkiah and those the king had sent with him<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11956b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11956b)]</sup> went to speak to the prophet <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11956Y))'></sup> Huldah, who was the wife of Shallum son of Tokhath,<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11956c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11956c)]</sup> the son of Hasrah,<sup class="footnote" value='[d (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11956d)]'>[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11956d)]</sup> keeper of the wardrobe. She lived in Jerusalem, in the New Quarter.

<sup class="versenum">23 </sup>She said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: Tell the man who sent you to me, <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>‘This is what the Lord says: I am going to bring disaster <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11958Z))'></sup> on this place and its people <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11958AA))'></sup> —all the curses <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11958AB))'></sup> written in the book that has been read in the presence of the king of Judah. <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Because they have forsaken me <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11959AC))'></sup> and burned incense to other gods and aroused my anger by all that their hands have made,<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-11959e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Chronicles%2034&version=NIV#fen-NIV-11959e)]</sup> my anger will be poured out on this place and will not be quenched.’ <sup class="versenum">26 </sup>Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of the Lord, ‘This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says concerning the words you heard: <sup class="versenum">27 </sup>Because your heart was responsive <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11961AD))'></sup> and you humbled <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11961AE))'></sup> yourself before God when you heard what he spoke against this place and its people, and because you humbled yourself before me and tore your robes and wept in my presence, I have heard you, declares the Lord. <sup class="versenum">28 </sup>Now I will gather you to your ancestors, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11962AF))'></sup> and you will be buried in peace. Your eyes will not see all the disaster I am going to bring on this place and on those who live here.’” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-11962AG))'></sup>
So they took her answer back to the king."

Isaiah 8:1-4, "The Lord said to me, “Take a large scroll <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17809A))'></sup> and write on it with an ordinary pen: Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz.”<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-17809a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%208&version=NIV#fen-NIV-17809a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17809B))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>So I called in Uriah <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17810C))'></sup> the priest and Zechariah son of Jeberekiah as reliable witnesses <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17810D))'></sup> for me. <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>Then I made love to the prophetess, <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17811E))'></sup> and she conceived and gave birth to a son. <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17811F))'></sup> And the Lord said to me, “Name him Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz. <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17811G))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>For before the boy knows <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17812H))'></sup> how to say ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17812I))'></sup> and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”

Luke 2:36-38, "<sup class="versenum">36 </sup>There was also a prophet, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25010AD))'></sup> Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, <sup class="versenum">37 </sup>and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-25011e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-25011e)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25011AE))'></sup> She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-25011AF))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem."

Acts 21:7-9, "<sup> </sup>We continued our voyage from Tyre <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27672G))'></sup> and landed at Ptolemais, where we greeted the brothers and sisters <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27672H))'></sup> and stayed with them for a day. <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27673I))'></sup> and stayed at the house of Philip <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27673J))'></sup> the evangelist, <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-27673K))'></sup> one of the Seven. <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>[B]He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied."

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 19:18
I'm psychopathic or is it psychotic?

and Fred said it's full of errors

I had no idea you were a Fredite. Any rate, read it, then come and tell us the errors you have found.

juggy4711
05-19-2012, 22:33
Have you read it?

No I haven't. I read the Book of Mormon which was enough for me to realize that despite one having scholarly knowledge of the bible they can be full of it. If you want me to believe that Christians misunderstood and got their religion wrong for 1800+ years and that some lady suddenly got it right, I am going to call BS. SDA and Mormonism rate with Scientology as far as I am concerned.

What I do not get is how otherwise rationale people can suspend all reason to believe what ever insane tenet their religion requires.

I understand that religion can help folks be better people, but when it goes so far as to claim their understanding of the accounts are gospel truth, I seriously question their sanity.

ETA I will try to make it a point to do so.

Kingarthurhk
05-19-2012, 22:41
No I haven't. I read the Book of Mormon which was enough for me to realize that despite one having scholarly knowledge of the bible they can be full of it. If you want me to believe that Christians misunderstood and got their religion wrong for 1800+ years and that some lady suddenly got it right, I am going to call BS. SDA and Mormonism rate with Scientology as far as I am concerned.

What I do not get is how otherwise rationale people can suspend all reason to believe what ever insane tenet their religion requires.

I understand that religion can help folks be better people, but when it goes so far as to claim their understanding of the accounts are gospel truth, I seriously question their sanity.

ETA I will try to make it a point to do so.

Actually, the book is based on history and scripture. It's premise is to discuss the origin of the conflict of good and evil from its origin to its completion. It deals with the biblical and historical account and then deals with biblical prophecy.

My thought, if you are going to criticize something, at least know what you are talking about in the first place.

juggy4711
05-20-2012, 00:46
Actually, the book is based on history and scripture. It's premise is to discuss the origin of the conflict of good and evil from its origin to its completion. It deals with the biblical and historical account and then deals with biblical prophecy.

My thought, if you are going to criticize something, at least know what you are talking about in the first place.

Scripture is relevant to who is reading it. Considering Satan is not a fallen angel according to the Jews that wrote the OT rather an Angel serving the purpose for which God created it, the whole good vs evil thing doesn't take on the same light.

As for history and scripture so was the Book of Mormon, have you read it? It was without a doubt written by someone with scholarly knowledge of the Bible.

It might help if you had a proper understanding of the OT based on the original Hebrew rather than whatever you thought it should mean to justify what ever it is you think some lady in the 1800s got right.

ted1
05-20-2012, 00:53
Hello

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 01:04
Scripture is relevant to who is reading it. Considering Satan is not a fallen angel according to the Jews that wrote the OT rather an Angel serving the purpose for which God created it, the whole good vs evil thing doesn't take on the same light.

As for history and scripture so was the Book of Mormon, have you read it? It was without a doubt written by someone with scholarly knowledge of the Bible.

It might help if you had a proper understanding of the OT based on the original Hebrew rather than whatever you thought it should mean to justify what ever it is you think some lady in the 1800s got right.

I guess that would make sense if I were a Jew, but I am not.

However, who do you think is being mentioned here in Isaiah 14:12-15, "How you have fallen <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17941AH))'></sup> from heaven,
morning star, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17941AI))'></sup> son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations! <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17941AJ))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>You said in your heart,
“I will ascend <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AK))'></sup> to the heavens;
I will raise my throne <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AL))'></sup>
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AM))'></sup>
on the utmost heights <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AN))'></sup> of Mount Zaphon.<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-17942b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+14&version=NIV#fen-NIV-17942b)]</sup>
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17943AO))'></sup>
I will make myself like the Most High.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17943AP))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>But you are brought down <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17944AQ))'></sup> to the realm of the dead, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17944AR))'></sup>
to the depths <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17944AS))'></sup> of the pit. "....?

Ezekiel 28:11-19, "The word of the Lord came to me: <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>“Son of man, take up a lament <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21170S))'></sup> concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21170T))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>You were in Eden, <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171U))'></sup>
the garden of God; <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171V))'></sup>
every precious stone <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171W))'></sup> adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171X))'></sup> and beryl.<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-21171b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171b)]</sup>
Your settings and mountings<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-21171c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171c)]</sup> were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171Y))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>You were anointed <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21172Z))'></sup> as a guardian cherub, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21172AA))'></sup>
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
<sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21174AB))'></sup>
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21174AC))'></sup>
from among the fiery stones.
<sup class="versenum">17 </sup>Your heart became proud <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21175AD))'></sup>
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21175AE))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">18 </sup>By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21176AF))'></sup> come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21176AG))'></sup> on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21176AH))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">19 </sup>All the nations who knew you
are appalled <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21177AI))'></sup> at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21177AJ))'></sup> ’”

Jude 1:6, "<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 01:04
Scripture is relevant to who is reading it. Considering Satan is not a fallen angel according to the Jews that wrote the OT rather an Angel serving the purpose for which God created it, the whole good vs evil thing doesn't take on the same light.

As for history and scripture so was the Book of Mormon, have you read it? It was without a doubt written by someone with scholarly knowledge of the Bible.

It might help if you had a proper understanding of the OT based on the original Hebrew rather than whatever you thought it should mean to justify what ever it is you think some lady in the 1800s got right.

I guess that would make sense if I were a Jew, but I am not.

However, who do you think is being mentioned here in Isaiah 14:12-15, "How you have fallen <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17941AH))'></sup> from heaven,
morning star, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17941AI))'></sup> son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations! <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17941AJ))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>You said in your heart,
“I will ascend <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AK))'></sup> to the heavens;
I will raise my throne <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AL))'></sup>
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AM))'></sup>
on the utmost heights <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17942AN))'></sup> of Mount Zaphon.<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-17942b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+14&version=NIV#fen-NIV-17942b)]</sup>
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17943AO))'></sup>
I will make myself like the Most High.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17943AP))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>But you are brought down <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17944AQ))'></sup> to the realm of the dead, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17944AR))'></sup>
to the depths <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17944AS))'></sup> of the pit. "....?

Ezekiel 28:11-19, "The word of the Lord came to me: <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>“Son of man, take up a lament <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21170S))'></sup> concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21170T))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>You were in Eden, <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171U))'></sup>
the garden of God; <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171V))'></sup>
every precious stone <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171W))'></sup> adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171X))'></sup> and beryl.<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-21171b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171b)]</sup>
Your settings and mountings<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-21171c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2028&version=NIV#fen-NIV-21171c)]</sup> were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21171Y))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>You were anointed <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21172Z))'></sup> as a guardian cherub, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21172AA))'></sup>
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
<sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21174AB))'></sup>
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21174AC))'></sup>
from among the fiery stones.
<sup class="versenum">17 </sup>Your heart became proud <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21175AD))'></sup>
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21175AE))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">18 </sup>By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21176AF))'></sup> come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21176AG))'></sup> on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21176AH))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">19 </sup>All the nations who knew you
are appalled <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21177AI))'></sup> at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-21177AJ))'></sup> ’”

Jude 1:6, "<sup class="versenum">6 </sup>And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day."

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 01:09
Hello

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Hello, Ted.

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 06:46
It has been edited a couple of times and historical insertions made. I think it is pretty accurate otherwise.

Perhaps it is a compliment coming from you that it contains errors as we don't seem to agree completely on most subjects.

I dont exspect us to agree completely on most subjects when the SDA's cant even agree completely. There are alot of good SDA's that are keeping all of Gods commands and annual Sabbaths now.

Here are the major differences the Church of God and SDA differ on.
http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/sda/COGandSDA.html

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 06:50
I had no idea you were a Fredite. Any rate, read it, then come and tell us the errors you have found.


http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/gc1.htm

Vic Hays
05-20-2012, 15:20
http://www.ellenwhiteexposed.com/gc1.htm

Fred, you couldn't even hold a candle to Sam Bacchiocchi, but any reasonable person examining his criticism of the Great Controversy can see that he disagrees with some of the semantics. That doesn't necessarily make Bacchiocchi correct.
As I mentioned earlier Ellen White did not add these historical notes to the Great Controversy. These historical dates etc. were edited in.

Go to the 1884 version of the Great Controversy if you want to critique what Ellen White wrote or you are just spreading slander.

Vic Hays
05-20-2012, 15:28
I dont exspect us to agree completely on most subjects when the SDA's cant even agree completely. There are alot of good SDA's that are keeping all of Gods commands and annual Sabbaths now.

Here are the major differences the Church of God and SDA differ on.
http://www.giveshare.org/churchhistory/sda/COGandSDA.html

What you fail to understand is that the covenant includes only the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

The feast days belong to the statutes and judgments that the people were to observe in the promised land. They are ok for you to observe if you want to, but they are not obligatory.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 15:57
Fred, you couldn't even hold a candle to Sam Bacchiocchi, but any reasonable person examining his criticism of the Great Controversy can see that he disagrees with some of the semantics. That doesn't necessarily make Bacchiocchi correct.
As I mentioned earlier Ellen White did not add these historical notes to the Great Controversy. These historical dates etc. were edited in.

