A Glock's Biggest Weakness? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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IrishRifles
05-20-2012, 20:32
I ask because I'm fairly new to Glock.
What would you say from actual experiences, is a Glock's biggest weakness(es)? :dunno:

Reb 56
05-20-2012, 20:40
Wierd grip angle and the Gen 4.

tgmr05
05-20-2012, 20:42
Factory non-metal sights


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WoodenPlank
05-20-2012, 20:43
The grip - bad angle, and badly shaped backstrap. The only ones that fit my hand for crap are the full size small frame guns (17/22/31).

ithaca_deerslayer
05-20-2012, 20:49
Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but the strength of the passive safety system in being easy to draw and shoot is also a potential weakness in reholstering.

I've read enough stories of accidental discharge caused by clothing or ill fitting holsters pressing against the trigger upon reholstering.

My solution is to be very aware of that potential, to have a good holster that fits well, and to look the gun into my holster.

Other people may have other priorities and approach things differently.

12131
05-20-2012, 20:55
There are no weaknesses, if you get a hold of the RTF2. Jmo, of course.

paulbow
05-20-2012, 20:57
Their inability to release the Gen 4 G20 in a timely manner.

twag4
05-20-2012, 20:58
The shooter

Boats
05-20-2012, 21:14
They've kept making them worse since Gen 2.5, when they should have stopped trying to "improve" them.

countrygun
05-20-2012, 21:24
\the owners, and the expectations of soon-to-be- first time gun owners.

Berto
05-20-2012, 21:25
Their brick-like ergos and blocky profile.

Happypuppy
05-20-2012, 21:31
Ugly. They look like how I use to draw a gun when I was a little kid. I bought 2 , a 19 and a 23 for my son. I have swapped the sights to big dots and we have put over 1000 rounds through both of Winchester and UMC FMJ. No drama, misfeeds, jams , wierd ejection etc with either. They just go bang when you pull the trigger.


Sent from my 300 baud modem

IrishRifles
05-20-2012, 21:33
Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but the strength of the passive safety system in being easy to draw and shoot is also a potential weakness in reholstering.

"I've read enough stories of accidental discharge caused by clothing or ill fitting holsters pessing against the trigger upon reholstering."

My solution is to be very aware of that potential, to have a good holster that fits well, and to look the gun into my holster.

Other people may have other priorities and approach things differently.

Yes...
I've had some deputies tell me of this happening to some of them.
A nerve-racking consideration that made me hesitate in buying one, initially.

Wil Ufgood
05-20-2012, 21:48
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg

Metal Angel
05-20-2012, 21:50
The passive safety can be a weakness or a strength, depending how you look at it. I don't want to have to find a little thumb switch if I need a bullet to leave the barrel.

Metal Angel
05-20-2012, 21:51
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg

Bullet setback?

Wil Ufgood
05-20-2012, 21:54
Bullet setback?

Probably, not mine!

IrishRifles
05-20-2012, 21:57
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg

What would Glock charge to replace that or could they?

cowboy1964
05-20-2012, 22:00
Slide serrations suck if your hands are not perfectly dry.

CBennett
05-20-2012, 22:00
I ask because I'm fairly new to Glock.
What would you say from actual experiences, is a Glock's biggest weakness(es)? :dunno:

industries WORST grips. The Glock so far(and I've handled,shot a lot of pistols/revolvers in the last 25 years) has the most horrid grips I've ever had/felt on a pistol. The ONLY gun I can say I can't own(with one exception being the glock 36) is the Glock its grips/grip angle are THAT bad.

and to prove a point I didn't read any of the thread or answers first just read the title of the post and I'm betting I'm not the only one that says the BAD grips.

IrishRifles
05-20-2012, 22:02
I remember reading a while back about the NYPD recalling some 24 k Glocks due to jamming and frequent failure to ejects?

PlasticGuy
05-20-2012, 22:04
Steep grip angle, crappy trigger, Gen 4 recoil assembly, thicker than necessary plastic mags that require a thicker than necessary grip, plastic sights, plastic guide rod...

TxGlock9
05-20-2012, 22:10
Agree with the grip angle and blocky handle.

skeeter7
05-20-2012, 22:22
+1 on the grip angle being bad.

TSAX
05-20-2012, 22:53
Is causing us to dream about the Glock 18 and not making a contribution (paying off) to some politician to making it legal so we can all own one :supergrin:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQIT2auqLnY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI







:50cal:

GunFooMaster
05-20-2012, 22:59
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg

Wow, did the extractor pin blow off?

TalkToTheGlock
05-20-2012, 23:02
No sex appeal.

GunFooMaster
05-20-2012, 23:07
A Glock's Biggest Weakness?

They stopped caring. Wish they would try something new other than these measly aesthetic changes.

TxGlock9
05-20-2012, 23:21
A Glock's Biggest Weakness?

They stopped caring. Wish they would try something new other than these measly aesthetic changes.

:thumbsup:

Firefightermdc
05-20-2012, 23:27
+5 on the bad grip angle, it's what steered me away from glock for a while and toward the SA xd camp, but their reliability is such a strength, I guess te shooter adapts to the grip angle

oldnoob
05-21-2012, 00:04
Internet rumors.

TSAX
05-21-2012, 00:10
Internet rumors.

:number1:..................:rofl:








:50cal:

Metal Angel
05-21-2012, 00:16
I think Glock's biggest weakness is how crappy a company they are. They make an extremely reliable, reasonably accurate, fairly priced handgun, so people buy it and adapt to its flaws. Glock doesn't care about me. I care about Glock. It's a one sided relationship. It could be better, but it doesn't have to be better to sell, so Glock doesn't even try.

Thing is, there are so many good manufacturers making great guns that you don't need Glock to make that single stack 9, or carbine, or improve the grip angle. I love my Glock 19, and will never sell it. It's awesome. But when I am ready to buy something Glock is too stupid to make, I will be happy to give my money to a company that cares about what I want. (or is at least still interested in doing market research and innovating accordingly)

WarEagle32
05-21-2012, 00:19
Glocks are absolutely excellent pistols! The Gen 4's don't have many weaknesses IMO. The previous generation Glocks have a thick grip.

voyager4520
05-21-2012, 00:24
They're more prone to limp-wristing than other guns.

