Islamic Terror: Is It a New Threat? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Paul7
06-01-2012, 17:26
http://islam-watch.org/MA_Khan/IncessantTerrorism.htm

snowbird
06-02-2012, 14:37
Satan has come up with various evil systems over the ages; communism, Nazism, but Islam predates those by over a millenium. Our Christian ancestors were smarter than we've been so far -they knew what a scourge Islam is and fought it to a standstill at Tours, Lepanto, and Vienna, temporarily rolled it back in the Holy Land during the Crusades, and rolled it back until today in Iberia (but leftist dhimmis there are now undoing that hard-won victory).

I pray for wisdom in the West's leaders (and populace who vote for them).

BossGodfrey
06-06-2012, 22:06
Nevermind

Altaris
06-06-2012, 22:53
Is it a new threat? No.
The threat of Islam and Christianity have been around for a long time. Islam just happens to be the most dangerous/violent to the world at this point in time.

English
06-07-2012, 06:53
Surely that can't all be true. it must be some kind of propaganda! And even if it were true surely they can't be behaving in a similar way now can they?

Actually, no!. It was, give or take a little, all true, and they are still behaving in a similar way now where ever and when ever they can. I wonder what Akil has to say?

Good find Paul. My atheist frieds should read and learn. I don't think Christian history can come any where near this.

English

snowbird
06-07-2012, 08:45
Good find Paul. My atheist frieds should read and learn. I don't think Christian history can come any where near this.

English

Your modesty is refreshing.

And of course, not only atheists, but all of us should learn what's good for us and what isn't. Unpacking the official lies of our Leftist Establishment (such as 'Islam is a Religion of Peace') is now critical for every sentient Westerner.

Remember General Casey's infamous remarks after Major Hasan jihad-murdered all those GIs at Fort Hood? "It would be a shame...if our diversity became a casualty". Paraphrased as, "Give me diversity and give me death". I respect General Casey's service over the years, but one dumb remark can undo a lot of good.

Rally Vincent
06-07-2012, 09:30
Your modesty is refreshing.

And of course, not only atheists, but all of us should learn what's good for us and what isn't. Unpacking the official lies of our Leftist Establishment (such as 'Islam is a Religion of Peace') is now critical for every sentient Westerner.

Remember General Casey's infamous remarks after Major Hasan jihad-murdered all those GIs at Fort Hood? "It would be a shame...if our diversity became a casualty". Paraphrased as, "Give me diversity and give me death". I respect General Casey's service over the years, but one dumb remark can undo a lot of good.

I'm pretty sure the actions of the good Major already undid that.

scottz0369
06-07-2012, 20:59
If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), our first military action outside of our borders was against Islamic terrorists in the form of the Barbary Pirates as immortalized in my beloved Marines Hymn lyric -- "From the Halls of Montezuma, To the shores of Tripoli".

Semper Fi.

English
06-08-2012, 04:34
If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), our first military action outside of our borders was against Islamic terrorists in the form of the Barbary Pirates as immortalized in my beloved Marines Hymn lyric -- "From the Halls of Montezuma, To the shores of Tripoli".

Semper Fi.

I believe you are correct, but the Barbary Pirates made the western Mediterranean barely passable from the 16th Century to the early 19th Century except for European countries which had enforced treaties on them from the latter part of the 17th Century onwards as they became strong enough to do so.

They were part of the Ottoman Empire and their main profit came from the white slave trade to Muslim countries and it made them very rich. This was not something done against the wishes of the Empire but with its support. They not only seized shipping and enslaved their captives but raided coastal areas of Mediterranian Europe for slaves. As a result the whole of the coastal areas of France and Italy were made uninhabitable.

In the 17th Century, more advanced ship designs and building methods brought there by Northern European pirates enabled them to extend their slaving raids up and down the Atlantic coasts of Europe and Africa. They raided as far as Iceland - blond women were especially valuable.

The US punitive raid was the basis of the last treaty enforced on them and effectively brought their trade to an end. This was not because they kept their word but because the forces against them were overwhelming.

English

Brucev
06-08-2012, 05:44
Islam remains what it always has been, a self-avowed knife at the throat of all men.

DonGlock26
06-08-2012, 18:04
Islam has been a threat to all non-Muslims since it was created. This is why they are currently at war with Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, ect.


_

Akil8290
06-10-2012, 18:39
Islam remains what it always has been, a self-avowed knife at the throat of all men.

Really? Its done nothing but wonderful things for me:

-Given me faith.
-Has given me a direct relationship with God.
-Makes me strive to be a better person.
-Taught me respect for other faiths.

Cavalry Doc
06-10-2012, 19:39
Nope, not to me. It's been here as long as I've been alive.

I do understand that there are good muslims, that mean us no harm. I like them, and advise them not to hang out with the bad guys, and to keep their distance.

I usually advise twice the blast radius of the most common ordnance used by the US in the theater, as the proper distance to keep.....


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/GWOT.gif

Don't blame me for not trying, either way.

countrygun
06-10-2012, 19:56
When has Islam not been at war? If they have no one else they go to war with each other. This is just the same thing as always they just figured out how to run a computer and get on an airplane.

I have the advantage of not having a religion in the fight. It isn't really neccessary. I look at my Country, founded by Christians (despite the revsionist lies) I see how far it has come in less than three-hundred years. ( Think about how many targets the scum of 9/11 had to choose from). Despite the Islamic control for centuries a large part of their domain is still a%$#%-hole.

Let me see, in our intervention in Bosnia not long ago, who did we really protect from ethnic cleansing?

No, folks, we are the best, I am not going to hang my head when I say it, I am not going to apologize for it. Their insane war on everything around them threatens the best this world has to offer, their offer is to try and drag the world down to their level, and I deliberately use the word "DOWN"

English
06-11-2012, 05:16
When has Islam not been at war? If they have no one else they go to war with each other. This is just the same thing as always they just figured out how to run a computer and get on an airplane.

I have the advantage of not having a religion in the fight. It isn't really neccessary. I look at my Country, founded by Christians (despite the revsionist lies) I see how far it has come in less than three-hundred years. ( Think about how many targets the scum of 9/11 had to choose from). Despite the Islamic control for centuries a large part of their domain is still a%$#%-hole.

Let me see, in our intervention in Bosnia not long ago, who did we really protect from ethnic cleansing?

No, folks, we are the best, I am not going to hang my head when I say it, I am not going to apologize for it. Their insane war on everything around them threatens the best this world has to offer, their offer is to try and drag the world down to their level, and I deliberately use the word "DOWN"

This just isn't fair! When we think that a particular war is Muslims going to war with Muslims that is just an error on our part. from the Muslims' point of view the other Muslims and just not proper Muslims and so deserve extermination as much as infidels. I hope this has cleared up this misunderstanding for you.

To be serious, and in a way that was serious, the dramatic progress of the USA in the last 300 years did not start from nothing. Its background was more than a century of the development of the philosophy and practice of freedom in Europe and parts of Europe. The interesting thing about that was not just its development but that the development was possible within the then current religious and political framework of society. That was a close run thing that had developed over the previous 3 or 4 centuries. The USA was just the most recent positive development of this long process and is still far from perfect.

When we look at Islam we see no such leeway for the development of freedom, but an absolute determination to maintain and extend religious and political domination. This determination is much the same as that demonstrated by the Church of Rome, even before it became known as Catholic. Bloody as its efforts were, it was nothing in comparisson to Islam which, as you say, has achieved nothing worth having in all its time.