Go to the 1884 version of the Great Controversy if you want to critique what Ellen White wrote or you are just spreading slander.

Funny how you say I dont hold a candle to Sam Bacchiocchi, thats ok it's only your opinion, however, it is ironic that Sam Bacchiocchi wrote a book and supported the fact that SDA's should be keeping Gods Holy Days.

http://www.cogwriter.com/news/religious-news/sda-samuele-bacchiocchi-remembered/

Vic Hays
05-20-2012, 16:36
Funny how you say I dont hold a candle to Sam Bacchiocchi, thats ok it's only your opinion, however, it is ironic that Sam Bacchiocchi wrote a book and supported the fact that SDA's should be keeping Gods Holy Days.

http://www.cogwriter.com/news/religious-news/sda-samuele-bacchiocchi-remembered/


And where did Sam Bacchiocchi get his doctorate?

Apparently they didn't tell him at the Gregorian Pontifical University in Rome Italy that the Covenant was only the Ten Commandments not including the feast days. BTW I noticed that you did not have a scriptural cite for your assertion.

Here is a scriptural citation for my position:

Acts 21:20 And they, when they heard it, glorified God; and they said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of them that have believed; and they are all zealous for the law:
21:21 and they have been informed concerning thee, that thou teachest all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children neither to walk after the customs.
21:22 What is it therefore? They will certainly hear that thou art come.
21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men that have a vow on them;
21:24 these take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges for them, that they may shave their heads: and all shall know that there is no truth in the things whereof they have been informed concerning thee; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, keeping the law.
21:25 But as touching the Gentiles that have believed, we wrote, giving judgment that they should keep themselves from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what is strangled, and from fornication.

:angel:

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 17:34
And where did Sam Bacchiocchi get his doctorate?

Apparently they didn't tell him at the Gregorian Pontifical University in Rome Italy that the Covenant was only the Ten Commandments not including the feast days. BTW I noticed that you did not have a scriptural cite for your assertion.

Here is a scriptural citation for my position:

Acts 21:20 And they, when they heard it, glorified God; and they said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of them that have believed; and they are all zealous for the law:
21:21 and they have been informed concerning thee, that thou teachest all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children neither to walk after the customs.
21:22 What is it therefore? They will certainly hear that thou art come.
21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men that have a vow on them;
21:24 these take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges for them, that they may shave their heads: and all shall know that there is no truth in the things whereof they have been informed concerning thee; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, keeping the law.
21:25 But as touching the Gentiles that have believed, we wrote, giving judgment that they should keep themselves from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what is strangled, and from fornication.

:angel:

So you want a scriptual citation for my position on Gods Holy Days?

Here ill give you a whole bunch of them in a very nice book in any format for your enjoyment.

http://www.cbcg.org/ebooks.html

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 17:41
And where did Sam Bacchiocchi get his doctorate?

Apparently they didn't tell him at the Gregorian Pontifical University in Rome Italy that the Covenant was only the Ten Commandments not including the feast days. BTW I noticed that you did not have a scriptural cite for your assertion.

:angel:

It's funny how SDA. Love Sam until it comes to his stance on Gods Holy Days. I suggest you read the many books he actually wrote on the topic, or even look up SDA's that keep Gods Holy Days. You will be surpised what you will discover. If nothing else you will see the SDA faith is split on this.

Do you know what the Bible says about a house divided?

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 17:51
So you want a scriptual citation for my position on Gods Holy Days?

Here ill give you a whole bunch of them in a very nice book in any format for your enjoyment.

http://www.cbcg.org/ebooks.html

http://www.ceremoniallaw.com/

1 Corinthians 1:10-12, "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-28374a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28374a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28374T))'></sup> in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28374U))'></sup> but that you be perfectly united <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28374V))'></sup> in mind and thought. <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28375W))'></sup> have informed me that there are quarrels among you. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28376X))'></sup>another, “I follow Apollos”; <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28376Y))'></sup>another, “I follow Cephas<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-28376b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28376b)]</sup>”; <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28376Z))'></sup>still another, “I follow Christ.”

We follow Jesus Christ. We are called Seventh-Day, beause we keep the Seventh-Day Sabbath. We are called Adventists because we look toward the Advent of Jesus Christ.

We are not the Church of Ellen White. You don't have to read a word of anything she wrote and still be an SDA. It is helpful material. That is why it was presented.

I looked at your link. Why are you the Church of Fred Coulter? Your home page is all about Fred.

Ours isn't all about White.

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 17:58
http://www.ceremoniallaw.com/

1 Corinthians 1:10-12, "I appeal to you, brothers and sisters,<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-28374a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28374a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28374T))'></sup> in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another in what you say and that there be no divisions among you, <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28374U))'></sup> but that you be perfectly united <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28374V))'></sup> in mind and thought. <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28375W))'></sup> have informed me that there are quarrels among you. <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28376X))'></sup>another, “I follow Apollos”; <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28376Y))'></sup>another, “I follow Cephas<sup class="footnote" value='[b (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-28376b)]'>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1&version=NIV#fen-NIV-28376b)]</sup>”; <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-28376Z))'></sup>still another, “I follow Christ.”

We follow Jesus Christ. We are called Seventh-Day, beause we keep the Seventh-Day Sabbath. We are called Adventists because we look toward the Advent of Jesus Christ.

We are not the Church of Ellen White. You don't have to read a word of anything she wrote and still be an SDA. It is helpful material. That is why it was presented.

I looked at your link. Why are you the Church of Fred Coulter? Your home page is all about Fred.

Ours isn't all about White.

You are the church that chooses to pick and choose which of Gods commands suit yourselves.

I think you went to the wrong website if you think the Christian Biblical Church of God is about anything other than the God Family.

Now I wont go on showing you how most SDA cant tie their shoes unless Ellen White approved it, because it is unfruitful.


Enjoy

http://www.cbcg.org/

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 18:23
You are the church that chooses to pick and choose which of Gods commands suit yourselves.

I think you went to the wrong website if you think the Christian Biblical Church of God is about anything other than the God Family.

Now I wont go on showing you how most SDA cant tie their shoes unless Ellen White approved it, because it is unfruitful.


Enjoy

http://www.cbcg.org/

I went to the homepage. It is all about Fred. Also, I would like to see how a dead woman could tie my shoes. However, if someone would like to take on that challenge, my next to do project is to replace my laces with 550 cord. I suspect that is a relatively new invention comparitvely.

FCoulter
05-20-2012, 18:35
I went to the homepage. It is all about Fred. Also, I would like to see how a dead woman could tie my shoes. However, if someone would like to take on that challenge, my next to do project is to replace my laces with 550 cord. I suspect that is a relatively new invention comparitvely.

I think your next challenge should be to show me where the term ceremonial law is in the Bible since you posted a whole link claiming Gods Holy Days are part of " ceremonial law "

Brasso
05-20-2012, 19:15
He doesn't even understand what he posted from Acts. He's not going to give up on the 10 Commandment thing either, despite that he can't find a single passage in the Bible saying what those commandments are.


If the gentiles aren't supposed to keep these "ceremonial" laws, then what about the passages that say there is neither Jew nor Greek but one new man? What about the commandments in the Torah that say if gentiles join with Israel they are to observe the same laws? Why would you think that gentiles only need to keep 4 commandments? What about the "10 Commandments"? Are they only for the Jews?

Your whole theology contradicts the Bible on several levels.

If you would put those passages in Acts back into context you would see that the commandments weren't necessary for salvation. That's it. That's the whole context. Historical accounts are plentiful that tell us the early "church" kept the entire Torah and were considered a sect of Judaism. As it should be since the Messiah didn't come to start a new religion. And as God's Word made flesh, couldn't change them even if He wanted to, as it would make Him a liar and would negate His very existence. Not to mention making Him a sinner and not the Messiah.

Wake up. Ellen White was NOT a prophet. She got a couple of things right. And a whole lot of things wrong. If she had said these things 2000 years ago she would have been stoned for being a false prophet.

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 21:38
I think your next challenge should be to show me where the term ceremonial law is in the Bible since you posted a whole link claiming Gods Holy Days are part of " ceremonial law "

Actually, it was in the link provided.

Kingarthurhk
05-20-2012, 21:52
He doesn't even understand what he posted from Acts. He's not going to give up on the 10 Commandment thing either, despite that he can't find a single passage in the Bible saying what those commandments are.

Exodus 34:28, "<sup class="versenum">28 </sup>Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV1984-2525A))'></sup> without eating bread or drinking water. <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV1984-2525B))'></sup> And he wrote on the tablets <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV1984-2525C))'></sup> the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."

Deuteronomy 10:4, "<sup class="versenum">4 </sup>The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV1984-5191A))'></sup> he had proclaimed <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV1984-5191B))'></sup> to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV1984-5191C))'></sup> And the Lord gave them to me."


If the gentiles aren't supposed to keep these "ceremonial" laws, then what about the passages that say there is neither Jew nor Greek but one new man? What about the commandments in the Torah that say if gentiles join with Israel they are to observe the same laws? Why would you think that gentiles only need to keep 4 commandments? What about the "10 Commandments"? Are they only for the Jews?

There was a ceremonial sacraficial law pointing toward Jesus and His sacrifice, there was a civil law for all of Israel, and then there was the moral law written by the Hand of God Himself, as the Bible clearly says-The TEN COMMANDMENTS.


Your whole theology contradicts the Bible on several levels.

Not sure which person you are talking to.


If you would put those passages in Acts back into context you would see that the commandments weren't necessary for salvation. That's it. That's the whole context. Historical accounts are plentiful that tell us the early "church" kept the entire Torah and were considered a sect of Judaism. As it should be since the Messiah didn't come to start a new religion. And as God's Word made flesh, couldn't change them even if He wanted to, as it would make Him a liar and would negate His very existence. Not to mention making Him a sinner and not the Messiah.

You are right on two accounts. The Ten Commandments are forever. As part of the new covenenant they were written by God on our hearts and minds.

Jeremiah 31:33-34, "“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds <sup class="crossreference" value='(CS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19725CS))'></sup>
and write it on their hearts. <sup class="crossreference" value='(CT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19725CT))'></sup>
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. <sup class="crossreference" value='(CU (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19725CU))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">34 </sup>No longer will they teach <sup class="crossreference" value='(CV (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19726CV))'></sup> their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know <sup class="crossreference" value='(CW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19726CW))'></sup> me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive <sup class="crossreference" value='(CX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19726CX))'></sup> their wickedness
and will remember their sins <sup class="crossreference" value='(CY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-19726CY))'></sup> no more.”


Wake up. Ellen White was NOT a prophet. She got a couple of things right. And a whole lot of things wrong. If she had said these things 2000 years ago she would have been stoned for being a false prophet.

And 2000 years ago you would have done it.

Matthew 23:29-32, "<sup class="versenum">29 </sup>“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23948AC))'></sup> and decorate the graves of the righteous. <sup class="versenum">30 </sup>And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ <sup class="versenum">31 </sup>So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23950AD))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">32 </sup>Go ahead, then, and complete <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23951AE))'></sup> what your ancestors started!"

Vic Hays
05-20-2012, 22:42
It's funny how SDA. Love Sam until it comes to his stance on Gods Holy Days. I suggest you read the many books he actually wrote on the topic, or even look up SDA's that keep Gods Holy Days. You will be surpised what you will discover. If nothing else you will see the SDA faith is split on this.

Do you know what the Bible says about a house divided?

Don't you like the Bible? The Bible is the rule of faith and practice. The feast days do not apply to the Gentiles. They never have. The feast days came 430 years after the Covenant. The Gentiles are under the covenant promised to Abraham.


Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Vic Hays
05-20-2012, 22:57
I think your next challenge should be to show me where the term ceremonial law is in the Bible since you posted a whole link claiming Gods Holy Days are part of " ceremonial law "

Fred

Just because those words are not used doesn't mean that it didn't exist separately.

THE Ten Commandments were the covenant written in stone. The Book of the Law was separate at least according to the Bible.

The Bible speaks directly to your question in at least two places.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Collosians 2:14 Blotting out the hand-writing of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
2:15 And having despoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy-day, or or the new-moon, or of the sabbaths :
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Brasso
05-21-2012, 06:35
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


The Law of the Tabernacle. That is the only thing that was added. Abraham already kept the Torah.

Brasso
05-21-2012, 06:42
Exodus 34:28, "28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments."

Deuteronomy 10:4, "4 The Lord wrote on these tablets what he had written before, the Ten Commandments he had proclaimed to you on the mountain, out of the fire, on the day of the assembly. And the Lord gave them to me."

And where does it list these commandments and say that these were written on the tablets? Nowhere.

The only 10 things that are ever listed as commandments to Moses are the 10 Components of the Tabernacle. God even tells Moses which men He as given him to help build it. All of this right before Moses is given the tablets.

When God spoke to the people on the mountain He spoke 17 commandments before pausing and finishing up with just Moses. Not 10. And the people agreed to the entire Torah, not just 10 parts of it. Even those 10 parts are the chapter headings of the rest of laws. It's the Levitical Priests and Tabernacle that were added to the Abrahamic Covenant.

Adam and Eve had the Testimony of animal skins. Abraham had the Testimony of the "parts". We have the Testimony of Yeshua's blood. What was the Testimony of Moses? 10 Commandments? Yep, just not the ones you seem to think they are. The Testimony is always about the blood. ALWAYS !!!!! You cannot approach God without the shedding of blood for your sins. Even the Hebrew word for sacrifice means "to draw near".

The Tablets of the Testimony went inside the Ark of the Testimony, which went inside the Tabernacle of the Testimony, and all are about blood.

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 08:15
Brasso,Vic and King arent interested in the truth. They are still blinded by the ways the seems right to man,but in the end are the wys of death.

I am happy that many SDA's have opened their eyes and hearts and are obeying God and keeping all His Sabbaths, not just the ones they chose to make them stand out and get a pat on their backs.
Sam Bacch. Made great strides in the SDA community, they love him for his stance on many things, and ignore him on his stance on Gods Holy Days. Atleast he was honest enough that when challenged he studied Gods word with a open mind,and in the end changed his view on some major issues.

Vic Hays
05-21-2012, 08:39
Brasso,Vic and King arent interested in the truth. They are still blinded by the ways the seems right to man,but in the end are the wys of death.

I am happy that many SDA's have opened their eyes and hearts and are obeying God and keeping all His Sabbaths, not just the ones they chose to make them stand out and get a pat on their backs.
Sam Bacch. Made great strides in the SDA community, they love him for his stance on many things, and ignore him on his stance on Gods Holy Days. Atleast he was honest enough that when challenged he studied Gods word with a open mind,and in the end changed his view on some major issues.

Fred

Is this how you win friends and influence people? :upeyes:

The Word of God is Truth. You haven't answered the Bible texts that I pointed out in post 45 and 46. You have just made some slanderous accusations of no substance.

This thread is about the Great Controversy not the feast days. Start a new thread if you want to discuss the feast days.

I really am surprised that you have any following at all.

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 09:07
Don't you like the Bible? The Bible is the rule of faith and practice. The feast days do not apply to the Gentiles. They never have. The feast days came 430 years after the Covenant. The Gentiles are under the covenant promised to Abraham.


Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Ok since you asked, I will address these.

Is the Law of God a Curse?
This devious approach described by Isaiah causes most Protestants to completely misunderstand such critical passages as Galatians 3:13: “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of
the law, having become a curse for us [to save us from our sins] (for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’).” Typically, they violate this verse, misreading it as if it meant, “Christ has redeemed us from the law which is a curse.” Such an absurd reading is completely incorrect and without foundation— because THE LAW OF GOD IS NOT A CURSE!
The truth is that the perfect law of God is a wonderful blessing— not a curse! Sin is the curse! Obedience to the laws and commandments of God results in numerous blessings (Deut. 28:1-14; Lev. 26:1-13). Sin—the transgression of the law (I John 3:4)—results in curses (Deut. 28:15-68; Lev. 26:13-45). Christ has redeemed us not from the law itself, but from the curse of breaking the law—the very curse we brought on ourselves because of our sins. He provides forgiveness and redemption through His perfect sacrifice and shed blood—redeeming us from the death penalty, which is the curse of breaking the law. He has not redeemed us from keeping the law of God—as if one no longer has an obligation to keep the laws and commandments of God.

Moses was inspired by God to write this concerning the law: “And now, O Israel, hearken to the statutes and to the judgments which I teach you, in order to do them, so that you may live and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers gives to you. You shall not add to the word which I command you; neither shall you take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you” (Deut. 4:1-2).

The children of Israel were to keep the commandments of God so that they might live with God’s blessings. Thus, God’s laws are obviously not a curse. How can Protestants possibly believe that Jesus abolished the entire law—“nailing it to the cross”—when God commanded the children of Israel not to add to it or diminish anything from it? (Also see Deuteronomy 12:32 and similar references.)

so that you might do them in the land where you go to possess it, that you might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you, and your son, and your son’s son, all the days of your life, and so that your days may be prolonged. Hear therefore, O Israel, and be diligent to observe it, so that it may be well with you, and that you may greatly multiply, as the LORD God of our fathers has promised you, in the land that flows with milk and honey” (Deut. 4:39-40; 5:32-33; 6:1-3).
With these scriptures in mind, we need to ask: What is a converted person’s attitude toward the laws and commandments of God? Does the Lawgiver reject, despise and ridicule His own laws? Absolutely not! Since truly converted people have the laws and commandments written in their hearts and minds (Heb. 10:16), they will love them, think on them and live by them in the spirit of the law (Rom. 7:6)

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 09:12
In fact, the book of Galatians is one of the most universally misinterpreted and misconstrued books of the New Testament. While it is beyond the scope of this Appendix to give a complete commentary on Paul’s epistle to the Galatians, there are four pressing problems in Galatians two and three which should be addressed:
First, the Jews had imposed specific circumcision requirements— before the advent of Christianity—upon Gentile proselytes in order for them to attend a synagogue. Jesus, however, revealed that true circumcision was spiritual, accomplished through that true circumcision was spiritual, accomplished through conversion and the receiving of the Holy Spirit. This circumcision “of the heart” superseded the requirement for physical circumcision (Acts 15; Rom. 2:25-29). Therefore, physical circumcision was no longer a requirement imposed upon Gentile converts to Christianity.
Second, Paul’s rebuke of Peter, Barnabas, and the circumcision party from Jerusalem centered around traditional laws of Judaism which forbade Jews from keeping company with or eating with Gentiles. This instance was not a question concerning God’s laws and commandments, because the Old Testament never commanded such separation of Jews and Gentiles.
Third—in reference to “the law” in Galatians three—Paul was comparing God’s covenant with Abraham and New Covenant justification by faith through grace to the “works of law” required under Judaism and its temple rituals.
Fourth, in Galatians three, most Protestants completely misunderstand verse 13, which reads, “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us [to save us from our sins] (for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree’).” They misread it as follows: “Christ has redeemed us from the law which is a curse.” Such a reading is totally absurd and completely incorrect because THE LAW OF GOD IS NOT A CURSE!

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 09:18
Fred

Just because those words are not used doesn't mean that it didn't exist separately.

THE Ten Commandments were the covenant written in stone. The Book of the Law was separate at least according to the Bible.

The Bible speaks directly to your question in at least two places.

Collosians 2:14 Blotting out the hand-writing of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
2:15 And having despoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in food, or in drink, or in respect of a holy-day, or or the new-moon, or of the sabbaths :
2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Colossians 2:14, 16-17, and stems from an extremely poor translation of the Greek text. Unfortunately, this particular misunderstanding has led millions to believe that all the laws and commandments were nailed to the cross when Jesus was crucified. As in the case of Galatians Four, we will notice that the Protestants’ false interpretation is exactly the opposite of what Paul actually wrote and meant.
First, we will examine the KJV translation of each of these key passages, beginning with verse 14: “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”
From this obscure translation, people presume that the phrase “handwriting of ordinances” constitutes the laws and commandments of God. Therefore, they assume incorrectly and conclude that the Ten Commandments were nailed to the cross.
In the Greek, “handwriting of ordinances” is chriographon tois dogmasin—which literally means “handwriting in decrees or dogmas.” In the New Testament, dogma always refers to “decrees” written by men (Luke 2:1; Acts 16:4; 17:7; Eph. 2:15). Nowhere in the entirety of the Bible does dogma, “decrees,” refer to any part of the law of God. Therefore, this phrase in verse 14 has nothing to do with biblical law.
But what does the expression “handwriting of ordinances” actually mean? As we will see, the phrase refers to a written account of one’s sins, called “a note of debt.” In his epical book The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop writes concerning this pagan, Greek religious practice, which the converts in Colosse had undoubtedly formerly practiced (the practice was also found in ancient Chinese religion): “A work of some note on morals, called Merits and Demerits Examined, [describes how] a man is directed to keep a [written] debtor and creditor account with himself of the acts of each day, and at the end of the year to wind it up [in summary]. If the balance is in his favor, it serves as the foundation of a stock of merits for the ensuing year; and if against him, it must be liquidated by future good deeds [justification by works]. Various lists and comparative tables are given of both good and bad actions in the several relations of life; and benevolence is strongly inculcated in regard first to man, and, secondly, to the brute creation. To cause another’s death is reckoned at one hundred on the side of demerit; while a single act of charitable relief counts as one on the other side” (page 147).
Thus, the phrase in Colossians 2:14 should be translated as “note of debt against us with the decrees of our sins”—or a symbolic listing of our sins against God. Our sins and the debt of our sins were nailed to the cross when Jesus Christ was crucified and died. Upon true repentance of sins to God the Father, Jesus Christ blots out the “note of debt” through the remission of our sins. Jesus Christ, Who knew no sin, was made sin for us. He was nailed to the cross as a sin offering for the sins of the whole world. The “note of debt” of our sins was symbolically nailed to the cross, NOT the commandments of God which stand forever.

When Col. 2:13 is included with the correct translation of verse 14, the true meaning of what Paul wrote becomes clear: “For you, who were once dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has now made alive with Him, having forgiven all your trespasses. He has blotted out the note of debt against us with the decrees of our sins, which was contrary to us; and He has taken it away, having nailed it to the cross.” Therefore, the actual meaning of these verses has nothing to do with nailing the law to the cross, as falsely believed by millions of professing Christians.
The True Meaning of Colossians 2:16-17 : The erroneous distortion of these two verses has caused Protestantism to denounce the observance of the biblical Sabbath, holy days and clean and unclean meats more than any other passage in the New Testament. Consequently, it has caused ministers and laymen alike to “rummage” through the New Testament in search of other scriptures to substantiate this misinterpretation—resulting in a myriad of additional false interpretations and beliefs that appear to bolster their practices of Sunday-keeping and observing occult holidays. When one casually reads these verses, it does give the appearance that such an interpretation may be correct—but such is not the case.
In the , Colossians 2:16 reads: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days”—verse 17—“which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
To add further confusion to this doctrinal puzzle, the New International Version savaged verse 17 with the following deliberate mistranslation: “These are a shadow of things that were to come.” In so doing, they reinforced the false idea that, since Christ has already come, the things that were “to come” have been fulfilled. Thus, they cling tenaciously to their mistaken belief that indeed “the life, death and resurrection terminated all these laws and commandments of God.”
However, the Greek preposition the NIV translators mistranslated as the English past tense phrase “were to come” is actually a present tense, articular active plural participle, toon mellontoon, which is impossible to translate as a past tense completed action. An honest translation can only reflect the present tense, continuous, ongoing meaning of “the things to come,” or “the coming things”—which can only mean the continuous unfolding of prophecy and the plan of God.
Importantly, we know the Colossian church was composed entirely of Gentile converts. Paul preached “the mystery among the Gentiles” (Col. 1:27), and refers to their spiritual circumcision of the heart through Jesus Christ—their conversion—in contrast to their physical condition of “uncircumcision” of the flesh (Col. 2:13).