TSAX
05-21-2012, 00:26
I think Glock's biggest weakness is how crappy a company they are. They make an extremely reliable, reasonably accurate, fairly priced handgun, so people buy it and adapt to its flaws. Glock doesn't care about me. I care about Glock. It's a one sided relationship. It could be better, but it doesn't have to be better to sell, so Glock doesn't even try.

Thing is, there are so many good manufacturers making great guns that you don't need Glock to make that single stack 9, or carbine, or improve the grip angle. I love my Glock 19, and will never sell it. It's awesome. But when I am ready to buy something Glock is too stupid to make, I will be happy to give my money to a company that cares about what I want. (or is at least still interested in doing market research and innovating accordingly)

I can understand some of your views and dont disagree with some points. But they do care to an extent and maybe not to your satisfaction but this guy was really happy and if I shot 100k through my gun and they sent me a new one Id be happy as heck. Maybe his story is a once in a blue moon thing :dunno:.

www.glocktalk.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=18924054

I bought my first Glock 34 for IDPA in 2003. I shot the snot out of this gun. It has had at least 100,000 rounds through it. I liked the 34 so much I bought a second one a few years ago. Well my original was not doing so well. It's 25 yard group was opening up to about a foot, compared to the 3 or 4 inch groups I could get from my newer 34.

So I sent it back to Glock to see if there was anything that could be done. Well they just sent me a brand new Glock 34!

I just want to say THANK YOU GLOCK.
this company is the best!

Peace
River







:50cal:

Novocaine
05-21-2012, 00:43
Sights and trigger

NEOH212
05-21-2012, 02:59
I ask because I'm fairly new to Glock.
What would you say from actual experiences, is a Glock's biggest weakness(es)? :dunno:

In the past few years, I would say quality control. However, that seem to be getting much better as of late.

On a more minor note, the plastic sights aren't the most durable, but are easily changed.

I'd say the weakest link in the Glock is the trigger spring but it's rarely a problem.

Other than that, they are good to go.

By the way, I love the Gen 4 guns!

:cool:

DaBurna
05-21-2012, 03:09
Is causing us to dream about the Glock 18 and not making a contribution (paying off) to some politician to making it legal so we can all own one :supergrin:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQIT2auqLnY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQIT2auqLnY)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI)







:50cal:

Sir... I see your vid and raise this....:tongueout::rofl:

Glock 298 rounds in full auto - Parody - YouTube

NEOH212
05-21-2012, 03:46
Bullet setback?

No, Chuck Norris pulled the trigger a little hard. He was used to a DA/SA!

:rofl:

bac1023
05-21-2012, 04:19
They've kept making them worse since Gen 2.5, when they should have stopped trying to "improve" them.

This^

ithaca_deerslayer
05-21-2012, 04:26
The g4 grip is a huge improvement over some of the previous complaints in this thread about both blockiness and grip angle. The thinner grip (still have the choice of thick or thicker with the backstraps) makes it possible for me to hold the gun in a way that the grip angle doesn't bother me. The earlier versions didn't allow that.

Therefore I suggest that for those who do not like the grip angle, that you try the g4 without extra backstraps and see if it has improved for you. Technically the interior angle hasn't changed, but how it feels on the outside has :)

clancy
05-21-2012, 04:32
I think I dislike the grip angle and trigger about equally.

TJx
05-21-2012, 04:47
Gaston

Patchman
05-21-2012, 04:50
Grip angle. And plastic grip becomes "slippery" after repeated use. Overall fugly looking gun.

byf43
05-21-2012, 05:17
While not necessarily a 'weakness', the grip angle is not 'that great' for those of us that really like the 1911 grip angle.
The 1911 and Browning Hi-Power platform has a 'perfect' grip angle, to me. :thumbsup:

The Glock is more akin to the P08 Luger. If memory serves me, Bill Ruger designed his .22 Mk I, etc. on the Luger, too.

Eh. . . . I've gotten used to the grip angle of the Glock, but, the 1911 is much more comfortable, to me.

Using a good holster and keeping 'stuff' away from the trigger, while re-holstering, will keep ND/AD from occuring.

I'm not a big fan of the 'finger grooves' on my Glock(s), either, but, I'm not grinding them off.

Still. . . . . . all of my Glocks are good shooters.

checkyoursix
05-21-2012, 05:27
Plastic sights, trigger needs 3.5 connector, these are easily fixed. The grip is a bigger issue as many have pointed out. Not familiar yet with Gen 4, would love a G34 but it's a chimera still.

Baba Louie
05-21-2012, 05:57
Probably the number of cops who've shot themselves in the leg while being the only ones professional enough... :whistling:

But I dunno if it's Glock's fault or not.. :dunno:

Keep everthing out of the triggerguard while reholstering and mine seem to work fine. So far.

Rally Vincent
05-21-2012, 06:08
Probably the number of cops who've shot themselves in the leg while being the only ones professional enough... :whistling:

But I dunno if it's Glock's fault or not.. :dunno:

Keep everthing out of the triggerguard while reholstering and mine seem to work fine. So far.


No doubt.

maxpower220
05-21-2012, 06:11
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg

Somehow, it probably still shoots fine.

BuckyP
05-21-2012, 06:24
Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but the strength of the passive safety system in being easy to draw and shoot is also a potential weakness in reholstering.

I've read enough stories of accidental discharge caused by clothing or ill fitting holsters pressing against the trigger upon reholstering.

My solution is to be very aware of that potential, to have a good holster that fits well, and to look the gun into my holster.

Other people may have other priorities and approach things differently.

:goodpost:

I agree. Other guns give you a physical preventative measure, safety, thumb on hammer of DA auto, thumb off grip safety (XD). GLOCK and now others (like the M&P), you just have to be a little more vigilant when holstering. That being said, I do CCW a GLOCK.


I'd say the weakest link in the Glock is the trigger spring but it's rarely a problem.


Parts wise, yes this. I've replaced several at matches for people over the years.

racer88
05-21-2012, 06:29
There must be something wrong with me. For as long as I've had a Glock (first one around 1992), I've heard about this "grip angle" thing. Now, I've got Glocks and other handguns. I don't own a 1911, but I've shot them. In the same range session, I've gone back and forth between a 1911 and a Glock and not see ANY difference in my groups or ability to hit the target in the center. I just don't notice any difference. I put the sights on the target, and voila! The rounds hit where I aim.

