Who the hell copied who!?!? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RYT 2BER
05-20-2012, 20:48
I dunno if this has been discussed?

Anyway did these guys copy keltec or did keltec copy them??

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1213.aspx

Cause this looks ALOT like a KSG :dunno:

paulbow
05-20-2012, 21:02
I'm pretty sure they both copied someone else. I don't recall who came up with the concept originally.

Boats
05-20-2012, 21:09
Whom. It's whom.

brisk21
05-20-2012, 21:50
Whom. It's whom.


And out comes the grammar nazi.:whistling:

GlockFish
05-20-2012, 22:02
The way it operates looks a lot different than the KSG.
The more guns the merrier.

Boats
05-20-2012, 22:13
And out comes the grammar nazi.:whistling:

Hey, if people want to run around looking illiterate that's their business.

But really, thanks for taking a moment to champion the further degradation of the English language amigo.

ChuteTheMall
05-20-2012, 22:16
Whom the hell copied who!?!?

MrMurphy
05-20-2012, 22:20
If anything it's a modification of the Neostead, which, 10-15 years ago, pioneered the overhead twin magazine.

The Neostead pumped "backwards" (you pumped forward first), and ejected downward. This one ejects to the side, but uses a magazine somewhat like the Neostead's except it doesn't pop up to load at the breech end, it has loading gates.

8-Ball
05-20-2012, 22:25
Whom the hell copied who!?!?

:goodpost::goodpost::goodpost:

crashwg
05-20-2012, 23:01
Looked like it had a little trouble ejecting at 2:20.

Novocaine
05-21-2012, 00:38
Side ejection on bullpup. Nice. Love to see the video of this guy switching hands.

They both stem from the same South African concept but bottom ejection is enough to make KSG a clear winner in my book.

Question is did KSG make such an impact as to warrant the expense of building copycat?

WarEagle32
05-21-2012, 01:56
Is it kel tec and diamondback or maybe the LCP!

brisk21
05-21-2012, 08:43
Hey, if people want to run around looking illiterate that's their business.

But really, thanks for taking a moment to champion the further degradation of the English language amigo.



Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.

JordanK
05-21-2012, 09:29
For the record, who is a subjective pronoun and whom is an objective pronoun... so the thread would in fact be correctly entitled "Who the hell copied whom?" The trick I use is to replace who/whom with he/him in the simplified sentence. For example, he copied him. Where "he" or "she" makes sense, who is appropriate. Where "him" or "her" seems correct... whom is likely appropriate.

On the other hand, I'm with Will Safire on the subject. Best to just construct all of your sentences in such a way as not to run into the problem. That way you can keep a big block of memory available for more important things (baseball stats... gun trivia... the actual lyrics to heart shaped box... seriously, basically everything is more important). If it makes any of you feel any better, "whom" is widely thought to be on it's way out of the language... so in a generation or two it won't be a problem. For the best, the only thing more prone to hypercorrection (sometimes incorrect hypercorrection) is the use of "because" to start a sentence. It's allowed, no matter what your 9th grade English teacher said... it's a subordinating conjunction dammit, why wouldn't you be able to begin a sentence with it!?! :steamed:

I uh... was an English major during my first try at college... this stuff came up a lot...

More to the point, the kel-tec looks pretty different. I think they were probably both developed based on the same parent model rather than copied from one or the other. Without ever having had the opportunity to hold either, I believe I'd prefer the kel-tec.

M&P15T
05-21-2012, 09:42
Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.

Sure we do, or there wouldn't be people correcting others.

Whether you agree or not, spelling, punctuation, grammar and the rest, are important. It's far better to learn your lessons and be corrected here, on G.T., rather than at work, where you will make yourself look unprofessional and uneducated.

MoparMan1991
05-21-2012, 09:52
OR we could ignore the fact that people make mistakes, and get back on topic.

Bob Hafler
05-21-2012, 10:35
OR we could ignore the fact that people make mistakes, and get back on topic.





Heaven forbid we do that.:rofl:

Dexters
05-21-2012, 10:38
Whom. It's whom.


On first?

ChuteTheMall
05-21-2012, 10:38
Nobody complained about sentance yet.......doh!

Coastal
05-21-2012, 11:03
Reminded me of the H&K G11 when I first saw it. It's made in Turkey, apparently--it's interesting that they didn't mention that in the video. I'd like to try one if the price isn't crazy.

fnfalman
05-21-2012, 11:37
Hey, if people want to run around looking illiterate that's their business.

But really, thanks for taking a moment to champion the further degradation of the English language amigo.

A comma is needed between "language" and "amigo".

Texas357
05-21-2012, 12:18
If anything it's a modification of the Neostead, which, 10-15 years ago, pioneered the overhead twin magazine.

The Neostead pumped "backwards" (you pumped forward first), and ejected downward. This one ejects to the side, but uses a magazine somewhat like the Neostead's except it doesn't pop up to load at the breech end, it has loading gates.