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 09:19
An Analysis of Colossians 2:16-17
Here is an accurate translation of the original Greek:
Col. 2:16—“Therefore, do not allow anyone to judge you in eating or in drinking, or with regard to a festival, or new moon, or the Sabbaths”— verse 17—“which are a foreshadow of the things that are coming, but the body of Christ.”
1) The first phrase—“Therefore, do not allow anyone to judge you…”—means that because they were now converted and had changed their lives to believe and obey the gospel, and were now keeping the laws and commandments of God instead of their former pagan ways, therefore, they were not to let anyone outside the Church judge them because of their new way of life.
2) “…in eating, or in drinking…” When they were pagans they ate all meats—clean and unclean. After conversion they no longer ate unclean meats (I Tim. 4:1-5). Likewise, they no longer engaged in drunkenness as in the past, which was also part of their pagan religious practices. Now, because they had changed their ways, they were to ignore the judgments and criticisms of those outside the Church.
3) “…with regard to a festival, or new moon, or the Sabbaths…” Rather than showing that the Colossians were being judged for rejecting the festivals and Sabbaths of God, this phrase means the exact opposite. As in the case of the Galatians, as former pagans they had never observed any of the biblical festivals and Sabbaths before their conversion. Therefore, those outside the Church were not judging the Colossians because they were no longer keeping these things, rather they were judging them because after their conversion they were, indeed, keeping them. A word about “new moon.” Since this is in the singular, it refers to the calculated Hebrew Calendar, and must be referring to the Feast of Trumpets, a holy day, because the first day of the seventh month (a new moon) is the beginning date for the calculations of the Hebrew Calendar.
4) “…which are a foreshadow of the things that are coming…” This important phrase shows that true Christians—those obeying God’s way of life—will have an understanding of coming events in prophecy as the plan of God unfolds.
5) “…but the body of Christ.” This phrase can reflect two meanings. First, since the Colossian brethren were being judged by those outside the church for their new, converted conduct, any judging concerning these matters should only be done in and by the Church, which is “the body of Christ.” Second, this phrase can also mean that the reality of observing God’s Sabbath and holy days can be found only in the “body of Christ”—the Church—not from outside the Church. In other words, the true knowledge and meaning of such days can be found only in the churches of God. As Jesus said, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them [outside the Body of Christ—outside the true Church of God] it has not been given…. But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. For truly I say to you, many prophets and righteous men have desired to see what you see, and have not seen; and to hear what you hear, and have not heard” (Matt. 13:11, 16-17).

Vic Hays
05-21-2012, 13:09
He has not redeemed us from keeping the law of God—as if one no longer has an obligation to keep the laws and commandments of God.

Moses was inspired by God to write this concerning the law: “And now, O Israel, hearken to the statutes and to the judgments which I teach you, in order to do them, so that you may live and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers gives to you. You shall not add to the word which I command you; neither shall you take away from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you” (Deut. 4:1-2).


Thank you for responding with Scripture and commentary.

While you deride the ones who do not differentiate between God's Covenant Law and the Law of Moses you do the same. The Bible is not always specific on which it is speaking about. The reader is assumed to be intelligent enough to pick that out by the context.

The Book of the Law written by Moses and the Ten Commandment Law written by God are not one and the same. The Ten Commandments are God's Covenant.

The language of Collosians comes directly from Deuteronomy. The Law of Moses (the book of the law) was a witness against them (the Israelites).

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

Surely if it was important the New Testament writers would have written that the feast days were to be observed by the Gentiles who were coming into the Church. They did not and were adamant that the Gentiles not observe the Law of Moses except for a few necessary things.

Acts 21:25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written our decision that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from food offered to idols, from blood, from strangled things, and from sexual immorality.”

Acts 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
15:25 It seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay on you no greater burden than these necessary things;
15:29 That you abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Fare you well.

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 13:52
Surely if it was important the New Testament writers would have written that the feast days were to be observed by the Gentiles who were coming into the Church. They did not and were adamant that the Gentiles not observe the Law of Moses except for a few necessary things.
.

Vic, I would have thought you had readvthe New Test more carefully. The NT writers did mention Gods Holy Days being kept, even though since God said they were FOREVER He shouldnt have to keep repeating Himself. Anyways He did for you slow learners thankfully.


God's Festivals in the New Testament

1. Passover

Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:5

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: Matthew 26:2, 17-19; Mark 14:12-16; Luke 2:41-42; 22:1, 7-20; John 2:13, 23; 6:4; 13:1-30;1 Corinthians 11:23-29

*

2. Feast of Unleavened Bread

Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:6-8

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: Matthew 26:17; Mark 14:12; Luke 2:41-42, 22:1, 7; Acts 20:6; 1 Corinthians 5:6-8

*

3. Feast of Pentecost

Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:15-22

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: Acts 2:1-21; 20:16; 1 Corinthians 16:8

*

4. Feast of Trumpets*

Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:23-25

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: Matthew 24:30-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 11:15

*

5. Day of Atonement

Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:26-32

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: Acts 27:9

*

6. Feast of Tabernacles

Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:33-43

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: John 7:1-2, 8, 10, 14; Acts 18:21

*

7. Last Great Day Commanded in the Old Testament: Leviticus 23:36

Observed by Jesus Christ, the apostles or the Church in the New Testament: John chapters 7-9

*

*Although the Feast of Trumpets is not mentioned by name in the New Testament, the theme of the day—the sounding of trumpets announcing Jesus Christ's return—is mentioned by several New Testament authors as noted in the references.

Brasso
05-21-2012, 14:41
The entire context of the Gentiles not being circumcised was about the temple. Every passage of this regard is about the temple. Gentiles do not have to partake in temple sacrifice for salvation, which requires circumcision. This does not negate the commandment of circumcision itself. This is a commandment of eternity.

Gen 17:11 “And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall become a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
Gen 17:12 “And a son of eight days is circumcised by you, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or bought with silver from any foreigner who is not of your seed.
Gen 17:13 “He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your silver, has to be circumcised. So shall My covenant be in your flesh, for an everlasting covenant.

There is only one Law for the native born Israelite and the foreigner. ONE. We are grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel.

Maybe strange to us today, but we are talking about a culture and religion that was centered around temple sacrifice. Without the temple and sacrifice you were not saved. The argument wasn't about circumcision, an eternal covenant, but about circumcision and oral torah for the purpose of offering in the temple. Works of the Law=temple sacrifice.

If you want to understand galations and romans, simply substitute temple sacrifice where you see circumcision and you get it. Offering sacrifice in the temple makes Messiah of no use to you. You have fallen from grace who attempt to be justified by temple sacrifice. You are obligated to keep the whole Law ( of the temple system).

Context.

Kingarthurhk
05-21-2012, 15:06
I think your next challenge should be to show me where the term ceremonial law is in the Bible since you posted a whole link claiming Gods Holy Days are part of " ceremonial law "

So, when are you making your next wave and sin offering?

Brasso
05-21-2012, 15:29
I suggest you understand what you are talking about before asking questions like that.

The Tabernacle and Levitical Priesthood is what was added to the Torah 430 years after the covenant with Abraham. Additionally, there were sacrifices in the Abrahamic Covenant just as there will continue to be in the Millenium, which I know you don't believe in, making most of Ezekial, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Micah, and Hosea completely useless. Nevertheless, it will happen.

The false prophet Ellen White has gotten you to believe, despite the hundreds of Bible prophecies to the contrary, that there won't be a Kingdom on earth. Therefore you negate the Torah (specifically the feast days) and most of the prophets of the Bible, making them false prophets and putting Ellen White in their place. Double shame.

Kingarthurhk
05-21-2012, 15:30
I suggest you understand what you are talking about before asking questions like that.

The Tabernacle and Levitical Priesthood is what was added to the Torah 430 years after the covenant with Abraham. Additionally, there were sacrifices in the Abrahamic Covenant just as there will continue to be in the Millenium, which I know you don't believe in, making most of Ezekial, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Micah, and Hosea completely useless. Nevertheless, it will happen.

The false prophet Ellen White has gotten you to believe, despite the hundreds of Bible prophecies to the contrary, that there won't be a Kingdom on earth. Therefore you negate the Torah (specifically the feast days) and most of the prophets of the Bible, making them false prophets and putting Ellen White in their place. Double shame.

So, now you are picking and choosing from the Torah. How does that work?

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 15:49
So, now you are picking and choosing from the Torah. How does that work?

Are you serious? I dont mean to be rude,however by the statements you make and given your stance on alcohol ill am willing to say you have in the past had alcoholism. You may want to do some reading on dealing with it,then you can have the relationship with God I know you need. :)

Schabesbert
05-21-2012, 15:58
Are you serious?

Ahh, the same defense Nancy Pelosi used for the Obamacare bill.

Kingarthurhk
05-21-2012, 16:04
Are you serious? I dont mean to be rude,however by the statements you make and given your stance on alcohol ill am willing to say you have in the past had alcoholism. You may want to do some reading on dealing with it,then you can have the relationship with God I know you need. :)

Sorry, I am not joining the church of Fred. I am happy where I am. My point is, you are obligating people to ceremonies that pointed twoward Jesus, denying that scipture, which I have shown, expliciting says TEN Commandments, as simply being the same as the civil and ceremonial laws even though the later two were never written by the finger of God.

So, if you mean what you say sincerely, you should go and circumcize yourself, have a seven year period where you forgive any outstanding debsts owed you, create a citiy of refuge, and sacrifice animals to atone for sin.

Yet, you are wise enough to realize that the sacrifices pointed toward Jesus, yet you cannot realize that the ceremonial feasts did the same thing?

rgregoryb
05-21-2012, 17:59
Can't you just feel all the love?

:hearts:

and you're wondering why christianity has no appeal, well except for whatever Brasso is...he'd piss off Mother Teresa.

Vic Hays
05-21-2012, 18:26
Vic, I would have thought you had readvthe New Test more carefully. The NT writers did mention Gods Holy Days being kept, even though since God said they were FOREVER He shouldnt have to keep repeating Himself. Anyways He did for you slow learners thankfully.



I guess I must be slow because you did not address the issue of the Book of the Law and the Ten Commandments on tables of stone which are the Covenant.

Did I miss something or do you see no difference in those two?

:whistling:

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 18:37
I guess I must be slow because you did not address the issue of the Book of the Law and the Ten Commandments on tables of stone which are the Covenant.

Did I miss something or do you see no difference in those two?

:whistling:

Dancing around Vic? You made a statement that Gods Holy Days were not mentioned in the NT being kept. I proved you wrong. Care to address that first?

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 18:40
Sorry, I am not joining the church of Fred. I am happy where I am. My point is, you are obligating people to ceremonies that pointed twoward Jesus, denying that scipture, which I have shown, expliciting says TEN Commandments, as simply being the same as the civil and ceremonial laws even though the later two were never written by the finger of God.