English

kirgi08
06-11-2012, 08:49
Really? Its done nothing but wonderful things for me:

-Given me faith.
-Has given me a direct relationship with God.
-Makes me strive to be a better person.
-Taught me respect for other faiths.

That's fine.However some muslim adherents have a running body count and it will increase.Until the non-violent muslims reign in the violent ones,the derision will remain.'08.

ColdSteelNail
06-11-2012, 09:11
Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all the same. They were born during a time of ignorance. How could a follower of any of them be so arrogant as to think they're right and the others are wrong. The world would be better off without any of them.

kirgi08
06-11-2012, 10:35
The god/s achieve their power by their flock,the more in the flock the more power they have.That's why the christian god trumps all,more worshipers.'08.

:popcorn:

Cavalry Doc
06-11-2012, 13:17
Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all the same. They were born during a time of ignorance. How could a follower of any of them be so arrogant as to think they're right and the others are wrong. The world would be better off without any of them.

Lump atheism and all the other religions in there, and you have a very good point.

Norske
06-11-2012, 18:34
Islam's primary opponent today is all forms of secular government that have adopted the doctrine of separation of church and state.

The primary practitioner of which is, of course, the USA based upon the Constitution.

Sun Tzu said, "know your enemy as you know yourself, and you will not be defeated in a thousand battles".

Failure to understand exactly who Islam views as their true enemy is failure to understand our enemy, Islam.

Comparing Islam with other religions is completely moot and a waste of time.

This is no longer a war between religions.

It is a war between governmental systems.

Our best defense against Islam is to insist that all nations adopt secular government and separation of church and state. WITH insistence upon governmental respect for the liberties of the individual.

Including freedom to follow any religion (or even, no religion), so long as that religion (or absence thereof) is voluntary on the part of the individual.

Cavalry Doc
06-11-2012, 18:44
Islam's primary opponent today is all forms of secular government that have adopted the doctrine of separation of church and state.

The primary practitioner of which is, of course, the USA based upon the Constitution.

Sun Tzu said, "know your enemy as you know yourself, and you will not be defeated in a thousand battles".

Failure to understand exactly who Islam views as their true enemy is failure to understand our enemy, Islam.

Comparing Islam with other religions is completely moot and a waste of time.

This is no longer a war between religions.

It is a war between governmental systems.

Our best defense against Islam is to insist that all nations adopt secular government and separation of church and state. WITH insistence upon governmental respect for the liberties of the individual.

Including freedom to follow any religion, so long as that religion is voluntary on the part of the individual.

Wow, I think you missed it completely. Yes, Sharia is the ultimate mandate according to allah, as is the caliphate. It's not the secularism that they are combating, that is an excuse.

They are upset that they are not the most powerful and prestigious people on the planet, as they are told by their god they are destined to become. Each day they are not the most powerful and prestigious, is another day that they are reminded that they are not yet worthy of the graces of allah (or the presence of the 12th imam, depending on denomination).



You could have a christian theocracy in the United States, or a Buddhist theocracy in the United States, and it would be the same. We are the top dog (for a few more moments anyway), and that irritates them to their core.


It's not the lack of theocracy at all that makes us a target, it's simply that they are not king of the hill.

Norske
06-11-2012, 18:56
Wow, I think you missed it completely. Yes, Sharia is the ultimate mandate according to allah, as is the caliphate. It's not the secularism that they are combating, that is an excuse.

They are upset that they are not the most powerful and prestigious people on the planet, as they are told by their god they are destined to become. Each day they are not the most powerful and prestigious, is another day that they are reminded that they are not yet worthy of the graces of allah (or the presence of the 12th imam, depending on denomination).



You could have a christian theocracy in the United States, or a Buddhist theocracy in the United States, and it would be the same. We are the top dog (for a few more moments anyway), and that irritates them to their core.


It's not the lack of theocracy at all that makes us a target, it's simply that they are not king of the hill.

Doc, Islam has been technologically outclassed ever since the Portagees kicked their butts at Diu.

Western technology has kept them outclassed ever since.

But they simply do not believe that since "Allah decrees otherwise".

As you say, ever since they have been trying to rise back to the top of the heap they enjoyed between the last Crusade and Diu.

I stand by my assertion that to frame this war as one of one religion versus all others is failure to understand the enemy.

The war is one of a theocratic governmental system, Islam, versus all other forms of government. Not one of the religion of Islam versus all other religions.

One cannot defeat an enemy one refuses to understand.
:dunno:

GAFinch
06-11-2012, 19:58
If I'm not mistaken (and I could be), our first military action outside of our borders was against Islamic terrorists in the form of the Barbary Pirates as immortalized in my beloved Marines Hymn lyric -- "From the Halls of Montezuma, To the shores of Tripoli".

Semper Fi.

Yep, the so-called creator of libertarianism oversaw a war against non-state actors to protect trade interests (while using the Alien and Sedition Act to suppress his political enemies).

GAFinch
06-11-2012, 20:03
Really? Its done nothing but wonderful things for me:

-Given me faith.
-Has given me a direct relationship with God.
-Makes me strive to be a better person.
-Taught me respect for other faiths.

That's good, but unfortunately 81% (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/NYPD_Report-Radicalization_in_the_West.pdf) of US mosques are preaching violence to achieve political and religious goals.

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 01:13
That's good, but unfortunately 81% (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/NYPD_Report-Radicalization_in_the_West.pdf) of US mosques are preaching violence to achieve political and religious goals.

That's a bunch of crap.

First off, how can anyone, let alone the NYPD, even compile such data to prove that point? That would require they go to every single masjid in the U.S. and conduct comprehensive investigations of the Imams, the qutbas (sermons)and the Muslims who attend those masjids and so on.

Peter King tried to spout that same garbage and when he was called to testify as to the authenticity of that figure, he chose not to; its an absurd figure and nobody can back it up.

I suggest you do your own research rather than allow yourself to be spoonfed misinformation.

kirgi08
06-12-2012, 07:46
NYC has sent people all over ta see how easy buying guns is,the above ain't much of a reach.'08.

snowbird
06-12-2012, 09:53
AP (part of the Leftist 'Mainstream' Media) is determined to do its dhimmi best to demonize the NYPD's entirely legitimate counterterrorism program. AP is suing a New Jersey police department for denying their request for information stemming from a secret spying effort by NYPD against Muslims. I'd ask whose side they're on, but it's disgustingly obvious.

The "religion" of Islam, as of today, has launched over 19,033 deadly terror attacks just since 9/11. Bootlicking leftist dhimmi traitors apparently hate freedom of speech, hate women, hate non-Muslims, and love Sharia.

fnfalman
06-12-2012, 10:19
Inshallah

Deus Lo Volt.

They both mean the same.

Why do you One-Godders like to commit violence upon those who don't believe in your faith? You don't see Hindis and Buddhists and Hairy Krishnas going around on "crusades" or "jihads". You don't see atheists crashing planes into buildings or burning witches.

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 10:43
NYC has sent people all over ta see how easy buying guns is,the above ain't much of a reach.'08.

There's about 1500 mosques in the U.S.; you really think they sent moles to every single one? Even IF they did, which is a possibility I will only entertain for the sake of this debate, how long would it take to investigate each one to conclude its "radicalized"? And why aren't we reading about the "radical" Imams and Sheikhs who should be getting popped for conspiracy charges? The MSM loves that stuff, eats it up. Think about it: 81% of mosques are radicalized and they continue to operate and nobody is going jail? Please.

