If you had to pick a .22LR load for self defense, which would you choose? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RMTactical
05-19-2012, 14:52
Are Velocitors the hardest hitting .22LR load? I would think so.

Yes, crappy self defense caliber, but please humor me.

Blackshirts
05-19-2012, 14:59
Any .22lr HP with many loaded mags available. I don't think the difference between standard velocity and high velocity is going to make much difference. It will be the number of holes you can punch in them.

RMTactical
05-19-2012, 15:06
Any .22lr HP with many loaded mags available. I don't think the difference between standard velocity and high velocity is going to make much difference. It will be the number of holes you can punch in them.

Really? I would think that ANY advantage you can get in the energy dept would be helpful with a .22LR. Such a small caliber bullet could easily be deflected by a bone or something.

Truth is, your same philosophy is also true of any caliber. What makes the shotgun so powerful is not one single 00 buck pellet (which is roughly equivalent to the same power as a round of .32ACP ball), but the collective firepower of 9 of them hitting at once.

jvbronco
05-19-2012, 15:24
Look up CCI Separator line. They are pre-cut in such a way that they separate into 3 (?) distinct pieces of lead that all split as they impact. In ballistics gel, they split into a pattern that resembles a tri-pod.


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Ida81
05-19-2012, 16:32
My initial thought was a CCI mini mag hollow point but with a bullet that small and light, maybe a FMJ would have more reliable penetration.

JBL13
05-19-2012, 19:01
I have several semiauto .22 handguns that are pre-positioned for bugging out when they're not with me at the range. I haven't tried every type of .22 ammo out there, but so far, the CCI Mini Mag is the only one to reliably run all of them (one eats anything, another one won't eat Federal bulk or Stingers, etc.). I keep a stash of hollow-point Mini Mags with each gun.

I hope I never have to discover if my round of choice will adequately protect me and mine against bad guys.

My .22 rifles and revolvers are less picky.

BurkGlocker
05-19-2012, 19:26
Look up CCI Separator line. They are pre-cut in such a way that they separate into 3 (?) distinct pieces of lead that all split as they impact. In ballistics gel, they split into a pattern that resembles a tri-pod.


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That would be the CCI Quik-Shok ammo, and would be what I would recommend for a 22LR.

Burk

vafish
05-19-2012, 20:54
Shooting someone with ANY .22lr is like stabbing them with an ice pick.

The most important thing is that the gun go bang when you need it.

I would go with the most reliable ammo in your gun.

Luckily with .22 lr you can afford to test many options.

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Titurel
05-20-2012, 05:34
I read an article a while back on this topic. Their conclusion was that the CCI SGB (small game bullet) was about as good as you could get. According to their tests the hollow point and pre fragmented bullets do not add to potential lethality in a self defense scenario and the fast, flat nosed SGB was better at penetration and, um, stopping power.

HAMMERHEAD
05-20-2012, 07:47
First I would start with CCI products. They have the most reliable priming in my experience. They must go bang.
From a carbine I would pick Velocitor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDo_PbAvJc
I got 1388 fps when I put Velocitors over the chrono (16" barrel), but they barely break the sound barrier from a handgun. Slow burning powder designed for long barrels.


Handgun? Stinger. Nickel plated case for sure feeding and easy extraction, high velocity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-HcehBj-Tc
Of course with the longer cartridge length you would have to make sure Stingers work in your gun. They are freeking awesome in my CZ Kadet.

guncats
05-20-2012, 14:40
any 22LR rounds will fall into the "too light" catagory for self defence, so the heavier the better. My vote goes to the Velocitor.

Stingers are pretty hot but a bit too light, won't go deep enough to reach the spine.

AZson
05-20-2012, 16:17
CCI Stinger is the best. I saw what they can do to a rabbit when I went hunting, it about blew it's neck off.
I attached a photo that a co-worker sent me when he went to the range. In the square are holes Stingers made from a Walther P-22 pistol using Stingers next to them are .45 acp holes. Hard to tell the difference hu?
They are the only ones my wife carries in her CCW gun.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=219568&d=1318123866

fastbolt
05-20-2012, 16:50
Depends what .22LR ammunition actually feeds, fires, extracts & ejects consistently reliably in your .. pistol, doesn't it?

