Stock 9mm FMJ or 9mm JHP? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Stock 9mm FMJ or 9mm JHP?


coleslaw
05-22-2012, 09:01
I assume you guys have seen this question before but I'd appreciate any advice.

I sold all my .40's and .45's and am very happy to be the owner of two high quality 9mm pistols. I cant tell you how happy I am to consolidate, maybe it's due to my OCD. :dunno:

I'm just about done with my weapon prep for SHTF and I'm curious about stocking up on 500 rounds of 9mm FMJ or JHP? When I owned a .45 this decision was very easy, I would just go with the .45 FMJ... Not starting a caliber war it's just my personal opinion that a .45 FMJ is still a round that can deliver a hell of a punch and it's my belief that the 9mm FMJ is lacking a little.

My aim with my weapon prep is not to have the hottest +p+ devastating load in my handgun. It's just to be able to stop a small game animal or hopefully a bigger threatening animal such as a dog or coyote and God forbid I run into bad guys but incase I do I would like to be able to end the fight quickly... (That's saying if the SHTF so bad in my area and America that I would have to use a firearm on another person. This is the absolute last thing I want to do, I pretty much plan on being invisible and running from as many threats as I can... but as I prep I am realizing that prepping and self defense go hand in hand so I'd like to be prepared)

Thanks for your advice, and if you're wondering what my carry load is now and why don't I just stock up on that... it's because my carry load is Corbon DPX 115 grain, and that stuff is expensive. Whatever I decide it will be coming from SGammo.com, they seem to have the best prices on bulk ammo but their selection is limited.

cyrsequipment
05-22-2012, 09:41
I sold all my .40's and .45's and am very happy to be the owner of two high quality 9mm pistols. I cant tell you how happy I am to consolidate, maybe it's due to my OCD. :dunno:

... Not starting a caliber war it's just my personal opinion that a .45 FMJ is still a round that can deliver a hell of a punch and it's my belief that the 9mm FMJ is lacking a little.



I think you answered your own question.

quake
05-22-2012, 09:47
A lot of times, the old federal 9bp load can be had for not much more than fmj stuff. It's a 115 jhp that's not uber-new or uber-hot, but it's got a pretty good - and very long-term - track record of good performance. If I were stuck with standard-pressure stuff, this load would be on my short list of choices.

Loads I'd recommend against, or at least make my last choice, would be normal fmj, especially hot 124 NATO style fmj. Something that's better than fmj but potentially cheaper to stock up on than jhp, would be a truncated-cone style bullet. Winchester makes these in their USA line at 115 grain (or at least used to), and federal makes an american eagle 147 truncated cone load. They tend to give better penetration than a jhp while giving better 'thump' & less wasted energy than normal fmj loads.

Fwiw, I'm also a former long-time .45 guy, turned 9mm user and agree with you on the issue of .45fmj vs 9mm fmj. If I just "had" to use fmj, I'd still be a .45 guy; but as long as I can pick my own loading, I'm content with most any caliber from a .38spl on up nowadays. There's some really good stuff available out there now and the differences between calibers is a lot narrower now than it used to be.

Foxtrotx1
05-22-2012, 09:48
All FMJs are lacking a little in everything except reliability and penetration.

Nine Shooter
05-22-2012, 09:51
I'm in the process of consolidating my handgun calibers to 9mm.

I stock all FMJ. I will end up getting a few boxes of HP for carry ammo. FMJ penetrates better and should cycle through every handgun without issue.

quake
05-22-2012, 09:53
Just caught your "SGAmmo" reference and looked at their page. They do offer the 9BP, for $154.50 per 500; just $30-$40 more than an equal quantity of fmj stuff, and a whole world different in performance imo.

sebecman
05-22-2012, 10:02
Something that's better than fmj but potentially cheaper to stock up on than jhp, would be a truncated-cone style bullet. Winchester makes these in their USA line at 115 grain (or at least used to), and federal makes an american eagle 147 truncated cone load. They tend to give better penetration than a jhp while giving better 'thump' & less wasted energy than normal fmj loads.

I tried that round and it would not cycle in my G26, the flat tip just seemed to bottom out against the feed ramp.

Anyone else ever seen this?

JohnnyReb
05-22-2012, 10:06
I tried that round and it would not cycle in my G26, the flat tip just seemed to bottom out against the feed ramp.

Anyone else ever seen this?

No, but id check to see if you have the latest magazine follower.

I stock mostly fmj. It will do the job if its bad enough I burn through my jhp stock.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

cyrsequipment
05-22-2012, 10:09
I tried that round and it would not cycle in my G26, the flat tip just seemed to bottom out against the feed ramp.

Anyone else ever seen this?

Nope, I have a G26 myself and it worked fine for me.

Deputydave
05-22-2012, 10:09
For what it's worth, I'll add my 2 cents here (so I don't have to cut n paste the whole thing;

Definitive Guide to Handgunning (http://excoboard.com/martialwarrior/150162/1784064)

It's in the Emergency Preparedness and Survival section.

wjv
05-22-2012, 10:20
- Why did you choose 9mm instead of .40 or .45? If I was doing it all over again I'd consolidate around a caliber that starts with a "4".

- Why are you limited to 500 rounds? Buy 500 FMJ AND 500 of HP. . And then buy 2,000 more rounds. .

Last time I checked I had ~3500 round of just 9mm. .

cyrsequipment
05-22-2012, 10:30
- Why did you choose 9mm instead of .40 or .45? If I was doing it all over again I'd consolidate around a caliber that starts with a "4".



I don't personally have any issue with 9mm ( I have consolidated down to 9mm and .45 myself). 9mm will do the job if you get good placement with a reliable round.

What I don't understand is that the OP stated that he was trying to decide between FMJ and HP and in the next breath states that he doesn't feel that FMJ can get the job done.

FireForged
05-22-2012, 10:39
FMJ rounds have done the job just fine more than 100 years. I practice with and carry quality FMJ in my SD weapon. I know that I am in the minority on this choice but I am just not into the "flavor of the month" movement in regards to ammo.

tobias boon
05-22-2012, 11:12
I buy the 100 round box of UMC 115 grain hp's at mallmart for $24. Only $4 more than the fmj's. To me these work great for hoarding without breaking the bank. I use HST 147 grain +p for carry. I don't have much fmj.

JohnnyReb
05-22-2012, 11:25
FMJ rounds have done the job just fine more than 100 years. I practice with and carry quality FMJ in my SD weapon. I know that I am in the minority on this choice but I am just not into the "flavor of the month" movement in regards to ammo.