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 10:46
Inshallah

Deus Lo Volt.

They both mean the same.

Why do you One-Godders like to commit violence upon those who don't believe in your faith? You don't see Hindis and Buddhists and Hairy Krishnas going around on "crusades" or "jihads". You don't see atheists crashing planes into buildings or burning witches.

I'd debate this point with you, but seeing that you can't even spell Hare Krishna right, I don't see much getting accomplished here.

kirgi08
06-12-2012, 11:20
There's about 1500 mosques in the U.S.; you really think they sent moles to every single one? Even IF they did, which is a possibility I will only entertain for the sake of this debate, how long would it take to investigate each one to conclude its "radicalized"? And why aren't we reading about the "radical" Imams and Sheikhs who should be getting popped for conspiracy charges? The MSM loves that stuff, eats it up. Think about it: 81% of mosques are radicalized and they continue to operate and nobody is going jail? Please.

Yep.you seem ta forget the fact that they are using FOS against us.Typical Muslim antics.They subvert the laws of the nation they are trying ta control.As I've posted before,I don't care about ure beliefs.However a American Muslim and an Arabic muslim might read script a wee bit different.

Dewd,ure religion is killing folk.SBs body count ain't BS.The reason is no fear,they have no fear of reprisals.

Once tagged,the predator drones will fly over the US. Gonna get messy.'08.

Cavalry Doc
06-12-2012, 11:22
Doc, Islam has been technologically outclassed ever since the Portagees kicked their butts at Diu.

Western technology has kept them outclassed ever since.

But they simply do not believe that since "Allah decrees otherwise".

As you say, ever since they have been trying to rise back to the top of the heap they enjoyed between the last Crusade and Diu.

I stand by my assertion that to frame this war as one of one religion versus all others is failure to understand the enemy.

The war is one of a theocratic governmental system, Islam, versus all other forms of government. Not one of the religion of Islam versus all other religions.

One cannot defeat an enemy one refuses to understand.
:dunno:



I've met this enemy many times, in person. They do not separate the theocratic and political. Both are included in their requirement to achieve the caliphate, and both political and religious domination is required.

It is "one" religious/political system against all others. Some Islamic sects do not recognize others as legitimate. So it is not homogenous, but it is reasonable to understand that all sects of Islam seek the caliphate.

Also, depending on the choice of ordnance, it is possible to defeat an enemy with only a few details known about them, like 10 digit grid coordinates of all population centers with greater than 40 members.

kirgi08
06-12-2012, 11:27
Sorry Doc.'08.

fnfalman
06-12-2012, 12:10
I'd debate this point with you, but seeing that you can't even spell Hare Krishna right, I don't see much getting accomplished here.

Some things just go over people's heads.

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 12:27
Some things just go over people's heads.

No, I get your point: you're antagonistic of monotheism and to support your point, you're using instances in history where Christians and Muslims have behaved badly and went completely against the teachings of our faiths. So what?

On the other hand, you spelled Hare Krishna, "Hairy" Krishna. And you think you can debate religion?:rofl:

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 12:31
Yep.you seem ta forget the fact that they are using FOS against us.Typical Muslim antics.They subvert the laws of the nation they are trying ta control.As I've posted before,I don't care about ure beliefs.However a American Muslim and an Arabic muslim might read script a wee bit different.

Dewd,ure religion is killing folk.SBs body count ain't BS.The reason is no fear,they have no fear of reprisals.

Once tagged,the predator drones will fly over the US. Gonna get messy.'08.

What does this have to do at all with the NYPD's bogus claim that 81% of mosques are radicalized?

fnfalman
06-12-2012, 13:18
No, I get your point: you're antagonistic of monotheism and to support your point, you're using instances in history where Christians and Muslims have behaved badly and went completely against the teachings of our faiths. So what?

Instances in history? It' ain't like it happened only once or twice. in the last two thousand years:rofl:

BTW, I'm not antagonistic to monotheism. I'm antagonistic to religious hypocrisy.

On the other hand, you spelled Hare Krishna, "Hairy" Krishna. And you think you can debate religion?:rofl:

Sigh...here's a hint: biggest guys usually get called "Tiny" or "Little".

How much hair do the Hare Krishnas usually sport?

kirgi08
06-12-2012, 13:18
They pay ta go look fer illegal guns,they'll pay ta go look fer a religion that'd like ta take over this nation.'08.

fnfalman
06-12-2012, 13:21
I've met this enemy many times, in person. They do not separate the theocratic and political. Both are included in their requirement to achieve the caliphate, and both political and religious domination is required.

It is "one" religious/political system against all others. Some Islamic sects do not recognize others as legitimate. So it is not homogenous, but it is reasonable to understand that all sects of Islam seek the caliphate.

Also, depending on the choice of ordnance, it is possible to defeat an enemy with only a few details known about them, like 10 digit grid coordinates of all population centers with greater than 40 members.

And this differs from Christianity how?

The Pope used to have his own armed forces and some even waged wars.

Kings had to worry about their own people's loyalties to the Papal seat.

It wasn't until America and even then much later that religion got separated from the State.

LASTRESORT20
06-12-2012, 13:21
Islam has been a threat to all non-Muslims since it was created. This is why they are currently at war with Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, ect.


_

This^^^ `Really`

Even though the terrorist supporting liberals will disagree

Cavalry Doc
06-12-2012, 17:29
What does this have to do at all with the NYPD's bogus claim that 81% of mosques are radicalized?

It would be nice to have supportable intel, but whether or not they are radicalized, really depends on what you consider radicalized. Plenty of Imams preach for a peaceful "bread them into oblivion" tactic for achieving the caliphate.

Most of the Imams in the USA will likely be preaching that the caliphate is preordained by allah, and will happen.

If they want to convince people to convert, and strive to become the majority, that falls within first amendment. When it gets violent, I have an urge to treat them all the same way I do fire ants. It's possible that there will come a day, when the majority of Americans feel that way, then we will enter another dark period reminiscent of the trail of tears, slavery, Japanese concentration camps etc.....

I'm conflicted internally about that.

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 21:51
Instances in history? It' ain't like it happened only once or twice. in the last two thousand years:rofl:

And? What's your point?

BTW, I'm not antagonistic to monotheism. I'm antagonistic to religious hypocrisy.

So am I. However, you said in your previous post, "Why do you One-Godders like to commit violence on those who don't believe in your faith?" If that doesn't scream antagonistic towards monotheists, I don't know what does.



Sigh...here's a hint: biggest guys usually get called "Tiny" or "Little".

How much hair do the Hare Krishnas usually sport?

I don't know much about their hair or grooming practices, but I do know how to spell the name right. You can play it off as a joke as much as you want, but I think you really thought that's how the word was really spelled. In case you decide to wander back over here, here's an idea: have a point.

rgregoryb
06-12-2012, 21:58
And this differs from Christianity how?

The Pope used to have his own armed forces and some even waged wars.

Kings had to worry about their own people's loyalties to the Papal seat.

It wasn't until America and even then much later that religion got separated from the State.

come on into the present, unless you prefer to still live in the past

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 22:11
It would be nice to have supportable intel, but whether or not they are radicalized, really depends on what you consider radicalized. Plenty of Imams preach for a peaceful "bread them into oblivion" tactic for achieving the caliphate.