Whenever I've seen diminutive .22 pistols brought through qual courses-of-fire, it was always one or another .22 shooter (usually a Beretta or Walther owner) that was holding up the line because of a stoppage or other malfunction, or the .22 loads they were using simply not igniting. Even the .25's did better ... :whistling:

One upon a time when I carried a pocket .22, it was loaded with Stingers. That was many years ago.

RMTactical
05-20-2012, 17:29
Depends what .22LR ammunition actually feed, fires, extracts & ejects consistently reliably in your .. pistol, doesn't it?


True. However, there are a variety of different types of .22's.

I guess it can boil down to, are you shooting a pistol or rifle? Is it semi, bolt action, revolver, etc? Those all play factors in whether it will function reliably and how well it will do ballistically.

fastbolt
05-20-2012, 18:28
True. However, there are a variety of different types of .22's.

I guess it can boil down to, are you shooting a pistol or rifle? Is it semi, bolt action, revolver, etc? Those all play factors in whether it will function reliably and how well it will do ballistically.

Yep, which is why I said it depends on what .22 ammo will work in your particular .22 (which you didn't identify, anyway).

I used to have outstanding luck with the Rem Golden Bullet of the 70's-90's. I also found the CCI Stinger to run well back toward the end of that period. The bargain W-W & Federal stuff was a coin toss. (I had less luck with the Fed stuff back then in some different .22's)

What's the .22 you're stuck using (meaning if you must use a .22), and what ammo have you tried in it and experienced consistently solid functioning?

What runs in my .22's may not do you much good at all.

Besides, the way .22 RF's are primed, and the QC of itty bitty .22 semi's, overall, can often make it a coin toss when it comes to finding a consistent brand that runs in any particular gun.

If I were once again going to do much shooting with .22's, especially semi's, I'd try some of the current CCI ammo and see how it ran nowdays.

No experience with the Velocitor's. Is it supposed to be better than Stingers?

Will your .22 run with them?

rem2429
05-20-2012, 20:28
Velociters.
Only other thing I would consider is cci mini mag 40 gr solid.
Penetration and reliability ate key considerations.

vafish
05-21-2012, 05:50
The most reliable .22 lr ammo I have seen is Ely Target ammo.

I've seen hundreds of thousands of rounds fired without a failure due to the ammo.



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eracer
05-21-2012, 06:36
I got 1388 fps when I put Velocitors over the chrono (16" barrel), but they barely break the sound barrier from a handgun. Slow burning powder designed for long barrels.Interesting.

I got 1366 avg. (10 shots) out of a 20" Savage barrel last weekend. Decent accuracy.

32gr Stingers ran 1560 out of that same barrel. Accuracy was horrible.

I tested ten different .22 LR rounds out of the Savage. Results will be posted later.

I plan to take the same rounds out and test them in my Mark II pistol, and my 16" Kimber, and my 20" Ruger 77/22, and my Ruger 10/22.

ETA - here's the link to the Savage test. (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18995087#post18995087)

glock_collector
05-21-2012, 09:44
CCI stingers get my vote if ya can find em...

ChuteTheMall
05-21-2012, 09:58
I plan to take the same rounds out and test them in my Mark II pistol, and my 16" Kimber, and my 20" Ruger 77/22, and my Ruger 10/22.

Please also test them out of a short barrel pocket pistol or revolver if you can, since this thread seems to be about self defense options.

HAMMERHEAD
05-21-2012, 15:34
Interesting.

I got 1366 avg. (10 shots) out of a 20" Savage barrel last weekend. Decent accuracy.

32gr Stingers ran 1560 out of that same barrel. Accuracy was horrible.

I tested nine different .22 LR rounds out of the Savage. Results will be posted later.

I plan to take the same rounds out and test them in my Mark II pistol, and my 16" Kimber, and my 20" Ruger 77/22, and my Ruger 10/22.

Yeah, Stingers aren't very accurate in my 10/22 or my CZ Scout either (1-1/2" to 2" @ 50 yds) but they shoot very, very well in every auto pistol I've tried them in (Kadet, Mark II, Sig P220 conversion).

I don't run many Stingers through my Mark II, they will beat up the take down pin. The Kadet can handle them though.