I did laugh recently, reading an article... I forget where (internet or magazine), where triggers were described thusly:

1911 = "CLICK."

Glock = "SPROING!" :rofl:

I'm used to the Glock trigger, but I do understand the complaints about it.

The grip angle, on the other hand... I just don't get it (or experience it). :dunno:

mrsurfboard
05-21-2012, 06:34
Grip, Grip and the Grip. Main reason I can't shoot the Glock well. Otherwise It's a great platform.

deputy tom
05-21-2012, 07:02
The grip on most models is too thick for my hands. Only the 17 fits close enough.The grip angle isn't a problem for me. YMMV.tom.

ChicagoZman
05-21-2012, 07:43
Its biggest weakness is that it doesn't really need anything done to it to make it work properly. Irritates a lot of gun smiths and limits aftermarket suppliers.

SigFTW
05-21-2012, 08:11
Biggest weakness, Nothing!

Look at Glock's counter part Tupperware, does it have a weakness?? :tongueout:

hoghunter82
05-21-2012, 08:12
That they don't come standard with a welder's helmet to protect you from brass in the face. It would make the gun case a bit larger.

I agree with what someone said above. Should have stopped trying to enhance perfection after Gen 2.5


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H&K 4 LIFE
05-21-2012, 08:36
In my experience and subsequent opinion, it's actually difficult to find any real fault in the Glock pistol...

- The Glock grip angle of about 110 degrees fits me just about perfect. The gun sits low in the hand, somewhat mitigating felt recoil and muzzle flip.

- Glocks are relatively slim and lightweight while still maintaining decent magazine capacity for their size. They are also free of any sharp corners and devoid of any unnecessary protruding buttons/levers.

- The Glock factory trigger is easy to learn and more than adequate for a self-defense handgun.

- Glock magazines are durable (I have never had a single problem with a Glock magazine) and are reasonably priced.

- Glocks Tenifer finish is extremely resistant to corrosion, holster wear and surface scratches.

- Glocks are generally very reliable, and I can count the stoppages I have had in my Glock pistols on one hand (twice, both directly attributed to defective ammo).

- Glocks require very little in the way of maintenance and will continue to run even with a multitude of different parts broken/missing.

- Nothing in a Glock pistol requires any kind of custom fitting of internal parts so replacements are "plug and play", easily accomplished on the end-user level without the need for a gunsmith. In addition, parts are inexpensive and able to be acquired with little effort.

About the only thing I do not like about the Glock is the stock plastic sights, which are easily replaced.

countsk
05-21-2012, 08:43
They've kept making them worse since Gen 2.5, when they should have stopped trying to "improve" them.


Amen!!!

CBennett
05-21-2012, 08:51
Grip, Grip and the Grip. Main reason I can't shoot the Glock well. Otherwise It's a great platform.

I can actually shoot the Glock great...but I also cant stand the grip and with a TON of other guns that are just as good and reliable on the market it was a easy choice to say...hmmm get another gun just as reliable and accurate WITH a good grip angle/ergonomics...or keep shooting the one with a bad grip angle..choice was easy to me...I got a gun that fit well in hand, shot just as good and was just as reliable instead :) the Ruger SR9c :)

CBennett
05-21-2012, 08:55
In my experience and subsequent opinion, it's actually difficult to find any real fault in the Glock pistol...



- Glocks are relatively slim and lightweight while still maintaining decent magazine capacity for their size. They are also free of any sharp corners and devoid of any unnecessary protruding buttons/levers.


:rofl:

must have gotten one of the Glock 36 cause thats the ONLY glock(and the other single stacks) that are even close to being realtively slim lol...(the Glock 36 is the ONLY Glock id own cause it actually fits my hand and thats most likely cause it actually IS slim unlike the 99% majority of the other chunky/blocky thick glocks..

mrsurfboard
05-21-2012, 08:58
- Glocks Tenifer finish is extremely resistant to corrosion, holster wear and surface scratches.


Repeat after me, Tenifer is not a finish, it is a metal treatment. What you see on the gun, is not Tenifer. The only thing Tenifer does out of the things you mentioned is resistant to corrosion.

byf43
05-21-2012, 09:07
- Glocks are relatively slim and lightweight while still maintaining decent magazine capacity for their size. They are also free of any sharp corners and devoid of any unnecessary protruding buttons/levers.




I've heard Glocks called a lot of things, but, NEVER 'slim'!! :rofl:
(Even the G36 has some 'width' to it.)

H&K 4 LIFE
05-21-2012, 09:22
Repeat after me, Tenifer is not a finish, it is a metal treatment. What you see on the gun, is not Tenifer. The only thing Tenifer does out of the things you mentioned is resistant to corrosion.

I understand this, the black color is a phosphate coating. By Tenifer "finish" I intended to mean the entire process done to protect the slide.

I apologize for any confusion.

I've heard Glocks called a lot of things, but, NEVER 'slim'!! :rofl:
(Even the G36 has some 'width' to it.)

I do think that, for instance, the Glock 17 remains a rather slim pistol for a fullsize handgun holding 17 rounds of ammunition when compared to other pistols in this same class.

BuckyP
05-21-2012, 09:27
Its biggest weakness is that it doesn't really need anything done to it to make it work properly. Irritates a lot of gun smiths and limits aftermarket suppliers.

Being that there are more aftermarket parts available for GLOCK than for any other handgun, with the exception of a 1911, I'd say the aftermarket suppliers are doing just fine.

carloglock19
05-21-2012, 10:28
The stock sights but those can easily be upgraded or replaced. Just my opinion.

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esh325
05-21-2012, 12:01
I'm not saying the Glock doesn't have weaknesses, but the problem is that all the issues people are bringing up are largely subjective. The grip angle being poor or great is largely subjective. The trigger, being poor or great is largely subjective.

TSAX
05-21-2012, 12:18
Sir... I see your vid and raise this....:tongueout::rofl:

Glock 298 rounds in full auto - Parody - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J-EKzMApeE&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

:animlol:............:number1:










:50cal:

TSAX
05-21-2012, 12:21
The stock sights but those can easily be upgraded or replaced. Just my opinion.