I really feel you aren't making the best choice here, and I would strongly suggest researching ballistics. Why handicap yourself? There is a reason why professionals carry high quality hollow points given the choice.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

sebecman
05-22-2012, 11:48
No, but id check to see if you have the latest magazine follower.

I stock mostly fmj. It will do the job if its bad enough I burn through my jhp stock.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

funny thing is they work fine in my G17 but if I pop a 17 mag in my 26 they no worky...must be the feed ramp?? dunno :dunno:

Not that big a deal, I use good HP for SD and 115 gr FMJ for target shooting anyway.

Bushflyr
05-22-2012, 13:01
Polish your feed ramp and chamber and radius the area where the ramp transitions to the chamber. Also radius and deburr the bottom edge of your extractor. That should clear up any feeding problems.

quake
05-22-2012, 13:03
I tried that round and it would not cycle in my G26, the flat tip just seemed to bottom out against the feed ramp.

Anyone else ever seen this?
I'd wonder about the follower as well. I've had problems with the old federal hi-shok 147 grain jhp, when using the old-style (weird-follower) magazines, but no problems with other magazines or other loads; just that load in that style magazine.

This is 147 FMJ-FP my most-used 147 grain load for the past 10-12 months or so, ever since I had a 147 jhp perform poorly on a feral animal. I don't shoot a ton of it; maybe a couple cases so far, but never had a problem with it in any of five glocks, one old S&W 5906, and a camp-9 carbine.

That said, it's not my most-used 9mm load, just my most-used 147-grain (ie, subsonic) load; used most when we're playing with a suppressor. For me personally, a heavy-bullet load like that wouldn't be my first choice for 9mm defensive use.

IV Troop
05-22-2012, 20:07
I would pick up and keep on hand at least 500 rounds of quality JHPs. After that I would work on stocking up on practice ammo. Pick up a case, shoot half, pick up another case,shoot half, etc, until you have what you need and are well practiced. Then keep shooting.

RMTactical
05-22-2012, 20:18
For SHTF stockpile ammo, I almost always just go with the cheapest and most reliable ammo I can find. That tends to be FMJ. A gun loaded with FMJ is infinitely more effective than a gun loaded with nothing.

I have a good stock of JHP's, but that is just a side effect of training with and carrying good CCW loads. Not as much as I have FMJ though.

Pitt
05-22-2012, 20:22
I like the Federal 100rd bulk packs from Walmart both for practice and stockpiling. I'm looking at getting some of the 9bple rounds as a good shtf/defensive round.

RMTactical
05-22-2012, 20:26
I like the Federal 100rd bulk packs from Walmart both for practice and stockpiling.

It's not a bad price at about $.20/round. I like it too. Convenient for me to pick it up too.

G29Reload
05-22-2012, 21:04
The best…the BEST round for the 9mm is…



















wait for it….

















the JSP.

The JSP was the round the gun was designed around. Its also a good choice for .380 if that's all you have.

JHP's can clog up with denim, etc and fail to open sufficiently.
They can also open too soon and prevent sufficient penetration.

A JSP will expand as nicely as a HP, but do so later after its penetrated sufficiently. Since it is more diminuitive than the mass of say a 40 or 45, it helps if it has deeper penetration.

So, do a search on MidwayUSA.com and see if you can get a good deal.

As far as inventory, the bulk of your ammo is likely used for practice, so there is no point in wasting money on expensive ammo that should be reserved for carry.

If the SHTF, your practice is likely to cease and shooting become real, so you do want a decent reserve of combat grade JSP or HPs for that purpose. You can stretch it though, if you are deep in cheap RN you got for plinking, that can still easily kill someone.

My philosophy is, STRIPE YOUR MAGs. IE, alternate.

Every other round a RN, every other other round, a JSP or HP. But preferably a JSP.

For every double tap, you get one of each.

If one doesn't penetrate enough, the other will.

If one doesn't expand enough, the other will.

You're covered, either way. Also stretches your ammo supply.


For practice sake, get your cheaper RN plinkers in the same weight as your jsps/HP carry rounds.

LongGun1
05-22-2012, 21:27
A lot of times, the old federal 9bp load can be had for not much more than fmj stuff. It's a 115 jhp that's not uber-new or uber-hot, but it's got a pretty good - and very long-term - track record of good performance. If I were stuck with standard-pressure stuff, this load would be on my short list of choices.




+1 :thumbsup:

I have been a fan of 9BPLE for many years..

..it is a real-world proven load spanning several decades!

(edit...SGAmmo has the hot 9BPLE for only $30 per 1,000 more than the 9BP :banana: )

IMO..in order of importance..

Placement 1st..

..bullet construction 2nd..

..caliber 3rd..


For self defense....definitely JHP over FMJ!!! :supergrin:


Before buying in bulk..

It is a good idea to buy a couple of boxes of your top selections..

..then test them for reliability & accuracy in your firearm! ;)

cowboy1964
05-22-2012, 22:12
Agree with the others, the Federal 9BPLE is a great stash round. Though Gold Dots would still be my #1 choice, if possible.

FatBoy
05-22-2012, 22:19
If you are only going to get 500rds to stash, you might as well get a good JHP.

FB

AK_Stick
05-22-2012, 22:39
Since most service calibers, HP and ball tend to make similar sized holes, I don't personally think its going to make a whole lot of difference what bullet you pick.


It just matters where you put that bullet.

lawman800
05-22-2012, 22:56
Stock what you can afford and what you are comfortable with. If you love JHP but can't afford to stock up or you can't even find any, then choosing JHP will do you as good as 2 unicorns crapping in the woods, right?

I love M855 and the 77 grainers more, but I can afford to stock up on way more M193 and so I have a few thousands rounds of M193 and less of the other stuff... but having a case of M193 sure beats only having 200 rounds of M855 or none, don't it?

bdcochran
05-23-2012, 07:57
Your cutting down the number of firearms and calibers indicates experience. This is what older, experienced shooters do.

One day I observed Alan Egusa shooting (quickshoot.com and author of a book on shooting). I asked what he was shooting. They were CCI aluminum clad rounds. Why? And did he reload and make all kinds of fancy rounds?

He explained that the round went bang every time he pulled the trigger. The round was consistent in performance. No, he didn't reload. There would be messy equipment around and half done reloading projects.

OP - your goal no. one is consistency. This means factory loaded ammo. If someone wants to chime in that he never reloaded a squib or had a failure to fire with his reloads, that contributor is not you, not me and not anyone I know.

OP - your goal no. two is shot placement. The students in the advance class of turnipseedtechnique.com or quickshoot.com are expected to do the following. Place a dangling 1/4 inch rope on a target at 20 feet. From the signal, draw, rapid fire from hipshoot position and hit the thread. When you are at that level, it doesn't matter what 9mm ammo you are using.