So, if you mean what you say sincerely, you should go and circumcize yourself, have a seven year period where you forgive any outstanding debsts owed you, create a citiy of refuge, and sacrifice animals to atone for sin.

Yet, you are wise enough to realize that the sacrifices pointed toward Jesus, yet you cannot realize that the ceremonial feasts did the same thing?

Paul was brought from Jerusalem to Caesarea to stand trial, he stood and defended himself before the Jewish authorities and Felix the governor emphatically declaring that as an apostle of Jesus Christ he believed all things written in the Law and the Prophets: “Neither can they prove the things of which they now accuse me [abolishing the laws and commandments of God]. But I confess to you that according to the way which they call heresy [his teachings that Jesus was the Messiah, the Savior of mankind], so serve I the God of my fathers, believing all things that are written in the Law and the Prophets” (Acts 24:13-14). Paul also declared, “Therefore, the law is indeed holy, and the commandment holy and righteous and good” (Rom. 7:12).
Because a true believer is indeed justified by faith, Paul also answered those who believed in a “lawless grace” and claimed that justification through Christ’s sacrifice eliminated the need to keep the laws and commandments of God. Notice what Paul wrote: “Since it is indeed one God Who will justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith. Are we, then, abolishing law through faith? MAY IT NEVER BE! Rather, we are establishing law” (Rom. 3:30-31).

Far from having received some “greater revelation” that supersedes Christ’s teachings, Paul’s statement here is in full harmony with what Jesus taught: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.” Under the New Covenant, true believers will lovingly obey Jesus Christ and God the Father from the heart. Notice Jesus’ teachings concerning commandment-keeping—teachings which Evangelical Protestantism conveniently ignores: “If you love Me, keep the commandments— namely, My commandments…. The one who has My commandments and is keeping them, that is the one who loves Me; and the one who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him…. If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. The one who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word that you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s, Who sent Me” (John 14:15, 21, 23-24). Notice that Jesus does not say that commandment-keeping is for the Jews only—but that it is required of everyone.
Through the Holy Spirit of God—which God gives to those who obey Him (Acts 5:32)—the law is not abolished, but established by love and grace so that the laws and commandments can be written into one’s heart and mind. The New Covenant is not for Israel and Judah alone, but is for all converts: “ ‘This is the covenant that I will establish with them after those days,’ says the Lord: ‘I will give My laws into their hearts, and I will inscribe them in their minds; and their sins and lawlessness I will not remember ever again.’ Now where remission of these is, it is no longer necessary to offer necessary to offer 18). As we will see, at the heart of the controversy over the law is this: Does justification come by rituals and works, or by faith through grace?
Christ was raised from the dead so that we may be justified by faith through grace and put into right standing with God the Father. Paul shows that faith and belief are required for God to impute righteousness to us: “And he [Abraham] was fully persuaded that what He had promised, He is also able to do. As a result, it was also imputed to him for righteousness. But it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; rather, it was also written for our sake, to whom it shall be imputed—to those who believe in Him Who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, Who was delivered for our offenses, and WAS RAISED FOR OUR JUSTIFICATION” (Rom. 4:21-25).

Brasso
05-21-2012, 19:25
and you're wondering why christianity has no appeal, well except for whatever Brasso is...he'd piss off Mother Teresa.

Probably. Can't help that she was catholic.

rgregoryb
05-21-2012, 19:42
Probably. Can't help that she was catholic.

:rofl::rofl::whistling:

Kingarthurhk
05-21-2012, 19:58
1. Passover



Ah, yes, Communion. I don't know a church that doesn't have it.

2. Feast of Unleavened Bread
[/quote]

John 12:24-36, "<sup class="versenum">23 </sup>Jesus replied, “The hour <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26604Z))'></sup> has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26604AA))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26605AB))'></sup> it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26606AC))'></sup> for eternal life. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26606AD))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">26 </sup>Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26607AE))'></sup> My Father will honor the one who serves me."

John 6:32-40, "<sup> </sup>Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. <sup class="versenum">33 </sup>For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26291AG))'></sup> and gives life to the world.”
<sup class="versenum">34 </sup>“Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26292AH))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">35 </sup>Then Jesus declared, “I am <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26293AI))'></sup> the bread of life. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26293AJ))'></sup> Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26293AK))'></sup> in me will never be thirsty. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26293AL))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">36 </sup>But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. <sup class="versenum">37 </sup>All those the Father gives me <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26295AM))'></sup> will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>For I have come down from heaven <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26296AN))'></sup> not to do my will but to do the will <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26296AO))'></sup> of him who sent me. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26296AP))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26297AQ))'></sup> but raise them up at the last day. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26297AR))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">40 </sup>For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26298AS))'></sup> and believes in him shall have eternal life, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26298AT))'></sup> and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Yeast represented sin. Jesus was sinless. Therefore this feast pointed toward Jesus as our bread of life. Here Jesus fulfilled it.



3. Feast of Pentecost


Acts 2:2-40, "When the day of Pentecost <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26951A))'></sup> came, they were all together <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26951B))'></sup> in one place. <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26952C))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26954D))'></sup> and began to speak in other tongues<sup class="footnote" value='[a (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26954a)]'>[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26954a)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26954E))'></sup> as the Spirit enabled them.
<sup class="versenum">5 </sup>Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26955F))'></sup> Jews from every nation under heaven. <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. <sup class="versenum">7 </sup>Utterly amazed, <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26957G))'></sup> they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26957H))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">8 </sup>Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? <sup class="versenum">9 </sup>Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26959I))'></sup> Pontus <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26959J))'></sup> and Asia,<sup class="footnote" value=''>[b (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26959b)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26959K))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">10 </sup>Phrygia <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26960L))'></sup> and Pamphylia, <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26960M))'></sup> Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26960N))'></sup> visitors from Rome <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>(both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” <sup class="versenum">12 </sup>Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

<sup class="versenum">13 </sup>Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26963O))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26965P))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

<sup class="versenum">17 </sup>“‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26967Q))'></sup>
Your sons and daughters will prophesy, <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26967R))'></sup>
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
<sup class="versenum">18 </sup>Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy. <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26968S))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">19 </sup>I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below, <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26969T))'></sup>
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
<sup class="versenum">20 </sup>The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26970U))'></sup>
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
<sup class="versenum">21 </sup>And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26971V))'></sup> will be saved.’<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26971c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26971c)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26971W))'></sup>


<sup class="versenum">22 </sup>“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26972X))'></sup> was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26972Y))'></sup> which God did among you through him, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26972Z))'></sup> as you yourselves know. <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26973AA))'></sup> and you, with the help of wicked men,<sup class="footnote" value='[d (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26973d)]'>[d (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26973d)]</sup> put him to death by nailing him to the cross. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26973AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>But God raised him from the dead, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26974AC))'></sup> freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26974AD))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
<sup class="versenum">26 </sup>Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
<sup class="versenum">27 </sup>because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26977AE))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">28 </sup>You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’<sup class="footnote" value='[e (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26978e)]'>[e (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26978e)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26978AF))'></sup>


<sup class="versenum">29 </sup>“Fellow Israelites, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26979AG))'></sup> I can tell you confidently that the patriarch <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26979AH))'></sup> David died and was buried, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26979AI))'></sup> and his tomb is here <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26979AJ))'></sup> to this day. <sup class="versenum">30 </sup>But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26980AK))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">31 </sup>Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26981AL))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">32 </sup>God has raised this Jesus to life, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26982AM))'></sup> and we are all witnesses <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26982AN))'></sup> of it. <sup class="versenum">33 </sup>Exalted <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26983AO))'></sup> to the right hand of God, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26983AP))'></sup> he has received from the Father <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26983AQ))'></sup> the promised Holy Spirit <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26983AR))'></sup> and has poured out <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26983AS))'></sup> what you now see and hear. <sup class="versenum">34 </sup>For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
<sup class="versenum">35 </sup>until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’<sup class="footnote" value='[f (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26985f)]'>[f (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%202&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26985f)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26985AT))'></sup>


<sup class="versenum">36 </sup>“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord <sup class="crossreference" value='(AU (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26986AU))'></sup> and Messiah.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AV (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26986AV))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">37 </sup>When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26987AW))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">38 </sup>Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26988AX))'></sup> every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26988AY))'></sup> And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26988AZ))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">39 </sup>The promise is for you and your children <sup class="crossreference" value='(BA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26989BA))'></sup> and for all who are far off <sup class="crossreference" value='(BB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26989BB))'></sup> —for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

<sup class="versenum">40 </sup>With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(BC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26990BC))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">41 </sup>Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number <sup class="crossreference" value='(BD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26991BD))'></sup> that day."

This was fulfilled as Jesus said it would be:

John 14:15-27, "<sup> </sup>“If you love me, keep my commands. <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26684V))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26685W))'></sup> to help you and be with you forever— <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>the Spirit of truth. <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26686X))'></sup> The world cannot accept him, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26686Y))'></sup> because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26686c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26686c)]</sup> in you. <sup class="versenum">18 </sup>I will not leave you as orphans; <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26687Z))'></sup> I will come to you. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26687AA))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26688AB))'></sup> Because I live, you also will live. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26688AC))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>On that day <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26689AD))'></sup> you will realize that I am in my Father, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26689AE))'></sup> and you are in me, and I am in you. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26689AF))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">21 </sup>Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26690AG))'></sup> The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26690AH))'></sup> and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
<sup class="versenum">22 </sup>Then Judas <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26691AI))'></sup> (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26691AJ))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">23 </sup>Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26692AK))'></sup> My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26692AL))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26693AM))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">25 </sup>“[B]All this I have spoken while still with you.<sup class="versenum">26 </sup>But the Advocate, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26695AN))'></sup> the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26695AO))'></sup> will teach you all things <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26695AP))'></sup> and will remind you of everything I have said to you. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26695AQ))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">27 </sup>Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26696AR))'></sup> I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26696AS))'></sup> and do not be afraid."

Part II Next post...

Kingarthurhk
05-21-2012, 19:59
4. Feast of Trumpets*


The Feast of Trumpets is far too complex to deal with in a single thread: http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/festivals_2/3.html (http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/books/festivals_2/3.html)



5. Day of Atonement


Jesus is the Atonement:


Hebrews 9:7,11, "But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;" Hebrews 9:24-26, "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

6. Feast of Tabernacles


John 7:10-44, "However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret. <sup class="versenum">11 </sup>Now at the festival the Jewish leaders were watching for Jesus <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26340J))'></sup> and asking, “Where is he?”
<sup class="versenum">12 </sup>Among the crowds there was widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.”
Others replied, “No, he deceives the people.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26341K))'></sup><sup class="versenum">13 </sup>But no one would say anything publicly about him for fear of the leaders. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26342L))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Not until halfway through the festival did Jesus go up to the temple courts and begin to teach. <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26343M))'></sup><sup class="versenum">15 </sup>The Jews <sup class="crossreference" value='(N (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26344N))'></sup> there were amazed and asked, “How did this man get such learning <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26344O))'></sup> without having been taught?” <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26344P))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26345Q))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out <sup class="crossreference" value='(R (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26346R))'></sup> whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. <sup class="versenum">18 </sup>Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, <sup class="crossreference" value='(S (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26347S))'></sup> but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him. <sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Has not Moses given you the law? <sup class="crossreference" value='(T (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26348T))'></sup> Yet not one of you keeps the law. Why are you trying to kill me?” <sup class="crossreference" value='(U (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26348U))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">20 </sup>“You are demon-possessed,” <sup class="crossreference" value='(V (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26349V))'></sup>the crowd answered. “Who is trying to kill you?”