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:agree::goodpost:, it is much easier than the other pistols out there. I know the whole "plastic" part can be damage but its an quick/easy change.









:50cal:

40 0'Glock
05-21-2012, 13:51
The Glock trigger is the single reason I prefer shooting all my other pistols. It feels like 2 separate pulls and is not conducive to accuracy for me. I'd take a smooth but heavy true DA trigger over the Glock trigger anyday.

poodleplumber
05-21-2012, 14:23
There must be something wrong with me. For as long as I've had a Glock (first one around 1992), I've heard about this "grip angle" thing. Now, I've got Glocks and other handguns. I don't own a 1911, but I've shot them. In the same range session, I've gone back and forth between a 1911 and a Glock and not see ANY difference in my groups or ability to hit the target in the center. I just don't notice any difference. I put the sights on the target, and voila! The rounds hit where I aim.

Whatever is wrong with you, I have it, too.

Folks who have a different preference in grip angle, or trigger, or the availability of a thumb safety have other choices. From my point of view, those are preferences, not design weakness.

CBennett
05-21-2012, 14:45
I'm not saying the Glock doesn't have weaknesses, but the problem is that all the issues people are bringing up are largely subjective. The grip angle being poor or great is largely subjective. The trigger, being poor or great is largely subjective.


true, but on most guns when you ask why you dislike most of the time it wont include the grip/grip angle..Im betting if you listed HK,Sig,M&P,Steyr,Ruger,Taurus,CZ,Khar(thinking of all the other major manufacturers) and said what most do you dislike about these guns im betting the grips/grip angle would NOT come up very much. Your 100% CORRECT in that its subjective..but just to think had Glock did something as simple as put a more "normal"(as in basically any grip/grip angle ANY of the other manufacturers) grip on the glock they would make MANY more people happy...its the ONLY thing that keeps me away anymore.(unless I ever find a Glock 36 for a realistic price used)

PimpStick
05-21-2012, 15:09
No single-stack 9.

Nestor
05-21-2012, 15:17
Pistol is ok. Business model sucks in my opinion. They are very suggestion proof in terms of the civilian market. Always were. People were asking for ages for some basic improvements - like grip angle and thickness of it, crappy plastic sights, spongy trigger - just some examples, but Glock kept ignoring that selling perfection BS over and over again. Well, now there are many pistols with the same level of reliability and much better ergonomics for similar or even lower price. It's just a bit too late for Glock to improve the platform now, as they lost many customers to the competition. Oh...well, that's what happen when You don't give a crap about your customers' needs. Again, pistol is ok.

JAS104
05-21-2012, 15:32
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg

Good lord how did you manage that? :shocked:

Paul7
05-21-2012, 15:34
No real safety, and from my experience, unreliability.

Magus
05-21-2012, 17:10
I'd say mainly they don't listen to their consumer base. There's a lot of designs/models/changes etc. that many of us who were Glock enthusiasts requested for many years and they flat out ignored or under delivered on in the rare occasion they did listen.

Other manufactures though have listened and that's ultimately Glocks loss.

Quality control isn't what it used to be. I'm not singling out the Gen4's. Two brand new Gen 3's I got last year were more than problematic. Having owned quite a few Glocks in the last 15 years that worked perfectly, needless to say I was disappointed with my last two. Getting two duds in a row does not make you feel warm n' fuzzy.

There's still a big part of me that's a Glock fan, but just not of where they are as a company right now and what they're producing.

DonGlock26
05-21-2012, 17:25
Fingergrooves.


_

nipperwolf
05-21-2012, 18:21
unreliability.

:rofl: :rofl:

Nestor
05-21-2012, 19:02
:rofl: :rofl:

Actually my G17 wasn't all that reliable as well.
Gen 3 to be exact.

thesid
05-21-2012, 19:17
Kathrin Veldener Tschikof

sawfiler
05-21-2012, 19:36
inability to shoot cast bullets with factory barrel. at least to me. I use aftermarket barrels with conventional rifling and let the lead fly!

michael_b
05-21-2012, 19:43
The poor ergonomics.

Whats this? +15? Lol

Gen 4 was a nice improvement.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2

Teecher45
05-21-2012, 20:30
Steep grip angle, crappy trigger, Gen 4 recoil assembly, thicker than necessary plastic mags that require a thicker than necessary grip, plastic sights, plastic guide rod...
Actually, this is one of my favorite aspects of the Glock. I've spent a lot of time on the range, especially with LE. Seen Glock mags dropped, kicked, stepped-on, about everything you can think of. Never caused an issue. Picked them up, blew them off, reloaded and kept going.
Now, metal mags are another story.

Cole125
05-21-2012, 20:42
Internet rumors.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.

Nothing weak about Glocks, they go bang when they are supposed to. They don't go bang when they aren't.

They go bang a lot of times.

Paul53
05-21-2012, 21:37
Glock's biggest weakness is the same as any cars, the nut that holds the wheel.

TexasPOff
05-21-2012, 22:14
IMHO their biggest weakness is they have engineers that don't shoot designing the pistols. No offense to any engineers out there who actually shoot.

Glock would do much better by at least having some type of workshop involving some real world shooters giving input on what could/would be good for the next generation of Glocks. I'm not talking about the media divas that have TV shows or shooting schools, I'm talking about average Joe's, and then actually using some of the ideas. TXPO

Lowjiber
05-22-2012, 05:10
Their brick-like ergos and blocky profile.That's because they were designed by Woody Woodpecker.:whistling:

ponchsox
05-22-2012, 05:34
Glock has been regarded as the #1 pistol in the world for many years but the last decade or so a lack of innovation has caught up to them. Smith & Wesson has taken Glock's platform and improved it with better ergos and more concealable guns while Glock assumes it will still sell its traditional pistols. While Glock is still a strong seller, they are losing market share to other companies who are also building great guns that consumers want.

JAS104
05-22-2012, 07:02
As a few other guys have said in the thread, one of the biggest flaws with Glock is the rumors and hype.

But Irish, what are you looking for specifically in a pistol? Maybe we can lead you in the right direction.