Noonly that, when you pumped the Neostead, the whole barrel moved forward.

the Kel Tec doesnt do that.
The Neostead had a setting to alternate feeding from both magazines, the KT does not, but apparently this new one does. If I am going to have to reach in and flip the switch, I'd almost rather have a single-magazine (& lighter/narrower/simpler/less $$) version.

Texas357
05-21-2012, 12:43
Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.
KSG has magazines above barrel but is loaded from underneath, through jection port.
Ksg Is a full 2" shorter with same length barrel. KSG has a lever to select whuch magazine feeds.

KSG has 2 6 round magazines, and reportedly feeds shells as short as 1 3/4".

This new one loads from the top left and right, has doors over the loading area which appear important to the operation, and looks like it still adds another tube below the barrel for no apparent reason. Also, side ejection bullpup wtf?

Maybe this will inspire others to come up with competing designs.

Other than the magazine selection lever, the KSG I held felt pretty handy.

WiskyT
05-21-2012, 14:46
Whom.

That is not a complete sentence, and that's coming from someone you'd consider an illiterate.

WiskyT
05-21-2012, 14:52
A comma is needed between "language" and "amigo".

He wrote two sentences and there are enough mistakes in his post that I ran out of fingers counting them, and, I'm illiterate.

WiskyT
05-21-2012, 14:58
For the record, who is a subjective pronoun and whom is an objective pronoun... so the thread would in fact be correctly entitled "Who the hell copied whom?" The trick I use is to replace who/whom with he/him in the simplified sentence. For example, he copied him. Where "he" or "she" makes sense, who is appropriate. Where "him" or "her" seems correct... whom is likely appropriate.

On the other hand, I'm with Will Safire on the subject. Best to just construct all of your sentences in such a way as not to run into the problem. That way you can keep a big block of memory available for more important things (baseball stats... gun trivia... the actual lyrics to heart shaped box... seriously, basically everything is more important). If it makes any of you feel any better, "whom" is widely thought to be on it's way out of the language... so in a generation or two it won't be a problem. For the best, the only thing more prone to hypercorrection (sometimes incorrect hypercorrection) is the use of "because" to start a sentence. It's allowed, no matter what your 9th grade English teacher said... it's a subordinating conjunction dammit, why wouldn't you be able to begin a sentence with it!?! :steamed:

I uh... was an English major during my first try at college... this stuff came up a lot...

More to the point, the kel-tec looks pretty different. I think they were probably both developed based on the same parent model rather than copied from one or the other. Without ever having had the opportunity to hold either, I believe I'd prefer the kel-tec.

Funny how you actually know grammar etc. and don't pick nits. You got class:supergrin:

Back on topic, did Ford copy Otto?

paragon1
05-21-2012, 15:11
Is it kel tec and diamondback or maybe the LCP!

Nope...Grendal.:whistling:

Jason D
05-21-2012, 18:06
Who made who?

MrMurphy
05-21-2012, 18:22
On side ejecting bullpups.....

almost every single bullpup out there IS side ejecting.....

FAMAS, AUG, SA80, SAR-21, Tavor..... etc. Don't know if you can switch sides with this model.

WiskyT
05-21-2012, 18:26
Who made who?

Who's Zoomin' Who?:whistling:

JordanK
05-21-2012, 19:35
Nobody copied anybody. This is simply an example of process philosophy. Both guns are simply place holders in an evolutionary series that will result in the ideal semi automatic shotgun. :supergrin:

As to who is zoomin who... I don't believe Aristotle or Socrates published a satisfactory answer... anybody happen to be well versed in Heidegger or Whitehead? :tongueout:

WiskyT
05-21-2012, 19:39
As to who is zoomin who... I don't believe Aristotle or Socrates published a satisfactory answer... anybody happen to be well versed in Heidegger or Whitehead? :tongueout:

Not me. We were doing just fine with AC/DC and Aretha Franklin.:supergrin:

JordanK
05-21-2012, 19:43
Funny how you actually know grammar etc. and don't pick nits. You got class:supergrin:

Back on topic, did Ford copy Otto?

I dunno about class... but thank ya much anyway :supergrin:.

This is a pretty informal medium for communication. I figure, as long as people get their point across, no need for stringent grammatical controls. As it happens, I find the subject (language in general) pretty interesting... so I don't mind blundering into a conversation about it :tongueout:... but I could really care less. After all, I have my own linguistic deficiencies (for instance, I overuse parenthesis and ellipsis like nobody's business...) to deal with, I can't very well judge anybody else.

Can't help you on the Ford/Otto thing... who's Otto? Which Ford? I'm a bit lost...

JordanK
05-21-2012, 19:45
Not me. We were doing just fine with AC/DC and Aretha Franklin.:supergrin:

I'm more of a Doors and Polly Styrene kinda guy myself... but we all take our wisdom from the sources that suit us. :cool:

12131
05-21-2012, 20:00
This is a fine thread for learning proper English.