<sup class="versenum">21 </sup>Jesus said to them, “I did one miracle, <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26350W))'></sup> and you are all amazed. <sup class="versenum">22 </sup>Yet, because Moses gave you circumcision <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26351X))'></sup> (though actually it did not come from Moses, but from the patriarchs), <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26351Y))'></sup> you circumcise a boy on the Sabbath. <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>Now if a boy can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for healing a man’s whole body on the Sabbath? <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(Z (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26353Z))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">25 </sup>At that point some of the people of Jerusalem began to ask, “Isn’t this the man they are trying to kill? <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26354AA))'></sup><sup class="versenum">26 </sup>Here he is, speaking publicly, and they are not saying a word to him. Have the authorities <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26355AB))'></sup> really concluded that he is the Messiah? <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26355AC))'></sup><sup class="versenum">27 </sup>But we know where this man is from; <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26356AD))'></sup> when the Messiah comes, no one will know where he is from.”

<sup class="versenum">28 </sup>Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26357AE))'></sup> cried out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26357AF))'></sup> I am not here on my own authority, but he who sent me is true. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26357AG))'></sup> You do not know him,<sup class="versenum">29 </sup>but I know him <sup class="crossreference" value='(AH (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26358AH))'></sup> because I am from him and he sent me.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AI (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26358AI))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">30 </sup>At this they tried to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AJ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26359AJ))'></sup> because his hour had not yet come. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AK (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26359AK))'></sup><sup class="versenum">31 </sup>Still, many in the crowd believed in him. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AL (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26360AL))'></sup> They said, “When the Messiah comes, will he perform more signs <sup class="crossreference" value='(AM (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26360AM))'></sup> than this man?”

<sup class="versenum">32 </sup>The Pharisees heard the crowd whispering such things about him. Then the chief priests and the Pharisees sent temple guards to arrest him.

<sup class="versenum">33 </sup>Jesus said, “I am with you for only a short time, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AN (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26362AN))'></sup> and then I am going to the one who sent me. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AO (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26362AO))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">34 </sup>You will look for me, but you will not find me; and where I am, you cannot come.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AP (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26363AP))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">35 </sup>The Jews said to one another, “Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered <sup class="crossreference" value='(AQ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26364AQ))'></sup> among the Greeks, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26364AR))'></sup> and teach the Greeks? <sup class="versenum">36 </sup>What did he mean when he said, ‘You will look for me, but you will not find me,’ and ‘Where I am, you cannot come’?” <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26365AS))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">37 </sup>On the last and greatest day of the festival, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26366AT))'></sup> Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AU (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26366AU))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">38 </sup>Whoever believes <sup class="crossreference" value='(AV (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26367AV))'></sup> in me, as Scripture has said, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26367AW))'></sup> rivers of living water <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26367AX))'></sup> will flow from within them.”<sup class="footnote" value='[c (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#fen-NIV-26367c)]'>[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+7&version=NIV#fen-NIV-26367c)]</sup> <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26367AY))'></sup><sup class="versenum">39 </sup>By this he meant the Spirit, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26368AZ))'></sup> whom those who believed in him were later to receive. <sup class="crossreference" value='(BA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26368BA))'></sup> Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. <sup class="crossreference" value='(BB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26368BB))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">40 </sup>On hearing his words, some of the people said, “Surely this man is the Prophet.” <sup class="crossreference" value='(BC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26369BC))'></sup>

<sup class="versenum">41 </sup>Others said, “He is the Messiah.”
Still others asked, “How can the Messiah come from Galilee? <sup class="crossreference" value='(BD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26370BD))'></sup><sup class="versenum">42 </sup>Does not Scripture say that the Messiah will come from David’s descendants <sup class="crossreference" value='(BE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26371BE))'></sup> and from Bethlehem, <sup class="crossreference" value='(BF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26371BF))'></sup> the town where David lived?” <sup class="versenum">43 </sup>Thus the people were divided <sup class="crossreference" value='(BG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-26372BG))'></sup> because of Jesus. <sup class="versenum">44 </sup>Some wanted to seize him, but no one laid a hand on him."[/quote]

Here in bold, Jesus once again fulfills it.



is mentioned by several New Testament authors as noted in the references.

And no link provided? What author?

At any rate, the fulfillment of these things is part of what Jesus was referring to when he said:

Matthew 5:17-20, "“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. <sup class="crossreference" value='(W (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23252W))'></sup><sup class="versenum">18 </sup>For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. <sup class="crossreference" value='(X (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23253X))'></sup><sup class="versenum">19 </sup>Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands <sup class="crossreference" value='(Y (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23254Y))'></sup> and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. <sup class="versenum">20 </sup>For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus fulfilled what the prophets foretold of Him. Jesus fulfilled the feasts. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the 10 Commandments by keeping and teaching them, and taking the penalty and sting of death from them, and bringing salvation through Himself.

These feasts do not save you. Even the Law cannot save you. Only Jesus can save you. The Law condemns us and rightly so, for we are all sinners. However, Jesus took that condemnation upon Himself.

Vic Hays
05-21-2012, 20:38
Dancing around Vic? You made a statement that Gods Holy Days were not mentioned in the NT being kept. I proved you wrong. Care to address that first?

That is not difficult at all. I asked where they were commanded to be kept. The communion service was the replacement of the Passover for example. Jesus commanded this change.

The Church consisted of Jews and believing Gentiles. The Jews had been circumcised and kept the Law of Moses. The Gentiles had not entered into this vow and were not required to keep the law of Moses.

I Corinthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

The Galatians were Gentiles who were being told they needed to be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses was called a yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

FCoulter
05-21-2012, 20:48
That is not difficult at all. I asked where they were commanded to be kept. The communion service was the replacement of the Passover for example. Jesus commanded this change.

The Church consisted of Jews and believing Gentiles. The Jews had been circumcised and kept the Law of Moses. The Gentiles had not entered into this vow and were not required to keep the law of Moses.

I Corinthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.
7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


Vic you really need to show me a new command for communion. Funny what you call communion fell at the same time of day on the same day tha God said to be kept forever as Passover.

Also please go back and read all the text I posted explaining circumcision, and how its all about faith.

Now address the Annual Sabbaths that were kept by the early church which was neither jew nor greek?

Please dont respond like king did, he makes the SDA look worse than what you Vic represent them as.

Vic Hays
05-21-2012, 23:31
Also please go back and read all the text I posted explaining circumcision, and how its all about faith.

Now address the Annual Sabbaths that were kept by the early church which was neither jew nor greek?

Please dont respond like king did, he makes the SDA look worse than what you Vic represent them as.

Lets keep it simple. I will address the change of Passover later.

1. The texts speaking about circumcision also speak of keeping the Law. This is not circumcision only. This is the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

2. Here is a good example of a circumcised Jew keeping a feast being required to go to Jerusalem for the feast according to the law. Note that Paul was not going with the other Church members.

Acts
20:7 And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hurried, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

3. King is responding to your barbs and mis characterization of motives and intents. If you expect to be treated with courtesy you must first treat others with courtesy. How would you feel if this had been posted about you? Would you think it was hostile? It came right back to you like a boomerang.

Originally Posted by FCoulter
"Brasso,Vic and King arent interested in the truth."

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

rgregoryb
05-22-2012, 06:57
Please dont respond like king did, he makes the SDA look worse than what you Vic represent them as.

Is English your second language?

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 07:32
Is English your second language?

Yes it is

Kingarthurhk
05-22-2012, 07:47
Yes it is

Out of curiosity, what is your first language, Fred?

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 07:54
Lets keep it simple. I will address the change of Passover later.

1. The texts speaking about circumcision also speak of keeping the Law. This is not circumcision only. This is the Law of Moses.

Acts 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, You must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

2. Here is a good example of a circumcised Jew keeping a feast being required to go to Jerusalem for the feast according to the law. Note that Paul was not going with the other Church members.

Acts
20:7 And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

20:16 For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hurried, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

3. King is responding to your barbs and mis characterization of motives and intents. If you expect to be treated with courtesy you must first treat others with courtesy. How would you feel if this had been posted about you? Would you think it was hostile? It came right back to you like a boomerang.

Originally Posted by FCoulter
"Brasso,Vic and King arent interested in the truth."

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

The children of Israel were to keep the commandments of God so that they might live with God’s blessings. Thus, God’s laws are obviously not a curse. How can Protestants possibly believe that Jesus abolished the entire law—“nailing it to the cross”—when God commanded the children of Israel not to add to it or diminish anything from it? (Also see Deuteronomy 12:32 and similar references.)
God is a God of love. He gave His laws and commandments to be a blessing for Israel and a benefit to all mankind. “Therefore, know this day and fix it in your heart that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath. There is none other. Therefore, you shall keep His statutes and His commandments which I command you this day, so that it may go well with you and with your children after you, and so that you may prolong your days upon the earth, which the LORD your God gives you forever…. And you shall be careful to do as the LORD your God has commanded you. You shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. You shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God has commanded you so that you may live and that it may be well with you, and you may prolong your days in the land which you shall possess.
Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments which the LORD our God commanded to teach you so that you might do them in the land where you go to possess it, that you might fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you, and your son, and your son’s son, all the days of your life, and so that your days may be prolonged. Hear therefore, O Israel, and be diligent to observe it, so that it may be well with you, and that you may greatly multiply, as the LORD God of our fathers has promised you, in the land that flows with milk and honey” (Deut. 4:39-40; 5:32-33; 6:1-3).

Compare those words of Jesus to this ignorant statement: “The law is a unit of 613 commandments and all of it has been invalidated…. It has ceased to function as an authority over individuals” (Tardo, p. 31).
If the law was abolished, there would be no sin, because as Paul wrote, “[W]here no law is, there is no transgression” (Rom. 4:15). Likewise, if there is no transgression, the penalty for sin or the need for forgiveness vanishes. Consequently, there would be no need for a Savior, and Jesus would have died in vain.

Because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws” (Gen. 26:4-5). Abraham is not only the father of Isaac and Jacob and the children of Israel in the Old Testament, He is also called the father of the New Testament faithful: “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 2:29). This means that if we are truly Christ’s, then we will do as Abraham did. We will obey the voice of God, keep His charge, His commandments, His statutes and His laws. We will never believe that Jesus did away with the law—or called the law a curse.

We must look at Paul’s attitude toward the law of God. For example, he wrote the following to the Corinthians: “For circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing; rather, the keeping of God’s commandments is essential ” (I Cor. 7:19). He further explained how he reached out to everyone, Jew and Gentile alike, in preaching the gospel. But never at any time did he proclaim that the laws and commandments of God were no longer in effect for himself or the believer:

But I confess to you that according to the way which they call heresy [his teachings that Jesus was the Messiah, the Savior of mankind], so serve I the God of my fathers, believing all things that are written in the Law and the Prophets” (Acts 24:13-14). Paul also declared, “Therefore, the law is indeed holy, and the commandment holy and righteous and good” (Rom. 7:12).

The truth of the matter is that the law of God is perfect—not a curse! Sin is a curse! Obedience to the laws and commandments of God results in blessings! (Deut. 28:1-14; Lev. 26:1-13). Sin—the transgression of the law (I John 3:4)—results in curses (Deut. 28:15-68; Lev. 26:13-45).

Vic Hays
05-22-2012, 08:11
The children of Israel were to keep the commandments of God so that they might live with God’s blessings. Thus, God’s laws are obviously not a curse. How can Protestants possibly believe that Jesus abolished the entire law—“nailing it to the cross”—when God commanded the children of Israel not to add to it or diminish anything from it? (Also see Deuteronomy 12:32 and similar references.).

God's laws are not a curse. This is why you are having trouble understanding the answer to this question.

Some Protestants want to believe that the entire law was abolished because they do not keep the fourth commandment of the Ten Commandments.

What if the law had two parts? The Ten Commandment Covenant and the Law of Moses?

What if the Law of Moses had an expiration date on it?

Well it does.