TN.Frank
05-22-2012, 07:30
Personally, I don't like the plastic sights, plastic trigger, plastic guide rod and regardless of what some of ya' say GLOCK says NOT to shoot lead bullets in their guns. Internet rumor or not, lead bullets and polygonal rifling don't mix.
I've owned 5 Glock handguns(19, 20, 29, 22 and 26) and IMHO the XD I just picked up has it all over the Glock.
It has metal sights, trigger and guide rod and standard rifling so I can shot all the lead ammo I want without any worries. Plus, it just plain feels better in the hand then any of the Glocks I owned did. Not hackin' on Glock, if you like em' that's great, personally I'd rather have my XD.

IrishRifles
05-22-2012, 10:23
As a few other guys have said in the thread, one of the biggest flaws with Glock is the rumors and hype.

But Irish, what are you looking for specifically in a pistol? Maybe we can lead you in the right direction.

Not looking, just curious because of what the NYPD had to do with there Glocks.
I already have mine. :supergrin:

Firefightermdc
05-22-2012, 13:07
Glock has been regarded as the #1 pistol in the world for many years but the last decade or so a lack of innovation has caught up to them. Smith & Wesson has taken Glock's platform and improved it with better ergos and more concealable guns while Glock assumes it will still sell its traditional pistols. While Glock is still a strong seller, they are losing market share to other companies who are also building great guns that consumers want.

Qft, I think that Glock is relying on the fact that what they have has worked well for them so why change it? Unfortunately many companies have matched glock and in some ways advanced on their design, while glock makes minimal changes that dont keep up

LawScholar
05-22-2012, 13:16
Qft, I think that Glock is relying on the fact that what they have has worked well for them so why change it? Unfortunately many companies have matched glock and in some ways advanced on their design, while glock makes minimal changes that dont keep up

I'll also agree with both of you. Glock made a truly fantastic product, and they still do, but a failure to innovate is fatal in business. The fact is, a LOT of companies have reached or nearly reached Glock. An M&P, XDM, and a number of other guns are reliable, functional, tough polymer service arms. Glock's ownership of the LE market will die by a thousand cuts in the next few decades if they fail to innovate.

Firefightermdc
05-22-2012, 13:54
So I guess a lot would agree that preference in handguns is not much of a weakness, I learned to love how my glocks feel after a few changes and tweaks. However failure to innovate is a major weakness in Glock overall

WhiskeyUnicorn
05-22-2012, 14:42
Biggest weakness, Nothing!

Look at Glock's counter part Tupperware, does it have a weakness?? :tongueout:

Melts in the dishwasher and ovens...But since I neither wash or cook my Glock in the kitchen...because my gf makes the sammiches...I'm good :tongueout:

PS I really do make the sammiches... :(

.45Super-Man
05-22-2012, 16:19
The Glocks "biggest weakness"? Well, the fanboys of course.:supergrin:

Boot Stomper
05-22-2012, 16:42
Factory non-metal sights


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Have you ever broken the factory plastic sights??

Original sights are very cheap to buy and replace.

A Glock hater once told me he disliked Glocks because "the factory sights will rust."

dosei
05-22-2012, 17:16
Have you ever broken the factory plastic sights??

If you qualify having the sight pop off the slide constantly as "breaking"...Yes. The sights were complete trash, so that is where they went.

Zombie Steve
05-22-2012, 17:46
10. Will not feed semi-wadcutters.
9. Lead has a tendency to build up quick on the poly-rifling
8. Feels like a 2X4, particularly in the .45 / 10mm frames
7. The stock sights are horrible
6. Grip angle
5. Will not feed semi-wadcutters (worth mentioning again)
4. Finger grooves designed around some metro pansy hand
3. Pignose
2. A segment of the Glock market is actually interested in products called butt plugs and pinky extensions.
1. The trigger is about as smooth as a palsy victim performing brain surgery with a pipe wrench.

Nestor
05-22-2012, 17:50
The Glocks "biggest weakness"? Well, the fanboys of course.:supergrin:

To be fair it's just the part of the deal.
Glock is very successful platform (that could be even more successful if not for stupid Glock's policy that is somehow slowly changing lately) and it's quite difficult to find truly objective review of one of those pistols. Fanboys are as much irritating as the haters are. My experience with G17 is placing me somewhere between those two groups - not so great as the fanboys would advertise and not so bad as the haters believe.
OK pistol that could be much better...where "could" is a key word. Sooner or later I'm planning to give Glock another try.

Firefightermdc
05-22-2012, 17:58
10. Will not feed semi-wadcutters.
9. Lead has a tendency to build up quick on the poly-rifling
8. Feels like a 2X4, particularly in the .45 / 10mm frames
7. The stock sights are horrible
6. Grip angle
5. Will not feed semi-wadcutters (worth mentioning again)
4. Finger grooves designed around some metro pansy hand
3. Pignose
2. A segment of the Glock market is actually interested in products called butt plugs and pinky extensions.
1. The trigger is about as smooth as a palsy victim performing brain surgery with a pipe wrench.

This list is definitely worth mentioning again!! I lold hard

Restless28
05-22-2012, 18:04
This list is definitely worth mentioning again!! I lold hard

+1. I lold too!

Zombie Steve
05-22-2012, 18:29
Sorta joking, sorta not. I still have a G30 that I carry from time to time, but it just isn't a 1911. :fred:

Magus
05-22-2012, 20:18
10. Will not feed semi-wadcutters.
9. Lead has a tendency to build up quick on the poly-rifling
8. Feels like a 2X4, particularly in the .45 / 10mm frames
7. The stock sights are horrible
6. Grip angle
5. Will not feed semi-wadcutters (worth mentioning again)
4. Finger grooves designed around some metro pansy hand
3. Pignose
2. A segment of the Glock market is actually interested in products called butt plugs and pinky extensions.
1. The trigger is about as smooth as a palsy victim performing brain surgery with a pipe wrench.

I already posted...but yeah...pretty much all of this too. :tongueout:

jprj
05-23-2012, 02:36
10. Will not feed semi-wadcutters.
9. Lead has a tendency to build up quick on the poly-rifling
8. Feels like a 2X4, particularly in the .45 / 10mm frames
7. The stock sights are horrible
6. Grip angle
5. Will not feed semi-wadcutters (worth mentioning again)
4. Finger grooves designed around some metro pansy hand
3. Pignose
2. A segment of the Glock market is actually interested in products called butt plugs and pinky extensions.
1. The trigger is about as smooth as a palsy victim performing brain surgery with a pipe wrench.