Looking forward to your chrono testing. I don't have access to my buddies chrono anymore.

RMTactical
05-21-2012, 15:45
Yep, which is why I said it depends on what .22 ammo will work in your particular .22 (which you didn't identify, anyway).

I used to have outstanding luck with the Rem Golden Bullet of the 70's-90's. I also found the CCI Stinger to run well back toward the end of that period. The bargain W-W & Federal stuff was a coin toss. (I had less luck with the Fed stuff back then in some different .22's)

What's the .22 you're stuck using (meaning if you must use a .22), and what ammo have you tried in it and experienced consistently solid functioning?

What runs in my .22's may not do you much good at all.

Besides, the way .22 RF's are primed, and the QC of itty bitty .22 semi's, overall, can often make it a coin toss when it comes to finding a consistent brand that runs in any particular gun.

If I were once again going to do much shooting with .22's, especially semi's, I'd try some of the current CCI ammo and see how it ran nowdays.

No experience with the Velocitor's. Is it supposed to be better than Stingers?

Will your .22 run with them?

If only I only had ONE .22LR.

Don't you know, you can't have just one.

The velocitors are a 40gr bullet vs a 32gr Stinger. The Velocitors are suppose to get 1400+fps and the stingers get 1600+fps (this is what they say on the box, obviously it depends on the barrel length, etc).

I agree with your assessment that sometimes we are "stuck" with a certain load, however, there tends to be certain loads that are good and work well in a variety of most guns out there. I understand this, and I do my own testing in my different guns for that reason.

However, I expected more than one answer too. Was trying to see if we could get a few that come highly recommended though or if folks have any experience with these various calibers.

All of my .22LR ballistic experience is limited to small varmints such as whistle pigs (usually using Stingers for this), so it isn't very applicable for this particular question.

HAMMERHEAD
05-21-2012, 16:02
The most reliable .22 lr ammo I have seen is Ely Target ammo.

I've seen hundreds of thousands of rounds fired without a failure due to the ammo.

Good ammo to be sure, but standard/target velocity ammo isn't the most reliable for cycling semi autos, especially in cold weather.

For the ultimate in rimfire reliability, I guess revolvers and bolt actions would be the way to go. I've never had a failure to fire with my bolt action rimfire rifles and the fix for a dud round in a revolver is just another pull of the trigger. Both handle any ammo including shorts and CB caps.

windplex
05-21-2012, 16:35
Look up CCI Separator line. They are pre-cut in such a way that they separate into 3 (?) distinct pieces of lead that all split as they impact. In ballistics gel, they split into a pattern that resembles a tri-pod.


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JV, any link to ballistic test - did several google searches without luck. thank you!

Arc Angel
05-21-2012, 16:41
Just had this conversation with one of my brothers-in-law. Personally, I'd go with one of these from Aguila. (In fact, I probably will!) :)

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=AU1B222297

http://www.eabco.com/store/products/Aguila_Interceptor_22_Ammo_Hyper_Velocity_22_Ammo-1492-99.html

eracer
05-21-2012, 16:46
Yeah, Stingers aren't very accurate in my 10/22 or my CZ Scout either (1-1/2" to 2" @ 50 yds) but they shoot very, very well in every auto pistol I've tried them in (Kadet, Mark II, Sig P220 conversion).

I don't run many Stingers through my Mark II, they will beat up the take down pin. The Kadet can handle them though.

Looking forward to your chrono testing. I don't have access to my buddies chrono anymore.Good to know. Thanks.

Check my original post here for a link to the ammo test thread I just started.

RMTactical
05-21-2012, 18:05
Just had this conversation with one of my brothers-in-law. Personally, I'd go with one of these from Aguila. (In fact, I probably will!) :)

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=AU1B222297

http://www.eabco.com/store/products/Aguila_Interceptor_22_Ammo_Hyper_Velocity_22_Ammo-1492-99.html

Cool, thanks for that. I could use a faster .22lr load than the stingers for varmint hunting. I have been trying to find ways to justify not getting a 17 mach 2 for my next bolt gun. I kind of want to stick with the .22LR if I can help it.