OP - most people never pay for a competent shooting class. They are unable to take a pistol, run, shoot and reload while moving, and do so accurately. They don't understand ballistics. They don't understand that you can accurately shoot your Glock 200 and 300 yards consistently.. No, they read a gun magazine.

One evening, I am in an LAPD cruiser and the call comes in on a traffic stop that there are Columbians near the airport. Wow! (Of course, it turns out to be businessmen who ran a stop sign). I watch as the uniformed officers run up to the suspects with shotguns and stand about 3 feet away with the shotguns pointed at heads. No comprehension that you didn't have to get that close.

OP- if you want the "best", then get a few hundred gold dots. Otherwise, pay for instruction and use the lowest price item that goes bang in your pistol.

quake
05-23-2012, 08:39
...It just matters where you put that bullet.
This and bdcochran's post both are good advice imo. I prefer non-fmj (especially in 9mm), but imo shot placement is more important than bullet type.

Wish I could remember who said it or where I read it - may have been someone here, but I don't recall - in one of the 9mm vs 45 threads, their comment was simply:
"If you can hit your target, it doesn't matter which one you use. If you can't hit your target, it doesn't matter which one you use."
Maybe not 100% universally applicable, but a critical first step imo. Hit the target and hit it well; with a pistol, everything else is secondary.

lawman800
05-23-2012, 08:48
This and bdcochran's post both are good advice imo. I prefer non-fmj (especially in 9mm), but imo shot placement is more important than bullet type.

Wish I could remember who said it or where I read it - may have been someone here, but I don't recall - in one of the 9mm vs 45 threads, their comment was simply:
"If you can hit your target, it doesn't matter which one you use. If you can't hit your target, it doesn't matter which one you use."
Maybe not 100% universally applicable, but a critical first step imo. Hit the target and hit it well; with a pistol, everything else is secondary.

The best 45acp high tech expanding exploding sawblade action double impact super knock down instant killer bullet won't do too much as it flies past the assailant when you miss.

But even more fundamental to either 45 or 9 or whatever... is that before you can shoot a bullet, you must HAVE a bullet, any bullet. No bullet does you any good if it is unobtainable due to availability or if you don't buy any if you can't afford it. (Hence my advice, which comes before this and bd's advice)

quake
05-23-2012, 09:12
True & logical. Have a gun, have a bullet (or ten :supergrin: ), and have the skill to use them well. Which bullet - and even which gun - is secondary to those.

coleslaw
05-23-2012, 09:16
before you can shoot a bullet, you must HAVE a bullet, any bullet.

THIS is a awesome statement and I get alot of flack for dropping multiple calibers and the .45 acp (which I do miss) just to own two 9mm's. But this goes along with the reason I went to 9mm only, it's not that I can't afford other calibers it's just that I can comfortably afford more 9mm ammo than other the other calibers I owned. My funds were so spread out amongst several different calibers and I did not have a well organized stock of one caliber...

I've also got questions about why do I own two expensive 9mm's (HK USPf and HK USPc) instead of owning one 9mm and one .45... Well I wanted consistency and similarity between the two weapons I own and we all know that two is one and one is none.

Someone had mentioned 500 rounds of JHP and 500 rounds of FMJ ammo. I like that idea and I'm going to start on my FMJ rounds first... Dick's and Walmart usually sells the 250 round boxes for pretty good prices or they will sell the 50 round Remington UMC boxes for about 10/box. 100$ later and I'll have my 500 rounds of 9mm, then I'll be looking to take some affordable yet good training classes.

BudMan5
05-29-2012, 16:00
I am a long time (waaaaayy past 40 years) .45acp devotee who has decided that 9mm is a much better round to stock. I have changed all my handguns to 9mm and I have picked up a Kel Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm so I can use my glock mags also.

I have also reduced my other calibers to 5.56mm; 12 ga; and .22lr also.

About the 9mm. I have an advantage on many of you in that I have not only actually shot someone, i have also been shot.

Here's the thing about getting in a shoot out after society fails, there isn't going to be any qucik medical care and a bullet wound of any type is probably going to be a game ender, at least in the long run.

Being retired military, I know that the NATO 124 gr FMJ 9mm is really a hot round. I thin k the requirement was for (+/-) 1200 fps. That means lots of penetration and it will also make most 'concealed' areas of shooters vulnerable.

If you're going to stock one kind of ammo it needs to be as versatile as possible. A JHP against a soft target is great but not against a soft target inside a car or hiding behind a wall.

I have been buying Winchester NATO 124 gr FMJ for $12.99 a box of fifty which is not a bad price.

cowboy1964
05-29-2012, 16:33
I'll still be stoking my SHTF pistols with JHPs, thank you very much. I don't care if someone will die 3 days from now due to lack of medical care, I need to stop them RIGHT NOW. A 9mm icepick hole is notorious for the lack thereof.

Dexters
05-29-2012, 16:34
I am a long time (waaaaayy past 40 years) .45acp devotee who has decided that 9mm is a much better round to stock. I have changed all my handguns to 9mm and I have picked up a Kel Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm so I can use my glock mags also.

I have also reduced my other calibers to 5.56mm; 12 ga; and .22lr also.

About the 9mm. I have an advantage on many of you in that I have not only actually shot someone, i have also been shot.

Here's the thing about getting in a shoot out after society fails, there isn't going to be any qucik medical care and a bullet wound of any type is probably going to be a game ender, at least in the long run.

Being retired military, I know that the NATO 124 gr FMJ 9mm is really a hot round. I thin k the requirement was for (+/-) 1200 fps. That means lots of penetration and it will also make most 'concealed' areas of shooters vulnerable.

If you're going to stock one kind of ammo it needs to be as versatile as possible. A JHP against a soft target is great but not against a soft target inside a car or hiding behind a wall.

I have been buying Winchester NATO 124 gr FMJ for $12.99 a box of fifty which is not a bad price.

I fully agree. And I think anyone with a brain would soon realize what you said - bolded & underlined - is true and would try to avoid a fire fight and be very nervous about being shot at.

Fools rush in where wise men ...

TN.Frank
05-29-2012, 16:45
In a true SHTF situation getting shot with anything, even a 22lr will be bad since medical attention won't be readily available. I'd figure that a good supply of FMJ would work as well as anything then put back some decent HP for inside the house defense.

G29Reload
05-29-2012, 17:48
OP - your goal no. one is consistency. This means factory loaded ammo.

No, it does not.

JimIsland
05-29-2012, 19:03
My 2 cents........You should have 300-500 quality HP. Gold Dot, Fed HP, etc. Try to keep at least 1000 rounds of FMJ stashed. I have about 5000 rounds of Sellier&Bellot FMJ with sealed primers. They will keep for a long time in my ammo cans. The S&B is quite a bit snappier than WWB and wally world Federal.

