Why the religious right should stop whining about being persecuted. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Gunhaver
05-25-2012, 14:43
http://www.alternet.org/story/153207/5_reasons_the_religious_right_should_stop_whining_about_being_persecuted/?page=entire

This one is for all the martyrs out there. :wavey:

void *
05-25-2012, 15:33
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who read your post and consider it persecution.

Gunhaver
05-25-2012, 16:53
I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who read your post and consider it persecution.

I was thinking that as I posted it. "How many of them will complain that I don't point out the stranglehold the Muslims or the Jews have on our government". Sorry guys, when I'm chewin' ass I prefer Christian ass. Must be the Catholic schoolgirl fantasies.

muscogee
05-25-2012, 20:40
Fundamentalist are all similar whether they be Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. They have God in their pockets and that makes them superior to those who don't.

SIGlock
05-25-2012, 21:55
when I'm chewin' ass I prefer Christian ass.

Your thread's title is: "Why the religious right should stop whining about being persecuted?"

Your answers: " when I'm chewin's ass I prefer Christian ass".

Does it sounds very fair?

NOPE. Then... you just answered your own dumb question.:rofl:

SIGlock
05-25-2012, 22:01
Fundamentalist are all similar whether they be Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. They have God in their pockets and that makes them superior to those who don't.

Here is my reply to your comment: "For every complex question, there is a simple answer.....and it is wrong. (H.L. Mencken).

Oh, wait.....I have seen this before.....it is actually from your own thought (foot note).:rofl:

muscogee
05-25-2012, 22:27
Here is my reply to your comment: "For every complex question, there is a simple answer.....and it is wrong. (H.L. Mencken).

Oh, wait.....I have seen this before.....it is actually from your own thought (foot note).:rofl:

Why is my answer wrong?

GRIMLET
05-26-2012, 02:12
Even an atheist like me can see Christians are unequally viewed by the media.

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 03:25
Your thread's title is: "Why the religious right should stop whining about being persecuted?"

Your answers: " when I'm chewin's ass I prefer Christian ass".

Does it sounds very fair?

NOPE. Then... you just answered your own dumb question.:rofl:

My own dumb question? Do you see a '?' at the end of the thread title? Did you even read the article enough to see that that was the article title sans '?' ?

If you think I feel guilty because I don't feel the need to point out Islamic BS or Hindu or Taoist BS think again. I don't really feel the need to be fair with my criticisms of dishonesty and insanity.

Blast
05-26-2012, 04:26
My own dumb question? Do you see a '?' at the end of the thread title? Did you even read the article enough to see that that was the article title sans '?' ?

If you think I feel guilty because I don't feel the need to point out Islamic BS or Hindu or Taoist BS think again. I don't really feel the need to be fair with my criticisms of dishonesty and insanity.
But you whine like a pansy when your dishonesty and insanity is cited. Signature of the simple minded.

Yes, the EVIDENCE of the atheist disturbed obsession mounts to conclusive results.

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 05:31
But you whine like a pansy when your dishonesty and insanity is cited. Signature of the simple minded.

Yes, the EVIDENCE of the atheist disturbed obsession mounts to conclusive results.

You like to rant about atheist insanity but that's subjective. Dishonesty however, cite? Where have I been dishonest?

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 05:32
Why is my answer wrong?

Well, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, "having God in your back pocket" is hyperbole. Second, let's define what exactly fundamentalism is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism

Essentially, this means people who believe in their religious texts, e.g. The Bible as written.

So, the negative connotation is yours.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 06:03
Well, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, "having God in your back pocket" is hyperbole. Second, let's define what exactly fundamentalism is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism

Essentially, this means people who believe in their religious texts, e.g. The Bible as written.

So, the negative connotation is yours.
You don't think fundamentalism is a bad thing?

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 06:16
You don't think fundamentalism is a bad thing?

No I do not. I have a fundamental belief in the bible, that it is the accurate word of God. Therefore, I am a fundamentalist.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 06:21
No I do not. I have a fundamental belief in the bible, that it is the accurate word of God. Therefore, I am a fundamentalist.You support slavery? Do you perchance have a daughter of sellable age?

Paul7
05-26-2012, 06:24
Well, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, "having God in your back pocket" is hyperbole. Second, let's define what exactly fundamentalism is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism

Essentially, this means people who believe in their religious texts, e.g. The Bible as written.



Yes, Jesus was one of those.

eracer
05-26-2012, 06:25
You support slavery? Do you perchance have a daughter of sellable age?Old Testament is too easy. Let's go New.

That whole healing the infirm with a touch thing is a bunch of BS. I mean, who can heal the sick with a touch of the hand?

Oh yeah, Benny Hinn.

Paul7
05-26-2012, 06:26
You support slavery? Do you perchance have a daughter of sellable age?

I didn't know that was a commandment of Christianity. There is a difference between God's direct will and His permissive will.

It was Christians who ended the slave trade, not secular humanists.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 06:29
I didn't know that was a commandment of Christianity. According to the NT there are no commandments or laws of Christianity, but that's beside the point here. He didn't say Christianity or NT, he said the Bible. The Bible clearly endorses slavery and allows for the selling of his daughter.
There is a difference between God's direct will and His permissive will. I'm not saying he has to sell her, just inquiring about availability.
It was Christians who ended the slave trade, not secular humanists.And it was Christians who perpetrated the slave trade for centuries before that. Clearly those who rose in the 18th and 19th centuries to end it weren't fundamentalists.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 06:35
You support slavery? Do you perchance have a daughter of sellable age?

No, I do not support slavery.

Galatians 3:26-29, "<sup class="versenum">26 </sup>So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29129AR))'></sup> through faith, <sup class="versenum">27 </sup>for all of you who were baptized into Christ <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29130AS))'></sup> have clothed yourselves with Christ. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29130AT))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">28 </sup>There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AU (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AU))'></sup> nor is there male and female, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AV (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AV))'></sup> for you are all one in Christ Jesus. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AW))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">29 </sup>If you belong to Christ, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AX))'></sup> then you are Abraham’s seed, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AY))'></sup> and heirs <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AZ))'></sup> according to the promise. "

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 06:38
Old Testament is too easy. Let's go New.

That whole healing the infirm with a touch thing is a bunch of BS. I mean, who can heal the sick with a touch of the hand?

Oh yeah, Benny Hinn.