Somehow true. But not really a weakness to me. And somehow subjective.

JAS104
05-23-2012, 06:15
This list is definitely worth mentioning again!! I lold hard

+2, i did too lol

carloglock19
05-23-2012, 07:03
+2, i did too lol

+3 LOL

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Peace Warrior
05-23-2012, 10:42
http://www.strelectvi.cz/forum/userpix/4244_glock_kaboom_photo_1.jpg
Ambi-mag drop design flaw?????

Restless28
05-23-2012, 10:53
Somehow true. But not really a weakness to me. And somehow subjective.

Not sure if serious.

tomklra14
05-23-2012, 11:54
Bought a G17 about 20 years ago. Carried it on duty, shoot it a lot, have carried it concealed, and used it in IDPA. It is probably the last of my guns that I would ever get rid of. I shoot it pretty well, it has never given me one problem and I have absolute confidence in it. I have many other handguns and own multiple Berettas, S&Ws, Rugers, etc. However, my G17 is the only Glock I have ever owned. For me, Glocks just lack something (variation, sex appeal, "wow factor") that makes me want to buy another one. Other than caliber, size and maybe color, all Glock models seem pretty much the same to me. This is just my opinion, I know many of you will disagree and that's fine. Kind of like a hammer, once I have a good one I don't have a burning desire to buy another one of the same type that does the same thing just because the handle has a different grip color or material. Now if Glock came out with something I considered different or innovative, I would buy it. I really wanted Glock to bring out a small single-stack 9mm and/or a pistol caliber carbine, but I just don't see it happening any time soon.

Restless28
05-23-2012, 12:20
Why is Glock so unwilling to innovate? Is there a legitimate reason?

IndianaMatt
05-23-2012, 13:03
The only weakness is they can't make them fast enough.

And that they have not been adopted by the US military yet.

Firefightermdc
05-23-2012, 13:11
Why is Glock so unwilling to innovate? Is there a legitimate reason?

They must see it as they don't have to. They still sell tons of handguns so I assume that's the reason

fnfalman
05-23-2012, 13:29
Why is Glock so unwilling to innovate? Is there a legitimate reason?

Probably for the reason that the M1911 hadn't really changed since its inception. Cosmetic changes, but that's about it.

tomklra14
05-23-2012, 13:32
As to unwillingness to innovate I would guess that Glock probably would disagree that they are unwilling to innovative - they did bring out the .45 GAP and I'm sure that Glock considers the Generation 4 models to be innovative. Glock probably does not believe they need to change much because they do sell a lot of handguns and Glocks are (with good reason) very popular. In my personal opinion Glock may be resting a bit on their laurels. Glock wouldn't be the first company that sold very popular products but was then surpassed when the competition stepped things up a bit.

I am not knocking Glock or saying that they are going to go down hill, but as someone who likes to collect different types of guns; there just isn't as much difference beween a G17 and a G21 (regardless of generation) as there is between a Beretta 92fs and a Beretta PX4 Storm .45 or a 3rd Generation S&W and a newer S&W M&P. As a collector I want to try new things. I could not be more satisfied with my G17, it is a great pistol, but I don't feel like any of the other Glock models are different enough for me to want to buy one.

tomklra14
05-23-2012, 13:54
Sorry to ramble but the comment above about the 1911 not changing much is kind of what I am talking about. At one time Colt was THE company for 1911s and while Colt still makes great 1911s and has many fans, other companies sell 1911s that are just as good and Colt has lost market share. Glock could find itself in the same position. Other companies now sell high capacity polymer pistols which are high in quality and deservedly popular with shooters.

JimFS
05-23-2012, 22:20
The lack respect in some circles. I purchased a couple of Glocks because I want a reliable and concealable handgun that is simple to operate. It is just that. It just keeps working. Clean it, or not, it just keeps going. But in some circles if you don't have stainless steel, long barrels, fancy grips, and lots of external crap to hand up on clothing they look down on the real workhorses. But --- seems like there are a lot of Glock look-a-likes coming along now days so they must be doing something right.

SK2344
05-23-2012, 23:08
I ask because I'm fairly new to Glock.
What would you say from actual experiences, is a Glock's biggest weakness(es)? :dunno:

None that I can think of! I'm still waiting for my first malfunction after 15 years of owning Glocks. Removing finger grooves and a slight Grip modification, but I don't count this as a weakness!

Snaps
05-23-2012, 23:16
to me, a plastic frame... I keep looking for somebody to build a good metal frame. CCF had my interest but bad reviews. I like metal personally.

Close second is how fat they are

harleytech
05-24-2012, 01:13
I like mine just the way they are...!:dunno:

easyg
05-24-2012, 06:52
1. The factory stock plastic sights should be metal.
2. The grip could be a little more contoured.

That's it really.

H&K 4 LIFE
05-24-2012, 07:49
A sub-compact Glock, in capable hands, hitting a target at 230 yards...

Glock 27 at 230 yards - YouTube

If the Glock has an inherent weakness, it sure isn't showing up here. :whistling:

Why is Glock so unwilling to innovate? Is there a legitimate reason?

What exactly would you like to see them do that you would consider to be "innovative"? :dunno:

Restless28
05-24-2012, 09:13
A sub-compact Glock, in capable hands, hitting a target at 230 yards...

Glock 27 at 230 yards - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMEg4y54Dk&feature=plcpIf)

If the Glock has an inherent weakness, it sure isn't showing up here. :whistling:



What exactly would you like to see them do that you would consider to be "innovative"? :dunno:

Let actual shooters design a more ergonomic frame, admit engineering failures on the ejectors, and slim down the 21 and 10.

12131
05-24-2012, 09:20
Probably for the reason that the M1911 hadn't really changed since its inception. Cosmetic changes, but that's about it.
QFT.
Anything else, then it wouldn't be a Glock.
Anything else, then it wouldn't be a 1911.

esh325
05-24-2012, 13:17
true, but on most guns when you ask why you dislike most of the time it wont include the grip/grip angle..Im betting if you listed HK,Sig,M&P,Steyr,Ruger,Taurus,CZ,Khar(thinking of all the other major manufacturers) and said what most do you dislike about these guns im betting the grips/grip angle would NOT come up very much. Your 100% CORRECT in that its subjective..but just to think had Glock did something as simple as put a more "normal"(as in basically any grip/grip angle ANY of the other manufacturers) grip on the glock they would make MANY more people happy...its the ONLY thing that keeps me away anymore.(unless I ever find a Glock 36 for a realistic price used)
Yes, I suppose the opinion of the majority is what counts.