While I agree, my main reason for questioning the validity that claim is because its out and out untrue and absurd. If they are going to release the claim of 81% of mosques being radicalized to the public, then I want to see a detailed report of the comprehensive investigation that would have to have been compiled. Keith Ellison, from Minnesota, made the exact same inquiry when Peter King claimed 80% of mosques were radicalized and when King was called to testify to authenticity of that figure, he chose not to. Nobody can back it up.

Most of the Imams in the USA will likely be preaching that the caliphate is preordained by allah, and will happen.

I've never heard such thing in my mosque.

If they want to convince people to convert, and strive to become the majority, that falls within first amendment. When it gets violent, I have an urge to treat them all the same way I do fire ants. It's possible that there will come a day, when the majority of Americans feel that way, then we will enter another dark period reminiscent of the trail of tears, slavery, Japanese concentration camps etc.....

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and the U.S. right now. That's according to the U.S. Religion Census that was released May 1, 2012. Nobody is being forced to convert to Islam (or revert, as we call it) and nobody will be forced, because it violates the scriptures in the Qur'an and we do not, will not and should not live in a theocracy. No American would stand for it, including myself.

I'm conflicted internally about that.

As far as entering that dark period of massacres, slavery and internment..that is when America will cease to be America. I am here to tell you that I hope and pray it NEVER turns to that, but I also have no intention of allowing myself to enslaved or interned. I am one who is truly guided by God, the Qur'an and the U.S. Constitution and I have my rights and I am prepared to fight for them.

Akil8290
06-12-2012, 22:23
They pay ta go look fer illegal guns,they'll pay ta go look fer a religion that'd like ta take over this nation.'08.

Yeah, the NYPD conducted undercover operations out of state; however, they did not hit every single gun store, they couldn't. The same goes for these mosques, while they may have conducted surveillance on some that were reported to have radical Imams or possible members of sleeper cells attending them; they cannot possibly claim that 81% of U.S. mosques are radicalized. There is no data to support it. Get over it.

countrygun
06-12-2012, 23:36
Yeah, the NYPD conducted undercover operations out of state; however, they did not hit every single gun store, they couldn't. The same goes for these mosques, while they may have conducted surveillance on some that were reported to have radical Imams or possible members of sleeper cells attending them; they cannot possibly claim that 81% of U.S. mosques are radicalized. There is no data to support it. Get over it.


Where is the cut-off line? How many are "tolerable"? How many of them are being reported by the "Non-radicalized members"?

Akil8290
06-13-2012, 01:14
Where is the cut-off line? How many are "tolerable"? How many of them are being reported by the "Non-radicalized members"?

"One" should be the cut off line. If someone is preaching hate and inciting violence, it shouldn't be tolerated not even for a New York second (no pun intended).

I couldn't tell you who's reporting who, because I don't have access to that kind of information. I don't work in counter terrorism and even if I did, I damn sure wouldn't be discussing it on an open internet forum. However, I bet the reporting of radicalized Imams goes on more than we think. I've never denied that these people exist, because that would be foolish and naive, but I reject the figure when its so high and there's virtually nothing to back it up.

Cavalry Doc
06-13-2012, 05:17
As far as entering that dark period of massacres, slavery and internment..that is when America will cease to be America. I am here to tell you that I hope and pray it NEVER turns to that, but I also have no intention of allowing myself to enslaved or interned. I am one who is truly guided by God, the Qur'an and the U.S. Constitution and I have my rights and I am prepared to fight for them.

I sincerely hope it never gets there. It would be a dark period for America. But imagine nukes going off simultaneously in Los Angeles, St. Louis and Washington D.C.

Then imagine that AQ takes responsibility. Real fear causes a reaction. Fear is not always unreasonable either. America recovered from the Native American genocide, Slavery, and Japanese concentration camps. It would recover again, but it would take a long time, and it would be very sad to watch. I am all for killing and capturing the bad guys, but I am also all for leaving all the good guys completely unmolested. By design of the bad guys, it's awful hard to tell the difference some days. They try to blend in until they decide not too. But I have control only of myself. Mass Fear is a real bad thing. Bad decisions get made quickly in those situations. As I have told some of the "super patriots" that seem eager to fight the government, if it comes down to that, all the training, rifles & ammo in the world will not save you. It would be best for both of us if we never got there.

snowbird
06-13-2012, 09:12
they cannot possibly claim that 81% of U.S. mosques are radicalized. There is no data to support it.

19,040 as of today. That, of course, is the number of deadly Muslim attacks just since 9/11. No data, you say?:upeyes: Takiyya much?

But Islam uses stealth jihad as well as the violent kind in its jihad to take over the world. For exp, in St. Anthony Village, pop 8,226, Minnesota, the local Islamic Center in cahoots with CAIR (with connections to both Hamas terrorism and Saudi oil-wealth deep pockets), has threatened to sue if they don't get to build a mosque even though that violates zoning laws. The litigation could easily cost a quarter of the year's tax revenue, and if they lose, the penalty would take the rest.

Muslims have much higher birth-rates than the rest of us. Letting them continue to immigrate in droves and letting them continue to use our religious freedom in a strictly one-way manner (where are the churches in Islamic lands? where is Muslim tolerance for Christians where they're burning churches with the Christians still inside?) will result in a larger Muslim population until they feel emboldened enough to drop the takiyya tolerance nonsense and start the slaughter of any infidels who refuse to convert or submit.

Stop Muslim immigration now. Remove this cancer from our country.

fnfalman
06-13-2012, 09:18
But Islam uses stealth jihad as well as the violent kind in its jihad to take over the world. For exp, in St. Anthony Village, pop 8,226, Minnesota, the local Islamic Center in cahoots with CAIR (with connections to both Hamas terrorism and Saudi oil-wealth deep pockets), has threatened to sue if they don't get to build a mosque even though that violates zoning laws. The litigation could easily cost a quarter of the year's tax revenue, and if they lose, the penalty would take the rest.

That's their right under due process. So, you'd rather nullify the Bill of Rights?

Muslims have much higher birth-rates than the rest of us. Letting them continue to immigrate in droves and letting them continue to use our religious freedom in a strictly one-way manner

Last I checked Hispanics are heavily Catholic. Bring in more Mexicans and Central/South Americans to outbreed the Islamists.

(where are the churches in Islamic lands?

Why don't you go to Egypt and find out? There are Christian Egyptians over there. They gotta worship somewhere.

where is Muslim tolerance for Christians

Where is Christian tolerance for Muslims when the Crusaders came and "Kill them all, God will know his own"?

You One-Godder types kill me. Both intellectually and physically.

fnfalman
06-13-2012, 09:19
"One" should be the cut off line. If someone is preaching hate and inciting violence, it shouldn't be tolerated not even for a New York second (no pun intended).



The KKK and Aryan Brotherhood are still around.:dunno: I believe that they are of the Christian faith.

fnfalman
06-13-2012, 09:21
I don't know much about their hair or grooming practices, but I do know how to spell the name right. You can play it off as a joke as much as you want, but I think you really thought that's how the word was really spelled.

That's because you have neither sense of humor nor wit.

In case you decide to wander back over here, here's an idea: have a point.

I do have a point: why don't you One-Godder types first learn how to get a long between each other and then stop trying to kill others who don't believe in your God?

