What spring do you recommend [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dsb1829
05-23-2012, 20:51
I have found my G20 likes full book loads. Unfortunately it will occasionally munch a case on ejection and sometimes locks the slide back with 1rd left. I have seen the dinged/dented in case mouth with some overcharged DT ammo, but the locking open early is new. And no it isn't my thumb (I ran it a couple mags with a low grip and duplicated the issue). That may be a mag issue (2 of my mags do lift the slide rel with a round in them).

At any rate, what rate ISMI would you recommend using with 11g of Bluedot under a 180g XTP? For the record I had no issues with the Shadow's 10.4g fave load and the stock spring. But it isn't as accurate as the hot load.

WeeWilly
05-23-2012, 21:15
I bought a 22lb RSA (factory style flat spring with a SS guide rod) from Glockmeister and it has worked flawlessly. I shoot 11.0grs of BD as my standard BD load under 180gr HAP's. The gun cycles flawlessly with this setup, but then it also cycles flawlessly with my factory stock RSA, so I don't think it is a required upgrade.

Yondering
05-23-2012, 21:17
I don't know about the glockmeister springs, but if you get one of the flat wound ISMI springs, you may as well get the stiffest you can find (22 or 24 lb) because they are rated way stiffer than they really are. Even their 24 lb springs are only a couple pounds stiffer than stock.

LASTRESORT20
05-23-2012, 21:34
I bought a 22lb RSA (factory style flat spring with a SS guide rod) from Glockmeister and it has worked flawlessly. I shoot 11.0grs of BD as my standard BD load under 180gr HAP's. The gun cycles flawlessly with this setup, but then it also cycles flawlessly with my factory stock RSA, so I don't think it is a required upgrade.


This ^^^...

dm1906
05-23-2012, 21:36
11 gr. BD under a 180 is full book load (Alliant), and my favorite for targets. With the OEM spring, I get dinged cases and a lot of them in the neighbor's yard (1/4 mile away, so I'm exaggerating a bit, but those are probably not the dinged ones). An ISMI 20#'er with steel rod tames down the catapult, and almost all brass ejects clean (no dings). No FTF/FTE's, either. I also have no issues using the 20# with OTC 10mm or .40 loads. While the OEM spring (17#) is adequate, effective and reliable, moving up a bit will save some brass (and narrow your search grid), and perhaps save some wear on the frame. The offset is recoil. Heavier springs keep the action in battery longer, so felt recoil may increase (it's very minor from 17 to 20). How much, if any, depends on many factors. It may help improve accuracy, if that's an objective for you.

TDC20
05-23-2012, 21:49
I have a Wolff 22# uncaptured spring and guide rod, bought as a set because they're less expensive that way. I have used it for everything from hot 10mm loads down to my .40S&W conversion barrel without any problems. The .40 cases don't go very far, 3 or 4 feet Hot 10mm loads fling brass 10-15 ft.

I have enough confidence in the reliability of this spring that I CCW my G20 with it most of the time. It does make the perceived recoil a little more than the stock RSA, but it's not bad, just noticeable. Those who shoot competitions claim that a heavy spring slows down follow-up shots, and I believe they may be correct. That's why it's important to practice enough so that you always hit with the first shot. :cool:

arushus
05-23-2012, 22:28
For ISMI, I would go with the 24lb, I've got a 22lb ISMI and it isn't much stiffer than stock.

dm1906
05-23-2012, 23:30
I don't think I would recommend a 24# spring for the OP's situation. I did a test on some rounds about 2 months ago (new brass lot), 180 gr TMJ, 11 gr BD and CCI 300, were at 1280 FPS. through a 5.2" LWD barrel. I consider this a modest "full power" load, but not above that. Unless one wanted to push into the FULL "full power" realm or more, a 20# spring is enough. I have a 24# ISMI spring, and it is very stout compared to a 20. The 11 gr loads shoot fine, but felt recoil is noticeably increased (as is muzzle flip), and brass ejects about 1/2 the distant (although very consistent and clean). .40's just dribble out and fall at my feet, but they do, so far. An OEM barrel could, theoretically, exaggerate any of the above. I SD carry with a 20# spring, but wouldn't with the 24#. One light load (for whatever reason) may ruin your day, or worse.

Also, the collection of ISMI flat springs I have all test to advertised weight within the MOE of my scale (all properly installed on SS LWD rods). My 20 and 24 springs (among others) have retained their weight with no detectable degradation for thousands of rounds. The OEM spring, on the other hand, has gone on a diet and lost a pound with less rounds behind it. It measured 17.25# new, but is only about 16# now. Still works fine with OTC rounds, though.

Yondering
05-24-2012, 00:06
Also, the collection of ISMI flat springs I have all test to advertised weight within the MOE of my scale (all properly installed on SS LWD rods).

Either your springs or your scale are very different from mine then. I've tested ISMI 20, 22, and three different 24# springs, all on a calibrated electronic spring tester, on LW stainless captured rods, over the range of travel measured on my G21. The 20 was approximately equal to the stock spring, and the 24's were only a few pounds heavier. I even talked to the ISMI guy about it; his only explanation was that actual rating numbers didn't matter, they just indicate that one is heavier than another. :dunno: All of the ISMI springs between 17 and 22 lb are the same spring BTW, just stretched out to different free lengths, meaning when installed some have a higher preload, but they all have the same spring rate. (1911 springs are the opposite, approximately the same "in battery" force, but different spring rates.) The 24 lb spring has a few extra coils.

I now use a 24# ISMI spring for everything, in my 10mm solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. It cycles mild 40 S&W just fine, and everything hotter than that, up to nuclear loads. I can't see any reason to use a lighter spring. If any combination would give trouble with light loads and a heavy spring, a heavy slide and muzzle brake should be the worst.

dpadams6
05-24-2012, 07:28
I have a wolff 21lb rsa for my 29 and a wolff 22lb rsa for my 20. Everytime i shoot those springs with hot underwood 135/165 ammo, i ALWAYS have at least 1 ftf out of 50 rounds. Change to the stock rsa, and never a problem. For CCW, i will never trust aftermarket rsa again....

glock20fanboy
05-24-2012, 13:30
I have a wolff 21lb rsa for my 29 and a wolff 22lb rsa for my 20. Everytime i shoot those springs with hot underwood 135/165 ammo, i ALWAYS have at least 1 ftf out of 50 rounds. Change to the stock rsa, and never a problem. For CCW, i will never trust aftermarket rsa again....
I run 21# assemblies in both my 29SF and 20SF and have never had one problem. I have shot them well over 500 rounds each.

chemboy
05-24-2012, 14:33
I went with an ISMI 20# spring for my G20, and it does help as far as brass recovery goes. Hot Underwood stuff now travels about 1/2 the distance that it would with the stock RSA. The new RSA has 550 rds on it, and no problems thus far.
Of course, this is my first aftermarket RSA I have ever used in a Glock, so take it for what it's worth.

dm1906
05-24-2012, 17:14
Either your springs or your scale are very different from mine then. I've tested ISMI 20, 22, and three different 24# springs, all on a calibrated electronic spring tester, on LW stainless captured rods, over the range of travel measured on my G21. The 20 was approximately equal to the stock spring, and the 24's were only a few pounds heavier. I even talked to the ISMI guy about it; his only explanation was that actual rating numbers didn't matter, they just indicate that one is heavier than another. :dunno: All of the ISMI springs between 17 and 22 lb are the same spring BTW, just stretched out to different free lengths, meaning when installed some have a higher preload, but they all have the same spring rate. (1911 springs are the opposite, approximately the same "in battery" force, but different spring rates.) The 24 lb spring has a few extra coils.

I now use a 24# ISMI spring for everything, in my 10mm solid top long slide with a muzzle brake. It cycles mild 40 S&W just fine, and everything hotter than that, up to nuclear loads. I can't see any reason to use a lighter spring. If any combination would give trouble with light loads and a heavy spring, a heavy slide and muzzle brake should be the worst.

I'm a benchmark freak, so I tested them, as I did the original spring before a single round went through. If yours are light, use a shim, or the plastic bushing that came with the rod to increase the preload a bit. Mine are installed with the bushing.

A heavier slide will slow the action, not similar to a heavier spring. A muzzle brake has the opposite affect. Dynamic masses, as opposing forces. Once out of battery, the barrel is locked to the frame, and your hand. A heavier spring allows for more force to transfer to the barrel/frame earlier in motion, as opposed later in compression, or when it hits the stop/buffer. The amount of force never changes. We can only change the timing.

nickE10mm
05-25-2012, 09:03
A heavier slide will slow the action, not similar to a heavier spring. A muzzle brake has the opposite affect. Dynamic masses, as opposing forces. Once out of battery, the barrel is locked to the frame, and your hand. A heavier spring allows for more force to transfer to the barrel/frame earlier in motion, as opposed later in compression, or when it hits the stop/buffer. The amount of force never changes. We can only change the timing.

100% correct.

dpadams6
05-25-2012, 09:11
I run 21# assemblies in both my 29SF and 20SF and have never had one problem. I have shot them well over 500 rounds each.

What brand springs are you using? This is so frustrating as i want to carry the 29 but want utter reliability and just don't feel it yet because of the few ftf. My 19,22,23,31,32,33 never had a problem with anything i put thru them....

nickE10mm
05-25-2012, 09:14
What brand springs are you using? This is so frustrating as i want to carry the 29 but want utter reliability and just don't feel it yet because of the few ftf. My 19,22,23,31,32,33 never had a problem with anything i put thru them....

Honestly, the stock RSA is just fine with all Glock models if you ask me, even for the hot stuff.

glock20fanboy
05-25-2012, 09:16
What brand springs are you using? This is so frustrating as i want to carry the 29 but want utter reliability and just don't feel it yet because of the few ftf. My 19,22,23,31,32,33 never had a problem with anything i put thru them....
In my 20SF I have a 21# Brass Stacker captured-recoil spring setup. In the 29SF I have a Wolff Gunsprings uncaptured 21# setup. They both have been flawless. Understand, though, in the 29SF the setup makes it very difficult to rack the slide for the first round.

Yondering
05-25-2012, 20:35
A heavier slide will slow the action, not similar to a heavier spring. A muzzle brake has the opposite affect. Dynamic masses, as opposing forces. Once out of battery, the barrel is locked to the frame, and your hand. A heavier spring allows for more force to transfer to the barrel/frame earlier in motion, as opposed later in compression, or when it hits the stop/buffer. The amount of force never changes. We can only change the timing.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I didn't claim a heavy spring and heavy slide do the same thing. I said if a glock was going to malfunction strictly due to light loads, the heavy spring, heavy slide, and muzzle brake combo would be the worst offender.

Also, "a muzzle brake has the opposite effect" compared to what? It's certainly not opposite of a heavy spring. A muzzle brake slows down the unlocking, and reduces slide velocity in the rearward direction.

If you measured your springs accurately, and your numbers are correct, then ISMI is/has changed their springs at some point. I sent my 24 lb springs back to LW twice, their armorer tested them and agreed they weren't 24lb springs, and they replaced them, but the replacements were the same. They are stiffer than stock, but not by as much as the numbers indicate, and not enough to cause any malfunctions.

Yondering
05-25-2012, 20:39
A heavier slide will slow the action, not similar to a heavier spring.

I'm not sure, but are you trying to say here that a heavier spring does not delay unlocking? This is true in 1911's, but not in Glocks. If you've really measured your Glock springs, and looked at the plots and thought about what's going on, you should know better.

dm1906
05-25-2012, 22:38
I'm not sure, but are you trying to say here that a heavier spring does not delay unlocking? This is true in 1911's, but not in Glocks. If you've really measured your Glock springs, and looked at the plots and thought about what's going on, you should know better.
"Not similar", as in, not for the same reason. The effects later in the action depart very quickly, and vastly.

blastfact
05-26-2012, 08:49
I have a captured ss rod in my g20 with a 22# ISMI. It is drastically more heavy than the stock RSA crap that came in my pistol. And it shows when shooting the pistol. Brass does not launch anymore like my CZ-52. It sails out to about 10' and all lands in a nice neat area. Only mild to no dings in the spent brass now. With the OEM unit, it threw brass all over the place at 25' to 30' away. All brass was dinged if not ruined IMHO.

But I do shoot a tiny bit hotter load than the OP posted. :)

dsb1829
05-28-2012, 06:44
Thanks for the responses guys. Looks like I should have put up a pole. Guess this is going to be a buy a few and try them out.

Not sure why, but my G20SF has a narrow band of what functions well with the stock RSA. With light loads of AA2 it will have feeding issues on occasion (probably too fast of powder for the guns timing). And stuff like DT or full book loads start having dinged case mouths.