James 5:13-16, "Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30368AA))'></sup> Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30368AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30369AC))'></sup> of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30369AD))'></sup> in the name of the Lord. <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>And the prayer offered in faith <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30370AE))'></sup> will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Therefore confess your sins <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30371AF))'></sup> to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30371AG))'></sup> The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 06:49
No, I do not support slavery. What would Paul say? He clearly did. Do you know the Bible better than St. Paul?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Galatians 3:26-29, "<sup class="versenum">26 </sup>So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29129AR))'></sup> through faith, <sup class="versenum">27 </sup>for all of you who were baptized into Christ <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29130AS))'></sup> have clothed yourselves with Christ. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29130AT))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">28 </sup>There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AU (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AU))'></sup> nor is there male and female, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AV (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AV))'></sup> for you are all one in Christ Jesus. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AW))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">29 </sup>If you belong to Christ, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AX))'></sup> then you are Abraham’s seed, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AY))'></sup> and heirs <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AZ))'></sup> according to the promise. "Apparently, Timothy doesn't agree.

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.(1 Timothy 6:1-2)

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 06:50
James 5:13-16, "Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30368AA))'></sup> Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30368AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30369AC))'></sup> of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30369AD))'></sup> in the name of the Lord. <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>And the prayer offered in faith <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30370AE))'></sup> will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Therefore confess your sins <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30371AF))'></sup> to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30371AG))'></sup> The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." So are antibiotics and surgery.

Brucev
05-26-2012, 06:56
Re: OP. The RR should cease complaining? Why? It is an effective means of advancing an agenda. Atheist complain/whine to advance their own agenda. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 06:58
So are antibiotics and surgery.

Which can be helpful when necessary. The combination of James' counsel and modern medicine can do wonderful things.

fgutie35
05-26-2012, 07:03
http://www.alternet.org/story/153207/5_reasons_the_religious_right_should_stop_whining_about_being_persecuted/?page=entire

This one is for all the martyrs out there. :wavey:

I think you as the author, are missing the point when defining "persecution". Persecution can come in many shapes and forms.
From the radical stoning of christians like it is happening as we speak in egypt and syria, to the more sublime method of passing laws that force christians to act against their beliefs in fear of being sanctioned, fined or encarcerated, like the current health care law on contraception.
So you see, the bible was right when it talked about the persecution of the church in the last days.
And no, Im not whining about it, it is written that it is to pass, so I just accept God's will and carry on my merry life.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 07:13
What would Paul say? He clearly did. Do you know the Bible better than St. Paul?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Apparently, Timothy doesn't agree.

All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.(1 Timothy 6:1-2)


You are speaking of slavery imposed by Romans, just as the Israelites faced slavery under the Egyptians.

So, in essence, they are being told to glorify God as witness no matter where they are.

We can see such an example with Joseph.

Genesis 39:1-6, "Now Joseph <sup class="crossreference" value='(A (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1151A))'></sup> had been taken down to Egypt. Potiphar, an Egyptian who was one of Pharaoh’s officials, the captain of the guard, <sup class="crossreference" value='(B (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1151B))'></sup> bought him from the Ishmaelites who had taken him there. <sup class="crossreference" value='(C (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1151C))'></sup>
<sup class="versenum">2 </sup>The Lord was with Joseph <sup class="crossreference" value='(D (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1152D))'></sup> so that he prospered, and he lived in the house of his Egyptian master. <sup class="versenum">3 </sup>When his master saw that the Lord was with him <sup class="crossreference" value='(E (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1153E))'></sup> and that the Lord gave him success in everything he did, <sup class="crossreference" value='(F (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1153F))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">4 </sup>Joseph found favor in his eyes <sup class="crossreference" value='(G (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1154G))'></sup> and became his attendant. Potiphar put him in charge of his household, <sup class="crossreference" value='(H (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1154H))'></sup> and he entrusted to his care everything he owned. <sup class="crossreference" value='(I (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1154I))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">5 </sup>From the time he put him in charge of his household and of all that he owned, the Lord blessed the household <sup class="crossreference" value='(J (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1155J))'></sup> of the Egyptian because of Joseph. <sup class="crossreference" value='(K (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1155K))'></sup> The blessing of the Lord was on everything Potiphar had, both in the house and in the field. <sup class="crossreference" value='(L (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1155L))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">6 </sup>So Potiphar left everything he had in Joseph’s care; <sup class="crossreference" value='(M (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-1156M))'></sup> with Joseph in charge, he did not concern himself with anything except the food he ate..."

Solomon tells us in Ecceliastes 9:10, "Whatever <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17486O))'></sup> your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17486P))'></sup> for in the realm of the dead, <sup class="crossreference" value='(Q (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-17486Q))'></sup> where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."

Collosians 3:22-25, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>since you know that you will receive an inheritance <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29542AS))'></sup> from the Lord as a reward. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29542AT))'></sup> It is the Lord Christ you are serving. <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism."

Tell me, are you not indebted to someone for the food you receive, the money in which you pay your bills?

Then you too have a human master.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 07:19
like the current health care law on contraception. 90% of Americans agree that birth control is moral. This is a manufactured conflict.
So you see, the bible was right when it talked about the persecution of the church in the last days. Another end time prediction? Care to set a date?

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 07:31
You are speaking of slavery imposed by Romans, just as the Israelites faced slavery under the Egyptians. No, I'm not, I'm speaking of slavery imposed, or continued, by Christians.
So, in essence, they are being told to glorify God as witness no matter where they are. No, they're being told to obey their Masters. You can tell by the simple expedient of reading what the Bible says.
We can see such an example with Joseph.Yes we can see another example of the Bible endorsing the practice of slavery. Thank you for the added support.
Collosians 3:22-25, "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>since you know that you will receive an inheritance <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29542AS))'></sup> from the Lord as a reward. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29542AT))'></sup> It is the Lord Christ you are serving. <sup class="versenum">25 </sup>Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism." And another. Now, explain again how you can be both a fundamentalist and oppose slavery.
Tell me, are you not indebted to someone for the food you receive, the money in which you pay your bills? No, I'm not. I work for the money I use to buy food, but that doesn't mean I have a Master. I have the option to leave any job any time I like and only accept jobs I choose to do.
Then you too have a human master.I really hope you realize how ridiculous that sounds.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 07:54
No, I'm not, I'm speaking of slavery imposed, or continued, by Christians.
Then you are vastly confused abou the context. Are you then inferring that pagan Egyptians and pagan Romans were Christians?