BTW, when the polytheists start running around trying to kill infidels, I'll put the pox on their heads too. When was the last time the Hindis go all over the world to kill/convert others? When was the last time the Greeks went and tried to convert others at the point of the sword because their gods wanted them to?

English
06-13-2012, 10:39
"One" should be the cut off line. If someone is preaching hate and inciting violence, it shouldn't be tolerated not even for a New York second (no pun intended).

I couldn't tell you who's reporting who, because I don't have access to that kind of information. I don't work in counter terrorism and even if I did, I damn sure wouldn't be discussing it on an open internet forum. However, I bet the reporting of radicalized Imams goes on more than we think. I've never denied that these people exist, because that would be foolish and naive, but I reject the figure when its so high and there's virtually nothing to back it up.

From cases in the UK which eventually came to court a few years ago but which involved action in radicalised Mosques lasting over a decade which sent many young Muslims to Pakistan, Afghanistan and, more recently, Yemen. Let me explain how it works.

Large Mosques have numerous preachers and only a few of them are actively preaching violent Jihad. Some, at the top level, seemed to have been brow beaten into accepting that they were to ignore some of the things that are going on in private rooms with small numbers of young men. The first stage in recruitment was for the recruiters to watch the behaviour of young men in prayer in the general assembly. Those who were observed to be strongly devout and moved by their prayer, perhaps more properly called submission, were approached and told that they had been selected for special classes.

These classes, limited to 6 to 10 young men, slowly opened their eyes to more extreme interpretations of the Koran and Hadith and slowly introduced the idea of religiously sanctioned violence against infidels and the rewards in Paradise. Based on each individual's reaction to these ideas, the most devout, credulous and impressionable were selected, under vows of secrecy, for more advanced classes which becme more and more extreme, in common parlance, with demonstrably clear sanction from the Koran and Hadith, from which they were eventually selected to go abroard to training camps for fighters and suicide bombers. The two categories had been identified before this.

If you accept the simple premise that religiosity varies in strength from person to person and that strong religiosity under the internal guidance of an all encompassing religious belief can lead individuals to extreme acts of bravery and self sacrifice, the above system is very simple and effective. In this situation it is relatively easy for clever and well read men to manipulate this psychologically extreme group to perform extreme actions. When so many have been brought up to glorify the "martyrs" and fighters for Islam it has all the difficulty of taking candy from a baby.

The other thing that was clear was that the ordinary worshippers did not know what was going on. They often knew and objected to the fact that the control of their Mosque had been taken over by hard faced and intollerant men acting behind the proper head of the Mosque but they did not know what was being done out of their sight. What they would have done if they had known, we do not know for two reasons.

One of those reasons is that no Muslim must do harm to or refuse help to another Muslim, no matter his reaction to the actions of that Muslim, provided those actions are against infidels rather than fellow Muslim's. The second is fear! Just as the young religious thugs of the French Banlieus and other Muslim districts in Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden and so on are able to terrorise their own people into strict religious observance as they see it - veils, burquas and so on - they are able to frighten their less extreme fellow Muslims into compliance. If nothing else, refusing to follow the first principle above renders and individual technically non Muslim and appostate. As such, violence, and extreme, violence, against him is religiously sanctioned.

We know all of this because the extreme actors in those Mosques were arrogant and blatant. By so being they attracted the attention of the media and eventually the Government. It should be said theat the Government knew about a lot of activities related to violent Jihad but chose, both immorally and stupidly, to ignore it in the belief that by doing so we would not be attacked. (Behaviour worthy of the French really!) Such a system carried out more intelligently would be properly clandestine and those with a naive view of their religion would know nothing of it.

And so, indeed, dear Akil, we have no sound way of knowing what proportion of Mosques in the USA are furthering recruitment to violent jihad, sabotage and so on. But, and this is a big but, unless you had been chosen you would not necessarilly know whether your Mosque was one of them. Neither would you know whether 10%, 50% or 100% of Mosques are recruiting for violent Jihad.

What we do know is that the Mosques, with or without the co-operation of the leaders of those Mosques, are a major centre for recruitment. If you want to pick out a specically qualified group of young Muslims you must sift through many young Muslims. Where do you find them conveniently gathered together except at the Mosque and on the Internet?

English

fnfalman
06-13-2012, 12:24
Hell, even the Islamists themselves can't get along with each other. Just like the various Christian sects.

For a group of people that worship The One True God, they're a strange bunch.

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 01:00
The KKK and Aryan Brotherhood are still around.:dunno: I believe that they are of the Christian faith.

No, they are not.

I attended Catholic school in my youth and have many Christian friends and co-workers; nowhere in the Bible nor any Christian teachings will you find white supremecist rhetoric. They can call themselves Christians all they want, but they are in fact nowhere near Christian.

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 01:20
That's because you have neither sense of humor nor wit.

I have a sense of humor, I just don't find you to be humorous and neither does anyone else, apparently. As far as wit; when you actually win a debate here using your razor sharp wit, let me know.

I do have a point: why don't you One-Godder types first learn how to get a long between each other and then stop trying to kill others who don't believe in your God?

This is a typical bone head Atheist argument; it lacks both insight and originality. You act as if all of us "One-Godder" types (monotheists; I know its a big word, fnfalman, but sound it out and try it) make it a part of our everyday lives to kill off those who don't believe in our faiths. Why don't you ask the religious fanatic totalitarians these things? Not your everyday American Christian or Muslim. I can't answer for anyone else but myself and I am here to tell you that I've never condoned such a thing nor do true Christian or Muslims. Get your head out of your butt and maybe gain some actual insight on religion before coming on here and making a fool out of yourself.

BTW, when the polytheists start running around trying to kill infidels, I'll put the pox on their heads too. When was the last time the Hindis go all over the world to kill/convert others? When was the last time the Greeks went and tried to convert others at the point of the sword because their gods wanted them to?

Good for you. BTW, its HINDUS not Hindis; Hindi is the native spoken language of the Indian sub-continent. This could just be my lack of "a sense of humor" and "wit" talking, but you are a moron of epic proportions.

Do us ALL a favor and stick to the GNG and General Firearms Forums; GTRI is not for you.

oldman11
06-14-2012, 01:40
That's a bunch of crap.

First off, how can anyone, let alone the NYPD, even compile such data to prove that point? That would require they go to every single masjid in the U.S. and conduct comprehensive investigations of the Imams, the qutbas (sermons)and the Muslims who attend those masjids and so on.

Peter King tried to spout that same garbage and when he was called to testify as to the authenticity of that figure, he chose not to; its an absurd figure and nobody can back it up.

I suggest you do your own research rather than allow yourself to be spoonfed misinformation.
And no one has any proof to deny it either.

kirgi08
06-14-2012, 01:50
The KKK and Aryan Brotherhood are still around.:dunno: I believe that they are of the Christian faith.

Yep,a offshoot.

Hell, even the Islamists themselves can't get along with each other. Just like the various Christian sects.

For a group of people that worship The One True God, they're a strange bunch.

Ayep,sects on the left and the right.

No, they are not.

I attended Catholic school in my youth and have many Christian friends and co-workers; nowhere in the Bible nor any Christian teachings will you find white supremacist rhetoric. They can call themselves Christians all they want, but they are in fact nowhere near Christian.

Yet the sects you disavow do the same thing.The body count Snowbird keeps track of and the assorted manipulations that radical muslims run are a FACT.Yet,peaceful muslims do nothing ta stop this......... Give me a total body count of recent Aryan activities.Heck I'll give you 10yrs of research.Your LEO,the #s are there for your perusal.