BudMan5
05-29-2012, 19:47
My 2 cents........You should have 300-500 quality HP. Gold Dot, Fed HP, etc. Try to keep at least 1000 rounds of FMJ stashed. I have about 5000 rounds of Sellier&Bellot FMJ with sealed primers. They will keep for a long time in my ammo cans. The S&B is quite a bit snappier than WWB and wally world Federal.


Actually I was describing the NATO 9mm contract that Winchester had. It is not anything near to WWB.

You might want to check your S&B. It is considered training ammo. Budget priced foreign (Czech Republic) low speed ammo is poor choice for self defense

JimIsland
05-29-2012, 20:24
Actually I was describing the NATO 9mm contract that Winchester had. It is not anything near to WWB.

You might want to check your S&B. It is considered training ammo. Budget priced foreign (Czech Republic) low speed ammo is poor choice for self defense

I wasn't comparing the WWB to the NATO stuff...apples n oranges. I have cycled 1000s of the S&B stuff without a single failure.....accurate too. It's not NATO ammo but it'll work for me. especially with my superior shooting skills:tongueout:

BudMan5
05-29-2012, 20:49
I wasn't comparing the WWB to the NATO stuff...apples n oranges. I have cycled 1000s of the S&B stuff without a single failure.....accurate too. It's not NATO ammo but it'll work for me. especially with my superior shooting skills:tongueout:

I didn't bring the comparison up, you did.

I can see you're an expert well beyond my limited experience, so I guess you win.

Happy now?

JimIsland
05-29-2012, 21:01
I didn't bring the comparison up, you did.

I can see you're an expert well beyond my limited experience, so I guess you win.

Happy now?

I did? Go back and re-read my first post. It says NOTHING about NATO stuff. The OP is asking opinions on stash ammo....I gave mine and you gave yours. This isn't about winning, just a friendly discussion..or at least i thought.:upeyes:

mingaa
05-29-2012, 21:40
9 is one of my main calibers Shoot what you want, stock what and how much you want. Frankly in a high stress environment I want as many rounds of JHP as possible. Fmj is in reserve as well (you mention light hunting - I can see that - don't splatter the squirrel with +P+. on the other hand if you think the fmj wounded but desperate starving, confused, nothing-to-lose hopeless earth wanderer is going to take a shot of 115 gr jhp and head back to the condo with no water, elevator, lights, food etc. to slowly die - I'd think again. You may be dumping a full magazine into them. I hate to say it but that's the time to drop 'em rather than poke a hole in them (unless it's a REALLY well placed hole) - with nothing to lose on either side the fewer shots fired the better. Not to be an ass but have you picked up and run with a box of 500 rounds of 9mm? Try a few thousand. Jhp all the way. Drop 'em ASAP IMHO.

RWBlue
05-29-2012, 21:57
IMHO, buy 500 rounds of premium JHP. These are for personal SHTF (someone breaks into your house, CCW....), they will also be the first 500 rounds if there is a major SHTF. Odds of using these up in a real SHTF and not getting shot yourself is slim.

Then buy as much 9mm FMJ as you can. Use this for practice and if you run out of the premium ammo.

mingaa
05-29-2012, 22:10
IMHO, buy 500 rounds of premium JHP. These are for personal SHTF (someone breaks into your house, CCW....), they will also be the first 500 rounds if there is a major SHTF. Odds of using these up in a real SHTF and not getting shot yourself is slim.

Then buy as much 9mm FMJ as you can. Use this for practice and if you run out of the premium ammo.
Yep - what he said.

TangoFoxtrot
05-30-2012, 04:28
Don't forget that weapons training and bullet placement is just as inportant as caliber.

Porterhouse83
05-30-2012, 05:19
I love fmj ammo even in 9mm. I carry fmj in my 1911. I will be carrying jhp in my glock 19 though.

lawman800
05-30-2012, 08:28
Don't forget that weapons training and bullet placement is just as inportant as caliber.

And above all, mindset. All the training in the world is worthless if you don't have to mindset to do it and do it right when the time comes.

quake
05-30-2012, 14:09
The discussion seems to be somewhat settling into a choice between "fmj @ 20 cents per round" and "jhp @ 75 cents per round".

My suggestion would instead be either "a decent jhp @ 30 cents per round" (9bp or similar), or if your gun can use hot ammo, "a great jhp @ 35 cents per round" (9bple).

500 rounds, for $174.90 plus shipping: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM406-5.html

I know it's an "old" load, but I see that as a good thing. Old things have long track records, and this particular old load has an outstanding, long-term track record of very-good performance; and it delivers that performance at darn near fmj prices nowadays.

Simply put, while ammo prices in general have gone up, the price of 9bple really hasn't much. It used to be high-priced stuff compared to other premium jhp's, but today it's still available for $17.50 per 50; less than half of what a lot of less-proven loads cost. I suspect that's due to Federal pushing their HST & other (newer) 'premium' loads nowadays. Since they've introduced their latest & greatest 'premium' loads, they've actually put the 9bple down into their "training ammo" section of their catalog if you can believe that. It was specifically developed for the illinois state police and was about the best-performing load around when it was first introduced. It's still one of the best performers available, but for marketing reasons, it's priced like training ammunition nowadays. That's bad for the folks who just have to chase the "latest & greatest", but it's great for we who are more comfortable with "tried & true".
Granted, being +p+, it isn't for everybody and every gun, but if it's something a person can use, it seems like one of the easiest gun-related decisions to me. Outstanding performance with a track record spanning nearly 40 years, now available at clost to fmj cost - easy call for me personally.

As far as its performance goes, it has the advantage all over any 9mm fmj load, delivering near .357 mag & .357 sig numbers. Look at it this way - if we're talking about a .35-caliber, ~115-grain bullet, at over 1300 fps, are we talking about the golden sabre in .357 sig, the golden sabre .357 magnum, or this 'puny' 9mm load..? We're actually talking about all of them:

125 grains @ 1220 fps = GS .357 magnum (mfr numbers)
115 grains @ 1305 fps = federal 9bple (chrono'ed from my G19)
125 grains @ 1350 fps = GS .357 sig (mfr numbers)

I'm not deluding myself that the 9mm can do everything the .357 mag or sig can do, but I'm saying that in a lot of common factory loadings - even "premium" loadings like the golden sabre - the gap between loads and often even between calibers isn't huge, and with careful load choice, even the 9mm can be made to basically match a whole lot of supposedly-better, 'new-&-improved' choices.