No, they're being told to obey their Masters. You can tell by the simple expedient of reading what the Bible says.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CHcQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.iel.carloalberto.org%2Fpublic%2Fdocs%2Fslavery%2520029%2520-%2520AEA.docx&ei=6N7AT4XYL-74sQKHkuDLCQ&usg=AFQjCNHX_hK69AhgyQUbWY_6Y733YLHgCw&sig2=xpsSiHDVwMHd6eouE9lDQg

A modicum of historical background helps. But, I suspect you are not attempting to understand.


Yes we can see another example of the Bible endorsing the practice of slavery. Thank you for the added support.
And another. Now, explain again how you can be both a fundamentalist and oppose slavery.

Again, incorrect. It is talking about doing your best service for God no matter where you are or what your station in life is.


No, I'm not. I work for the money I use to buy food, but that doesn't mean I have a Master. I have the option to leave any job any time I like and only accept jobs I choose to do.
I really hope you realize how ridiculous that sounds.

You are just as much indutured. Without being beholden to someone you could not obtain the food you eat, the home you live in, or the car you drive. Further, if you did not provide adequate service, you would more than likely find yourself without the ability to provide any of the above.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 08:05
Then you are vastly confused abou the context. Are you then inferring that pagan Egyptians and pagan Romans were Christians? No, I'm concluding that the masters in Ephesians and 1 Timothy were. Was that really unclear?
A modicum of historical background helps. But, I suspect you are not attempting to understand. I'm aware of the slavery practices of Rome, and Egypt for that matter. That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Neither Romans nor Egyptians are imposing the slavery accepted and perpetuated in the Bible.
Again, incorrect. It is talking about doing your best service for God no matter where you are or what your station in life is. Could you point out where in the story of Joseph it says that slavery is wrong? I must have missed it.
You are just as much indutured. Without being beholden to someone you could not obtain the food you eat, the home you live in, or the car you drive. Further, if you did not provide adequate service, you would more than likely find yourself without the ability to provide any of the above.Are you seriously claiming there's no difference between living in the modern world and holding a job and being a slave in Rome? If a slave in the Roman Empire (or republic for that matter) decided they didn't care for their Master, did they have the option to leave and seek a new one?

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 08:15
I think you as the author, are missing the point when defining "persecution". Persecution can come in many shapes and forms.

I'm not the author of the article.

From the radical stoning of christians like it is happening as we speak in egypt and syria, to the more sublime method of passing laws that force christians to act against their beliefs in fear of being sanctioned, fined or encarcerated, like the current health care law on contraception.

Christians are not being stoned in Egypt and Syria for being Christians. They're being stoned for not being Muslims. I guarantee you if those stone happy Muslims got a hold of an atheist or a Scientologist or even what they consider the wrong type of Muslim the outcome would be the same. On the other completely unrelated point, people that don't want to have anything to do with birth control shouldn't be in the business of being a pharmacist or health care provider. Your accommodation stops at someone else's health care needs and those needs are not determined by your beliefs. If you don't like it then there are plenty of jobs out there that will bring you nowhere that manufactured conflict.
So you see, the bible was right when it talked about the persecution of the church in the last days.
And no, Im not whining about it, it is written that it is to pass, so I just accept God's will and carry on my merry life.

Lots of things are written that come to pass eventually. I'd be much more impressed if they could give dates or other specifics.

eracer
05-26-2012, 08:26
James 5:13-16, "Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. <sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." Don't misunderstand me. I believe in the power of prayer (i.e. positive directional thinking.) But you can't possibly think that Benny Hinn is anything but a shyster magician abomination.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 10:08
Well, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, "having God in your back pocket" is hyperbole.
It's not hyperbole (spelled correctly). It's an analogy.

Second, let's define what exactly fundamentalism is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism

Essentially, this means people who believe in their religious texts, e.g. The Bible as written.

So, the negative connotation is yours.

From the web page you cited,

a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles; Islamic fundamentalism political fundamentalism

The negative connotation is not in my use of the word "fundamentalists.". It's the fact that fundamentalists all feel they are the only ones who truly understand reality. The irony is that the fundamentalist disagree on so many things but they hold fast to their beliefs that they they are the only ones who get it and dismiss anyone why implies otherwise. They get it because they have God in their pocket. Everyone else is deceived by Satan. Many in the drug culture in the late Sixties and early Seventies were that way. "Tune in, turn on, drop out". They had dropped acid and seen God. Those of us who hadn't had that experience were ill informed and couldn't possibly understand the experience. They would insist it wasn't an illusion. They had delusions of persecution as well.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 10:10
But you whine like a pansy when your dishonesty and insanity is cited. Signature of the simple minded.

Yes, the EVIDENCE of the atheist disturbed obsession mounts to conclusive results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bobp5OHVsWY

muscogee
05-26-2012, 10:23
No I do not. I have a fundamental belief in the bible, that it is the accurate word of God. Therefore, I am a fundamentalist.

Fundamentalist beliefs appeared 1500 years after the fundamentals of the Church were laid down. You pick and choose the fundamentals you will believe and those you will dismiss. That allows you to create a new church that adheres to what you want to believe. Ever notice how different all the fundamentalist churches are? Ever notice how they think every other fundamentalist is wrong? Do you see no absurdity in your belief that Catholic Bible is the the word of God, and you accept their concept of the Trinity, but reject nearly all the other fundamentals they espouse? If they're wrong about those other things, why aren't they wrong about the Bible as well? No reason, you just like it that way.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 10:27
I didn't know that was a commandment of Christianity. There is a difference between God's direct will and His permissive will.

There's a lot you don't know. Start with the Epistle to Philemon.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 10:35
No, I do not support slavery.

Galatians 3:26-29, "<sup class="versenum">26 </sup>So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God <sup class="crossreference" value='(AR (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29129AR))'></sup> through faith, <sup class="versenum">27 </sup>for all of you who were baptized into Christ <sup class="crossreference" value='(AS (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29130AS))'></sup> have clothed yourselves with Christ. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AT (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29130AT))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">28 </sup>There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AU (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AU))'></sup> nor is there male and female, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AV (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AV))'></sup> for you are all one in Christ Jesus. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AW (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29131AW))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">29 </sup>If you belong to Christ, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AX (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AX))'></sup> then you are Abraham’s seed, <sup class="crossreference" value='(AY (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AY))'></sup> and heirs <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-29132AZ))'></sup> according to the promise. "

Paul is talking about the afterlife. Not life here. One more time, Paul believed Jesus was coming back soon, real soon. Therefore, things of those world were irrelevant. All that mattered was "Christ Crucified". He was obviously mistaken.