I've stated this before,I DON'T care what God folk worship.It's your right,however as CavDoc stated,if there is another 9/11 type incident,this nation will take reprisal.It will get ugly.'08.

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 03:53
And no one has any proof to deny it either.

Which makes it pure conjecture, doesn't it?

I'm not in the business of believing in conjecture; show me solid proof.

kirgi08
06-14-2012, 04:05
The body count is,not a fiction.'08.

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 04:23
Yep,a offshoot.

Nope. Neither of those groups are an "off shoot" of Christianity. Where in the Bible does it say the white race is superior, again? If you want me to explain to you the origins of the KKK and Aryan Nation, I will; as you have you have demonstrated in other threads, you're incapable of conducting any kind of research on your own and thus will need me to explain the origins of these groups and why their ideologies are in stark contrast to what Christianity teaches.



Ayep,sects on the left and the right.

Not that you know the difference.

Yet the sects you disavow do the same thing.The body count Snowbird keeps track of and the assorted manipulations that radical muslims run are a FACT.Yet,peaceful muslims do nothing ta stop this......... Give me a total body count of recent Aryan activities.Heck I'll give you 10yrs of research.Your LEO,the #s are there for your perusal.

I challenged that body count statistic earlier this year and was met with no rebuttal what so ever. The website that it comes from gives no mention of reference as to WHERE or HOW that data is compiled. More conjecture. However, since you present it as FACT, the burden is on you show me the proof.

As far as "recent Aryan activities", I have absolutely no idea what that has to do with our discussion at hand. While I did challenge the assertion that the Aryan Nation follows the Christian faith and your further assertion that they are an "off shoot", at no time did I try to compare them to the terror networks that operate here and abroad. Try and stay on topic.


I've stated this before,I DON'T care what God folk worship.It's your right,however as CavDoc stated,if there is another 9/11 type incident,this nation will take reprisal.It will get ugly.'08.

If it takes "reprisal" in the way that you seem to think it will, this nation will cease to stand what it has always stood for right then and there. Anyone who supports the mass internment of Muslims or any other group where their right to be what they are is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, really needs to examine their own American values. Very sad indeed.

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 04:25
the body count is,not a fiction.'08.

prove it.

Cavalry Doc
06-14-2012, 04:51
If it takes "reprisal" in the way that you seem to think it will, this nation will cease to stand what it has always stood for right then and there. Anyone who supports the mass internment of Muslims or any other group where their right to be what they are is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution, really needs to examine their own American values. Very sad indeed.

Akil,

Calm down a bit. I do understand why you are upset, and you have a right to be upset. Odds are you are a good person with a decent heart, and you are a loyal American that would never take part in willful acts of violence against strangers. I'm assuming that people can tell that you are possibly Muslim by looks alone. The problem is you are currently focussing your anger in the wrong direction. The reason that people look at you sideways when you get on a plane, or go to a movie is that they don't feel they can fully trust you. Any second, in their mind you might start chanting Allahu Akbar and explode. That is not your fault. I feel for you, as you will likely be treated with a tad bit of suspicion, forever, and that is understandably irritating. But it's not the fault of the people looking at you sideways and with suspiscon's fault either. The 13 hijackers, the Ft. Hood shooter, the attempted Ft. Hood bomber, underwear bomb wearer and maker..... The list is very, VERY long.

Want to know the difference between the KKK and the violent jihadists. When the KKK burns a cross in the front yard, we
Don't sit back and expect the black community to handle it. As a nation, all races, we condemn the act and hunt down the people responsible, agressively, and if caught, the punishment is severe.

And yes, if there is a large enough incident, all the tolerance you have received from Americans will evaporate. That would be a tragic event. But it is human nature. Terrorists want to instill fear. It works in most instances, and will cause people to stay out of your way, IF they are weaker than you. If not, fear turns to anger and then a burning need for revenge. It's just the way human brains are wired up. It's a survival instinct. Fight or flight. America has lived through very dark times before. Americans are capable of the greatest kindness, and also an embarrassing amount of absolute cruelty. America would not end for most people, for some it would.



There are opportunities to avoid that, but to be honest, the thing keeping us from getting there is that the violent jihadists have not yet been successful, but they are trying.


But hey, what do I know? I could be wrong. Good luck.

Cavalry Doc
06-14-2012, 05:21
prove it.

Akil,

Are you asking him to prove that jihadists have killed people in the US?

That would be offensive.

kirgi08
06-14-2012, 05:27
Tryin ta be polite Doc.The record is a matter of public record.'08..

Cavalry Doc
06-14-2012, 05:39
Tryin ta be polite Doc.The record is a matter of public record.'08..

I'm trying too...... I've got friends and colleagues on that list of "killed by Jihad".

kirgi08
06-14-2012, 06:04
So do I Doc/so do I.'08. :patriot:

snowbird
06-14-2012, 07:58
And this differs from Christianity how?



The inane moral equivalence argument put forth by innumerable dhimmis (using that term here to mean either naive and suicidal leftist Uncle Tom type idiots, or else leftist traitors deliberately helping our enemy in time of war:steamed:) is like a vampire -it keeps rising from its coffin unless a stake has been driven through its heart. At the risk of feeding a contrarian troll, here's the stake:

While Christians have done and still do sin and fall short of the glory of God, it does not follow that the nature of Christian (or Judaic, Zoroastrian, or other monotheistic, or non-monotheistic) teachings are equally likely to inspire violence as Islam.

For its first 3 centuries, Christianity was outlawed and persecuted. It did not spread by violence, rather, thousands of Christian martyrs were subjected to violence because they were Christians. That is still happening today as communists and Muslims often murder Christians. In contrast, Muslims faced no organized or sustained opposition, yet continued to use the sword for their faith. And that's still happening today too. Christian missionaries still boldly risk their lives preaching to the heathen, just as Saint Patrick did in Ireland, Saints Cyril and Methodius did in Eastern Europe, etc, unlike heavily armed Muslims who often use terror and murder to threaten and intimidate non-Muslims who get 3 choices: convert, be practically enslaved (classical dhimmitude), or die. Given what a miserable life classical dhimmis suffer, it's not surprising that many classical dhimmis (i.e. those conquered by Islam) ultimately chose to convert to Islam. Muslims say forced conversion is forbidden in Islam, but it's like the Mafia's "offer they can't refuse". Saying it's not force is a lie.

Bottom line: Jesus loves you, but Allah wants you dead. Wake up!

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 12:39
Akil,

Calm down a bit. I do understand why you are upset, and you have a right to be upset. Odds are you are a good person with a decent heart, and you are a loyal American that would never take part in willful acts of violence against strangers. I'm assuming that people can tell that you are possibly Muslim by looks alone. The problem is you are currently focussing your anger in the wrong direction. The reason that people look at you sideways when you get on a plane, or go to a movie is that they don't feel they can fully trust you. Any second, in their mind you might start chanting Allahu Akbar and explode. That is not your fault. I feel for you, as you will likely be treated with a tad bit of suspicion, forever, and that is understandably irritating. But it's not the fault of the people looking at you sideways and with suspiscon's fault either. The 13 hijackers, the Ft. Hood shooter, the attempted Ft. Hood bomber, underwear bomb wearer and maker..... The list is very, VERY long.