GlockFish
05-21-2012, 20:38
I dunno about class... but thank ya much anyway :supergrin:.

This is a pretty informal medium for communication. I figure, as long as people get their point across, no need for stringent grammatical controls. As it happens, I find the subject (language in general) pretty interesting... so I don't mind blundering into a conversation about it :tongueout:... but I could really care less. After all, I have my own linguistic deficiencies (for instance, I overuse parenthesis and ellipsis like nobody's business...) to deal with, I can't very well judge anybody else.

Can't help you on the Ford/Otto thing... who's Otto? Which Ford? I'm a bit lost...

I think what you mean to say is "but I couldn't care less"

JordanK
05-21-2012, 20:44
I think what you mean to say is "but I couldn't care less"

Hah! Nicely done...

In my defense, the expression is idiomatic, it doesn't have to make sense. :tongueout:

R.Ph. 380
05-21-2012, 21:00
Wow. This is an internet gun forum. Not a college term paper. Nobody cares about proper sentance structure and double spacing.

Anyway, I like the layout of the Kel-Tec better. I like the magazine tubes under the barrel, not over it.

i AIN'T GOT NO PROB WITH HIS'N GRAMMER.MAKES PERFEK CENTS. EVEN BETTER IF YA HOLLER!!!

Bill

R.Ph. 380
05-21-2012, 21:02
Nobody copied anybody. This is simply an example of process philosophy. Both guns are simply place holders in an evolutionary series that will result in the ideal semi automatic shotgun. :supergrin:

As to who is zoomin who... I don't believe Aristotle or Socrates published a satisfactory answer... anybody happen to be well versed in Heidegger or Whitehead? :tongueout:

I'm a wee bit uncertain.

Heisenberg

MrGlock21
05-21-2012, 23:55
Whom the hell copied who!?!?

Ha! I'm gonna use that sentence to elaborate on the grammatical cases in my German language classes. Akkusativ, dativ etc..the students usually hate that kinda stuff :supergrin:.

longhair75
05-22-2012, 07:06
I am not sure about the evolution of the bullpup shotgun, but Sister Mary Claver beat grammar rules into me with a ruler when I was in grade school

Texas357
05-22-2012, 08:58
The standardization of the English language is just a big lie by academics and dictionary sellers.

Historically, the language was whatever you wanted it to be, spelling varied by writer and region (and mood), and grammar wasn't so structural. Any good example of literature breaks grammar and punctuation rules start to finish - because those "rules" are artificial constructs of what I like to refer to as the "dictionary movement." Shakespeare didn't know 150,000 words- he understood how to make them up and give them meaning on the spot. Making our language standard and consistent only reinforces the teacher's beliefs in such a thing, but it removes expression, adaptability, and poetry.

If you want a static language where meaning and usage doesn't change, use Latin. If you dont like new words showing up, go with French. Don't try to make English something it aint.

MoparMan1991
05-22-2012, 12:52
:offtopic: Good god people, just drop it already. Let the trolls troll and quit feeding them. This isn't a grammar forum. I personally think these kinds of shotguns are very interesting and wouldn't mind having one.

Danimal3805
05-22-2012, 20:00
Pretty sure their is more posts in this here thread talkin grammar than they're is talkin bout the sweet new kickass super cool tacti-cool SHOTGUN!!!! :50cal:








(See what I did there their they're?) :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Magus
05-22-2012, 20:15
I kant read ore speyll gewd.

I juyst comee heree fore thuh funnee emotercohns.:wow:
:tongueout::rofl::supergrin::steamed::embarassed:

dosei
05-23-2012, 06:23
I dunno if this has been discussed?

Anyway did these guys copy keltec or did keltec copy them??

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1213.aspx

Cause this looks ALOT like a KSG :dunno:

They BOTH did...

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/safr/neostead-e.html

BUT...they are also ALL DIFFERENT.


btw...here is the UTAS USA webpage:
http://www.utas-usa.com/index.html

RYT 2BER
05-23-2012, 09:09
:offtopic: Good god people, just drop it already. Let the trolls troll and quit feeding them. This isn't a grammar forum. I personally think these kinds of shotguns are very interesting and wouldn't mind having one.

THANK YOU... My God!... this thread turned out to be just absolutely painful!

I can't type what I "really" think because I would just get an infraction, but I am absolutely dumbfounded at the endless series of stupid chatter that has gone on here regarding proper grammar. It's a damn gun forum and I wrote the OP at 11pm while watching TV. The whole thing was done it in a way to be somewhat amusing (hence the use of the word "dunno").

My personal suggestion is for all that were offended by the use of grammar in this thread, pick up your skirts, grab the raisins that used to be your testicles, and RUN to the nearest Dr. to get on testosterone therapy. :rofl:

Bullman
05-23-2012, 18:48
Whomever happens to get one in a store near me at a reasonable price is liable to be the first one who gets my money :supergrin: I do like KSG's bottom eject though.

01coltcolt
05-23-2012, 19:05
Um, sorry I read this thread........................