1 Peter 2:18
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

You selectivity quote and believe the Bible.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 10:41
James 5:13-16, "Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AA (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30368AA))'></sup> Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AB (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30368AB))'></sup> <sup class="versenum">14 </sup>Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders <sup class="crossreference" value='(AC (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30369AC))'></sup> of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil <sup class="crossreference" value='(AD (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30369AD))'></sup> in the name of the Lord. <sup class="versenum">15 </sup>And the prayer offered in faith <sup class="crossreference" value='(AE (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30370AE))'></sup> will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>Therefore confess your sins <sup class="crossreference" value='(AF (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30371AF))'></sup> to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. <sup class="crossreference" value='(AG (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-30371AG))'></sup> The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up.

No, the prayers will not make the sick person well. That's BS. If the sick person gets well,those who prayed rush in to take credit for it. If the sick person get worse, they make excuses. Even a child can see through that. Do you ever ask yourself if the things you read make sense?

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 10:55
Fundamentalist beliefs appeared 1500 years after the fundamentals of the Church were laid down. You pick and choose the fundamentals you will believe and those you will dismiss. That allows you to create a new church that adheres to what you want to believe. Ever notice how different all the fundamentalist churches are? Ever notice how they think every other fundamentalist is wrong? Do you see no absurdity in your belief that Catholic Bible is the the word of God, and you accept their concept of the Trinity, but reject nearly all the other fundamentals they espouse? If they're wrong about those other things, why aren't they wrong about the Bible as well? No reason, you just like it that way.

Actually, the protestant bible is different than the catholic bible. The catholic church decided to add books that are not recognized by protestanism. Further, since the cannon already existed and they came along and put their stamp of approval on what already existed and then decided to add two more books has no relevance to protestant movement, which is a reform movement of catholicism, because it decided that the bible was not sufficient and then created their own tradition which often contradicts what is actually written in scripture.

The protestant reformation continues as it is a search for truth. So, I could argue the same thing for the honest Atheist, who also makes the same claim. The dishonest Atheists, on the other hand, claims to do that, while already having a preconceived idea that they will not be allowed to changed by any sort of evidence.

When I discover things as I study the bible that challenge my preconceived belief, then I must alter my preconceived idea to the truth I have found. As I study, daily, there are pieces to the puzzle that find their slot, which is tremendously satisfying.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 11:07
No, the prayers will not make the sick person well. That's BS. If the sick person gets well,those who prayed rush in to take credit for it. If the sick person get worse, they make excuses. Even a child can see through that. Do you ever ask yourself if the things you read make sense?

It happened to me. God works not only with faith, but by the wisdom he has given physicians and wholistic medicines. God answers sincere prayer, we're often not sure by what vehicle.

I am no longer prediabetic, my innards are no longer inflamed and trying eat themselves apart.

Further, as I notice things, and go to a doctor, and say, "test me for this" we find a solution to the problem.

I have been given impressions about what things should be tested for, been found true, and then solved.

So, God is by no means opposed to modern methods and natural methods of solving illness problems.

So, I equate it to the following well known allegory:

A man knew a severe flood was comming, his neighbors were evacuating and offered him a ride out the danger zone and replied, "I will wait here and pray, God will rescue me."

So, the neigbors drove off.

The flood waters came, and the man had to retreat to the top of his roof to escape the inevitable flood waters. The man prayed that God would rescue him.

Along came a man in a boat, saw the man on the roof, and offered to let him into the boat.

"No, the man replied, I will wait here, I am praying God will rescue me."

So, the man shakes his head in disbelief and leaves in the boat.

So, the man, a bit dejected, continues to pray that God will rescue him, and the water rises and he is now on a corner of his roof.

A helicoper comes along and sees the pitiful man on the roof, and lowers him a ladder.

"No!" Calls up the man, "I am praying God will rescue me!"

So, the man in the helicoper shakes his head in disbelief and flies off to look for other people to help.

As the water begins to engulf the man, he calls out to God.

"God, why didn't you save me! I have been praying that you would save me!"

God answers him. "First, I sent your neighbors, then I sent you a man in a boat, and then a helicopter."

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 11:23
No, I'm concluding that the masters in Ephesians and 1 Timothy were. Was that really unclear?

What you are trying to infer is not accuarate. You care claiming that God endorsed slavery. None of the passages state that. What they say is no matter where you find yourself, do all that you can to bring glory to Christ rather than disdain. The pagan Romans owned slaves. If the slave became a Christian, they are being told to witness to their pagan Roman owner by their diligence.


I'm aware of the slavery practices of Rome, and Egypt for that matter. That has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Neither Romans nor Egyptians are imposing the slavery accepted and perpetuated in the Bible.

We are shown by example how to behave as Joseph behaved when he was forced into bondage. He did all things for the glory of God was blessed, and by his example, he and the Hebrews prospered in Egypt until a new Pharoah came along and enslaved them.

Pagan Romans had Christian slaves as the slaves converted to Christianity.


Could you point out where in the story of Joseph it says that slavery is wrong? I must have missed it.

Yes, you apparently missed where Joseph's brothers tossed him in a cistern, sold their brother into slavery, took his cloak and tore it and put blood on it to lie to their father.

Or Exodus 21:6, “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2094O))'></sup> whether the victim has been sold <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2094P))'></sup> or is still in the kidnapper’s possession."

So, apparently, it was such an anathema it made it into Israel's civil law.


Are you seriously claiming there's no difference between living in the modern world and holding a job and being a slave in Rome? If a slave in the Roman Empire (or republic for that matter) decided they didn't care for their Master, did they have the option to leave and seek a new one?

Roman slavery was like indentured servitude. If you sign a contract today for a term of employment today, then violate the terms of that contract, what happens to you? There are very much modern examples in early America of debtors prisons.

So, there are pseudo modern equivalents even today, though you do not see them.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 11:46
Actually, the protestant bible is different than the catholic bible. The catholic church decided to add books that are not recognized by protestanism. It has more books and some books have information not included in the King James. Why did the Protestants choose to leave the additional information out?