I appreciate your understanding, Doc. No, I don't look like a typical Muslim; I'm clean shaven, my hair is short and I don't don Middle Eastern garb. I work in law enforcement, so I have to maintain a clean cut appearance. The funny thing is, most people that I work with know I'm a Muslim and nobody, both on and off the job, says the things to me that people do here. Of course, its easier to run one's mouth when one has the protection of anonymity. I digress.

Want to know the difference between the KKK and the violent jihadists. When the KKK burns a cross in the front yard, we
Don't sit back and expect the black community to handle it. As a nation, all races, we condemn the act and hunt down the people responsible, agressively, and if caught, the punishment is severe.

Apples and oranges, Doc.


And yes, if there is a large enough incident, all the tolerance you have received from Americans will evaporate. That would be a tragic event. But it is human nature. Terrorists want to instill fear. It works in most instances, and will cause people to stay out of your way, IF they are weaker than you. If not, fear turns to anger and then a burning need for revenge. It's just the way human brains are wired up. It's a survival instinct. Fight or flight. America has lived through very dark times before. Americans are capable of the greatest kindness, and also an embarrassing amount of absolute cruelty. America would not end for most people, for some it would.

See, I was with you up until this point. The sentence, "And yes, if there is a large enough incident, all the tolerance you have received from Americans will evaporate," tells me right here that you don't get it; I'm an American, born and raised. Always have been, always will be. If this happens, again, depending on where it is, I could be a first responder, since I wear a badge and now my fellow Americans want to take me away? 9/11 happened to me, too; did you forget that? If America goes in that direction, after a another 9/11 type of attack, I will weep, along with the forefathers for this country. That is not the way we treat each other. Ever. Like I said before, I'm an American and I will remain one until the very end no matter what happens.

There are opportunities to avoid that, but to be honest, the thing keeping us from getting there is that the violent jihadists have not yet been successful, but they are trying.

There is no such thing as a "violent jihadist"; just terrorists. Running jetliners into sky scrapers isn't jihad, its terrorism, its murder and its a sin.


But hey, what do I know? I could be wrong. Good luck.

Thanks, but we all need the luck; we're in this all together as Americans.

Akil8290
06-14-2012, 12:50
Akil,

Are you asking him to prove that jihadists have killed people in the US?

That would be offensive.

You know good and well that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking for him to prove that so called Muslims have launched 18,000+ attacks since 9/11, as snowbird and his cheerleader, kirgi08, often claim. Nobody has.

If someone here said that 80% of African-American males in this country were criminals, I would also say prove it and in fact, I have to people on YouTube. I was also met with silence there, as well.

void *
06-14-2012, 13:38
They're probably using this:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm

It's probably slightly overcounting, as looking through the full list you see ocassional attacks on military targets, and the occassional 'attack' that may actually be criminal rather than terrorist (depending on how you define it - may be a murder here and there counted as a 'terrorist attack'). Picking a few of the recent ones at random and googling them, I find news stories that back the incidents up, although I think it would be nicer if the list were sourced.

http://www.start.umd.edu/start/ has a database of terrorist attacks, although to find out how many were 'muslim' would require a search where you set it up to search for every terrorist organization in the database, which means you have to go through and figure out which of all the groups in the db are muslim, which is a PITA.

Cavalry Doc
06-14-2012, 17:14
You know good and well that's not what I'm asking.

I'm asking for him to prove that so called Muslims have launched 18,000+ attacks since 9/11, as snowbird and his cheerleader, kirgi08, often claim. Nobody has.

If someone here said that 80% of African-American males in this country were criminals, I would also say prove it and in fact, I have to people on YouTube. I was also met with silence there, as well.

Actually, it was an honest question. You know how text sometimes doesn't reveal the true message. Read plainly, it sounded bad, so I asked. Glad to hear that is not what you meant. No hard feelings. :wavey:

Cavalry Doc
06-14-2012, 19:31
I appreciate your understanding, Doc. No, I don't look like a typical Muslim; I'm clean shaven, my hair is short and I don't don Middle Eastern garb. I work in law enforcement, so I have to maintain a clean cut appearance. The funny thing is, most people that I work with know I'm a Muslim and nobody, both on and off the job, says the things to me that people do here. Of course, its easier to run one's mouth when one has the protection of anonymity. I digress.


I really hate to be a book by it's cover guy, but what I meant is olive skinned, but not Hispanic in appearance.

I have many close colleagues that are Muslim from several different countries, including India, Pakistan, and Lebanon, and that is just in my immediate section. All great guys, and they know that I've been to the middle east three times. We've talked. We are comfortable enough around each other discussing things like this, enough that the two of the three that were here on 5Nov09 thought enough to express condolences for the friend that I lost that day. One of the Doctors, from Pakistan was intensely pissed that idiot's like this were going to screw up things for him and his kids. He was also clean cut, but said he could always feel all eyes on him when he was in a restaurant or boarding a plane. He does have a very slight accent. He's also one of the smartest guys I know, and has saved more lives than I can count easily. He is a good guy.


See, I was with you up until this point. The sentence, "And yes, if there is a large enough incident, all the tolerance you have received from Americans will evaporate," tells me right here that you don't get it; I'm an American, born and raised. Always have been, always will be. If this happens, again, depending on where it is, I could be a first responder, since I wear a badge and now my fellow Americans want to take me away? 9/11 happened to me, too; did you forget that? If America goes in that direction, after a another 9/11 type of attack, I will weep, along with the forefathers for this country. That is not the way we treat each other. Ever. Like I said before, I'm an American and I will remain one until the very end no matter what happens.


Maybe we are having a bit more friction than is necessary, and I'll take the full blame. I appreciate that you are an American, and a loyal American at that, not prone to violent jihad. I can understand that you would be rubbed the wrong way for being lumped in with less loyal Muslims. Sorry about that. It is going to happen though, not my fault, not yours, I can think of a few guys that I would pin the blame about that on. None of them are good guys. One in particular, I would love to push the plunger on the needle myself, but that's an assigned task, they don't take volunteers, I did ask though.



There is no such thing as a "violent jihadist"; just terrorists. Running jetliners into sky scrapers isn't jihad, its terrorism, its murder and its a sin.


There are most certainly violent jihadists. They may have a different view of their religion, while still calling it Islam, but when people are chanting Allahu Akbar while pulling triggers or flying planes into buildings, you have to realize that they do consider themselves Muslim, and think they are doing the work of Allah. That may be completely abhorrent to you, as much as some psycho "christian" preacher that believes he must be the one to deflower all the virgins in his congregation and have several "wives" younger than 15.