FMJ rounds have done the job just fine more than 100 years. I practice with and carry quality FMJ in my SD weapon. I know that I am in the minority on this choice but I am just not into the "flavor of the month" movement in regards to ammo.

Nor am I. There may well be some phenomenal loads out there now - I've heard glowing reviews of the golden sabre, the talon, and a couple others as well. I'm just not keen on trial & error on something like this, not with what's on the line with this kind of decision.

That's a big part of why I stick primarily to the old 9bple for 9mm. In 9mm, fmj kills people as dead as any other bullet, but compared to non-fmj it has a very poor record for stopping aggression quickly; and that's key with me personally.

DoctaGlockta
05-30-2012, 14:20
I'd go get your 45 back.

cyrsequipment
05-30-2012, 14:46
The best 45acp high tech expanding exploding sawblade action double impact super knock down instant killer bullet won't do too much as it flies past the assailant when you miss.


He could always use a 10mm and kill everything within 1 mile...

quake
05-30-2012, 16:07
I'd go get your 45 back.
Well, sure; as long as he was ok with the decrease in power... :whistling:



:supergrin:

UneasyRider
05-30-2012, 17:04
Don't forget that weapons training and bullet placement is just as inportant as caliber.

Excellent points! I would rather take a JHP in the lower leg than a FMJ in the head. So it makes good sense for you to pick a round that you can shoot well and then head for Carnegie Hall.

cowboy1964
05-30-2012, 20:28
Excellent points! I would rather take a JHP in the lower leg than a FMJ in the head. So it makes good sense for you to pick a round that you can shoot well and then head for Carnegie Hall.

The death rate from leg shots is surprisingly high if the femoral artery is hit. Conversely, the survivability of head shots is also surprisingly high.

UneasyRider
05-31-2012, 05:39
The death rate from leg shots is surprisingly high if the femoral artery is hit. Conversely, the survivability of head shots is also surprisingly high.

Win - Win? :whistling:

lawman800
05-31-2012, 13:47
The 9BPLE was one of the premier rounds back in the early 90's when Ed Sanow did his study on handgun stopping power. The other one was the Nyclad, not sure if that is still made anymore.

quake
05-31-2012, 16:48
...the Nyclad, not sure if that is still made anymore.
Only in .38spl, and a relatively anemic .38spl at that. The discontinued .38 +P nyclad 125hp was one of my favorite .38 loads for years and is what my wife's bedroom gun still has in it.

Naturally, manufacturers feel a duty to discontinue the existing really-good stuff in order to push the newer-released really-good stuff. :upeyes:

Same with the winchester powerpointplus in .223; another example of a great load that just had to be dropped from production for some reason. Schmucks. :steamed:

coastal4974
05-31-2012, 20:45
The discussion seems to be somewhat settling into a choice between "fmj @ 20 cents per round" and "jhp @ 75 cents per round".

My suggestion would instead be either "a decent jhp @ 30 cents per round" (9bp or similar), or if your gun can use hot ammo, "a great jhp @ 35 cents per round" (9bple).

500 rounds, for $174.90 plus shipping: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM406-5.html

I know it's an "old" load, but I see that as a good thing. Old things have long track records, and this particular old load has an outstanding, long-term track record of very-good performance; and it delivers that performance at darn near fmj prices nowadays.

Simply put, while ammo prices in general have gone up, the price of 9bple really hasn't much. It used to be high-priced stuff compared to other premium jhp's, but today it's still available for $17.50 per 50; less than half of what a lot of less-proven loads cost. I suspect that's due to Federal pushing their HST & other (newer) 'premium' loads nowadays. Since they've introduced their latest & greatest 'premium' loads, they've actually put the 9bple down into their "training ammo" section of their catalog if you can believe that. It was specifically developed for the illinois state police and was about the best-performing load around when it was first introduced. It's still one of the best performers available, but for marketing reasons, it's priced like training ammunition nowadays. That's bad for the folks who just have to chase the "latest & greatest", but it's great for we who are more comfortable with "tried & true".
Granted, being +p+, it isn't for everybody and every gun, but if it's something a person can use, it seems like one of the easiest gun-related decisions to me. Outstanding performance with a track record spanning nearly 40 years, now available at clost to fmj cost - easy call for me personally.

As far as its performance goes, it has the advantage all over any 9mm fmj load, delivering near .357 mag & .357 sig numbers. Look at it this way - if we're talking about a .35-caliber, ~115-grain bullet, at over 1300 fps, are we talking about the golden sabre in .357 sig, the golden sabre .357 magnum, or this 'puny' 9mm load..? We're actually talking about all of them:

125 grains @ 1220 fps = GS .357 magnum (mfr numbers)
115 grains @ 1305 fps = federal 9bple (chrono'ed from my G19)
125 grains @ 1350 fps = GS .357 sig (mfr numbers)

I'm not deluding myself that the 9mm can do everything the .357 mag or sig can do, but I'm saying that in a lot of common factory loadings - even "premium" loadings like the golden sabre - the gap between loads and often even between calibers isn't huge, and with careful load choice, even the 9mm can be made to basically match a whole lot of supposedly-better, 'new-&-improved' choices.




Nor am I. There may well be some phenomenal loads out there now - I've heard glowing reviews of the golden sabre, the talon, and a couple others as well. I'm just not keen on trial & error on something like this, not with what's on the line with this kind of decision.

That's a big part of why I stick primarily to the old 9bple for 9mm. In 9mm, fmj kills people as dead as any other bullet, but compared to non-fmj it has a very poor record for stopping aggression quickly; and that's key with me personally.


Great post, thanks for all the good info. I'm going to buy a box and try it out in my gen 4 19.

Warp
05-31-2012, 21:02
I assume you guys have seen this question before but I'd appreciate any advice.

I sold all my .40's and .45's and am very happy to be the owner of two high quality 9mm pistols. I cant tell you how happy I am to consolidate, maybe it's due to my OCD. :dunno:

I'm just about done with my weapon prep for SHTF and I'm curious about stocking up on 500 rounds of 9mm FMJ or JHP? When I owned a .45 this decision was very easy, I would just go with the .45 FMJ... Not starting a caliber war it's just my personal opinion that a .45 FMJ is still a round that can deliver a hell of a punch and it's my belief that the 9mm FMJ is lacking a little.

My aim with my weapon prep is not to have the hottest +p+ devastating load in my handgun. It's just to be able to stop a small game animal or hopefully a bigger threatening animal such as a dog or coyote and God forbid I run into bad guys but incase I do I would like to be able to end the fight quickly... (That's saying if the SHTF so bad in my area and America that I would have to use a firearm on another person. This is the absolute last thing I want to do, I pretty much plan on being invisible and running from as many threats as I can... but as I prep I am realizing that prepping and self defense go hand in hand so I'd like to be prepared)

Thanks for your advice, and if you're wondering what my carry load is now and why don't I just stock up on that... it's because my carry load is Corbon DPX 115 grain, and that stuff is expensive. Whatever I decide it will be coming from SGammo.com, they seem to have the best prices on bulk ammo but their selection is limited.