As for adding books, the Jews could say the same thing about your Bible.

Further, since the cannon already existed and they came along and put their stamp of approval on what already existed When was it canonized and by whom?

and then decided to add two more books has no relevance to protestant movement, which is a reform movement of catholicism, because it decided that the bible was not sufficient They're right. I respect them for being honest about that and trying to address the flaws.

The protestant reformation continues as it is a search for truth. The Protestant Reformation began as a quest for power. The Church claimed it had the right to rule the temporal world. The temporal rulers claimed the Divine Right of Kings. If a king refused to obey, mostly on matters of how much money the king should give the Pope, the Pope could excommunicate him. This meant the king's subjects didn't have to pay him taxes. Martin Luther gave them a way out. Frederick III of Saxony kidnapped Martin Luther and held him as a house guest (prisoner). Then he announced he was a Lutheran and told the Pope to take a leap. After that, non-Roman Catholic Christanity spread like wildfire, and the rest is history. A very bloody horrific history of inhumane acts committed by both sides. Did Henry VIII have himself declared head of the Church of England to reform the Church or did he do it because the Church was getting in his way? At the time, the Church held an extraordinary amount of wealth. Did the fact that Henry VII, as head of the Church, could expropriate the wealth of the Church to use as he saw fit have anything to do with decision to "reform" the Church?


When I discover things as I study the bible that challenge my preconceived belief, then I must alter my preconceived idea to the truth I have found. As I study, daily, there are pieces to the puzzle that find their slot, which is tremendously satisfying.

Can you give a specific instance when you had a substantial change of opinion about your belief system based on what you learned?

muscogee
05-26-2012, 11:52
It happened to me. God works not only with faith, but by the wisdom he has given physicians and wholistic medicines. God answers sincere prayer, we're often not sure by what vehicle.

So you agree that prayer is not sufficient to heal the sick and infirm.

I am no longer prediabetic, my innards are no longer inflamed and trying eat themselves apart.

Was the caused by a change in diet and lifestyle or prayer?

I've already heard all you're dumb analogies when I was in the church. Next time, just give the punch line.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 13:53
So you agree that prayer is not sufficient to heal the sick and infirm.

It can be. However, if a person purposfully ignores all alternatives at their disposal than they are foolish.


Was the caused by a change in diet and lifestyle or prayer?

Yes.


I've already heard all you're dumb analogies when I was in the church. Next time, just give the punch line.

The punchline is meaningless without the back story. Also, you aren't the only one who reads these posts. We aren't PMing each other.

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 17:22
Re: OP. The RR should cease complaining? Why? It is an effective means of advancing an agenda. Atheist complain/whine to advance their own agenda. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

That's fine if you and your ilk don't mind looking like fools for constantly putting forth invalid complaints. The article does a pretty good job of explaining that.

What's good for the goose ain't so great for the unicorn.

muscogee
05-26-2012, 17:33
It can be. However, if a person purposfully ignores all alternatives at their disposal than they are foolish.

The success rate at the Oral Roberts hospital in Tulsa is no better than any other hospital. If there were anything to faith healing they would have a higher success rate. In fact, all church related hospitals should have a higher success rate. Prayer is is not a meaningful alternative. It's wishful thinking. Nothing else. You can impose meaning on random events or man made events if you want. However, that's foolish. Facing the truth isn't.

If death is God's punishment for the Garden of Eden and Heaven is a better place than Earth, why would a Christian want to avoid death? Is it because they really don't believe in what they're selling?

I went from 98% blockage in one coronary artery and over 70% blockage in most of the others to less than 20% in three and less than 5% in all the others. Prayer had nothing to do with it because no one prayed for me. I didn't pray for me. It was entirely due to diet, exercise, and modern medicine.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 18:57
What you are trying to infer is not accuarate. The reader infers, the writer implies.
You care claiming that God endorsed slavery. None of the passages state that. Yes, they do. By setting out the rules of how to own and treat a slave they implicitly endorse the institution.
What they say is no matter where you find yourself, do all that you can to bring glory to Christ rather than disdain. The pagan Romans owned slaves. If the slave became a Christian, they are being told to witness to their pagan Roman owner by their diligence. Did Christians own slaves? Simple yes or no question.
We are shown by example how to behave as Joseph behaved when he was forced into bondage. He did all things for the glory of God was blessed, and by his example, he and the Hebrews prospered in Egypt until a new Pharoah came along and enslaved them. I'm not arguing that isn't what the story says, but it also says that Joseph's owner was rewarded for owning his slave Joseph.
Pagan Romans had Christian slaves as the slaves converted to Christianity. No one is claiming "pagan Romans" didn't have slaves. Did Christian Romans also have slaves? What about Christians of other empires and nations?
Yes, you apparently missed where Joseph's brothers tossed him in a cistern, sold their brother into slavery, took his cloak and tore it and put blood on it to lie to their father.

Or Exodus 21:6, “Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, <sup class="crossreference" value='(O (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2094O))'></sup> whether the victim has been sold <sup class="crossreference" value='(P (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-2094P))'></sup> or is still in the kidnapper’s possession."

So, apparently, it was such an anathema it made it into Israel's civil law. All of Joseph's brothers were put to death for enslaving, not kidnapping, him? Could you point out the passage that recounts those executions?

Out of curiosity, if Jacob had chosen to sell his daughter to Dinah into slavery, would that have also been punished with death?
Roman slavery was like indentured servitude. No, it wasn't. Indentured servitude was contracted for a specific time and carried numerous restrictions. Roman slavery involved neither of those characteristics.
If you sign a contract today for a term of employment today, then violate the terms of that contract, what happens to you? I wouldn't get sold to someone else or executed.
There are very much modern examples in early America of debtors prisons. The 18th century is now modern? Again, those were punishments, not slavery.
So, there are pseudo modern equivalents even today, though you do not see them. None of these are equivalent to slavery. That you're even willing to attempt such an absurd argument demonstrates how much you have twist reality to fit your supposed fundamentalism.

fgutie35
05-26-2012, 19:22
90% of Americans agree that birth control is moral. This is a manufactured conflict.
Another end time prediction? Care to set a date?

So if you have ten chickens and nine of them can cuack, are you going to conclude that they are ducks!

And no, I do not know the day neither i pretent to know one. Not even Jesus knows; only God.
And the prediction don't come from me, it comes from the bible who teaches us to learn how to read the signs of the last days. Could provide you with scripture, but won't make much difference to you.