Some people use religion to comfort themselves and others. Some are inspired by religion to do great things that comfort multitudes of others. Some use holy religions in an evil way. A prerequisite to fixing a problem is admitting that there is a problem. I'm not going to post the several dozen pictures of Muslims behaving badly over cartoons and other radical behavior. But it exists, it is real, I have met them in person. I've talked with the poor 17 year old kid that was pretty much a geek, wasn't getting along well with the girls, had an abusive father, and was a younger son, of a less favored wife of his fathers. He was from Jordan, and he was recruited there to be a martyr. He was placed in a car bomb, and sent to look for American vehicles to ram it into. Ran out of gas on a bridge. He was blocking traffic, and panicked when an American convoy showed up to help move his car off the bridge, he jumped off. Funny thing about bridges in Baghdad, not all of them have water under them. 3 story fall, dislocated his elbow, and several other scrapes and bruises. This kid was no steely eyed killer, he was a misfit that was taken advantage of. I took good care of him, made sure that he was as close to pain free as possible, and treated him with kindness. He spilled the beans about his handlers. I didn't know it at the time, but his handlers were the same guys that were responsible for blowing up three friends I worked with. The Commander, Chief Nurse and NCOIC of the clinic I worked at in Iraq. I was walking into the Brigade TOC one day, and the boss stopped me and asked me to come into his office, he showed me a video clip on his laptop of a nondescript building, a streak of black came down on it, there was an initial explosion, and several LARGE secondary explosions. He told me those were they same guys responsible for hurting my buddy's, and that the intel the kid I took care of led them straight to the real steely eyed killers. Gotta admit, I still smile at the memory of that place going up like that, without an ounce of hate in my heart. They got us, we got them back better. It's just a contest with big stakes. I have absolutely no hard feelings toward other Muslims over that, it was a professional matter, and we had better toys.

It is an absolute fact that there are many people out there that consider themselves jihadists, and violence is their chosen form of expression. It's not necessary for other Muslims to understand, it's just a sad fact. Not all Muslims are violent jihadists, but an awful lot of violent jihadists tend to be Muslim.


Thanks, but we all need the luck; we're in this all together as Americans.

Glad to hear that. Guess the only advice I can give is probably completely unnecessary, but I'll say it anyway. Keep your head on a swivel, watch for signs of bad behavior around you, and report it.

Be good, Be safe.

Akil8290
06-15-2012, 19:05
I really hate to be a book by it's cover guy, but what I meant is olive skinned, but not Hispanic in appearance.

In that case, yes.

I have many close colleagues that are Muslim from several different countries, including India, Pakistan, and Lebanon, and that is just in my immediate section. All great guys, and they know that I've been to the middle east three times. We've talked. We are comfortable enough around each other discussing things like this, enough that the two of the three that were here on 5Nov09 thought enough to express condolences for the friend that I lost that day. One of the Doctors, from Pakistan was intensely pissed that idiot's like this were going to screw up things for him and his kids. He was also clean cut, but said he could always feel all eyes on him when he was in a restaurant or boarding a plane. He does have a very slight accent. He's also one of the smartest guys I know, and has saved more lives than I can count easily. He is a good guy.



Maybe we are having a bit more friction than is necessary, and I'll take the full blame. I appreciate that you are an American, and a loyal American at that, not prone to violent jihad. I can understand that you would be rubbed the wrong way for being lumped in with less loyal Muslims. Sorry about that. It is going to happen though, not my fault, not yours, I can think of a few guys that I would pin the blame about that on. None of them are good guys. One in particular, I would love to push the plunger on the needle myself, but that's an assigned task, they don't take volunteers, I did ask though.

It's o-kay, I appreciate your kind words and you're right: its neither of out faults.




There are most certainly violent jihadists. They may have a different view of their religion, while still calling it Islam, but when people are chanting Allahu Akbar while pulling triggers or flying planes into buildings, you have to realize that they do consider themselves Muslim, and think they are doing the work of Allah. That may be completely abhorrent to you, as much as some psycho "christian" preacher that believes he must be the one to deflower all the virgins in his congregation and have several "wives" younger than 15.

Some people use religion to comfort themselves and others. Some are inspired by religion to do great things that comfort multitudes of others. Some use holy religions in an evil way. A prerequisite to fixing a problem is admitting that there is a problem. I'm not going to post the several dozen pictures of Muslims behaving badly over cartoons and other radical behavior. But it exists, it is real, I have met them in person. I've talked with the poor 17 year old kid that was pretty much a geek, wasn't getting along well with the girls, had an abusive father, and was a younger son, of a less favored wife of his fathers. He was from Jordan, and he was recruited there to be a martyr. He was placed in a car bomb, and sent to look for American vehicles to ram it into. Ran out of gas on a bridge. He was blocking traffic, and panicked when an American convoy showed up to help move his car off the bridge, he jumped off. Funny thing about bridges in Baghdad, not all of them have water under them. 3 story fall, dislocated his elbow, and several other scrapes and bruises. This kid was no steely eyed killer, he was a misfit that was taken advantage of. I took good care of him, made sure that he was as close to pain free as possible, and treated him with kindness. He spilled the beans about his handlers. I didn't know it at the time, but his handlers were the same guys that were responsible for blowing up three friends I worked with. The Commander, Chief Nurse and NCOIC of the clinic I worked at in Iraq. I was walking into the Brigade TOC one day, and the boss stopped me and asked me to come into his office, he showed me a video clip on his laptop of a nondescript building, a streak of black came down on it, there was an initial explosion, and several LARGE secondary explosions. He told me those were they same guys responsible for hurting my buddy's, and that the intel the kid I took care of led them straight to the real steely eyed killers. Gotta admit, I still smile at the memory of that place going up like that, without an ounce of hate in my heart. They got us, we got them back better. It's just a contest with big stakes. I have absolutely no hard feelings toward other Muslims over that, it was a professional matter, and we had better toys.

You're a good man for that, Doc; to take care of that kid and not harbor hate in your heart.

It is an absolute fact that there are many people out there that consider themselves jihadists, and violence is their chosen form of expression. It's not necessary for other Muslims to understand, it's just a sad fact. Not all Muslims are violent jihadists, but an awful lot of violent jihadists tend to be Muslim.



Glad to hear that. Guess the only advice I can give is probably completely unnecessary, but I'll say it anyway. Keep your head on a swivel, watch for signs of bad behavior around you, and report it.

Be good, Be safe.

You, too, Doc. :wavey:

Akil8290
06-15-2012, 19:06
Actually, it was an honest question. You know how text sometimes doesn't reveal the true message. Read plainly, it sounded bad, so I asked. Glad to hear that is not what you meant. No hard feelings. :wavey:

No hard feelings, Doc.:wavey:

Norske
06-18-2012, 15:10
IS a religion a "religion" simply because it itself says that it is a religion?

If you are not an adherent of that particular religion, and do not believe that their assertion of religious status is valid, why are you required to "respect" their so-calle religion?

To my way of thinking, in order to earn respect, one must first show respect to others. Respect has to be a two-way street.

Islam does not respect other religions or governmental systems.

Yet Islam demands to be respected by those who do not agree with its tenets.

Islam does not respect me.

I simply see no reason to respect it.

Again, our best weapon in the War of Islam versus all other forms of religion and secular government is to simply stop recognizing it as a religion

Stop granting it all the immunities and priviledges inherent in recognized religious status.

Redefine Islam as what it in fact is; a Hostile Theocratic Governmental system that is opposed to the continuation of all other forms of Government and Religion.

Redefine it from "Religion" to "Hostile Political Movement".

And then start treating it under the same rules that we treat Neo-Nazis, Skin Heads, the Aryan Nations, Communists, the KKK, and so on.

Those groups are so stiff with FBI informers that they cannot blow their noses without a report going up the chain in the Hoover Building.

Much less blow up a building. The occasional Oklahoma City aside.

Same thing here. Declare Islam to be a hostile political movement.

Then start sending FBI infiltrators into those small closed rooms where Jihadis are recruited and indoctrinated. Wiretaps. Bugs. No secrecy.

Then start sending offending Jihadi teachers to prison where they belong.

The skyscraper that does not have an airliner plow into it might be the one you are in!