SDGlock23
05-24-2012, 13:56
Lack of conventional rifling and they need better sights.

dosei
05-24-2012, 14:25
A sub-compact Glock, in capable hands, hitting a target at 230 yards...

Glock 27 at 230 yards - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMEg4y54Dk&feature=plcpIf)

If the Glock has an inherent weakness, it sure isn't showing up here. :whistling:

Hickok45 has done that with just about every handgun he has shot. That old saying very much applies..."It's the Indian, not the arrow".

H&K 4 LIFE
05-24-2012, 16:53
Let actual shooters design a more ergonomic frame, admit engineering failures on the ejectors, and slim down the 21 and 10.

No disrespect, but actual shooters are doing just fine with the frame the way it currently is. Glocks are probably the second most widely used platform in competition circuits next to the 1911. Also, the Gen 4 added the changeable backstraps that many other brands of pistols are using.

I have never known any gun company to admit to failures in design/construction. For example, with my uncles S&W Bodyguard (when it was brand new to the market) it would suffer from the takedown lever backing out and the slide flying off during live fire. This was a known problem and many others reported the same thing occurring with their BG 380 pistols. I sent it back and they fixed it entirely, but take a guess as to what the invoice said about the work performed? Nothing! It was entirely blank.

In addition, they did slim down the 21 and (I think you meant) 20 with the SF models, although they still may not be slim enough for your taste.

Lack of conventional rifling and they need better sights.

Polygonal rifling has many advantages over standard land a groove rifling. These include a better gas seal around the bullet (better and more consistent velocity), less bullet deformation, and increased longevity of barrel life.

Polygonal rifling defiantly does not qualify as a design weakness for a pistol intended for self-defense use that will likely be firing JHP type bullets.

Hickok45 has done that with just about every handgun he has shot. That old saying very much applies..."It's the Indian, not the arrow".

That is what I meant by "capable hands". :supergrin:

Nestor
05-24-2012, 17:12
I have never known any gun company to admit to failures in design/construction.

Ruger comes to mind :wavey:

mr00jimbo
05-24-2012, 17:25
The striker does not hit as hard as hammer fired guns and is sensitive to getting oil up in there.
Grip angle is personal preference.

H&K 4 LIFE
05-24-2012, 17:35
Ruger comes to mind http://glocktalk.com/forums/images/smilies/wavey%5B1%5D.gif
You may be correct about that. Having never owned a Ruger handgun I would not be aware of this. :)

The striker does not hit as hard as hammer fired guns and is sensitive to getting oil up in there...

This is only an issue with excessively hard primers. If you don't put oil in the striker channel on purpose, it does not get in. There is also a "garbage hole" in the slide that allows anything obstructing the striker to drain away from the channel. :)

ca survivor
05-25-2012, 06:41
Mr. Gaston Glock

HKLovingIT
05-25-2012, 09:34
I'm not a fan of the finger grooves even though they line up perfect for me. I just don't care for them.

I used to not like the grip angle so much, now I like it well enough. I don't notice it.

I still don't like where the hump in the grip is on the G19 size models.

Since I'm a complainer, I don't like whatever was going on recently with Gen 3 extractors. :tongueout:

That's about it.

Peace Warrior
05-25-2012, 09:59
true, but on most guns when you ask why you dislike most of the time it wont include the grip/grip angle..Im betting if you listed HK,Sig,M&P,Steyr,Ruger,Taurus,CZ,Khar(thinking of all the other major manufacturers) and said what most do you dislike about these guns im betting the grips/grip angle would NOT come up very much. Your 100% CORRECT in that its subjective..but just to think had Glock did something as simple as put a more "normal"(as in basically any grip/grip angle ANY of the other manufacturers) grip on the glock they would make MANY more people happy...its the ONLY thing that keeps me away anymore.(unless I ever find a Glock 36 for a realistic price used)

For one to make a claim against Glock due to the "angle of the grip," one is 100 % of the time making a comparison of the Glock to another product, and not merely detailing an intrinsic weakness. I do not see the grip as a weakness, but I am not a personal fan of the finger grooves. However, I do know the finger grooves have come in handy, for yours truly, when at an outdoor range on a hot August day here in Florida.

Before acquiring my first Glock, the only sidearms I owned were all revolvers. The Glock grip then, and now, is a simple matter of training to overcome the difference in feel.

I am in the camp of LOVING the "safety" location on Glock pistols. ymmv For me, the Glock is the greatest SD platform out there.

To date other gun manufacturers have closely imitated Glocks. For me, that tells the tale right there. :wavey:

Dbltapglock
05-25-2012, 11:20
deleted

TSAX
05-25-2012, 11:53
I'm not a fan of the finger grooves even though they line up perfect for me. I just don't care for them.


:agree:, not a fan of the finger grooves but they do line up well for me. I prefer no grooves but f i could never get them of or every Glock was required by law to have them I wouldn't stop carrying the Glock.







:50cal:

Diesel McBadass
05-25-2012, 14:16
Poor sights and finger grooves, i dont want to spend money shaving finger grooves off and adding new sights.

happyguy
05-25-2012, 20:08
Fanboys

Regards,
Happyguy :)

esh325
05-25-2012, 20:33
The striker does not hit as hard as hammer fired guns and is sensitive to getting oil up in there.
Grip angle is personal preference.
I don't think there's any evidence that the Glock or any striker fired pistol has significantly less reliable primer ignition than a hammer fired gun. I've never had a light strike with my Glocks, or the one I fired at a class. And the vast majority of Glock shooters do not report light strikes. I have two Lugers and never experienced light strikes with them.

Check my Gat
05-25-2012, 23:58
The Luger-esque grip angle needs to reconcile itself with the 21st century. That's it and that's all.

Check my Gat
05-26-2012, 00:04
Mr. Gaston Glock
True that.

Their products are great, but they could do a lot more with the basic design they have. Instead its basically one vanilla gun jazzed up with a longer slide or a shorter frame in varying calibers.