I'd go 5,000 FMJ and 500 JHP.


If the budget is really tight, more FMJ. Practice ammo that you train with to get better > anything that sits on a shelf. As far as actual SHTF use, a couple boxes should be enough.

lawman800
05-31-2012, 21:48
You ever try walking around with even 100 rounds on you? It's not fun and it's not very wieldy. When we're on the range, we have to grab enough ammo for the course for every gun and I wear 5.11 pants which get loaded down with enough ammo for 5.56, 12 gauge, 38spcl, and 9mm for my 3 pistols. It's very noticeable and when you swing your leg to walk, you feel the weight transfer.

LongGun1
06-01-2012, 09:34
You ever try walking around with even 100 rounds on you? It's not fun and it's not very wieldy.


Right about 1k is my limit....actually on me! :tongueout:

Combined with everything else..

..you definitely know it is there! :rofl:

TACLOAD
06-04-2012, 05:07
Whenever somebody at work says our 124 grain fmj rounds won't stop anybody, I always say"let me shoot you with it". No takers yet. Head and chest. Head and chest. That's what you go for in IDPA and Air Force quals.

G29Reload
06-04-2012, 08:04
I"m tellin you guys, you need to look at JSP's.

A RN profile for excellent feeding.
An expandable round, but comes slightly later
…after penetrating deeper.

No hollow cavity to clog with denim and such.

The round the gun was designed around.


JSP's in rifle hunting rounds are a preferred measure for taking down tough, muscular animals that fly like the wind and need a good stop (deer, for example)

It's a serious problem solving round.

Dexters
06-04-2012, 08:12
I"m tellin you guys, you need to look at JSP's.



I did a quick search - I've only saw a Spanish company that makes 380 ACP JSP

And I think you are right JSP was the rage years ago for the 357 and larger hand gun calibers.

G29Reload
06-04-2012, 08:32
Right about 1k is my limit....actually on me! :tongueout:


That's ridiculous.

quake
06-04-2012, 09:28
I did a quick search - I've only saw a Spanish company that makes 380 ACP JSP...
Empresa Nacional (or maybe Tetrinox?) I bought a case of their 9mm load back in the late 80's or early 90's, that had a 115-grain truncated-cone softpoint that looked a lot like winchester's current BEB load. Always wished I could find more, but never have:
http://www.municion.org/cajas/sbt.jpg
That was some hot stuff. I used it for ipsc shooting down in houston and more than one person ask if I'd had my pistol re-chambered to .38 super; it was that hot. Never found any more of it... :sad:

LongGun1
06-04-2012, 10:17
That's ridiculous.


Ridiculous is having none.. :whistling:

..1k is being well prepared! :tongueout:

LongGun1
06-04-2012, 10:21
The discussion seems to be somewhat settling into a choice between "fmj @ 20 cents per round" and "jhp @ 75 cents per round".

My suggestion would instead be either "a decent jhp @ 30 cents per round" (9bp or similar), or if your gun can use hot ammo, "a great jhp @ 35 cents per round" (9bple).

500 rounds, for $174.90 plus shipping: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM406-5.html

I know it's an "old" load, but I see that as a good thing. Old things have long track records, and this particular old load has an outstanding, long-term track record of very-good performance; and it delivers that performance at darn near fmj prices nowadays.

Simply put, while ammo prices in general have gone up, the price of 9bple really hasn't much. It used to be high-priced stuff compared to other premium jhp's, but today it's still available for $17.50 per 50; less than half of what a lot of less-proven loads cost. I suspect that's due to Federal pushing their HST & other (newer) 'premium' loads nowadays. Since they've introduced their latest & greatest 'premium' loads, they've actually put the 9bple down into their "training ammo" section of their catalog if you can believe that. It was specifically developed for the illinois state police and was about the best-performing load around when it was first introduced. It's still one of the best performers available, but for marketing reasons, it's priced like training ammunition nowadays. That's bad for the folks who just have to chase the "latest & greatest", but it's great for we who are more comfortable with "tried & true".
Granted, being +p+, it isn't for everybody and every gun, but if it's something a person can use, it seems like one of the easiest gun-related decisions to me. Outstanding performance with a track record spanning nearly 40 years, now available at clost to fmj cost - easy call for me personally.

As far as its performance goes, it has the advantage all over any 9mm fmj load, delivering near .357 mag & .357 sig numbers. Look at it this way - if we're talking about a .35-caliber, ~115-grain bullet, at over 1300 fps, are we talking about the golden sabre in .357 sig, the golden sabre .357 magnum, or this 'puny' 9mm load..? We're actually talking about all of them:

125 grains @ 1220 fps = GS .357 magnum (mfr numbers)
115 grains @ 1305 fps = federal 9bple (chrono'ed from my G19)
125 grains @ 1350 fps = GS .357 sig (mfr numbers)

I'm not deluding myself that the 9mm can do everything the .357 mag or sig can do, but I'm saying that in a lot of common factory loadings - even "premium" loadings like the golden sabre - the gap between loads and often even between calibers isn't huge, and with careful load choice, even the 9mm can be made to basically match a whole lot of supposedly-better, 'new-&-improved' choices.




Nor am I. There may well be some phenomenal loads out there now - I've heard glowing reviews of the golden sabre, the talon, and a couple others as well. I'm just not keen on trial & error on something like this, not with what's on the line with this kind of decision.

That's a big part of why I stick primarily to the old 9bple for 9mm. In 9mm, fmj kills people as dead as any other bullet, but compared to non-fmj it has a very poor record for stopping aggression quickly; and that's key with me personally.


+1 :thumbsup:


9BPLE (& 9BP) are fantastic bargain basement performance ammos....

..a "buy it cheap & stock it deep" kind of ammo! :supergrin:

Warp
06-04-2012, 20:33
Whenever somebody at work says our 124 grain fmj rounds won't stop anybody, I always say"let me shoot you with it". No takers yet.

That doesn't prove a darn thing, though

Would you get takers if you offered to shoot them with a .22 short?

Would you trust a .22 short to stop an attacker?

lawman800
06-04-2012, 21:09
That doesn't prove a darn thing, though

Would you get takers if you offered to shoot them with a .22 short?

Would you trust a .22 short to stop an attacker?

I wouldn't want someone to squirt me with a super soaker full of water either... and yeah, it won't stop me either.