93GT
05-21-2012, 19:37
CCI Mini Mag 40 gr solids. I don't carry a 22LR, but these are what I buy for my friends who insist on giving their wives 22LR pistols. Reliably fire and offer good penetration as far as a 22LR goes.

Peter_72
05-21-2012, 21:56
Lots of talk about penetration and stopping power but the real question is this....How many people that have just been shot with a .22 actually keep walking/running towards a gun that has more rounds in it ready to go? I personally have not been shot by one but I was 10 feet away from a friend that was shot twice in the stomach with a .22, it didn't knock him down like a larger caliber would have but he went down all the same!

RMTactical
05-21-2012, 22:39
Lots of talk about penetration and stopping power but the real question is this....How many people that have just been shot with a .22 actually keep walking/running towards a gun that has more rounds in it ready to go? I personally have not been shot by one but I was 10 feet away from a friend that was shot twice in the stomach with a .22, it didn't knock him down like a larger caliber would have but he went down all the same!

I don't think anyone wants to get shot with a .22LR, but there are many examples of people who have been shot with larger calibers and continued to fight.

The guy who did all the damage in the Miami shootout was mortally wounded before he continued to shoot and kill other FBI agents.

That said, a .22LR, when put in the right spot will likely get the job done much of the time. I still prefer something bigger if I can get it. If not, the .22LR is better than nothing.

Foxtrotx1
05-22-2012, 00:40
40 grain minimum, Reliability being primary concern. European match ammo made in low round count batches is what i use. An extra 100 fps from a sub 3 inch barrel isn't making a difference.

93GT
05-22-2012, 06:41
Lots of talk about penetration and stopping power but the real question is this....How many people that have just been shot with a .22 actually keep walking/running towards a gun that has more rounds in it ready to go? I personally have not been shot by one but I was 10 feet away from a friend that was shot twice in the stomach with a .22, it didn't knock him down like a larger caliber would have but he went down all the same!

My opinion and probably repeating some of what other people have said without any sources to back it up.

90% of people will stop at the mere threat of death or serious bodily harm, another 5% will stop when they experience pain physically and the threat of death is iminent, and the last 5% won't stop until physically incapacitated by blood loss or CNS destruction. (Yes I made those numbers up)

I personally am not carrying a pistol for the first 95%, but for the last 5%. If forced to carry a 22 LR for lack of a better option, I am not relying on blood loss to stop the fight. CNS hits (accuracy) (if I am skilled/lucky enough to place shots well enough), penetration, and reliability are the main things I am worried about and not necessarily in that order. Anything else like expansion, an extra 100 fps, reduced flash, reduced recoil, better performance on groundhogs, etc... isn't really on the list of concerns. Just my humble opinion. Mostly likely inaccurate, but it is how ideas are rolling around in my head when someone says this 22 LR pistol is the only thing you can concealed carry.

Peter_72
05-22-2012, 11:04
Just to be clear, I wouldn't even consider a .22lr or even a .22mag as a choice for self defense unless it's the only choice.

If forced to carry a 22 LR for lack of a better option, I am not relying on blood loss to stop the fight. CNS hits (accuracy) (if I am skilled/lucky enough to place shots well enough), penetration, and reliability are the main things I am worried about

Excellent point! The thing is that any .22lr round can penetrate the human body, the very little difference between .22lr rounds will not be the difference in stopping someone.

Depends what .22LR ammunition actually feeds, fires, extracts & ejects consistently reliably in your .. pistol, doesn't it?

If you are determined to carry a .22 the above advise seems like the best way to choose the ammo that you will have to depend on. All .22lr will hurt but not all will work well with your weapon.

cowboywannabe
05-22-2012, 11:25
depends on the gun i have to use.

Dexters
05-22-2012, 13:52
I think when comparing 22lr foot pounds need to be considered.

http://www.reloadammo.com/footpound2.htm

Bluescot
05-22-2012, 18:34
It wouldn't be my preference but a pocket pistol with Velocitors would get my vote as having the weight and velocity for penetration.

One of our sons was doing a one of his rotations in medical school in a Cleveland emergency room and treated a lot of gunshot wounds there. I asked him what he learned, as he is a big hunter with rifle and bow, and he said that a .40 and a .45 will get er done. Wasn't terribly impressed with the 9mm or the .22lr.