Galatians 3:19 Why then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Moses was that Mediator. The law of Moses was added because of transgressions. It has served its purpose and expired along with the animal sacrifices and feast days.

The Ten Commandments are the Covenant and moral law. Morality never goes out of style. The Ten Commandments are eternal. You can see from the context which commandments Jesus thought are necessary.

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

Brasso
05-22-2012, 14:33
Galatians 3:19 Why then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

So the Torah was added because of transgression? Come on. You know in your heart of hearts that that makes absolutely no sense at all. The people were sinning so He added more commandments for them to break?

The thing which was added till Messiah could come and make a permanent end of their sins was the Tabernacle, which made a temporary end of their sins. Why do you find this so complicated?

The only difference between the Abrahamic Covenant which you now belong to, and the Mosaic Covenant, is the Tabernacle and Levitical priesthood. Abraham kept the Torah and made sacrifice under the Melchizadok Priesthood. It's in black and white.

Kingarthurhk
05-22-2012, 14:41
Interesting:

http://www.cbcg.org/about_the_author.htm

Interesting:

Fred teaches you how to behave
Fred Tells you how to pray
Fred Tells you how study your bible
Fred rearranges the bible
Fred rewrites the bible
Fred tells you what to do

I am seeing a theme here.

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 15:12
Interesting:

http://www.cbcg.org/about_the_author.htm

Interesting:

Fred teaches you how to behave
Fred Tells you how to pray
Fred Tells you how study your bible
Fred rearranges the bible
Fred rewrites the bible
Fred tells you what to do

I am seeing a theme here.

You see only what you want to see.

This is funny comming from someone who cant have a discussion without The inflection of the white movement.

Its ok though atleast some of the SDA have obeyed Gods voice and keep all His Commands. So there is hope even for you.

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 15:13
So the Torah was added because of transgression? Come on. You know in your heart of hearts that that makes absolutely no sense at all. The people were sinning so He added more commandments for them to break?

The thing which was added till Messiah could come and make a permanent end of their sins was the Tabernacle, which made a temporary end of their sins. Why do you find this so complicated?

The only difference between the Abrahamic Covenant which you now belong to, and the Mosaic Covenant, is the Tabernacle and Levitical priesthood. Abraham kept the Torah and made sacrifice under the Melchizadok Priesthood. It's in black and white.

I agree Brasso it is black and white, however the only at this time see white ( ellen white )

Kingarthurhk
05-22-2012, 15:24
You see only what you want to see.

This is funny comming from someone who cant have a discussion without The inflection of the white movement.

Its ok though atleast some of the SDA have obeyed Gods voice and keep all His Commands. So there is hope even for you.

Actually, I have been using the bible (Not written by Fred Sr.), and it appears you have been plagarizing Fred Sr.

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 16:35
Actually, I have been using the bible (Not written by Fred Sr.), and it appears you have been plagarizing Fred Sr.

Oh really? That's a huge claim almost slanderous.

Let me ask of you one question.

I assume you use the NIV primarily, who translated it?

To translate something is NOT writing it.

Shall we advance to a 2nd grade level of discussion now, or remain remedial for your benefit?

Kingarthurhk
05-22-2012, 17:24
Oh really? That's a huge claim almost slanderous.

Let me ask of you one question.

I assume you use the NIV primarily, who translated it?

Not Fred. Also, Fred didn't order the books for me and decide what should or should not be in there.


To translate something is NOT writing it.

Assumming 1. You are qualified, and 2. You don't have a particular agenda.


Shall we advance to a 2nd grade level of discussion now, or remain remedial for your benefit?

You have been copying and pasting a lot of Fred without giving Fred credit. Not so good. When you copy and paste Fred, you should at least link to Fred to give Fred the Fredlike credit he deserves.

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 17:38
Not Fred. Also, Fred didn't order the books for me and decide what should or should not be in there.



Assumming 1. You are qualified, and 2. You don't have a particular agenda.



You have been copying and pasting a lot of Fred without giving Fred credit. Not so good. When you copy and paste Fred, you should at least link to Fred to give Fred the Fredlike credit he deserves.

Again you are making rather large assumptions.

Are you also claiming prophet status like EW tried to do?

Vic Hays
05-22-2012, 18:18
You see only what you want to see.

This is funny comming from someone who cant have a discussion without The inflection of the white movement.

Its ok though atleast some of the SDA have obeyed Gods voice and keep all His Commands. So there is hope even for you.

And yet you have yet to respond to the scriptures I have presented you?

Galatians 3:19 Why then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What do you think was added because of transgressions?

What does it mean " till the seed should come to whom the promise was made"?

This is Bible not Ellen White.

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 18:45
And yet you have yet to respond to the scriptures I have presented you?

Galatians 3:19 Why then serves the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

What do you think was added because of transgressions?

What does it mean " till the seed should come to whom the promise was made"?

This is Bible not Ellen White.

Paul continues in chapter three, making it clear that any work of any law is not able to bring about justification for past sins. While God requires Christians to keep His laws and commandments in their full spiritual intent, no law has the power to forgive sin, justify a person to God spiritually, impart the Holy Spirit, or bestow eternal life. The function of God’s laws and commandments is to define sin: “O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you into not obeying the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ, crucified, was set forth in a written public proclamation? This only I desire to learn from you: did you receive the Spirit of God by works of law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being perfected in the flesh [through obedience to carnal laws of Judaism]?… Therefore, consider this: He Who is supplying the Spirit to you, and Who is working deeds of power among you, is He doing it by works of law or by the hearing of faith?” (Gal. 3:1-5).
Concerning the laws and commandments of God, Paul demonstrates that they are not contrary to God’s promises of eternal life—which can only come through loving obedience and faith in Jesus Christ. “Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? MAY IT NEVER BE! For if a law had been given that had the power to give life, then righteousness [justification] had the power to give life, then righteousness [justification] would indeed have been by law. But the Scriptures have shut up all things under sin, so that by the faith of Jesus Christ the promise [of eternal life] might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were guarded under law, having been shut up unto the faith that was yet to be revealed [at Christ’s first coming]. In this way, the law was our tutor to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. But since faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” (Gal. 3:21-25).

After repentance, baptism and the laying of hands, God gives the Holy Spirit—which unites with the spirit of man within the believer (I John 3:9) bringing conversion (John 14:17). God, then begins to write His laws and commandments in the mind of the new believer (Heb. 10:16). Instead of the external tutoring of the law, the believer now begins to develop the mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit through faith (Phil. 2:5). This is the internal working of the Holy Spirit to lead the believer in all righteousness (Rom. 8:14).

rgregoryb
05-22-2012, 18:53
So Fred, after reading your "beliefs" on your website, I see you are not a Trinitarian. When you baptize someone do you only baptize in the name of the father and the son?

Matthew 28:16-20
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Great Commission

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

juggy4711
05-22-2012, 19:58
Actually, I have been using the bible...

Which Bible?

juggy4711
05-22-2012, 20:11
I guess that would make sense if I were a Jew, but I am not.

However, who do you think is being mentioned here in Isaiah... (a bunch of scripture you do not have the first clue what it means in the language it was originally written and being dependent on translations many times removed from the original by folks that were not necessarily fluent in the original language it was written, but think you know better than those that can actually read it in the original language)

You're not a Jew, so the original intent/purpose/nature/description of Satan doesn't make sense even though the Jews wrote everything your religion is originally based on, around 1200 years before the NT originals where written which are again dependent on far removed translations and choose to believe some lady's interpretation from the 1800's AD?

Brilliant.

FCoulter
05-22-2012, 20:15
So Fred, after reading your "beliefs" on your website, I see you are not a Trinitarian. When you baptize someone do you only baptize in the name of the father and the son?

Matthew 28:16-20
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Great Commission

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/Baptism/11_Into_Whose_Name.pdf

rgregoryb
05-22-2012, 20:52
hmmmmmmmmmm, that actually made some sense...as they say, even a blind pig eventually finds an acorn.

Vic Hays
05-22-2012, 22:29
The function of God’s laws and commandments is to define sin: “O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you into not obeying the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ, crucified, was set forth in a written public proclamation? This only I desire to learn from you: did you receive the Spirit of God by works of law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being perfected in the flesh [through obedience to carnal laws of Judaism]?… Therefore, consider this: He Who is supplying the Spirit to you, and Who is working deeds of power among you, is He doing it by works of law or by the hearing of faith?” (Gal. 3:1-5)..

Please explain how the feast days define sin. The Ten Commandment moral laws define sin. The feast days do not define sin.

Please explain how keeping the feast days is not the works of the law.

James tells us what the standard of judgment is. It is the moral law according to the context.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

FCoulter
05-23-2012, 06:28
Please explain how the feast days define sin. The Ten Commandment moral laws define sin. The feast days do not define sin.

Please explain how keeping the feast days is not the works of the law.

James tells us what the standard of judgment is. It is the moral law according to the context.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

http://www.cbcg.org/franklin/FV_Appendix_N.pdf

Brasso
05-23-2012, 07:14
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”


I have no idea what Fred posted on this, but these passages are not found in any of the earliest manuscripts. Most scholars will agree they were later additions.

Additionally, the name Yeshua, carries with it the name of the Father. His name is in Him.

Brasso
05-23-2012, 07:34
Please explain how the feast days define sin. The Ten Commandment moral laws define sin. The feast days do not define sin.

Please explain how keeping the feast days is not the works of the law.



Vic, Baptism is a work. Context is everything.

First of all, your whole premise of some moral law that is separate from the others is just wishful thinking It is nowhere defined like this anywhere in the Bible. The Law is one and is stated as such even in the New Testament. To break one commandment makes you guilty of breaking them all.

Secondly, all the Feast Days are about the Messiah. Even the so called "Lord's Supper" was given at Passover and we are told to keep at Passover. The Apostles and Paul continued to keep Passoever. Pentacost, called Shavuot in Hebew, is one of the commanded 7 Feast Days as well. The only ones left that He hasn't fulfilled yet are Trumpets which is the rapture, Atonement with is the Wedding Supper, and Tabernacles, the Millenial Rule. They all matter and are all shadows of things to come.

Thirdly, "works of the law" is an idom that means temple sacrifice and the accompanying activities. This is why works of the law won't save you and were never meant to. They were temporary coverings. The blood of bulls and goats cannot remove your sin, only cover them. Messiahs blood removes your sin. "...as far as the east is from the west..."

Messiah is the seed. He replaced the Levitical Priesthood with the Melchizadok Priesthood. He brought true forgiveness of sin. His blood provides the final sin sacrifice. It is the Levitical Priesthood that He replaced, not the Torah. He is the Torah. What does the Bible say about the third temple? The levites, due to their unfaithfulness won't be allowed to minister in the holy place. They only take care of the grounds of the temple. Who ministers directly in their place? The sons of Zadok. His is a Melchi-Zadok priesthood. The same one Abraham was under. The Priesthood of the First Born. He was the First Fruits. This is why the first born male, human or animal, had to be taken to the tempble and be redeemed. He has now redeemed us all. It all fits together. It all makes sense. If you put it in context.

The Torah was not added to the Torah. Moses received those tablets twice. Both sets had the exact same thing on them. The only thing that changed between the first and second time he got them was the addtion of what? The Levitical Priesthood. The first time Moses went up the mountain he was told about the sacrifricial system. That wasn't new. What was new was the Levitical Priesthood and how they would minister within the Tabernacle system instead of the original MelchiZadok system.

And when He returns, stands on the Mount of Olives, and builds the Third Temple, as the King and Cohen HaGadol, High Priest of the Melchizadok Priesthood, there will be sacrifice once again. It's in black and white.

creaky
05-23-2012, 10:54
So Fred, after reading your "beliefs" on your website, I see you are not a Trinitarian. When you baptize someone do you only baptize in the name of the father and the son?