Aceman
06-04-2012, 21:23
To directly answer the question: FMJ is just fine. If you don't feel comfortable with that, the problem is not the ammo - it's your shooting. Of you don't feel comfortable with 9mm FMJ, you shouldn't feel comfortable with .45 FMJ either. I then suggest definitely get the cheapest FMJ you can find and stock 10% and use the rest to practice.

Now the rest if you are interested:

For SHTF - I personally think 50 rounds will be excessive. But SHTF is kind of vague, and not well defined. I believe that in 10 50 round gun fights, I won't live to use all 500 rounds.

That said - I keep maybe 150 rounds of premium SD ammo, and the rest is just plain old Winchester White Box (Remington UMC) or whatever. And about 500 rounds is what I usually have on hand. Maybe more, maybe less. Depends on how much I have been practicing!

For an HK USP - I use Gold Dots, Federal HST, etc...all in 124g +p JHP
For a Browning Hi Power - I have Winchester NATO 124g and Speer Lawman 124 FMJ

The rest is WWB/UMC

Honestly, I'd like to try some Zombie Max - which I believe is really just Hornady A max bullets. It's the new JSP!

But like I said - I don't think I'll need 15, let alone 150. 15 days of food and water is way more valuable than ammo. And if I need 150, or 1500, I'll be glad to have FMJ.

And as always - I'd rather have 100 FMJ RIGHT NOW, than be waiting for enough $$$ for 500 premium ammo and not have it if I need it.

Overall, I say get a couple boxes of premium, stock the cheap fmj stuff up to 500, then call it a day. Spend the rest on practice.

*Full Disclosure: I also have a .45 - just one though. And maybe 500 rounds for that of which 100 is JHP (Winchester, PDX, maybe something else...)

Aceman
06-04-2012, 21:32
Another thought - get the 500 FMJ now, and as you practice, replace it with premium over time, if that's what you really want.

G29Reload
06-05-2012, 19:06
Ridiculous is having none.. :whistling:

..1k is being well prepared! :tongueout:

No, claiming, much less actually having 1k rounds on you, is ridiculous. Not even close. On body carry? I call BS.

I've carried 1k rounds. In a case. bulk buy at a WM when prices were going nuts.

It's ridiculously heavy. I'm 220 and 5'10. I ended up getting a cart because it was pushing at least 50 lbs. (Big wal mart to get thru to a gigantic parking lot.)

Not only was the weight ridiculous, at 17 rounds per mag is 58 magazines.

Really? WTF would even try to carry that many mags? I mean, what's your point? Its not only not believable, if it were true it would just be stupid.

If you need that much, you're in a battle requiring a rifle. So, its not only silly, its inappropriate. Soldiers in war don't carry that much. It also slows movement and displaces other gear.

Shame on you.

G29Reload
06-05-2012, 19:08
Another thought - get the 500 FMJ now, and as you practice, replace it with premium over time, if that's what you really want.


Really. Why in hell throw good money on expensive HP's downrange in the dirt? To make a fashion statement?

Get cheap practice ammo the same weight as your carry load.

lawman800
06-05-2012, 20:52
Really. Why in hell throw good money on expensive HP's downrange in the dirt? To make a fashion statement?

Get cheap practice ammo the same weight as your carry load.

The comparability is not just in bullet weight but also loading.

You can get a Corbon +P+ 115grain and a WW FMJ 115grain and they will feel quite different coming out of a shorter barrel gun like a G19.

We use 127 +P+ SXT Rangers and practice with a hot FMJ Winchester round which approximates the power of the duty round, so there would be no surprises when you pop off a full power duty load.

I'll say it was very nice to not get shocked when I touched off a duty round in the short short barrel Taurus 709 because I was used to the report and recoil, as compared to if I just got used to a mild practice plinking round.

LongGun1
06-05-2012, 22:29
No, claiming, much less actually having 1k rounds on you, is ridiculous. Not even close. On body carry? I call BS.

This must be my week for a select few to say I am completely overboard! :upeyes:

1st....never...NEVER...call BS on me! :steamed:

I don't fudge on facts! :whistling:



I've carried 1k rounds. In a case. bulk buy at a WM when prices were going nuts.

It's ridiculously heavy. I'm 220 and 5'10. I ended up getting a cart because it was pushing at least 50 lbs. (Big wal mart to get thru to a gigantic parking lot.)

Not only was the weight ridiculous, at 17 rounds per mag is 58 magazines.

So you are much smaller, shorter & weaker than me.. :tongueout:

And you are assuming they were all pistol mags..

..instead how about 19 AR mags (570 rd), 3 Beta C-Mags (300 rd) & 7 G19 mags for about 975 rd total...IIRC

Combined with weapons (Carbon-15 97S & G19), BattleRat, hydration, commo, med kit, other gear & BA...

..Oh Yea.....the weight is very substantial..

The thermal loading while doing heavy exertion in the BA is unreal..

..but doable!


For example...hacked my way up to 1,800 ft elevation wearing all of the above while exploring property with my daughter years back..

..went thru all three large hydration bladders that day..

.. my face was 'glowing' red & my lungs were heaving like a bellows long before I hit the summit..

..but we kept exploring until the day was done!

Obviously had a big smile when we finally reached the top! http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/LG1/ModifiedSmiley.jpg

So did my daughter (after her little hydration pack was removed)...holding my BR
(BR under the Carbon-15 pistol grip in previous pic for scale)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/LG1/69732315207_0_ALB.jpg


Really? WTF would even try to carry that many mags? I mean, what's your point? Its not only not believable, if it were true it would just be stupid.

My point....it is my gear...tailored for me..

..if I can tote the gear under the circumstances above..

..I can tote it anywhere.




If you need that much, you're in a battle requiring a rifle. So, its not only silly, its inappropriate. Soldiers in war don't carry that much. It also slows movement and displaces other gear.

Shame on you.


Soldiers in war expect frequent resupply..

..I do not.


If SHTF & I am ever fatigued to the point I need to discard..

..then I can easily shed gear..

..the opposite is not nearly the case!


Sorry for the hijack OP..

..but some dumb***** actually called BS on me..

lawman800
06-05-2012, 23:35
How come you blank out your face, but show your kid's?

G29Reload
06-06-2012, 03:11
This must be my week for a select few to say I am completely overboard! :upeyes:

1st....never...NEVER...call BS on me!.


BS, ridiculous and mall ninja-ish. I mean were you taping on extra trauma plates too?:upeyes:


So you are much smaller, shorter & weaker than me.



Hardly. I just didn't see the point. I could have carried two if I HAD to.

If you've got that much armament, you ought to be defending in place

kirgi08
06-06-2012, 05:49
LG is the only person I will readily say has me smoked in Preps.As ta the defend in place,I can think of a ton of scenarios that will make that unwise.That's the reason for a BOL that is remote and with limited access.'08.

LongGun1
06-06-2012, 08:21
How come you blank out your face, but show your kid's?


Because that was before her growth spurt..

..she looks nothing like that now! :rofl:

quake
06-06-2012, 10:15
Because that was before her growth spurt..

..she looks nothing like that now! :rofl:

But LG1 looks are unchanged still. Still a huge, yellow-smily-faced freak... :tongueout:

And yes, I've sat across the table from LG1 more than once; and he's one of the extremely rare people that makes me feel downright small. I'm fairly large at 6'3", roughly 255 lbs, with a 38" waist, 50" chest and 37" sleeve length.

And LG1's big enough that I look him right in the chin.

BR549
06-06-2012, 12:04
1st....never...NEVER...call BS on me! :steamed:

I don't fudge on facts! :whistling:




..but some dumb***** actually called BS on me..

:upeyes:

:shocked:

BS

:tongueout:




No, the facts are fogged up, surrounded by smoke, and covered with powdered sugar...not fudge..........

:rofl:

lawman800
06-06-2012, 13:42
But LG1 looks are unchanged still. Still a huge, yellow-smily-faced freak... :tongueout:

And yes, I've sat across the table from LG1 more than once; and he's one of the extremely rare people that makes me feel downright small. I'm fairly large at 6'3", roughly 255 lbs, with a 38" waist, 50" chest and 37" sleeve length.

And LG1's big enough that I look him right in the chin.

You guys are some big corn fed mf'ers out there!

You make me feel absolutely tiny at 5-09/160# 40" chest, 31" waist.

I doubt anyone would dare mess with LG's daughter... Talk about scary dads!

quake
06-06-2012, 14:19
You guys are some big corn fed mf'ers out there!...
As my wife says, "the world is my china shop". :supergrin: I have a horrible feeling that my youngest son is going to be bigger than I am. (Probably not LG1's size though.) My oldest stopped at about 6'1" or a little more, but my youngest who just turned 17 a couple weeks ago, is already between him & me size-wise & wearing a 14 shoe. (Two more shoe sizes & he'll have me beat.)

I don't know how my wife puts up with it. We don't have dinner time at our house, we have feeding time. When everybody's home, it's like jurassic park in our living room. :fred: :teddy: :homer:

tango44
06-07-2012, 11:01
fmj's for the range practice, I stick with Corbon 125+P and Gold Dot 124+P for EDC.
G19, G26.

Aceman
06-07-2012, 21:50
Really. Why in hell throw good money on expensive HP's downrange in the dirt? To make a fashion statement?

Get cheap practice ammo the same weight as your carry load.

You miss my point:

Get 500 115 FMJ cheap as possible.
Go shoot 100 and replace with JHP 124
400 FMJ / 100JHP / +100 rounds practice

Repeat until 500 125+p JHP is on the shelf

As for the "same as the carry load"
- You should practice with your carry load on occasion.
- While desireable to ALWAYS practice with that, it's not usually financially feasable

And if the diff between 115 FMJ and 124 +P JHP seriously throws you that much, you suck. Again, the specific ammo is NOT your problem. Get 1000 rounds of 115 FMJ and KEEP PRACTICING.

I will put it in the red with WWB 115 just fine. I'll do it even better with Golden Saber 124 +p. But either way...not an issue.

This like people who spend 90% of their time worrying about school quality and not paying attention to how smart/dumb the kid is and kicking them in the pants to get on the books. The school really doesn't matter. But gawd...soccer moms can run their mouth about it forever instead of getting on with the main business.

Guitar guys are the same way. Guitar, amp, effects, shut up and frickin play the thing and stop yappin about the latest toy.

Aceman
06-07-2012, 21:57
You make me feel absolutely tiny at 5-09/160# 40" chest, 31" waist.

I doubt anyone would dare mess with LG's daughter... Talk about scary dads!

Suddenly, I completely understand you now.

One of my daughter's (14) friends saw me recently.

Her: I'll get my dad to take this home
Him: But he isn't here?
Her: Yes he is, that him that just walked by.
Him: That's you dad?!?!? He's scary looking.

Me - just smiling. And I didn't have guns, swords, or anything at the time. (on school property and such) :cool:

G29Reload
06-07-2012, 22:15
You miss my point:

Get 500 115 FMJ cheap as possible.
Go shoot 100 and replace with JHP 124
400 FMJ / 100JHP / +100 rounds practice

Repeat until 500 125+p JHP is on the shelf

As for the "same as the carry load"
- You should practice with your carry load on occasion.
- While desireable to ALWAYS practice with that, it's not usually financially feasable

And if the diff between 115 FMJ and 124 +P JHP seriously throws you that much, you suck. Again, the specific ammo is NOT your problem. Get 1000 rounds of 115 FMJ and KEEP PRACTICING.

Yeah, I could agree with this. I wasn't speaking in absolutes anyway. I'd expect you do the bulk of your practice with cheap stuff and occasionally fire a carry load to tune up. Just the BULK of your practice is with similar weighted hardball.

lawman800
06-08-2012, 09:00
And if the diff between 115 FMJ and 124 +P JHP seriously throws you that much, you suck.

Agreed, it shouldn't throw you off that much that you all of a sudden miss, but again, shooting a bunch of mild 115 grain FMJ practice ammo does not show you what the actual 127 grain +P+ will sound or feel like coming out of your gun.

In the G34 with the long barrel and weight, the difference is negligible, but in a short barreled backup weapon, the report and recoil is noticeably different and I am very glad that I know how the duty round works in the smaller guns, even though it didn't affect my shooting.

Heck, sometimes the actual duty ammo might not even be compatible with your gun if the feed profile just doesn't match. Not every gun can feed everything, unfortunately, and some guns just aren't compatible with certain ammo.

My 10/22 for some reason can't feed the Winchester LRN but will shoot Remington FMJ all day. It was good for me to know that before stocking up.

Again, reducing any amount of unknown is the key, one less distraction or WTF during a time when you can't spare anything.

Warp
06-08-2012, 19:02
Agreed, it shouldn't throw you off that much that you all of a sudden miss, but again, shooting a bunch of mild 115 grain FMJ practice ammo does not show you what the actual 127 grain +P+ will sound or feel like coming out of your gun.


I find the difference to be quite small. Practice done with the cheap 115gr FMJ carries over just fine

lawman800
06-08-2012, 21:22
I find the difference to be quite small. Practice done with the cheap 115gr FMJ carries over just fine

What is the regular round and what is the practice round?