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 20:10
So if you have ten chickens and nine of them can cuack, are you going to conclude that they are ducks!



Why not? People have concluded far crazier scenarios from talking snakes and donkeys that they only heard a second hand account of.

The point was that if 90% are fine with birth control then the 10% that don't want anything to do with it should remove themselves from those situations. Don't plant yourself in a pharmacy or at the head of a health care providing company and then complain that someone going about their daily business of getting their pill is violating your rights.

herose
05-26-2012, 20:23
Originally Posted by Gunhaver
when I'm chewin' ass I prefer Christian ass.

You chew ass? Ugh disgusting

Paul7
05-26-2012, 20:33
It has more books and some books have information not included in the King James. Why did the Protestants choose to leave the additional information out?

This is why:

http://carm.org/why-apocrypha-not-in-bible

The Protestant Reformation began as a quest for power.

This is simply not true, it began as a movement to the Gospel. Martin Luther said he would have given the pope his supremacy if he had not perverted the Gospel.

http://www.theopedia.com/95_Theses

Did Henry VIII have himself declared head of the Church of England to reform the Church or did he do it because the Church was getting in his way?

Probably both. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 20:39
You chew ass? Ugh disgusting

Perhaps he likes salad?:dunno:

Paul7
05-26-2012, 20:40
Fundamentalist beliefs appeared 1500 years after the fundamentals of the Church were laid down.

Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.

Ever notice how they think every other fundamentalist is wrong?

Which is different from saying they are not saved, as you aren't.

Paul7
05-26-2012, 20:42
90% of Americans agree that birth control is moral. This is a manufactured conflict.


Irrelevant, that's like me pointing out less than 15% of Americans believe in naturalistic evolution. Obama is trying to force the Catholic Church to be involved in something it considers a mortal sin. What next, is he going to make Jews and Muslims eat pork? Most Americans have no problem with that either.

Kingarthurhk
05-26-2012, 20:50
The reader infers, the writer implies.

Yes, and you imply and contrive a lot of what is not there.


Yes, they do. By setting out the rules of how to own and treat a slave they implicitly endorse the institution.

They are not endorsing the institution, rather trying to induce their members how to endure it in a Christian manner.

Did Christians own slaves? Simple yes or no question.

There is no account that you have documented within the text that they did.


I'm not arguing that isn't what the story says, but it also says that Joseph's owner was rewarded for owning his slave Joseph.

Only in as much as God was blessing Joseph.

Matthew 5:45, "that you may be children <sup class="crossreference" value='(AZ (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cen-NIV-23280AZ))'></sup> of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."


No one is claiming "pagan Romans" didn't have slaves. Did Christian Romans also have slaves? What about Christians of other empires and nations?

None that are documented within the texts cited.


All of Joseph's brothers were put to death for enslaving, not kidnapping, him? Could you point out the passage that recounts those executions?

The account happened in Genesis. It was not until Israel was formed into a nation in Exodus was this made a civil penalty. More than likely to keep this sort of thing from being done again.


Out of curiosity, if Jacob had chosen to sell his daughter to Dinah into slavery, would that have also been punished with death?

He wouldn't, obviously he didn't, and once again your time line is off.


No, it wasn't. Indentured servitude was contracted for a specific time and carried numerous restrictions. Roman slavery involved neither of those characteristics.

Interesting, as history documents the process in which Roman slaves could buy their freedom.


I wouldn't get sold to someone else or executed.
The 18th century is now modern? Again, those were punishments, not slavery.

If you borke a contract you could face civil and criminal penalties. Sounds pretty indentured to me.


None of these are equivalent to slavery. That you're even willing to attempt such an absurd argument demonstrates how much you have twist reality to fit your supposed fundamentalism.

Just trying to give you a close equivalent in a modern context you might understand better.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 20:50
So if you have ten chickens and nine of them can cuack, are you going to conclude that they are ducks! That's such a complete non sequitur I have no idea how to respond. The point I was making is that 90% of the US population agrees that birth control is not a moral issue. What does that have to do with chickens or ducks?
And no, I do not know the day neither i pretent to know one. Not even Jesus knows; only God. Aren't Jesus and God the same person?
And the prediction don't come from me, it comes from the bible who teaches us to learn how to read the signs of the last days. Could provide you with scripture, but won't make much difference to you. If the signs are there, and easy to read, why do so many people come to completely different conclusions about the "last days"?

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 20:55
Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.

Oh, I'm sure there are some things done in that early church that you don't want to be associated with. You might want to rethink that statement.

Which is different from saying they are not saved, as you aren't.

Are you more saved than them or is everyone equally saved?

How do you know who is and isn't? My grandfather, the most religious nut I've ever known, used to say that one of the biggest displays of arrogance a christian could make is any statement on who may be saved and who may not.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 20:56
Irrelevant, that's like me pointing out less than 15% of Americans believe in naturalistic evolution. No, it isn't. Evolution is something for which there is evidence, the birth control issue is one of societal standards. As the cited poll shows us, that question is settled.
Obama is trying to force the Catholic Church to be involved in something it considers a mortal sin. No, he's trying to compel an employer to provide for employees' health. I can see why a Christian institution would oppose helping people.
What next, is he going to make Jews and Muslims eat pork? Most Americans have no problem with that either. No one is trying to force anyone to take birth control, rather the effort is to make the option available. Would you agree with an effort to outlaw pork consumption because it violates some religion's dietary laws? That would be a better analogy for the current situation.

Gunhaver
05-26-2012, 21:04
Irrelevant, that's like me pointing out less than 15% of Americans believe in naturalistic evolution. Obama is trying to force the Catholic Church to be involved in something it considers a mortal sin. What next, is he going to make Jews and Muslims eat pork? Most Americans have no problem with that either.

A better comparison would be Jews and Muslims whining about their tax dollars paying for food stamps that would allow people to buy pork and shrimp. You really have a problem with the concept of analogies don't you?

Edit: Oh look, AM and I came to almost the same conclusion independent of each other. Just like Darwin and Wallace. AM gets to be Darwin because he was first. I'll just disappear into obscurity... for tonight.