Fiery Red XIII
05-26-2012, 00:20
My G19C had issues w/some HP's. It was a barrel thing coinciding w/serial #'s brought to my attention on this site. :cool:

As far as mine, I have a Gen 3 G19C and a Gen 3 G20. Count me as another weird one for whom the grip and sights line up great and fit my hands well...and I ain't even that big of a guy. Never any other issues...though with rental Glocks especially, I have noticed they are more prone to limpwristing (could be bad recoil springs in the rentals too).

Red

Lior
05-26-2012, 00:26
The trigger guard and the front grip near it being too fat - it is difficult to work the trigger with the crease of your finger without the finger touching the frame elsewhere, jerking the gun at the wrong moment.

Diesel McBadass
05-26-2012, 06:52
It really seems they dont listen to what customers really want, if they did therd be a single stack glock slim 9 already. Took forever to get replacable backstraps too and it was a weak attempt. It happens when you think you make "perfection" instead of noticing weak points and trying to improve.

Darkangel1846
05-26-2012, 09:26
The shooter

the right answer.:wavey:

jprj
05-26-2012, 19:21
After some thought, i think its the pattent. Numerous brands started copying glocks design in one way or another.

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mr00jimbo
05-27-2012, 01:17
I don't think there's any evidence that the Glock or any striker fired pistol has significantly less reliable primer ignition than a hammer fired gun. I've never had a light strike with my Glocks, or the one I fired at a class. And the vast majority of Glock shooters do not report light strikes. I have two Lugers and never experienced light strikes with them.

If you don't use hard-ass primers or old surplus ammunition, it won't be a problem.
Compared to the Browning HP:
Mentioned earlier was reliability. Either the Mk III or the Glock 17 is capable of it in the extreme. I have noticed that with some foreign military surplus ammunition, the hammer-driven firing pin of the Hi Power would fire rounds that the striker-fired Glock simply would not. If memory serves, there was some Greek surplus ball imported a few years ago and almost immediately some Glock folks began experiencing failures to fire. Within a short time the importer of this ammunition advised that it was not recommended for Glock handguns. Having said that, I have never experienced a single failure to fire using any ammunition from Remington, Federal, Winchester, CCI/Speer, Fiocchi, Hirtenberger or Corbon. With ammo not having unusually hard primers I don't think there is an issue at all.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Hi%20Power%20and%20Glock17.htm

GOOFA
05-27-2012, 23:28
A Glock's Biggest Weakness?

They stopped caring. Wish they would try something new other than these measly aesthetic changes.

They didn't stop caring. They just happen to have orders for 600,000 Glocks at this date. They're just taking care of their customers. We all would like to see new models, but it's difficult to think new models when you have 600,000 orders for your current ones.

GunFooMaster
05-29-2012, 10:17
A Glock's Biggest Weakness?

They stopped caring. Wish they would try something new other than these measly aesthetic changes.

They didn't stop caring. They just happen to have orders for 600,000 Glocks at this date. They're just taking care of their customers. We all would like to see new models, but it's difficult to think new models when you have 600,000 orders for your current ones.

Really? You could say the Toyota Camry is selling like hotcakes, but they still sell with new changes model after model. Sure it's taking a risk by rolling the dice, but that's why the older models are still built by machines and the engineers can plan something new.

To me, they stopped caring.

GOOFA
05-29-2012, 12:16
Really? You could say the Toyota Camry is selling like hotcakes, but they still sell with new changes model after model.
To me, they stopped caring.
If Toyota had an order for 600,000 current model Camry's I'd bet that they wouldn't change the model until it's sales slowed down. Why are there still new 2011 Camry's still available? I didn't realize there was a waiting list to get a new Camry or pretty much any other car.

als54
06-27-2013, 21:44
Factory non-metal sights


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I agree 100% why put plastic sights on it?

WayneJessie
06-27-2013, 23:39
If Toyota had an order for 600,000 current model Camry's I'd bet that they wouldn't change the model until it's sales slowed down. Why are there still new 2011 Camry's still available? I didn't realize there was a waiting list to get a new Camry or pretty much any other car.

Wrong. By the time a new generation Camry or any other for that matter rolls out, they design guys already have the next generation pretty much done. They all work about 5-7 years ahead. There's no waiting list to buy a Glock around here. The shelves are full of them. It's tougher to find certain Ruger and CZ products than Glock.
A Glock is no different to me than any other handgun. It's far from "perfection". The question is whether or not you can live with a gun's certain imperfections. Fanboys don't get your pull-ups in a wad if someone does not think your Glock is all that. It's just a plastic gun.:shocked:

MrMurphy
06-27-2013, 23:42
I agree 100% why put plastic sights on it?

They're inexpensive, and the original Glock market is/was the military, who carry them FAR FAR more than they ever shoot them. Sitting in a holster, plastic sights are generally fine.

NEOH212
06-28-2013, 02:50
What would you say from actual experiences, is a Glock's biggest weakness(es)? :dunno:

People that think they are a gunsmith.....:whistling:

bac1023
06-28-2013, 03:57
I agree 100% why put plastic sights on it?

Why resurrect a year old thread?

M&P Shooter
06-28-2013, 04:31
Glocktalk members with heavy dremel hands!

Bill Lumberg
06-28-2013, 05:51
In the broadest terms, the internet.

In the real world- they're light enough that some shooters have more difficulty shooting them well, as compared to heavier guns like Beretta's and 1911's. I ask because I'm fairly new to Glock.
What would you say from actual experiences, is a Glock's biggest weakness(es)? :dunno:

bac1023
06-28-2013, 06:13
In the broadest terms, the internet.

In the real world- they're light enough that some shooters have more difficulty shooting them well, as compared to heavier guns like Beretta's and 1911's.

It's all about what you get used to, I guess.

CBennett
06-28-2013, 06:29
Worst grips/grip angle combo in the industry and they are rather thick and chunky. The only Glock that feels right in my hand is the 36 Id love a Glock 36 im assuming that it fits better cause its narrower al around including the grips than other glocks. Other than that they are great..

Peace Warrior
06-28-2013, 11:11
Look what the cat dug up and brought in... wow.

Blast from the past.

Slug71
06-28-2013, 17:06
Ejection.

dhoomonyou
06-28-2013, 19:18
All the WHINING.