Did treat a guy that was shot 3 times with a .22lr and lived just fine, once coming in the stomach and twice leaving in the back and shoulder.

bac1023
05-24-2012, 04:37
Certainly one of the CCI loads.

eracer
05-24-2012, 05:04
Please also test them out of a short barrel pocket pistol or revolver if you can, since this thread seems to be about self defense options.I think the shortest barrel I have is 4".

SWAMPTHANG
05-24-2012, 13:11
I keep CCI Stingers in my revolver since they are pretty hot and readily available locally. Like you said not the best defense round but, most people aint going to be hanging around when your firing regardless of what you are shooting. My first choice is my Glock but, the .22 is a good backup.

HAMMERHEAD
05-24-2012, 19:21
One 'advantage' of Stingers from a short barreled pistol is they sound like a clap of thunder. Might scare off the rest of the pack of 'wolves' just from the intimidating sound. ;)

mboylan
05-24-2012, 19:39
CCI Stinger is the best. I saw what they can do to a rabbit when I went hunting, it about blew it's neck off.
I attached a photo that a co-worker sent me when he went to the range. In the square are holes Stingers made from a Walther P-22 pistol using Stingers next to them are .45 acp holes. Hard to tell the difference hu?
They are the only ones my wife carries in her CCW gun.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=219568&d=1318123866

So they might blow up in the surface layers of tissue without penetrating. I would want the heaviest most solid bullets I could get.

jolly roger
05-24-2012, 20:10
Seen several shootings where a 22 rifle was used. It was effective. According to witnesses quickly effective. Pistol? Not so much. Kind of like a 25ACP. Either drop someone like a rock or really pee them off. We had one where a guy got shot in the face several times with a 22 Jennings then took a car jack out of his trunk and dang near beat the shooter to death. It's all about velocity in the rifle I guess. I personally think the 22 rifle is relatively effective.

FFR Spyder GT
05-25-2012, 11:57
Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration


Ask anyone who has pouched whitetail deer with a 22LR and that's what they will say.

I have a Jennings J22 and a suppressed Walther P22 and my choice of SD ammo for either would be the Aguila SSS 60gr loading. Next choice would be any of the hotter 40gr solids.

Using wet phone books and water jugs filled with shredded newspaper ( the free thrifty nickel works great!) I get the best penetration from the 60gr SSS.

Spyder

Peter_72
05-25-2012, 12:53
Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Penetration

Ask anyone who has pouched whitetail deer with a 22LR and that's what they will say.



For that situation shot placement is more important IMO...There's a reason their eyes glow in the light!

jolly roger
05-25-2012, 18:24
Hey eracer...Love that avatar! Foghorn Leghorn is da MAN :)

SWAMPTHANG
05-27-2012, 17:26
One 'advantage' of Stingers from a short barreled pistol is they sound like a clap of thunder. Might scare off the rest of the pack of 'wolves' just from the intimidating sound. ;)

They are a little loud coming from a 6" barrel. My dog doesn't hang around when I am shooting them.:dog:

Veedubklown
05-27-2012, 19:51
They are a little loud coming from a 6" barrel. My dog doesn't hang around when I am shooting them.:dog:
They definately make more of a pop from my tec-22.

wjv
05-29-2012, 11:35
HAMMERHEAD got it right. . .

CCF
06-06-2012, 00:00
Spyder & I agree. I'd go with the Aguila 60 grain Sniper Sub Sonic round. Not particularly accurate out of a handgun, but they penetrate surprisingly well. Aguila SSS also tumbles out of most handguns which could produce a nasty wound. And unlike a lot of subsonic ammo, they cycle in most semi-autos.

Bilbo Bagins
06-07-2012, 09:39
Velociters.
Only other thing I would consider is cci mini mag 40 gr solid.
Penetration and reliability ate key considerations.

+1
Brassfetchers old website had a test with Velociters penetrating 14" of gel coming out of a Walther P22.

Stinger are more likey to expand, and have poor penetration out of a handgun barrel.

22LR CCI 40gr Velocitor PLHP from a handgun ballistic gelatin slow motion - YouTube

For a rifle I would use CCI or Aguila 60 grain sub sonics. Out of all the subsonics, I think the Aguila would be the most deadly on human targets.