Animal Mother
05-26-2012, 21:18
Yes, and you imply and contrive a lot of what is not there. My position finds far more support in the text than does yours.
They are not endorsing the institution, rather trying to induce their members how to endure it in a Christian manner. Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly. (Leviticus 25:44-46) Seems like rules for buying and owning slaves to me. Did you need more?
There is no account that you have documented within the text that they did. Seriously? This is the problem with waiting for God to tell about scriptures instead of reading them yourself. If you had, you probably would have stumbled over the epistle to Philemon.

On the other hand, if you'd simply bothered to read the scripture I've quoted in this thread you would have seen a relevant passage from 1 Timothy:
All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.(1 Timothy 6:1-2)
Only in as much as God was blessing Joseph. Which involved rewarding Joseph's master for owning a slave. You're beginning to understand.
None that are documented within the texts cited. You're mistaken, as shown above.
The account happened in Genesis. It was not until Israel was formed into a nation in Exodus was this made a civil penalty. More than likely to keep this sort of thing from being done again. Exodus outlawed enslaving people? Which verse or verses?
He wouldn't, obviously he didn't, and once again your time line is off. Why wouldn't he? It was apparently common enough that laws need to be put into place to regulate the practice.
Interesting, as history documents the process in which Roman slaves could buy their freedom. Something they could do only if their owners allowed them to have money and also consented to freeing the slave.
If you borke a contract you could face civil and criminal penalties. Sounds pretty indentured to me. Now you're equating participating in a contract with slavery?
Just trying to give you a close equivalent in a modern context you might understand better.You're failing, badly.

fgutie35
05-26-2012, 21:46
That's such a complete non sequitur I have no idea how to respond. The point I was making is that 90% of the US population agrees that birth control is not a moral issue. What does that have to do with chickens or ducks?
Just because 90% of people say they don't consider it inmoral does not negate the fact that is inmoral. That is like saying that 99% of sodome and gomorrah believed sodomy was not inmoral, therefore it must not be inmoral.
Aren't Jesus and God the same person?
Jesus is part of the trinity as it is the Father, but a different entity from the Father. I used Jesus' own words; "not even I know the date nor the time, only the Father".
If the signs are there, and easy to read, why do so many people come to completely different conclusions about the "last days"?
Because you should not come to conclusions to begin with (see reference above). Only thing you need to know is when the time is drawing near, so you can prepare.
If you are as smart as you claim to be, then think of the implications if God was to let us know the exact time and date!

randrew379
05-27-2012, 00:42
Actually, the protestant bible is different than the catholic bible. The catholic church decided to add books that are not recognized by protestanism. Further, since the cannon already existed and they came along and put their stamp of approval on what already existed and then decided to add two more books has no relevance to protestant movement, which is a reform movement of catholicism, because it decided that the bible was not sufficient and then created their own tradition which often contradicts what is actually written in scripture.

The protestant reformation continues as it is a search for truth. So, I could argue the same thing for the honest Atheist, who also makes the same claim. The dishonest Atheists, on the other hand, claims to do that, while already having a preconceived idea that they will not be allowed to changed by any sort of evidence.

When I discover things as I study the bible that challenge my preconceived belief, then I must alter my preconceived idea to the truth I have found. As I study, daily, there are pieces to the puzzle that find their slot, which is tremendously satisfying.

If you're referring to the Apocrypha, the first KJV also had it. But later someone decided to remove it from that inerrant text.

muscogee
05-27-2012, 01:15
This is simply not true, it began as a movement to the Gospel. Martin Luther said he would have given the pope his supremacy if he had not perverted the Gospel..

Martin Luther was mad. If Frederick III of Saxony hadn't made him a "guest", and used him to break away from the Pope, the Reformation would have started with someone else. The issue was how to get out from under Roman rule and still hold power. The workings of the Church mattered to the nobility only in as much as Rome got in its way. If Rome had left them alone there would have been no Reformation. As always, religion was a good way to whip up the masses.

muscogee
05-27-2012, 01:25
Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.
Really? They have all sold everything they had and given it to the church like they did in Acts? I'll bet John Hagee hasn't. I'll bet Oral Roberts didn't either.

Which is different from saying they are not saved, as you aren't. The LDS, JWs, snake handlers etc. are all saved? Good to know. Last I heard you said they were a cult. However, it's good to know you can believe anything you want as long as you claim you're a Christian and still be saved.

muscogee
05-27-2012, 01:36
Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.
So when was the Bible canonized and by whom?

USCgrad
05-27-2012, 02:49
I didn't know that was a commandment of Christianity. There is a difference between God's direct will and His permissive will.

It was Christians who ended the slave trade, not secular humanists.

and here i thought it was the north...:rofl:

Kingarthurhk
05-27-2012, 02:54
If you're referring to the Apocrypha, the first KJV also had it. But later someone decided to remove it from that inerrant text.

http://www.biblebelievers.net/bibleversions/kjcapocr.htm

Paul7
05-27-2012, 20:08
Really? They have all sold everything they had and given it to the church like they did in Acts?

Where does it say that is normative for all Christians. Because Jesus told Peter to walk on the water does that mean I have to also?

The LDS, JWs, snake handlers etc. are all saved?

You said other fundamentalists, then you change the subject to LDS and JW.

Getting back to the OP, there was a story in the local paper today where a UNM student wrote a book review of a book on two lesbians she was required to read. She was expelled from class when her Christian views on homosexual activity were made known in the review. I see a lawsuit in UNM's future.

From the same school, a student's mom told me her orchestra leader picked up a tract that had been passed around and said, "Who would believe this stuff today?" What does that have to do with music?

Paul7
05-27-2012, 20:10
So when was the Bible canonized and by whom?

http://www.gotquestions.org/canon-Bible.html

Paul7
05-27-2012, 20:12
How do you know who is and isn't?

Where did I say I knew that?

My grandfather, the most religious nut I've ever known,

He must be very proud of you....

Paul7
05-27-2012, 20:12
Martin Luther was mad.

I'm sure he would say the same of you.

Paul7
05-27-2012, 20:14
A better comparison would be Jews and Muslims whining about their tax dollars paying for food stamps that would allow people to buy pork and shrimp. You really have a problem with the concept of analogies don't you?



Not at all, when you come up with a good one let me know.

Paul7
05-27-2012, 20:15
Re: OP. The RR should cease complaining? Why? It is an effective means of advancing an agenda. Atheist complain/whine to advance their own agenda. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Exactly, there are no bigger whiners today than atheists.