Matthew 28:16-20
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Great Commission

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

The war of the cults... This isn't even interesting anymore.

creaky
05-23-2012, 11:01
I have no idea what Fred posted on this, but these passages are not found in any of the earliest manuscripts. Most scholars will agree they were later additions.

Additionally, the name Yeshua, carries with it the name of the Father. His name is in Him.

Why don't you be done with it and get rid of the New Testament in it's entirety? Or have you already done that in your synagogue?

I suppose you all have copies of the "real" Bible there?

What a sad joke...

rgregoryb
05-23-2012, 13:56
The war of the cults... This isn't even interesting anymore.

I find it kind of humorous...........each claiming god has whispered the real truth into their ears only. :rofl:

Brasso
05-23-2012, 15:11
Why don't you be done with it and get rid of the New Testament in it's entirety? Or have you already done that in your synagogue?

Why? I believe what it says. Just because I don't believe what a council of sun worshiper wishes it said doesn't make it wrong.

I can't recall you being able to find any Scriptural fault with anything I've ever said. Why is that?

Vic Hays
05-23-2012, 17:23
I find it kind of humorous...........each claiming god has whispered the real truth into their ears only. :rofl:

That is not true. I have been asking about the Bible texts only. Brasso and Fred have been relying on their philosophy or seat of the pants or whatever it is.

Vic Hays
05-23-2012, 17:25
Why? I believe what it says. Just because I don't believe what a council of sun worshiper wishes it said doesn't make it wrong.

I can't recall you being able to find any Scriptural fault with anything I've ever said. Why is that?

I certainly have found fault with your twists on the Bible.

Kingarthurhk
05-23-2012, 18:07
You're not a Jew, so the original intent/purpose/nature/description of Satan doesn't make sense even though the Jews wrote everything your religion is originally based on, around 1200 years before the NT originals where written which are again dependent on far removed translations and choose to believe some lady's interpretation from the 1800's AD?

Brilliant.

Well, let's nail down what you are talking about and where you are comming from. I have a theory, check it, and then verify it's accuracy.

I suspect you are Jewish. However, you don't believe in Satan, or any particular origin of sin. You obviously don't believe in Jesus. So, I can see how none of this would make any sense to you.

Kingarthurhk
05-23-2012, 18:13
Paul continues in chapter three, making it clear that any work of any law is not able to bring about justification for past sins. While God requires Christians to keep His laws and commandments in their full spiritual intent, no law has the power to forgive sin, justify a person to God spiritually, impart the Holy Spirit, or bestow eternal life. The function of God’s laws and commandments is to define sin: “O foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you into not obeying the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ, crucified, was set forth in a written public proclamation? This only I desire to learn from you: did you receive the Spirit of God by works of law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being perfected in the flesh [through obedience to carnal laws of Judaism]?… Therefore, consider this: He Who is supplying the Spirit to you, and Who is working deeds of power among you, is He doing it by works of law or by the hearing of faith?” (Gal. 3:1-5).
Concerning the laws and commandments of God, Paul demonstrates that they are not contrary to God’s promises of eternal life—which can only come through loving obedience and faith in Jesus Christ. “Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? MAY IT NEVER BE! For if a law had been given that had the power to give life, then righteousness [justification] had the power to give life, then righteousness [justification] would indeed have been by law. But the Scriptures have shut up all things under sin, so that by the faith of Jesus Christ the promise [of eternal life] might be given to those who believe. Now before faith came, we were guarded under law, having been shut up unto the faith that was yet to be revealed [at Christ’s first coming]. In this way, the law was our tutor to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. But since faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor” (Gal. 3:21-25).

After repentance, baptism and the laying of hands, God gives the Holy Spirit—which unites with the spirit of man within the believer (I John 3:9) bringing conversion (John 14:17). God, then begins to write His laws and commandments in the mind of the new believer (Heb. 10:16). Instead of the external tutoring of the law, the believer now begins to develop the mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit through faith (Phil. 2:5). This is the internal working of the Holy Spirit to lead the believer in all righteousness (Rom. 8:14).

Link to the original author?


LOBACHEVSKY - Tom Lehrer - YouTube

Kingarthurhk
05-23-2012, 18:15
The war of the cults... This isn't even interesting anymore.

Don't you have a Muslim to harrass?

Kingarthurhk
05-23-2012, 18:53
Why don't you be done with it and get rid of the New Testament in it's entirety? Or have you already done that in your synagogue?

I suppose you all have copies of the "real" Bible there?

What a sad joke...

True, I didn't even get a guffaw, a snort, or even a mild chortle.

creaky
05-23-2012, 19:12
Don't you have a Muslim to harrass?

Not at this time. Lacking that, Judaizers and other assorted heretics will do...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Kingarthurhk
05-23-2012, 19:39
Not at this time. Lacking that, Judaizers and other assorted heretics will do...

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Angry much?

http://2log.biz/img/upload/2011/Feb/AngryPope.png

juggy4711
05-24-2012, 20:14
Well, let's nail down what you are talking about and where you are comming from. I have a theory, check it, and then verify it's accuracy.

I suspect you are Jewish. However, you don't believe in Satan, or any particular origin of sin. You obviously don't believe in Jesus. So, I can see how none of this would make any sense to you.

You suspect I'm Jewish? :rofl: Once again Brilliant.

Kingarthurhk
05-25-2012, 16:34
You suspect I'm Jewish? :rofl: Once again Brilliant.

Yes? No? Verklempt?

FCoulter
05-25-2012, 17:44
Yes? No? Verklempt?

Really? Use your prophetic sense to tell you that he is making fun of you for being so guessing something so obvious.

Oh wait, you still dont get it. Lol

Kingarthurhk
05-25-2012, 18:09
Really? Use your prophetic sense to tell you that he is making fun of you for being so guessing something so obvious.

Oh wait, you still dont get it. Lol

Congratulations. This time you didn't palgarize.

FCoulter
05-25-2012, 18:31
Congratulations. This time you didn't palgarize.

Given your series of meaningless posts, this may be the appropriate time to take the advise of another thread and use the ignore function.

Kingarthurhk
05-25-2012, 18:44
Given your series of meaningless posts, this may be the appropriate time to take the advise of another thread and use the ignore function.

You really should stop plagarzing the actual Fred Coulter while running around with his name. The two actions together are unethical. At best untwoard; and at worst, a cult of personality that is just plain creepy.

juggy4711
05-25-2012, 19:00
Yes? No? Verklempt?

Really? Use your prophetic sense to tell you that he is making fun of you for being so guessing something so obvious.

Oh wait, you still dont get it. Lol

Neither of you get it and obviously have not paid attention to my posts in other threads. I'm as Jewish as a cheeseburger.

You really should stop plagarzing the actual Fred Coulter while running around with his name. The two actions together are unethical. At best untwoard; and at worst, a cult of personality that is just plain creepy.

Cult of personality? Fred...Ellen. Pot calls the kettle.

Kingarthurhk
05-25-2012, 19:01
Neither of you get it and obviously have not paid attention to my posts in other threads. I'm as Jewish as a cheeseburger.

My mystery deepens. You claim you are not an Atheist. Clearly, my other guess was wrong. Agnostic perhaps?

juggy4711
05-25-2012, 19:30
My mystery deepens. You claim you are not an Atheist. Clearly, my other guess was wrong. Agnostic perhaps?

Deist would be my usual answer and as close as common terminology gets but finding that lacking, having been asked the question quite a bit lately and often confused for an Atheist, I've put some thought into it and I'm going to use a term I find more accurate.

Quantum Deist.

FCoulter
05-25-2012, 19:32
You really should stop plagarzing the actual Fred Coulter while running around with his name. The two actions together are unethical. At best untwoard; and at worst, a cult of personality that is just plain creepy.

Ok I have had enough of your juvenile behavior. I was asked along time ago if I was "Fred" I responded to keep things simple, no I am not. So stop claiming I am, and even if I was it is of no concern of yours or anyones else. As for most of the post I make it is linked to cbcg.

Now quit throwing stones , because your glass house is fragile since 98% of your posted are copied fro sda tracts.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 05:02
Ok I have had enough of your juvenile behavior. I was asked along time ago if I was "Fred" I responded to keep things simple, no I am not. So stop claiming I am, and even if I was it is of no concern of yours or anyones else. As for most of the post I make it is linked to cbcg.

Now quit throwing stones , because your glass house is fragile since 98% of your posted are copied fro sda tracts.

Actually, when I take something from a place, I post the link. When I don't its typically an accident or and oversight. My point is you do it often and always. If you cannot put it in your own words, at least post the link.

I am not being "juvenile" this is a serious concern.

My question is, why are you running around with Fred's name and posting his material as if it were your own?

FCoulter
05-26-2012, 06:27
Actually, when I take something from a place, I post the link. When I don't its typically an accident or and oversight. My point is you do it often and always. If you cannot put it in your own words, at least post the link.

I am not being "juvenile" this is a serious concern.

My question is, why are you running around with Fred's name and posting his material as if it were your own?

You really are amusing once you ingnore the useless garbage that you usually post. Take it for what it is worth ok, I am not "Fred" ;)

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 06:31
You really are amusing once you ingnore the useless garbage that you usually post. Take it for what it is worth ok, I am not "Fred" ;)

just a worshiper of "fred" ?

FCoulter
05-26-2012, 06:54
just a worshiper of "fred" ?

I worship only God, sadly most on here worship the god of this world. Thankfully this will change.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 06:55
I worship only God, sadly most on here worship the god of this world. Thankfully this will change.

Who are "most"?

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 07:37
Who are "most"?

everybody but him................and of course Brasso :supergrin:

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 07:53
Ok I have had enough of your juvenile behavior. I was asked along time ago if I was "Fred" I responded to keep things simple, no I am not. So stop claiming I am, and even if I was it is of no concern of yours or anyones else. As for most of the post I make it is linked to cbcg.



you stated that you were fred in another thread:


Originally Posted by rgregoryb
You the new spokesperson for the WWCOG? wouldn't it be easier to just post a continuous link than regurgitate someone else's work all the time?

Got any original thoughts?

Reply:

I left WWCG many yrs ago. I disagreed with the Pastor General HWA on many different areas.

I am a spokesperson for Jesus Christ, my thoughts are His.
If this troubles you I am sorry.

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 07:55
and you also directed us to your resignation "sermon" "letter" in another.

isn't that a breaking of the 10 suggestions?

FCoulter
05-26-2012, 11:51
and you also directed us to your resignation "sermon" "letter" in another.

isn't that a breaking of the 10 suggestions?

I guess you didnt get the ;) I made to king.

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 14:55
Ok I have had enough of your juvenile behavior. I was asked along time ago if I was "Fred" I responded to keep things simple, no I am not. So stop claiming I am, and even if I was it is of no concern of yours or anyones else. As for most of the post I make it is linked to cbcg.

Now quit throwing stones , because your glass house is fragile since 98% of your posted are copied fro sda tracts.

and where again was the smilie in this post?

FCoulter
05-26-2012, 17:00
and where again was the smilie in this post?

2 posts down post number 122

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 19:47
2 posts down post number 122

so, first post was a lie?

FCoulter
05-26-2012, 20:09
so, first post was a lie?

Nope read it as you will.

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 20:10
Nope read it as you will.

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533077_205700459549158_123466191105919_339137_1833656884_n.jpg

FCoulter
05-26-2012, 20:26
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/533077_205700459549158_123466191105919_339137_1833656884_n.jpg

Dont wonder ask old King Arthur, he has the EW crystal ball that is always correct.

rgregoryb
05-26-2012, 21:18
Dont wonder ask old King Arthur, he has the EW crystal ball that is always correct.

nice game of dodge ball

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j174/raredog/dodgeball.gif