Animal Mother
05-27-2012, 21:26
Just because 90% of people say they don't consider it inmoral does not negate the fact that is inmoral. Immoral. That's pretty much exactly what it means. At one point the majority thought that interracial marriage was immoral. Now they don't, though I'd hazard a guess that the percentage who don't is something less than 90%, does that mean it was never immoral or it is still immoral?
That is like saying that 99% of sodome and gomorrah believed sodomy was not inmoral, therefore it must not be inmoral.If the population believed that, then within that population it wouldn't be immoral.
Jesus is part of the trinity as it is the Father, but a different entity from the Father. I used Jesus' own words; "not even I know the date nor the time, only the Father". Christianity is a polytheistic religion then. Got it.

Because you should not come to conclusions to begin with (see reference above). Only thing you need to know is when the time is drawing near, so you can prepare. It sure seems to draw near a lot for something that never happens.
If you are as smart as you claim to be, then think of the implications if God was to let us know the exact time and date!I do, foremost among them would be the complete lack of authority for the church when the date and time came and passed without incident. Though that doesn't seem to have hurt the Jehovah's Witnesses of the Seventh Day Adventists too much.

Gunhaver
05-27-2012, 21:47
Not at all, when you come up with a good one let me know.

Muslims and Jews whining about their tax dollars being used to buy pork and shrimp is nothing like Christians whining about their tax dollars being used to pay for birth control? Okaaaaaay...

What about the Muslim girl that thought she shouldn't have to ring up the bacon and beer in the store she worked in. Like that one better? I think you'd agree she should be willing to perform the function of her job if she wants to keep it but maybe not because she's Muslim and gets no special considerations from you.

Gunhaver
05-27-2012, 21:54
Where did I say I knew that?





Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee
Fundamentalist beliefs appeared 1500 years after the fundamentals of the Church were laid down.
Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.

Quote:
Ever notice how they think every other fundamentalist is wrong?
Which is different from saying they are not saved, as you aren't.




Were you not telling Musky that he wouldn't be saved because he was an atheist as opposed to some flavor of Christian?

Animal Mother
05-27-2012, 22:14
Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.Is not having advanced since the iron age really something to brag about?

muscogee
05-27-2012, 22:20
Where does it say that is normative for all Christians. Because Jesus told Peter to walk on the water does that mean I have to also?
Since it was the only Church at the time, yes, it was normative. Yet another example of selectively believing the Bible. Jesus said to get to Heaven you have to sell everything you have, give it to the poor, and follow him. I'm sure that doesn't apply to you either. That stuff about feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, clothing the naked, and visiting those in prison doesn't apply to you either, but your church follows the early Christian churches. As I've said before, you don't believe the Bible any more than I do. The difference is I'm honest.

muscogee
05-27-2012, 22:30
I'm sure he would say the same of you.

No, he wouldn't. Anyway, what do you know about Luther other than traditional propaganda? Try "A world Lit Only by Fire" by William Manchester. It's a cold blooded look at the Reformation.

muscogee
05-27-2012, 22:37
What about the Muslim girl that thought she shouldn't have to ring up the bacon and beer in the store she worked in. Like that one better? I think you'd agree she should be willing to perform the function of her job if she wants to keep it but maybe not because she's Muslim and gets no special considerations from you.

Good point, How is refusing to sell pork different from Christian pharmacists refusing to sell contraceptive because it's against their religious beliefs?

GAFinch
05-28-2012, 21:52
Is not having advanced since the iron age really something to brag about?

So Christianity is outdated? Know what predates Christianity?

-Casual sex
-Swinger parties
-Birth control
-Abortion
-No fault divorce
-Sodomy
-Gay rights
-Legal prostitution

All of these "modern" "enlightened" ideas are more archaic than Christianity. All of these were outlawed by 1st century Christianity. If devout Christians are going to be called Jesus freaks, then secular people should be called Pluto freaks.

Animal Mother
05-28-2012, 23:38
So Christianity is outdated? The Iron Age is outdated. Know how you can tell? Look at the device you're using to read this post. Is it made of Iron? No? There you go.
Know what predates Christianity?

-Casual sex
-Swinger parties
-Birth control
-Abortion
-No fault divorce
-Sodomy
-Gay rights
-Legal prostitution

All of these "modern" "enlightened" ideas are more archaic than Christianity. All of these were outlawed by 1st century Christianity. If devout Christians are going to be called Jesus freaks, then secular people should be called Pluto freaks.Did someone call Christians Jesus Freaks in this conversation? Strawman much?

SIGlock
05-29-2012, 19:49
Did someone call Christians Jesus Freaks in this conversation?

I believe you just did.:supergrin:

Paul7
05-30-2012, 12:41
So Christianity is outdated? Know what predates Christianity?

-Casual sex
-Swinger parties
-Birth control
-Abortion
-No fault divorce
-Sodomy
-Gay rights
-Legal prostitution

All of these "modern" "enlightened" ideas are more archaic than Christianity. All of these were outlawed by 1st century Christianity. If devout Christians are going to be called Jesus freaks, then secular people should be called Pluto freaks.

AM, the Pluto freak.

:thumbsup:

Paul7
05-30-2012, 12:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by muscogee
Fundamentalist beliefs appeared 1500 years after the fundamentals of the Church were laid down.
Nonsense, there is little differing between a modern Bible-believing evangelical and the early church. My 'sect' (as AM calls it) is 2,000 years old.

Quote:
Ever notice how they think every other fundamentalist is wrong?
Which is different from saying they are not saved, as you aren't.




Were you not telling Musky that he wouldn't be saved because he was an atheist as opposed to some flavor of Christian?

Would not Musky tell us he is not a Christian? Is he lying to us? What I don't know is whether someone else claiming to be a Christian is truly saved.

Paul7
05-30-2012, 12:45
What about the Muslim girl that thought she shouldn't have to ring up the bacon and beer in the store she worked in. Like that one better? I think you'd agree she should be willing to perform the function of her job if she wants to keep it but maybe not because she's Muslim and gets no special considerations from you.

Another bad analogy. A better one would be if a Muslim health care facility were to be forced to serve bacon and beer. You know, it would be so unfair not to have equal access, right?

scccdoc
05-30-2012, 12:50
Your thread's title is: "Why the religious right should stop whining about being persecuted?"

Your answers: " when I'm chewin's ass I prefer Christian ass".

Does it sounds very fair?

NOPE. Then... you just answered your own dumb question.:rofl:

:rofl: